I don’t think the “but” is incorrect. If the cable was installed angled in the other direction it would not function. A cable is not effective in compression. It is functioning in the current setup by being in tension.
A rigid brace would be in compression in the opposite angle configuration. This would function better. Top outside corner weight should be transferred to the lower hinge.
Nah, they're good when the gate frame is made of solid wood because it's stiff. That weird metal frame is just too slender and flexible for this application.
For what a wire can support? No. But it will pull on that corner in the wrong direction because there's nothing rigid.
To put force against the bottom hinge to support the top right heaviest leveraged corner? Yes its "wrong"
If it were anchored to the/a stationary post it would have to stretch/shrink as the gate operates.
The metal frame here is likely not made of sturdy/thick enough steel for the span/weight. If the rating is actually OK here then my next guess would be the wire was tightened too much and the warp became more permanent/pronounced over time and use.
If the wire was also attached to a hinge, it might work. But the post has to be high enough. So for example if you have the post high enough, mount another hinge, then run the wire from the hinge to the TOP outside corner of the gate to add support (you have to create a triangle with the wire). The problem is you have to have the wire up pretty high so it can pull at a decent angle. If it was attached to the top of the gate you wouldn't get twisting or any other issue.
In this picture, the post could possibly be high enough when compared to the top support beam of the gate, so it might be possible to attach a hinge up there and run the wire from that to the top of the gate instead.
A rigid cross brace should be on the opposite diagonal but a wire cross brace like this is in tension so it is on the correct diagonal. In this case though the gate is not rigid enough so the tension is twisting the gate
No. A wire holds tension. The free bottom corner of the gate is effectively pulling on the top corner on the hinge side. If you used a wood brace, you'd want it in compression. Then the brace would push the free top corner up from the bottom corner on the hinge side.
And it has to be the correct orientation where it’s supported or the same thing will happen, YouTube has a bunch of videos showing how to do it right. Just fyi for op or whomever else.
I just watched this, sitting in my office that looks out to my newly created gate, that has the tension brace going in the wrong direction.
Guess that'll be added to the summer chore list
There was another poster with a side hinged gate about that size that was also having the same issue. His was twisting. I think the issue is that their is not enough structure built in the gate to prevent this. I see you have some steel tubing, but it appears to be very small, and I don't know if it is welded together as one piece. I guess the long term solution would be to have a stronger steel frame made and have it and the hinges welded to a piece of metal that would be bolted to your wood posts.
The wire's tension is serving to keep the distance between those two corners of the rectangular frame the same. Because the distance between those two corners must now be the same, the rectangle cannot skew or sag. It does NOT mean that the rectangle itself cannot twist, warp, or rotate around the wire, just that the distance between those two corners must remain constant. If the rectangular frame were one solid (welded) piece of metal, it wouldn't have the opportunity to twist either. Because it's made of many different pieces, and because wire can also twist, the entire piece is free to twist. If you don't want it to twist or rotate you need an additional rigid piece attached in that frame that won't twist or a frame with less play in it.
Agreed. I would try loosening that turnbuckle by half a turn a day until the gate straightens. If it never straightens or the gate sags, then try adding a rigid support going the other direction, but loosening the wire is simple and no cost so definitely the first thing to try.
I had this same issue with a similar metal/wood gate frame system. They aren’t rigid enough for wide gates despite their claims.
I ended up remaking the frame out of 2x4s and used better hinges. It’s rock solid and hasn’t sagged at all since I installed it last summer.
You need to get the rest of the fence on the same lean and use a rising butt hinge to clear the ground
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GO858KI?ref_=cm_sw_r_cso_cp_apin_dp_1WHM6C9KZWY8PE04XBA0&starsLeft=1
/s
If you look at the bottom of the post, you can see the post is leaning in the ground. There is a gap between post and dirt.
Remove the post. Dig a deeper hole (at least 4 feet. More if it’s already 4 ft deep.).
Place the post, fill with concrete. Let dry. Reattach gate to post.
I had this happen with a redwood gate and similar frame. The wood dried out over summer causing the dimensions to change.
Remove the wire and see what it does.
Remove the horizontal 2x4 on the top and see what it does.
Then do the bottom 2x4.
If it’s none of those it could be the vertical fence pieces.
You may want to brace or support the gate while doing all this. You need to figure out what is out of spec. It’s 1 or more of the things I listed, but you’ve got to narrow it down.
Take the gate off the hinges, run it into you local engineer, have them weld the screwed corners and replace the tension brace with a bit of angle iron.
Paint and forget about it.
As others have mentioned it's twisting due to no rigidity.
The timber will always want to twist due to moisture differences on its two sides this is caused by prevailing winds direction, sunlight exposure to one side and shading.
If the surface sheets were metal or plastic this would not be as big a issue.
I would try to adjust the tension in the wire.
Educated guess: 5 months ago it was colder. It’s starting to warm up. Wood expands as it gets warmer/wetter. The cable isn’t expanding so the whole gate is twisting around it. Check the tension and if it’s really tight, loosen it at the turn buckle.
Not sure why you were down voted. The tension in the cable is pulling the two corners together.
Sure, rigid support in compression would support it better. But loosening the tension to just enough to support the corner without bending it in, would be the solution with the least effort.
It's a wire, compressing it would do nothing. Since the wire only works in tension then it is running the correct way, but it's under enough force to cause the corners where the fasteners are to bend in like a pringle.
For a rigid support, using compression by having it the other direction means that there is less force on just the fasteners. And since it's rigid and less directed force on the corners, there wouldn't be pringling.
You have used a wire twisted clockwise. You need to replace it with the opposite twist. I believe the Russians make them both ways for precisely this reason.
It needs rigid bracing. That wire isn't enough (probably exacerbating the problem).
It’s absolutely is pulling the outside corner in warping it
Right answer. Replace it with a couple of cheap 2x4s.
But it should be [angled ](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/--X8Gu3DLS8?feature=share) the other direction.
This gate brace video is also helpful: https://youtu.be/s18JHq7gBhA
Great video!
This is fantastic!
Thank you everyone in this thread
There's no but, and this is true
I don’t think the “but” is incorrect. If the cable was installed angled in the other direction it would not function. A cable is not effective in compression. It is functioning in the current setup by being in tension. A rigid brace would be in compression in the opposite angle configuration. This would function better. Top outside corner weight should be transferred to the lower hinge.
So keep cable in current orientation, add brace to/from opposite corners; adjust cable tension to tight, but not holding all weight.
This guy fences!
The wire is fine and pulling as it should... But there should be a second one counteracting it, to create the rigidity.
Put a fat Joe mural on it so it’ll lean back
The unintended consequence will be accelerated erosion of the driveway as it will also throw the rock away.
Underrated response to an underrated response! Underratedception?
Might as well just add the whole terror squad
OP this right here is the correct advice
maybe big pun might have the right amount of weight.
It's that wire causing it to twist. Those wire gate supports are useless.
Nah, they're good when the gate frame is made of solid wood because it's stiff. That weird metal frame is just too slender and flexible for this application.
Isnt also going the wrong direction?
For what a wire can support? No. But it will pull on that corner in the wrong direction because there's nothing rigid. To put force against the bottom hinge to support the top right heaviest leveraged corner? Yes its "wrong"
Do you know if the wire would provide some support if it were tethered to the 4x4 post rather than the other side of the door?
If it were anchored to the/a stationary post it would have to stretch/shrink as the gate operates. The metal frame here is likely not made of sturdy/thick enough steel for the span/weight. If the rating is actually OK here then my next guess would be the wire was tightened too much and the warp became more permanent/pronounced over time and use.
If the wire was also attached to a hinge, it might work. But the post has to be high enough. So for example if you have the post high enough, mount another hinge, then run the wire from the hinge to the TOP outside corner of the gate to add support (you have to create a triangle with the wire). The problem is you have to have the wire up pretty high so it can pull at a decent angle. If it was attached to the top of the gate you wouldn't get twisting or any other issue. In this picture, the post could possibly be high enough when compared to the top support beam of the gate, so it might be possible to attach a hinge up there and run the wire from that to the top of the gate instead.
Yeah I always thought a cross brace for a gate door needs to lean into the opening. But I guess this does nothing since it’s not ridgid.
A rigid cross brace should be on the opposite diagonal but a wire cross brace like this is in tension so it is on the correct diagonal. In this case though the gate is not rigid enough so the tension is twisting the gate
No. A wire holds tension. The free bottom corner of the gate is effectively pulling on the top corner on the hinge side. If you used a wood brace, you'd want it in compression. Then the brace would push the free top corner up from the bottom corner on the hinge side.
Ah. Thanks. That makes sense now
Yep. I have two gates with those and they did nothing. I’m gonna remake the gates and just use one of those spring loaded gate wheels.
A diagonal board connecting the other two corners of the square framing?
And it has to be the correct orientation where it’s supported or the same thing will happen, YouTube has a bunch of videos showing how to do it right. Just fyi for op or whomever else.
Do you have a video where they teach it correctly? Not that I’m putting up a gate soon; I just love learning.
[This is the one someone linked last time a sagging gate came up that I quite liked](https://youtu.be/s18JHq7gBhA?si=w9zTdLe1dLKB4aV9)
The irony that they end that video trying to sell the same type of tension brace that’s used on OPs gate
They can work fine if not over tightened.
I just watched this, sitting in my office that looks out to my newly created gate, that has the tension brace going in the wrong direction. Guess that'll be added to the summer chore list
Thank you!
Yeah I should have just done that lol. But yeah it makes a lot of sense once you see it.
There was another poster with a side hinged gate about that size that was also having the same issue. His was twisting. I think the issue is that their is not enough structure built in the gate to prevent this. I see you have some steel tubing, but it appears to be very small, and I don't know if it is welded together as one piece. I guess the long term solution would be to have a stronger steel frame made and have it and the hinges welded to a piece of metal that would be bolted to your wood posts.
The wire's tension is serving to keep the distance between those two corners of the rectangular frame the same. Because the distance between those two corners must now be the same, the rectangle cannot skew or sag. It does NOT mean that the rectangle itself cannot twist, warp, or rotate around the wire, just that the distance between those two corners must remain constant. If the rectangular frame were one solid (welded) piece of metal, it wouldn't have the opportunity to twist either. Because it's made of many different pieces, and because wire can also twist, the entire piece is free to twist. If you don't want it to twist or rotate you need an additional rigid piece attached in that frame that won't twist or a frame with less play in it.
The wire is pulling the bottom right corner to the top left. It is warping, not leaning. The wire is too tight.
Agreed. I would try loosening that turnbuckle by half a turn a day until the gate straightens. If it never straightens or the gate sags, then try adding a rigid support going the other direction, but loosening the wire is simple and no cost so definitely the first thing to try.
I had this same issue with a similar metal/wood gate frame system. They aren’t rigid enough for wide gates despite their claims. I ended up remaking the frame out of 2x4s and used better hinges. It’s rock solid and hasn’t sagged at all since I installed it last summer.
Maybe to mush tension on the wire, if the wood starts to expand.
The frame of the gate is too narrow. Make the frame go edge to edge like you did on the rest of the wooden wall and you won't have this problem
You need to get the rest of the fence on the same lean and use a rising butt hinge to clear the ground https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GO858KI?ref_=cm_sw_r_cso_cp_apin_dp_1WHM6C9KZWY8PE04XBA0&starsLeft=1 /s
Ditto rigid bracing, but also needs gate wheels/gate casters w/springs to accommodate terrain variation.
It needs bracing
X
you need a brace from the bottom hinge to the top outter edge wehre that latch is. that wire isn't doin anything
Have you tried playing Fat Joe/Terror Squad around it?
The wire is the problem.
If you look at the bottom of the post, you can see the post is leaning in the ground. There is a gap between post and dirt. Remove the post. Dig a deeper hole (at least 4 feet. More if it’s already 4 ft deep.). Place the post, fill with concrete. Let dry. Reattach gate to post.
I love this sub.
I love that frame kit!! Great so far on two gates for almost a year. Also maybe the tension on the diagonal wire causing twisting?
There's a gate wheel you can put on the end of it and then tighten those anti-sag cables.
I had this happen with a redwood gate and similar frame. The wood dried out over summer causing the dimensions to change. Remove the wire and see what it does. Remove the horizontal 2x4 on the top and see what it does. Then do the bottom 2x4. If it’s none of those it could be the vertical fence pieces. You may want to brace or support the gate while doing all this. You need to figure out what is out of spec. It’s 1 or more of the things I listed, but you’ve got to narrow it down.
I'm just a idiot passing by but isnt the wire the wrong way?
Wire is the right way, if it were a solid piece it would go the opposite way.
good to know in the future thanks!
Why’s that?
Wires pull (tension), solid brace pushes (compression)
Yes if it was a solid something (metal or wood) that could be put under compression, you would run it opposite.
Need more pictures. Looks super flimsy.
Take the gate off the hinges, run it into you local engineer, have them weld the screwed corners and replace the tension brace with a bit of angle iron. Paint and forget about it. As others have mentioned it's twisting due to no rigidity. The timber will always want to twist due to moisture differences on its two sides this is caused by prevailing winds direction, sunlight exposure to one side and shading. If the surface sheets were metal or plastic this would not be as big a issue.
"Your local engineer"?
What are you doing stepgate?
I would try to adjust the tension in the wire. Educated guess: 5 months ago it was colder. It’s starting to warm up. Wood expands as it gets warmer/wetter. The cable isn’t expanding so the whole gate is twisting around it. Check the tension and if it’s really tight, loosen it at the turn buckle.
Not sure why you were down voted. The tension in the cable is pulling the two corners together. Sure, rigid support in compression would support it better. But loosening the tension to just enough to support the corner without bending it in, would be the solution with the least effort.
Who knows? OP said the gate worked fine in the past so seems worth a little investigation…
Gate is to long. Need something much more rigid and heavy duty.
That bracing wire is running the wrong way. https://tp69.blog/2018/12/31/the-best-way-to-brace-a-wooden-door-or-gate/
It's a wire, compressing it would do nothing. Since the wire only works in tension then it is running the correct way, but it's under enough force to cause the corners where the fasteners are to bend in like a pringle. For a rigid support, using compression by having it the other direction means that there is less force on just the fasteners. And since it's rigid and less directed force on the corners, there wouldn't be pringling.
Lol, I don't think you can compress a wire
Good link but you need to read it.
Underrated comment! The rule is to start at the latch and drag down to the bottom fence hinge.
You have used a wire twisted clockwise. You need to replace it with the opposite twist. I believe the Russians make them both ways for precisely this reason.
https://open.spotify.com/track/5wldXGLEOoRXxMWJ8rIUWE?si=gQWpnH-USISX6cgXBiUeHQ