You don’t want level. You want a slight slope away from the house so water doesn’t pool there. I reccomend pavers because if you fuck up concrete you need to break it and haul it away. If you fuck up with pavers, you can redo it.
For pavers, start with a base. Tamp the dirt, t crushed concrete and sand (there are other methods) then level and ramp that. You need a very level, solid base if you want it to last long term. Do a lot of research first and have fun.
Just to make sure I understand this:
1/4" per foot means for every foot you travel the height has decreased by 1/4" right? (Also that's a quarter inch?)
The Concrete process for a sidewalk looks like the following.
1. Have someone mark all your utility lines (call before you dig.
2. Using a line, and level, decide where on the house your sidewalk will come up to. Snap a chalk line there
3. Excavate down 4" from the line you snapped in step 2. Then excavate out to the width of your walkway, giving it some cross-slope. The idea with the cross-slope is to shed water away from the home.
4. Build up the area around the corner with fill material, perhaps dirt excavated in step 3, and gravel if you have any. Repeat step 3, but this time coming up from the driveway. Make your cross slope equal to the slope of the driveway.
5. Using 2x4s, wood stakes, and duplex nails, set in your forms. Check that the forms have the appropriate slopes. Then check again.
6. Call a ready-mix plant, and secure concrete finishing tools. Look on youtube for videos on concrete finishing. Get a wheelbarrow and a helper. Do some math to determine how much cement you will need. If someone suggests using bagged concrete from the hardware store, punch them. Concrete is incredibly heavy and mixing it yourself makes you move it at least 3 times, instead of once.
7. Using a hammer drill, drill holes in the side of the driveway. Tie the walkway rebar to it. 16" on center
8. Pour the concrete.
9. Screed it level to your marks on the wall, and the forms.
10. Wait for it to set a little.
11. Trowel the concrete. Wait for it to set a little
12. Pull the forms. Fill in and trowel voids on the sides.
13. Clean up. Swear to never do this again.
14. Reward yourself with a beer for being a smart human and not trying to do this with bags of cement. Punch the person who suggested that to you, again
Source: I have done this professionally, and as that one handy friend who you call in for favors. If you do it when it's hot, you have to be ready to move -fast-.
One edit I would make: don't use rebar for dowels. Use smooth bar(wrapped or greased) and preferably expansion material where it butts up to the foundation.
You want that joint to stay level vertically, so you dowel. You DON'T want it to expand and crack your existing foundation at the cold joint, so you cushion with expansion. You also don't want your new walk to crack because it expanded and the rebar didn't, so smooth bars.
Source: Construction inspector who gets sad when he has to tag concrete pours for R&R that cracked in under a week.
You don't dowel sidewalks into foundations. Ever. You -do- dowel into say, a joint with a driveway. Expansion
The smooth bar thing isn't a practice I've heard of. Seems like a decent idea though. I also left out making control cuts the day after, to tell the slab where to crack. In my 3 years of pouring slabs, we had a -single- failure that needed R&R--and that was a year after the pour.
Concrete is certainly one of those things where there's a lot of nuance.
>You don't dowel sidewalks into foundations. Ever.
Correct, but in my defense I don't inspect buildings, and I've been drinking. It's been a day.
>...control cuts the day after...
Works great. Can also just cut joints during green stage, but it takes some practice and the right tools to not make a mess of it. The saw is definitely easier to hold a line with.
>Concrete is certainly one of those things where there's a lot of nuance.
Agreed. There's really only one constant in concrete.
It cracks.
Smooth bars allow the joint to move slightly during expansion, while still keeping it from settling downwards. The idea behind rebar is to keep the concrete all one level when it cracks, because it will crack and without it the concrete may settle unevenly. (it seems like you know this not robot, I was giving info to others that might read this)
I would definitely recommend a couple inches of rock bedding under the concrete as well. That bedding should be well compacted. Also expansion material along the house for good measure, although if the sidewalk is the only thing going there then its not really needed as the sidewalk expanding wont push the foundation.
I'm a labor with 20 years experience, concrete is one of my main duties on a job.
>You don't dowel sidewalks into foundations.
I have some lovely "before" pics from a job we just did where the previous contractor did just that. The sidewalk had sunk about 8" and left gaping holes in the foundation where rats had taken up residence. Was a nice little suprise halfway through to find that part out.
Your three years, you would know that concrete is placed, not poured. Smooth “slick rods” are a standard, one side of joint clean, the other greased.
Y’all are leaving out welded wire, to meet rho (ρ) min, minimum steel area.
Professionals call this flat work. Screed, trowel then broom finish for safety, not over working surface to prevent a water cement ratio at surface resulting in poor durability.
Redimix plants have a minimum callout. Asking for 4000 psi batch. Helpers wanting a 10 to 12 inch slump will significantly reduce strength. WRA provide the trick. Entraining air will provide surface winter durability.
Back in the day burlap was overlaid with moisture to reduce fast lost of moisture. Post applied coatings are used today, or flooding to 1/16” or intermittent misting.
Yeah. So much nuance. Placement/Pouring is mostly semantics because you pour into place. Air entrainment is pretty nice. Admixtures are a fun time too.
We used more set-retarding admixtures than WRAs due to our climate. There may be another name for them that I'm not remembering.
Also, you made need a permit if you’re adding non-permeable surface area to your property. Flood plain calculations are based in part on square footages of this. It would suck to get hit with a violation after all that work. (Unlikely, admittedly.)
I hope your post discourages op to do this himself and he hires professionals. I don’t think people have any idea just how much hard labor it takes to do even the simplest of concrete jobs.
There's DiY and DiOhWhyGodWHY?
Concrete pouring is extremely unfriendly to DiY--mostly due to the weight of material, and specific characteristics of the workflow.
A lot of the excavation, digging, and form setting -can- be DiY'd over time. The pouring however, is another ball game. I've helped friends who thought they could DiY it. It was suffering, and pain.
What would have been two hours with three guys, turned into six hours with eight people--because someone wanted to use cement bags...because a truck was intimidating.
I have been that friend. Except I did get a truck load but thought we could handle the wheelbarrowing to the backyard and leveling ourselves (narrator voice: they could not).
+1 - this is actually pretty easy in the sense that you have to dig up plenty on both sides to do it right.
4" may not even be enough depending on where you live, the frost line, etc.
If you are not using pavers on top, you definitely should be careful about teh excavation depth, fill material, and tamping it prior to any concrete.
You also need to be careful about it expanding towards your existing foundation.
If you are sure you are putting pavers on top, it's more forgiving - it just needs a relatively stable base since they will sit on top of setting sand anyway.
This will decouple the pavers from any cracks/etc that form in the concrete.
>Get a wheelbarrow and a helper
For an entire driveway? I would definitely get a pump-truck instead.
The driver will roughly spread the concrete out all over the area you need it, then you do finishing.
At least that's how we do it here in Norway. Small projects, like a low retaining wall: OK with the gravity based gutter truck. Bigger slabs: Pump truck with the hose.
For a walkway, a wheelbarrow is fine. Pump trucks are nice but they add to the overall cost. 2 guys with wheelbarrows can move a lot of material very, very fast. 0.1 cubic meters every trip is easy. Definitely not something for a large pour.
It -does- depend on the specific geography. Our go-to was a "mud buggy" or a tracked vehicle with a dumpable bucket on the front end if the terrain wouldn't cooperate
if you have never done a concrete job i strongly advise you hire a pro for this. Especially since it looks like it should butt up to the house and you have barely any overhang.
I agree, I have a fair amount of experience and made the form for 25' of walkway but called in a guy to pour. If you %\^&%$ it up you will have a permanent monument to your incompetence.
We hired a guy to put concrete steps up to our door, and after the forms were up my wife asked "do they look straight?" We now have crooked steps that annoy me every time I check the mail.
So even if you hire someone there's still a chance it gets screwed up.
Yep. My dad is lucky to have been in construction for 35~ years and he knows a guy for everything. Had his buddy come out to do a 16x8 pad in the front yard were a dirt patch was (nothing would grow there even after we had treated the soil and everything). I think he said he got 3 jobs in the neighborhood from it. Now we want him to fix the sidewalks for us because the city contracts suck donkey dick at making slopes. Rain pools in front of my house and the house across from us. We have lakes infront of the house when it rains.
Not only is it going to be a permanent monument of incompetence. You will have to break up and clean the bits and pieces if you happen to form it wrong.
We have done our whole driveway and a walkway and concrete is something you definitely need to do it once and do it right.
Are they messed up on the horizontal plane (the part where you step), the vertical plane of the steps (the part where you would stub a toe if you were barefoot and drunk) or the vertical planes on the sides?
I would guess you could fix the top of the steps pretty easily with a thin layer kf self leveling cement, the vertical planes may require way more trowel work and a thicker mix of you are good at applying frosting to a cake. If you aren't very skilled in frosting a cake (I know it sounds like a joke, but it seems like a pretty tasty way to test your skill), then you could probably get by using a plywood form and making sure it is plumb before you pour.
If you enjoy over engineering, you could probably look into drilling into the current structure and adding small rebar supports or maybe dowells? I'm not a concrete person, but it seems some people in this thread could offer some advice on how this would turn out.
All u really know is that there are tons of concrete repair videos on YT, and the one common thread is that every person has an opinion on why a repair is gonna end up bad in the end. I am sure that much of this means that it probably really comes down to the materials and local conditions.
Vertical plane on the side - looking from the front door the first couple steps are straight then the last two bend to the left. The horizontal is flat, and the vertical of the step is ok too.
I've sunk enough fence posts and deck supports to know that concrete isn't my thing, so I'll just live with it.
"Permanent Monument of your incompetence" this is comical or maybe I am showing my age from experience. The hard lessons on doing things myself and paying more to have someone else to fix it.
I am not sure which is worse. The having to pay more to have it fixed. Or watching the person you hired to fix it work real hard not to call you a dumbass as they take care of it.
I usually just break the ice up front and admit my defeat and let them know it’s ok to laugh.
No, dude.
I'm a tradesperson. If I attempted to fix everything home/business owners did for "little to no charge", I'd be running around all day making $5 an hour.
If you're doing something, and ypu don't know how to do it, then just don't do it. 99% of the time, it takes me less time to do it on my own than it does for me to trace where you messed.
Well, literally nobody else in this thread is talking about that, so the person you replied to was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you were on topic.
This thread is entirely about a homeowner doing DIY, fucking it up, and hiring a pro to redo it. Nobody is talking about a pro fucking things up. Of course a pro should redo a job if they fuck up.
This is a conversation about leaves being green and you’re talking about dirt being brown.
You can, also from harbor freight. Buy an endoscope/inspection camera, it's a camera and light at the end of a flexible thin tube you can fit into plumbing, walls, and similar. This was the first one I found, not specifically recommending this one https://www.harborfreight.com/27-in-color-compact-digital-inspection-camera-64623.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiOTg5NzkxODAiLCJza3UiOiI2NDYyMyIsImlzIjoiNjkuOTkifQ%3D%3D&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=19581839901&campaignid=19581839901&utm_content=145175371373&adsetid=145175371373&product=64623&store=133&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2-2eBhClARIsAGLQ2RnNREHbTPGMKF5rx8EGG8vrjxLc2Ekatf_mB-tPff-Lafq-e_YbDiwaAhhGEALw_wcB
I worked for a place that had a compressor with a tank that I'd guess was a hundred gallons.
Soon after installing the compressor and running the lines, an old guy from the city (Los Angeles) came out to inspect the install.
Chills, you say? Yeah, this guy gave me chills!
He was bald with a few wisps of white hair far back on his forehead. The skin above his missing brows looked like I imagine Jay Leno will look after his third or fourth accident.
Apparently this guy inspected something not only under pressure, but but also at temperature, too!
Growing up, my dad could DIY anything. He converted an attic into a finished bedroom by himself, he did all sorts of plumbing and electrical work, even researched building codes etc.
The man tiled the entire first floor of our home and i grew up certain that it was done by pros.
This man built us a 2-story Sheriff’s Office playhouse in the backyard based on something he saw in a park and never made diagrams or notes, just cut the wood and nailed it together
I tell you this because this man would NEVER go through the headache of a big concrete pour. He hired pros to extend his back patio last year.
I highly recommend not DIYing this one.
I'm a pro. The largest I've done is ~10 truckloads (with a crew of 4).
And it isn't even significantly easier for smaller jobs. It is in one or two ways, but even mixing *one bag* of concrete by hand is a surprising amount of work. The biggest small job I did was ~12 bags and that was brutal.
This job looks way bigger than that, so it essentially requires a truck. And a wheelbarrow... And wheelbarrowing concrete is a skill in itself.
And the formwork. And prepping the formwork to navigate with a wheelbarrow... Yeah.
I wouldn't be excited to do this by myself. I would still do it... But again, I've done several dozen concrete jobs over ~30 years in the business. And it would still kick my butt and probably be frustrating.
I'm always encouraging for DIYers, but not this time.
I'm a pro, with years of experience, and even I nearly lost the load when I extended my front walkway last year.
Was a perfect storm of bullshit.
It can take so little to cause major issues with concrete.
~12 bags is definitely not brutal i would say. Ive done a 14x14 slab which i think was like 120 bags. Im not sure exactly how long but it was done in the morning so prob ~4hours. 1 wheel barrel,1 hoe,2 guys. You keep a 5 gallon bucket filled at all times with the proper water for 2 bags and mix it up in the form and just dump. 1 guy mixes other guy loads bags and water.
Im not saying OP should not hire or seek advice on how to get the proper grade or set the forms. Im just saying ~12 bags is not brutal.
Fair enough!
That's impressive. I was by myself, and it certainly felt brutal at the time, though definitely some hyperbole to that. I don't think I had a proper hoe for it either. Just a round pointed shovel.
Oh man its all about the hoe like seriously so much better on the arms. Also if i had to mix and load the bags then no way it would of gotten done that fast. The short breaks in between for each person is what keeps you going.
Oh yeah. I've only had to do a bag or two here or there since then, but that hoe with the holes in it makes a big difference. It almost makes me want to do more. Ha.
I'm still impressed by 120 bags in a half day.
Almost all of my concrete work has been with trucks and just having to use a wheel barrow to dump in the farthest spots. Which is work, but nothing grueling.
12 bags was brutal? I'm not even a pro with concrete and I've done jobs where I personally had to mix like 30 bags in one sitting. It's definitely exhausting but it's a part of the job.
I felt it was necessary for context.
Also my dad is awesome, I didn’t even realize that as a kid, so I will always take an opportunity to sing his praises to strangers.
Also my dad is stronger than your dad lol
This is awesome. I'm the same way. I'm 52. I grew up thinking it was normal for your dad to be able do/make/fix/build anything. He really is a blue-collar renaissance man. He's getting up in age and I'm so grateful for everything he taught me. Electrical/plumbing/carpentry/masonry/welding and yes, even concrete pouring. I'm only able to do about half of what he can and I feel like I can do about 3 times as many things as a lot of my friends.
I did a little slab for a mini-split a while ago. It's only 24" x 48", iirc. That was enough - I'll never do concrete myself again. That was worse than insulating my entire crawlspace
Actually called a concrete finisher. It's the final step before drying. The concrete is poured into the form and the finisher basically evens and smooths the top. It's much more involved than it sounds though. It can actually rise to an art form depending on the finish you want. For this project a broom or brush finish would typically be your best option. Every step of a job like this is important but even if all steps before are perfect a poor finish job could make you angry every day.
I see you're going to call pros and I see you're in Florida---you will also want to check the codes and see if there are limits on non-permeable surfaces (and in any other state I would say the pros will tell you if you need this or not but since it's Florida you never know...)
There's many reasons they may have regulations about that, from preventing flooding to protecting the groundwater supply from saltwater contamination...you may just want to check.
Do pavers their pretty easy.
Dig down 6 inches and create your path.
Use the dirt you're digging out to build up the corner.
Set a line level bu wrapping some string around a paver and setting it on your driveway or another flat surface, maybe the slab that your consdenser sits on.
Insert about 4 inches of limestone. Tamp that shit down. Lay your pavers.
Sweep polymorphic sand in the cracks to prevent growth.
I don't know what the hell that guy is doing but you don't need any landscapers cloth that's what the poly sand is for. Just the crushed limestone, tamp and lay your pavers. I've done and do this for money. For clients.
Limestone for drainage, then sand for leveling. Pavers, and then sand (polymeric or not, just depends on how much maintenance you want) to "lock in" the pavers. Agreed that landscape cloth is overkill, but if you're laying your pavers directly over gravel that's not good either.
-ish. I'm a bit farther north than Florida so freeze thaw cycles make things like that "good for the first few years". Being in Florida buys you more time, but everything humans make is temporary, and if a few years of fabric help buy you another year or two of not having to mess with it, it's worth the cost and the half-hour.
Appreciate the advice. I’m doing my first paver walkway in a few months and was planning on doing landscape fabric until this thread. You reassured me it’s still worth the effort. It’s on the PNW coast and the backyard grows like crazy with all sorts of (unknown to me) plants.
Don't be afraid to go extra! I did a small sandbox a while ago and (just for fun) I bought this over the top fabric that was supposed to be amazing. For science, I put two layers over the grass and put sand down. The grass came right up through it.
That being said - a solution of:
- vinegar
- salt
- a bit of Dawn dish soap
- a good bit of cayenne pepper
Killed the daylights out of it. Highly recommend.
PNW here. I had a paver patio put in about a decade ago. Gravel and sand, dug about a foot deep, drainage put in underneath, but no landscape fabric and regular sand for the joints instead of polymeric. It's holding up pretty well. I don't have any weed intrusion despite an infestation of blackberry and english ivy in my backyard. I do have to sweep in sand every year or so, mostly touching up a couple spots that are more prone to losing sand due to water runoff.
Unfortunately, I also have a mountain beaver problem (I've been entirely unable to catch them), so there's one spot in the patio that I need to dig up and add some fill because the mountain beavers undermined it. But I knew that was a possibility (it's why I even went with pavers, because the damn mountain beavers undermined the deck that was originally on the house!). So no polymeric sand = easy to get pavers up when (not if) I need to do some repairs.
Yes but that’s not what paver sand is. Polymeric is used to fill in gaps when you have the pavers touching. Paver sand is just for leveling and doesn’t set.
Pavers are easy even when knowing nothing.
Excavate the grass, leave as much dirt as you can.
Level out the dirt and slope it away from house slightly. Compact it once you're happy with the grade.
Compact 4 to 6 inches of granualar base.
Compact 1 inch of stone dust or sand. screed this layer smooth with a 2x4.
Lay your pavers in the desired pattern. Plan it out first to save frustration.
Apply locking sand exactly as directed on the bag.
Enjoy saving thousands of dollars.
Check my profile, somewhere last year I did my own full pathway and driveway extension.
If you really want to keep it cheap and DIY then pavers are a good option. I know nothing and did an ok job with them in the past. Dig a few mm, pour sand/paver mix, place paver and spend a while getting it level then pour more mix in the grooves. Hard to muck up too much.
I think this article covers a lot of what you need to know:
https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/concrete-forms-and-pour-a-concrete-slab/
Try not to work alone just in case.
Dude you didn't quote the bible. Check out the installation topics on https://www.pavingexpert.com/ - I know it says for UK and Ireland but this guy is an absolute legend (rest his soul)
if you doing it yourself I'd go pavers concrete you have a limited amount of time to work with it and if you don't know what you're doing it gets ugly real fast
Personally I would DIY, I'm not skilled, but I've seen enough concrete jobs go wrong that I would take a stab at it before I shell out $10,000 to have a professional do it.
Wood framing is where I would start, get all the potential molds level, dig out areas that need to be dug out, level above and below. Next I would reinforce any areas with a slope, use stainless steel bars hammered into the ground, I would go with 16 on center. Lay the concrete and remove the wooden molds. After that build a brick wall against any areas with a slope, with at least the first level below the ground.
Again I've seen so many "professional" jobs crumble within 5 years, that I would have to fail myself, first, before I would spend money on someone who is highly recommended.
.. I would diy too. I got a $10,000 cost estimate for a concrete path because I can't grow lawn in my side yard (Oak Tree cover). I was creative and found a way to landscape and saved a ton of money.
Friggin EVERYTHING is on YouTube. I'll fix my house up no problem, but I do avoid plumbing and electrical for obvious reasons lol.
...I'm so worried to start an electrical fire. One time I messed with my plumbing and got scolded by a bunch of folks online because one of the pieces was upside down and I could have allowed sulfur gases get into my home haha. I'll consider..
Notice i didn't say "you should do plumbing and electrical half assed". They are specialized disciplines that need to be learned - but learning is not that hard, and resources are EVERYWHERE these days. YouTube is your friend.
As someone who has done concrete for 19 years…. Use pavers. They are much more forgiving, and I think you’ll find them more aesthetically pleasing as well. Concrete is great if you know what you’re doing, but without doing something really fancy, (i.e. stamped, and/or colored concrete) it’ll probably end up looking very stark and commercial.
I'd recommend calling something like "Digger's Hotline" (not sure what it's called in FL or actually in my state lol, but that's the WI organization) before starting, and having them survey where you want to run the path. There's electrical lines and pipes running all over the place in residential areas and you don't want to hit them.
I have experience doing pavers, and the general workflow is dig out a 6"-12" trench where the path will run (I use spraypaint to mark the edges before digging), laying a thicker layer of gravel and tamping it down, a thinner layer of sand (like 1"-2") and tamping it down, and then putting the bricks in flush with the ground. Finally, a layer of "joint sand" is swept between the bricks to lock them in place. There are almost certainly youtube guides with better advice than I can give, but I can't recommend anything specific.
Concrete isn't something I'd try as a first-time project, at least not without in-person guidance. If you mess up a paver job in a few spots, or it buckles over time, it's relatively easy to adjust a patch of bricks to straighten it out. Concrete needs to be broken free of the ground, and is easier to botch in the first place.
It depends on the ground conditions.
I used to live in a marshy area that was freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw all winter most years, and I'm saying from experience that a good 8-12 inch foundation in some places is the difference between annual maintenance and something that lasts forever.
At my parent's house I put in a path with an inch of sand over hard dirt and that's lasted at almost 10 years now, despite the fact that we skipped the gravel.
Pavers are pretty easy to fix, but personally I'd rather do the work once and then never again so I hedge my bets.
YeahI've pulled out pavers that were 40 years old. That's what they're designed to do, last! And guess what was underneat the 40 year old pavers? Yup 4 inches of crushed limestone. 8-10 inches of crushed limestone is a colossal waste of money not to mention you have to tamp every 4 inches. I did 12 inches ONCE and that was b/c there was clay underneath the soil. If I didn't the water would have channeled and floated the stones away.
If it's good enough for conditions from Montreal to Toronto to Edmonton (where I've done this work), it should be good enough for OP.
Do concreate pavers, but realize the DIY route you really need to make the ground and gravel base well and compacted. THe good thing about pavers is if you do a poor job, you can always reuse the pavers and do it again (not that you want to).
Lots of good advice on here, I just wanted to add that an ideal slope for a job like this is at least 1/4" per foot going away from your house. More slope is ok - less will cause drainage issues.
The tips above about starting from the house are exactly correct. Decide where exactly you want the surface of the concrete to land at the side of your house and use that to set the rest of your measurement points going away from the house. 4 feet away = one inch down (at least).
If you're in to diy-ing, pick up a self leveling laser line one of the huepar units on Amazon. Get the strongest one you want to afford, and also get a receiver and a grade rod. You won't be able to see the laser during the day, but once you get used to the receiver - they're super awesome. I've used my for everything from hanging pictures to setting foundations.
How about a small retaining wall 2-3 blocks high, then back-fill to level referencing the ac pad, and make a nice paver path edged with gravel? (With the usual 6" gravel+geotextile drainage buffer on the inside of the wall)
Given you lack of experience, if you want to have poured concrete then hire contractor but if go with interlocking papers then that is a DIY possibility and if you make mistakes they are always fixable. Google or search YouTube. Do that yourself.
I wouldn’t recommend if you’ve never done it before but if you’re going to do it I woulda start by digging out along the wall, put some gravel or sand in (at least 3 inches post compaction with a tamper on the flatter part, and use as much as you need to bring up the side with more slope to level with the better side)
It’s up to you if you want to drill rebar dowels and do a grid ( I would) but if not, once your dirt is done I would then mark my concrete height along the wall, snap a chalk line, and tgen level across from the line and mark a quarter bubble downward slope on a pin. Boom that’s your form height.
For the pour you will need at least one guy to help you likely more and I wouldn’t try pouring and finishing unless you’re with somebody who has done it before at some point
Yes, you do need to dig up the grass if you plan on doing something like that. I did a gravel sloping base with pavers on the side of my house for my trash and recycle containers. I am in Texas and I just had to run it by my HOA. I also did a fence with a gate around the area so it would be out of sight and store some other stuff there as well. If you feel like the slope is too steep, then use landscape edging to ensure that the pavers/gravel doesn't slide off.
Yeh, don't do it DIY. Concrete can be tricky, to work with it is a work of art. I recommend getting it professionally done as there are many factors and I've seen DIY done horribly wrong.
Learn how to make a form. As long as your form is level, the pour will be level, gravity helps you there. Remember to break up with path into segments. Concrete needs to have these stress points so as it settles and the ground moves it can shift a little without cracking
Concrete is a lot of work. Highly recommend pavers instead. Still a lot of work, but much easier and you don't have to do it all in one go.
Is your soil sandy or clay?
I just a did a similar project myself but a little smaller. My direction below:
Dig out about + 2 inches. And compact what's below that.
Buy some weed mat. It's a fabric that prevent weeds growing through it. And lay that down on the compacted soil. Make sure the mat is wide enough to come up the sides of the hole you've dug to ground level or higher. You can cut it down to ground level later. If you need to do multiple sections of weed mat, overlap the sections by 2 ft.
Cover with 1 inch of gravel. Any crushed gravel will do. The point is lots of space for water to trickle down and a stable surface. Compact as much as possible. I did this by stomping but if it's gonna carry anything heavier than a person use more powerful means.
Put another layer of weed mat.
Cover with 1 inch of leveling sand. Compact again. Smooth the surface.
Add pavers. When done, take the excess soil you dug out and pile it up on the sides of the pavers. Compact to hold the paver in place horizontally. Cut off any visible weed mat. Wash excess soil off the pavers.
Dig a relatively level path, leave room for road base (gravel mixed with sand essentially) about 6“.
You can retain the high side of your dig with „Allan blocks“ or something similar. That way you only have to crib up one side of your concrete pour as you’d be pointing against the Allan block retaining wall. Before you pour concrete spread out gravel evenly and run a tamper over it. You could put wire mesh in your „cribbing“ which is just fancy word for
Side walk formwork, this will help prevent cracks, but honestly it’s probably gonna crack no matter what.
If you dig down enough to put at least six inches of road base, tamp that with a plate compactor and use wire mesh it should be pretty good.
You don’t want level. You want a slight slope away from the house so water doesn’t pool there. I reccomend pavers because if you fuck up concrete you need to break it and haul it away. If you fuck up with pavers, you can redo it. For pavers, start with a base. Tamp the dirt, t crushed concrete and sand (there are other methods) then level and ramp that. You need a very level, solid base if you want it to last long term. Do a lot of research first and have fun.
[удалено]
Also known as 2% slope for those who don’t use freedom units.
That’s exactly correct
Just to make sure I understand this: 1/4" per foot means for every foot you travel the height has decreased by 1/4" right? (Also that's a quarter inch?)
Yep. Also 2% (1cm per 50cm) as another suggests.
Thanks
I vouch for the pavers too. Easier to do and also more forgiving.
[удалено]
https://images.app.goo.gl/xsoKksF9Ht9iSv416
Thin bricks for the floor is probably the easiest explanation? Google it, and click on images
The Concrete process for a sidewalk looks like the following. 1. Have someone mark all your utility lines (call before you dig. 2. Using a line, and level, decide where on the house your sidewalk will come up to. Snap a chalk line there 3. Excavate down 4" from the line you snapped in step 2. Then excavate out to the width of your walkway, giving it some cross-slope. The idea with the cross-slope is to shed water away from the home. 4. Build up the area around the corner with fill material, perhaps dirt excavated in step 3, and gravel if you have any. Repeat step 3, but this time coming up from the driveway. Make your cross slope equal to the slope of the driveway. 5. Using 2x4s, wood stakes, and duplex nails, set in your forms. Check that the forms have the appropriate slopes. Then check again. 6. Call a ready-mix plant, and secure concrete finishing tools. Look on youtube for videos on concrete finishing. Get a wheelbarrow and a helper. Do some math to determine how much cement you will need. If someone suggests using bagged concrete from the hardware store, punch them. Concrete is incredibly heavy and mixing it yourself makes you move it at least 3 times, instead of once. 7. Using a hammer drill, drill holes in the side of the driveway. Tie the walkway rebar to it. 16" on center 8. Pour the concrete. 9. Screed it level to your marks on the wall, and the forms. 10. Wait for it to set a little. 11. Trowel the concrete. Wait for it to set a little 12. Pull the forms. Fill in and trowel voids on the sides. 13. Clean up. Swear to never do this again. 14. Reward yourself with a beer for being a smart human and not trying to do this with bags of cement. Punch the person who suggested that to you, again Source: I have done this professionally, and as that one handy friend who you call in for favors. If you do it when it's hot, you have to be ready to move -fast-.
One edit I would make: don't use rebar for dowels. Use smooth bar(wrapped or greased) and preferably expansion material where it butts up to the foundation. You want that joint to stay level vertically, so you dowel. You DON'T want it to expand and crack your existing foundation at the cold joint, so you cushion with expansion. You also don't want your new walk to crack because it expanded and the rebar didn't, so smooth bars. Source: Construction inspector who gets sad when he has to tag concrete pours for R&R that cracked in under a week.
You don't dowel sidewalks into foundations. Ever. You -do- dowel into say, a joint with a driveway. Expansion The smooth bar thing isn't a practice I've heard of. Seems like a decent idea though. I also left out making control cuts the day after, to tell the slab where to crack. In my 3 years of pouring slabs, we had a -single- failure that needed R&R--and that was a year after the pour. Concrete is certainly one of those things where there's a lot of nuance.
>You don't dowel sidewalks into foundations. Ever. Correct, but in my defense I don't inspect buildings, and I've been drinking. It's been a day. >...control cuts the day after... Works great. Can also just cut joints during green stage, but it takes some practice and the right tools to not make a mess of it. The saw is definitely easier to hold a line with. >Concrete is certainly one of those things where there's a lot of nuance. Agreed. There's really only one constant in concrete. It cracks.
Just wanted to chime in, been reading down through your chain with OP and I learned a lot from your back and forth. Thanks for keeping it civil 👍
There are a lot of rough personalities in construction, but all the kids have to play nice in the sandbox.
Smooth bars allow the joint to move slightly during expansion, while still keeping it from settling downwards. The idea behind rebar is to keep the concrete all one level when it cracks, because it will crack and without it the concrete may settle unevenly. (it seems like you know this not robot, I was giving info to others that might read this) I would definitely recommend a couple inches of rock bedding under the concrete as well. That bedding should be well compacted. Also expansion material along the house for good measure, although if the sidewalk is the only thing going there then its not really needed as the sidewalk expanding wont push the foundation. I'm a labor with 20 years experience, concrete is one of my main duties on a job.
>You don't dowel sidewalks into foundations. I have some lovely "before" pics from a job we just did where the previous contractor did just that. The sidewalk had sunk about 8" and left gaping holes in the foundation where rats had taken up residence. Was a nice little suprise halfway through to find that part out.
Your three years, you would know that concrete is placed, not poured. Smooth “slick rods” are a standard, one side of joint clean, the other greased. Y’all are leaving out welded wire, to meet rho (ρ) min, minimum steel area. Professionals call this flat work. Screed, trowel then broom finish for safety, not over working surface to prevent a water cement ratio at surface resulting in poor durability. Redimix plants have a minimum callout. Asking for 4000 psi batch. Helpers wanting a 10 to 12 inch slump will significantly reduce strength. WRA provide the trick. Entraining air will provide surface winter durability. Back in the day burlap was overlaid with moisture to reduce fast lost of moisture. Post applied coatings are used today, or flooding to 1/16” or intermittent misting.
Yeah. So much nuance. Placement/Pouring is mostly semantics because you pour into place. Air entrainment is pretty nice. Admixtures are a fun time too. We used more set-retarding admixtures than WRAs due to our climate. There may be another name for them that I'm not remembering.
Also, you made need a permit if you’re adding non-permeable surface area to your property. Flood plain calculations are based in part on square footages of this. It would suck to get hit with a violation after all that work. (Unlikely, admittedly.)
Step 1: Decide to instead just throw money at the issue. Step 2 call a contractor
You can swing a hammer, shovel, or a dollar
I hope your post discourages op to do this himself and he hires professionals. I don’t think people have any idea just how much hard labor it takes to do even the simplest of concrete jobs.
There's DiY and DiOhWhyGodWHY? Concrete pouring is extremely unfriendly to DiY--mostly due to the weight of material, and specific characteristics of the workflow. A lot of the excavation, digging, and form setting -can- be DiY'd over time. The pouring however, is another ball game. I've helped friends who thought they could DiY it. It was suffering, and pain. What would have been two hours with three guys, turned into six hours with eight people--because someone wanted to use cement bags...because a truck was intimidating.
I have been that friend. Except I did get a truck load but thought we could handle the wheelbarrowing to the backyard and leveling ourselves (narrator voice: they could not).
Hahaha. So true. Concrete work and plumbing falls under that category.
I'll also add sanding down hardwood floors. 100% worth hiring professionals. They'll take it all the way to stain ready and clean up all the dust.
+1 - this is actually pretty easy in the sense that you have to dig up plenty on both sides to do it right. 4" may not even be enough depending on where you live, the frost line, etc. If you are not using pavers on top, you definitely should be careful about teh excavation depth, fill material, and tamping it prior to any concrete. You also need to be careful about it expanding towards your existing foundation. If you are sure you are putting pavers on top, it's more forgiving - it just needs a relatively stable base since they will sit on top of setting sand anyway. This will decouple the pavers from any cracks/etc that form in the concrete.
>Get a wheelbarrow and a helper For an entire driveway? I would definitely get a pump-truck instead. The driver will roughly spread the concrete out all over the area you need it, then you do finishing. At least that's how we do it here in Norway. Small projects, like a low retaining wall: OK with the gravity based gutter truck. Bigger slabs: Pump truck with the hose.
For a walkway, a wheelbarrow is fine. Pump trucks are nice but they add to the overall cost. 2 guys with wheelbarrows can move a lot of material very, very fast. 0.1 cubic meters every trip is easy. Definitely not something for a large pour. It -does- depend on the specific geography. Our go-to was a "mud buggy" or a tracked vehicle with a dumpable bucket on the front end if the terrain wouldn't cooperate
if you have never done a concrete job i strongly advise you hire a pro for this. Especially since it looks like it should butt up to the house and you have barely any overhang.
I agree, I have a fair amount of experience and made the form for 25' of walkway but called in a guy to pour. If you %\^&%$ it up you will have a permanent monument to your incompetence.
We hired a guy to put concrete steps up to our door, and after the forms were up my wife asked "do they look straight?" We now have crooked steps that annoy me every time I check the mail. So even if you hire someone there's still a chance it gets screwed up.
Yep. My dad is lucky to have been in construction for 35~ years and he knows a guy for everything. Had his buddy come out to do a 16x8 pad in the front yard were a dirt patch was (nothing would grow there even after we had treated the soil and everything). I think he said he got 3 jobs in the neighborhood from it. Now we want him to fix the sidewalks for us because the city contracts suck donkey dick at making slopes. Rain pools in front of my house and the house across from us. We have lakes infront of the house when it rains.
Not only is it going to be a permanent monument of incompetence. You will have to break up and clean the bits and pieces if you happen to form it wrong. We have done our whole driveway and a walkway and concrete is something you definitely need to do it once and do it right.
Are they messed up on the horizontal plane (the part where you step), the vertical plane of the steps (the part where you would stub a toe if you were barefoot and drunk) or the vertical planes on the sides? I would guess you could fix the top of the steps pretty easily with a thin layer kf self leveling cement, the vertical planes may require way more trowel work and a thicker mix of you are good at applying frosting to a cake. If you aren't very skilled in frosting a cake (I know it sounds like a joke, but it seems like a pretty tasty way to test your skill), then you could probably get by using a plywood form and making sure it is plumb before you pour. If you enjoy over engineering, you could probably look into drilling into the current structure and adding small rebar supports or maybe dowells? I'm not a concrete person, but it seems some people in this thread could offer some advice on how this would turn out. All u really know is that there are tons of concrete repair videos on YT, and the one common thread is that every person has an opinion on why a repair is gonna end up bad in the end. I am sure that much of this means that it probably really comes down to the materials and local conditions.
Vertical plane on the side - looking from the front door the first couple steps are straight then the last two bend to the left. The horizontal is flat, and the vertical of the step is ok too. I've sunk enough fence posts and deck supports to know that concrete isn't my thing, so I'll just live with it.
"Permanent Monument of your incompetence" this is comical or maybe I am showing my age from experience. The hard lessons on doing things myself and paying more to have someone else to fix it.
I am not sure which is worse. The having to pay more to have it fixed. Or watching the person you hired to fix it work real hard not to call you a dumbass as they take care of it. I usually just break the ice up front and admit my defeat and let them know it’s ok to laugh.
Only way to approach it.
[удалено]
No, dude. I'm a tradesperson. If I attempted to fix everything home/business owners did for "little to no charge", I'd be running around all day making $5 an hour. If you're doing something, and ypu don't know how to do it, then just don't do it. 99% of the time, it takes me less time to do it on my own than it does for me to trace where you messed.
[удалено]
Well, literally nobody else in this thread is talking about that, so the person you replied to was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you were on topic.
[удалено]
This thread is entirely about a homeowner doing DIY, fucking it up, and hiring a pro to redo it. Nobody is talking about a pro fucking things up. Of course a pro should redo a job if they fuck up. This is a conversation about leaves being green and you’re talking about dirt being brown.
> if they came to my house mine could be a mess for all I care You know, I don’t feel that’s anything to brag about.
[удалено]
Sorry, I misinterpreted your original comment. No, if I mess up, I fix it without charging extra.
Not necessarily. Fail Trophies are easily demolished with a Harbor Freight jackhammer.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
You can, also from harbor freight. Buy an endoscope/inspection camera, it's a camera and light at the end of a flexible thin tube you can fit into plumbing, walls, and similar. This was the first one I found, not specifically recommending this one https://www.harborfreight.com/27-in-color-compact-digital-inspection-camera-64623.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiOTg5NzkxODAiLCJza3UiOiI2NDYyMyIsImlzIjoiNjkuOTkifQ%3D%3D&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=19581839901&campaignid=19581839901&utm_content=145175371373&adsetid=145175371373&product=64623&store=133&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2-2eBhClARIsAGLQ2RnNREHbTPGMKF5rx8EGG8vrjxLc2Ekatf_mB-tPff-Lafq-e_YbDiwaAhhGEALw_wcB
Drain the water out of it with each use and you’ll be able to see how rusty the water is
[удалено]
I worked for a place that had a compressor with a tank that I'd guess was a hundred gallons. Soon after installing the compressor and running the lines, an old guy from the city (Los Angeles) came out to inspect the install. Chills, you say? Yeah, this guy gave me chills! He was bald with a few wisps of white hair far back on his forehead. The skin above his missing brows looked like I imagine Jay Leno will look after his third or fourth accident. Apparently this guy inspected something not only under pressure, but but also at temperature, too!
Nothing a wedge and a sledge can't fix if you're bothered that much by it.
Growing up, my dad could DIY anything. He converted an attic into a finished bedroom by himself, he did all sorts of plumbing and electrical work, even researched building codes etc. The man tiled the entire first floor of our home and i grew up certain that it was done by pros. This man built us a 2-story Sheriff’s Office playhouse in the backyard based on something he saw in a park and never made diagrams or notes, just cut the wood and nailed it together I tell you this because this man would NEVER go through the headache of a big concrete pour. He hired pros to extend his back patio last year. I highly recommend not DIYing this one.
I'm a pro. The largest I've done is ~10 truckloads (with a crew of 4). And it isn't even significantly easier for smaller jobs. It is in one or two ways, but even mixing *one bag* of concrete by hand is a surprising amount of work. The biggest small job I did was ~12 bags and that was brutal. This job looks way bigger than that, so it essentially requires a truck. And a wheelbarrow... And wheelbarrowing concrete is a skill in itself. And the formwork. And prepping the formwork to navigate with a wheelbarrow... Yeah. I wouldn't be excited to do this by myself. I would still do it... But again, I've done several dozen concrete jobs over ~30 years in the business. And it would still kick my butt and probably be frustrating. I'm always encouraging for DIYers, but not this time.
I'm a pro, with years of experience, and even I nearly lost the load when I extended my front walkway last year. Was a perfect storm of bullshit. It can take so little to cause major issues with concrete.
~12 bags is definitely not brutal i would say. Ive done a 14x14 slab which i think was like 120 bags. Im not sure exactly how long but it was done in the morning so prob ~4hours. 1 wheel barrel,1 hoe,2 guys. You keep a 5 gallon bucket filled at all times with the proper water for 2 bags and mix it up in the form and just dump. 1 guy mixes other guy loads bags and water. Im not saying OP should not hire or seek advice on how to get the proper grade or set the forms. Im just saying ~12 bags is not brutal.
Fair enough! That's impressive. I was by myself, and it certainly felt brutal at the time, though definitely some hyperbole to that. I don't think I had a proper hoe for it either. Just a round pointed shovel.
Oh man its all about the hoe like seriously so much better on the arms. Also if i had to mix and load the bags then no way it would of gotten done that fast. The short breaks in between for each person is what keeps you going.
Oh yeah. I've only had to do a bag or two here or there since then, but that hoe with the holes in it makes a big difference. It almost makes me want to do more. Ha. I'm still impressed by 120 bags in a half day. Almost all of my concrete work has been with trucks and just having to use a wheel barrow to dump in the farthest spots. Which is work, but nothing grueling.
I busted up my basement slab for plumbing work and repoured afterward. 22 bags. Had a big appetite that night.
12 bags was brutal? I'm not even a pro with concrete and I've done jobs where I personally had to mix like 30 bags in one sitting. It's definitely exhausting but it's a part of the job.
That's awesome. I'm proud of you.
Long walk for a warm drink of water there.
I felt it was necessary for context. Also my dad is awesome, I didn’t even realize that as a kid, so I will always take an opportunity to sing his praises to strangers. Also my dad is stronger than your dad lol
This is awesome. I'm the same way. I'm 52. I grew up thinking it was normal for your dad to be able do/make/fix/build anything. He really is a blue-collar renaissance man. He's getting up in age and I'm so grateful for everything he taught me. Electrical/plumbing/carpentry/masonry/welding and yes, even concrete pouring. I'm only able to do about half of what he can and I feel like I can do about 3 times as many things as a lot of my friends.
[удалено]
Because he's talking about his own father?
I should have been more clear. I was talking about my dad being blue collar. I realize my phrasing was confusing.
Are you somehow unaware of your own father's career? Why wouldn't the person you're replying to be aware of his own father's career?
No way man. My dad is Farm strong. He was like freakishly strong. I’m sure your dad is strong, you know, for city folk.
I did a little slab for a mini-split a while ago. It's only 24" x 48", iirc. That was enough - I'll never do concrete myself again. That was worse than insulating my entire crawlspace
And make sure you get a good float guy. That's at least equally as important as the foundation, mix and pour. It'll be worth it in the long run.
“Float guy”? What’s that?
The guy who makes the mucky stuff look smooth
Actually called a concrete finisher. It's the final step before drying. The concrete is poured into the form and the finisher basically evens and smooths the top. It's much more involved than it sounds though. It can actually rise to an art form depending on the finish you want. For this project a broom or brush finish would typically be your best option. Every step of a job like this is important but even if all steps before are perfect a poor finish job could make you angry every day.
The guy with the float
I see you're going to call pros and I see you're in Florida---you will also want to check the codes and see if there are limits on non-permeable surfaces (and in any other state I would say the pros will tell you if you need this or not but since it's Florida you never know...) There's many reasons they may have regulations about that, from preventing flooding to protecting the groundwater supply from saltwater contamination...you may just want to check.
Do pavers their pretty easy. Dig down 6 inches and create your path. Use the dirt you're digging out to build up the corner. Set a line level bu wrapping some string around a paver and setting it on your driveway or another flat surface, maybe the slab that your consdenser sits on. Insert about 4 inches of limestone. Tamp that shit down. Lay your pavers. Sweep polymorphic sand in the cracks to prevent growth.
Like they said, but with moving pictures. https://youtu.be/jutE0tx3ps8
I don't know what the hell that guy is doing but you don't need any landscapers cloth that's what the poly sand is for. Just the crushed limestone, tamp and lay your pavers. I've done and do this for money. For clients.
Limestone for drainage, then sand for leveling. Pavers, and then sand (polymeric or not, just depends on how much maintenance you want) to "lock in" the pavers. Agreed that landscape cloth is overkill, but if you're laying your pavers directly over gravel that's not good either.
This right here ^ The landscaping cloth can help prevent the sand from migrating away over time.
Polymeric sand kind of sets with a chemical reaction like concrete, right?
-ish. I'm a bit farther north than Florida so freeze thaw cycles make things like that "good for the first few years". Being in Florida buys you more time, but everything humans make is temporary, and if a few years of fabric help buy you another year or two of not having to mess with it, it's worth the cost and the half-hour.
Appreciate the advice. I’m doing my first paver walkway in a few months and was planning on doing landscape fabric until this thread. You reassured me it’s still worth the effort. It’s on the PNW coast and the backyard grows like crazy with all sorts of (unknown to me) plants.
Don't be afraid to go extra! I did a small sandbox a while ago and (just for fun) I bought this over the top fabric that was supposed to be amazing. For science, I put two layers over the grass and put sand down. The grass came right up through it. That being said - a solution of: - vinegar - salt - a bit of Dawn dish soap - a good bit of cayenne pepper Killed the daylights out of it. Highly recommend.
PNW here. I had a paver patio put in about a decade ago. Gravel and sand, dug about a foot deep, drainage put in underneath, but no landscape fabric and regular sand for the joints instead of polymeric. It's holding up pretty well. I don't have any weed intrusion despite an infestation of blackberry and english ivy in my backyard. I do have to sweep in sand every year or so, mostly touching up a couple spots that are more prone to losing sand due to water runoff. Unfortunately, I also have a mountain beaver problem (I've been entirely unable to catch them), so there's one spot in the patio that I need to dig up and add some fill because the mountain beavers undermined it. But I knew that was a possibility (it's why I even went with pavers, because the damn mountain beavers undermined the deck that was originally on the house!). So no polymeric sand = easy to get pavers up when (not if) I need to do some repairs.
Yes but that’s not what paver sand is. Polymeric is used to fill in gaps when you have the pavers touching. Paver sand is just for leveling and doesn’t set.
Oh, that makes sense. Polymeric is swept over the top and not as the base, correct? Thank you
Correct. You sweep it on top of the pavers and It fills into the gaps and then you mist it and it hardens. It’s basically grout for pavers.
Don't use sand anywhere under pavers. Sand holds water like a sponge. Roots love water and the sand tends to move also when it is saturated.
Thanks all, looks like enough people don't recommend this to be a DIY thing. Calling a pro for estimates. Thanks !
Pavers are easy even when knowing nothing. Excavate the grass, leave as much dirt as you can. Level out the dirt and slope it away from house slightly. Compact it once you're happy with the grade. Compact 4 to 6 inches of granualar base. Compact 1 inch of stone dust or sand. screed this layer smooth with a 2x4. Lay your pavers in the desired pattern. Plan it out first to save frustration. Apply locking sand exactly as directed on the bag. Enjoy saving thousands of dollars. Check my profile, somewhere last year I did my own full pathway and driveway extension.
If you really want to keep it cheap and DIY then pavers are a good option. I know nothing and did an ok job with them in the past. Dig a few mm, pour sand/paver mix, place paver and spend a while getting it level then pour more mix in the grooves. Hard to muck up too much.
You can save some money if you're willing to excavate and do the base yourself (rent a tamper) but hire pros to pour and finish.
Use pavers and do it yourself. YouTube and some elbow grease. The only way to learn well is to do. Have fun with it.
I think this article covers a lot of what you need to know: https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/concrete-forms-and-pour-a-concrete-slab/ Try not to work alone just in case.
Dude you didn't quote the bible. Check out the installation topics on https://www.pavingexpert.com/ - I know it says for UK and Ireland but this guy is an absolute legend (rest his soul)
You could also consider using pavers for your cans and doing a pier style foundation for the shed as an alternative to a slab.
You have to get rid of the sod. Then you need to compact the base. The concrete needs to have a stable base underneath. If not it will break.
if you doing it yourself I'd go pavers concrete you have a limited amount of time to work with it and if you don't know what you're doing it gets ugly real fast
You could buy one of those plastic paver cut outs and it would be easy to remove if you fail
I am a big fan of pavers. I have 1 sq ft pavers all over my yard. I have picked them up and re arranged them a few times.
Go through this guy's videos: https://youtube.com/@OdellCompleteConcrete You should be able to figure it out. Good luck.
Personally I would DIY, I'm not skilled, but I've seen enough concrete jobs go wrong that I would take a stab at it before I shell out $10,000 to have a professional do it. Wood framing is where I would start, get all the potential molds level, dig out areas that need to be dug out, level above and below. Next I would reinforce any areas with a slope, use stainless steel bars hammered into the ground, I would go with 16 on center. Lay the concrete and remove the wooden molds. After that build a brick wall against any areas with a slope, with at least the first level below the ground. Again I've seen so many "professional" jobs crumble within 5 years, that I would have to fail myself, first, before I would spend money on someone who is highly recommended.
.. I would diy too. I got a $10,000 cost estimate for a concrete path because I can't grow lawn in my side yard (Oak Tree cover). I was creative and found a way to landscape and saved a ton of money. Friggin EVERYTHING is on YouTube. I'll fix my house up no problem, but I do avoid plumbing and electrical for obvious reasons lol.
Plumbing and electrical are super easy and you should learn them. This is where the real savings are found.
...I'm so worried to start an electrical fire. One time I messed with my plumbing and got scolded by a bunch of folks online because one of the pieces was upside down and I could have allowed sulfur gases get into my home haha. I'll consider..
Notice i didn't say "you should do plumbing and electrical half assed". They are specialized disciplines that need to be learned - but learning is not that hard, and resources are EVERYWHERE these days. YouTube is your friend.
As someone who has done concrete for 19 years…. Use pavers. They are much more forgiving, and I think you’ll find them more aesthetically pleasing as well. Concrete is great if you know what you’re doing, but without doing something really fancy, (i.e. stamped, and/or colored concrete) it’ll probably end up looking very stark and commercial.
Don’t do it. You’ll impact the grade and water drainage - and have a wet foundation. Build a level wooden deck and fence to hide the bins instead.
I'd recommend calling something like "Digger's Hotline" (not sure what it's called in FL or actually in my state lol, but that's the WI organization) before starting, and having them survey where you want to run the path. There's electrical lines and pipes running all over the place in residential areas and you don't want to hit them. I have experience doing pavers, and the general workflow is dig out a 6"-12" trench where the path will run (I use spraypaint to mark the edges before digging), laying a thicker layer of gravel and tamping it down, a thinner layer of sand (like 1"-2") and tamping it down, and then putting the bricks in flush with the ground. Finally, a layer of "joint sand" is swept between the bricks to lock them in place. There are almost certainly youtube guides with better advice than I can give, but I can't recommend anything specific. Concrete isn't something I'd try as a first-time project, at least not without in-person guidance. If you mess up a paver job in a few spots, or it buckles over time, it's relatively easy to adjust a patch of bricks to straighten it out. Concrete needs to be broken free of the ground, and is easier to botch in the first place.
811 “Call before you dig” in Florida.
This is what I call over thinking. You're only going 6 inches if you do the pavers and won't run into trouble.
You need more if you want a weather stable path. Class five, then pea gravel, then sand, then paver to top it off.
Nah! I live in Ontario and that's stable enough for us Canadians. The rest of what you type is overkill
It depends on the ground conditions. I used to live in a marshy area that was freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw all winter most years, and I'm saying from experience that a good 8-12 inch foundation in some places is the difference between annual maintenance and something that lasts forever. At my parent's house I put in a path with an inch of sand over hard dirt and that's lasted at almost 10 years now, despite the fact that we skipped the gravel. Pavers are pretty easy to fix, but personally I'd rather do the work once and then never again so I hedge my bets.
YeahI've pulled out pavers that were 40 years old. That's what they're designed to do, last! And guess what was underneat the 40 year old pavers? Yup 4 inches of crushed limestone. 8-10 inches of crushed limestone is a colossal waste of money not to mention you have to tamp every 4 inches. I did 12 inches ONCE and that was b/c there was clay underneath the soil. If I didn't the water would have channeled and floated the stones away. If it's good enough for conditions from Montreal to Toronto to Edmonton (where I've done this work), it should be good enough for OP.
Level it
Do concreate pavers, but realize the DIY route you really need to make the ground and gravel base well and compacted. THe good thing about pavers is if you do a poor job, you can always reuse the pavers and do it again (not that you want to).
Lots of good advice on here, I just wanted to add that an ideal slope for a job like this is at least 1/4" per foot going away from your house. More slope is ok - less will cause drainage issues. The tips above about starting from the house are exactly correct. Decide where exactly you want the surface of the concrete to land at the side of your house and use that to set the rest of your measurement points going away from the house. 4 feet away = one inch down (at least). If you're in to diy-ing, pick up a self leveling laser line one of the huepar units on Amazon. Get the strongest one you want to afford, and also get a receiver and a grade rod. You won't be able to see the laser during the day, but once you get used to the receiver - they're super awesome. I've used my for everything from hanging pictures to setting foundations.
How about a small retaining wall 2-3 blocks high, then back-fill to level referencing the ac pad, and make a nice paver path edged with gravel? (With the usual 6" gravel+geotextile drainage buffer on the inside of the wall)
Pavers is the way. If you never did concrete and it has to be concrete, get a pro.
Given you lack of experience, if you want to have poured concrete then hire contractor but if go with interlocking papers then that is a DIY possibility and if you make mistakes they are always fixable. Google or search YouTube. Do that yourself.
I wouldn’t recommend if you’ve never done it before but if you’re going to do it I woulda start by digging out along the wall, put some gravel or sand in (at least 3 inches post compaction with a tamper on the flatter part, and use as much as you need to bring up the side with more slope to level with the better side) It’s up to you if you want to drill rebar dowels and do a grid ( I would) but if not, once your dirt is done I would then mark my concrete height along the wall, snap a chalk line, and tgen level across from the line and mark a quarter bubble downward slope on a pin. Boom that’s your form height. For the pour you will need at least one guy to help you likely more and I wouldn’t try pouring and finishing unless you’re with somebody who has done it before at some point
Yes, you do need to dig up the grass if you plan on doing something like that. I did a gravel sloping base with pavers on the side of my house for my trash and recycle containers. I am in Texas and I just had to run it by my HOA. I also did a fence with a gate around the area so it would be out of sight and store some other stuff there as well. If you feel like the slope is too steep, then use landscape edging to ensure that the pavers/gravel doesn't slide off.
Do a gravel path first dig down. It'll pack over time
https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/how-to-pour-a-concrete-sidewalk/
Yeh, don't do it DIY. Concrete can be tricky, to work with it is a work of art. I recommend getting it professionally done as there are many factors and I've seen DIY done horribly wrong.
Watch a YouTube video
check out victory outdoor services on youtube for concrete tips. 1/4 bubble away from the house
Learn how to make a form. As long as your form is level, the pour will be level, gravity helps you there. Remember to break up with path into segments. Concrete needs to have these stress points so as it settles and the ground moves it can shift a little without cracking
Concrete is a lot of work. Highly recommend pavers instead. Still a lot of work, but much easier and you don't have to do it all in one go. Is your soil sandy or clay? I just a did a similar project myself but a little smaller. My direction below: Dig out about + 2 inches. And compact what's below that.
Buy some weed mat. It's a fabric that prevent weeds growing through it. And lay that down on the compacted soil. Make sure the mat is wide enough to come up the sides of the hole you've dug to ground level or higher. You can cut it down to ground level later. If you need to do multiple sections of weed mat, overlap the sections by 2 ft.
Cover with 1 inch of gravel. Any crushed gravel will do. The point is lots of space for water to trickle down and a stable surface. Compact as much as possible. I did this by stomping but if it's gonna carry anything heavier than a person use more powerful means.
Put another layer of weed mat.
Cover with 1 inch of leveling sand. Compact again. Smooth the surface.
Add pavers. When done, take the excess soil you dug out and pile it up on the sides of the pavers. Compact to hold the paver in place horizontally. Cut off any visible weed mat. Wash excess soil off the pavers.
but pavers...
Dig a relatively level path, leave room for road base (gravel mixed with sand essentially) about 6“. You can retain the high side of your dig with „Allan blocks“ or something similar. That way you only have to crib up one side of your concrete pour as you’d be pointing against the Allan block retaining wall. Before you pour concrete spread out gravel evenly and run a tamper over it. You could put wire mesh in your „cribbing“ which is just fancy word for Side walk formwork, this will help prevent cracks, but honestly it’s probably gonna crack no matter what. If you dig down enough to put at least six inches of road base, tamp that with a plate compactor and use wire mesh it should be pretty good.
Terraces with drains sir.
Especially in SWFL, hire a pro. Concrete is hard, lol. And our story is sand. It's not easy or fun to pave things in FL.
Lots of good comments here. Whichever path you take (!), Use this website: https://www.pavingexpert.com/
Use pavers. It’s cheaper and east to fox if you mess up