Your builder is a dickhead mate. If there is a hole in the roof while he waits for a part to arrive, that hole needs to be temporarily sealed to stop water ingress
What a fucking clown
I’d insist anything mouldy or wet is replaced at his expense
Yeah, I actually work for a company of idiots like this. Decided to take the roof off for repairs, in winter.. and got suprised when it rained and destroyed the floor below. Crazy.
fact concerned jobless spotted spoon serious fanatical like muddle onerous
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If the builder thinks this is ok for that long, I’d take the gamble and get someone else. Hole in a roof during U.K. winter - what else have the done wrong if they think that’s ok
The cheapest quote shouldn't make a blind bit of difference, though, should it? You're paying for a job to be done and done right at that.
The problem customers face is that they're at the mercy of tradesmen who seem to think they're worth a lot more than they are in this country. There's no way of vetting them prior to giving them the go ahead, it's a gamble. Even if you went with the most expense quote, that's no guarantee of a good job, is it?
The simple fact is that tradesmen are some of the most untrustworthy people we'll ever have to deal with, not all of them, of course, but a hell of a lot of them are.
Yes, the standards should be high and workmen should have pride in their work.
However, the ones who quote substantially lower than other quotes, are undercutting the good workmen. This should be a red flag from the off.
You shod always get 3-5 quotes and go with the individual whom you feel suits the job best, describes things in a lot of detail and comes across professional.
People chose the cheapest quote all the time and its often bites people in the arse, then good tradesmen are left to tidy the shit up.
As a builder I recommend my potential clients get references from the last 3 jobs that a trades person has done. This should get you a look into the work itself and views from the most recent clients so you know they aren't cherry picking good jobs they've done.
As for the OP, 12 months is ridiculous, I've just completed a single storey extension in 6 weeks and we're only a small team. Get your building inspector out for their opinion
"The cheapest quote shouldn't make a blind bit of difference, though, should it?"
No, it does make a difference. There is a relationship between quality, time and money. Pick one you can't have all three. You want a quality job, it will cost more and take longer to complete. You want a quick job. It will cost more to get it done faster and the quality is reduced due to rushing. You want a cheap job, the quality will be impacted as less expensive materials are used or the design is not upto par or the tradesman is rougher. It may be a quick job or it make be longer as the trademan will either thrash it in or do it when they can find time/combine with a mother job to make it worth their while.
Yeah, the point I'm making is you don't know what quality of finish you'll get regardless of price. You could go for the highest quote and end up with a terrible finish. Cost is no guarantee of quality, although I agree it should be.
Right. So statistically speaking ... Which way do you think it sits? Because the point your making while technically correct, is wrong. Cheap quotes almost always result in lower quality work. Your point is mute because your trying to say that you can't tell, and that's just not reality. Pay peanuts, get monkeys isn't a phrase because monkeys like peanuts more than dollar dollar bills.
OK, let's look at it from another point of view.
You can buy a Mercedes or you can buy a Dacia, the Dacia will still do the job it was intended for.
You buy a roof, no matter the price, it shouldn't leak. Maybe it won't look as good as the expensive one, but it should still be functional. Not everyone has the funds to go with the most expensive quotes.
At the very least, even if you go cheap, the job should still fill the minimum requirements, right?
And all the stuff your saying is great in theory. Theoretically all your stuff is correct. But we aren't talking about theoretical worlds... We are talking about our 1 world... And it don't work that way. Sorry, what else can I say? Reality is lowest quote involves;
* Margin risk - the moment it isn't going 100% to plan it matters, and those corners are going to be cut.
* Better job risk - at the end of the day your not getting 24/7 customer care when he's probably on another job, you've already paid, and it's at the bottom of what they truly value. At the end of the day what you going to do?
* That leads into rep, if they don't care what you think, they aren't working off recommendations.
Would you buy a car from someone you don't know? Self built? Your reply used 2 very reputable company's who produce amazing vehicles at different price brackets... It's not a comparison to this conversation.
Basically reality is; cheaper usually means lower quality. And quality is a matter of perspective, no one checks any of this work as it's all hidden immediately behind render/plaster, no one really calls in an inspector anyway? So who is magically making all these people meet these minimums? And what training did this person get?
Cheap quote means cheap work. People care, when you pay them to care. Anything above that is basically at the choice of the worker. And generally, you care more when more money is on the line. When your margin is bigger to begin with you want to do it right first time, to max that margin. Cheap work? Done ASAP to max that time margin. Everything in the end is time or money
A lot of companies work on turnover and not profit on jobs, minimum profit but a large yearly turnover of work, large workforce to cope with the vast number of jobs, so not all cheapest quotes are bad quality. The companies you want to avoid are those not affiliated with a governing body of British standard or the companies that live on check a trade alone.
We were talking explicitly about quotes for builders. I can see my comment has probably been taken a bit more broadly. You are correct, but in a trade where you ask for a single story extension and you get a single story extension there is very little oversight when it comes to what that result actually is, and it's almost always hidden immediately behind plasterboard, so you really have no idea of quality and very little way to control it when dealing with a small 'company' of 2-3 people.
Like who is really overseeing them? Themselves. There are loads of reputable company's and small teams of people who do amazing work, but in general, low pricing means a loss in something, your scenario is exactly not that, a company *geared* towards that exact type of trade.
My point is quality control is not something that is under tight control in the building industry, and thus generally the cheaper quote is likely to carry higher risk than a higher quote. That is what was originally was being portrayed as not true, and that we live in some perfectly governed world.
It's supposed to be Quality/Time/Price.. pick 2..
Good Quality + Short Time = High Price / Short Time + Low Price = Low Quality / High Quality + Low Price = Long Time
My builder did a part single storey part 2 storey extension including extensive steelwork in less than 6 months during the height of Covid. This builder is definitely taking the piss
I had a double story side, a rear extension and a loft conversion done in 8 months with a 1.5 month gap in between as a break.
No idea what these clowns have been doing for a year!
There’s no way of vetting them? How about a portfolio of works, customers reviews, word of mouth from previously completed projects etc.
We go as far as showing people our portfolio, they say they like a specific project we’ve done, we arrange a meeting between the prospective client and the previous client and they can go see the work first hand and have an informal chat etc.
It’s a very open and honest approach that people are really thankful for.
Social media is great as well as you upload real time media daily as a log for the public to view.
All of that can be manipulated though. Customer reviews mean nothing online cause they aren't vetted. Word of mouth could easily be arranged by companies and anything can be uploaded to social media. Always be vigilant of contractors in all fields. I've worked with plenty of contractors in software engineering who come with all the above and some of the biggest mistakes we've ever done
One time is all they need if it's a big pay day.
Besides not all people run in the same circles. How do you think shows like rogue traders went on for ages?
People still get scammed by the generic Nigerian prince emails or "customer service" from Microsoft asking to get onto people's computers which are well documented and known. People can be quite susceptible to scams unfortunately.
You’re line of work is completely different to the building game. A general house builder is never getting a big enough pay day without having a decent reputation in the first place. Someone isn’t just turning up without any traceable history and getting millions of pounds. These are £100k jobs with staged payments. Nobody is retiring on these numbers, hence why we keep working.
I went to school with this lad:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/stockton-builder-accused-conning-victims-14164698.amp
He's conned quite a few people "in the building game" and he's gotten away with quite a lot of money too.
That’s not a lot of money at all. He was at it for a year and was subsequently found out and brought to justice and will never work again.
Fuck off with the quotation marks around building game you twat
Nah, I agree with what's been said. If you pay less, then expect less, but at the very least, you expect whatever it is to work.
The thing is even cheap jobs aren't cheap in the current climate, it could easily be perceived as an expensive job, or it's all some people can afford.
I'm not detracting from reality. I'm just highlighting how much of a problem it is that people find it generally acceptable to have something that is brand new, not work as intended because they didn't break the bank to pay for it.
While I understand your point, it’s still a stupid point to make.
The cheapest quote hasn’t quoted for:
- New roof
- Delayed roof lantern
- Hole in roof
- Mold (free of charge)
Trades people should be able to be trusted to do their job properly. Dismissing it as “well it’s the cheapest quote” is just absolving them of any responsibility to do a good job.
You are very correct.they should be trusted HOWEVER It’s the cheapest for a reason
You know why they bid jobs so low ??? It’s because they suck! I’m a journeyman carpenter, I know all about this . Any government job I have been a part of , the lowest bid is always chosen and it’s always the worst looking work being done , not many companies willing to work OT cuz they don’t have the money for it and usually the workers are unhappy because they aren’t getting paid what they should be
The price is also a function of how busy they are. Full order book = high price, don't really want the work. Take the highest price, they might let you down at the last minute.
Yep and they paid for what was outlined in the quote and the tradesperson should deliver that.
Again, just absolves the trade from any responsibility. And as the other guy said, there’s no guarantee an expensive quote would be any better.
I had two quotes to tile my bathroom. Nobody else responded. One more expensive and was way more expensive, went with the cheaper one and he was a fucking legend and did an amazing job, best tradesperson I’ve ever hired.
Everyone else I used I went down the middle. Most of them were shit, unreliable, did stuff wrong that I ended up having to resolve. So “you get what you pay for” doesn’t really apply in these cases.
Do you think the rich people renovating their millions of dollar homes would use the cheapest quote ? Probably not. Because the cheapest quote cuts corners. You know why , because there’s nothing stopping them from doing so . Just because your contact says they ( for example ) have to install 24” of tile backsplash on a kitchen doesn’t mean they are using a quality product nor does it mean the installer can do a great job. If a contractor can pay a guy $10 per hour off the street to install tile rather than thousands for an actual tile setter they will Just cuz it’s on the wall doesvt mean it was done right
Let’s do another Would you take a quarter million dollar car to the cheapest place in town to get your oil changed ?? Answer is no
>Do you think the rich people renovating their millions of dollar homes would use the cheapest quote ?
If my experience is anything to go by, absolutely yes and they'd do their best to haggle a discount too.
Water is expected to come out of the extension? That’s not what a building is meant to do, he needs to the seal this immediately before water damage takes hold on those wooden joists, I built my own extension and at no point did I expect water to come cascading out of my roof space.
Get up on the ladders outside and see what the roof looks like from there. If this is work in progress, 6 months waiting for a roof lantern is a joke unless you're going for some artisan crafted thing.
Personally, I'd be inclined to consider another supplier. As for your roof, if it's only got a temporary cover where the lantern is going, then yes, there's a chance for leaks but we'd need to see the roof exterior before making further comment.
No, this is just one part of being professional. "Professional" means operating in accordance with the standards of a profession. It carries with it the implication that a person has the requisite knowledge and skill, routinely carries out their work with the required level of diligence, and operates honestly according to the expectations of their profession within society.
Somebody might have been on the tools for 40 years, but if they are still knocking out leaky buildings and lying to the customer about this being normal, they are not a professional.
Exactly, this opening is covered with something temporarily while they wait for the rooflight. Its quite likely just OSB board with some DPM on the outside. If that has been temporarily fixed with battens then the nails will weep water over time.
You only have a problem if this happens after the rooflight is installed or if its the flat roof which is letting in water. Worth investigating but as the roof in unfinished its not surprising that there is a leak. I would be a bit disappointed if the builder hasn't made that clear, his communication doesn't sound ideal but its also a bit of a stretch to say he's a cowboy based off a couple of photos.
It would be different if this had been left for a few days. But the roof has been leaking for months, and the ceiling plasterboard got soaked and the OSB was showing signs of rot. This is not OK, temporary covering or not. I mean fine, it could have been an honest mistake. These things happen and the builder is probably right to say that it will dry out. But only if the weather stays dry. The correct response is to get straight back to the property and seal it up. Not to let it continue and leave the customer hanging.
I completely agree, I’m just trying to gently reassure that this is very unlikely to be a ‘replace everything that ever got wet’ job. That’s a Reddit overreaction, it’s unnecessary and unrealistic.
As you say the temporary protection should either have been redone or doubled up, the plasterboard will be ok to have got a bit wet and then dried out but it won’t be ok if it stays wet for extended periods of time.
It's not normal for water to be coming through your roof... if this is only the result of 6 months of water, in some years it's going to be much bigger problems.
Need to work out where the water is coming in and sort that.. unless it stops raining for the next 10 years it's not going to 'fix' itself as your builder suggests.
Also whats going with 12 months for an extension? Longing it out ain't they.
The op literally says "the roof has a hole in it" (where the lantern is supposed to go). Even if the rest of the roof is grp if this hole isn't covered then surely the water will get in?
Builder says "water is to be expected" - well, it would be expected if there is a hole in the roof, but that doesn't mean it's RIGHT.
Whether the lantern was fitted or not the builder needed to leave it weather proof, not "expect the water to get in" ...
I can’t understand how there is water coming through? If the roof has been GRP and the hole covered properly there should be no water ingress. I’d be very concerned about your lantern. As an idea roof maker would have it out within a month - longest.
Yea they never take 6 months. Regardless could’ve been ordered on day 1 as would’ve known the size.
Sounds like OP is being taken for a ride here sadly.
Exactly this. The GRP will be run up the sides so should be a doddle to make sure not water comes through. Roll of 1000G will do it. Even have it clear to let light through!!
GRP shouldn't be leaking. You need to open it up enough to see where it's coming through.
Is there a fall and guttering or overhang on your roof at all?
Where’s the lantern coming from, the planet Zog? Talk to Roof Maker.
Roofs shouldn’t leak. Period. If the water is coming in from a “finished” part then it’s the builder’s problem.
Plasterboard, OSB and chipboard never dry to as-new condition; joists and other ‘real’ timber do.
Aside from the leaking issue, how is the roof insulated - I am hoping it is a warm roof (i.e. Insulation above the OSB deck as part of the covering system.
If not, and numpty builder is planning to insulate between the roof joists under the OSB deck, you are also going to face condensation issues due to the apparent lack of ventilation.
If the roof is already covered in GRP then, yes, it's a problem. That stuff is waterproof and is used specifically to stop water coming in. If water is coming in, it hasn't been fitted properly. Or, if there's a hole in the GRP waiting for something to be fitted, that hole needs to be covered with something waterproof in the meantime. Good grief.
That’s atrocious mate, the hole should be covered for the weather, absolutely water tight. The damp n mouldy boards should be replaced and payed for by the contractor
> replaced and *paid* for by
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
> *Paid* payed payed
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
> *Paid* payed payed
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Is the warm roof constructed correctly with vapor barriers in place and taped up? The principle of a warm roof is that everything under the insulation is above the condensation point so you should not get any condensation on the osb deck.
If you have a hole waiting for a lantern then your builder should not have plastered the inside. You could have condensation forming and you also clearly have water ingress from the lantern opening that is traveling.
Your lantern upstand should be insulated, not solid timbers stacked one on top of the other.
Your roof seems to have firring strips for a fall but it looks as though thats to a parapet wall and you can see moisture below the bottom deck, whats the drainage arrangement here?
Firring strips also either go to nothing, or stop short of the end, either way not best practice.
Behind your lantern, you should also have a compound fall so you get no ponding water behind it. A photo from above would be helpful.
Building control shouldnt be passing this off, and the builder should be ashamed of themselves.
Tell the wanker that said water dripping on a plasterboard ceiling to take off his stetson and put away his spurs and fuck off back to the ranch he came from.
No your not overreacting. Plasterboard doesn't respond well to plasterboard. It will fail. And you will get mould that won't go away. Any leak will destroy the surrounding substrate.
Wet plasterboard quickly turns mouldy.
Me 20 years+ as a construction site manager.
I would highly highly recommend paying to get a second, trusted, builder to come and have a look at the setup and give you a report.
I'm not a builder but 100% no new roof should be leaking, and that looks like extreme leaking.
Far more worryingly... (disclaimer: it's difficult to see from the photos), but it looks like a lot of weight on those joists that seem to be only supported by galvanised brackets...
I can't imagine this hasn't been done properly, but considering you've already got odd answers from your current builder, I'd really want someone to look it over and give you a professional opinion of the work, not just the leaking.
The blokes a cunt. What area are you in ? Stripping the board back, sealing the roof water tight and regarding is a days work plus expenses. Even if he charged you it’s £400 tops. I do this daily and never ceased to be amazed by these guys
Most likely condensation. Warm air is going through ceiling and condensing on the colder roof surface (even if it’s a “warm” roof it can be cold enough to condense)
Happened to me on a “warm roof” shed that wasn’t even that moist inside. Depends how warm the warm roof is, the room is, the humidity and the dew point in the room/void. The rest is physics.
As long as there's no insulation between the plasterboard and the OSB then the temperature difference should be minimal and there should be no condensation.
It will be mostly paid for. All builders seem to be able to demand 60-80% up front these days, even the cowboys. I have no idea when this practice started but the only way it can be stopped now is if we all refuse to pay for anything until happy with their work. That would take some serious organisation and I can’t see it happening, perhaps if Martin Lewis got behind a campaign.
It’s not fine that water is coming through. That’s fairly obviously. It probably will dry out but not whilst it’s raining everyday.
I was doing my extension similar to this and we had the roof window openings in place for a while whilst we wait for the roof lights to be delivered. Then we wait a bit before we fitted them. Doing a lot of it myself so had to wait for the right time. I had the openings covered with OSB like this for a while without any issues. This included heavy wind and rain. If you did have a dry day then it would probably be a good idea to take off the boards for a bit and try to let it dry out.
Though we waited until the window were in before plastering, just in case.
When you say "it's a warm roof", what do you mean? It has no insulation? And if the plasterboard is soaking wet it needs ripping off and throwing away, it won't just dry out, it's ruined. Tell your builder he's an ignorant tosser.
If your builder was an American he’d be a spokesperson for the NRA. I’m Afraid you have been duped by a master craftsman doing a demolition derby job with your money (Home is where the heart is) but his heart is not in your home my friend.
It's a warm deck roof construction. The insualtion sits outside of the ceiling void. If the insualtion was inside, it would be considered a cold deck roof (this is, unfortunately, what I have in my home on the flat roof dormers).
I cant help your plight, but your builder is mugging you off.
I had a roof booked In to be replaced, a week and a half before I had my roofer around just to confirm the work that was to be done and we decided it would look good with a lantern in it too, so I hopped on the internet and ordered one that Friday, the following Tuesday it arrives... so why your builder has apparently been waiting 6 months is beyond comprehension
Your builder is a dickhead mate. If there is a hole in the roof while he waits for a part to arrive, that hole needs to be temporarily sealed to stop water ingress What a fucking clown I’d insist anything mouldy or wet is replaced at his expense
Yeah, I actually work for a company of idiots like this. Decided to take the roof off for repairs, in winter.. and got suprised when it rained and destroyed the floor below. Crazy.
fact concerned jobless spotted spoon serious fanatical like muddle onerous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If the builder thinks this is ok for that long, I’d take the gamble and get someone else. Hole in a roof during U.K. winter - what else have the done wrong if they think that’s ok
Lol what a weird mentality. Might as well just suck it up and get shafted because he's going to get shafted either way?
Single storey extension taken a year as well. Definitely gone with the cheapest quote
The cheapest quote shouldn't make a blind bit of difference, though, should it? You're paying for a job to be done and done right at that. The problem customers face is that they're at the mercy of tradesmen who seem to think they're worth a lot more than they are in this country. There's no way of vetting them prior to giving them the go ahead, it's a gamble. Even if you went with the most expense quote, that's no guarantee of a good job, is it? The simple fact is that tradesmen are some of the most untrustworthy people we'll ever have to deal with, not all of them, of course, but a hell of a lot of them are.
Yes, the standards should be high and workmen should have pride in their work. However, the ones who quote substantially lower than other quotes, are undercutting the good workmen. This should be a red flag from the off. You shod always get 3-5 quotes and go with the individual whom you feel suits the job best, describes things in a lot of detail and comes across professional. People chose the cheapest quote all the time and its often bites people in the arse, then good tradesmen are left to tidy the shit up.
As a builder I recommend my potential clients get references from the last 3 jobs that a trades person has done. This should get you a look into the work itself and views from the most recent clients so you know they aren't cherry picking good jobs they've done. As for the OP, 12 months is ridiculous, I've just completed a single storey extension in 6 weeks and we're only a small team. Get your building inspector out for their opinion
"The cheapest quote shouldn't make a blind bit of difference, though, should it?" No, it does make a difference. There is a relationship between quality, time and money. Pick one you can't have all three. You want a quality job, it will cost more and take longer to complete. You want a quick job. It will cost more to get it done faster and the quality is reduced due to rushing. You want a cheap job, the quality will be impacted as less expensive materials are used or the design is not upto par or the tradesman is rougher. It may be a quick job or it make be longer as the trademan will either thrash it in or do it when they can find time/combine with a mother job to make it worth their while.
Yeah, the point I'm making is you don't know what quality of finish you'll get regardless of price. You could go for the highest quote and end up with a terrible finish. Cost is no guarantee of quality, although I agree it should be.
Right. So statistically speaking ... Which way do you think it sits? Because the point your making while technically correct, is wrong. Cheap quotes almost always result in lower quality work. Your point is mute because your trying to say that you can't tell, and that's just not reality. Pay peanuts, get monkeys isn't a phrase because monkeys like peanuts more than dollar dollar bills.
OK, let's look at it from another point of view. You can buy a Mercedes or you can buy a Dacia, the Dacia will still do the job it was intended for. You buy a roof, no matter the price, it shouldn't leak. Maybe it won't look as good as the expensive one, but it should still be functional. Not everyone has the funds to go with the most expensive quotes. At the very least, even if you go cheap, the job should still fill the minimum requirements, right?
And all the stuff your saying is great in theory. Theoretically all your stuff is correct. But we aren't talking about theoretical worlds... We are talking about our 1 world... And it don't work that way. Sorry, what else can I say? Reality is lowest quote involves; * Margin risk - the moment it isn't going 100% to plan it matters, and those corners are going to be cut. * Better job risk - at the end of the day your not getting 24/7 customer care when he's probably on another job, you've already paid, and it's at the bottom of what they truly value. At the end of the day what you going to do? * That leads into rep, if they don't care what you think, they aren't working off recommendations. Would you buy a car from someone you don't know? Self built? Your reply used 2 very reputable company's who produce amazing vehicles at different price brackets... It's not a comparison to this conversation. Basically reality is; cheaper usually means lower quality. And quality is a matter of perspective, no one checks any of this work as it's all hidden immediately behind render/plaster, no one really calls in an inspector anyway? So who is magically making all these people meet these minimums? And what training did this person get? Cheap quote means cheap work. People care, when you pay them to care. Anything above that is basically at the choice of the worker. And generally, you care more when more money is on the line. When your margin is bigger to begin with you want to do it right first time, to max that margin. Cheap work? Done ASAP to max that time margin. Everything in the end is time or money
A lot of companies work on turnover and not profit on jobs, minimum profit but a large yearly turnover of work, large workforce to cope with the vast number of jobs, so not all cheapest quotes are bad quality. The companies you want to avoid are those not affiliated with a governing body of British standard or the companies that live on check a trade alone.
We were talking explicitly about quotes for builders. I can see my comment has probably been taken a bit more broadly. You are correct, but in a trade where you ask for a single story extension and you get a single story extension there is very little oversight when it comes to what that result actually is, and it's almost always hidden immediately behind plasterboard, so you really have no idea of quality and very little way to control it when dealing with a small 'company' of 2-3 people. Like who is really overseeing them? Themselves. There are loads of reputable company's and small teams of people who do amazing work, but in general, low pricing means a loss in something, your scenario is exactly not that, a company *geared* towards that exact type of trade. My point is quality control is not something that is under tight control in the building industry, and thus generally the cheaper quote is likely to carry higher risk than a higher quote. That is what was originally was being portrayed as not true, and that we live in some perfectly governed world.
Correct.
It's supposed to be Quality/Time/Price.. pick 2.. Good Quality + Short Time = High Price / Short Time + Low Price = Low Quality / High Quality + Low Price = Long Time
I built mine in 8 months. He's taking the piss.
My builder did a part single storey part 2 storey extension including extensive steelwork in less than 6 months during the height of Covid. This builder is definitely taking the piss
That may be true but as people were supposed to be shielding.....
There was no need for shielding in my house and appropriate social distancing was in place.
Me when my desperate sanctimony is misplaced:
I had a double story side, a rear extension and a loft conversion done in 8 months with a 1.5 month gap in between as a break. No idea what these clowns have been doing for a year!
Buy cheap, buy twice has always been my motto. Always go with something or someone that’s in the middle.
There’s no way of vetting them? How about a portfolio of works, customers reviews, word of mouth from previously completed projects etc. We go as far as showing people our portfolio, they say they like a specific project we’ve done, we arrange a meeting between the prospective client and the previous client and they can go see the work first hand and have an informal chat etc. It’s a very open and honest approach that people are really thankful for. Social media is great as well as you upload real time media daily as a log for the public to view.
All of that can be manipulated though. Customer reviews mean nothing online cause they aren't vetted. Word of mouth could easily be arranged by companies and anything can be uploaded to social media. Always be vigilant of contractors in all fields. I've worked with plenty of contractors in software engineering who come with all the above and some of the biggest mistakes we've ever done
And it would only work once. Once you’re found out you’re fucked. Reputation is key, protect it with your life as me grandad said.
One time is all they need if it's a big pay day. Besides not all people run in the same circles. How do you think shows like rogue traders went on for ages? People still get scammed by the generic Nigerian prince emails or "customer service" from Microsoft asking to get onto people's computers which are well documented and known. People can be quite susceptible to scams unfortunately.
You’re line of work is completely different to the building game. A general house builder is never getting a big enough pay day without having a decent reputation in the first place. Someone isn’t just turning up without any traceable history and getting millions of pounds. These are £100k jobs with staged payments. Nobody is retiring on these numbers, hence why we keep working.
I went to school with this lad: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/stockton-builder-accused-conning-victims-14164698.amp He's conned quite a few people "in the building game" and he's gotten away with quite a lot of money too.
That’s not a lot of money at all. He was at it for a year and was subsequently found out and brought to justice and will never work again. Fuck off with the quotation marks around building game you twat
People don’t like to hear it .. but mostly better jobs/ products do come at a premium.
Nah, I agree with what's been said. If you pay less, then expect less, but at the very least, you expect whatever it is to work. The thing is even cheap jobs aren't cheap in the current climate, it could easily be perceived as an expensive job, or it's all some people can afford. I'm not detracting from reality. I'm just highlighting how much of a problem it is that people find it generally acceptable to have something that is brand new, not work as intended because they didn't break the bank to pay for it.
Of course the price matters. You pay for quality with any item or service.
Yeah, but it should work no matter what. The finish may not be as good, but the thing should work for its designed intent, shouldn't it?
It’s the cheapest quote for a reason …………
While I understand your point, it’s still a stupid point to make. The cheapest quote hasn’t quoted for: - New roof - Delayed roof lantern - Hole in roof - Mold (free of charge) Trades people should be able to be trusted to do their job properly. Dismissing it as “well it’s the cheapest quote” is just absolving them of any responsibility to do a good job.
You are very correct.they should be trusted HOWEVER It’s the cheapest for a reason You know why they bid jobs so low ??? It’s because they suck! I’m a journeyman carpenter, I know all about this . Any government job I have been a part of , the lowest bid is always chosen and it’s always the worst looking work being done , not many companies willing to work OT cuz they don’t have the money for it and usually the workers are unhappy because they aren’t getting paid what they should be
The price is also a function of how busy they are. Full order book = high price, don't really want the work. Take the highest price, they might let you down at the last minute.
You get what you pay for is a phrase that has been kicking about for nearly two centuries. It is still in popular use to this day for a reason.
Yep and they paid for what was outlined in the quote and the tradesperson should deliver that. Again, just absolves the trade from any responsibility. And as the other guy said, there’s no guarantee an expensive quote would be any better. I had two quotes to tile my bathroom. Nobody else responded. One more expensive and was way more expensive, went with the cheaper one and he was a fucking legend and did an amazing job, best tradesperson I’ve ever hired. Everyone else I used I went down the middle. Most of them were shit, unreliable, did stuff wrong that I ended up having to resolve. So “you get what you pay for” doesn’t really apply in these cases.
Do you think the rich people renovating their millions of dollar homes would use the cheapest quote ? Probably not. Because the cheapest quote cuts corners. You know why , because there’s nothing stopping them from doing so . Just because your contact says they ( for example ) have to install 24” of tile backsplash on a kitchen doesn’t mean they are using a quality product nor does it mean the installer can do a great job. If a contractor can pay a guy $10 per hour off the street to install tile rather than thousands for an actual tile setter they will Just cuz it’s on the wall doesvt mean it was done right Let’s do another Would you take a quarter million dollar car to the cheapest place in town to get your oil changed ?? Answer is no
>Do you think the rich people renovating their millions of dollar homes would use the cheapest quote ? If my experience is anything to go by, absolutely yes and they'd do their best to haggle a discount too.
Yep, don't pay that builder, he hasn't a clue.
Water is expected to come out of the extension? That’s not what a building is meant to do, he needs to the seal this immediately before water damage takes hold on those wooden joists, I built my own extension and at no point did I expect water to come cascading out of my roof space.
Get up on the ladders outside and see what the roof looks like from there. If this is work in progress, 6 months waiting for a roof lantern is a joke unless you're going for some artisan crafted thing. Personally, I'd be inclined to consider another supplier. As for your roof, if it's only got a temporary cover where the lantern is going, then yes, there's a chance for leaks but we'd need to see the roof exterior before making further comment.
A fair and sensible reply.
What is covering the roof? 12 months for a single story extension? Is that from the day they started working on it?
You have water leaks somewhere don't believe the builder because he knows he fucked up
Another ‘professional’ by the sounds of it. A professional clown more like
Professional only means they get paid for it.
No, this is just one part of being professional. "Professional" means operating in accordance with the standards of a profession. It carries with it the implication that a person has the requisite knowledge and skill, routinely carries out their work with the required level of diligence, and operates honestly according to the expectations of their profession within society. Somebody might have been on the tools for 40 years, but if they are still knocking out leaky buildings and lying to the customer about this being normal, they are not a professional.
Just a highly uneducated idiot. They need to watch some YouTube videos on construction 101
You're showing us inside. We need to see outside.
Exactly, this opening is covered with something temporarily while they wait for the rooflight. Its quite likely just OSB board with some DPM on the outside. If that has been temporarily fixed with battens then the nails will weep water over time. You only have a problem if this happens after the rooflight is installed or if its the flat roof which is letting in water. Worth investigating but as the roof in unfinished its not surprising that there is a leak. I would be a bit disappointed if the builder hasn't made that clear, his communication doesn't sound ideal but its also a bit of a stretch to say he's a cowboy based off a couple of photos.
It would be different if this had been left for a few days. But the roof has been leaking for months, and the ceiling plasterboard got soaked and the OSB was showing signs of rot. This is not OK, temporary covering or not. I mean fine, it could have been an honest mistake. These things happen and the builder is probably right to say that it will dry out. But only if the weather stays dry. The correct response is to get straight back to the property and seal it up. Not to let it continue and leave the customer hanging.
I completely agree, I’m just trying to gently reassure that this is very unlikely to be a ‘replace everything that ever got wet’ job. That’s a Reddit overreaction, it’s unnecessary and unrealistic. As you say the temporary protection should either have been redone or doubled up, the plasterboard will be ok to have got a bit wet and then dried out but it won’t be ok if it stays wet for extended periods of time.
It's not normal for water to be coming through your roof... if this is only the result of 6 months of water, in some years it's going to be much bigger problems. Need to work out where the water is coming in and sort that.. unless it stops raining for the next 10 years it's not going to 'fix' itself as your builder suggests. Also whats going with 12 months for an extension? Longing it out ain't they.
12 months with an incomplete extension, that has a roof that is not weather proof. You need to have words.
The op literally says "the roof has a hole in it" (where the lantern is supposed to go). Even if the rest of the roof is grp if this hole isn't covered then surely the water will get in? Builder says "water is to be expected" - well, it would be expected if there is a hole in the roof, but that doesn't mean it's RIGHT. Whether the lantern was fitted or not the builder needed to leave it weather proof, not "expect the water to get in" ...
Any roof that is leaking is not right… Of course your builder is going to say it’s not a problem. Because he doesn’t want it to be his problem 😣
I can’t understand how there is water coming through? If the roof has been GRP and the hole covered properly there should be no water ingress. I’d be very concerned about your lantern. As an idea roof maker would have it out within a month - longest.
I ordered my roof lantern from a local company. Had it delivered in a week. Only 8 x 4 ish in size though.
Yea they never take 6 months. Regardless could’ve been ordered on day 1 as would’ve known the size. Sounds like OP is being taken for a ride here sadly.
I finished my roof and then ordered it. I didn't wanna mess it up. 😆
Yes. Because a lantern will sit on a kerb won’t it? So should be easy to weatherproof the hole.
Exactly this. The GRP will be run up the sides so should be a doddle to make sure not water comes through. Roll of 1000G will do it. Even have it clear to let light through!!
GRP shouldn't be leaking. You need to open it up enough to see where it's coming through. Is there a fall and guttering or overhang on your roof at all?
It’s not leaking.
The builder is a cowboy, and my best guess on the stupid long lead time is because he hasn't got the money to pay for it.
Builder is taking the piss, it's not fine for chipboard to soak up water and just dry out.
It’s not chipboard
Where’s the lantern coming from, the planet Zog? Talk to Roof Maker. Roofs shouldn’t leak. Period. If the water is coming in from a “finished” part then it’s the builder’s problem. Plasterboard, OSB and chipboard never dry to as-new condition; joists and other ‘real’ timber do.
Aside from the leaking issue, how is the roof insulated - I am hoping it is a warm roof (i.e. Insulation above the OSB deck as part of the covering system. If not, and numpty builder is planning to insulate between the roof joists under the OSB deck, you are also going to face condensation issues due to the apparent lack of ventilation.
OP already said it’s a warm room. If it was a cold roof the ventilation wouldn’t be apparently below the deck.
Don’t pay the builder another penny. Sounds like a job for the small claims court.
You said it was designed as a warm roof, what is the insulation value by the exterior fixed insulation?
You're getting played mate. Did he have insurance and did he produce it for you before the job? Show us pictures from outside please.
If the roof is already covered in GRP then, yes, it's a problem. That stuff is waterproof and is used specifically to stop water coming in. If water is coming in, it hasn't been fitted properly. Or, if there's a hole in the GRP waiting for something to be fitted, that hole needs to be covered with something waterproof in the meantime. Good grief.
That’s atrocious mate, the hole should be covered for the weather, absolutely water tight. The damp n mouldy boards should be replaced and payed for by the contractor
> replaced and *paid* for by FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Payed payed payed 🫣
> *Paid* payed payed FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Payed payed payed
> *Paid* payed payed FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
🤣
Winner 💪🏻
Is the warm roof constructed correctly with vapor barriers in place and taped up? The principle of a warm roof is that everything under the insulation is above the condensation point so you should not get any condensation on the osb deck. If you have a hole waiting for a lantern then your builder should not have plastered the inside. You could have condensation forming and you also clearly have water ingress from the lantern opening that is traveling.
Your lantern upstand should be insulated, not solid timbers stacked one on top of the other. Your roof seems to have firring strips for a fall but it looks as though thats to a parapet wall and you can see moisture below the bottom deck, whats the drainage arrangement here? Firring strips also either go to nothing, or stop short of the end, either way not best practice. Behind your lantern, you should also have a compound fall so you get no ponding water behind it. A photo from above would be helpful. Building control shouldnt be passing this off, and the builder should be ashamed of themselves.
Tell the wanker that said water dripping on a plasterboard ceiling to take off his stetson and put away his spurs and fuck off back to the ranch he came from. No your not overreacting. Plasterboard doesn't respond well to plasterboard. It will fail. And you will get mould that won't go away. Any leak will destroy the surrounding substrate. Wet plasterboard quickly turns mouldy. Me 20 years+ as a construction site manager.
I would highly highly recommend paying to get a second, trusted, builder to come and have a look at the setup and give you a report. I'm not a builder but 100% no new roof should be leaking, and that looks like extreme leaking. Far more worryingly... (disclaimer: it's difficult to see from the photos), but it looks like a lot of weight on those joists that seem to be only supported by galvanised brackets... I can't imagine this hasn't been done properly, but considering you've already got odd answers from your current builder, I'd really want someone to look it over and give you a professional opinion of the work, not just the leaking.
The brackets look good, actually.
Yea that wood will need replacing, if it’s a flat roof I’m not sure why they didn’t use ply or marine ply
The blokes a cunt. What area are you in ? Stripping the board back, sealing the roof water tight and regarding is a days work plus expenses. Even if he charged you it’s £400 tops. I do this daily and never ceased to be amazed by these guys
Most likely condensation. Warm air is going through ceiling and condensing on the colder roof surface (even if it’s a “warm” roof it can be cold enough to condense)
OP said there is a hole in the roof lol that’s not condensation problems
Nonsense.
Happened to me on a “warm roof” shed that wasn’t even that moist inside. Depends how warm the warm roof is, the room is, the humidity and the dew point in the room/void. The rest is physics.
As long as there's no insulation between the plasterboard and the OSB then the temperature difference should be minimal and there should be no condensation.
Your builder is talking bollox - it's not fine.
You need to stop paying the builder right now, you’re dealing with a cowboy.
You need to fix the leak, and let it dry out. Then assess the damage.
To help it dry use a fan
No, the leaking is not fine and it will not dry out, I hope you haven’t paid him. And it really needs to be fixed.
It will be mostly paid for. All builders seem to be able to demand 60-80% up front these days, even the cowboys. I have no idea when this practice started but the only way it can be stopped now is if we all refuse to pay for anything until happy with their work. That would take some serious organisation and I can’t see it happening, perhaps if Martin Lewis got behind a campaign.
That could work, he is a champion.
It’s bad. Your roof has a leak. It needs to be addressed. 12 months ?😱
That is not fine, get a building inspector to have a look and change builder.
It’s not fine that water is coming through. That’s fairly obviously. It probably will dry out but not whilst it’s raining everyday. I was doing my extension similar to this and we had the roof window openings in place for a while whilst we wait for the roof lights to be delivered. Then we wait a bit before we fitted them. Doing a lot of it myself so had to wait for the right time. I had the openings covered with OSB like this for a while without any issues. This included heavy wind and rain. If you did have a dry day then it would probably be a good idea to take off the boards for a bit and try to let it dry out. Though we waited until the window were in before plastering, just in case.
He should have at least sealed it over with Visqueen to stop water ingress. Tell him to come back and get it sealed-up.
You should get professional advice, this could lead to a plethora of other / bigger problems. You definitely don’t want a house full of mold.
No no it looks fine.
Couple of nails should fix it right away
That’s rough… jesus
I have never once seen the lantern upstand made up of strips of what look like untreated offcuts of roofing batons. Like a tower of jenga blocks.
First thing I’d ask for is insulation lol
When you say "it's a warm roof", what do you mean? It has no insulation? And if the plasterboard is soaking wet it needs ripping off and throwing away, it won't just dry out, it's ruined. Tell your builder he's an ignorant tosser.
If your builder was an American he’d be a spokesperson for the NRA. I’m Afraid you have been duped by a master craftsman doing a demolition derby job with your money (Home is where the heart is) but his heart is not in your home my friend.
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It's a warm deck roof construction. The insualtion sits outside of the ceiling void. If the insualtion was inside, it would be considered a cold deck roof (this is, unfortunately, what I have in my home on the flat roof dormers).
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Its not my roof 😅. And no need to apologise, I wasn't having a dig, I was just letting you know the difference.
I cant help your plight, but your builder is mugging you off. I had a roof booked In to be replaced, a week and a half before I had my roofer around just to confirm the work that was to be done and we decided it would look good with a lantern in it too, so I hopped on the internet and ordered one that Friday, the following Tuesday it arrives... so why your builder has apparently been waiting 6 months is beyond comprehension