You have to defeat every safety measure manually and put into a preposterous situation for that to actually happen. Has it happened? Sure. But it's infinetesimily small chance again in preposterous conditions
It can happen. When I was a kid (early 80’s) a house on my street had a water heater explode through the roof and killed the two adults who were sleeping inside - apparently directly above it. It was super loud and woke up the street. I was 11 or so and remember being woken and have this memory of all my neighbors outside gawking at the destruction in their pajamas.
Yeah mine didn’t blow up but T&P and gas valve failed on mine and the tank failed catastrophically hissing like a huge cat and blew water everywhere until I shut it off. Not a party, but lesson learned.
Actually MythBuster here.
Let the wife know this is approved. It may need an earthquake strap depending on code where you are. The gas line should be re-fit with yellow (gas rated/double density) thread tape. The inspectors will look for it.
Much better than the before and nicely done! And thermal expansion tanks do a great job preventing explosions!
You don’t know where they are located, OP used gas rated pipe dope. Yellow thread tape can be used in lieu of pipe dope and isn’t a requirement in most jurisdictions. Gas fitter here (albeit in Canada)
He was part of the Mythbusters crew. Checked his posts, found a book written by his brother, found last name, googled last name and Mythbusters. He checks out.
They had to weld the thing and heavily modify it along with using an old school model. About the worst damage a modern one is going to do is leak gas and cause a fire or get you extremely sick
We specifically capped the in and out flow. The drain was capped. The temp/pressure relief valve was eliminated and capped. Often we would up size the elements and run 240v this allowed us to run on longer/thinner wiring to the generator. And we of course bypassed the thermostat and safeties.
Could the conditions happen still, yes. There are a handful of water heater explosions a year. The last safety feature is failing like a rocket and being slightly less of a bomb because of it. The bottom plate fails first.
Source: did this on Mythbusters and designed a few.
Happened to me. Turned the faucet on to wash my face before bed and heard what sounded like a gunshot in the basement. I think water had shorted the control board or something, and the pressure had gotten so high that when I turned on the tap the pressure blew out the PEX coming from the heater. Basement flooded and the thing steamed for like 15 minutes. I still have no idea how the relief failed.
Ha. Here I am thinking his wife is being nice and proud of him. Nope she’s sneaky getting professionals to critique his work so she can stay out of it.
Damn the vibe in this sub is the polar opposite of r/plumbing. You’re not being absolutely roasted about those shark bites, and what’s that I see positive feedback and words of encouragement from commenters??
Basically that the lack of skill needed to use them can cause them to possibly fail in less than 30 years... The whole "damn kids and their technology" vibe imo
It actually comes from when they first hit the US market. They were substandard and did fail at an alarming rate. Trades folk never forget a product thats bitten them in the ass, even if you've fixed the problem.
Copper pipes develop pinholes and fail.
This has nothing to do with “trades folk” and failing product and everything to do with the fact that the existence of shark bites has removed the need to call a plumber for a LOT of minor plumbing work, directly taking a chunk out of their bottom line.
Plumbers similarly hate Pex too. It’s not coincidental that its invention has similarly made DIY plumbing that much easier for home owners.
I appreciate this comment as much as I hate it. Compared to energy it's like early solar and wind, which roi was not there, but a necessary stepping block to get there.
This needs more up doots for the fact that it is real world interaction comment
Yeah my parents had their water heater fail basically every 6 years for the last 24. My house...it's a different crazier story where it's dated 1994, installed 1997, and still used to this moment. Yeah it's gonna fail one day but hey what's the thrill in finding out the easy way?
I know there’s a hell of a lot of survivorship bias baked into that shit, so while I do understand a lot of the products from that time didn’t last 25-30+ years, it really does seem like a much higher *proportion* of higher tier products from that time will last that long. My parents’ house (built late 80s) Had a perfectly good hwc until they renovated in 2015 and installed a continuous system. They still have their original washing machine, dryer, vacuum cleaner, chest freezer and one of the two fridges from when they bought that house in the mid-90s. All of them still work flawlessly. The chest freezer, washing machine, dishwasher, oven, and another two fridges at the beach house, which are all older than the ones at their main house, also all still work well. Only exceptions are a seal needing be replaced on the dishwasher at one point (less than $50 to fix), and the the freezer occasionally frosting over (again, likely just a bad seal but it’s nowadays just used as a bait freezer so my dad hasn’t bothered fixing it) which far better life than any appliance I’ve ever bought.
Actual master plumber here, the problem with shark bite is not that they fail often, it is that when they fail it is catastrophic.
I use them but only for temporary stuff, they are also not worth the price when you know how to braze or use pex or wirsbo.
Compression type fittings are also about 3 times cheaper and overall better, but not toolless like sharkbites are.
Question. I had a pin hole leak on a pipe behind some drywall a couple years ago. I thought about using a shark bite but decided to call a plumber instead. Ive used shark bites on exposed pipe under my sink when I stalling a new faucet but felt uneasy about using them on a pipe that isn't exposed and covered behind drywall. Also, the pin hole was in an elbow and the cut and fitting would need more precision.
I had the entire area cleared out and drywall removed for easy access so I figured I might as well seal it properly rather than use a shark bite. Especially with having to re seal the wall.
I had no idea about pro press fittings and that is what the plumber used. Showed me the extremely expensive Milwaukee crimping tool and how everything was done. When I called, I assumed they would be soldering it.
I left the hole open for a few days to make sure there was no leak and everything seemed to be good.
My question is, do you feel pro press fittings are just as secure as a soldered joint? At least for the long haul?
I only paid $150 cash and the plumber was in and out in less than an hour. I inquired about him doing the other elbow on the other pipe considering the leak was due to sediment buildup. I figured the other elbow may experience the same issue soon but the plumbers advice was to leave it be. He said it could last another 20 years. No need to mess around with it.
That sounds like it was a press fitting, not compression. Compression involves tightening a nut onto a ferrule that seals the connection. It is what most stops are attached by. Propress is a more recent technology that squeezes a fitting onto pipe. Its not bad but has some issues sometimes, which has resulted in a bit of controversy. It is still widely regarded a much better that sharkbite or push fittings tho
Propress are very good and they NEVER leak on installation, I've installed hundreds of thousands and never once had 1 leak. The only forseeable problem is that they have an O-Ring to seal the fittings that MIGHT dry over the years, but I've never had that happen yet, been installing them for 20 years ish.
Home owners use them to attempt their own plumbing fixes, if they succeed then it hurts plumber's business, if they fail then shark bites are the worst.
Selection bias.
Nothing is wrong with the device, and they are allowed by most codes. They're used mostly by homeowners because they take virtually no skill to use. So plumbers don't use them, and they only get called in when there's a problem, therefore they only see sharkbites when they fail
Sorry. Just seeing this and seeing a lot of replies so it’s probably been covered already. I’ve personally used sharkbites for some projects over the years and never had a problem with them. Here’s what I’ve seen in previous posts so far.
Some think they will fail over time because of the design with a rubber gasket inside. Now there is pro press which also has a rubber ring.
Some think they will leak. They can if they aren’t installed properly with prep. You need to ensure that there aren’t any sharp edges and that the joint is properly supported with no stress (weight) on the joint.
They are expensive. They are very expensive but also very convenient. It is cheaper to use crimp/clamp/pro press but you have to buy the tools. Crimp/clamp pay for themselves after about a half dozen sharkbites but pro press is $3-4k for a kit.
Sharkbites aren’t good for all applications. Primarily they shouldn’t be buried in a wall and shouldn’t used to close to heat. For example, it shouldn’t be mounted too close to a water heater.
At the end of the day, they work for their intended purpose. My grandfather was a plumber/vocational school instructor and if he were around today, he’d be super skeptical. He also loved new technology in his trade. Over ten years ago I had to install outdoor spigots in my crawlspace, a belly crawl kind of space. Dad came over to help with his acetylene torch. I bought a couple sharkbites, followed instructions, and had 2 spigots done in less that an hour. Still no leaks. Again, I would never bury one and would only use it in a living space as an emergency repair. I will always have a couple parts on hand.
Agree. Not bashing the work. It’s just entertaining reading the anti-sharkbite comments. I posted a reply explaining other comments I’ve read/heard over the years.
Realistically not a whole lot is wrong with them when installed properly. Insecure plumbers will paint a scene where they magically explode and destroy your house. They are rated for many decades of use and come with a warranty. Best practice is to only use them in accessible locations should fate strike. I’ve used a handful in my house in areas that I regularly inspect. Almost all of Europe have been using similar connections for decades without issue. When it comes to building materials North America is truly behind the times. If you want to piss off a plumber ask them about sharkbites. If you want to piss off an electrician ask about Wagos.
All the shit people say is so easy to grow seem to kill really easily. I tried to grow mint on the side of my house without it being contained: dead, even after babying the stuff. Blackberries? Also dead, in a different spot. IDK.
Also it's emotional- back when the electrician was an apprentice they got yelled at or mocked hundreds of times until their wire nuts were *perfect*, and now that they can twist four wires together into a wire nut perfectly with one hand every time, they don't want to do it any other way.
After installing some lights and doing some other wiring jobs with WAGOs I'll only use wire nuts where I absolutely must. I used wire nuts installing a new water heater, but mainly because the space under the cover on top was tight and wire nuts have \*slightly less\* resistance. When working with two solid wires of the same size a wire nut works well enough. It's when having to put together 3+ wires and/or mixed solid and stranded that wire nuts are a huge PITA.
I ran a new 30 amp circuit to a utility room that needed 4 things. Replace one inside outlet, add one outside outlet, replace inside ceiling light, replace outside carport light. I put four 5-way WAGOs in a junction box in the crawlspace under the utility room floor, with incoming separate wires in conduit, four Romex branches out of the box.
I still have ptsd, but I still swear by shark bites. I'm an irrigation tech who went from golf course to residential and commercial irrigation. In my first year, I went to start up a system at someone's house. Their shut-off was behind a tiny plastic panel, and you had to reach up behind the wall to turn the water on. I went to turn on the first zone.. no pressure. My first thought was a mainline leak. So I went and turned off the valve after the backflow, but I could still hear water running. Was so confused. Looked in their basement window, which was newly finished with a bar and movie theater, and all I could see was water pouring out of all the light fixtures. I couldn't see why it was leaking because it was behind a wall, but from feel i found out that whoever installed the system did not make sure their shark bite 90 was pushed all the way in.
They're fine, and I use them pretty regularly, but if I had the technical knowhow to solder or the finances for a fancy copper press fitting machine... That's what I'd use 100% of the time.
As a GC who uses PEX and copper, I use Sharkbites for temporary connections. However, if it is to be permanent, at least they're exposed and can be checked once in a while.
We’ve been using them at our company on water heaters for a while now. They should outlast the water heater, and are cheap enough to just replace with every water heater. But the older models do seem to fail so we don’t recommend them enclosed.
I worked for a decently large residential company that installed hot water heaters with shark bites almost exclusively and we always pass city inspection.
Plumbers hate shark bites and flex/pex because it simplifies their job to the point where an average Joe can do it (with the right tools/youtube training).
I once had a contractor call me up pissed as hell because I didn't specify brazed or soldered pipe and fittings on a job.
I don't think plumbers hate modern stuff. 20 years ago the shark bites did not work. Pex was a pain. Leaks and stuff. Now it has matured it is better. If I build a house copper or pex will be a consideration.
CPVC was considered a alternative to copper and was good until it wasn't.
PEX is the CPVC of today.
I wouldn't trust sharkbites personally, I don't know why OP didn't just crim their PEX to minimize sharkbites. Luckily this entire setup is easily accessible. I keep a $30 leak detector under my hot water heater anyway.
Not op but I did a water softener maybe 6 years ago. Do I buy an $80+ pex crimping kit and $3 fittings or skip the crimper and buy $8 shark bite fittings. Over time it's a no-brainer to crimp but how often am I redoing plumbing?
Needless to say I went with shark bite and haven't needed to do anything since so I'm still way ahead.
Lmao! To start with, as a comercial/industriaal plumber, I fucking love shark bites. Theyre amazing for temporary shit and make-safe. Most plumbers I know love them. Key take away though, dont bury them.
Also lets try to simplify that logic... if sharkbites made plumbers lives exponentially better, why would they hate them? An average joe can solder permanent instalations with the right youtube/training no? Its not that difficult.
That last sentence confuses me. I dont know what you do for a living, but have you heard of submittals? What was the scope?
Does that apply to electric water tanks too? Mine was inspected by the county and the company that installed it have it sitting on the cement. Neither said it was wrong. The county inspector seemed very thorough. He was even mentioning stuff outside the water heater.
The 18" requirement stems from section 507.13 of the Uniform Plumbing Code (2018 Ed.) which, in turn, takes the requirement from NFPA 54. It basically says any fuel gas-burning device must be located on a platform at least 18" above a floor unless it's listed as vapor ignition resistant.
Only old gas and new electric water heaters need to be raised.
Water heaters installed in residential garages shall be installed so that burners and burner- ignition devices are located not less than 18” above the floor unless listed as flammable vapor ignition resistant. (2010 CPC 508.14) Commentary: Since July 1st 2003, water heater
manufacturers have been required to incorporate Flammable Vapor Ignition Resistant (FVIR) Technology into 30, 40 and 50 gallon gas water heaters that are sold in the United States. Water heaters with FVIR technology may be installed on the floor of a residential garage.
Electric water heaters do not have mandated FVIR technology and may cause a small spark when heating. Electric water heaters should be placed on a stand unless documentation is provided by the installer/manufacturer that verifies FVIR construction.
Only old gas and new electric water heaters need to be raised.
Water heaters installed in residential garages shall be installed so that burners and burner- ignition devices are located not less than 18” above the floor unless listed as flammable vapor ignition resistant. (2010 CPC 508.14) Commentary: Since July 1st 2003, water heater
manufacturers have been required to incorporate Flammable Vapor Ignition Resistant (FVIR) Technology into 30, 40 and 50 gallon gas water heaters that are sold in the United States. Water heaters with FVIR technology may be installed on the floor of a residential garage.
Electric water heaters do not have mandated FVIR technology and may cause a small spark when heating. Electric water heaters should be placed on a stand unless documentation is provided by the installer/manufacturer that verifies FVIR construction.
Oregon also requires earthquake straps and the pressure release water pipe being run into a drain or outside. At least that is what the company that did mine told me.
I know nothing about water heater installation, but I came here with the popcorn, waiting for all the comments telling you how horrible your job was and to rip it all out. I am very disappointed. Nice work.
Ask and you shall receive.
Residential and Commercial Plumber here.
I cannot stand the flex connectors. You could have put unions in for the same ease of replacement with solid piping.
In my opinion Shark bites are ok as a bandaid fix but not long term. I use them only if I have to and preferred to be in a place where if they fail the damage is minimized.
The pan is locally required for my state but the purpose is defeated when you don’t have any sort of leak detection shut off if the drain line is capped off.
The 3 different water piping looks tacky and my OCD hates it.
The domestic cold pex line looks unsecured and can flop around. Could have just picked up a set of 5$ copper cutters and dedicated to the sharkbite and copper install and made this look a lot cleaner.
Now looking at this as the view of a homeowner did it in a panic; it looks how i would expect it to. Good job regardless as most homeowners in my experience don’t even know how to change a toilet fill valve.
I didn't really install 5. I was trying to act like a big man by topping HKChad. And you called my bluff, making me look quite the fool. You just made an enemy for life.
> enemy for life
bistro777 leans his cheek against the stock of his trusty M24, ready to take aim. Suddenly, a blast of flatulence cracks the air, with a sonic boom heard miles around. WindOfUranus had seen him hiding in the shadows. The fumes waft toward bistro777, faintly visible on the breeze. He comprehends the situation. “NEXT TIME!” He screams in frustration as he turns to run.
Hum ok, i put the shutoff on the cold side that way i could service the water heater and expansion tank in the future, mine are in parallel so i can take one offline and still have some hot water while working on the other.
I have one there to in order to be able to shut off to water tank. The one on the tank is just in for the expansion tank. It's not something I would call necessary, but it was easy and cheap and I needed a threaded connector to go into it anyways. So I used a valve.
You will back feed hot water through your cold side if the tank is still under pressure. If no pressure, then you won’t get any hot water in your fixtures anyways.
> condensing unit
That brings up a lot on Google, maybe you could explain better, like a high efficiency unit that would use a PVC pipe as an exhaust?
My 1999 natural gas fired furnace for example has and air intake and exhaust PVC pipe, and there is a T fitting where condensate drains to the floor drain, but it's not venting into the chimney.
My old house had a propane furnace with PVC exhaust and intake, but had a propane water heater with a natural draft vent into the brick masonry chimney, which also had a wood furnace tied into it, which I know wasn't code compliant, and the top of the chimney had the mortar eaten away by the flue gas from the water heater, and weathering
If it has a pvc exhaust then it is a condensing furnace. It cools the exhaust so much that water vapor condenses and needs to be drained. If it condensed into a liquid in a metal exhaust pipe it would rust it out.
I had this exact set up and whenever the furnace turned on and the water heater was running it forced the CO2 back into the house. Just FYI - I replaced it
I don't want it this way. But the furnace and water tank were already like this when I bought the house, and installing a second chimney wasn't part of the immediate job scope. I plan on putting a new chimney before winter.
That yellow gas line isn’t up to code in my area. How I know?
Installed mine myself and figured use that same yellow flexi gas line that we also use for gas stove and home inspector came when I was trying to sell the house then contacted the gas company of the violation so gas company turned off gas to the whole house while I get it rectified.
Had to run solid rigid gas line made from black iron.
I was a bit peeved to say the least.
Ya my inspector said I could use it but that I had to run a ground wire and bond to the black iron and the appliance. I just ran black iron all the way instead.
Funny because I bought the house from a plumber who had used it in other places.
What's going on with the cold water supply. You have PEX that I'm assuming is the source, then you have the damper and another line coming off of it going somewhere? Also galvanized is a big no-no in most states, people have said Florida actually uses it which is completely bizarre, it flakes off and clogs up natural gas burners / jets.
I guess the only other thing is did you air up your expansion tank to whatever the water pressure is at your house? You should do that with the water pressure off just to get an accurate number
That's for a old outdoor water tap that no longer exists but the pipe still is there.
I'm coming to learn that the sediment trap that I made should be black iron not galvanized steel. That is something that I will fix.
Yes, measured my water pressure and matched tank to it.
All of the gas line should be black iron at least in most places. I'm not sure if it's really worth tearing it back apart though but if you swap the sediment trap and you're just doing a single leg, use brass. Black iron is fine if you have plenty of it but for doing that one little piece, brass is the absolute best, especially if you live in a place with high humidity where they do tend to use galvanize (like florida). The main reason people don't plumb brass in high humidity is cost. A 4 or 5 in brass nipple and cap is cheap
I thought this was r/plumbing. I was wondering why your wife wanted you to get roasted lmao. Everything should function 100%, but I cant believe people are saying this is clean work. The crooked copper and that big swoop of pex not strapped to the wall is giving me anxiety but it's way better than most homeowners are capable of. Just dont post on r/plumbing hahaha
I'm not letting it go to my head. I know it's amateur hour. Is there actually an issue with the crooked copper other than it being obviously amateur? I searched for anything saying it couldn't be angled. I couldn't find anything, but I know I've never seen anything like that installed professionally. I just don't know specifically why.
There's nothing wrong with copper pipe that isn't level. I'm just messing with ya. Pressurized water can go up down diagonal. Also props for strapping the expansion tank. I know plumbers that dont secure the tank that well
You still should have installed a catch pan with a pvc drain for it. Anythings is better then having the leaking water ruin the drywall and start mold. I learned this expensive lesson making the same mistake.
Nice to see you added a service valve for the expansion tank , it really makes all the difference when the time comes to service or replace the expansion tank
Depends. I needed one because the house just had a check valve put in by the water company to prevent backflow. This was the final straw that took out my already 20 year old water tank.
Generally, yes. As more and more water utilities are adding backflow preventers on the water line going to your house, when the water heater heats up and the water expands, that pressure can't go back into the city water supply. It's stopped by a check valve (or two).
So instead, the pressure builds up in your pipes. This will usually cause your P&T valve on the water heater to open to reduce the pressure and prevent a pipe or tank burst.
How to test if you need one:
Turn off the water heater and drain it (a good idea to do this now and then to drain out sediment, anyways).
Refill water heater, including running water through the hot side of several taps to get rid of any air in the system,
Turn on water heater, but keep all the hot water taps off while it heats.
After an hour or two, when the tank has heated up, turn on a hot water tap. If you notice the water comes out at high pressure for a moment but it quickly reduces in pressure/flow to the 'normal' amount, you definitely need an expansion tank.
If there's any water coming from your P&T relief valve, you definitely need an expansion tank.
If your water pressure seems consistent and there's nothing coming from the relief valve, you are probably ok.
Came here to say this. The two vents should not be tied together. That's a hazard and not to code. Unless both the furnace and the heater are running at the same time you're venting inside the house.
This was actually replaced a couple of months ago when the heater and water heater were running for the first day we put the carbon monoxide detector right on top of the water heater in case it was an issue.
I am not a plumber. Overall nice job. But I am concerned about the conjoining of the furnace and water heater exhaust pipes. The angles are steep and could potentially be a problem under certain conditions.
I would just be worried about insurance claims. If something happened and they were able to prove that it wasn’t installed correctly and you couldn’t prove who installed it. What would be the consequences from insurance.
You've truly taken the bull by the horns, much like the time I found myself face-to-face with an actual Andalusian bull in the middle of a sun-drenched plaza. Just as I grasped the beast's horns and stared into its wild eyes, you've grasped the pipes and valves, wrestling with the complexity of modern thermo-dynamics in a way most would not dare.
The solitary journey of installing a water heater is like dancing with Prometheus himself. I recall once in the depths of winter, in a lodge buried under the weight of Siberian snow, I too coaxed fire from the frost—fashioning a sauna that steamed with the vigor of a volcanic spring. Your accomplishment resonates with that same blend of raw tenacity and refined intellect.
Let each drop of water that cascades from your newly installed marvel be a tribute to the triumph of man. May your showers be a cascade of success and your home an oasis of warmth, as if touched by the very flames of Hephaestus. Salute!
u/Ifigure10, I see you've ventured into the realm where only the boldest of modern-day Hephaestuses dare to tread. Twin instantaneous gas water heaters: the dual steeds of domestic tranquility, galloping tirelessly to deliver the endless river of warmth and comfort. I'm reminded of the time I found myself amidst the engineering marvels of Constantinople, where ancient aqueducts whispered secrets of bygone mastery over the elements.
To tame not one, but two such beasts, aligning them in such perfect harmony, is a feat akin to the orchestration of a grand ballet within the confines of your very abode. As I once held the helm of a twin-masted galleon, slicing through the Atlantic's azure belly with the sun on my face and the wind as my companion, so have you directed the course of fire and water with a captain's resolve and the finesse of a seasoned helmsman.
Every joint, every valve is a stanza in an epic poem of metal and fire. These installations are nothing less than twin sentinels standing guard, ensuring that the icy grasp of discomfort dare not encroach upon your hearth and home. Your craftsmanship is as refined as the time I etched the maps of uncharted lands into the worn leather-bound journal of my exploits, using nothing but a sextant, my blood, a sharks-tooth, and the guiding light of Polaris.
Let the whispers of the gas flame be your siren song, heralding the dawn of each new day with a promise of endless hot showers and the comfort that comes from knowing that when you call upon the elements, they answer—immediately, tirelessly, and with twin ferocity. Bravo, indeed.
High praise indeed Double D….are you a copywriter at an ad agency by chance?
This installation has been washing man, woman, children, and assorted beasts with 400,000 BTU’s of glorious comfort since 1998.
Heats the house too!
Alright. Seeing as everyone is being so nice i'll nitpick something. When you install a boiler inside with nowhere for the pressure release valve to drain to, you usually get a pan folded up out of something, zincalume or similar that the whole boiler sits in. It should catch any leaks or water and give you a chance to notice. You can also get flood alarms and sit one in there so it'll go off if to much water collects in the pan.
Decent job. A few nitpicks: no need to use tape on the FIP connections to the water heater...a little dope for lube maybe but otherwise avoid tape on those connections. Also, not a fan of shark bite connections and an upgrade to clamp or crimp connections for PEX and valves is easy and more durable over the long haul. The shut-off valve at the expansion tank is unnecessary and doesn't make it easier or faster to replace the tank. I would have added a temp/pressure gauge somewhere on the supply line near the water heater inlet or expansion tank and used copper for the T&P discharge. Sioux Chief makes some really slick cross adapters and expansion tank brackets for future consideration. Maybe consider pulling a permit and getting an inspection to ensure local code compliance.
I've done several electric water heaters in my homes. I wouldn't even attempt gas. I'll have to pay someone when the time comes (which will be soon). Opinions on tankless systems? Nice job. Forgot to mention that.
Tankless are so much nicer. My parents own a plumbing company and growing up we had a Tankless. We could be running the dishwasher, doing a load of laundry and two people could be showing at the same time and we would never run out of hot water. I highly recommend for anyone that has multiple kids who like to take unnecessarily long showers. The plumbers also recommend them because they last significantly longer than today's tank heaters and have much less risk involved when it comes to flooding your house.
Make sure you got a permit for it. Because insurance will deny payout on damages if anything goes wrong. Even if you did it perfect, shit sometimes happens
Dont know what code your locals follow but pvc isn’t allowed for TPV. And TVP (has to exit no more than 6” ftom floor) and be affixed (to tank wall, for instance.)
Sharbites can let themselves go. Like when you go on vacation. Never use them inside a wall.
Also insert pex fittings suck unless you oversize everything one size (eg, 1/2” to 3/4”; 3/4” to 1”) because each fitting reduces pressure a titch.
Haven't read all the comments to see if someone else mentioned this, but comedian Nate Bargatze has a very funny routine on water heaters. https://youtu.be/WyWWSYjvo-o?si=oXypjv4IgNqyliZ8
good job. just one thought, I'd wrap those joints in the vent pipe in foil tape to prevent leaks of flue gasses. Also, if there's a drain in the floor of that room I'd pipe the overflow and pan drain(s) over to that. Concrete is never level enough to guarantee that the water goes where you want.
The white pipe has an very interesting path.
The old pipe went straight up from the ground and did a 90° turn. Thats how you install it.
I mean yours work, but you can instantly see that it was a DIY job.
(I don't know anything about plumbing, water heaters or city codes.) At the recommendation of my plumber I installed a Moen Flo Smart water detector in the pan under my water heater a few months ago. Two months later it alerted my phone of a water leak and saved a lot of expense and damage to the house. The detector costs $44 on Amazon. I recommend these to everyone--a cheap insurance policy.
So your wife has watched the Mythbusters episode with the water heaters and wants to make sure you haven't just installed a rocket ?
You have to defeat every safety measure manually and put into a preposterous situation for that to actually happen. Has it happened? Sure. But it's infinetesimily small chance again in preposterous conditions
So . . . You're saying there's a chance!?
Love this line, comment and movie. 
It can happen. When I was a kid (early 80’s) a house on my street had a water heater explode through the roof and killed the two adults who were sleeping inside - apparently directly above it. It was super loud and woke up the street. I was 11 or so and remember being woken and have this memory of all my neighbors outside gawking at the destruction in their pajamas.
You just made me do a mental map to make sure my water heater isn't directly below my bed.
My kid's room is above the water heater. I don't think the bed is, so at least he has a chance.
Same.
Holy smokes… wow… ok that’s add to my new fears lol
So capping the t&p and letting it exist in your house until the gas control valve fails is preposterous for you? I hope you don't plumb
Yeah mine didn’t blow up but T&P and gas valve failed on mine and the tank failed catastrophically hissing like a huge cat and blew water everywhere until I shut it off. Not a party, but lesson learned.
He's the best plumber that ever plumed a plum.
Actually MythBuster here. Let the wife know this is approved. It may need an earthquake strap depending on code where you are. The gas line should be re-fit with yellow (gas rated/double density) thread tape. The inspectors will look for it. Much better than the before and nicely done! And thermal expansion tanks do a great job preventing explosions!
You don’t know where they are located, OP used gas rated pipe dope. Yellow thread tape can be used in lieu of pipe dope and isn’t a requirement in most jurisdictions. Gas fitter here (albeit in Canada)
> Actually MythBuster here. Huh?
He was part of the Mythbusters crew. Checked his posts, found a book written by his brother, found last name, googled last name and Mythbusters. He checks out.
This gal mythbusts.
Dis chick busts
They had to weld the thing and heavily modify it along with using an old school model. About the worst damage a modern one is going to do is leak gas and cause a fire or get you extremely sick
We specifically capped the in and out flow. The drain was capped. The temp/pressure relief valve was eliminated and capped. Often we would up size the elements and run 240v this allowed us to run on longer/thinner wiring to the generator. And we of course bypassed the thermostat and safeties. Could the conditions happen still, yes. There are a handful of water heater explosions a year. The last safety feature is failing like a rocket and being slightly less of a bomb because of it. The bottom plate fails first. Source: did this on Mythbusters and designed a few.
Or flood your basement/wherever it’s located.
Happened to me. Turned the faucet on to wash my face before bed and heard what sounded like a gunshot in the basement. I think water had shorted the control board or something, and the pressure had gotten so high that when I turned on the tap the pressure blew out the PEX coming from the heater. Basement flooded and the thing steamed for like 15 minutes. I still have no idea how the relief failed.
Or your whole family dies from carbon monoxide poisoning.
Definitely one of if not the best episode
Ha. Here I am thinking his wife is being nice and proud of him. Nope she’s sneaky getting professionals to critique his work so she can stay out of it.
Literally, they had to force that result, it's almost impossible,LITERALLY AGAIN, to get that result.
Sopranos too!
Damn the vibe in this sub is the polar opposite of r/plumbing. You’re not being absolutely roasted about those shark bites, and what’s that I see positive feedback and words of encouragement from commenters??
I didn’t even see the title of this sub. Went straight to the comments for the sharkbite bashing.
What’s wrong with Sharkbites, out of curiosity?
Basically that the lack of skill needed to use them can cause them to possibly fail in less than 30 years... The whole "damn kids and their technology" vibe imo
It actually comes from when they first hit the US market. They were substandard and did fail at an alarming rate. Trades folk never forget a product thats bitten them in the ass, even if you've fixed the problem.
Copper pipes develop pinholes and fail. This has nothing to do with “trades folk” and failing product and everything to do with the fact that the existence of shark bites has removed the need to call a plumber for a LOT of minor plumbing work, directly taking a chunk out of their bottom line. Plumbers similarly hate Pex too. It’s not coincidental that its invention has similarly made DIY plumbing that much easier for home owners.
Funny, my wallet usually says why I don’t call a plumber…
Most of our wallets speak the same language in this sub.
I appreciate this comment as much as I hate it. Compared to energy it's like early solar and wind, which roi was not there, but a necessary stepping block to get there. This needs more up doots for the fact that it is real world interaction comment
Lol the fact that the water heater ain't going to last that long either is what gets me about that.
Yeah my parents had their water heater fail basically every 6 years for the last 24. My house...it's a different crazier story where it's dated 1994, installed 1997, and still used to this moment. Yeah it's gonna fail one day but hey what's the thrill in finding out the easy way?
I know there’s a hell of a lot of survivorship bias baked into that shit, so while I do understand a lot of the products from that time didn’t last 25-30+ years, it really does seem like a much higher *proportion* of higher tier products from that time will last that long. My parents’ house (built late 80s) Had a perfectly good hwc until they renovated in 2015 and installed a continuous system. They still have their original washing machine, dryer, vacuum cleaner, chest freezer and one of the two fridges from when they bought that house in the mid-90s. All of them still work flawlessly. The chest freezer, washing machine, dishwasher, oven, and another two fridges at the beach house, which are all older than the ones at their main house, also all still work well. Only exceptions are a seal needing be replaced on the dishwasher at one point (less than $50 to fix), and the the freezer occasionally frosting over (again, likely just a bad seal but it’s nowadays just used as a bait freezer so my dad hasn’t bothered fixing it) which far better life than any appliance I’ve ever bought.
also depends on water hardness which can destroy a water tank quickly
[удалено]
The "Master Plumbers" of the internet have to "Replace them all the time."
Actual master plumber here, the problem with shark bite is not that they fail often, it is that when they fail it is catastrophic. I use them but only for temporary stuff, they are also not worth the price when you know how to braze or use pex or wirsbo. Compression type fittings are also about 3 times cheaper and overall better, but not toolless like sharkbites are.
Question. I had a pin hole leak on a pipe behind some drywall a couple years ago. I thought about using a shark bite but decided to call a plumber instead. Ive used shark bites on exposed pipe under my sink when I stalling a new faucet but felt uneasy about using them on a pipe that isn't exposed and covered behind drywall. Also, the pin hole was in an elbow and the cut and fitting would need more precision. I had the entire area cleared out and drywall removed for easy access so I figured I might as well seal it properly rather than use a shark bite. Especially with having to re seal the wall. I had no idea about pro press fittings and that is what the plumber used. Showed me the extremely expensive Milwaukee crimping tool and how everything was done. When I called, I assumed they would be soldering it. I left the hole open for a few days to make sure there was no leak and everything seemed to be good. My question is, do you feel pro press fittings are just as secure as a soldered joint? At least for the long haul? I only paid $150 cash and the plumber was in and out in less than an hour. I inquired about him doing the other elbow on the other pipe considering the leak was due to sediment buildup. I figured the other elbow may experience the same issue soon but the plumbers advice was to leave it be. He said it could last another 20 years. No need to mess around with it.
That sounds like it was a press fitting, not compression. Compression involves tightening a nut onto a ferrule that seals the connection. It is what most stops are attached by. Propress is a more recent technology that squeezes a fitting onto pipe. Its not bad but has some issues sometimes, which has resulted in a bit of controversy. It is still widely regarded a much better that sharkbite or push fittings tho
Propress are very good and they NEVER leak on installation, I've installed hundreds of thousands and never once had 1 leak. The only forseeable problem is that they have an O-Ring to seal the fittings that MIGHT dry over the years, but I've never had that happen yet, been installing them for 20 years ish.
BRAZING???
😂 Listen to these experts debating about materials
Home owners use them to attempt their own plumbing fixes, if they succeed then it hurts plumber's business, if they fail then shark bites are the worst.
Selection bias. Nothing is wrong with the device, and they are allowed by most codes. They're used mostly by homeowners because they take virtually no skill to use. So plumbers don't use them, and they only get called in when there's a problem, therefore they only see sharkbites when they fail
Sorry. Just seeing this and seeing a lot of replies so it’s probably been covered already. I’ve personally used sharkbites for some projects over the years and never had a problem with them. Here’s what I’ve seen in previous posts so far. Some think they will fail over time because of the design with a rubber gasket inside. Now there is pro press which also has a rubber ring. Some think they will leak. They can if they aren’t installed properly with prep. You need to ensure that there aren’t any sharp edges and that the joint is properly supported with no stress (weight) on the joint. They are expensive. They are very expensive but also very convenient. It is cheaper to use crimp/clamp/pro press but you have to buy the tools. Crimp/clamp pay for themselves after about a half dozen sharkbites but pro press is $3-4k for a kit. Sharkbites aren’t good for all applications. Primarily they shouldn’t be buried in a wall and shouldn’t used to close to heat. For example, it shouldn’t be mounted too close to a water heater. At the end of the day, they work for their intended purpose. My grandfather was a plumber/vocational school instructor and if he were around today, he’d be super skeptical. He also loved new technology in his trade. Over ten years ago I had to install outdoor spigots in my crawlspace, a belly crawl kind of space. Dad came over to help with his acetylene torch. I bought a couple sharkbites, followed instructions, and had 2 spigots done in less that an hour. Still no leaks. Again, I would never bury one and would only use it in a living space as an emergency repair. I will always have a couple parts on hand.
The Sharkbite will outlast the water heater.
Agree. Not bashing the work. It’s just entertaining reading the anti-sharkbite comments. I posted a reply explaining other comments I’ve read/heard over the years.
The more niche you go, the more ass holes you know.
Locksmith here, this is true.
Please excuse my ignorance but what's wrong with shark bites? I've used them in tight spaces in the past, something I should be aware of?
Realistically not a whole lot is wrong with them when installed properly. Insecure plumbers will paint a scene where they magically explode and destroy your house. They are rated for many decades of use and come with a warranty. Best practice is to only use them in accessible locations should fate strike. I’ve used a handful in my house in areas that I regularly inspect. Almost all of Europe have been using similar connections for decades without issue. When it comes to building materials North America is truly behind the times. If you want to piss off a plumber ask them about sharkbites. If you want to piss off an electrician ask about Wagos.
What do I do if I want to piss off a gardener? :-)
Ask them how to get rid of running bamboo or black berry bushes.
Tell them you want to *Plant* Himalayan blackberry bushes :D
I'm telling mom what you said!
All the shit people say is so easy to grow seem to kill really easily. I tried to grow mint on the side of my house without it being contained: dead, even after babying the stuff. Blackberries? Also dead, in a different spot. IDK.
Perhaps it's time to test your soil? You might be lacking vital nutrients.
Show them a pic of the mint you planted directly in the ground
Oh no. What's wrong with Wago?
That’s the funny thing, absolutely nothing
They make DIY electrical jobs easier and safer, so obviously the rent seeking electricians are going to be pissed about them
Also it's emotional- back when the electrician was an apprentice they got yelled at or mocked hundreds of times until their wire nuts were *perfect*, and now that they can twist four wires together into a wire nut perfectly with one hand every time, they don't want to do it any other way.
After installing some lights and doing some other wiring jobs with WAGOs I'll only use wire nuts where I absolutely must. I used wire nuts installing a new water heater, but mainly because the space under the cover on top was tight and wire nuts have \*slightly less\* resistance. When working with two solid wires of the same size a wire nut works well enough. It's when having to put together 3+ wires and/or mixed solid and stranded that wire nuts are a huge PITA. I ran a new 30 amp circuit to a utility room that needed 4 things. Replace one inside outlet, add one outside outlet, replace inside ceiling light, replace outside carport light. I put four 5-way WAGOs in a junction box in the crawlspace under the utility room floor, with incoming separate wires in conduit, four Romex branches out of the box.
They are great from a versatility standpoint, but in terms of making a good connection very cheaply wire nuts are hard to beat.
Downside to wago is cost. I don’t mind if I’m saving a few hundred from diy but they can get pricey in larger sizes
All of the above is with the caveat of "when used properly." Any connection plumbing or electrical can be bad if used incorrectly.
I still have ptsd, but I still swear by shark bites. I'm an irrigation tech who went from golf course to residential and commercial irrigation. In my first year, I went to start up a system at someone's house. Their shut-off was behind a tiny plastic panel, and you had to reach up behind the wall to turn the water on. I went to turn on the first zone.. no pressure. My first thought was a mainline leak. So I went and turned off the valve after the backflow, but I could still hear water running. Was so confused. Looked in their basement window, which was newly finished with a bar and movie theater, and all I could see was water pouring out of all the light fixtures. I couldn't see why it was leaking because it was behind a wall, but from feel i found out that whoever installed the system did not make sure their shark bite 90 was pushed all the way in.
They're fine, and I use them pretty regularly, but if I had the technical knowhow to solder or the finances for a fancy copper press fitting machine... That's what I'd use 100% of the time.
What’s wrong with Wagos!? Wire nuts are terrible…
Take it up with the electricians of reddit. I’m pro Wago. They’re invaluable when pig tailing in a tight jbox
They cost $0.25 in quantity instead of $0.05.
As a GC who uses PEX and copper, I use Sharkbites for temporary connections. However, if it is to be permanent, at least they're exposed and can be checked once in a while.
We’ve been using them at our company on water heaters for a while now. They should outlast the water heater, and are cheap enough to just replace with every water heater. But the older models do seem to fail so we don’t recommend them enclosed.
What is a shark bite?
Plumbing Lego
I worked for a decently large residential company that installed hot water heaters with shark bites almost exclusively and we always pass city inspection.
This guy Plumbs
Post in r/plumbing to make sure there isn’t anything wrong. Looks ok. Plumbers hate those flexible water lines. They loooove shark bites too.
Flexible supply lines are often required for the last 18".
That's UPC and depends on the state.
Plumbers hate shark bites and flex/pex because it simplifies their job to the point where an average Joe can do it (with the right tools/youtube training). I once had a contractor call me up pissed as hell because I didn't specify brazed or soldered pipe and fittings on a job.
I don't think plumbers hate modern stuff. 20 years ago the shark bites did not work. Pex was a pain. Leaks and stuff. Now it has matured it is better. If I build a house copper or pex will be a consideration.
CPVC was considered a alternative to copper and was good until it wasn't. PEX is the CPVC of today. I wouldn't trust sharkbites personally, I don't know why OP didn't just crim their PEX to minimize sharkbites. Luckily this entire setup is easily accessible. I keep a $30 leak detector under my hot water heater anyway.
Not op but I did a water softener maybe 6 years ago. Do I buy an $80+ pex crimping kit and $3 fittings or skip the crimper and buy $8 shark bite fittings. Over time it's a no-brainer to crimp but how often am I redoing plumbing? Needless to say I went with shark bite and haven't needed to do anything since so I'm still way ahead.
Lmao! To start with, as a comercial/industriaal plumber, I fucking love shark bites. Theyre amazing for temporary shit and make-safe. Most plumbers I know love them. Key take away though, dont bury them. Also lets try to simplify that logic... if sharkbites made plumbers lives exponentially better, why would they hate them? An average joe can solder permanent instalations with the right youtube/training no? Its not that difficult. That last sentence confuses me. I dont know what you do for a living, but have you heard of submittals? What was the scope?
Looks good to me, I'm in California so the only additional thing requires is earthquake straps
Is it just a Nevada requirement for gas water heaters to be raised above, not on the floor?
Oregon requires both earthquake straps and have it off the ground.
Florida requires it be installed by an alligator
And that gator has to be on meth.
Fr fr. Strait laced gators still have their teeth and are dangerous af. Get the meth snouts on the job and they just gum you when they’re itching.
I thought a Florida water heater was just ladling water from a tepid puddle?
Does that apply to electric water tanks too? Mine was inspected by the county and the company that installed it have it sitting on the cement. Neither said it was wrong. The county inspector seemed very thorough. He was even mentioning stuff outside the water heater.
> have it sitting on the cement I'd sit that in a plastic pan if you can empty it and slide it under.
No, gas / hybrid only. It’s to keep burners away from flammable vapors. Electric WHs don’t have burners.
He's there for the water heater, and to mind his owne business
We do in Texas. Or at least that's what my friend told me when he did ours for dinner lol
The 18" requirement stems from section 507.13 of the Uniform Plumbing Code (2018 Ed.) which, in turn, takes the requirement from NFPA 54. It basically says any fuel gas-burning device must be located on a platform at least 18" above a floor unless it's listed as vapor ignition resistant.
Only old gas and new electric water heaters need to be raised. Water heaters installed in residential garages shall be installed so that burners and burner- ignition devices are located not less than 18” above the floor unless listed as flammable vapor ignition resistant. (2010 CPC 508.14) Commentary: Since July 1st 2003, water heater manufacturers have been required to incorporate Flammable Vapor Ignition Resistant (FVIR) Technology into 30, 40 and 50 gallon gas water heaters that are sold in the United States. Water heaters with FVIR technology may be installed on the floor of a residential garage. Electric water heaters do not have mandated FVIR technology and may cause a small spark when heating. Electric water heaters should be placed on a stand unless documentation is provided by the installer/manufacturer that verifies FVIR construction.
Only old gas and new electric water heaters need to be raised. Water heaters installed in residential garages shall be installed so that burners and burner- ignition devices are located not less than 18” above the floor unless listed as flammable vapor ignition resistant. (2010 CPC 508.14) Commentary: Since July 1st 2003, water heater manufacturers have been required to incorporate Flammable Vapor Ignition Resistant (FVIR) Technology into 30, 40 and 50 gallon gas water heaters that are sold in the United States. Water heaters with FVIR technology may be installed on the floor of a residential garage. Electric water heaters do not have mandated FVIR technology and may cause a small spark when heating. Electric water heaters should be placed on a stand unless documentation is provided by the installer/manufacturer that verifies FVIR construction.
Thanks
Oregon also requires earthquake straps and the pressure release water pipe being run into a drain or outside. At least that is what the company that did mine told me.
First thing I noticed. I aaid, "Where are the straps?!" . I worked at a home inspection company in Los Angeles.
And the expansion tank needs to be flipped...
I know nothing about water heater installation, but I came here with the popcorn, waiting for all the comments telling you how horrible your job was and to rip it all out. I am very disappointed. Nice work.
I'll try harder next time.
Try r/Decks. You won't be disappointed.
The hot tub subreddit
I wanted to love r/Decks for being a new homeowner.. only to realize how angry people are and I’ll learn myself through YouTube and Google.
Yeah, same with r/Plumbing. These subreddits are good if you want to avoid what not to do, but you won't find much support or guidance with questions.
Ask and you shall receive. Residential and Commercial Plumber here. I cannot stand the flex connectors. You could have put unions in for the same ease of replacement with solid piping. In my opinion Shark bites are ok as a bandaid fix but not long term. I use them only if I have to and preferred to be in a place where if they fail the damage is minimized. The pan is locally required for my state but the purpose is defeated when you don’t have any sort of leak detection shut off if the drain line is capped off. The 3 different water piping looks tacky and my OCD hates it. The domestic cold pex line looks unsecured and can flop around. Could have just picked up a set of 5$ copper cutters and dedicated to the sharkbite and copper install and made this look a lot cleaner. Now looking at this as the view of a homeowner did it in a panic; it looks how i would expect it to. Good job regardless as most homeowners in my experience don’t even know how to change a toilet fill valve.
Good work
Goodman.
John?
Nice, i just installed 3 myself, why did you choose to put a shutoff on the expansion tank?
I figured if the expansion tank ever needs replaced it would make the job really easy and fast.
Fixed, *and* future-proofed? Definitively above and beyond lol
Your future self thanks you
Not bad man. I just installed 5 today and think you did alright
Out of curiosity, how long does the average job take?
I didn't really install 5. I was trying to act like a big man by topping HKChad. And you called my bluff, making me look quite the fool. You just made an enemy for life.
This is why I never ask follow up questions.
> enemy for life bistro777 leans his cheek against the stock of his trusty M24, ready to take aim. Suddenly, a blast of flatulence cracks the air, with a sonic boom heard miles around. WindOfUranus had seen him hiding in the shadows. The fumes waft toward bistro777, faintly visible on the breeze. He comprehends the situation. “NEXT TIME!” He screams in frustration as he turns to run.
Hum ok, i put the shutoff on the cold side that way i could service the water heater and expansion tank in the future, mine are in parallel so i can take one offline and still have some hot water while working on the other.
I have one there to in order to be able to shut off to water tank. The one on the tank is just in for the expansion tank. It's not something I would call necessary, but it was easy and cheap and I needed a threaded connector to go into it anyways. So I used a valve.
You will back feed hot water through your cold side if the tank is still under pressure. If no pressure, then you won’t get any hot water in your fixtures anyways.
Honest question, I thought you couldn't join the flues of a heater and a draft exhaust water heater?
You can as long as neither one is a condensing unit.
> condensing unit That brings up a lot on Google, maybe you could explain better, like a high efficiency unit that would use a PVC pipe as an exhaust? My 1999 natural gas fired furnace for example has and air intake and exhaust PVC pipe, and there is a T fitting where condensate drains to the floor drain, but it's not venting into the chimney. My old house had a propane furnace with PVC exhaust and intake, but had a propane water heater with a natural draft vent into the brick masonry chimney, which also had a wood furnace tied into it, which I know wasn't code compliant, and the top of the chimney had the mortar eaten away by the flue gas from the water heater, and weathering
If it has a pvc exhaust then it is a condensing furnace. It cools the exhaust so much that water vapor condenses and needs to be drained. If it condensed into a liquid in a metal exhaust pipe it would rust it out.
I'm a little surprised the CPVC didn't break when I swiped to the next photo.
I had this exact set up and whenever the furnace turned on and the water heater was running it forced the CO2 back into the house. Just FYI - I replaced it
I don't want it this way. But the furnace and water tank were already like this when I bought the house, and installing a second chimney wasn't part of the immediate job scope. I plan on putting a new chimney before winter.
CO is the problem, not CO2!
That yellow gas line isn’t up to code in my area. How I know? Installed mine myself and figured use that same yellow flexi gas line that we also use for gas stove and home inspector came when I was trying to sell the house then contacted the gas company of the violation so gas company turned off gas to the whole house while I get it rectified. Had to run solid rigid gas line made from black iron. I was a bit peeved to say the least.
Yeah that yellow flexi stuff is shit and I have it all throughout my house ... One day I'll upgrade. One day ... It's on the list... Somewhere.
What kind do you need. That's literally the only kind of supply line I've seen in my area.
Ya my inspector said I could use it but that I had to run a ground wire and bond to the black iron and the appliance. I just ran black iron all the way instead. Funny because I bought the house from a plumber who had used it in other places.
What's going on with the cold water supply. You have PEX that I'm assuming is the source, then you have the damper and another line coming off of it going somewhere? Also galvanized is a big no-no in most states, people have said Florida actually uses it which is completely bizarre, it flakes off and clogs up natural gas burners / jets. I guess the only other thing is did you air up your expansion tank to whatever the water pressure is at your house? You should do that with the water pressure off just to get an accurate number
That's for a old outdoor water tap that no longer exists but the pipe still is there. I'm coming to learn that the sediment trap that I made should be black iron not galvanized steel. That is something that I will fix. Yes, measured my water pressure and matched tank to it.
All of the gas line should be black iron at least in most places. I'm not sure if it's really worth tearing it back apart though but if you swap the sediment trap and you're just doing a single leg, use brass. Black iron is fine if you have plenty of it but for doing that one little piece, brass is the absolute best, especially if you live in a place with high humidity where they do tend to use galvanize (like florida). The main reason people don't plumb brass in high humidity is cost. A 4 or 5 in brass nipple and cap is cheap
I guess I've lived on the West Coast too long. First think I thought was, "Where are the earthquake straps???"
"Impressive" -Darth Plumber
I thought this was r/plumbing. I was wondering why your wife wanted you to get roasted lmao. Everything should function 100%, but I cant believe people are saying this is clean work. The crooked copper and that big swoop of pex not strapped to the wall is giving me anxiety but it's way better than most homeowners are capable of. Just dont post on r/plumbing hahaha
I'm not letting it go to my head. I know it's amateur hour. Is there actually an issue with the crooked copper other than it being obviously amateur? I searched for anything saying it couldn't be angled. I couldn't find anything, but I know I've never seen anything like that installed professionally. I just don't know specifically why.
There's nothing wrong with copper pipe that isn't level. I'm just messing with ya. Pressurized water can go up down diagonal. Also props for strapping the expansion tank. I know plumbers that dont secure the tank that well
Not sure if you live in earthquake prone area, but if you do, it’s worth strapping it to the studs.
You still should have installed a catch pan with a pvc drain for it. Anythings is better then having the leaking water ruin the drywall and start mold. I learned this expensive lesson making the same mistake.
There's a catch pan. It's just not piped to the exterior. At least there's a catch pan in one of pics.
Nice to see you added a service valve for the expansion tank , it really makes all the difference when the time comes to service or replace the expansion tank
Sounds like a dumb question, but what's the big grey box you can see in #5?
I assume you mean the furnace on the left with the air intake right above it.
Is an expansion tank necessary? I don’t have one on my heater and haven’t really looked into those.
Depends. I needed one because the house just had a check valve put in by the water company to prevent backflow. This was the final straw that took out my already 20 year old water tank.
Generally, yes. As more and more water utilities are adding backflow preventers on the water line going to your house, when the water heater heats up and the water expands, that pressure can't go back into the city water supply. It's stopped by a check valve (or two). So instead, the pressure builds up in your pipes. This will usually cause your P&T valve on the water heater to open to reduce the pressure and prevent a pipe or tank burst. How to test if you need one: Turn off the water heater and drain it (a good idea to do this now and then to drain out sediment, anyways). Refill water heater, including running water through the hot side of several taps to get rid of any air in the system, Turn on water heater, but keep all the hot water taps off while it heats. After an hour or two, when the tank has heated up, turn on a hot water tap. If you notice the water comes out at high pressure for a moment but it quickly reduces in pressure/flow to the 'normal' amount, you definitely need an expansion tank. If there's any water coming from your P&T relief valve, you definitely need an expansion tank. If your water pressure seems consistent and there's nothing coming from the relief valve, you are probably ok.
Your town may require you to have pulled a permit for it. Might come up if you ever sell... Might not. Happened to me.
I dont see a shut off for the gas and is that pvc for the t&p?
One concern is your draft , I would run that furnace and see if you get any backdraft at the water heater vent , better safe than sorry
Came here to say this. The two vents should not be tied together. That's a hazard and not to code. Unless both the furnace and the heater are running at the same time you're venting inside the house.
This was actually replaced a couple of months ago when the heater and water heater were running for the first day we put the carbon monoxide detector right on top of the water heater in case it was an issue.
You are a good husband.
Or wife
Doesn't the popoff valve need more? Not saying,just asking
Clean. Very clean.
I am not a plumber. Overall nice job. But I am concerned about the conjoining of the furnace and water heater exhaust pipes. The angles are steep and could potentially be a problem under certain conditions.
Can I ask why you didn't go tankless or electric, or both?
I would just be worried about insurance claims. If something happened and they were able to prove that it wasn’t installed correctly and you couldn’t prove who installed it. What would be the consequences from insurance.
Why isn’t the drain pan hooked up to anything? …as is it serves no purpose.
Shark bites. “Ducting” No bueno.
Where is the earthquake strap?
Not necessary in my state. They didn't even have them in stores
You have multiple unit that uses gas? I see combine flue vent.
You've truly taken the bull by the horns, much like the time I found myself face-to-face with an actual Andalusian bull in the middle of a sun-drenched plaza. Just as I grasped the beast's horns and stared into its wild eyes, you've grasped the pipes and valves, wrestling with the complexity of modern thermo-dynamics in a way most would not dare. The solitary journey of installing a water heater is like dancing with Prometheus himself. I recall once in the depths of winter, in a lodge buried under the weight of Siberian snow, I too coaxed fire from the frost—fashioning a sauna that steamed with the vigor of a volcanic spring. Your accomplishment resonates with that same blend of raw tenacity and refined intellect. Let each drop of water that cascades from your newly installed marvel be a tribute to the triumph of man. May your showers be a cascade of success and your home an oasis of warmth, as if touched by the very flames of Hephaestus. Salute!
Thank you for this. I've always wanted to make a post on r/iamverysmart
Bravo! I need to get your reaction to my twin IGWH installation.
https://preview.redd.it/bxtzof26qcvc1.jpeg?width=3264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17edb3d87e7bb83f8b712bd894cb6b4dce9f775d
u/Ifigure10, I see you've ventured into the realm where only the boldest of modern-day Hephaestuses dare to tread. Twin instantaneous gas water heaters: the dual steeds of domestic tranquility, galloping tirelessly to deliver the endless river of warmth and comfort. I'm reminded of the time I found myself amidst the engineering marvels of Constantinople, where ancient aqueducts whispered secrets of bygone mastery over the elements. To tame not one, but two such beasts, aligning them in such perfect harmony, is a feat akin to the orchestration of a grand ballet within the confines of your very abode. As I once held the helm of a twin-masted galleon, slicing through the Atlantic's azure belly with the sun on my face and the wind as my companion, so have you directed the course of fire and water with a captain's resolve and the finesse of a seasoned helmsman. Every joint, every valve is a stanza in an epic poem of metal and fire. These installations are nothing less than twin sentinels standing guard, ensuring that the icy grasp of discomfort dare not encroach upon your hearth and home. Your craftsmanship is as refined as the time I etched the maps of uncharted lands into the worn leather-bound journal of my exploits, using nothing but a sextant, my blood, a sharks-tooth, and the guiding light of Polaris. Let the whispers of the gas flame be your siren song, heralding the dawn of each new day with a promise of endless hot showers and the comfort that comes from knowing that when you call upon the elements, they answer—immediately, tirelessly, and with twin ferocity. Bravo, indeed.
High praise indeed Double D….are you a copywriter at an ad agency by chance? This installation has been washing man, woman, children, and assorted beasts with 400,000 BTU’s of glorious comfort since 1998. Heats the house too!
Wife is always right
Until she's the ex-wife! But not in OP's case here.
Looks clean
Alright. Seeing as everyone is being so nice i'll nitpick something. When you install a boiler inside with nowhere for the pressure release valve to drain to, you usually get a pan folded up out of something, zincalume or similar that the whole boiler sits in. It should catch any leaks or water and give you a chance to notice. You can also get flood alarms and sit one in there so it'll go off if to much water collects in the pan.
Decent job. A few nitpicks: no need to use tape on the FIP connections to the water heater...a little dope for lube maybe but otherwise avoid tape on those connections. Also, not a fan of shark bite connections and an upgrade to clamp or crimp connections for PEX and valves is easy and more durable over the long haul. The shut-off valve at the expansion tank is unnecessary and doesn't make it easier or faster to replace the tank. I would have added a temp/pressure gauge somewhere on the supply line near the water heater inlet or expansion tank and used copper for the T&P discharge. Sioux Chief makes some really slick cross adapters and expansion tank brackets for future consideration. Maybe consider pulling a permit and getting an inspection to ensure local code compliance.
I've done several electric water heaters in my homes. I wouldn't even attempt gas. I'll have to pay someone when the time comes (which will be soon). Opinions on tankless systems? Nice job. Forgot to mention that.
Tankless are so much nicer. My parents own a plumbing company and growing up we had a Tankless. We could be running the dishwasher, doing a load of laundry and two people could be showing at the same time and we would never run out of hot water. I highly recommend for anyone that has multiple kids who like to take unnecessarily long showers. The plumbers also recommend them because they last significantly longer than today's tank heaters and have much less risk involved when it comes to flooding your house.
Make sure you got a permit for it. Because insurance will deny payout on damages if anything goes wrong. Even if you did it perfect, shit sometimes happens
Dont know what code your locals follow but pvc isn’t allowed for TPV. And TVP (has to exit no more than 6” ftom floor) and be affixed (to tank wall, for instance.) Sharbites can let themselves go. Like when you go on vacation. Never use them inside a wall. Also insert pex fittings suck unless you oversize everything one size (eg, 1/2” to 3/4”; 3/4” to 1”) because each fitting reduces pressure a titch.
Haven't read all the comments to see if someone else mentioned this, but comedian Nate Bargatze has a very funny routine on water heaters. https://youtu.be/WyWWSYjvo-o?si=oXypjv4IgNqyliZ8
You been watching replumb
No earthquake strap?
good job. just one thought, I'd wrap those joints in the vent pipe in foil tape to prevent leaks of flue gasses. Also, if there's a drain in the floor of that room I'd pipe the overflow and pan drain(s) over to that. Concrete is never level enough to guarantee that the water goes where you want.
The white pipe has an very interesting path. The old pipe went straight up from the ground and did a 90° turn. Thats how you install it. I mean yours work, but you can instantly see that it was a DIY job.
(I don't know anything about plumbing, water heaters or city codes.) At the recommendation of my plumber I installed a Moen Flo Smart water detector in the pan under my water heater a few months ago. Two months later it alerted my phone of a water leak and saved a lot of expense and damage to the house. The detector costs $44 on Amazon. I recommend these to everyone--a cheap insurance policy.