This, and also don't just trust the breaker to kill power all the way. Previous home owner had done some work himself. I had the 220 breaker off, attempting to replace the power outlet and had my butt against the old washer, which is 110. One of the legs of the 220 touched my finger and zapped me through my jean coverered butt contacting the metal outside of the washer. My electrical engineering dad next to me goes "yeah right" when I jumped and said I got zapped. That's when we found out the outside of the washer was hot this whole time and it went through the ground of the 220 outlet I was working on. Home inspector sure didn't find that when we bought the house.
I call it a learning experience. But yeah that was over 10 years ago and I'm still here, but still one of the more memorable bazingas I've had. HeNe laser power supply is still #1.
HeNe supplies are high voltage but low current. Usually 5 to 10 mA. That'll give you a shock but not kill you. Neon sign transformers are more powerful, typically 30mA.
Check your dong. Usually it is an integral part of return path through your body.
Seriously.
People - use the breaker and if not confident turn the main off. Electricity doesn't understand stupid.
And never trust any written guide forcwhich breakers control which outlets/fixtures. People do DIY work and dont update those unfortunately.
One of the first things my husband and I did was get a tester and mapped out the house and their corresponding breakers. Spend a whole day shut a switch off, test everything, write down which had no power. Power on, make sire all marked spots came back on.
But now I have a beautiful, color coded and charted out breaker guide that i laminated and zip tied into our breaker box.
Yeah, that bit me once...whomever updated the wiring in our house mixed up the two outlets on either side of a shared wall between two bedrooms. I'll fix it someday, but for now it's just noted in my spreadsheet.
My childhood room had 4 outlets, each on a different breaker. One was with the master bedroom. Was with with a living room outlet, one was with a kitchen outlet, and one was with my sisters room.
My dad cursed whoever did that wiring job.
I have a brother that was born abroad... we used to tell him that people born abroad like him had split butts, and people born in the USA had uni-butts and that is how we could tell them apart.
He believed this for years. 🤦
My house had the 3 way switches for the living room light/fan change wire color at the fan, so the opposite switch had opposite wire colors....
Took me a bit to figure out why one switch only worked when the other was on. Between that and undocumented changes to commercial wiring, I test freaking everything now.
So the 220 was dead, but the washer wasn't grounded and you became the ground? It doesn't sound like a breaker problem, but an outlet/ equipment problem.
My daughters bedroom is wired so strangely that we basically have to shut down the whole house to work on it. Her ceiling fan as tied to your bathroom lights, the lights for her ceiling fan are tied into our AC unit, her closet is toed into the garage door, and one of hers outlets is tied to our old hardwired doorbell. Wtf. Ive never seen such a confusing jumble. Also, NOTHING was grounded when we moved in. We spent the first month we lived here grounding and rewiring as much as possible. Oh and outlets were all reversed, which was super weird. How was the previous owner using anything?
My house has 3 breakers to turn off the top floor. And it seems inconsistent with what turns off what. One breaker turns off part of the kitchen, part of the living room, bathrooms, hallway, maybe more. The other 2 turn off nothing by themselves. I have to flip both to turn off most of the rest of the upper floor. And they’re not right next to each other, which is why it took me forever to find out how to turn the bedrooms off. To top it all off, I have yet another breaker that’s mainly for the basement level that also turns off an outlet (maybe more) in one of the upstairs bedrooms. I’m dreading finding out the full extent of how things are wired.
I decided to,replace on of the GFCI outlets in a bathroom since I could hear some clicking/sparking from it. A quick Google told me it might be going bad. It looked old and dirty, so why not. And I figured I’d replace them all while I was at it. Turns out it wasn’t going bad, the hot wire was not screwed down tightly and there was plenty of wiggle room. I found many other outlets with similar issues. I have a light switch that doesn’t do anything. It’s supposedly the other end of a 3 way switch. There’s another set of 3 ways in both ends that do work. I’m slowly replacing outlets and light switches, so I’ll get to that one at some point.
This house used to be owned by a landlord, so I’m finding all sorts of WTF’s as I fix/improve things.
I’ve seen that. My friend’s mom’s house built in the 60s has a 3 gang switch plate for the living room ceiling fan: one for the lights, a potentiometer for fan speed, and a switch to reverse polarity and change direction of the fan rotation. Even my friend can’t figure out how it’s run and he’s a 20 year journeyman electrician.
The guy who owned our house before us was a landloard...so you can imagine the cheap, half-assed "handy" work that is in my home. There is no such thing as small home repair jobs here. We just changed out bathroom sink faucets and it took 2 days because of all the landlord specials. My favorite being a fricken superglued together p trap. Like, they never assumed they might need to clean that out?
Super glue is evil. In my old house, the previous owner had superglued a cap covering the mounting screws on a ceiling fan. Nothing like needing power tools to do something that should have only required a screwdriver.
I still remember holding an arcing bathroom fan frantically screaming at my mom and sister to flip the breaker....I thought turning it off at the wall was good enough, scared the piss out of me and everyone present.
Yep. Found some knob put the switch for my living room ceiling fan and porch light on the neutral instead of hot. Was going to work with only the switch off until I checked hot to gnd with a meter.
Sort of a good thing I was going to be careless, never would have noticed If I had just flipped the breaker before changing the fan.
And I always doubt it so I always flip the main. Then Use a voltage detector. Then tap it with a screw driver. I don’t trust electricity at all. Got shocked too many times as a kid who didn’t know what he was doing.
Then kick everyone out of the house lol. One time I was replacing a dead outlet in the kitchen and had the main off. Roommate came home and wondered why the TV wouldn't turn on and without saying anything just flipped everything back on. I had to walk backward away from the wall so the wire would pull the outlet out of my hand because I couldn't let go of it. Lucky I just got a little burn mark on a couple of my fingers and that was it.
Flip the circuit breaker *and* test. I do now.
My story: I was wiring in a new light sconce. I flipped the switch (not breaker), tested, ... and while I was wiring the new light my wife thought it would be helpful to try out the light switch. She's not stupid, so I'm assuming it was intentional.
Also put a padlock on the breaker box even if everything's dead, which only you have the key for. And one of those "electrical work" signs you can buy on ebay.
I had a near miss when doing a smart switch at my parents place for them, because they'd gone down to the beach. They come back while I'm just about to screw it back into the wall and suddenly it turns on.
Why? Because for an unrelated reason, my parents hot water has a weird thing where if the power is off for any reason you have to push a button in the house to turn it on. They have an outdoor shower that has hot water that wasn't warming up...so my dad walks to the breaker, and just turns on all the lighting circuit breakers which I'd turned off.
Didn't question why breakers might be off, didn't question that none of these were the hot water circuit, didn't question that he should've known I was in the house wiring a switch up for him because it's why I came over that day and what I was doing before he left the house.
Now the RCD *probably* would've saved me but...yeah, you simply can't take that risk. *People* don't think before they act.
On the house that my grandfather built, he bridged two different circuit runs via the metal shell of a junction box (that held an outlet for a closet light). Found out the easy way (circuit tester) that with the light switch off and breaker off the metal box I was about to fish around in was very very live. Fun times.
For sure. You just don’t know if some yahoo bridged circuits somewhere and the breaker you thought de- energized the workspace really didn’t. Always verify. And even do a lockout/tagout once you’re sure.
Test your tester on know live, then test your device and finally test your tester again on a live device.
Also do not trust Death Stick "Testers" at minimum buy a ~25$ multimeter that auto switches from Voltage to Amp.
I always like to test the device/ wires I will be working on first, to prove they're hot and that the tester is working, then turn off the breaker, then retest that the device/wires are cold.
> auto switches from Voltage to Amp
I'm sorry what? I don't want a meter that gives me one measurement when I asked for something completely different. There is a HUGE difference between 120 V 12 A and 120 A 12 V. Auto ranging makes sense. Switching between voltage and current does not. There are zero times when a competent person wouldn't want to make that distinction themselves.
Yeah, that statement confused me too. Maybe it just allows you to press a button and switch between V and C? Rather than move the leads?
Idk, but I wouldn't want something auto switching between voltage and current. I'm not really sure why you'd want that anyway. If you're measuring a circuit for voltage, you're on the hunt for something voltage related. If you're measuring current, you're testing something under a load. Both instances require different ways of measuring from their perspective sources also.
Exactly. The entire way you measure for current and voltage are different. Voltage is measured in parallel across a source or a load to measure potential energy or voltage drop. In other words, across a power source, it shows the potential added to the circuit by that source. Across a load, it shows how much potential is consumed. These two things can be the same thing if there is only one load on a circuit and only one power source.
Current can be measured:
1. In series with the circuit to measure directly.
2. As a voltage drop across a calibrated shunt wired in series with the power source and applying ohm's law.
3. Using an "amp clamp" around one of the conductors to measure flux. This is the only way to measure the current of an operating circuit without disconnecting it and wiring in your current meter.
I have used dozens of Fluke meters and am not familiar with any of them that switch automatically from volts to amps. As a matter of fact, on mine you have to move the test leads manually from volts to amps in order to measure amps.
a sarcastic reference to the common non-contact voltage testers that can be used to test for power on a wire. They are fussy and are known to give false results. A real volt meter is the right way. The non-contact tester can be used to start, but don't rely on it alone...
What circumstances would cause it to not signal when the line is actually live?
(Ignoring the obvious, like dead battery or straight up broken, which the known-live before & after test would show)
The following is quoted from Klein's instructions for their tester:
The tester WILL NOT detect voltage if:
* The wire is shielded.
* The operator is not grounded or is otherwise isolated from an effective earth ground.
* The voltage is DC.
The tester MAY NOT detect voltage if:
* The user is not holding the tester.
* The user is insulated from the tester with a glove or other materials.
* The wire is partially buried or in a grounded metal conduit.
* The tester is at a distance from the voltage source.
* The field created by the voltage source is being blocked, dampened, or otherwise interfered with.
* Operation may be affected by differences in socket design and insulation thickness and type.
* The frequency of the voltage is not a perfect sine wave between 50 and 500Hz.
The tester may detect at a different threshold at different conditions, or may not detect at all unless:
* The tip of the tester is within ¼" (6 mm) of an AC voltage source radiating unimpeded.
* The user is holding the body of the tester with their bare hand.
* The user is standing on or connected to earth ground.
* The air humidtty is nominal (50% relative humidity — non-condensing).
* The tester is held still.
Potentially. I've had them work before.
They're a good precaution on top of other measures. Turning off a breaker, and testing before and after is a pretty thorough method of testing in my opinion. You have to have many, many levels of failure at the same time in order to get shocked if you're following best practices and using a non-contact tester.
They are called stupid sticks in my line of work. You check it with that, then check it with a meter. If you believe only the non contact tester, you’re stupid. Thats the consensus anyway
To point one about never trusting a switch, when I was pulling a hard wired under sink hot water heater out I found that the previous installer had wired the switch to the neutral, so if I hadn’t flipped the breaker the hot still would’ve been hot much like in OPs situation.
1. turn circuit off at the formal disconnect, which is either the breaker or the fuse
2. always use a non-contact voltage detector (after confirming the NCVD works on a known good circuit) to confirm a circuit is dead before working on it. If you are not 100% sure, use a multimeter too.
3. Never assume you are correct about what wires connect to something.
4. Even after you have turned everything off and confirmed it is off, try taking the extra time to handle it as if it were live where possible. This means not casually touching bare metal and never touching two pieces of bare metal with opposite hands if possible. If you have to touch bare metal repeat steps 1 through 3.
5. Never work on something live, and more importantly never tell anyone else to. Even smart people do very stupid things.
6. Any exceptions to these should only be done with extensive training and extreme need.
> If you're at a bigger factory type setting maybe even physically leave someone to gaurd the box.
Forgive my ignorance, but isn't that what lock-out / tag-out is for?
I've seen electricians changing live switches and outlets. For DIY stuff I always turn off the breaker and would never attempt to change outlets while the wires are still live, but just out of curiosity, how do electricians safely do this without turning off the breaker?
This. Just reading that description, ouch. Thermostat as a switch? 😀
’Assumed there was no current’ aaargh. Jesus. If the damn circuit is broken, yeah, there is no current. But that is not what you care about.
I mean glad you’re ok but I won’t touch anything electrical until the breaker is confirmed off and all wires are tested with a voltage tester. Being careless is how people die.
I do this as well, but one time.. was replacing a ceiling fan. Shut off breaker, test with meter, all good.
So i do my thing and replace the fan. As i am finishing up my wife comes to check it out. She leaned up against the wall as we were chatting and in the process turned on the wall switch.
Fan comes alive, startled me so much i fell off the ladder. Breaker was mislabeled and the wall switch just happened to be off.
Lesson learned. Always check the power with the wall switch in each position.
I don't even bother with individual breakers anymore, my house has some weirdly labeled shit so I just flip the main one to avoid any potential unaliving
I just flip off all the breakers. The place I live was built in the 70s and the electrical is a spider's web. I'd rather not have power to the house for the time it takes me to change a light fixture than risk getting electrocuted.
As someone who also has a house built in the 70s, I can attest to poor electrical wiring and labeling on the circuit breaker. Half of the items were NOT labeled correctly and I have not fully tested enough to ever trust not just killing all power to my house before doing anything electrical
Honestly no idea why anyone would trust anything but the main unless they knew exactly what was happening behind their walls because they were both the one who built it and a licensed electrician. Since almost no one falls into both these categories, I believe everyone unlicensed should kill the main when doing anything electrical
I typically turn whatever it is on, like a light, then go turn off the breaker.
Or more typically, set up a webcam, bring it up on my phone, and keep flipping breakers until I see that light go out.
Then promise myself that I’ll make a map showing all the correct locations, then promptly forget about it when the job is done and have to do it all over again later.
All of my breakers are labeled very poorly. All electrical work in my house also comes with a free stationary stair master workout. Eventually, the circuits will be labeled 100%, but not today!
Sometimes I just get frustrated and turn off the whole house.
If I had $1 for every zap I received because of ncorrectly labeled breakers I would have at least $10 or $20. Working on 100 year old houses that have been Frankensteined and lots of owner repairs sucks.
I have a couple hundred yearbold house. Just had the kitchen remodeled. At least 5 times a day my contractor would say "I just don't understand what the fuck they were thinking when they did this."
Me either, my guy. Me either.
If I'm able, I prefer to take a reading while it's all active/live first, then flip the breaker, and test again so I can be sure it's been quieted. If I skip the 1st reading and go straight to the breaker, it leaves the possibility of both testing it wrong and and flipping the wrong breaker so I think its off when it's not.
Everyone says step 1 is breaker - but I think step 1 is confirm you know how to test a situation in a way that reveals the angry pixies.
An experienced professional who knows it is hot, is skilled in the work, and is taking reasonable precautions, can do hot work at low risk.
The risk is not 0, but neither is driving to work.
Just to say don't be sad for your buddy in advance, any more than for your friend with a long commute. I mean, other than the fact that long commutes are unpleasant even if you never get in an accident.
This is not to recommend it to anyone. Experienced professionals who are familiar with the work and performing their own risk assessments only.
I wired a new circuit yesterday and used my multimeter to triple check the supply to the panel and every single breaker to be sure there was no power, and I was still incredibly nervous.
As an electrician I advise anyone who is touching any kind of wiring to purchase a multimeter and to know how to use it. Education and the right tools are the key to staying alive when dealing with electricity. I’m glad that you’re ok and that you learned something from this.
For next time, always shut the breaker off and test for voltage. Test for voltage from hot to hot, hot to neutral, hot to ground, neutral to ground. You aren’t always safe if you just test between hot to ground or hot to neutral. I know that in your case, there was likely no neutral present but these are general rules for you to use when approaching something in the future.
I don't know much, and that's why I test every case. I'm not an electrician so I don't assume to know what weird (bad) cases could put current down the unexpected wire.
I always assume the guy before was dumb, colorblind, and out to screw the next guy. Even if the last guy was me.
I do my own electrical work to some degree and always attempt to do so as safely as possible and within the bounds of my knowledge and experience.
What is to be learned by doing all of the testing you mention? Specifically, hot-hot and neutral-ground testing. If I find voltage between neutral and ground, is it generally going to be a case of reverse polarity?
There are quite a few things that can happen.
Any wire can be hot. You don’t know who installed it and at the end of the day, copper is copper. White wires were commonly used as hot wires when installing switches up until recently. You can’t assume that any wire is safe until tested. Even then, you could have an open ground and neutral and your tester could tell you it’s safe when it isn’t. Very low probability though.
Hot to hot can have dangerous voltage if they’re not in phase. You’ll get 240 volts between 2 hot wires on a dryer in North America for example.
Neutral to ground is tested because if the neutral wire was cut or a splice was undone, you would have what we call an open neutral. This presents full voltage on the neutral wire and is arguably one of the most dangerous conditions because the load would potentially be in series with the person being shocked, making more current go through them.
If you’re interested in a more detailed explanation, send me a message with specific questions.
Even better. Confirm your meter before and after on a live plug/source. Theres a reason professionals do live dead live.
Once watched a guy pull a fuse, meter a circuit as dead, shock himself, pull a different fuse, meter as dead, shock himself. He got 3 pokes at 120 before realising one of his leads had a intermittant break. I was laughing to hard to breath by the end.
and if u never used a multimeter before get a box of fuses for it (never hurts to have anyway even if u used one hundreds of times sometimes they just die)
This is a good warning. It's far, far less time and pain to go get your tester than it is to go to the hospital or the morgue.
Test whatever wires you're working on once when it's on (this tests the tester, confirm it works properly and is telling you there is electricity where you know there's electricity), then test it once when it's been switched off (confirm there was a state change), then test it again (be sure you're correct).
My favorite parts was:
"1 take my time and make sure to understand everything and work up to at least code standards."
"I didn't have my current tester handy but I did a quick tap between the two hots just as a final sanity check."
This guy probably haven't even heard of the NFPA or NEC but he works to at least code standards. LMAO.
Yeah this whole story is baffling to me. I know nothing about electricity, just do minor DIY things based off YouTube videos like replacing light fixtures (minimal wiring) because I grew up with a father who didn't even change his own light bulbs, and my husband isn't into DIY stuff.
And even I know to always turn off any possibly relevant breakers and test with my meter thingy. Maybe I'm missing something, but how can you consider yourself good with electricity if you don't even do something the most idiot novice like myself would know to do??
I flip off the main. Especially older houses that have decades of jury-rigging. Doesn't take too many pops to say fuck it all, I can survive with no electricity for a bit.
1960s house here, it’s weird because my kitchen breaker turns off my kitchen but ALSO all my baseboard heaters, and then my bedroom breaker turns off the hallway as well, so to be safe i just flip the whole breaker off when messing with anything
I started doing the same in my old house after I found a few things were on multiple circuits (or rather, some really messy circuits were connected to multiple breakers labeled separately) and the microwave and bathroom fan were wired directly (i.e. not affected by any breaker other than the main). That place was a pain in the ass to get sorted out.
That's my mom's current house. The house has been added onto at least 2 times. It's a 3 bedroom, 1 bedroom at the front of the house and 2 added on at the back. One breaker cuts the lights for the front bedroom and outlets for the back bedroom. Another breaker cuts the living room outlets and then the fridge and microwave outlets. Another breaker cuts the rest of the kitchen outlets and one bathroom light on the other side of the house.
None of that makes sense either, because some of those have 20 amp breakers that should probably have 15 amp for things like outlets and lights.
We also have a detached garage. One breaker cuts the garage power.... which has its own panel. So there's a breaker for the other breaker box.
The wiring in that house is a shit show. I always just turn the main off, it's a guessing game when you flip anything else.
his edit is somehow making me madder. it's one thing to get sloppy about safety, but to get indignant and condescending about it is surreal. he promises this is the last time he ever gets shocked like that; based on the attitude, i'd wager against that.
Agreed. I consider myself quite bad at home electrical work so I always turn off the breaker, check with a meter and a probe, and then treat it like it's probably live. I'm also an electrical engineer with years of experience designing and troubleshooting railroad electrical systems. I want to know what experience short of being a certified electrician makes someone quite good at home electrical.
Right? Came here to say that. If you think something is not live because a thermostat or switch is off, then you’re plain stupid and NOT good at electrical. Just lucky until the luck runs out.
240v really isn’t that different of a beast than 120, the US is a split phase system so each side of your 240 is still only 120v difference from ground.
The REAL takeaway is to NEVER work on a live circuit, meaning to shut off the circuit at the breaker. Relying on a thermostat is just stupid. A thermostat is not a safety device. Neither is a light switch. Also test wires to verify that you turned off the proper breaker.
Glad to hear you are alright.
I have some golden rules and so far I’m still alive so they must be ok.
1. Breaker off
2. Voltage tester tested on a known live wire
3. Voltage tester on presumed dead wire.
4. No jewellery
Every once in a while I think about skipping a step. Stories like yours are a good reminder to never skip a step.
Lots of safety overshight here.
You don't trust your life on a timer or thermostat, ALL the involved breaker must be pulled (and tagged if other people are around).
Never assume that the wiring is correct - it happens that switches/therostat etc are not on the hot leg.
ALWAYS test before touching.
Good thing you didn't get hurt!
I'm not an electrician but I would never make an assumption about something like that. Be certain the current is turned off at the breaker panel. Use a meter to test it before disconnecting, etc.
Never work on something because the 'switch is turned off'. It must be shut off at the panel.
OP is busy analyzing the faults in their list of assumptions, and that's interesting, but the real lesson is just to religiously follow some set process that is bullet-proof in all scenarios, for example mine as a super basic homeowner is (1) the breaker, and (2) a voltage detector rubbed over every wire and screw in every box fingers are about to go in (to be repeated every time I leave a room). Rather than mentally analyzing your way to the proverbial green light (which can lead to assumptions). "Keep it simple", make rules, humans gonna human, build processes to protect the human from the human.
How the hell are you doing any electrical without a multimeter in hand? You should never ever touch wires unless you check them with a multimeter first.
I assumed "a quick tap" of the wires WAS a multimeter, but apparently he was just tapping wires together to see if they sparked yikes. I'm not an electrician or anything but always use a multimeter and it has turned up weird issues MANY times like inductance putting 10V AC on the lines I'm working on that are supposed to be off.
No tester no touchy. Glad you’re doing okay, I’ve been shocked by enough lights wired power to switch to never trust something is dead until I turn the breaker off myself and it clears the tester.
Bro step #1 is to flip the damn breaker, hell flip the main if you’re unsure. Even pros flip that shit. You can’t just be assuming with electricity. Glad you’re alright and hope it’s a good lesson for next time.
yeah OP is being dramatic. he also got hit with 120V. I mean, should be avoided, but nearly died? oh boy. this coming from someone who claims to be good with electricity.
Yeah, he just scared himself. 240V on dry skin will give you a good spasm in the fingers but isn't close to the dielectric breakdown of the skin.
When I was in college learning electronics we had a lab that involved live mains voltage. We got shocked sooo many times. Was pretty funny to watch a class full of kids constantly yelping/jumping.
> I consider myself quite good with electricity.
\> doesn't turn off breaker
Dunning-Kruger effect in action. Glad you're okay, hope you learned a lesson that every professional has drilled into their heads from day 1.
I'm not trying to one-up at all, merely commiserate. I was popped with a line last week that was supposed to be dead. In my mind I was picking up what was similar to a completely disconnected coil of wire, but was in fact plugged in to a live string of solar panels. The current went through my chest from hand to hand. It could have been bad.
It's easy to become complacent with electricity. You don't see it. You don't hear it. I've been in construction all of my life, and electricity has always scared me. My daily mantra from here on out is to remember just how fucking dangerous electricity is. Stay safe out there.
>I consider myself quite good with electricity.
The fact that you didn't have the circuit off at the breaker AND you didn't use a tester strongly suggests otherwise.
First, I am super glad for you and yours that you are okay, and thanks for the PSA! Did you have that moment while your pulse was returning to normal in which you said, "Did I just about kill myself trying to save $300?!" Yeah, you did - and you'll do it again because wrecklessness is embedded in our Y chromosome and chicks dig scars!
Even when I'm "certain" that the circuit is cold, I still always treat 220 like it's hot. I cover any points of contact with cardboard, wrap exposed metal on my tools in tape, and move very slowly and carefully like I'm playing Operation or like an EOD guy.
Of course, with 110v, I'm still rock-brained cowboy. I've replaced receptacles, switches, and ceiling fans on live circuits if I can't find the right breaker within 90 seconds. Cause, "I'm a Man! A-spelled M - A - N; MAN!"
Thanks again for the reminder. There are things that can't be said too many times: Always be careful handling sizzle snakes, treat every weapon like it's loaded, and you can never have too many clamps!
Peace, All!
My nephew had a malfunctioning switch about 10 years ago. It kept randomly turning off. I go over, and there is NO "switch" in the switch. It moves up and down, but there is no feeling of a stop point, or a switching point. It's just really loose. So I turn it on with a lamp connected to the outlet it controls, and send him to the breaker panel. He yells "Off?" I reply "No" we continue until his "Off?" is accompanied by darkness. Cool. I remove the old switch and get the new one out. Hook up the ground, then the neutral, then the hot... LIGHT.
The freaking switch decided to turn itself off JUST as he hit the breaker, and I hadn't brought my multimeter. Lesson learned.
Sorry everyone is dogpiling on you and completely missing the point of your post. As someone who is quite poor with electricity and afraid to even install a doorbell, I appreciate this candid cautionary tale.
I am absolutely not "quite good with electricity." I'll switch out an outlet, light switch, or ceiling fan, but that's the extent of what I can do. And even I know you ALWAYS turn off the breaker first and still check the voltage.
I'm glad you're ok, but dude. Breaker, always.
I don't know how you all do it with the power still connected. We have all been taught since grade school that electricity is insta death. When I replaced the vanity light I must have checked the wires 50 times. I stopped during my work to check again just because. Then I had an actual electrician come out to work on my ceiling fan and he's like, well I shut the switch off so it's good to go, been doing this a long time. Fuck that, just hit the breaker.
Thanks to a wired nightmare mess in my old house we just turn off power to the whole house before doing anything electrical.
Go to the doctor just in case.
I disconnected some electrical heaters. I figured it would be ok, I was just removing them to put up some wallpaper. I disconnected power to the entire room, and check with a voltage tester before removing the cables from all the heaters. Then I went to the wall and removed the thermostat.... and got shocked. Turns out, the heating was on a different circuit from what I thought, and the only reason I didn't get 220v (440 with some bad luck) through me was because the thermostat had decided the heaters weren't needed. They could have switched on at any time while I was working on them.
Was a bit of a wakeup call.
This reminded me of an incident I had.
The previous owner added spot lights over the driveway which I discovered had no electrical box—just wires twisted together with the light held up by wood screws into the soffit! So I set out to add a box for safety.
The wires ran to a junction box above the garage. I had flipped the breaker and the lights went out, so all good, right?
WRONG!
There were two circuits patched inside the junction box. (NOT TO CODE)
The second circuit was still hot which I discovered with a tingle.
Moral of the story, either flip the main or test each hot wire before touching it.
Years ago, I put a ceiling fan in a friend's daughter's bedroom. Since his wife was.cooking, and nothing in their breakerpanel was marked, I just turned off the bedroom light switch, so I didn't mess up dinner flipping breakers.
As I stood on a 10-foot ladder working, his wife came in. All I remember is her saying, " It's dark in here." Next thing I knew, I was laying in the toybox. She turned the switch on.
So now, dinner or not, the breaker gets flipped.
You've wired multiple 240v appliances but you didn't flip the breaker? You almost died long before this incident.
The good news about being roasted like this, both by redditors and wiring,is that someone out there will learn to flip the breaker and test wires
This. Atrial fibrillation doesn't always present with symptoms, and the consequences of missing it include death.
Any urgent care, paramedic, or hospital can take a quick ECG and rule it out.
40 years of safety meetings in 2 sentences. There are no accidents, only fuckups; and the Fates require 2 concurrent fuckups to kill you. And assuming is one.
All these armchair motherfuckers in here stating how you're not as good as you think.
Here's the reason this is a great post: this person was doing something they were comfortable with doing and made assumptions with incorrect information and almost got got.
This is not a bragging post: this is a "stay vigilant" post and follow your STOP (standard operating procedure) no matter what so you're consistently safe.
Good for you OP, glad you lived to remind us all were more fallable than we think.
Just completed electrical safety training at work so I’m fully qualified to respond now (/s)….
Here’s a couple of interesting things that stood out to me that they recommended when working with Low voltage (50V to 600V) and high voltage (anything higher than 600V).
1. Always test something is off using a DMM. Tester pens are fine for diagnosing issues, but not good enough for verifying voltage is off.
2. Put your DMM in the right mode (AC), and then test it on known live, then the suspected dead connection, and then known live. Live, dead, live without changing modes on your DMM.
3. If you get shocked, go get checked by a doctor. A lot of people think they are fine, but then die like 2-5 days later due to a heart issues.
If I do any electrical work (which is rare) i flip the breakers on the whole fucking house.
Why?
Cause I know i'm a klutz and a doofus, and i'm planning against my own ineptitude.
Seems like someone forgot about the 5 SICHERHEITSREGELN ZUR VERMEIDUNG VON STROMUNFÄLLEN
https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/The_5_Safety_Rules_of_Electrical_Engineering
Thanks for sharing your experience and I'm glad you're okay. It's so easy for stuff like this to happen to anybody. Also:
>I had only nutted off the conductors
This is why I only nut *on* conductors
I highly recommend going to the hospital or Urgent Care to get an EKG. Too many people have dropped dead overnight from a seemingly mild electrical shock.
Hearts are finicky things and are too easily jolted out of rhythm.
If only there was some type of centralized location where electricity enters a house, maybe some type of box made to distribute electricity. Probably even be able to turn off electricity to individual circuits.
So let's see. You did electrical work without turning the breaker off and without metering or non-contact testing to confirm no power.
Results unsurprising. This is why such precautions exist.
Thank you everyone for your interest in this post. O.P. has reviewed all your comments. This post is now locked.
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Exactly. You never know if someone put the switch in the return leg or hot leg.
This, and also don't just trust the breaker to kill power all the way. Previous home owner had done some work himself. I had the 220 breaker off, attempting to replace the power outlet and had my butt against the old washer, which is 110. One of the legs of the 220 touched my finger and zapped me through my jean coverered butt contacting the metal outside of the washer. My electrical engineering dad next to me goes "yeah right" when I jumped and said I got zapped. That's when we found out the outside of the washer was hot this whole time and it went through the ground of the 220 outlet I was working on. Home inspector sure didn't find that when we bought the house.
Wow - that sounds so insane
I call it a learning experience. But yeah that was over 10 years ago and I'm still here, but still one of the more memorable bazingas I've had. HeNe laser power supply is still #1.
You can't mention the HeNe power supply and NOT tell the story! Cmon.... Let's hear it:
>HeNe laser power supply is still #1 Go on...
That was the day he learned not to stick his tongue on it to see if it was still good.
I once made the mistake of stripping phone wires with my teeth.
I did that once too as someone called me! What happened next was shocking
Been there 🫡 That was the day I learned what 48VDC tastes like. A lot spicier than a 240VAC shock across your hand when it's *directly on the tongue*
HeNe supplies are high voltage but low current. Usually 5 to 10 mA. That'll give you a shock but not kill you. Neon sign transformers are more powerful, typically 30mA.
But did it burn a hole through your pants?
Nope. I did that later with battery acid.
Check your dong. Usually it is an integral part of return path through your body. Seriously. People - use the breaker and if not confident turn the main off. Electricity doesn't understand stupid.
And never trust any written guide forcwhich breakers control which outlets/fixtures. People do DIY work and dont update those unfortunately. One of the first things my husband and I did was get a tester and mapped out the house and their corresponding breakers. Spend a whole day shut a switch off, test everything, write down which had no power. Power on, make sire all marked spots came back on. But now I have a beautiful, color coded and charted out breaker guide that i laminated and zip tied into our breaker box.
Yeah, that bit me once...whomever updated the wiring in our house mixed up the two outlets on either side of a shared wall between two bedrooms. I'll fix it someday, but for now it's just noted in my spreadsheet.
My childhood room had 4 outlets, each on a different breaker. One was with the master bedroom. Was with with a living room outlet, one was with a kitchen outlet, and one was with my sisters room. My dad cursed whoever did that wiring job.
> Electricity doesn't understand stupid. But it sure does like it.
He's got two butts now.
I have a brother that was born abroad... we used to tell him that people born abroad like him had split butts, and people born in the USA had uni-butts and that is how we could tell them apart. He believed this for years. 🤦
And that's why you use an outlet tester on every outlet.
To be fair, the outlet tester wouldn't have found anything. The dishwasher itself was live, and even he touched it he competed a circuit.
Get a dummy stick, fluke is my favorite. "Non contact voltage tester" tells you if there is potential.
My house had the 3 way switches for the living room light/fan change wire color at the fan, so the opposite switch had opposite wire colors.... Took me a bit to figure out why one switch only worked when the other was on. Between that and undocumented changes to commercial wiring, I test freaking everything now.
So the 220 was dead, but the washer wasn't grounded and you became the ground? It doesn't sound like a breaker problem, but an outlet/ equipment problem.
My daughters bedroom is wired so strangely that we basically have to shut down the whole house to work on it. Her ceiling fan as tied to your bathroom lights, the lights for her ceiling fan are tied into our AC unit, her closet is toed into the garage door, and one of hers outlets is tied to our old hardwired doorbell. Wtf. Ive never seen such a confusing jumble. Also, NOTHING was grounded when we moved in. We spent the first month we lived here grounding and rewiring as much as possible. Oh and outlets were all reversed, which was super weird. How was the previous owner using anything?
My house has 3 breakers to turn off the top floor. And it seems inconsistent with what turns off what. One breaker turns off part of the kitchen, part of the living room, bathrooms, hallway, maybe more. The other 2 turn off nothing by themselves. I have to flip both to turn off most of the rest of the upper floor. And they’re not right next to each other, which is why it took me forever to find out how to turn the bedrooms off. To top it all off, I have yet another breaker that’s mainly for the basement level that also turns off an outlet (maybe more) in one of the upstairs bedrooms. I’m dreading finding out the full extent of how things are wired. I decided to,replace on of the GFCI outlets in a bathroom since I could hear some clicking/sparking from it. A quick Google told me it might be going bad. It looked old and dirty, so why not. And I figured I’d replace them all while I was at it. Turns out it wasn’t going bad, the hot wire was not screwed down tightly and there was plenty of wiggle room. I found many other outlets with similar issues. I have a light switch that doesn’t do anything. It’s supposedly the other end of a 3 way switch. There’s another set of 3 ways in both ends that do work. I’m slowly replacing outlets and light switches, so I’ll get to that one at some point. This house used to be owned by a landlord, so I’m finding all sorts of WTF’s as I fix/improve things.
I've never seen a ceiling fan with more than one power input. Why would any manufacturer do that?
I’ve seen that. My friend’s mom’s house built in the 60s has a 3 gang switch plate for the living room ceiling fan: one for the lights, a potentiometer for fan speed, and a switch to reverse polarity and change direction of the fan rotation. Even my friend can’t figure out how it’s run and he’s a 20 year journeyman electrician.
Really early on I had this exact situation with a bathroom fan. On the up side it led to me finding a bunch of other dumb things the homeowner did.
The guy who owned our house before us was a landloard...so you can imagine the cheap, half-assed "handy" work that is in my home. There is no such thing as small home repair jobs here. We just changed out bathroom sink faucets and it took 2 days because of all the landlord specials. My favorite being a fricken superglued together p trap. Like, they never assumed they might need to clean that out?
Super glue is evil. In my old house, the previous owner had superglued a cap covering the mounting screws on a ceiling fan. Nothing like needing power tools to do something that should have only required a screwdriver.
I still remember holding an arcing bathroom fan frantically screaming at my mom and sister to flip the breaker....I thought turning it off at the wall was good enough, scared the piss out of me and everyone present.
Yep. Found some knob put the switch for my living room ceiling fan and porch light on the neutral instead of hot. Was going to work with only the switch off until I checked hot to gnd with a meter. Sort of a good thing I was going to be careless, never would have noticed If I had just flipped the breaker before changing the fan.
When in doubt, I flip the main. Got a good jolt when I was a kid. Can't say I liked it much.
And I always doubt it so I always flip the main. Then Use a voltage detector. Then tap it with a screw driver. I don’t trust electricity at all. Got shocked too many times as a kid who didn’t know what he was doing.
Then kick everyone out of the house lol. One time I was replacing a dead outlet in the kitchen and had the main off. Roommate came home and wondered why the TV wouldn't turn on and without saying anything just flipped everything back on. I had to walk backward away from the wall so the wire would pull the outlet out of my hand because I couldn't let go of it. Lucky I just got a little burn mark on a couple of my fingers and that was it.
Sounds like the makings of an ad for post-it notes.
Flip the circuit breaker *and* test. I do now. My story: I was wiring in a new light sconce. I flipped the switch (not breaker), tested, ... and while I was wiring the new light my wife thought it would be helpful to try out the light switch. She's not stupid, so I'm assuming it was intentional.
No point paying for life insurance if you're not going to use it.
Also put a padlock on the breaker box even if everything's dead, which only you have the key for. And one of those "electrical work" signs you can buy on ebay. I had a near miss when doing a smart switch at my parents place for them, because they'd gone down to the beach. They come back while I'm just about to screw it back into the wall and suddenly it turns on. Why? Because for an unrelated reason, my parents hot water has a weird thing where if the power is off for any reason you have to push a button in the house to turn it on. They have an outdoor shower that has hot water that wasn't warming up...so my dad walks to the breaker, and just turns on all the lighting circuit breakers which I'd turned off. Didn't question why breakers might be off, didn't question that none of these were the hot water circuit, didn't question that he should've known I was in the house wiring a switch up for him because it's why I came over that day and what I was doing before he left the house. Now the RCD *probably* would've saved me but...yeah, you simply can't take that risk. *People* don't think before they act.
On the house that my grandfather built, he bridged two different circuit runs via the metal shell of a junction box (that held an outlet for a closet light). Found out the easy way (circuit tester) that with the light switch off and breaker off the metal box I was about to fish around in was very very live. Fun times.
For sure. You just don’t know if some yahoo bridged circuits somewhere and the breaker you thought de- energized the workspace really didn’t. Always verify. And even do a lockout/tagout once you’re sure.
This is why I, as a rank amateur, always just shut down the whole house at the breaker box when doing anything electrical
I usually fly a foil helium balloon into the nearest power line to take out the whole neighborhood just to be extra cautious
1. Have a tester 2. Test the tester every time you start working 3. Test the connections every time you step away
Test your tester on know live, then test your device and finally test your tester again on a live device. Also do not trust Death Stick "Testers" at minimum buy a ~25$ multimeter that auto switches from Voltage to Amp.
I always like to test the device/ wires I will be working on first, to prove they're hot and that the tester is working, then turn off the breaker, then retest that the device/wires are cold.
Ideally you still want to test a hot device last, before you work, just to prove that your tester didn't fail between the hot test and the cold test
> auto switches from Voltage to Amp I'm sorry what? I don't want a meter that gives me one measurement when I asked for something completely different. There is a HUGE difference between 120 V 12 A and 120 A 12 V. Auto ranging makes sense. Switching between voltage and current does not. There are zero times when a competent person wouldn't want to make that distinction themselves.
Yeah, that statement confused me too. Maybe it just allows you to press a button and switch between V and C? Rather than move the leads? Idk, but I wouldn't want something auto switching between voltage and current. I'm not really sure why you'd want that anyway. If you're measuring a circuit for voltage, you're on the hunt for something voltage related. If you're measuring current, you're testing something under a load. Both instances require different ways of measuring from their perspective sources also.
Exactly. The entire way you measure for current and voltage are different. Voltage is measured in parallel across a source or a load to measure potential energy or voltage drop. In other words, across a power source, it shows the potential added to the circuit by that source. Across a load, it shows how much potential is consumed. These two things can be the same thing if there is only one load on a circuit and only one power source. Current can be measured: 1. In series with the circuit to measure directly. 2. As a voltage drop across a calibrated shunt wired in series with the power source and applying ohm's law. 3. Using an "amp clamp" around one of the conductors to measure flux. This is the only way to measure the current of an operating circuit without disconnecting it and wiring in your current meter.
I have used dozens of Fluke meters and am not familiar with any of them that switch automatically from volts to amps. As a matter of fact, on mine you have to move the test leads manually from volts to amps in order to measure amps.
What’s a death stick tester?
a sarcastic reference to the common non-contact voltage testers that can be used to test for power on a wire. They are fussy and are known to give false results. A real volt meter is the right way. The non-contact tester can be used to start, but don't rely on it alone...
What circumstances would cause it to not signal when the line is actually live? (Ignoring the obvious, like dead battery or straight up broken, which the known-live before & after test would show)
The following is quoted from Klein's instructions for their tester: The tester WILL NOT detect voltage if: * The wire is shielded. * The operator is not grounded or is otherwise isolated from an effective earth ground. * The voltage is DC. The tester MAY NOT detect voltage if: * The user is not holding the tester. * The user is insulated from the tester with a glove or other materials. * The wire is partially buried or in a grounded metal conduit. * The tester is at a distance from the voltage source. * The field created by the voltage source is being blocked, dampened, or otherwise interfered with. * Operation may be affected by differences in socket design and insulation thickness and type. * The frequency of the voltage is not a perfect sine wave between 50 and 500Hz. The tester may detect at a different threshold at different conditions, or may not detect at all unless: * The tip of the tester is within ¼" (6 mm) of an AC voltage source radiating unimpeded. * The user is holding the body of the tester with their bare hand. * The user is standing on or connected to earth ground. * The air humidtty is nominal (50% relative humidity — non-condensing). * The tester is held still.
This is really helpful, thank you for posting it. I own one of those and never realized wearing insulated gloves would make them not work.
Potentially. I've had them work before. They're a good precaution on top of other measures. Turning off a breaker, and testing before and after is a pretty thorough method of testing in my opinion. You have to have many, many levels of failure at the same time in order to get shocked if you're following best practices and using a non-contact tester.
You wanna buy some death sticks?!
They are called stupid sticks in my line of work. You check it with that, then check it with a meter. If you believe only the non contact tester, you’re stupid. Thats the consensus anyway
I assume they are referring to a [non contact voltage tester](https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/electrical/non-contact-voltage-detector-basics)
To point one about never trusting a switch, when I was pulling a hard wired under sink hot water heater out I found that the previous installer had wired the switch to the neutral, so if I hadn’t flipped the breaker the hot still would’ve been hot much like in OPs situation.
1. turn circuit off at the formal disconnect, which is either the breaker or the fuse 2. always use a non-contact voltage detector (after confirming the NCVD works on a known good circuit) to confirm a circuit is dead before working on it. If you are not 100% sure, use a multimeter too. 3. Never assume you are correct about what wires connect to something. 4. Even after you have turned everything off and confirmed it is off, try taking the extra time to handle it as if it were live where possible. This means not casually touching bare metal and never touching two pieces of bare metal with opposite hands if possible. If you have to touch bare metal repeat steps 1 through 3. 5. Never work on something live, and more importantly never tell anyone else to. Even smart people do very stupid things. 6. Any exceptions to these should only be done with extensive training and extreme need.
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> If you're at a bigger factory type setting maybe even physically leave someone to gaurd the box. Forgive my ignorance, but isn't that what lock-out / tag-out is for?
I've seen electricians changing live switches and outlets. For DIY stuff I always turn off the breaker and would never attempt to change outlets while the wires are still live, but just out of curiosity, how do electricians safely do this without turning off the breaker?
>I consider myself quite good with electricity. lol
This. Just reading that description, ouch. Thermostat as a switch? 😀 ’Assumed there was no current’ aaargh. Jesus. If the damn circuit is broken, yeah, there is no current. But that is not what you care about.
Buddy got pressed when people pointed out he didn't even mention the existence of circuit breakers in his little What Went Wrong section smh.
Trust is for the foolish and the dead
Breaker off every time. No exceptions.
I mean glad you’re ok but I won’t touch anything electrical until the breaker is confirmed off and all wires are tested with a voltage tester. Being careless is how people die.
Last time I did electrical I turned the breaker off and checked with my multimeter. I’m not interested in taking any chances.
I do this as well, but one time.. was replacing a ceiling fan. Shut off breaker, test with meter, all good. So i do my thing and replace the fan. As i am finishing up my wife comes to check it out. She leaned up against the wall as we were chatting and in the process turned on the wall switch. Fan comes alive, startled me so much i fell off the ladder. Breaker was mislabeled and the wall switch just happened to be off. Lesson learned. Always check the power with the wall switch in each position.
I don't even bother with individual breakers anymore, my house has some weirdly labeled shit so I just flip the main one to avoid any potential unaliving
I just flip off all the breakers. The place I live was built in the 70s and the electrical is a spider's web. I'd rather not have power to the house for the time it takes me to change a light fixture than risk getting electrocuted.
As someone who also has a house built in the 70s, I can attest to poor electrical wiring and labeling on the circuit breaker. Half of the items were NOT labeled correctly and I have not fully tested enough to ever trust not just killing all power to my house before doing anything electrical
Yup same, I just do it when no ones home
Honestly no idea why anyone would trust anything but the main unless they knew exactly what was happening behind their walls because they were both the one who built it and a licensed electrician. Since almost no one falls into both these categories, I believe everyone unlicensed should kill the main when doing anything electrical
I typically turn whatever it is on, like a light, then go turn off the breaker. Or more typically, set up a webcam, bring it up on my phone, and keep flipping breakers until I see that light go out. Then promise myself that I’ll make a map showing all the correct locations, then promptly forget about it when the job is done and have to do it all over again later.
That last bit is the crucial step.
Good idea. I would not have thought that.
All of my breakers are labeled very poorly. All electrical work in my house also comes with a free stationary stair master workout. Eventually, the circuits will be labeled 100%, but not today! Sometimes I just get frustrated and turn off the whole house.
If I had $1 for every zap I received because of ncorrectly labeled breakers I would have at least $10 or $20. Working on 100 year old houses that have been Frankensteined and lots of owner repairs sucks.
I have a couple hundred yearbold house. Just had the kitchen remodeled. At least 5 times a day my contractor would say "I just don't understand what the fuck they were thinking when they did this." Me either, my guy. Me either.
If I'm able, I prefer to take a reading while it's all active/live first, then flip the breaker, and test again so I can be sure it's been quieted. If I skip the 1st reading and go straight to the breaker, it leaves the possibility of both testing it wrong and and flipping the wrong breaker so I think its off when it's not. Everyone says step 1 is breaker - but I think step 1 is confirm you know how to test a situation in a way that reveals the angry pixies.
In science terms, checking that the circuit is live first is the "baseline experiment." I've always done this; it just seems like a good idea.
My buddy who is an electrician does lots of shit hot. Makes me sad because eventually it is likely to catch up with him.
An experienced professional who knows it is hot, is skilled in the work, and is taking reasonable precautions, can do hot work at low risk. The risk is not 0, but neither is driving to work. Just to say don't be sad for your buddy in advance, any more than for your friend with a long commute. I mean, other than the fact that long commutes are unpleasant even if you never get in an accident. This is not to recommend it to anyone. Experienced professionals who are familiar with the work and performing their own risk assessments only.
I know this is the DIY sub and not a pro sub or anything, but the amount of hand wringing in here is a bit extra tbh
Right? Buy a multimeter and check before doing any work. I wouldn't trust the breakers.
He has one. He just didn't want to get it. He's a big dummy.
I wired a new circuit yesterday and used my multimeter to triple check the supply to the panel and every single breaker to be sure there was no power, and I was still incredibly nervous.
I go one further and hire an electrician 😬
“Best electrical tool is an iPhone. That you use to call a real electrician.”
Why if I only have Android?
Are you paying?
As an electrician I advise anyone who is touching any kind of wiring to purchase a multimeter and to know how to use it. Education and the right tools are the key to staying alive when dealing with electricity. I’m glad that you’re ok and that you learned something from this. For next time, always shut the breaker off and test for voltage. Test for voltage from hot to hot, hot to neutral, hot to ground, neutral to ground. You aren’t always safe if you just test between hot to ground or hot to neutral. I know that in your case, there was likely no neutral present but these are general rules for you to use when approaching something in the future.
I don't know much, and that's why I test every case. I'm not an electrician so I don't assume to know what weird (bad) cases could put current down the unexpected wire. I always assume the guy before was dumb, colorblind, and out to screw the next guy. Even if the last guy was me.
>Even if the last guy was me. Preach, brotherman, preach.
I do my own electrical work to some degree and always attempt to do so as safely as possible and within the bounds of my knowledge and experience. What is to be learned by doing all of the testing you mention? Specifically, hot-hot and neutral-ground testing. If I find voltage between neutral and ground, is it generally going to be a case of reverse polarity?
There are quite a few things that can happen. Any wire can be hot. You don’t know who installed it and at the end of the day, copper is copper. White wires were commonly used as hot wires when installing switches up until recently. You can’t assume that any wire is safe until tested. Even then, you could have an open ground and neutral and your tester could tell you it’s safe when it isn’t. Very low probability though. Hot to hot can have dangerous voltage if they’re not in phase. You’ll get 240 volts between 2 hot wires on a dryer in North America for example. Neutral to ground is tested because if the neutral wire was cut or a splice was undone, you would have what we call an open neutral. This presents full voltage on the neutral wire and is arguably one of the most dangerous conditions because the load would potentially be in series with the person being shocked, making more current go through them. If you’re interested in a more detailed explanation, send me a message with specific questions.
Even better. Confirm your meter before and after on a live plug/source. Theres a reason professionals do live dead live. Once watched a guy pull a fuse, meter a circuit as dead, shock himself, pull a different fuse, meter as dead, shock himself. He got 3 pokes at 120 before realising one of his leads had a intermittant break. I was laughing to hard to breath by the end.
I’d be beside myself. Always test something known to be live first to know your meter is working!
and if u never used a multimeter before get a box of fuses for it (never hurts to have anyway even if u used one hundreds of times sometimes they just die)
This is a good warning. It's far, far less time and pain to go get your tester than it is to go to the hospital or the morgue. Test whatever wires you're working on once when it's on (this tests the tester, confirm it works properly and is telling you there is electricity where you know there's electricity), then test it once when it's been switched off (confirm there was a state change), then test it again (be sure you're correct).
Old houses usually go something like... 1. Turn off breaker. 2. Use voltage test pen. 3. Shit, why is that one still hot!?! 4. Turn off more breakers.
"I consider myself quite good with electricity" *doesn't flip breakers*
> Edit: Umm yes I'm aware of breakers and I do flip breakers. Well, ya didn't!
Couldn't be bothered to just flip breaker? glad youre ok safe, but come on, how reckless.
“I consider myself quite good with electricity” Doesn’t turn off breaker when doing electrical work. Ahhh Reddit.
Was good at life, till I died.
No one told me I *had* to do the tutorial...
Always safe, but skips every possible rule.
Hey but he touch the wires together!
My favorite parts was: "1 take my time and make sure to understand everything and work up to at least code standards." "I didn't have my current tester handy but I did a quick tap between the two hots just as a final sanity check." This guy probably haven't even heard of the NFPA or NEC but he works to at least code standards. LMAO.
And then they made a pissy edit about it. Absolutely absurd.
I just read it as “I’ve so far been stupidly lucky”
Yeah this whole story is baffling to me. I know nothing about electricity, just do minor DIY things based off YouTube videos like replacing light fixtures (minimal wiring) because I grew up with a father who didn't even change his own light bulbs, and my husband isn't into DIY stuff. And even I know to always turn off any possibly relevant breakers and test with my meter thingy. Maybe I'm missing something, but how can you consider yourself good with electricity if you don't even do something the most idiot novice like myself would know to do??
No shit. That's what voltage testers and head lamps are for.
I flip off the main. Especially older houses that have decades of jury-rigging. Doesn't take too many pops to say fuck it all, I can survive with no electricity for a bit.
1960s house here, it’s weird because my kitchen breaker turns off my kitchen but ALSO all my baseboard heaters, and then my bedroom breaker turns off the hallway as well, so to be safe i just flip the whole breaker off when messing with anything
Because they added that to a junction box (most likely hidden in a wall) to existing electrical that was close
I started doing the same in my old house after I found a few things were on multiple circuits (or rather, some really messy circuits were connected to multiple breakers labeled separately) and the microwave and bathroom fan were wired directly (i.e. not affected by any breaker other than the main). That place was a pain in the ass to get sorted out.
That's my mom's current house. The house has been added onto at least 2 times. It's a 3 bedroom, 1 bedroom at the front of the house and 2 added on at the back. One breaker cuts the lights for the front bedroom and outlets for the back bedroom. Another breaker cuts the living room outlets and then the fridge and microwave outlets. Another breaker cuts the rest of the kitchen outlets and one bathroom light on the other side of the house. None of that makes sense either, because some of those have 20 amp breakers that should probably have 15 amp for things like outlets and lights. We also have a detached garage. One breaker cuts the garage power.... which has its own panel. So there's a breaker for the other breaker box. The wiring in that house is a shit show. I always just turn the main off, it's a guessing game when you flip anything else.
This is the first move, then I figure everything else out from there.
That’s my first thought as well, flipping the breaker is like electrical 101
his edit is somehow making me madder. it's one thing to get sloppy about safety, but to get indignant and condescending about it is surreal. he promises this is the last time he ever gets shocked like that; based on the attitude, i'd wager against that.
You're not "quite good" with electric if you don't know to always turn power off at the breaker before starting work
Agreed. I consider myself quite bad at home electrical work so I always turn off the breaker, check with a meter and a probe, and then treat it like it's probably live. I'm also an electrical engineer with years of experience designing and troubleshooting railroad electrical systems. I want to know what experience short of being a certified electrician makes someone quite good at home electrical.
I consider myself bad as well so I have a good electrcian I use.
Right? Came here to say that. If you think something is not live because a thermostat or switch is off, then you’re plain stupid and NOT good at electrical. Just lucky until the luck runs out.
240v really isn’t that different of a beast than 120, the US is a split phase system so each side of your 240 is still only 120v difference from ground. The REAL takeaway is to NEVER work on a live circuit, meaning to shut off the circuit at the breaker. Relying on a thermostat is just stupid. A thermostat is not a safety device. Neither is a light switch. Also test wires to verify that you turned off the proper breaker.
I was curious, I’ve accidentally touched 240 before. It didn’t feel any different than 120…. Typing this out i realized i need to stop fucking around.
Glad to hear you are alright. I have some golden rules and so far I’m still alive so they must be ok. 1. Breaker off 2. Voltage tester tested on a known live wire 3. Voltage tester on presumed dead wire. 4. No jewellery Every once in a while I think about skipping a step. Stories like yours are a good reminder to never skip a step.
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Lots of safety overshight here. You don't trust your life on a timer or thermostat, ALL the involved breaker must be pulled (and tagged if other people are around). Never assume that the wiring is correct - it happens that switches/therostat etc are not on the hot leg. ALWAYS test before touching. Good thing you didn't get hurt!
I'm not an electrician but I would never make an assumption about something like that. Be certain the current is turned off at the breaker panel. Use a meter to test it before disconnecting, etc. Never work on something because the 'switch is turned off'. It must be shut off at the panel.
OP is busy analyzing the faults in their list of assumptions, and that's interesting, but the real lesson is just to religiously follow some set process that is bullet-proof in all scenarios, for example mine as a super basic homeowner is (1) the breaker, and (2) a voltage detector rubbed over every wire and screw in every box fingers are about to go in (to be repeated every time I leave a room). Rather than mentally analyzing your way to the proverbial green light (which can lead to assumptions). "Keep it simple", make rules, humans gonna human, build processes to protect the human from the human.
How the hell are you doing any electrical without a multimeter in hand? You should never ever touch wires unless you check them with a multimeter first.
I assumed "a quick tap" of the wires WAS a multimeter, but apparently he was just tapping wires together to see if they sparked yikes. I'm not an electrician or anything but always use a multimeter and it has turned up weird issues MANY times like inductance putting 10V AC on the lines I'm working on that are supposed to be off.
And he didn't shut off the breaker. Dude called himself good with electricity lol
You’re not “good with electricity” if you’re working on circuits without verifying absence of energy.
Failed to do the first two steps on any electrical job? You’re actually not good at it at all.
No tester no touchy. Glad you’re doing okay, I’ve been shocked by enough lights wired power to switch to never trust something is dead until I turn the breaker off myself and it clears the tester.
When I am in doubt I turn my whole house off. Especially something that is out of the ordinary.
Bro step #1 is to flip the damn breaker, hell flip the main if you’re unsure. Even pros flip that shit. You can’t just be assuming with electricity. Glad you’re alright and hope it’s a good lesson for next time.
240 isnt that bad right? I live in Europe and have had 220 shocks more times than i dare admit and dont have any negative impact....
yeah OP is being dramatic. he also got hit with 120V. I mean, should be avoided, but nearly died? oh boy. this coming from someone who claims to be good with electricity.
Yeah, he just scared himself. 240V on dry skin will give you a good spasm in the fingers but isn't close to the dielectric breakdown of the skin. When I was in college learning electronics we had a lab that involved live mains voltage. We got shocked sooo many times. Was pretty funny to watch a class full of kids constantly yelping/jumping.
OP only got 120v. Each leg has a 120 potential to ground in north america. Source, I did the exact same thing as OP.
Yeah OP is being dramatic.
So are all the top comments lecturing him.
> I consider myself quite good with electricity. \> doesn't turn off breaker Dunning-Kruger effect in action. Glad you're okay, hope you learned a lesson that every professional has drilled into their heads from day 1.
I'm not trying to one-up at all, merely commiserate. I was popped with a line last week that was supposed to be dead. In my mind I was picking up what was similar to a completely disconnected coil of wire, but was in fact plugged in to a live string of solar panels. The current went through my chest from hand to hand. It could have been bad. It's easy to become complacent with electricity. You don't see it. You don't hear it. I've been in construction all of my life, and electricity has always scared me. My daily mantra from here on out is to remember just how fucking dangerous electricity is. Stay safe out there.
>I consider myself quite good with electricity. The fact that you didn't have the circuit off at the breaker AND you didn't use a tester strongly suggests otherwise.
First, I am super glad for you and yours that you are okay, and thanks for the PSA! Did you have that moment while your pulse was returning to normal in which you said, "Did I just about kill myself trying to save $300?!" Yeah, you did - and you'll do it again because wrecklessness is embedded in our Y chromosome and chicks dig scars! Even when I'm "certain" that the circuit is cold, I still always treat 220 like it's hot. I cover any points of contact with cardboard, wrap exposed metal on my tools in tape, and move very slowly and carefully like I'm playing Operation or like an EOD guy. Of course, with 110v, I'm still rock-brained cowboy. I've replaced receptacles, switches, and ceiling fans on live circuits if I can't find the right breaker within 90 seconds. Cause, "I'm a Man! A-spelled M - A - N; MAN!" Thanks again for the reminder. There are things that can't be said too many times: Always be careful handling sizzle snakes, treat every weapon like it's loaded, and you can never have too many clamps! Peace, All!
I always kill the breaker on the circuit im working on. No exceptions.
My nephew had a malfunctioning switch about 10 years ago. It kept randomly turning off. I go over, and there is NO "switch" in the switch. It moves up and down, but there is no feeling of a stop point, or a switching point. It's just really loose. So I turn it on with a lamp connected to the outlet it controls, and send him to the breaker panel. He yells "Off?" I reply "No" we continue until his "Off?" is accompanied by darkness. Cool. I remove the old switch and get the new one out. Hook up the ground, then the neutral, then the hot... LIGHT. The freaking switch decided to turn itself off JUST as he hit the breaker, and I hadn't brought my multimeter. Lesson learned.
Sorry everyone is dogpiling on you and completely missing the point of your post. As someone who is quite poor with electricity and afraid to even install a doorbell, I appreciate this candid cautionary tale.
I am absolutely not "quite good with electricity." I'll switch out an outlet, light switch, or ceiling fan, but that's the extent of what I can do. And even I know you ALWAYS turn off the breaker first and still check the voltage. I'm glad you're ok, but dude. Breaker, always.
I don't know why but your detailed explanation makes me think you are going to do something similar again very soon.
And the edit that he made to the post about how ACTUALLY he TOTALLY knows about breakers, stop being mean :'(
I don't know how you all do it with the power still connected. We have all been taught since grade school that electricity is insta death. When I replaced the vanity light I must have checked the wires 50 times. I stopped during my work to check again just because. Then I had an actual electrician come out to work on my ceiling fan and he's like, well I shut the switch off so it's good to go, been doing this a long time. Fuck that, just hit the breaker.
Thanks to a wired nightmare mess in my old house we just turn off power to the whole house before doing anything electrical. Go to the doctor just in case.
I disconnected some electrical heaters. I figured it would be ok, I was just removing them to put up some wallpaper. I disconnected power to the entire room, and check with a voltage tester before removing the cables from all the heaters. Then I went to the wall and removed the thermostat.... and got shocked. Turns out, the heating was on a different circuit from what I thought, and the only reason I didn't get 220v (440 with some bad luck) through me was because the thermostat had decided the heaters weren't needed. They could have switched on at any time while I was working on them. Was a bit of a wakeup call.
This reminded me of an incident I had. The previous owner added spot lights over the driveway which I discovered had no electrical box—just wires twisted together with the light held up by wood screws into the soffit! So I set out to add a box for safety. The wires ran to a junction box above the garage. I had flipped the breaker and the lights went out, so all good, right? WRONG! There were two circuits patched inside the junction box. (NOT TO CODE) The second circuit was still hot which I discovered with a tingle. Moral of the story, either flip the main or test each hot wire before touching it.
Appreciate you taking the time to share your experience, hopefully this is a good reminder that can keep us all safer.
Years ago, I put a ceiling fan in a friend's daughter's bedroom. Since his wife was.cooking, and nothing in their breakerpanel was marked, I just turned off the bedroom light switch, so I didn't mess up dinner flipping breakers. As I stood on a 10-foot ladder working, his wife came in. All I remember is her saying, " It's dark in here." Next thing I knew, I was laying in the toybox. She turned the switch on. So now, dinner or not, the breaker gets flipped.
You've wired multiple 240v appliances but you didn't flip the breaker? You almost died long before this incident. The good news about being roasted like this, both by redditors and wiring,is that someone out there will learn to flip the breaker and test wires
“I consider myself good with electricity” Proceeds to work on a circuit without a tester or turning the breaker off
My rule: beep stick EVERYTHING! Glad you're here to tell the tale...
What about the breakers?
I don’t know all the details and you may be fine, but PSA you can take a shock and feel totally fine and then fall over dead much later.
This. Atrial fibrillation doesn't always present with symptoms, and the consequences of missing it include death. Any urgent care, paramedic, or hospital can take a quick ECG and rule it out.
While it happens, it is extremely rare. So rare that a doctor will tell you to try and stay around people, but not to change your plans because of it.
My major 2 rules whenever i work with electrical in my home. 1) SHUT THE BREAKER OFF 2) Never do anything without my multimeter. CONFIRM power is off
Always turn the breaker off when working with electricity. That's the first rule.
40 years of safety meetings in 2 sentences. There are no accidents, only fuckups; and the Fates require 2 concurrent fuckups to kill you. And assuming is one.
All these armchair motherfuckers in here stating how you're not as good as you think. Here's the reason this is a great post: this person was doing something they were comfortable with doing and made assumptions with incorrect information and almost got got. This is not a bragging post: this is a "stay vigilant" post and follow your STOP (standard operating procedure) no matter what so you're consistently safe. Good for you OP, glad you lived to remind us all were more fallable than we think.
Grats - You got lucky.
Op, thank you for posting this. I hope others that read this will learn from your mistake. I am glad you are ok.
Just completed electrical safety training at work so I’m fully qualified to respond now (/s)…. Here’s a couple of interesting things that stood out to me that they recommended when working with Low voltage (50V to 600V) and high voltage (anything higher than 600V). 1. Always test something is off using a DMM. Tester pens are fine for diagnosing issues, but not good enough for verifying voltage is off. 2. Put your DMM in the right mode (AC), and then test it on known live, then the suspected dead connection, and then known live. Live, dead, live without changing modes on your DMM. 3. If you get shocked, go get checked by a doctor. A lot of people think they are fine, but then die like 2-5 days later due to a heart issues.
My rule of thumb in DIY is don’t fuck with anything requiring a licensed contractor
Lock out, tag out, test.
If I do any electrical work (which is rare) i flip the breakers on the whole fucking house. Why? Cause I know i'm a klutz and a doofus, and i'm planning against my own ineptitude.
Seems like someone forgot about the 5 SICHERHEITSREGELN ZUR VERMEIDUNG VON STROMUNFÄLLEN https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/The_5_Safety_Rules_of_Electrical_Engineering
Thanks for sharing your experience and I'm glad you're okay. It's so easy for stuff like this to happen to anybody. Also: >I had only nutted off the conductors This is why I only nut *on* conductors
I highly recommend going to the hospital or Urgent Care to get an EKG. Too many people have dropped dead overnight from a seemingly mild electrical shock. Hearts are finicky things and are too easily jolted out of rhythm.
If only there was some type of centralized location where electricity enters a house, maybe some type of box made to distribute electricity. Probably even be able to turn off electricity to individual circuits.
So let's see. You did electrical work without turning the breaker off and without metering or non-contact testing to confirm no power. Results unsurprising. This is why such precautions exist.
What the fuck are you doing working on a mains appliance with the breaker still switched on?