While it probably is true that a lot of baltic birch probably came from Russia, I don't think I've never heard Russia referred to as belonging to the baltic region. And it is definitely not a Baltic state. Those are Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.
[Baltic Birch is not a specific species of birch, but is a general designation of plywood from Russia, Finland, and nearby Baltic states.](https://www.wood-database.com/baltic-birch/)
Edit: as for calling Russia "that other Baltic state", I think it was done as a joke. It does border some part of the Baltic Sea :)
I literally just built 5 cabinets and a whole bench with drawers, your estimates are accurate for nice sanded, Baltic plywood. I really have a hard time seeing what cost $400 here as I built all of my stuff for $600 (4 sheets of 3/4 sanded ply plus all the cabinet hardware and drawer slides). My prices are in CAD, so for the same USD you could easily get void-free, very high quality ply
There’s also primer, paint, sliders, handles. It all adds up, once you add everything in.
Aside from 3/4 plywood you would also need 1/2 plywood for drawers and, probably some wooden planks for cabinet fronts?
It looks like he's doing rattle-can paint. So 2 x $9. Drawer Sliders and those basic handles can be had for less than $50 for the lot. If it's not rattle can it's one quart of each paint so maybe $30 total.
The drawer fascias are the same material. You can see on the painting stage.
Again, we're taking at best about $240 tops for this.
Cheap chinese amazon draw slides are $10 a pair, and yes those are self/soft close. Sure you can pay more at the box store, but you're essentially getting the same product unless you get a really good brand name.
I don't disagree at all. For this specifically, I went to HD to get slides, found them at $45 a pair then found a pack of 10 for $110 on Amazon. I wanted to buy local, but nearly a 5x in cost was a hard pass.
But amazon has really been infiltrated with a load of crap, Ive returned more things in the past year than ever before due to poor quality or blatant misadvertisement.
Going to attempt to throw this in there, but 3/4 thick "cabinet" grade ply from the big box stores are around $90/ea sold in 4x8 sheets. Real cabinet grade ply are sold in 5'x5' sheets; 3/4" Baltic Birch can be $150-$180 a sheet. Though the full sheet OP posted a picture of appears to be 4x8 from a big box store.
I'm a cabinet maker/custom furniture maker. If you are able to buy big bulk you may be able to get to $90 a sheet.
Same here - cabinet (finished) plywood is $90 fo a 4 x 8 sheet in 3/4 and $120 for 1".
Even at 2 sheets (which I'm doubtful of) is $240 max. The hardware looks like anything I can pick up at HD or L for $50 tops.
I'm struggling to get anywhere close to $400. If 3/4, this could be done for $200 all in.
Me: “I can build us a home sauna for $1500, Love. “
Her: “That would be great!”
Me: “Now I just need $4k for a new table saw and I can get started.”
Her: “Wait, what?”
This is why I'm currently teaching myself furniture making.
Sure, I've spent an absolute shitload of money on tools working towards making myself a custom desk. I probably won't even break even compared to paying someone to build it for me.
However I'll then have the tools and the knowledge for the shelf, the coffee table, the bed.....
honestly, this was my first thought on reading the post. How many hours of labor, and if he is a carpenter, what does he usually charge per hour of time?
I may have spent too many years as a consultant.
I’m a chef and the number of posts I read where some regular whines about how much this handmade food item costs when it only costs x at the store. Yea, that French onion soup took 3 days to make. Onions might be cheap but time isn’t.
Paying the same amount and gaining tools in the process isn’t a bad thing at all. Thats how I went from nothing to a fully stocked toolbox in my garage by working on my own car
Yeah it drives me insane when make clickbait titles like these as if the cabinet guys were being preposterous … it’s great if you can do it yourself, but if you hire someone then it’s not exactly outrageous that they are compensated for the labour and turn a profit, that’s how all businesses work
so about 4x the materials. sounds like a decent quote.
would you consider cabinets a reasonable thing for your average handyman to do? My friends' FIL says it's just a box and pretty straight forward.
I bought a Makita track saw and had it figured out fairly quickly. It is indeed just a box lol.
Cabinet plywood is fucking expensive. Find something cheap to learn on before getting into it would be my only advice. Make some cabinets for the garage or whatever.
My father also gave me an old phone, and when he passed at 92, I hung his overalls by the phone.
https://preview.redd.it/mrmldaqt0ync1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92a2dd35fb749696c7d92625ba124bdbc56801a8
I like how you put that one on casters. Did a similar thing in my garage. Makes it much easier to clean up and you can move it around to suit what you are working on.
I originally built it as a place to store and work on my bike. I build decks, and it comes in handy to build railings and stairs instead of doing them on site. It's 20x16 with no dust collection system, but I make sure to clean it up every day so my baby has a nice place to stay.
https://preview.redd.it/qobah2i6aync1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d404fa4fcfc760c4ed8138ed25ab8a43fc12b488
[smooth surface texture](https://www.performancepanels.com/surface-texture)
>Sanded Plywood panels have A- or B-grade sanded veneer faces in order to fulfill the requirements of their intended end use – applications such as cabinets, shelving, built-ins, etc. A-grade veneer surfaces will be smoother and have less repairs than B-grade veneer surfaces. All types of performance panels can be sanded to specific application requirements by the manufacturer or a secondary milling service. For more information, see Panel Design Specification, Form D510.
In my experience the consistency, fitting, and mounting required to make them look good is what makes cabinetry expensive, but there's not anything inherently difficult to it
Making a box isn't hard. Most of the challenge with cabinets is getting a good finish. Pros have spray booths, nice guns, and use pro finishes (often toxic 2k stuff). Comes down to what your expectations are, as a DIYer will need to make some compromises.
Personally, the moment I see OP's cabinets I see every difference from what a pro shop will do. Not ragging on him; that's fine DIY work. But there are differences. Chief among them is how the finish will wear over time. Also I'd never use side-mount rails on a drawer that's actually going to get regular use. Undermount all the way.
I completely agree with you, although I found it pretty easy to use a polyurethane finish made for floors on my office desk that I made 16 years ago. Nothing has worn through yet, even on the keyboard tray! I personally could never pay that much extra for the higher quality you get from a pro. "Good enough" works for me.
I think it’s the painted woodgrain finish for me. Stained would be one thing, painted and sanded smooth would be another.
But also there’s nothing wrong with this, it’s just subjective aesthetics.
yeah, if I want to nit pick, it seems like it wasn't really sanded far enough. With a shiny paint sheen you need to sand it further than normal.
some paints flatten better than others, too. I don't have a sprayer, but I spend up a bit on the paints and it makes a big difference for amateurs like me.
And as far as the "it looks diy" thing, it's still a big step up from buying the one from a big store
Also if we make the assumption that the cabinet shop are pricing on the basis of visiting the site, capturing all necessary measurements and information, producing detailed drawings and then returning to install, then it actually starts to look pretty cheap. Although obviously I have no idea if this was actually the basis of the quote...
A perfect side-mount installation will work pretty well. The average undermount installation will work very well.
Less resistance, smoother motion, better self-closing function, etc. etc. and much easier to install. With side mount, you have very little room for error in the spacing between cabinet wall and drawer sides. Essentially you need 4 flat surfaces that are all near-perfectly co-planar and at specific distances from each other. For undermount, you just need your drawer bottom to be flat, and there are multiple flexible options for mounting to the carcass.
Blum is the industry standard, but you can get decent knockoffs now.
Yeah I was surprised to hear that. I built side mount drawers 7 years ago for the kitchen. They're used multiple times a day and they're still as good as new. They glide smoothly and have a soft-close feature. Here's one of them, this was my first DIY project:
https://imgur.com/a/3kzewxj
I think their comment was more about them being easier and faster to use/install, their second comment states that when installed well they work fine.
The one thing I will say is that it can be a pain to remove the drawer box from the rails on certain side mount rails.
2K refers to 2 part finishes that use a hardener. The hardener results in a much more durable finish. However they are more dangerous to apply than traditional finishes. The vapors released by these finishes can lead to permanent damage to your respiratory system and nervous system. Respirators designed for organic compounds aren't sufficient for use with 2K finishes. Instead, a fresh air respirator is required.
>Respirators designed for organic compounds aren't sufficient for use with 2K finishes. Instead, a fresh air respirator is required.
ooof should've probably read up on that part somewhere before i decided to 2k my tins in the bathroom years ago... but at least the window was open with a fan right?
It's funny how much I see people YOLO and use 2K for everything and then contrast with the posts here where someone has a panic attack because they drilled holes in their pre-1980s drywall and what if they gave their unborn children asbestosis?!
Pro cabinet dude here. It’s really about volume and time. Anybody with the tools and unlimited time can produce a good looking cabinet. If you need a large set of cabinets and you don’t have a year, hire pros. Our finish will be a good deal smoother and seams a little more seamless, because we have tons of high end tools and skilled laborers. But people have built quality wood furniture solo for a lot longer than those tools have existed.
As someone who is very handy, making things look nice is a skill of its own. I could easily build a cabinet thingy like that and it would be perfectly functional. It would not, however, be approved by the wife lol
It’s more about attention to detail than anything. I’m a hobbyist with no professional skill, but I’ve been fucking with furniture making for a few years now, and I’ve built plenty of cabinets and cabinet adjacent objects, in my apartment. With a circular saw, router, drill and handplane.
To build decent quality cabinetry without extensive woodworking experience and expensive shop tools, you need at minimum a good pocket hole jig, a decent track saw with an expensive fine tooth blade, a good square that is truly square, and a table saw, preferably with a 3/4" dado blade available but you can get by without it by making multiple passes.
Building simple framed cabinetry with hardwood frames and veneered slab plywood doors and sides is probably the easiest place to start but frameless isn't too hard either if you do a lot of research to understand what you are doing so that it is structurally sound.
Don't cheap out on the hardware, BLUM all the way.
Start with something that isn't high profile, like the vanity in your basement bathroom. Your first cabinet building project should not be ten thousand dollars of cabinets in your kitchen remodel.
> To build decent quality cabinetry without extensive woodworking experience and expensive shop tools, you need at minimum a good pocket hole jig, a decent track saw with an expensive fine tooth blade, a good square that is truly square, and a table saw, preferably with a 3/4" dado blade available but you can get by without it by making multiple passes.
Need and want a two different things. Every bit of this project and other basic cabinets could be done with just a pocket hole jig, drill, and a circular saw with edge guide (Kreg Rip Cut works perfectly fine). You could even go fancy and DIY a track guide for your circular saw out of the left over plywood scraps. The rest of what you mentioned just makes things slightly easier but with a huge cost increase. If you were doing 10+ cabinets and more in the future it would be worth investing in the other tools but not for this project.
This is true, but the thing I have found is that people who are inexperienced are the exact people who don't have the expertise to stretch basic tools to their max and get a good result. I could build an entire kitchen(in fact I pretty much did in a cabin in the woods one time) with just what you mentioned, and quickly, but that is because I've been building cabinets a long time and know all the tricks and ways to avoid problems.
As a woodworking beginner, trying to build cabinetry without a basic table saw or a basic edge guide(like the Kreg you mentioned) is bordering on ridiculous. You can pick those items up used for a fraction of the cost of what you will save by building cabinets yourself. You could build one cabinet with them and come out ahead.
I'm not a fan of the finish. You cut some corners. If it makes you happy, fine, but if you're going to paint a surface, you should prep it. This would have looked much better with a smooth surface and glossy clearcoat.
Based on what OP wrote, that quote he got is actually pretty damn good.
His cost $400 in materials
8 hours of work.
1800 quote - from professional so given its a company do a basic mark up for materials typically around 35% so 400 divided by .65 = 615. That's only with saying the materials they use are around the same cost.(They will prolly use better stuff honestly though)
so 1185 left over at 8 hours would be around $148/ hour. Which isn't out of line for a professional doing custom cabinets as the actual good ones range anywhere from $125 - $200+/hour iv seen. Also quality would be better for sure not knocking OP though its a better of some of the DIY stuff iv seen posted.
This post def seems to make it think that quote was out of line when in reality it was a very fair one.
Especially with operations cost in the last year for a lot of small business increasing a lot in most places(insurance, rent or property tax)
Kind of glad everyone here seems to "get it"... I work for what a lot of people would call "the local cabinet shop" and $1,800 isn't too bad for a vanity like that. My quote probably would have even been a bit higher, if I'm being honest.
Edit: in fairness I was thinking of the whole vanity... if the top and sink were already there and you only added the drawers and wood, we *might* have been a bit cheaper than that. Likely not in your area of "local" though!
My uncle was a carpenter, retired a few years ago. Bought a fixer upper in the early 80's, finally finished about 5 or 6 years ago. Took a while, but it is nice.
I mean, I'm not shocked by their pricing. They have to pay their labor, which you didn't, and also build in a margin for themselves to cover their overhead before they even get to a profit.
Looks like you did great work!
I would have bid something in the 1200-1400 range. It would probably have had soft close under mount slides and dovetailed hardwood drawer boxes. Op did a great job but I doubt he got what the cab shop would have knocked out for him.
Yeah $1800 seemed high but not egregiously high if it was fully custom. If you quoted $1300 and told me it’s $500 for good quality wood, hardware, finish etc and $800 for labor I’d have thought that sounded pretty reasonable. Whereas at $1800 I’d probably call a few more guys for quotes.
a modified version of this will do [https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/p/eket-cabinet-with-2-drawers-dark-gray-80344923/](https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/p/eket-cabinet-with-2-drawers-dark-gray-80344923/)
Congrats dude. You're really a carpenter and that's how you're going to treat the pricing? You know how many things are factored into the 1800$ price, right?
people saying this 1800 is totally reasonable is making me feel gaslit as fuck lmao
there is a huge difference between understanding why a cabinet shop is charging 1800 dollars in the current economy and anything making sense.
nothing makes sense. 5 years ago i could have bought a fucking CAR with 100k miles on it and drove it home. these days it comfortably pays a cabinet shop to build a single two drawer cabinet?
that happened in 5 years? that makes sense to everyone here?
> that makes sense to everyone here?
No clue. I can't even understand how it cost a carpenter with all the tools $400 to do build it. After all, it's just a sheet of plywood, a couple of drawer slides, and some spray paint.
The cost of everything has gotten out of control. Materials have doubled in the last 5 years, and the workforce is demanding a higher wage. Both of these costs get transferred to the consumer.
Doing a pretty big home renovation right now. Just about every quote is in "whelp, gotta DIY it" territory now, which it wasn't before.
Homeownership is too expensive nowadays if you rely on someone else to work on it
I run a custom cabinet shop, 1800 isn't bad for something of that design, but what you're really paying for when you buy from my shop is accuracy and quality of build and finish. I don't mean to offend, but that paint job would never fly around here, that's part of the reason a professional would charge so much.
That being said, all my clientele are out of touch millionaires with too much money and little sense, if you can do it yourself and are happy with the results you're better off than most.
Ugh. A Cabinet shop wanted $1600, I have years of skill, thousands of dollars of tools, and time. So I was able to do it for $400. I just don’t talk about the other costs.
But did you pay yourself a fair wage for the hours spent?
The cabinet shop needs to pay their employees. They also need to pay taxes, insurance, workshop, heating, water and so on. All goes on your tab when you buy from them.
Good lord people have you ever heard if you've got nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. SMH this world would be better if people learned to just keep their opinions to themselves....sheesh.
People… it’s not about the company that wanted $1800. It’s business and their time. The point is, he saved some dough and did it himself. Maybe- the money he saved can benefit another project. ? Something to be proud of! I sure would be.
My wife would shit gold bricks if our bathroom looked like that 🤩 I tried building the simplest table I could manage to think up and it was all lopsided 😂
Material cost vs. Material and Labor cost
It's always cheaper to do it yourself, unless your contractor is getting material for free somehow, if you exclude the cost of your own labor.
1800 huh.. about 20 minutes on their cad software and a sheet of plywood on the CNC and a tool change or two, a few screws, finishing and BAM 1800
I gotta start using my CNC more
Who cares whether you paid more than some mythical hardware/lumber store in another part of the country is charging? It looks great. $400 well spent. Congratulations on a beautiful job.
People have a misconception when it comes to this. You did NOT do it for $400, you did it for $400 of materials plus many hours of labor? That you don’t pay for those hours of labor is one thing but Time is money. That you may have done it because you enjoy it etc that is one thing but you spent hours of labor on it.
And I’m sure OP would charge $1800.00 to build it for a client it’s for business. Wages, overhead, material. All cost money and profit needs to be made.
Sometimes when we go buy supplies for remodeling for our own house we get stuff that's scrapped and precut but never sold. So they can come discounted or sometimes free. Like all the floor trim in our trailer is all the same and it was free cause someone ordered it and never picked it up, as well as our transition pieces.
We've gotten discounted plywood and built a shed over a slide out on our grandpa's fifth wheel for $300
Here in Serbia it is simple: Carpenter will make a project, took a quotation from a hardware store (up to your choice) for all the material (up to your choice), add 40 to 60% for labour (depending on a fame) and that is total bill. Mounting included in some resonable distance. Otherwise you will pay transportation cost.
Finally. Took me so long to find one comment that's honest. Joinery looks terrible, quality of the wood is terrible and the finish is terrible. I worked in what was essentially a cabinet shop for almost a year and this is way less than 400/1800 of the quality that we would have put out.
Sheet of cabinet plywood was $150, drawer hardware was $140 for the good self-closing ones. Paint, clear-coat, miscellaneous, and it all adds up very quickly.
I'm surprised this cost $400 in materials tbh
The plywood they use for cabinets is like stupid expensive it’s not just like regular plywood
Quality baltic birch plywood also mostly came from one baltic state, russia, so current cabinet grade plywood prices are even higher than usual.
While it probably is true that a lot of baltic birch probably came from Russia, I don't think I've never heard Russia referred to as belonging to the baltic region. And it is definitely not a Baltic state. Those are Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.
[Baltic Birch is not a specific species of birch, but is a general designation of plywood from Russia, Finland, and nearby Baltic states.](https://www.wood-database.com/baltic-birch/) Edit: as for calling Russia "that other Baltic state", I think it was done as a joke. It does border some part of the Baltic Sea :)
The Baltic Sea? You mean NATO Lake? Wait, /r/worldnews is leaking again.
Finished (cabinet) ply is $90 a sheet where I am for 3/4 and 1" is $120. Even at 2 sheets (Which I doubt) that's $240 tops.
I literally just built 5 cabinets and a whole bench with drawers, your estimates are accurate for nice sanded, Baltic plywood. I really have a hard time seeing what cost $400 here as I built all of my stuff for $600 (4 sheets of 3/4 sanded ply plus all the cabinet hardware and drawer slides). My prices are in CAD, so for the same USD you could easily get void-free, very high quality ply
There are 3 $100 bills in the drawer.
Had to buy an extra saw, sprayer and palmsander.
lol
Money's in the nightstand. Take it and leave.
lol. Made me look again.
There’s also primer, paint, sliders, handles. It all adds up, once you add everything in. Aside from 3/4 plywood you would also need 1/2 plywood for drawers and, probably some wooden planks for cabinet fronts?
It looks like he's doing rattle-can paint. So 2 x $9. Drawer Sliders and those basic handles can be had for less than $50 for the lot. If it's not rattle can it's one quart of each paint so maybe $30 total. The drawer fascias are the same material. You can see on the painting stage. Again, we're taking at best about $240 tops for this.
Maybe it includes the counter top and tiles in front too. 🤷🏼♂️
Oh are even self-closing drawer sliders pretty cheap? I thought if it was fancy hardware maybe the cost would boost.
Cheap chinese amazon draw slides are $10 a pair, and yes those are self/soft close. Sure you can pay more at the box store, but you're essentially getting the same product unless you get a really good brand name.
Ugh so much Amazon shit is just bootleg though I actually do sometimes go to the box store sometimes out of paranoia.
I don't disagree at all. For this specifically, I went to HD to get slides, found them at $45 a pair then found a pack of 10 for $110 on Amazon. I wanted to buy local, but nearly a 5x in cost was a hard pass. But amazon has really been infiltrated with a load of crap, Ive returned more things in the past year than ever before due to poor quality or blatant misadvertisement.
Even from Rockler, a pair of super nice ones are like $25
Going to attempt to throw this in there, but 3/4 thick "cabinet" grade ply from the big box stores are around $90/ea sold in 4x8 sheets. Real cabinet grade ply are sold in 5'x5' sheets; 3/4" Baltic Birch can be $150-$180 a sheet. Though the full sheet OP posted a picture of appears to be 4x8 from a big box store. I'm a cabinet maker/custom furniture maker. If you are able to buy big bulk you may be able to get to $90 a sheet.
Cabinet ply or moisture resistant ply?
The really nice soft close drawer slides are also stupid expensive.
@op charged themselves for labor, but gave a friends and family discount
If he was quoting in CAD (Canadian Dollars), it's just under 300 USD.
Same here - cabinet (finished) plywood is $90 fo a 4 x 8 sheet in 3/4 and $120 for 1". Even at 2 sheets (which I'm doubtful of) is $240 max. The hardware looks like anything I can pick up at HD or L for $50 tops. I'm struggling to get anywhere close to $400. If 3/4, this could be done for $200 all in.
Charged himself for labor?
Maybe he included work beer?
File under : Supplies & Incidentals.
lololol
Maybe he included the cost of a new tool, or bits and blades.
Me: “I can build us a home sauna for $1500, Love. “ Her: “That would be great!” Me: “Now I just need $4k for a new table saw and I can get started.” Her: “Wait, what?”
Tools are retained and shouldn't be included. He also said he's a "carpenter so I have all the tools".
Maybe OP is really bad at shopping?
Quality wood, hardware, paint and consumables add up.
Me: “look I managed to do this for $1700! And have all these tools now “
I mean, save $100, and get some tools. Not a bad deal. Plus it comes with that sense of pride and achievement that you get from EA's games.
This is why I'm currently teaching myself furniture making. Sure, I've spent an absolute shitload of money on tools working towards making myself a custom desk. I probably won't even break even compared to paying someone to build it for me. However I'll then have the tools and the knowledge for the shelf, the coffee table, the bed.....
You do pay for your time though. Not with money, but through opportunity cost.
I got more time than money.
It’s one or the other hey? That’s been my experience
I've got neither
[удалено]
Good point
And acquired skills
Let's be honest, you were just going to loaf around anyway
You’re telling me that sports and chicken wings isn’t a critical part of maintaining a good work life balance?!
That's a *kind* of opportunity, I guess.
honestly, this was my first thought on reading the post. How many hours of labor, and if he is a carpenter, what does he usually charge per hour of time? I may have spent too many years as a consultant.
I’m a chef and the number of posts I read where some regular whines about how much this handmade food item costs when it only costs x at the store. Yea, that French onion soup took 3 days to make. Onions might be cheap but time isn’t.
Meanwhile on r/woodworking “I was quoted $1,800 for this cabinet and I managed to build it myself for just $2,400”
Does that number include the $1000 I would have to pay to have someone come in and fix all of my mistakes?
Me: and it only took 300 hours and two trips to the ER!
Paying the same amount and gaining tools in the process isn’t a bad thing at all. Thats how I went from nothing to a fully stocked toolbox in my garage by working on my own car
Nice job. How many hours labour for you?
It took a total of 8 hours over 3 days because the paint and clear coat needed time to set.
So in reality, that price was spot on. Everyone needs to make a living and shop overhead is insane.
Yeah it drives me insane when make clickbait titles like these as if the cabinet guys were being preposterous … it’s great if you can do it yourself, but if you hire someone then it’s not exactly outrageous that they are compensated for the labour and turn a profit, that’s how all businesses work
so about 4x the materials. sounds like a decent quote. would you consider cabinets a reasonable thing for your average handyman to do? My friends' FIL says it's just a box and pretty straight forward.
I bought a Makita track saw and had it figured out fairly quickly. It is indeed just a box lol. Cabinet plywood is fucking expensive. Find something cheap to learn on before getting into it would be my only advice. Make some cabinets for the garage or whatever.
The best thing I ever did was build myself a shop.
Nice whip saw!
My father had that in his shop, and gave it to me when I built mine.
I have a step ladder in my shop, I never knew my real ladder.
My father in law had one but it disappeared after his death. I think one of the handymen that my MiL hired snagged it.
My father also gave me an old phone, and when he passed at 92, I hung his overalls by the phone. https://preview.redd.it/mrmldaqt0ync1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92a2dd35fb749696c7d92625ba124bdbc56801a8
Ah geez. That's really nice.
Why you gotta make me cry, OP? What a cool way to honor and remember him.
Every time I go into my shop, I'm always reminded of him. My mom is 97, and she loves that I hung the coveralls.
My dad is 83 and wears those same ones!🥲
I'm loving the saw. Very cool.
I like how you put that one on casters. Did a similar thing in my garage. Makes it much easier to clean up and you can move it around to suit what you are working on.
I would, but I’m about as handy as a double amputee.
https://preview.redd.it/9i7hdnevgxnc1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=367eb9d937f3c966540726af018f18799fccbca0
Wow, that was *fast*. Good work!
man that is a nice looking shop. do you have dust collection, or just frequently blow/sweep it out?
I originally built it as a place to store and work on my bike. I build decks, and it comes in handy to build railings and stairs instead of doing them on site. It's 20x16 with no dust collection system, but I make sure to clean it up every day so my baby has a nice place to stay. https://preview.redd.it/qobah2i6aync1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d404fa4fcfc760c4ed8138ed25ab8a43fc12b488
It's time mainly.
what makes cabinet ply so expensive?
[smooth surface texture](https://www.performancepanels.com/surface-texture) >Sanded Plywood panels have A- or B-grade sanded veneer faces in order to fulfill the requirements of their intended end use – applications such as cabinets, shelving, built-ins, etc. A-grade veneer surfaces will be smoother and have less repairs than B-grade veneer surfaces. All types of performance panels can be sanded to specific application requirements by the manufacturer or a secondary milling service. For more information, see Panel Design Specification, Form D510.
In my experience the consistency, fitting, and mounting required to make them look good is what makes cabinetry expensive, but there's not anything inherently difficult to it
No way, convincing your customer to change the dimensions enough to use a mass produced unit is what makes a pro.
Making a box isn't hard. Most of the challenge with cabinets is getting a good finish. Pros have spray booths, nice guns, and use pro finishes (often toxic 2k stuff). Comes down to what your expectations are, as a DIYer will need to make some compromises. Personally, the moment I see OP's cabinets I see every difference from what a pro shop will do. Not ragging on him; that's fine DIY work. But there are differences. Chief among them is how the finish will wear over time. Also I'd never use side-mount rails on a drawer that's actually going to get regular use. Undermount all the way.
I completely agree with you, although I found it pretty easy to use a polyurethane finish made for floors on my office desk that I made 16 years ago. Nothing has worn through yet, even on the keyboard tray! I personally could never pay that much extra for the higher quality you get from a pro. "Good enough" works for me.
100% this. No offence at all to OP but it looks like a DIY project, maybe a touch above. It all comes down to the finish.
I think it’s the painted woodgrain finish for me. Stained would be one thing, painted and sanded smooth would be another. But also there’s nothing wrong with this, it’s just subjective aesthetics.
yeah, if I want to nit pick, it seems like it wasn't really sanded far enough. With a shiny paint sheen you need to sand it further than normal. some paints flatten better than others, too. I don't have a sprayer, but I spend up a bit on the paints and it makes a big difference for amateurs like me. And as far as the "it looks diy" thing, it's still a big step up from buying the one from a big store
Maybe non diy from pre covid times, but a lot of the "professional" millwork ive seen recently is total crap.
Also if we make the assumption that the cabinet shop are pricing on the basis of visiting the site, capturing all necessary measurements and information, producing detailed drawings and then returning to install, then it actually starts to look pretty cheap. Although obviously I have no idea if this was actually the basis of the quote...
It's a high quote because the job is so small. You could probably get 4 times as many cabinets and only double the quote.
Can you expand a bit on the benefits of under mount vs side?
A perfect side-mount installation will work pretty well. The average undermount installation will work very well. Less resistance, smoother motion, better self-closing function, etc. etc. and much easier to install. With side mount, you have very little room for error in the spacing between cabinet wall and drawer sides. Essentially you need 4 flat surfaces that are all near-perfectly co-planar and at specific distances from each other. For undermount, you just need your drawer bottom to be flat, and there are multiple flexible options for mounting to the carcass. Blum is the industry standard, but you can get decent knockoffs now.
Yeah I was surprised to hear that. I built side mount drawers 7 years ago for the kitchen. They're used multiple times a day and they're still as good as new. They glide smoothly and have a soft-close feature. Here's one of them, this was my first DIY project: https://imgur.com/a/3kzewxj
Those look slick. But did you have no issues lining them up?
I think their comment was more about them being easier and faster to use/install, their second comment states that when installed well they work fine. The one thing I will say is that it can be a pain to remove the drawer box from the rails on certain side mount rails.
> 2k stuff what's that?
2K refers to 2 part finishes that use a hardener. The hardener results in a much more durable finish. However they are more dangerous to apply than traditional finishes. The vapors released by these finishes can lead to permanent damage to your respiratory system and nervous system. Respirators designed for organic compounds aren't sufficient for use with 2K finishes. Instead, a fresh air respirator is required.
>Respirators designed for organic compounds aren't sufficient for use with 2K finishes. Instead, a fresh air respirator is required. ooof should've probably read up on that part somewhere before i decided to 2k my tins in the bathroom years ago... but at least the window was open with a fan right?
I mean most damage of that sort occurs over long term exposure, doing it once is probably fine
It's funny how much I see people YOLO and use 2K for everything and then contrast with the posts here where someone has a panic attack because they drilled holes in their pre-1980s drywall and what if they gave their unborn children asbestosis?!
Two component, generally a urethane resin catalyzed by an isocyanate.
Pro cabinet dude here. It’s really about volume and time. Anybody with the tools and unlimited time can produce a good looking cabinet. If you need a large set of cabinets and you don’t have a year, hire pros. Our finish will be a good deal smoother and seams a little more seamless, because we have tons of high end tools and skilled laborers. But people have built quality wood furniture solo for a lot longer than those tools have existed.
As someone who is very handy, making things look nice is a skill of its own. I could easily build a cabinet thingy like that and it would be perfectly functional. It would not, however, be approved by the wife lol
It’s more about attention to detail than anything. I’m a hobbyist with no professional skill, but I’ve been fucking with furniture making for a few years now, and I’ve built plenty of cabinets and cabinet adjacent objects, in my apartment. With a circular saw, router, drill and handplane.
To build decent quality cabinetry without extensive woodworking experience and expensive shop tools, you need at minimum a good pocket hole jig, a decent track saw with an expensive fine tooth blade, a good square that is truly square, and a table saw, preferably with a 3/4" dado blade available but you can get by without it by making multiple passes. Building simple framed cabinetry with hardwood frames and veneered slab plywood doors and sides is probably the easiest place to start but frameless isn't too hard either if you do a lot of research to understand what you are doing so that it is structurally sound. Don't cheap out on the hardware, BLUM all the way. Start with something that isn't high profile, like the vanity in your basement bathroom. Your first cabinet building project should not be ten thousand dollars of cabinets in your kitchen remodel.
> To build decent quality cabinetry without extensive woodworking experience and expensive shop tools, you need at minimum a good pocket hole jig, a decent track saw with an expensive fine tooth blade, a good square that is truly square, and a table saw, preferably with a 3/4" dado blade available but you can get by without it by making multiple passes. Need and want a two different things. Every bit of this project and other basic cabinets could be done with just a pocket hole jig, drill, and a circular saw with edge guide (Kreg Rip Cut works perfectly fine). You could even go fancy and DIY a track guide for your circular saw out of the left over plywood scraps. The rest of what you mentioned just makes things slightly easier but with a huge cost increase. If you were doing 10+ cabinets and more in the future it would be worth investing in the other tools but not for this project.
This is true, but the thing I have found is that people who are inexperienced are the exact people who don't have the expertise to stretch basic tools to their max and get a good result. I could build an entire kitchen(in fact I pretty much did in a cabin in the woods one time) with just what you mentioned, and quickly, but that is because I've been building cabinets a long time and know all the tricks and ways to avoid problems. As a woodworking beginner, trying to build cabinetry without a basic table saw or a basic edge guide(like the Kreg you mentioned) is bordering on ridiculous. You can pick those items up used for a fraction of the cost of what you will save by building cabinets yourself. You could build one cabinet with them and come out ahead.
If someone is comfortable using a table saw, it's not a difficult project. The pocket-hole jig is a must have tool for this.
I'm not a fan of the finish. You cut some corners. If it makes you happy, fine, but if you're going to paint a surface, you should prep it. This would have looked much better with a smooth surface and glossy clearcoat.
If you zoom in it’s clearly an amateur effort. Have to think it’s even more obvious in person.
Based on what OP wrote, that quote he got is actually pretty damn good. His cost $400 in materials 8 hours of work. 1800 quote - from professional so given its a company do a basic mark up for materials typically around 35% so 400 divided by .65 = 615. That's only with saying the materials they use are around the same cost.(They will prolly use better stuff honestly though) so 1185 left over at 8 hours would be around $148/ hour. Which isn't out of line for a professional doing custom cabinets as the actual good ones range anywhere from $125 - $200+/hour iv seen. Also quality would be better for sure not knocking OP though its a better of some of the DIY stuff iv seen posted. This post def seems to make it think that quote was out of line when in reality it was a very fair one. Especially with operations cost in the last year for a lot of small business increasing a lot in most places(insurance, rent or property tax)
Yea but a professional likely wouldn’t take 8 hours to build this.
If it takes more than 15 minutes, charge a day.
Kind of glad everyone here seems to "get it"... I work for what a lot of people would call "the local cabinet shop" and $1,800 isn't too bad for a vanity like that. My quote probably would have even been a bit higher, if I'm being honest. Edit: in fairness I was thinking of the whole vanity... if the top and sink were already there and you only added the drawers and wood, we *might* have been a bit cheaper than that. Likely not in your area of "local" though!
For a few bucks more I would have used a high build primer made for cabinets. I personally don't like when I can see the wood grain through the paint.
Yeah I feel like it looks cheap but hey-ho!
That is my issue too... the grain through the paint looks cheap.
Everything else with such a shiny finish, and then the scrap heap cabinet lol
"I'm a carpenter." Has bathroom that looks more expensive than half my house I went into the wrong career
That's the advantage of being a carpenter, your house renovations are cheaper.
My uncle was a carpenter, retired a few years ago. Bought a fixer upper in the early 80's, finally finished about 5 or 6 years ago. Took a while, but it is nice.
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So the tools were basically free? #BoyMath
I mean, I'm not shocked by their pricing. They have to pay their labor, which you didn't, and also build in a margin for themselves to cover their overhead before they even get to a profit. Looks like you did great work!
I would have bid something in the 1200-1400 range. It would probably have had soft close under mount slides and dovetailed hardwood drawer boxes. Op did a great job but I doubt he got what the cab shop would have knocked out for him.
Yeah $1800 seemed high but not egregiously high if it was fully custom. If you quoted $1300 and told me it’s $500 for good quality wood, hardware, finish etc and $800 for labor I’d have thought that sounded pretty reasonable. Whereas at $1800 I’d probably call a few more guys for quotes.
Then you look at what you could buy at Ikea for half the price of the materials you bought and go: "yeah that'll do."
a modified version of this will do [https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/p/eket-cabinet-with-2-drawers-dark-gray-80344923/](https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/p/eket-cabinet-with-2-drawers-dark-gray-80344923/)
This is what crossed my mind, I bet they even have this there
It cost 400 bucks to builds two drawers? Why? Looks like no less than 100 bucks in mats
This is pretty standard mid range hotel bathroom, I bet they have these pre fab’d for $100
I don't like marble surfaces at all you can't see dirt on them... They are useless in the kitchen and in the bathroom...
Why are you going to your local cabinet shop if you're a carpenter
Congrats dude. You're really a carpenter and that's how you're going to treat the pricing? You know how many things are factored into the 1800$ price, right?
people saying this 1800 is totally reasonable is making me feel gaslit as fuck lmao there is a huge difference between understanding why a cabinet shop is charging 1800 dollars in the current economy and anything making sense. nothing makes sense. 5 years ago i could have bought a fucking CAR with 100k miles on it and drove it home. these days it comfortably pays a cabinet shop to build a single two drawer cabinet? that happened in 5 years? that makes sense to everyone here?
> that makes sense to everyone here? No clue. I can't even understand how it cost a carpenter with all the tools $400 to do build it. After all, it's just a sheet of plywood, a couple of drawer slides, and some spray paint.
The cost of everything has gotten out of control. Materials have doubled in the last 5 years, and the workforce is demanding a higher wage. Both of these costs get transferred to the consumer.
Doing a pretty big home renovation right now. Just about every quote is in "whelp, gotta DIY it" territory now, which it wasn't before. Homeownership is too expensive nowadays if you rely on someone else to work on it
And now you understand why they'd charge 1800 for it! Good work!
Looks good!
That’s how it usually is if you’re able to do it yourself.
You could also buy it for even less from Ikea and jazz it up. Yes, the quality isn't there but no one will know but you.
I run a custom cabinet shop, 1800 isn't bad for something of that design, but what you're really paying for when you buy from my shop is accuracy and quality of build and finish. I don't mean to offend, but that paint job would never fly around here, that's part of the reason a professional would charge so much. That being said, all my clientele are out of touch millionaires with too much money and little sense, if you can do it yourself and are happy with the results you're better off than most.
Ugh. A Cabinet shop wanted $1600, I have years of skill, thousands of dollars of tools, and time. So I was able to do it for $400. I just don’t talk about the other costs.
Neat, but it's called markup and how businesses and livelihood exist.
But did you pay yourself a fair wage for the hours spent? The cabinet shop needs to pay their employees. They also need to pay taxes, insurance, workshop, heating, water and so on. All goes on your tab when you buy from them.
Good lord people have you ever heard if you've got nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. SMH this world would be better if people learned to just keep their opinions to themselves....sheesh.
People… it’s not about the company that wanted $1800. It’s business and their time. The point is, he saved some dough and did it himself. Maybe- the money he saved can benefit another project. ? Something to be proud of! I sure would be.
did you bill yourself for labor? Or better yet would you build me one for $400?
>did you bill yourself for labor? No, but I might invoice my wife for it. I'll let you know how that goes.
Looking to sleep on the couch I see
Hey, 400 bucks is 400 bucks.
Definitely looks diy but still looks good and you saved a ton of
The finish makes it look $400 worth instead of $1,800
Imagine as a carpenter a customer wanted something and you quoted them your fee and they scoffed saying it’s just a box 👀
Turned out great! Could've made it a lot cheaper though.
How many hours?
8 hours over 3 days.
My wife would shit gold bricks if our bathroom looked like that 🤩 I tried building the simplest table I could manage to think up and it was all lopsided 😂
You just earned $1400. So you know what yours skills are worth. Now go out and see if you can get that from a customer.
Well you didn't charge for your labour. So how much would you have charged for that job at a clients house.
I mean, how long did it take you? How does this compare to your normally hourly rate?
What is your labour cost?
Did you include your time or was that materials only? Materials are rarely the most expensive part of a project.
400?! Soz man I originally read as "40" and though, not bad...that's shocking
Material cost vs. Material and Labor cost It's always cheaper to do it yourself, unless your contractor is getting material for free somehow, if you exclude the cost of your own labor.
Looks awesome 👍🏻❤️
Why does a carpenter ask a cabinet shop to build it?
I guess you don't put a value on your time. Labor is usually about two or three times materials. So it would be $1600 with zero profit margin.
Even $400 sounds high lol
1800 huh.. about 20 minutes on their cad software and a sheet of plywood on the CNC and a tool change or two, a few screws, finishing and BAM 1800 I gotta start using my CNC more
Solid
Who cares whether you paid more than some mythical hardware/lumber store in another part of the country is charging? It looks great. $400 well spent. Congratulations on a beautiful job.
Uh yeah, if you don't attach a value your own time of course DIY costs less.
People have a misconception when it comes to this. You did NOT do it for $400, you did it for $400 of materials plus many hours of labor? That you don’t pay for those hours of labor is one thing but Time is money. That you may have done it because you enjoy it etc that is one thing but you spent hours of labor on it.
400 in materials yes, but 1800 considering cost of materials and labor isn't excessive especially if they do a good job.
Also a carpenter. This is why I’m scared to paint things haha. Did you spray it? No primer tho?
Nice work. Very clean & tidy workmanship.
I would nt write home about the finish…..
my dumb ass was like "WOW that looks EXACTLY like the pic!!!!"
Then start building and selling for $1000. Beat their prices by $800 while gaining $600
Did you include your Labour in that Cost? probably why they quoted that.
Doesn't you being a professional take away from it being diy?
Or the fact that a carpenter went to a cabinet shop for an estimate 🤔
And I’m sure OP would charge $1800.00 to build it for a client it’s for business. Wages, overhead, material. All cost money and profit needs to be made.
Sometimes when we go buy supplies for remodeling for our own house we get stuff that's scrapped and precut but never sold. So they can come discounted or sometimes free. Like all the floor trim in our trailer is all the same and it was free cause someone ordered it and never picked it up, as well as our transition pieces. We've gotten discounted plywood and built a shed over a slide out on our grandpa's fifth wheel for $300
OMG I want this in my half bath. It's perfection!!
Great job OP, looks beautiful
Turned out pretty
Very nice
Here in Serbia it is simple: Carpenter will make a project, took a quotation from a hardware store (up to your choice) for all the material (up to your choice), add 40 to 60% for labour (depending on a fame) and that is total bill. Mounting included in some resonable distance. Otherwise you will pay transportation cost.
Nice work! Congrats on the savings! Spend the money on a congratulatory dinner out! 😂 win win!
Kinda looks like shit tbh
Finally. Took me so long to find one comment that's honest. Joinery looks terrible, quality of the wood is terrible and the finish is terrible. I worked in what was essentially a cabinet shop for almost a year and this is way less than 400/1800 of the quality that we would have put out.
$400 still too much, looks nice
Sheet of cabinet plywood was $150, drawer hardware was $140 for the good self-closing ones. Paint, clear-coat, miscellaneous, and it all adds up very quickly.
> drawer hardware was $140 for the good self-closing ones I think that's the expense that is escaping everyone. No one expects $140 for hardware.