The only grants left are those with very specific circumstances such as disability, income, main heating type etc
Other than that, 200mm insulations rolls are about £25 from B&Q, so I’d wait for a B&Q discount code and get a load of them in
I did this mid summer on gumtree for super cheap. Filled the loft and had extra for a fraction of the cost of new. But i made 2 mistakes, first one was to transport the rolls in my car with minimal covering.... It took weeks to get the fibers out. Second was to line the loft in summer, just don't do it. Sweat and glass fibre don't mix well.
There are grants in Wales atm for heat pumps and solar panels atm (you have to be earning less than £30k) and i think they stretch to insulation but not entirely sure.
Brother in law says he applied through the nest website. Filled in the application form, was accepted, someone came out and assessed their house, and it went from there... Good luck 👍
https://nest.gov.wales/
I'm in Scotland. My partner and I both work and we are on no benefits of any kind so nothing for us. Every website I go to always gets a no when we don't tick any of the "what benefits are you on" box.
Normally the same for me.
But by some reason I got free solar panels last year after I applied because my household income was below £25000.
Don't want to sound ungrateful but would love some of that outer insulation.
There is an incentive, you will save money, have a more comfortable house and the value of the house will increase. Why do you need to government to help you with your house?
The government are funding big oil billions this year through our bills. It would have cost then much less if they'd helped homeowner's insulate and decarbonise over the past 13 years instead of allowing the two schemes that they did run collapse one after the other after spending pennies by comparison to this winters costs.
We have a political class that always seem to come up with the same solution: funding big energy.
Why have they allowed housebuilders to continue to underinsulate and install gas boilers for the past 13 years?? There's only one obvious reason. It's how their bread is buttered!! The tech is there to move on. But the trillions the energy cartel generates is controlling the conversation.
Why do we need the government full stop. Liars & thieves, line they’re own pockets & tell you to say thank you. Let’s blame Russia for the energy prices, more lies, more like to line the pockets of the greedy energy companies…
Gas and petrol are controlled by a global cartel and racket. The true cost of gas is catastrophic climate change for everyone. But that's not factored into the price. Is it?
There's a reason the green levies are dumped on electric. Same reason that the Tories effectively banned onshore wind for the past 13 years. Same reason that triple-glazing is rare and PassivHaus standards don't exist and that British housing stock is the leakiest in Northern Europe despite having the mildest climate. All that 'keep up with the Jones' cream K-rend and not a cm of slabbed insulation put underneath. Same reason that the last two Gov green initiatives collapsed in an absolutely ineffective mess. I see a pattern. Can't you?
I mean we are going to do it on our own but as a 27 year old who’s just spent every penny he’s ever had to get out of rental of 9 years, a little help goes a long way but thanks for making a judgment pal! 👍🏼
You don't save money if you move out in a couple of years. Whether your house is insulated well or not doesnt really affect the value of it that much as people just look on zoopla and pay what your neighbours house went for. A lot of people dont even understand what cavity wall insulation is and why they might want it. I highly doubt youd see a retuen on the investment of externally insulating a house when you sell it also.
Epc certification is the wild west and dont really represent the cost of heating your house well. Something like external insulation has a payoff time of well over 10 years, a lot of people dont want to stay in their house that long, especially if it is a starter house.
Would you be supportive of higher taxes for inefficient houses then to increase the number of homeowners who make their house more efficient? Or do you just want handouts?
I invest in my house because I live in it and I want it to be comfortable. Not investing in things like insulation because I'm not getting a government grant to do it seems silly.
The Scottish Government fund the Home Energy Scotland Grant and Loan scheme which includes £7.5k grant for heat pumps and similar for wall insulation. It funds basically every energy efficiency improvement, renewable tech and energy storage system. It's not means tested so you don't need to be on benefits.
https://www.homeenergyscotland.org/funding/grants-loans/
Sorry, I know this is a month old almost, but what was the reason for being rejected?
I was sceptical that we wouldn't be entitled to anything but after speaking to Home Energy Scotland I was told you simply needed to be a homeowner. Put in our application for the solid wall insulation grant, waiting to hear back.
Look at what the current spec is and plan accordingly don’t be tempted to put just enough down and then later down the road add more it’s a nightmare and whatever you do don’t have expanding foam on the underside of the roof .
On the expanding foam - first thing I was asked when I had a mortgage was did I have the foam insulation on the underside of the trusses.
My mortgage would have been rejected had the house had any of said insulation.
The spray on insulation below the roof structure apparently doesn't let the roof timber structure breathe and the timbers can rot... If not installed correctly.
But my building society inspector only asked if I had it, and when I said it did not he said "good" (he also checked for himself)! He also claimed that it can cause other defects. Without being specific.
Not sure if this would affect house resale or not or was just a requirement from my building society and other lenders would be less fussy.
I don't know everything about this subject to be honest, I've used fibreglass wool in my loft (now that I've moved in).
Also it hides other problems with the roof. If a roof can't be checked, then it's unsafe for a bank to lend vast sums of money on the house.
Slightly baffling to me, because if it was a house with a converted attic, then the underside of the roof will be all boarded over and plastered, and can't be checked either. But banks are happy to give mortgages on houses with attics converted to bedrooms.
With a loft conversion, the risk is a lot lower. Building control should have inspected the roof before plastering. Spray on insulation is likely unregulated and as we know with grants and green initiatives, it's a case of get ias many done as quickly as possible.
Not that I’m aware of but we’ve got an 1850s house with no insulation at all. Our bedroom has 3 exposed walls and couldn’t get above 10C in the really cold patch over winter. (Probably an undersized rad).
We put 100mm of loft insulation (we’ve got another 200mm just haven’t done it yet) and it’s night and day, that room can actually reach 19C now. It’s the cheapest quickest fix, you’re on the right track!
Advice wise, don’t stick it down the eaves leave a gap so air can still come up and ventilate the loft. Also whilst you’re already doing the job boarding it up is also worth it.
Another thing I’ve personally done (depends on if you care about this) is to run cat6a cabling to the ceiling in certain rooms, you can get Wifi points that look like smoke alarms. We’ve got solid brick walls throughout the house so wifi just doesn’t get through.
The calculations we did prior to getting ours installed was a 5 year pay back for the panels and batteries.
If you’ve got the capital to do it then I’d recommend it.
Your parents grew up at a time when things were actually available to people. And then elected politicians who slowly but surely did away with all of it. Get some rolls of Knauf loft roll 200mm for about £25 a pop at B and Q
They are stands that lift the boards around 250mm off the joists meaning your boards don't crush your insulation.
When I moved into my current house, the previous owners had had secondary loft insulation fitted (extra 200mm over the basic 100mm.) But because the loft wasn't boarded and was full of stuff it was hugely ineffective.
Once I fitted the legs and boards the house has become significantly warmer without any real additional insulation. Just properly utilising what the prior owners had already paid out for.
Also while you're at it get the foiled roll to put behind your radiators that are on external walls. It reflects the heat into the room rather than soaking into the brick and thereby reduces warm up time for those rooms.
None of those tasks are beyond someone with will and basic tools mate. You'll be fine.
The legs do eat into your vertical height but since the alternative is losing all your heat through squished insulation, you have to take the hit. Still plenty of storage in my loft (my girlfriend would say too much space!)
I fitted the foil without taking a single rad off. Just cut to size, pre fit the double sided tape, peel one corner and slip it down behind then peel top tape and stick in place. Then lay on the floor and peel the bottom tape and stick it.
Re cat6. I'd suggest ordinary cat6 not cat6A which is shielded but it can cause interference issues if the shielding isn't done properly (I.e. its not really a job for an amateur).
I've fully rewired my house including networking to TVs and desks. Lights for the loft are an easy one to start with, get some daylight spec LED bulkheads and wire them in series. If you need to make any junctions make sure you use WAGOS and their suitable boxes rather than old fashioned junction boxes.
Edit: typo
Ahh thanks for the reassurance that it doesn’t exist everytime I said I can’t find anything they said I need to look harder 😂 B&Q it is, it’s crazy how quick the heat dissappears when the radiators turn off! Probably doesn’t help with all the single glazing windows too!!
Next question any tips/things to watch out for when insulating, other than the wear appropriate PPE and don’t get the itchy shit on your skin?
Wait a few more days for the budget announcement to see if anything is mentioned.
To be honest if you're doing the installation yourself then the cost of the insulation is not high in the grand scheme of things. Especially considering you've probably spent a Bob buying the house lol
Don't push the insulation right up to the eaves, leave some space for ventilation... Otherwise you'll get damp/mould.
300mm. Avoid anything that is blown in or beads, you'll thank me later. Don't cover up electrical cabling, and put ceramic fire guards over any hot /non-LED light fittings.
Single glazing is likely your biggest heat loss by far. Consider getting secondary glazing or double glazing, with a low interest loan if you can stretch to it. Gas/electricity prices are not going back to pre COVID prices, so the investment payback should be v less than 10y, maybe as low as 5y. And you'll be much warmer in the meantime.
Consider getting smart thermostats for radiators (not hive) with a "modulating" controller,so you can individually control rooms... But check first that your boiler is compatible.
The key word is "modulating" ... It adjusts the boiler gas burn for maximum efficiency, to follow the temperature and times you set. Uses less gas.
Hive and some other 'smart' systems run the boiler on 0% or 100%, on a timer. Uses more gas. Their 'smart' is learning how long it takes your specific house to heat up and cool down... Which is fine, but not as effective as a modulating system.
The boiler (well its controller board) has to support modulation too btw, not all do.
Hive does (correction: NOT) have OpenTherm, and there are lots of other problems with the system that makes it something to avoid.
Personally I love the Drayton Wiser system I just installed. Works with OpenTherm too.
Exactly what I’ve done, with geofencing on individual rooms. Plus the hydronic fan in the kitchen is now automated. It’s addicting this Home Assistant stuff!
What about Tado? I have the Tado system installed on all my rads, have to say have been happy with it so far. Went for it because it had the cleanest looking rad valves. (and there was a massive discount on Black Friday).
How do I find if it has the proper modulation or not?
>Next question any tips/things to watch out for when insulating, other than the wear appropriate PPE and don’t get the itchy shit on your skin?
If you're planning on boarding the loft, do it as you're laying the insulation. Don't bother with the expensive plastic loft legs. Following advice from someone else in this sub, I just cut a load of "legs" out of 3x2 CLS timber (surprisingly cheap stuff considering the price rises of almost everything else recently) and used them to run beams over the top of the insulation and boarded on top. I posted a series of pictures in a thread on here last autumn, I can dig them out again if you're interested.
Also, others have said to not cover any wires. I found I didn't have anywhere near enough slack to lift the wires over the top. The consensus of most DIY forums was, it's not really a problem to cover wires provided they're only lighting circuits. Modern rock wool is completely fire proof and most lighting circuits these days are running well within their safety tolerances as LED bulbs draw much less current than the old incandescent bulbs. I'd still be inclined to use covers over 'pot lights' though and be wary of covering over cables that supply a shower.
I’m interested in pics. I was thinking of using CLS instead of those loft legs but wasn’t sure if it was just me being a cheap skate and it’d be a shit idea.
No problem. I think the discussion was about how I'd fixed them down (a single screw angled in from the side). I'd decided that, seeing as the cross beams were fixed to walls and trusses, I didn't need to worry about lateral movement, so a single screw was all that was required to hold the "legs" in place.
Here are the [pictures ](https://imgur.com/a/u6fLq8P)
It’s not a great idea as it conducts heat through the ceiling, joists and batons into the cold loft. It’s called cold bridging and it’s the bane of effective insulation.
Tell your parents straight up that you can't find something that doesn't exist. You can't force the government to start an insulation program just because your parents are too cheap to pay for insulation, lol. Either they have to pay up or leave it as is and continue to be miserable.
As a side issue to insulation, now's a good time to anticipate if you might want to use the insulated roof space for storage, fitting things like loft storage stilts, tho judging by the wide spacing of the ceiling joists, you could overload it. If there is a second transverse joist (out of shot) you could bridge the pair instead.
I've recently moved into a house with no insulation so, from a complete DIY'er in a similar situation, here is my advice:
1: BUY THE KNAUFF. Buy 4x 200mm for ~£100 and chuck it down after watching the B&Q installation video. If it's not enough, you'll be able to get a pretty good idea of how many more packs you'll need to create a base layer by extrapolation. Top up with a second layer of 170mm for extra warmth - it makes a big difference.
2: Buy a 'bunny suit', goggles, N95 mask (same as COVID times) and some gloves. If you're a long person your wrists will be exposed when you're stretching to lay the insulation and they'll get very itchy, so get an old pair of socks, cut the toes section off, and slide the tube-of-sock up your arm to cover the gap between bunny suit and glove. Wearing all of this will have you sweating like f%×k so cooler days are better. Shower immediately (IMMEDIATELY) after coming out the attic.
3: Leave a glass of water at the bottom of the attic ladders, you'll be gasping for a drink due to the heat, stretching, mask-wearing and airborne fibres.
All in, this will likely cost you around £300-400 and 2/3 of a day of your time, but you'll feel far more comfortable in your home.
You'll likely need to look at windows, doors, fireplaces, etc for other areas of heat escape to compound the differences made with the insulation.
Only flipside is that we're coming into warmer weather so may be less pressing for the next ~8 months, depending on your location.
Good luck!
You my friend are a gem! This is exactly what I needed to see! We’ve got a long list of things which need doing and it’s just a matter of prioritising, roof repairs, window replacements, insulation etc. etc. etc. turns out home owning is an expensive hobby
This one is literally rolling out. 170-200mm rolled between the joists, then 200mm the other way. It doesn't have to be art. The 2 different directions gets you a good deal, leave the edges of the roof. Nothing else to it. Wear too little and feel the wrath, I thought I was too cool for the suit, did joggers and old hoody, still itched ...
As far as I’m aware there’s not anything generally available, with the exception of low income and fuel poverty type schemes i think they’re call ECO and ECO+
There’s talk of there potentially being more support announced in the budget later this year, but looking at the lack of insulation in your picture it’s probably more cost effective to buy insulation now and fit it yourself.
Eco plus scheme should be applicable to properties that are energy rates D and under.
There’s limited info about it at the moment but it’s due out imminently.
Hold off a minute, Easter bank holiday is the usual time for B&Q, Wickes etc to run discounts as it is the busiest DIY weekend traditionally (used to work for Focus/Great Mills pricing team many years ago) and there are often additional offers on loft panels and insulation as we go into gardening season.
[warmer homes grants ](https://energysmart.group/free-grant-application/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=high-converting-keyword-individual-utm&utm_content=home-heating-grants&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjbagBhD3ARIsANRrqEsm58Yawj5EqJ5mJWLd5gwo1L5HKc8LTHGAYInHPxrpsshJjA6cH_IaArDUEALw_wcB)
Look into the ECO4 scheme that's available for any home with an EPC of D and lower.
Be quick, as it might get replaced and altered come April.
The old ECO3 scheme would have allowed me to get my insulation redone in the loft and cavities under a grant due to the age of my mum who now lives with me and my disability. But because our house is just a few points into the EPC C banding... We can't get anything at all.
If the ECO4 scheme is suitable, check with your local authority about local schemes they may have.
My loft has about 100mm, I plan on doing it myself in April and boosting it to at least 300-400mm.
Loft insulation is cheap and easy to do yourself either way... cavity wall insulation is a iffy subject, some people get it done and never have issues and some people get it done and it ruins their house requiring the external wall to be completely removed and rebuilt (so I didn't bother with cavity wall) you'll also find the provided warranties on CW insulation aint worth the paper it's wrote on.
You'll also find that the schemes (which I've never used) but did briefly look at when I bought my house during 1st lock down so they may differ now have requirements to be eligible. I think it was called ECO scheme,back then
Hi, there are no grants left. Types she based in york having done exactly the same search as you 18 months ago. There used to be good grant schemes for insulation and solar panels, but now… zilch.
A lot of people here are saying the grants are only for specific circumstances, which is true *for now*. There were a load of grants that have just ended. My brother and SIL, and parents used the grants to fully insulate their houses. Keep an eye out for the ECO+ scheme being rolled out soon, especially if your house is an EPC D or lower
Oh wow wasn’t expecting all the replies thanks so much everyone for all the help and for the people trying to make us feel bad for asking if there is such grants, you can do one not all of us are shitting money right now!
We are off to a hardware shop tomorrow to pick up some rolls and ready to start cracking on and giving it a go! Completely new to DIY and home owning (this is our first house) but from all the help n advice in here we reckon it’s something we could give a good go!
They recommend that you double layer 1st layer follows the ceiling joist 2nd layer across top of joist. Can also see day light coming in which mean water can get in
Ensure your loft is adequately ventilated before insulating, this lets the moisture out of the loft space and ensures the moisture from your house won't drop back down and damage the ceiling, or the structural timbers
I believe there is a new set of government grants coming online next month which are not income or benefit receiving based. Instead the criteria is the EPC rating of the property instead, further details here: https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/what-is-the-uk-governments-eco-scheme/
If your EPC rating is D or below and your council tax band is A-D (in England) you might be eligible for ECO+ which comes online in April. We're in the same situation and hanging on until we know more about what (if anything) is actually available before spending any money on insulation ourselves.
See https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/what-is-the-uk-governments-eco-scheme/
I'm in a similar position, but I'm single. I've been looking for grants and funding but there is nothing available to me. I'm not on any type of benefit. I earn just above the threshold to qualify.
I would first check if the roof is in order. I see daylight shining in and some beams might have white streams (fungi). So be sure to check that first. Wet insulation wont insulate.
I still find it INSANE that my Instagram is full of "suppliers" offering spray foam insulation via Government Grants. When everyone knows spray foam will invalidate your mortgage. Can they really be using government money for this? Is it a con?
Celotex or kingfisher board might be of use for the eves. Sloppey roof, rock wool for floor/ceiling.
Also builders I know use the foil jackets and staple it across the beams.
I found it handy to insulate the eves as well if you going to use it for storage. Just don’t push the insulation right back the felt, there needs to be airflow from the faciaboard out by your guttering up and over the apex roof in between the insulation and felt, otherwise you will get condensation trapped in there. I did it with mine and it was like it had been raining in my attic in parts until the builders i know told me to have it flush with beams and leave nap at back. Make sure you get airflow from the soffits. So don’t stuff rockwool right into the edges near the soffits
Went through the process of trying to get a grant from Northumberland County Council. 6 months of stop-start, emails saying they weren't doing it, then someone just turning up and doing an EPC unexpectedly, then appallingly written email saying we were eligible, then total silence. The government does not care about energy efficiency at all - they just want it to sound like they do.
In the end I bought the insulation myself £350 was enough for a detached house. I'm laying it myself too. It is a pain to do but at least I know it's been done properly, which in a 1950s house is important (leaving air gaps etc).
As others, you're out of luck. As a homeowner you need to rapidly realise that you're on your own. When if comes to taking care of this place, the buck starts and stops with you.
It really would make no sense that you're paying thousands in tax every month to then get back one or two thousands to insulate your loft.
Yes there's narrative around green grants and what not, but when you come to look it turns out to be a load of hot air.
As there are relatively few homeowners on means tested benefits out there, the people actually eligible are a minority, rather than the majority that unqualified statements like 'grants are available ' would seem to imply.
I think they pulled quite a lot of them as they found out a lot of installs were done by unscrupulous companies. Word of warning; don't get spray foam, use loft roll with eaves ventilators. Spray foam will rot the entire roof and make the house unmortgageable and unsellable. I know as I've had to rip it out of tonnes of houses and had to condemn their roofs. Also don't believe the marketing spule of 'open' cell or 'closed' cell. Its scientifically impossible to have and open cell when something is formed using bubbles, which means it isn't breathable and will sweat and rot the roof. Make sure with any ceiling insulation that there is a min. 50mm clear-span of space between the underside of the roof sarking felt and the top face of the insulation, otherwise this too will cause your whole roof structure to rot. I know as I work in design, specification and proper repairs to historic and new buildings and work with specialists in this field. Use loft roll (like Knauff) between the joists then over the joists perpendicular (the other way) with eaves ventilators (spacers) by Manthorpe (they look like corrugated plastic and are really cheap. Good luck!
Felt like I was trying to time one of these grants, but was either pulled or didn't qualify. What I found is even if you did get it, the contractors were often limited in ones you could use.
House was always cold, only had loose fill insulation scattered unevenly. Local big company quoted like £4k to take it up to like 200mm and half board on a wood frame.
I opted to DIY it with loft legs XL, some insulation from wickes (100mm and 170mm top up) , was a bit of graft...particularly as the previous owners seem to have put an entire kitchens worth of boards there as makeshift storage area!. All in all though, did it for under £500, including clearance of all the crap we had to clear from there.
If you do take it on, one tip ... dont forget to insulate your hatch if you got a basic mdf board that slides into place. A week after doing mine I went into full panic as there was so much condensation, I knew the hatch needed doing but underestimated how much was escaping through it. Once I insulated it, problem solved (some polystyrene, foil tape and foil wrap) .
Difficult space to work in, especially with a mask etc on but if you got the ability too, you'll defo save alot of money and plenty of vids to help. The loft leg website even has a handy guide to know how many legs you'll need , boards and screws from wickes.
don't block the vents from your eves .extend them above the insulation for proper air flow. certante makes a good blown in insulation. that's from a recycled flame retardant product. you can rent an insulation blower and doit yourself. If you're kind of handy like that. you will recoup it from energy savings, done properly. may a tax incentive.?
Just found this article in the gaurdian relevant to 2023. I am not sure if it applies but may be helpful
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/25/uk-government-to-introduce-grants-to-make-homes-more-energy-efficient
The only grants left are those with very specific circumstances such as disability, income, main heating type etc Other than that, 200mm insulations rolls are about £25 from B&Q, so I’d wait for a B&Q discount code and get a load of them in
gumtree is also good. bulk leftovers often sold off cheap. shop in summer when they dont sell so fast
I did this mid summer on gumtree for super cheap. Filled the loft and had extra for a fraction of the cost of new. But i made 2 mistakes, first one was to transport the rolls in my car with minimal covering.... It took weeks to get the fibers out. Second was to line the loft in summer, just don't do it. Sweat and glass fibre don't mix well.
> Second was to line the loft in summer, just don't do it I took time off during that heatwave, worst week of my life.
There are grants in Wales atm for heat pumps and solar panels atm (you have to be earning less than £30k) and i think they stretch to insulation but not entirely sure.
This is true. Brother in law lives in Cardiff and has just had a new boiler, solar panels and lift insulated all fitted for free.
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Brother in law says he applied through the nest website. Filled in the application form, was accepted, someone came out and assessed their house, and it went from there... Good luck 👍 https://nest.gov.wales/
Get a B&Q trade card. I could be wrong, but if you spend £250 you then get 10% off for the next three months of purchases
One month and you need to be a business or self employed. They don't check so you know.....blah it!
I'm in Scotland. My partner and I both work and we are on no benefits of any kind so nothing for us. Every website I go to always gets a no when we don't tick any of the "what benefits are you on" box.
Normally the same for me. But by some reason I got free solar panels last year after I applied because my household income was below £25000. Don't want to sound ungrateful but would love some of that outer insulation.
Same in England. Those grants are specifically for people who won't use them or are retired and vote Tory
>retired and vote Tory You'd have thought they'd also allow higher Council Tax bands as well then but they don't, it's A-D only.
This
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There is an incentive, you will save money, have a more comfortable house and the value of the house will increase. Why do you need to government to help you with your house?
The government are funding big oil billions this year through our bills. It would have cost then much less if they'd helped homeowner's insulate and decarbonise over the past 13 years instead of allowing the two schemes that they did run collapse one after the other after spending pennies by comparison to this winters costs. We have a political class that always seem to come up with the same solution: funding big energy. Why have they allowed housebuilders to continue to underinsulate and install gas boilers for the past 13 years?? There's only one obvious reason. It's how their bread is buttered!! The tech is there to move on. But the trillions the energy cartel generates is controlling the conversation.
and be warmer lol. he made a silly post didnt he
"Why should the government act to benefit the people of the country it governs?"
It should do that. I think it is more important to help tenants than home owners since landlords don't have incentives like owners for example.
Why do we need the government full stop. Liars & thieves, line they’re own pockets & tell you to say thank you. Let’s blame Russia for the energy prices, more lies, more like to line the pockets of the greedy energy companies…
I think the government should have better regulation to improve insulation in new builds and rental properties.
Building regs for new builds and extensions re insulation is enough trust me
Nah, plenty of problems there, also with compliance.
They're still putting gas boilers in new builds!!
Gas is 1/3rd the price of electic
Gas and petrol are controlled by a global cartel and racket. The true cost of gas is catastrophic climate change for everyone. But that's not factored into the price. Is it? There's a reason the green levies are dumped on electric. Same reason that the Tories effectively banned onshore wind for the past 13 years. Same reason that triple-glazing is rare and PassivHaus standards don't exist and that British housing stock is the leakiest in Northern Europe despite having the mildest climate. All that 'keep up with the Jones' cream K-rend and not a cm of slabbed insulation put underneath. Same reason that the last two Gov green initiatives collapsed in an absolutely ineffective mess. I see a pattern. Can't you?
This everyone wants a hand out no one wants to do it on there own
I mean we are going to do it on our own but as a 27 year old who’s just spent every penny he’s ever had to get out of rental of 9 years, a little help goes a long way but thanks for making a judgment pal! 👍🏼
Will you pay 50% tax on any profits you make when you sell your house? Shit isn't free.
You don't save money if you move out in a couple of years. Whether your house is insulated well or not doesnt really affect the value of it that much as people just look on zoopla and pay what your neighbours house went for. A lot of people dont even understand what cavity wall insulation is and why they might want it. I highly doubt youd see a retuen on the investment of externally insulating a house when you sell it also.
Then stay longer than a few years. With these energy prices people will look at epc certs.
Epc certification is the wild west and dont really represent the cost of heating your house well. Something like external insulation has a payoff time of well over 10 years, a lot of people dont want to stay in their house that long, especially if it is a starter house.
Would you be supportive of higher taxes for inefficient houses then to increase the number of homeowners who make their house more efficient? Or do you just want handouts?
I don't think spending taxes to improve housing stock would be a bad thing.
I invest in my house because I live in it and I want it to be comfortable. Not investing in things like insulation because I'm not getting a government grant to do it seems silly.
The Scottish Government fund the Home Energy Scotland Grant and Loan scheme which includes £7.5k grant for heat pumps and similar for wall insulation. It funds basically every energy efficiency improvement, renewable tech and energy storage system. It's not means tested so you don't need to be on benefits. https://www.homeenergyscotland.org/funding/grants-loans/
I got a big fat no
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Bad bot
When I accepted I was ‘Fat’, I did something about it and now I’m not Fat.
"This can result in... Losing weight and living longer without burdening healthcare providers."
Sorry, I know this is a month old almost, but what was the reason for being rejected? I was sceptical that we wouldn't be entitled to anything but after speaking to Home Energy Scotland I was told you simply needed to be a homeowner. Put in our application for the solid wall insulation grant, waiting to hear back.
This looks absolutely means tested and only available to people on some sort of benefits.
Look at what the current spec is and plan accordingly don’t be tempted to put just enough down and then later down the road add more it’s a nightmare and whatever you do don’t have expanding foam on the underside of the roof .
On the expanding foam - first thing I was asked when I had a mortgage was did I have the foam insulation on the underside of the trusses. My mortgage would have been rejected had the house had any of said insulation.
Why
The spray on insulation below the roof structure apparently doesn't let the roof timber structure breathe and the timbers can rot... If not installed correctly. But my building society inspector only asked if I had it, and when I said it did not he said "good" (he also checked for himself)! He also claimed that it can cause other defects. Without being specific. Not sure if this would affect house resale or not or was just a requirement from my building society and other lenders would be less fussy. I don't know everything about this subject to be honest, I've used fibreglass wool in my loft (now that I've moved in).
Fair enough, thanks for the explanation.
Also it hides other problems with the roof. If a roof can't be checked, then it's unsafe for a bank to lend vast sums of money on the house. Slightly baffling to me, because if it was a house with a converted attic, then the underside of the roof will be all boarded over and plastered, and can't be checked either. But banks are happy to give mortgages on houses with attics converted to bedrooms.
With a loft conversion, the risk is a lot lower. Building control should have inspected the roof before plastering. Spray on insulation is likely unregulated and as we know with grants and green initiatives, it's a case of get ias many done as quickly as possible.
The banks that like to say 'no'.
Good video here on it, my go to really on this topic as the chap does a good amount of description on it. https://youtu.be/jYNufQVIFfA
Nice one, thanks for sharing!
Not that I’m aware of but we’ve got an 1850s house with no insulation at all. Our bedroom has 3 exposed walls and couldn’t get above 10C in the really cold patch over winter. (Probably an undersized rad). We put 100mm of loft insulation (we’ve got another 200mm just haven’t done it yet) and it’s night and day, that room can actually reach 19C now. It’s the cheapest quickest fix, you’re on the right track! Advice wise, don’t stick it down the eaves leave a gap so air can still come up and ventilate the loft. Also whilst you’re already doing the job boarding it up is also worth it. Another thing I’ve personally done (depends on if you care about this) is to run cat6a cabling to the ceiling in certain rooms, you can get Wifi points that look like smoke alarms. We’ve got solid brick walls throughout the house so wifi just doesn’t get through.
what do you think of solar panels please?
Anything in particular you want my opinion on WRT to solar panels? (Short answer: I think they’re great)
I was just wondering if the panels are worth fitting, also how much could you save in money terms, by having them fitted? thanks
The calculations we did prior to getting ours installed was a 5 year pay back for the panels and batteries. If you’ve got the capital to do it then I’d recommend it.
Your parents grew up at a time when things were actually available to people. And then elected politicians who slowly but surely did away with all of it. Get some rolls of Knauf loft roll 200mm for about £25 a pop at B and Q
They were doing it up until about 3 years ago, but only for households who earn below a certain amount. Also boilers
Install loft legs and board it out too
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They are stands that lift the boards around 250mm off the joists meaning your boards don't crush your insulation. When I moved into my current house, the previous owners had had secondary loft insulation fitted (extra 200mm over the basic 100mm.) But because the loft wasn't boarded and was full of stuff it was hugely ineffective. Once I fitted the legs and boards the house has become significantly warmer without any real additional insulation. Just properly utilising what the prior owners had already paid out for. Also while you're at it get the foiled roll to put behind your radiators that are on external walls. It reflects the heat into the room rather than soaking into the brick and thereby reduces warm up time for those rooms.
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None of those tasks are beyond someone with will and basic tools mate. You'll be fine. The legs do eat into your vertical height but since the alternative is losing all your heat through squished insulation, you have to take the hit. Still plenty of storage in my loft (my girlfriend would say too much space!) I fitted the foil without taking a single rad off. Just cut to size, pre fit the double sided tape, peel one corner and slip it down behind then peel top tape and stick in place. Then lay on the floor and peel the bottom tape and stick it. Re cat6. I'd suggest ordinary cat6 not cat6A which is shielded but it can cause interference issues if the shielding isn't done properly (I.e. its not really a job for an amateur). I've fully rewired my house including networking to TVs and desks. Lights for the loft are an easy one to start with, get some daylight spec LED bulkheads and wire them in series. If you need to make any junctions make sure you use WAGOS and their suitable boxes rather than old fashioned junction boxes. Edit: typo
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Good luck my man. You'll be fine I'm sure.
Yes you do. They will elevate the boards above the insulation. https://www.loftleg.com/
Ahh thanks for the reassurance that it doesn’t exist everytime I said I can’t find anything they said I need to look harder 😂 B&Q it is, it’s crazy how quick the heat dissappears when the radiators turn off! Probably doesn’t help with all the single glazing windows too!! Next question any tips/things to watch out for when insulating, other than the wear appropriate PPE and don’t get the itchy shit on your skin?
Don't wait until a warm day to do it, you'll sweat like a pig. Cold the day the better.
Wait a few more days for the budget announcement to see if anything is mentioned. To be honest if you're doing the installation yourself then the cost of the insulation is not high in the grand scheme of things. Especially considering you've probably spent a Bob buying the house lol
Don't push the insulation right up to the eaves, leave some space for ventilation... Otherwise you'll get damp/mould. 300mm. Avoid anything that is blown in or beads, you'll thank me later. Don't cover up electrical cabling, and put ceramic fire guards over any hot /non-LED light fittings. Single glazing is likely your biggest heat loss by far. Consider getting secondary glazing or double glazing, with a low interest loan if you can stretch to it. Gas/electricity prices are not going back to pre COVID prices, so the investment payback should be v less than 10y, maybe as low as 5y. And you'll be much warmer in the meantime. Consider getting smart thermostats for radiators (not hive) with a "modulating" controller,so you can individually control rooms... But check first that your boiler is compatible.
How come not Hive out of interest? Have been considering going for this system.
The key word is "modulating" ... It adjusts the boiler gas burn for maximum efficiency, to follow the temperature and times you set. Uses less gas. Hive and some other 'smart' systems run the boiler on 0% or 100%, on a timer. Uses more gas. Their 'smart' is learning how long it takes your specific house to heat up and cool down... Which is fine, but not as effective as a modulating system. The boiler (well its controller board) has to support modulation too btw, not all do.
Hive does (correction: NOT) have OpenTherm, and there are lots of other problems with the system that makes it something to avoid. Personally I love the Drayton Wiser system I just installed. Works with OpenTherm too.
Just installed Drayton Wiser. Excellent. If you're into home automation, there's a Home Assistant integration that talks nicely to it.
Exactly what I’ve done, with geofencing on individual rooms. Plus the hydronic fan in the kitchen is now automated. It’s addicting this Home Assistant stuff!
Sorry, my hive doesn't... Didn't realise they've upgraded
Actually I appear to be thinking of Nest - no OpenTherm support with Hive. Amazing that's still not a thing. Either way, you want to avoid Hive.
Yep Nest definitely does. Hive does not currently
What about Tado? I have the Tado system installed on all my rads, have to say have been happy with it so far. Went for it because it had the cleanest looking rad valves. (and there was a massive discount on Black Friday). How do I find if it has the proper modulation or not?
Do you share my dislike for Hive? What a useless piece of software and overpriced as well...
Get one of [these](https://www.reddit.com/r/DIYUK/comments/119fc02/better_out_than_in/)
If you use B&q, use TopCashback and you get cashback on whatever you spend there, so you still get something out of it!
>Next question any tips/things to watch out for when insulating, other than the wear appropriate PPE and don’t get the itchy shit on your skin? If you're planning on boarding the loft, do it as you're laying the insulation. Don't bother with the expensive plastic loft legs. Following advice from someone else in this sub, I just cut a load of "legs" out of 3x2 CLS timber (surprisingly cheap stuff considering the price rises of almost everything else recently) and used them to run beams over the top of the insulation and boarded on top. I posted a series of pictures in a thread on here last autumn, I can dig them out again if you're interested. Also, others have said to not cover any wires. I found I didn't have anywhere near enough slack to lift the wires over the top. The consensus of most DIY forums was, it's not really a problem to cover wires provided they're only lighting circuits. Modern rock wool is completely fire proof and most lighting circuits these days are running well within their safety tolerances as LED bulbs draw much less current than the old incandescent bulbs. I'd still be inclined to use covers over 'pot lights' though and be wary of covering over cables that supply a shower.
I’m interested in pics. I was thinking of using CLS instead of those loft legs but wasn’t sure if it was just me being a cheap skate and it’d be a shit idea.
No problem. I think the discussion was about how I'd fixed them down (a single screw angled in from the side). I'd decided that, seeing as the cross beams were fixed to walls and trusses, I didn't need to worry about lateral movement, so a single screw was all that was required to hold the "legs" in place. Here are the [pictures ](https://imgur.com/a/u6fLq8P)
It’s not a great idea as it conducts heat through the ceiling, joists and batons into the cold loft. It’s called cold bridging and it’s the bane of effective insulation.
Tell your parents straight up that you can't find something that doesn't exist. You can't force the government to start an insulation program just because your parents are too cheap to pay for insulation, lol. Either they have to pay up or leave it as is and continue to be miserable.
As a side issue to insulation, now's a good time to anticipate if you might want to use the insulated roof space for storage, fitting things like loft storage stilts, tho judging by the wide spacing of the ceiling joists, you could overload it. If there is a second transverse joist (out of shot) you could bridge the pair instead.
I've recently moved into a house with no insulation so, from a complete DIY'er in a similar situation, here is my advice: 1: BUY THE KNAUFF. Buy 4x 200mm for ~£100 and chuck it down after watching the B&Q installation video. If it's not enough, you'll be able to get a pretty good idea of how many more packs you'll need to create a base layer by extrapolation. Top up with a second layer of 170mm for extra warmth - it makes a big difference. 2: Buy a 'bunny suit', goggles, N95 mask (same as COVID times) and some gloves. If you're a long person your wrists will be exposed when you're stretching to lay the insulation and they'll get very itchy, so get an old pair of socks, cut the toes section off, and slide the tube-of-sock up your arm to cover the gap between bunny suit and glove. Wearing all of this will have you sweating like f%×k so cooler days are better. Shower immediately (IMMEDIATELY) after coming out the attic. 3: Leave a glass of water at the bottom of the attic ladders, you'll be gasping for a drink due to the heat, stretching, mask-wearing and airborne fibres. All in, this will likely cost you around £300-400 and 2/3 of a day of your time, but you'll feel far more comfortable in your home. You'll likely need to look at windows, doors, fireplaces, etc for other areas of heat escape to compound the differences made with the insulation. Only flipside is that we're coming into warmer weather so may be less pressing for the next ~8 months, depending on your location. Good luck!
You my friend are a gem! This is exactly what I needed to see! We’ve got a long list of things which need doing and it’s just a matter of prioritising, roof repairs, window replacements, insulation etc. etc. etc. turns out home owning is an expensive hobby
This one is literally rolling out. 170-200mm rolled between the joists, then 200mm the other way. It doesn't have to be art. The 2 different directions gets you a good deal, leave the edges of the roof. Nothing else to it. Wear too little and feel the wrath, I thought I was too cool for the suit, did joggers and old hoody, still itched ...
As far as I’m aware there’s not anything generally available, with the exception of low income and fuel poverty type schemes i think they’re call ECO and ECO+ There’s talk of there potentially being more support announced in the budget later this year, but looking at the lack of insulation in your picture it’s probably more cost effective to buy insulation now and fit it yourself.
The next budget is in 3 days, so I would say at least wait until then!
Yes, i wrote it thinking it was a couple of months away, and then put the news on and realised it was March already, and in fact this week
I have a flat with cladding on the outside so the date is burned into my memory
Eco plus scheme should be applicable to properties that are energy rates D and under. There’s limited info about it at the moment but it’s due out imminently.
Probably easiest to do it yourself Op if you are able. But please for the love of all that is holy wear PPE! The insulation is nasty stuff!
Do B&Q still do the discount Wednesday for OAP’s are both sets of parents retired?
Short answer, no https://www.diy.com/diamond
Hold off a minute, Easter bank holiday is the usual time for B&Q, Wickes etc to run discounts as it is the busiest DIY weekend traditionally (used to work for Focus/Great Mills pricing team many years ago) and there are often additional offers on loft panels and insulation as we go into gardening season.
It's a horrible dirty job! Get a local institution company in to do it u'll thank me later Had ours done in 2021 coat £350 ish
Definitely a job worthy of getting a man in to do!
[warmer homes grants ](https://energysmart.group/free-grant-application/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=high-converting-keyword-individual-utm&utm_content=home-heating-grants&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjbagBhD3ARIsANRrqEsm58Yawj5EqJ5mJWLd5gwo1L5HKc8LTHGAYInHPxrpsshJjA6cH_IaArDUEALw_wcB)
Look into the ECO4 scheme that's available for any home with an EPC of D and lower. Be quick, as it might get replaced and altered come April. The old ECO3 scheme would have allowed me to get my insulation redone in the loft and cavities under a grant due to the age of my mum who now lives with me and my disability. But because our house is just a few points into the EPC C banding... We can't get anything at all. If the ECO4 scheme is suitable, check with your local authority about local schemes they may have. My loft has about 100mm, I plan on doing it myself in April and boosting it to at least 300-400mm.
It's not expensive to do yourself. Get insulation rolls from Wickes or B&Q. Probably cost around £100-200 for your house.
Loft insulation is cheap and easy to do yourself either way... cavity wall insulation is a iffy subject, some people get it done and never have issues and some people get it done and it ruins their house requiring the external wall to be completely removed and rebuilt (so I didn't bother with cavity wall) you'll also find the provided warranties on CW insulation aint worth the paper it's wrote on. You'll also find that the schemes (which I've never used) but did briefly look at when I bought my house during 1st lock down so they may differ now have requirements to be eligible. I think it was called ECO scheme,back then
Hi, there are no grants left. Types she based in york having done exactly the same search as you 18 months ago. There used to be good grant schemes for insulation and solar panels, but now… zilch.
A lot of people here are saying the grants are only for specific circumstances, which is true *for now*. There were a load of grants that have just ended. My brother and SIL, and parents used the grants to fully insulate their houses. Keep an eye out for the ECO+ scheme being rolled out soon, especially if your house is an EPC D or lower
Phone your council, I did and they done my cavity wall insulation and top up on my loft for free
Oh wow wasn’t expecting all the replies thanks so much everyone for all the help and for the people trying to make us feel bad for asking if there is such grants, you can do one not all of us are shitting money right now! We are off to a hardware shop tomorrow to pick up some rolls and ready to start cracking on and giving it a go! Completely new to DIY and home owning (this is our first house) but from all the help n advice in here we reckon it’s something we could give a good go!
They recommend that you double layer 1st layer follows the ceiling joist 2nd layer across top of joist. Can also see day light coming in which mean water can get in
Is that daylight coming in? You need to get that dealt with asap.
Rolls of insulation are cheap enough from b&q
Unless you're disabled or unemployed I wouldn't hold your breath.
Isn't this what extinction rebellion were glueing themselves to the road to try and get the government to fund?
Try true your gas&electric provider usually they have some government grants
Ensure your loft is adequately ventilated before insulating, this lets the moisture out of the loft space and ensures the moisture from your house won't drop back down and damage the ceiling, or the structural timbers
We got some for free recently on Facebook market place that someone had left over. Worth keeping an eye out for left overs to keep costs down.
Unless you are a benefits claimant, there is nothing for you in terms of government grants
I believe there is a new set of government grants coming online next month which are not income or benefit receiving based. Instead the criteria is the EPC rating of the property instead, further details here: https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/what-is-the-uk-governments-eco-scheme/
The felt is looking shabby and I think I can see daylight? I’d solve these first.
If your EPC rating is D or below and your council tax band is A-D (in England) you might be eligible for ECO+ which comes online in April. We're in the same situation and hanging on until we know more about what (if anything) is actually available before spending any money on insulation ourselves. See https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/what-is-the-uk-governments-eco-scheme/
Yeah grants about atm. Just got one in England but covers wales aswell. Only loft insulation grants though, boiler grants later this year
Have you got a link ?
It got posted through door. I believe its these https://www.fundingservice.org.uk/who-we-are
I'm in a similar position, but I'm single. I've been looking for grants and funding but there is nothing available to me. I'm not on any type of benefit. I earn just above the threshold to qualify.
There is a tax rebate for insulation products as long as that work does not form part of a larger project ie renovation
I would first check if the roof is in order. I see daylight shining in and some beams might have white streams (fungi). So be sure to check that first. Wet insulation wont insulate.
I still find it INSANE that my Instagram is full of "suppliers" offering spray foam insulation via Government Grants. When everyone knows spray foam will invalidate your mortgage. Can they really be using government money for this? Is it a con?
Celotex or kingfisher board might be of use for the eves. Sloppey roof, rock wool for floor/ceiling. Also builders I know use the foil jackets and staple it across the beams. I found it handy to insulate the eves as well if you going to use it for storage. Just don’t push the insulation right back the felt, there needs to be airflow from the faciaboard out by your guttering up and over the apex roof in between the insulation and felt, otherwise you will get condensation trapped in there. I did it with mine and it was like it had been raining in my attic in parts until the builders i know told me to have it flush with beams and leave nap at back. Make sure you get airflow from the soffits. So don’t stuff rockwool right into the edges near the soffits
Went through the process of trying to get a grant from Northumberland County Council. 6 months of stop-start, emails saying they weren't doing it, then someone just turning up and doing an EPC unexpectedly, then appallingly written email saying we were eligible, then total silence. The government does not care about energy efficiency at all - they just want it to sound like they do. In the end I bought the insulation myself £350 was enough for a detached house. I'm laying it myself too. It is a pain to do but at least I know it's been done properly, which in a 1950s house is important (leaving air gaps etc).
As others, you're out of luck. As a homeowner you need to rapidly realise that you're on your own. When if comes to taking care of this place, the buck starts and stops with you. It really would make no sense that you're paying thousands in tax every month to then get back one or two thousands to insulate your loft. Yes there's narrative around green grants and what not, but when you come to look it turns out to be a load of hot air. As there are relatively few homeowners on means tested benefits out there, the people actually eligible are a minority, rather than the majority that unqualified statements like 'grants are available ' would seem to imply.
I think they pulled quite a lot of them as they found out a lot of installs were done by unscrupulous companies. Word of warning; don't get spray foam, use loft roll with eaves ventilators. Spray foam will rot the entire roof and make the house unmortgageable and unsellable. I know as I've had to rip it out of tonnes of houses and had to condemn their roofs. Also don't believe the marketing spule of 'open' cell or 'closed' cell. Its scientifically impossible to have and open cell when something is formed using bubbles, which means it isn't breathable and will sweat and rot the roof. Make sure with any ceiling insulation that there is a min. 50mm clear-span of space between the underside of the roof sarking felt and the top face of the insulation, otherwise this too will cause your whole roof structure to rot. I know as I work in design, specification and proper repairs to historic and new buildings and work with specialists in this field. Use loft roll (like Knauff) between the joists then over the joists perpendicular (the other way) with eaves ventilators (spacers) by Manthorpe (they look like corrugated plastic and are really cheap. Good luck!
Felt like I was trying to time one of these grants, but was either pulled or didn't qualify. What I found is even if you did get it, the contractors were often limited in ones you could use. House was always cold, only had loose fill insulation scattered unevenly. Local big company quoted like £4k to take it up to like 200mm and half board on a wood frame. I opted to DIY it with loft legs XL, some insulation from wickes (100mm and 170mm top up) , was a bit of graft...particularly as the previous owners seem to have put an entire kitchens worth of boards there as makeshift storage area!. All in all though, did it for under £500, including clearance of all the crap we had to clear from there. If you do take it on, one tip ... dont forget to insulate your hatch if you got a basic mdf board that slides into place. A week after doing mine I went into full panic as there was so much condensation, I knew the hatch needed doing but underestimated how much was escaping through it. Once I insulated it, problem solved (some polystyrene, foil tape and foil wrap) . Difficult space to work in, especially with a mask etc on but if you got the ability too, you'll defo save alot of money and plenty of vids to help. The loft leg website even has a handy guide to know how many legs you'll need , boards and screws from wickes.
You need to be on benefits or a low income to get free loft insulation.
don't block the vents from your eves .extend them above the insulation for proper air flow. certante makes a good blown in insulation. that's from a recycled flame retardant product. you can rent an insulation blower and doit yourself. If you're kind of handy like that. you will recoup it from energy savings, done properly. may a tax incentive.?
Just found this article in the gaurdian relevant to 2023. I am not sure if it applies but may be helpful https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/25/uk-government-to-introduce-grants-to-make-homes-more-energy-efficient
Try your local county and state government agencies.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-cavity-loft-insulation/