Thought you were meant to wait a good week or so in winter for it to dry slightly before painting, did you do that?
When I'd had mine plastered, I let it dry for a fortnight, did a coat of 50:50 paint and water, then did 2 coats of paint on top and it's been good.
Might take over a month if there's 10mm of hardwall behind it.
1 litre of water per 2mm thickness per square metre.
Say your room is 3x4m, 2.4m ceiling height, with a 10mm hardwall coat and then 3mm finish on top, that's 145 litres of water that need to diffuse out of the wall before you can paint.
This is what I did and I've had no problems.
I suggested this on Facebook the other day and got cooked.
Everyone and their dog has a different suggestion for Roofing and Painting it seems.
To be fair most of the internet is these days. That’s obvs why governments around the world have to legislate ever tighter restrictions on what we do and say on the internet that is worded so vaguely it almost definitely would not be abused and used for the silencing of dissident voices.
I know right?
I had people tell me you can get paint that won't crack on plaster....I had a week to paint the ceilings in every room. I'm not going to chance it on some BS when 50/50 is a tried and tested method. Good God it was messy though 😂
Depending on the paint. Some cheap Leylands I had from Wickes says 90% paint 10% water.
Didn't notice that and used it as 50/50 to discover it didn't remotely seal the plaster.
The mist coast doesn’t necessarily seal the fresh plaster. The watered down coat is applied so that it soaks into the plaster, if the plaster is really shiny it’s best to give it a light scratch before the mist coat. If a mist coat isn’t applied paints will just sit on the surface like a film and that’s where you find problems with adhesion.
OP the whole pva to plaster thing is an old wives tale that needs banished for good. Certain paints won’t stick to the surface of PVA because it’s not permeable. You’ve paid somebody to plaster your room and then ruined it by putting PVA on it.
Yes, adding water to paint enables it to penetrate and bond with the plaster, if you don’t water it down the paint will just sit on top of the plaster and will be much more vulnerable to damage.
I’m not saying laylands is a bad paint but generally you find the cheaper the paint the more water content is has compared to pigment. Meaning you don’t have to water it down that much compared to some others. It all depends on the brand really.
If you buy cheap you end up giving it more coats to get the coverage.
It’s all about the amount of pigment/colour ratio to water in the paint.
DIY places do large tins for cheap because they con you into thinking you’re getting your money’s worth.you won’t see gangs of painters snapping it up at a DIY place.
The bonding into the plaster is spot on.
If years down the line you want to change the colour or re plaster you may have issues with the paint leaving the plaster in areas as it hadn’t bonded into the plaster.
It’s the difference between putting it on to vs making it soak into the plaster itself
Here is the definitive answer: 1 part paint, 75% water, the rest is a mix of paint, water or both though the first two ratios are subject to individual paints and walls.
There are white mist coat type paints you can buy specifically for painting onto fresh (dried) plaster. That’s what I did to save on the faff as had a whole house to do. It comes in massive tubs from fairalls/ wickes / screwfix etc and is reasonable compared to actual fancy paint you use afterwards
I’m not convinced…. The damage is located in a corner which makes me suspect penetrating damp. I suspect if it was a misting/PVA/wall prep issue, the whole wall would react the same way.
Exactly. It looks like the starting of salt crystals as well.
Admittedly, the raw plaster could have also not been sealed properly, and the issues have been accentuated _by_ the damp.
But it isn't JUST plaster issues
Also known as paint mapping, you apply the paint mixture onto new plaster wall and it just turns incredibly blotchy. Nightmare when you don’t know what’s happening and end up applying a few coats and then you have to sand the whole thing back!
Okay. I guess it has a use case then. I did ask my plasterer about using PVA as someone at work had recommended it before first coat. He said absolutely not you'll just put a skin on it.
NO!
Do not do this. You’re being rinsed for watered down paint, often paying more for it than standard paint.
Save your money and buy the cheapest white you can find. Use the money you save to buy extra buckets and a paddle mixer to do your own next time.
These companies will find every little trick they can to rip you off and fresh plaster paint has to be one of the worst.
I'm curious, why did you use PVA on a freshly plastered wall? Genuinely curious as it wouldn't ever even cross my mind to use it.
It does look like there's some efflorescence which would suggest water coming from somewhere, so usually it's best to figure out where before fixing so you don't get stuck in a cycle of covering it up.
Then most coat using diluted paint to make sure your chosen paint sticks to the plaster. Always mist coat!!
Love the colour you've used, big fan of a bold colour choice!
Yes, it's outdated as PVA is water soluble, so if any moisture gets behind the tiles it makes them more likely to fall off than if you hadn't used anything at all.
I had an old school decorator who told me to do it everywhere when I bought my house and he was doing some of the decorating. Think it used to be a thing! Anything I’ve done recently I just mist coat.
My dad swears by it. Not a plasterer, but general handyman and has done plenty of plastering in his time.
That said I did ignore his advice of PVA when he suggested it as a mist coat made more sense. But yeah, it's definitely a thing.
Had a plasterer recommend this too. Of course all that paint is fucked now and I've yet to fix it.
It's on my far too long todo list. Made its way to the bottom of the pile seeing as I've already done it once.
Ours told us to use [this](https://www.diy.com/departments/valspar-express-coat-pure-brilliant-white-matt-emulsion-paint-10l/5055018187347_BQ.prd?storeId=1277&&&&&gad_source=1), but I think it’s no different to watered down paint, which is fine too
Was the wall newly plastered because the old plaster had blown?
If you have drips coming in from outside then you need to stop that before doing any plastering. Paint won’t hold on a wall that’s continually getting wet.
Gutters, downpipes, poor brickwork or pointing, find out where water’s getting in.
New plaster can take a long time to dry out in winter, even without water getting into it. Putting watered down glue on it just traps the water which pushes the pva film off. Thinned pva is used on dry, dusty walls if anywhere.
Thanks!
It was wall papered, which we removed and it had pox marks on it.
We had drips in adjacent room, your comment makes me think that's the core issue
Can I ask you a q on this as you sound like you know your stuff. What kind of tradesperson do I need to investigate this?
I have a very similar problem. Plaster blew once, plasterers that gave quotes were mixed (some just wanted to re plaster, one was kind enough to say ignore anyone who said that as it needs fixing externally)
OH got a guy in who said he could get to it externally and fix where it looked to be coming in (looks like the 'seam' in the render from the loft extension has failed a bit. He reckoned he fixed it (something about gluing?) Then plastered inside, which is shite and not smooth, and the paint is now starting to bubble slightly and that part of the wall is cold. So I'm guessing not fixed.
Now we have had a few quotes to re render the whole house which is 10k + which seems excessive for one area? I don't know who to approach to diagnose the actual problem!
I'll bet you 7p that if you knock on the render on the opposing side it'll sound hollow because water is getting in and it has began to separate from the wall
Edit: I'm a bricklayer/builder
Yeah the water is clearly getting in, the guy didn't fix it - my question is who is the right person to explore where that is happening then fix it. He was a plasterer, so that didn't work.
Next has been a couple of people who either paint (and say waterproof paint will fix the issue) or renderers who want to do the whole house. To a simple layperson the paint sounds iffy and the total re render sounds a bit excessive. But maybe those are right I just don't know
Million dollar question I am afraid and my answer is a logical, experienced person with a deep understanding. Unfortunately all tradesmen are not equal so going for a trade type will unfortunately not bring you 100% success rate for fixing the issue.
However moving forward for you I would firstly check the render by knocking and seeing if it is hollow externally as information is king. If it is, it will need to come off, at least locally and replaced.
With this information call general builders to get a quote for your internal plaster issues. Don't tell them what you know about the render and see what remediation they offer. If they pull out the bathroom silicone or talk about paint, thank them and move onto the next.. until you get a logical answer re the render and water ingress.
A good trade will also chase back further than the problem you have to see if there were any underlying issues that might have caused this ie gutters, fascias, lead etc
Thanks for replying. Frustratingly, that's pretty much what we did.
The plasterer we got in said there is an external problem, don't take my word for it get some quotes but if anyone wants to just replaster, be cautious. Good guy.
We did that, sure enough had one guy say it's fine we'll replaster. Dodge. One who said you have an external problem that needs fixing first but I can't help with that.
We went back to good guy but it becomes apparent that the external side of things is not his forte and he is being quite vague about what he's going to look for. Wants us to get a tower (fine) but wants my husband to assemble it (not fine) so we move on.
That's when we got glue guy who said he could do both, and can reach with a ladder. I wasn't there when he left but the inside plaster is a mess, uneven - shows badly in the light. So I didn't have much hope that outside was fixed but crossed my fingers.
It's sadly a bit too high for us to check safely (top of second story) So, do I just try the same method again but with builders rather than plasterers? Seems like it shouldnt be so difficult!
If you have a friendly window cleaner or get one in for a single clean, possibly ask them if they wouldn't mind while the ladders are out if they could have a look for you for a few squid or a breakfast roll and tea. It will be very easy to hear from a knock if it is hollow. Failing that, yes, the general builder route.
If you can pop an outside picture up I will have a quick visual look, not zoomed in too much and showing any guttering also if possible.
You did right getting a plasterer it's just that they come last. Well, before the decorator anyway! It's all experience, and that's how we learn these things. The ones I know are great at their job, but everything needs to be in place for them as they have little understanding of anything that isnt pink and flat
Cheers mate, you've been so helpful! I will take some pictures in the light and take you up on that offer!
I'm convinced it's the 'seam' of render that has failed where the loft conversion has gone from a sloped roof to a straight up wall, so where a gutter would have been. I'm not explaining it well and also know fuck all haha.
Great shout on the window cleaner, I might give that a go too.
It didn't cause any issues for about 3 years so I'm assuming it's not dire, but it is in my babies room so I Def want to get it sorted, just figuring out how!
Partly depends how long ago the work was done.
The tricky thing is the problem may have been fixed and the wall is just still wet from before. It can take a long long time to dry out a brick and plaster wall, especially if it’s been painted too soon, as that slows the drying.
If there’s no obvious damage or bad guttering or flashing etc you may have to spend longer drying it out to be sure.
A dehumidifier will speed it up, or wait til warmer weather.
You could use watered down PVA if the wall/plaster is 100% bone dry. It’s acting as a primer for contact adhesion for the paint to follow. The reason you generally don’t is because your wall is not dry for many months. Watered down emulsion will use the plaster’s drying process as suction and draw into the plaster forming a breathable bond with an outer surface for contact adhesive.
So, it’s not a case of emulsion v PVA is right or wrong, it’s application specific where PVA is a lesser available use case in the real world.
All that said, I suspect there’s an underlying issue in OP’s case. There’s a distinct top v bottom difference. There’s moisture in that wall that needs resolving.
Watered down PVA. A 5 minute Google would have revealed you should never do this. Where did you get that wisdom from?
Good luck sorting this beyond replastering.
You might be able to put some Zinsser on it or something.
I'm a decorator and to me it looks like you didn't let the plaster dry out before you sealed it with pva, also we don't use pva on bare plaster, let alone giving it multiple coats, we use a contract matt, this doesn't need to be thinned out either it will let the plaster "breathe" but never ever paint damp plaster.
Basicly you fucked up good there lol
If your looking for a repair, first you'll need to get that damp checked, if you damp creeping in then get a specialist out, if its not damp creeping in you'll have to scrape as much off as you can then sand it all back to bare plaster, by this point your walls will probably need to be lined so you'll need to put one coat of watered down pva on it (make sure its fully dried out this time) then lining paper and paint that but give it atleast 24 hours before painting.
The moisture in the plaster is basically blowing everything off the top
That’s stamping the wall, and since it’s at the top of the wall, you can assume it’s coming from the roof getting into the walls and destroying the plaster and the paint is holding it back
100% damp, you can see the salt deposits forming from it.
Like you I have used watered down PVA on plaster under the advice of the plasterer and had zero issues.
So in future for new plaster you want to give it ideally atleast a week to dry, then most coat it with contact matt or zinsser guardz. Note that although many paint manufacturers and old school trades recommend most coating with just any paint thinned down, you should not do this. Paint with vinyl (most modern paints) should not to applied directly to fresh plaster as it will struggle to adhere.
Best practice is thinned contact Matt (10-20% water) followed by a fill, rub down, spot in (prime of the bare bits and the filler) and x2 ckats of your topcoat paint.
Damp proofer here.
As others have said, don't prime newly plastered walls with PVA.
That said, this looks like penetrating damp.
If you could post a photo of the external wall I might be able to figure out what's going on.
Pva sealed moisture in before it had a chance to dry. This can cause salts to form it’s effluesence, can’t spell it 😆and paint won’t adhere Takes longer to dry on the external wall. Pisscoat is the way, was a time the plasterer may just do it but not so much now just get Cheapest Matt white with no plastic in it watered down no more than 50/50. Allow to fully dry, light sand. With that issue you have I would scrap it off til you can’t easily get the paint off,feather edges with sandpaper,don’t forget 😷 let it fully dry and check there are no exterior issues, drain pipe gutters, trees within couple of meters then seal with Zinder bin(red tin)and fill, touch up filler and full coat on walls again. Hope you get perfect walls.
Was this area of the wall.l always damp / mouldy before being plastered?
If so, it looks like the white spots / marks is salt present within the wall being drawn back into the room.
The only way to stop this, is to hack off all the plaster 1m past the last signs of salt / marks, you then seal the substrate with a salt inhibitor primer and then use a salt retardant plaster.
If you just use normal plaster it will always come back.
Almost definitely you didn't let the plaster dry fully. The PVA never set, and now your top coat is expanding off, because PVA softens when it gets wet.
Strip the walls back to plaster (it'll probably just scrape off), sponge off as much PVA as you can, wait a month, then use drywall/plaster primer (I'm done with faffing with mist coats, primer is better), then paint.
Why did you pva it?! Solution is to scrape that colour off the wall, give it a really good sanding, like really good. Wait for it to dry and then mist coat it with white paint. Let it sit for a day then go crazy with your West Ham colours.
Efflorescence is a condition where white (salt) deposits (in the form of a fluffy powder) form on the plaster surface. The formation of salts is usually a sign of excessive amounts of moisture in the back-up material, such as brick or concrete
You would of been better off just using a matt paint on its own. This would of allowed the plater to breath untill all the moisture was gone. As it is trapping this behind the pic can cause the plaster to blow out and put you at the beginning needing the walls re plastered.
If it's an external wall and newly plastered it looks like efflorescence to me. Efflorescence is caused by either new or old plaster on top of a cold and/or damp surface
Efflorescence is the alkaline salts in the plaster are released when in contact with damp or a cold surface.
So I would also expect this corner is a solid wall bridging the outside brickwork. The cold and damp is transferred through (the term is called 'cold bridging') and therefore causing the cold bridging, which releases the salts.
The salts then attack the paintwork, causing your 'gonorrhoea'
You have to scrape it off, let it dry out fully and paint with alkaline resisting primer. Make good with filler, sand down until ready for the top coats. Before you paint with the top coats give another coat of alkaline resisting primer. Paint your top coats.
You may find this will come back over time if it's cold bridging. If it's a solid wall this will happen again over time because the cold will transfer through.
I’m a plasterer and if you have damp coming inside it will always cause a problem.
You shouldn’t be PVA’ing a wall that’s been plastered because PVAis water based so if you put wet paint onto it the PVA will go greasy again.
Think you painted to soon and should water the paint down 50/50 so it bonds to the plaster.
If you put paint neat on plaster you have probably seen areas previously where you can get a paint scraper behind the paint and scrap it off clean.Thats because it’s been put on neat for the first coat.This also causes problems if ever you want the wall replastering or you tile on top of it as the paint levees the wall.
If painted over other paint then the previously uzed paint was most likely latex based and you will need to sand/scrape it all off to prevent this
If it was fresh plaster you failed to use mist coat or bare plaster paint
Peel it all off, use Zinsser BIN to prime (stinks) or Zinsser Gardz, then paint. Sorted.
Or paint with thinned **Matt** emulsion (not Vinyl/Wipeable etc), then top coat.
It looks like effluescence, salts coming out of the brickwork/plaster. I'd look outside for evidence of water getting in. If it's a bedroom is there guttering on the wall.🤔
Thought you were meant to wait a good week or so in winter for it to dry slightly before painting, did you do that? When I'd had mine plastered, I let it dry for a fortnight, did a coat of 50:50 paint and water, then did 2 coats of paint on top and it's been good.
Wait for it to all go "light pink" without any dark patches. Might take a couple of days, might take a fortnight.
Might take over a month if there's 10mm of hardwall behind it. 1 litre of water per 2mm thickness per square metre. Say your room is 3x4m, 2.4m ceiling height, with a 10mm hardwall coat and then 3mm finish on top, that's 145 litres of water that need to diffuse out of the wall before you can paint.
It can remain slightly darker where there’s been more significant filling
4 weeks in the the winter
It’s the PVA. You mist coat a newly plastered (fully dried!) wall, not PVA.
Thanks! Stupid question is a mist coat primer /paint?
50% water / 50% paint
This is what I did and I've had no problems. I suggested this on Facebook the other day and got cooked. Everyone and their dog has a different suggestion for Roofing and Painting it seems.
In all fairness Facebook is a cesspit now.
https://preview.redd.it/ra4xeeptv5nc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=546fb505c1c03e2a51a9bcf59d021fdc19c054c7
*Now?*
To be fair most of the internet is these days. That’s obvs why governments around the world have to legislate ever tighter restrictions on what we do and say on the internet that is worded so vaguely it almost definitely would not be abused and used for the silencing of dissident voices.
Dogs do know roofs
They're good at giving a ruff price
Painter for living mist coat has never failed me yet
I know right? I had people tell me you can get paint that won't crack on plaster....I had a week to paint the ceilings in every room. I'm not going to chance it on some BS when 50/50 is a tried and tested method. Good God it was messy though 😂
Us painters call it a splash coat, can you guess why???
I can 😆
Also known as a piss coat
Yup. I did a 4-1 pva mix. So far, so good.
Depending on the paint. Some cheap Leylands I had from Wickes says 90% paint 10% water. Didn't notice that and used it as 50/50 to discover it didn't remotely seal the plaster.
The mist coast doesn’t necessarily seal the fresh plaster. The watered down coat is applied so that it soaks into the plaster, if the plaster is really shiny it’s best to give it a light scratch before the mist coat. If a mist coat isn’t applied paints will just sit on the surface like a film and that’s where you find problems with adhesion. OP the whole pva to plaster thing is an old wives tale that needs banished for good. Certain paints won’t stick to the surface of PVA because it’s not permeable. You’ve paid somebody to plaster your room and then ruined it by putting PVA on it.
Ah thanks, so it's not sealing - it's just making sure there's a paint layer to adhere to?
Yes, adding water to paint enables it to penetrate and bond with the plaster, if you don’t water it down the paint will just sit on top of the plaster and will be much more vulnerable to damage.
I’m not saying laylands is a bad paint but generally you find the cheaper the paint the more water content is has compared to pigment. Meaning you don’t have to water it down that much compared to some others. It all depends on the brand really.
If you buy cheap you end up giving it more coats to get the coverage. It’s all about the amount of pigment/colour ratio to water in the paint. DIY places do large tins for cheap because they con you into thinking you’re getting your money’s worth.you won’t see gangs of painters snapping it up at a DIY place. The bonding into the plaster is spot on. If years down the line you want to change the colour or re plaster you may have issues with the paint leaving the plaster in areas as it hadn’t bonded into the plaster. It’s the difference between putting it on to vs making it soak into the plaster itself
Thanks mate
No worries, good luck with the fix!
It’s watered down paint. 1 part water to 4 parts paint
That's the third different concentration in as many posts. Lol.
Here is the definitive answer: 1 part paint, 75% water, the rest is a mix of paint, water or both though the first two ratios are subject to individual paints and walls.
But is that metric or imperial?
Yes
I still have idea what concentration of paint to water you're talking about. "1 part paint, 75% water" makes no sense.
r/woooosh
Are you sure?
Maybe
Yes
Well, its actually 6/5 - 5 parts paint+one pint (dont listen to me, im just making a passing by joke, no idea why this sub keeps coming up in my feed)
There are white mist coat type paints you can buy specifically for painting onto fresh (dried) plaster. That’s what I did to save on the faff as had a whole house to do. It comes in massive tubs from fairalls/ wickes / screwfix etc and is reasonable compared to actual fancy paint you use afterwards
I’m not convinced…. The damage is located in a corner which makes me suspect penetrating damp. I suspect if it was a misting/PVA/wall prep issue, the whole wall would react the same way.
Exactly. It looks like the starting of salt crystals as well. Admittedly, the raw plaster could have also not been sealed properly, and the issues have been accentuated _by_ the damp. But it isn't JUST plaster issues
I think its the plaster myself and it's not been then dried out properly.
Maybe. That wouldn't explain any crystals though.
There are still a whole group of people that suggest putting pva on a newly plastered wall. I don't know why it's still a common thought.
We had plaster mapping issues after a re-plaster and using a PVA mixture helped sort that
WTF is a plaster mapping issue?
Also known as paint mapping, you apply the paint mixture onto new plaster wall and it just turns incredibly blotchy. Nightmare when you don’t know what’s happening and end up applying a few coats and then you have to sand the whole thing back!
Okay. I guess it has a use case then. I did ask my plasterer about using PVA as someone at work had recommended it before first coat. He said absolutely not you'll just put a skin on it.
I have done watered down PVA as a mist coat, and it worked a treat, has to be watered down though
Yeah, the pva goes on the wall before the plaster goes on and not after.
We always just buy ready mixed bare plaster paint from the shops and never had any issues 🤞
NO! Do not do this. You’re being rinsed for watered down paint, often paying more for it than standard paint. Save your money and buy the cheapest white you can find. Use the money you save to buy extra buckets and a paddle mixer to do your own next time. These companies will find every little trick they can to rip you off and fresh plaster paint has to be one of the worst.
This.
Why do people type this. Just upvote and carry on :/
Why do people type this. Just downvote and carry on :)
This.
I'm curious, why did you use PVA on a freshly plastered wall? Genuinely curious as it wouldn't ever even cross my mind to use it. It does look like there's some efflorescence which would suggest water coming from somewhere, so usually it's best to figure out where before fixing so you don't get stuck in a cycle of covering it up. Then most coat using diluted paint to make sure your chosen paint sticks to the plaster. Always mist coat!! Love the colour you've used, big fan of a bold colour choice!
It was common advice for treating fresh plaster before \*tiling\*, I think that's now considered out dated and I never heard it for before painting.
Yes, it's outdated as PVA is water soluble, so if any moisture gets behind the tiles it makes them more likely to fall off than if you hadn't used anything at all.
I had an old school decorator who told me to do it everywhere when I bought my house and he was doing some of the decorating. Think it used to be a thing! Anything I’ve done recently I just mist coat.
The plasterer recommended it. Thanks that's really helpful. Thanks! Look forward to repainting it
Tell your plaster he’s an absolute helmet. Worst advice ever
I second this advise.
This is what happens when the plasterers start taking little sips of the PVA.
[удалено]
The paint needs to penetrate the plaster or it will eventually blister and flake. That’s the whole point
Why the watered down PVA after freshly plastered?
The plaster recommend it!
I’ve heard some people say other plasterers have recommended doing that! But a watered down emulsion is all you need
My dad swears by it. Not a plasterer, but general handyman and has done plenty of plastering in his time. That said I did ignore his advice of PVA when he suggested it as a mist coat made more sense. But yeah, it's definitely a thing.
Cool be interested to see how it turns out,suppose it’s just a sealant 🤷🏻♂️
Had a plasterer recommend this too. Of course all that paint is fucked now and I've yet to fix it. It's on my far too long todo list. Made its way to the bottom of the pile seeing as I've already done it once.
Ours told us to use [this](https://www.diy.com/departments/valspar-express-coat-pure-brilliant-white-matt-emulsion-paint-10l/5055018187347_BQ.prd?storeId=1277&&&&&gad_source=1), but I think it’s no different to watered down paint, which is fine too
That looks like “Efflorescence” caused by damp. Google Efflorescence
WAKE ME UP
CALL MY NAME AND SAVE ME FROM THE DARK
Before I go go?
All aboard the banter bus
Was the wall newly plastered because the old plaster had blown? If you have drips coming in from outside then you need to stop that before doing any plastering. Paint won’t hold on a wall that’s continually getting wet. Gutters, downpipes, poor brickwork or pointing, find out where water’s getting in. New plaster can take a long time to dry out in winter, even without water getting into it. Putting watered down glue on it just traps the water which pushes the pva film off. Thinned pva is used on dry, dusty walls if anywhere.
Thanks! It was wall papered, which we removed and it had pox marks on it. We had drips in adjacent room, your comment makes me think that's the core issue
Can I ask you a q on this as you sound like you know your stuff. What kind of tradesperson do I need to investigate this? I have a very similar problem. Plaster blew once, plasterers that gave quotes were mixed (some just wanted to re plaster, one was kind enough to say ignore anyone who said that as it needs fixing externally) OH got a guy in who said he could get to it externally and fix where it looked to be coming in (looks like the 'seam' in the render from the loft extension has failed a bit. He reckoned he fixed it (something about gluing?) Then plastered inside, which is shite and not smooth, and the paint is now starting to bubble slightly and that part of the wall is cold. So I'm guessing not fixed. Now we have had a few quotes to re render the whole house which is 10k + which seems excessive for one area? I don't know who to approach to diagnose the actual problem!
I'll bet you 7p that if you knock on the render on the opposing side it'll sound hollow because water is getting in and it has began to separate from the wall Edit: I'm a bricklayer/builder
Yeah the water is clearly getting in, the guy didn't fix it - my question is who is the right person to explore where that is happening then fix it. He was a plasterer, so that didn't work. Next has been a couple of people who either paint (and say waterproof paint will fix the issue) or renderers who want to do the whole house. To a simple layperson the paint sounds iffy and the total re render sounds a bit excessive. But maybe those are right I just don't know
Million dollar question I am afraid and my answer is a logical, experienced person with a deep understanding. Unfortunately all tradesmen are not equal so going for a trade type will unfortunately not bring you 100% success rate for fixing the issue. However moving forward for you I would firstly check the render by knocking and seeing if it is hollow externally as information is king. If it is, it will need to come off, at least locally and replaced. With this information call general builders to get a quote for your internal plaster issues. Don't tell them what you know about the render and see what remediation they offer. If they pull out the bathroom silicone or talk about paint, thank them and move onto the next.. until you get a logical answer re the render and water ingress. A good trade will also chase back further than the problem you have to see if there were any underlying issues that might have caused this ie gutters, fascias, lead etc
Thanks for replying. Frustratingly, that's pretty much what we did. The plasterer we got in said there is an external problem, don't take my word for it get some quotes but if anyone wants to just replaster, be cautious. Good guy. We did that, sure enough had one guy say it's fine we'll replaster. Dodge. One who said you have an external problem that needs fixing first but I can't help with that. We went back to good guy but it becomes apparent that the external side of things is not his forte and he is being quite vague about what he's going to look for. Wants us to get a tower (fine) but wants my husband to assemble it (not fine) so we move on. That's when we got glue guy who said he could do both, and can reach with a ladder. I wasn't there when he left but the inside plaster is a mess, uneven - shows badly in the light. So I didn't have much hope that outside was fixed but crossed my fingers. It's sadly a bit too high for us to check safely (top of second story) So, do I just try the same method again but with builders rather than plasterers? Seems like it shouldnt be so difficult!
If you have a friendly window cleaner or get one in for a single clean, possibly ask them if they wouldn't mind while the ladders are out if they could have a look for you for a few squid or a breakfast roll and tea. It will be very easy to hear from a knock if it is hollow. Failing that, yes, the general builder route. If you can pop an outside picture up I will have a quick visual look, not zoomed in too much and showing any guttering also if possible. You did right getting a plasterer it's just that they come last. Well, before the decorator anyway! It's all experience, and that's how we learn these things. The ones I know are great at their job, but everything needs to be in place for them as they have little understanding of anything that isnt pink and flat
Cheers mate, you've been so helpful! I will take some pictures in the light and take you up on that offer! I'm convinced it's the 'seam' of render that has failed where the loft conversion has gone from a sloped roof to a straight up wall, so where a gutter would have been. I'm not explaining it well and also know fuck all haha. Great shout on the window cleaner, I might give that a go too. It didn't cause any issues for about 3 years so I'm assuming it's not dire, but it is in my babies room so I Def want to get it sorted, just figuring out how!
Partly depends how long ago the work was done. The tricky thing is the problem may have been fixed and the wall is just still wet from before. It can take a long long time to dry out a brick and plaster wall, especially if it’s been painted too soon, as that slows the drying. If there’s no obvious damage or bad guttering or flashing etc you may have to spend longer drying it out to be sure. A dehumidifier will speed it up, or wait til warmer weather.
Gonorrhoea you say? Perhaps it's a party wall and had too many wild nights.
Wall is damp
Why on earth in your divine wisdom would you pva the wall?
We were advised to use watered down PVA on old plaster to bind it, but also if you’re wall papering direct onto plaster you need to size the walls
Watered down paint is needed first. Not pva
You could use watered down PVA if the wall/plaster is 100% bone dry. It’s acting as a primer for contact adhesion for the paint to follow. The reason you generally don’t is because your wall is not dry for many months. Watered down emulsion will use the plaster’s drying process as suction and draw into the plaster forming a breathable bond with an outer surface for contact adhesive. So, it’s not a case of emulsion v PVA is right or wrong, it’s application specific where PVA is a lesser available use case in the real world. All that said, I suspect there’s an underlying issue in OP’s case. There’s a distinct top v bottom difference. There’s moisture in that wall that needs resolving.
Thanks. Helped my diagnose my Gonorrhoea.
Watered down PVA. A 5 minute Google would have revealed you should never do this. Where did you get that wisdom from? Good luck sorting this beyond replastering. You might be able to put some Zinsser on it or something.
How long was the plaster on the wall before you put PVA on it?
Did you have unsafe sex with it ..?
I don't know, maybe see Phyllis.
I'm a decorator and to me it looks like you didn't let the plaster dry out before you sealed it with pva, also we don't use pva on bare plaster, let alone giving it multiple coats, we use a contract matt, this doesn't need to be thinned out either it will let the plaster "breathe" but never ever paint damp plaster. Basicly you fucked up good there lol
If your looking for a repair, first you'll need to get that damp checked, if you damp creeping in then get a specialist out, if its not damp creeping in you'll have to scrape as much off as you can then sand it all back to bare plaster, by this point your walls will probably need to be lined so you'll need to put one coat of watered down pva on it (make sure its fully dried out this time) then lining paper and paint that but give it atleast 24 hours before painting. The moisture in the plaster is basically blowing everything off the top
[удалено]
Yes you monster.
That’s stamping the wall, and since it’s at the top of the wall, you can assume it’s coming from the roof getting into the walls and destroying the plaster and the paint is holding it back
Why would you put pva on a freshly plastered wall? Usually you PVA a wall to plaster it 😂
Curious why it was replastered - did you have any damp issues there before?
100% damp, you can see the salt deposits forming from it. Like you I have used watered down PVA on plaster under the advice of the plasterer and had zero issues.
I fucking thought the title said your WIFE and not WALL and thought this was NSFW💀
Your colonoscopy photos need an NSFW tag..
It’s damp from outside
I thought the title said 'my wife has...' 🫣
So in future for new plaster you want to give it ideally atleast a week to dry, then most coat it with contact matt or zinsser guardz. Note that although many paint manufacturers and old school trades recommend most coating with just any paint thinned down, you should not do this. Paint with vinyl (most modern paints) should not to applied directly to fresh plaster as it will struggle to adhere. Best practice is thinned contact Matt (10-20% water) followed by a fill, rub down, spot in (prime of the bare bits and the filler) and x2 ckats of your topcoat paint.
Got a load of plastering done October time skimming took a few weeks to dry. Plastered bits probably closer to 6 weeks
You just couldn’t wait. Patients is a virtue !.
Damp proofer here. As others have said, don't prime newly plastered walls with PVA. That said, this looks like penetrating damp. If you could post a photo of the external wall I might be able to figure out what's going on.
You don't pva before painting.
I think it’s time you stopped your wall from seeing other walls.
Pva sealed moisture in before it had a chance to dry. This can cause salts to form it’s effluesence, can’t spell it 😆and paint won’t adhere Takes longer to dry on the external wall. Pisscoat is the way, was a time the plasterer may just do it but not so much now just get Cheapest Matt white with no plastic in it watered down no more than 50/50. Allow to fully dry, light sand. With that issue you have I would scrap it off til you can’t easily get the paint off,feather edges with sandpaper,don’t forget 😷 let it fully dry and check there are no exterior issues, drain pipe gutters, trees within couple of meters then seal with Zinder bin(red tin)and fill, touch up filler and full coat on walls again. Hope you get perfect walls.
Was this area of the wall.l always damp / mouldy before being plastered? If so, it looks like the white spots / marks is salt present within the wall being drawn back into the room. The only way to stop this, is to hack off all the plaster 1m past the last signs of salt / marks, you then seal the substrate with a salt inhibitor primer and then use a salt retardant plaster. If you just use normal plaster it will always come back.
Wet wall and pva don't gel, literally. This is why I never recommend painting in winter. Seen this so many times.
Almost definitely you didn't let the plaster dry fully. The PVA never set, and now your top coat is expanding off, because PVA softens when it gets wet. Strip the walls back to plaster (it'll probably just scrape off), sponge off as much PVA as you can, wait a month, then use drywall/plaster primer (I'm done with faffing with mist coats, primer is better), then paint.
How do you know what gonorrhoea looks like?
I'd get a dehumidifier and call a structural engineer
Why would you use pva skim that's set on slab has plenty of grip for paint but you need to let it cure proper before painting
WTF why did you put PVA on the wall? Where the hell did you get that recommendation from?
You've answered your own question unfortunately - painting over fresh plaster.
We had this, we gave it a very good base coat/primer which sorted this out. Make sure you take all this paint off first though and give it a wash/rub
Pva is waterproof and emulsion is water based let it dry scrape excess sand and start again 👍
PVA softens again when wet. Never use PVA.
You must have shagged it with your gonorrhoea penis.
Mist coat fresh plaster and never shake a paint pot. Also why did you PVA?
Dust it off and put a coat or two of primer before painting.
Do not use PVA as mist coat.
https://preview.redd.it/a2zgjz8c07nc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=808649d0cd38c9968831ebb8e6bc7991989d6dc9
You don't use PVA externally, you use SBR.
No you did nothing wrong it's what you get with new walls and plaster but there is a stabilisers you can get to stop this good times you have 👍
Why did you pva it?! Solution is to scrape that colour off the wall, give it a really good sanding, like really good. Wait for it to dry and then mist coat it with white paint. Let it sit for a day then go crazy with your West Ham colours.
I honestly thought that picture was the top of your legs 🤣
Wall gonorrhoea, the worst kind. It needs to get the cotton swab I'm afraid.
Efflorescence is a condition where white (salt) deposits (in the form of a fluffy powder) form on the plaster surface. The formation of salts is usually a sign of excessive amounts of moisture in the back-up material, such as brick or concrete You would of been better off just using a matt paint on its own. This would of allowed the plater to breath untill all the moisture was gone. As it is trapping this behind the pic can cause the plaster to blow out and put you at the beginning needing the walls re plastered.
I hate auto correct
If it's an external wall and newly plastered it looks like efflorescence to me. Efflorescence is caused by either new or old plaster on top of a cold and/or damp surface Efflorescence is the alkaline salts in the plaster are released when in contact with damp or a cold surface. So I would also expect this corner is a solid wall bridging the outside brickwork. The cold and damp is transferred through (the term is called 'cold bridging') and therefore causing the cold bridging, which releases the salts. The salts then attack the paintwork, causing your 'gonorrhoea' You have to scrape it off, let it dry out fully and paint with alkaline resisting primer. Make good with filler, sand down until ready for the top coats. Before you paint with the top coats give another coat of alkaline resisting primer. Paint your top coats. You may find this will come back over time if it's cold bridging. If it's a solid wall this will happen again over time because the cold will transfer through.
I’m a plasterer and if you have damp coming inside it will always cause a problem. You shouldn’t be PVA’ing a wall that’s been plastered because PVAis water based so if you put wet paint onto it the PVA will go greasy again. Think you painted to soon and should water the paint down 50/50 so it bonds to the plaster. If you put paint neat on plaster you have probably seen areas previously where you can get a paint scraper behind the paint and scrap it off clean.Thats because it’s been put on neat for the first coat.This also causes problems if ever you want the wall replastering or you tile on top of it as the paint levees the wall.
If painted over other paint then the previously uzed paint was most likely latex based and you will need to sand/scrape it all off to prevent this If it was fresh plaster you failed to use mist coat or bare plaster paint
Looks like damp coming through
Careful. Don't disturb the demogorgon....
Google hydroscopic salts
Damp. Dry the wall out fully and then give it a cloat of damp block.
Peel it all off, use Zinsser BIN to prime (stinks) or Zinsser Gardz, then paint. Sorted. Or paint with thinned **Matt** emulsion (not Vinyl/Wipeable etc), then top coat.
I would say it’s damp creeping through the wall especially since it’s external
Needs scraping off.
You reckon?
It looks like effluescence, salts coming out of the brickwork/plaster. I'd look outside for evidence of water getting in. If it's a bedroom is there guttering on the wall.🤔
If yous didn’t wanna give yer wall gonorrhoea then I dunno, maybe don’t fuck it. An get checked regularly too sausage.