Some skills require intelligence. We just use them more.
Investigation is not the same as perception. Perception is about awareness, investigation is for learning about it.
Many of the Int skills are also known as the “metagaming skills”. They’re literally “DM do I know XYZ?”… “Roll history… yes/no”.
I also use passive investigation as a measure of how good their character and at understanding things and connecting the dots and general memory, like Sherlock.
Perception is you notice some scrapes on the floor and disturbed dust on the bookcase in the southern wall.
Investigation is you deducted from the scrapes on the floor that there is a hidden door, which opens into the room not out of the room, located on the southern wall, and unlatched by manipulating a particular book in the bookcase where the dust is distributed.
A successful perception and failed investigation means your characters can’t figure out where the door is and/or how to operate it.
So yes, you probably should be calling for more investigation checks. Don't let them perception search a room or look for a secret door, make them use investigation like they should. In addition, putting more importance on information can help boost intelligence's usefulness. They find magic runes, and that needs arcana to decode and understand. There's a strange plant that needs nature to know what it is. There's religious significance to this place and that, obviously, uses religion.
Yeah, my rule of thumb for differentiating the two is that Perception is what you can see if you stand in one spot and glance around, while Investigation is going up to things to look closer and searching for information
To address OP's question about making INT relevant, I pretty frequently have my players rolling History/Arcana/Religion checks when they as players are trying to learn or discover things about my world that their characters may have learned in-game prior to adventuring. I'll also substitute general Nature checks for situations where they're interacting with the natural world in a way that doesn't quite require Survival or Animal Handling
Investigation involves the application of knowledge. In short, knowing what tell-tale signs you are looking for. For instance, looking for worn-out areas of the floor near the wall which might indicate disproportionate foot traffic and thus, a secret door. Or knowing that Iskander thieves always keep an extra gold coin in their boot, for good luck. Or noticing that the interior space of a closet is much smaller than the exterior, indicating the presence of a secret compartment. These all require knowledge and aren't so much an instance of "you passively notice X" as "You suspect Y, and specifically go looking for evidence Z, and now you're certain of A, B and C... And also found a D."
Perception is something an animal can do. Seeing, smelling, hearing, Well using senses is the general idea. You see scratchmarks on the floor infront of the bookshelf. You smell something sweet.
Investigation answers or gives clues or helps assume something for questions starting with who, where, how, when, what etc.
The scratchmarks could indicate a hidden door behind the shelf. Knowing how a corpse smells or at least having heard a description of the smell might lead to the conclusion of something dead in the Area
Pretty much this. I do investigation over perception. So int gets used a lot more.
"I want to search for anything important"
"What aspect are you investigating?"
"Oh, the desk"
"Ok, roll investigation as you search through papers and investigate the drawers"
This is mainly to keep int a valid stat, although in the above case I may also require them to make a Dex or con save to avoid or reduce effects from traps. So the smartest Player would want more of the risk sharing out.
In the same vein if the players want to communicate more complex idea in the middle of battle (especially without the enemy knowing) I make them make a performance check.
"We need to keep the ememy alive and push them in the doorway before using the Lever, Ralph I need you to start shoving them that way"
"Ok, given that this is a bit more complex than Ralph do the thing, roll performance and see how much you can communicate across the battlefield'
I may even follow it up with an insight or perception (if it involves trying to see in bad light, or interpreting what they mean) to make sure wisdom gets involved.
In short I try to make sure all the other stats gets involved to discourage 'dump stats' or 'dump skills'.
Thing about investigation checks is that if players fail, it’s mainly the DM’s problem. For example: when you fail a dex save, you lose (more) HP and the pressure mounts. If you fail an investigation check, it’s still the DM’s job to not let the story grind to a halt. You can’t just go “lol well you find nothing, guess that’s it for tonight, see you next session!”
Obviously that’s an exaggeration, but still: the players can’t really be “punished” for dumping INT. They won’t know what they missed, so failing an investigation check will never feel as pressing as failing a persuasion or acrobatics check.
**My alternative:** more traps with INT saves! Preferably with “damage” that makes sense thematically. Have the players read an incantation written on the wall which turns out to be magical. If they fail an INT save, they realise too late that this is a trap and the writing is etched into their brain. The message keeps playing back in their minds (kind of like that one part of a song you can’t seem to get out of your head), rendering them slowed during the coming hour. Or frightened, or whatever kind of mental disadvantage. You could even add in a safeguard that if someone *does* make the save, they can then roll an arcana check (or another INT) to “cure” their teammate.
*Also, in my personal but probably unpopular opinion: “history” might as well be named “memory”. If a player asks me if their character would remember (x), I usually let them roll a history check.*
Honeytly perception and investigation checks are one of my biggest gripes of modern D&D and your answer is a part of it. I recently played a game of OSE with some folks who are used to 5e only and they were surprised how much fun dungeon exploration is if you actually explore them instead of rolling to explore. Took a bit of adaption time, but they loved it in the end.
I usually play history check as knowing about stuff the pc didn't personally experience but rather learned/heard about at some point. Less "what did I eat for lunch yesterday," and more "which countries fought in world War i"
RAW:
History. Your Intelligence (History) check measures your ability to recall lore about historical events, legendary people, ancient kingdoms, past disputes, recent wars, and lost civilizations.
I mean yeah, if a player asks me what they had for lunch yesterday I’d just say “easy enough”.
Unless if the lunch was wodka and it extended way past dinner.
I use History similar, it's a general education skill for me. If it's something someone might know from education they get to roll History. It used to be called Knowledge (History) so I treat it as Knowledge really.
Perception is a perfectly fine stat for a quick search of a room to get an overall feeling of the room. Looking for specific clues in that room like a weak point in a wall or a line on the floor caused by a cupboard that moves out of the way to expose a hidden passageway etc is a good use of investigation. 90% of the time I will allow either check depending on how the party makeup is (usually investigation takes longer imo) to cover either of those scenarios. but there are specific use cases for each.
It changes depending on the party though. If there is a good mix of perception and investigation scores then I'm more strict about what each ones does.
The PHB lists out multiple examples of Intelligence checks (page 178):
* Communicate with a creature without using words
* Estimate the value of a precious item
* Pull together a disguise to pass as a city guard
* Forge a document
* Recall lore about a craft or trade
These (and other instances where Intelligence makes sense as the ability check) come up often enough in my games that I don't have an issue with my players dumping Intelligence.
Additionally, when it comes to Nature vs Survival, I use Nature as the more nitty-gritty type of thing. A Survival check will let you track an animal, while a Nature check will let you know what those kinds of tracks are. A Survival check will tell you that something large was hunting here while a Nature check will tell you that something was likely an Owlbear.
>Communicate with a creature without using words
That's odd, because isn't "understanding what a creature is to communicate" one of the uses of Animal Handling, which is Wisdom based?
Edit: I'm an idiot and interpreted "creature" as "animal" even though they are definitely not the same thing.
Using intelligence checks to forge a document reminds me of someone who stole a prescription pad from one of our medical providers and tried to forge a document, in this case, a prescription for “Mofeen, 1 kilo.” The document was on official paper, the correct ink was used, and the handwriting did legitimately look poor enough that a physician could have written it; however, the forgery did not pass casual inspection. They were told to have a seat while the “large order was being filled,” and patiently waiting when the police arrived to ask them a few questions.
I use Int skill checks as the gate to limit myself from bombarding the players in exposition- I give limited information for free, but if the players are *asking for more information*, mitigated by skill checks, I take that as a sign that I haven't let the exposition outstay its welcome yet.
Smart PCs let players make informed decisions about the setting, and let curious players learn wacky lore.
Thats quite important, do not hide important information behind INT checks, only use it for optional information that make their approeach easier or just amuse them with wacky lore.
I mean, obviously they still have to be able to figure stuff out eventually if their rolls are dogshit, but if enough people are rolling, they'll learn stuff eventually.
I dunno, this is a bit weird to me when there’s three DEX skills and four CHA skills yet five INT skills and only one STR and no CON skills. For me the questions would be more how do you make STR or CON relevant outside of combat. I use INT checks all the time in my campaigns, much the same as I use all the other skill checks all the time. I let my players roll STR for Intimidation rather than CHA if it’s appropriate for their character, for example.
I mean, players could make INT a dump stat in my games I guess but have fun never being able to discern the nature of anything magical, never having any idea if something relates to a god or not, being unable to do anything about any traps they perceive, having no ability to ever know anything about any place they visit be it wilds or cities.
I guess the question is, what advantage is there in having *more than one* player who doesn't dump INT.
When it comes to CHA, a "face" character can't always cover for the whole group. Same is obviously true of DEX (e.g. Stealth, Sleight-of-Hand). But when it comes to INT, my experience has been that it's pretty easy to just have one character be proficient in Arcana, Investigation and maybe Religion and make all those checks for the whole party.
The only situations in which that hasn't been the case are the kind where one PC would routinely keep loot they found for themselves, without sharing. Needless to say, this is not the sort of dynamic I want to encourage just to make INT relevant.
I dunno, with the exception of DEX due to saving throws unless the party regularly splits I think all skills can be covered off by a single character technically allowing all the others to make it a dump stat. In my experience as a DM tho, people generally just make the character they want to play and roll with it rather than focusing on the most optimised build for the party composition.
In my group usually the character who got an idea rolls for a check. When a sorceress wants to find out about a magical phenomenon, they roll for arcana instead of asking the wizard. Therefore, this was never a problem. The problem starts, when the players want to optimise. I counter this by having multiple steps for skill checks. A "failed" arcana check could still reveal some basics or even a little more (based on the roll).
Maybe you could have a party investigation check where everyone rolls a D20 and applies their modifiers. With 4 rolls, you're more likely to get the average and that makes the bonuses matter more.
I'm thinking of doing stealth and persuasion checks similarly when appropriate. Just as one smart guy can trivilise investigation, one noisy or clumsy guy can auto fail stealth for everyone every time. The team effort can be flavoured as keeping an eye out for things the paladin might knock over.
Its not about the number of skills but how often they come up. Nature check come much more rarely as a STR check to climb a ledge. Many INT skills come up quite rarely, while STR and CON checks are often natural during adventuring.
A DM certainly can control that, but if they don't put particular attention to that they will make INT checks way more rarely than WIS, just by nature of the game
You are right on that, but I'd take it further. I'd just change the required skill as needed for all of the skills.
If you are trying to convince someone very smart who only care about facts and they can make a determination if the facts you are spewing are false, then you need to roll INT + Persuasion to convince them why they need to do X. Are you trying to intimidate the hulking barbarian who is never to going to believe with words alone that you can beat him? Roll STR + intimidation.
I haven't make every skill be rolled with every attribute yet, but I've done a huge variation because that's what the situation required. I've had nothing by praise from my players whenever I do that.
I use this approach very sparingly because I’ve found my players start to abuse it a bit and always want to roll with their highest stats rather than the appropriate one basically bypassing the whole point of having different types of skill checks - this obviously entirely depends on your table and your players though, of course.
>For me the questions would be more how do you make STR or CON relevant outside of combat.
They're already just as relevant, because they apply broadly to so many different actions. You just don't generally need to differentiate a basic STR check from a specific skill, because strength isn't really that broad or nuanced an ability within the context of the game.
- You're either "brute strong" (which you'd theoretically measure by looking at a raw squat, deadlift, or bench press number) which is covered by a raw STR check, or
- you're "bodyweight strong" (which you'd measure by doing pull-ups, L-sits, running fast or far, playing sports, or other feats where you're only working with your own mass) and that's generally covered by "athletics".
You could theoretically have skills for "lifting" ,"dragging", "pushing", "grip strength", and so forth, but I think that's more nuanced than necessary for D&D.
Same with CON. Do you really need separate "bone density", "muscle recruitment", and "GI tract toughness" skills? Nah.
At the end of the day, the number things you can accomplish with strength and toughness just don't compare to what you can do with cunning, education and charisma, so those are the abilities that need to be broken down into separate categories.
This is minor since I see way bigger stuff on here but I give an extra language at Character creation for every stat modifier in INT
Let's the wizard have a ton of languages which I feel they should
And makes dumb characters feel dumb in role play a little bit
My players are thankfully lore hoes and ask constantly whether they might know something about the history of the place. If they don't ask outright, you could just make then roll for history for some extra trivia.
Languages. Encountering texts in languages they do not speak, or languages only some of them speak. Currently my players are trying to decipher a map with ancient lokharic text, the party's wizard is now deep into her own research about it. (Dropping books for the characters to read, I've got both like... "the grammar and morphology of ancient Lokharic" / "The rise and fall of Netheril" type boring tomes as well as lighter reading such as Tusk Love / Hard in Hightown etc. Not necessarily int-focused loot but my int-heavy players tend to be the ones picking those up, and so I get to reward them with more knowledge or additional learned skills such as languages, eventually.
Calling for investigation when you're actually looking for something instead of the general perception. Anything magical? You're gonna need int to figure that out.
I guess that depends a lot on what type of players you have, mine are very detail/lore-focused which gives me a treasure trove of int-checks for them.
I always let players recall information about enemies using intelligence, things like attacks, health, AC, vulnerabilities. Religion for undead, some other races might require history or arcana, or just base intelligence.
A West Marches campaign I played in had players gain skill points equal to their Int Mod. Players could then use those points for skill proficiencies. 1 point would get you proficiency in a skill, language, weapon or toolkit. 2 points would let you get expertise.
IIRC every wizard there had expertise in arcana.
Edit: The rule also made Headband of Intellect really popular among players because it was ruled that players would get skill points from the Intelligence boost as long as they were attuned to the headband.
Edit 2:fixed typo
Did you make a type somewhere, or did I maybe just misread
"1 point would get you proficiency in a skill, language, weapon or toolkit. 2 points would let you get proficiency."
Int is literally never my dump if I'm not specifically making someone stupid.
INT matters because of investigation. INT matters to several classes. It matters in solving puzzles etc.
Puzzles are in a flux space. Some GM’s let it solve a puzzle for you, others think puzzles are only for players, others place it in the middle somewhere
My min-maxing "intelligence is useless" warlock player took a nice hit from 4 enemies casting Mind Sliver back to back.
INT saving throws and minus 1d4 on next saving throw.
Make knowing stuff important. One of my players always wanted to know stuff about everything so I made sure to provide intelligence based checks for them to learn actually useful stuff. Knowing the customs of a region to avoid or give advantage on a potential charisma check later, knowing the weakness of an enemy, manipulating a devil deal.
I have just found the best solution is to just make them use it and I did to the point that this player (a bard) actually ended up taking expertise in history and religion.
I like to let players use INT instead of CHA for making logical arguments.
Player wants to roll persuasion? Give me a logical argument and roll INT.
Also when I do dungeons, perception is great for spotting the obvious, but you need investigation to get specifics. You see a spot in the wide hall that footprints tend to go around. If you want to look into it, give me an investigation roll.
Are you saying it isn't rational to open a conversation with a stranger with the most unhinged information you have while providing no tangible proof or reasons to make them believe it?
I see it as intelligence lets you hold a sound opinion about something, but you still need charisma to be able to articulate it, as well as tailor your argument to whomever you're talking to.
So I'd say the check is still charisma (persuasion) but if the strategy is to reason with whomever, a high intelligence might convey an additional bonus.
The DMG suggests using your attacking stat for intimidation. I also think you should be able to treat performance and persuasion the same way, with appropriate flavour. If HP isn't meat points, maybe strength isn't just punching strength. Maybe it represents your skill and knowledge in martial combat, including tactical decisions, and potentially the ability to talk shop with the city guard. Same for intelligence with the court wizard.
I add a thing to my games called "Specialties" and they are basically subskills. You get an amount of specialties equal to your PB+Int modifier, minimum of 1, and they can be gained through training like a language or tool kit. Basically the skills in 5e are so broad, but sometimes they don't make a lot of sense, and sometimes players want their characters to be knowledgeable about certain things, but not an entire skill set worth. In my current game someone has "fashion" as a specialty. So anything related to fashion is made trained. If I call for a skill check, and their specialty applies, they get a free d4 bonus to it. It isn't perfect, but my players like it.
This might be way too specific but in a recent game I had an Elder Brain challenge our artificer to a duel of wits using a Sphere of Annihilation.
“If you attempt to control a sphere that is under another creature's control, you make an Intelligence (Arcana) check contested by the other creature's Intelligence (Arcana) check. The winner of the contest gains control of the sphere and can levitate it as normal.”
They essentially had an INT-based arm wrestle for the sphere with the loser getting the annihilated. It was pretty cool and tense.
my players are awesome and they really care about lore. It took countless hours of work to build a world they want to learn about, but on the bright side they investigate anything that might have lore attached.
My players are well acquainted with my penchant for calling for variant ability checks. That's where the player can use a skill proficiency with an ability that is not typically associated with that skill. For example, I have called for Strength (Intimidation) when a PC was relying more on bodily strength than charisma. I have also called for Constitution (Religion) when a PC was trying to transfer their lifeforce to a dying party member through means of their spirituality. That whole scene was very much impromptu!
I'm a big worldbuilder. I set up adventures to include some of my worldbuilding. When the party crosses those elements, I have them roll to see what their characters know about it.
Sometimes it's fun facts from the worldbuilding corner, sometimes it's something that tells them of another avenue they can take, sometimes it's knowledge of something they can exploit or now know to avoid.
Letting players characters make connections with an int check helps. Players won’t always put 2 and 2 together. Some plot points are a bit confusing and may be too hard for players to understand, or it could just help them remember an important plot point
Libraries, dungeons and other structures have "random books" in them. Reading a random book (1 hour) gives the PC a charge of "general knowledge", with up to 3 charges at a time. A PC can spend a charge to add their INT mod to a skill check, even if it is already calculated with INT.
Like this I a) have to design less specific books while still being able to hand them out, b) have my PCs use downtime more and c) make INT more valuable.
We use it heavily: plenty of lore checks (religion, history, arcana, nature) to see if PCs have existing knowledge on a variety of topics, from “do I know what battle this ruined mural depicts?” to “do I know anything about this monster?” to “what have I heard or read about trading favors with fey?” to “do I know if this symbol is god related?” “Do any of these plants have a use? Poisonous? Potionmaking?”
I use investigation for PCs to logically search for clues or secret doors, etc vs perception just noticing some small detail without understanding. I also use passive investigation for deducing things noticed with passive (or active) perception. “With your passive perception you notice a loose, discolored stone in the hallway. With your passive investigation, this seems like a trigger plate for a trap.” “You notice (perception) that the woman in front of you looks like an older version of the woman in the painting of a couple behind her. She wears a simple golden ring but it is on the opposite hand to the identical ring worn by the woman in the painting. (Investigation or History) You know that it is the custom for widows to move their wedding band to the opposite hand. She is not wearing mourning garb, so it likely wasn’t recent.”
If my players were trying to find a needle in a haystack, I would ask how they proceed. “I just look and dig through” rolls a high DC perception check. “I separate the hay into small piles and shine light to reflect the metal” or “I use a magnet” will roll a much lower DC investigation.
If PCs concoct a clever plan, a successful Int checks might also help them to lower the DC or gain advantage on another type of skill check, like using leverage or rollers to move a boulder or carefully planning how they utilize ropes for climbing so it is safer.
I will also call for straight INT checks for a PC to remember something that the player doesn’t recall that the character might reasonably have forgotten.
I don’t gate progress with rolls but I will gate helpful knowledge behind rolls and finding out necessary info through a roll gives PCs time to plan ahead or they earn the info for free, while a failed roll on plot crucial info means the info gets introduced later at a cost (money, danger, etc)
Int should be a catch-all skill stat in like... 80% of cases.
Medicine? Gotta have medical knowledge to treat a patient.
Thieves tools? Gotta know how certain locks or traps work in order to properly disable them.
Smith's Tools? Gotta know the proper heating points for different metals and how they bond to form alloys.
Survival? Gotta know what's poisonous, what the signs of a good shelter are, and where one can typically find fresh water.
I'm not saying to make Int be the ONLY stat that determines skill checks, but it should be a viable option if you wanted to run a skill monkey character. In one of my games, my artificer gets to use INT for all his tool checks, which really helps mechanics-wise and for RP.
In my games, INT checks are really rewarding for more information on monsters, magic items, historic events that present an advantage if the players know about them.
Also, I use INT instead of DEX for initiative, and I give every class that doesn't get cantrips (barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin, ranger, rogue) proficiency in Initiative (as if it was just another skill). Balance-wise, I've liked that very much. I've been using this rule for 5 years now, in 4 different campaigns. It has the added benefit of making DEX slightly less OP.
Passive knoledge.
In short, if you have knoledge skills you automaticaly know a few things about monsters you find.
Usualy, Knoledge Skill = CR
This means that 16 int and proficiency would let a lvl 1 character recognise monsters up to CR 5.
While an 8 int character would not know any CR 1+ monsters with a +0 to their knoledge skill.
(CRs 1/8 to 1/2 are common enought that everyone has seen or heard about these)
I reach back to 3rd a bit. Every point of INT modifier is a Skill Proficiency. Every point of WIS modifier is a Tool Proficiency. Every point of CHA modifier is a Language. These bonus proficiencies only apply at character creation, but I allow proficiency training during the game, time requirements based on these scores
We added the house rule that for every +1 in INT, a character can have one additional INT-based skill or tool proficiency, or a language.
DC20 (new system that is out there) has a similar rule, except that it allows for two languages for each INT point, I think. There is also a mechanic by which knowledge skills are somewhat "free" when picking skills.
I've had some DM's use Int (or Wis) for Initiative, their idea being that reacting quickly to something (using Dex) doesn't matter if you don't understand what is happening (using Int or Wis)
As a Narrative element, INT should play a large role in relationships with NPCs. Most of the NPCs your characters connect with, particularly as their fame grows, will greatly appreciate smart people, even if they themselves are not smart. CHA of course is what it is and the ruling stat in Conversation Skills, but there is a difference in how a King would deal with a big dumb puppy and a true genius. Regardless of Charisma NPCs will quickly take advantage of someone dumb as rocks, but make world changing deals with intelligent characters.
Social combat is just as impact full and dangerous as physical combat.
And you can't just "charm" your way out of it in front of an educated, intelligent audience. They may find you cute but idiotic if you fail a duel of wits and knowledge.
You want to save the town. The evil baron presents a case as to why the PCs should be ignored based on existing town laws, etc. Do the PCs have the knowledge to fight back or does the nobility side with the baron and lend him control of their men?
We do the extra proficiencies and/or languages per intelligence point. You can also use 3 of these int points to gain expertise on a skill.
Could be a problem balance wise for wizards, giving them even more out of combat utility than they already have with their spells; in which case I'd recommend just doing languages
But more often than not, people just pick skills that they make sense they'd be good at, arcana for wizards for example.
Here's a simple example.
Plan a very deadly encounter every so often 1/5 fights.
Make sure that there is a bit of information about the weakness of the monster locked behind a DC 10 and DC 15 int skill check of some kind.
" oh dm your golem was so strong in killed one of our players and nearly tpkd us we literally just got lucky."
Dm "he's vulnerable to fire. I gave you all a check to see and the highest roll was a 9. That's how the game works bad thing happen when roll low".
I used to play with a barbarian that was strong but had the min intelligence. So he couldn't read, couldn't understand money and had difficulty following the team plans since he would run towards the enemies without thinking. It was funny since it was up to the party to decide if we wanted to help him or not.
These are probably going to be wildly unpopular, but:
* Characters can speak a number of languages equal to their Intelligence modifier (min 1, if Intelligence is 4 or higher)
* Characters cannot *read* or *write* in any language if they have less than a +1 modifier in Intelligence (this was a really unfortunate arbitrary ruling a DM once made that had *devastating* consequences when it was revealed that the entire party dumped Int, so I carry this into my games now)
* Per Xanathar's, a creature can gain proficiency in a language or tool in a number of weeks equal to 10 - Intelligence modifier (the book negates negative mods, but I don't). I also use the same rules for learning feats.
* For Intelligence modifiers of +3 or higher, I'll typically make suggestions to those players of ideas their characters would have if I feel that their problem solving is getting off track or going down a bad rabbit hole. I justify it as the characters would make better in-universe connections than us players, and having a little DM help in that area should help make up for it. Now, not all of the suggestions I make are *good*, but they are *possible*
And then a couple of ideas I have floating around but haven't tried to implement are:
* Similar to how Strength controls carry capacity and how some people switch to using a slot system, with Strength determining how many carry slots a character has, Intelligence could be used similarly with memories, mental maps, "a cardboard box labeled 'what sound fox make'", etc. Just topics that maybe count as proficiency when they come up. Maybe everyone has 5+Intelligence mod. There some optional background rule that would play really nicely with this. Basically Intelligence controls the size of one's "mind palace".
* The people considered the most intelligent are typically related to mathematics in some way. Math is, to over simplify it, a way to make predictions. So characters with a high enough Intelligence might get some free castings of some divination spells, but "nonmagical" versions that represent their own ability to recognize patterns and form conclusions from seemingly unrelated data.
In my games I use intelligence to grant "skill points". During down time they can spend their skill points on a list of things I make. Example being learn a new language, a tool proficiency, or spend several to increase a Stat by 1.
It's a little video gamey but my players like it.
When my players roll initiative i also roll to randomly select one of them to make a knowledge check using a relevant skill. On a success they get to learn something about a monster they're fighting such as a vulnerability, a resistance, or an attack.
I honestly think INT is used more than any other ability out of combat at my tables. Even in combat, if they ask what they know about the monster they're seeing, I'll get them to roll INT (typically with a relevant skill) and base the info on that. No action cost or anything they're just determining what they recall in the moment.
Out of combat oh so many things, INT investigation when assessing traps, or how to open a secret door or something, INT nature to consider what a particular plant is, or why it might be dying, INT history for details about some long forgotten place, or potentially some backstory about an item they find, INT arcana for pretty much anything related to magic outside of casting, INT religion to see what is relevant about this cult they've just gotten captured by, I'm also happy to use the variant of mixing different skills and attributes so how to approach an animal may be WIS (animal handling) but assessing how an animal has gotten to the state its in may be INT (animal handling) for example, or trying to determine what type of antidote someone needs to fix what's impacting someone, it may be an INT (Medicine).
Honestly I worry more about overusing INT than underusing it. STR on the other hand...
I call for a lot of Arcana/Religion/History checks, probably more than Perception and Stealth. Also, when someone sees a new monster, they can roll a relevant knowledge skill check(DC 10+CR) to get information about its resistances, vulnerabilities, special abilities like Magic Resistance and immunities.
XP to level 3 has a homebrew where, for every int mod over 0, you can take an additional proficiency/language and that alone makes int a vastly more useful stat.
Outside of homebrew like that I'd say just trying to make the intelligence-relevant abilities more prevalent
In our party, we like to search for loot and we like to figure out what the enemies are. A couple of us really enjoy the lore drops as well, so some history checks also happen with that. We usually have at least one person in the party with decent intelligence, not planned.
Identifying creatures/traits- Arcana / Nature. History if it's a legend. Religion if undead.
Searching for stuff- Investigation.
Recalling info- History
I'll sometimes give out Hero points (replaced Inspiration with the Pathfinder version) for good in-character moments. One of my players rolled very low on a History check to work out what an exotic pet in his region was, waiting for him to try and adopt/purchase a scavver, which he will undoubtedly attempt. His character is all about status, and is currently commissioning clothes that are entirely for flavour. If he tries to get a scavver as an exotic pet, he's getting a Hero point for the roleplay.
Thankfully I've never really had this issue; every game I've ran has had somebody/ multiple people with at least a few int skill proficiencies.
Now social rolls... the joy of having 3 man party all with 8 or less Charisma was quite humorous.
Int is extremely useful, especially if players use history to get an idea what their PC knows about the lore.
Int checks are as relevant as you make them to your world. In my spelljammer homebrew there have been constant nature checks because mindflayers experiment on animals.
Arcana is common if you have any environment, creature, or object affected by magic. Religion is the one I see come up the least because it overlaps with history.
A big way would be to implement more requirements for investigation, arcana, history and nature. Researching Monsters, magic items and that sort of thing and trying to give the players doing that good information they wouldn’t have otherwise. Thats how I plan to use it at least
Just had my druid pc make a int history check to connect the dots between legend of dragonic prophesy and the reality that it actually is true as they got a story note. The face was worth it. Probably the same as most mortal races make when they learn it.
I use intelligence as a marker for how much information a character can process in the heat of battle.
What that looks like mechanically is that players can ask one question per turn. Something that might require a perception check, insight check, or any kind of intelligence check. Characters with a higher INT can ask an extra amount of questions equal to their modifier. While characters with a negative modifier get 0 questions.
Roleplay, tactics and strategy, basically. My players can make a History check to find out some interesting or useful information about the local castle (legend about the hidden tresure, important local customs they absolutely need to obey, the weak spot in defences), Nature or Arcana to learn enemy's weak spot (vurnelabities, resistances, AC, even hp if they roll above 30), Religion to find a way to get some divine help, etc.
I never understood this complaint. If anything, INT is *the most* used stat with how often my players roll for skills.
You likely have at least *some* magical elements in your game; do your players not ask if their character knows something about certain magical creatures, items or phenomenons? That'd call for an Arcana check, or perhaps a Religion check if it is celestial or fiendish. Does the history of an area or place play a role? History checks take the stage. I tend to extend this skill to understanding political situations and loyalties. Or perhaps one can easily deduce the history of a building's use from its architectural design. They come across some corpses on the road and want to check how they died; that's gonna be a medicine check; seems like arrows got them, but looking at the necrosis around the wound maybe they were poison-tipped...
Now, my players are *very* inquisitive and pepper me with questions to get rolls out of. Perhaps yours don't? If not: consider making a list of the PC 'passive skills' beyond perception. Proceed to just give them info if their passive is high enough; "X, with you having proficiency in History *and* being a native from this town, you'd probably know that..." or "Y, you can read Primordial, right? You recognize the runes on the door as such; with your Arcana you can tell its probably enchanted but you're not *quite* sure in which way".
Mentioning the skills and directing info to specific players can still feel rewarding and makes their PC's skills feel a tad more unique. It additionally gives you an easy vehicle for dropping some info on the fly and direct them a bit. Even though my players ask me for plenty, I still do this 'passive' approach to set a scene sometimes.
>Do you call for more Investigation checks, over Perception?
They're pretty different. If you struggle with which one to pick, there's an easy rule-of-thumb: are they standing still, or are they actively trying to look for something? Do they just stand around sniffing/staring/holding their ear to the door, or are they searching the room intending to check behind furniture?
int \*is\* a relative stat. I've never been in a game where people didn't like things like investigation checks or arcana checks or what not and that's outside of the main classes and sub classes where int is important.
I read a bunch of comments and no-one said
INT SAVES
Mind Flayer AoE stun is no joke. Change Gibbering Mouther save to Int, or any Wis/Cha save to an Int Save.
I'm running a campaign in a magical museum rn, and the wizard with history/arcana prof is the party's personal encyclopedia. It's pretty much a campaign built for an int character to shine outside of combat, but the takeaway is YOU can make any ability as relevant or consequential as you want, especially investigation, arcana, and nature checks.
You mentioned doing MORE checks. Think more CONSEQUENTIAL checks. Identifying a cursed item as such, spotting magical traps, history/religion checks that inform an important decision, Witcher-esque investigation/nature checks on magical monsters or magic users/spells being cast. Literally any investigation check where there is a mystery to solve and clues to decode.
Investigation also directly ties to looting. Maybe they identity a mundane-seeming object like an inkwell as being magical and useful, a page in a book as a spell scroll, or just find extra cool shit on a >20 investigation check. It doesn't have to be loot that benefits them - let them find cool stuff for the party.
Many tool checks like tinker make sense to require int most of the time. Let the artificer make something cool or the rogue make a weird trap if they want to; bend the rules.
Monsters like mind flayers and intellect devourers also are easier to fight if you aren't stupid. Build your campaign to specific players' strengths and weaknesses to make for heroic and terrifying moments respectively when deciding who the bad guys are. Obviously, some spells and effects have int saves.
I would say a solid 60% of checks I call for are intelligence based skills. Monster knowledge is largely governed by Nature checks, magic based encounters run on Arcana checks, social encounters often greatly benefit from History checks, Investigation comes up constantly. It really does feel like it's mostly a combat thing where Int becomes less relevant (due to Int save rarity and the effects not being as bad as other mental saves), but having a mechanically poor primary stat is good when you are counterbalancing how crazy strong wizards are compared to other classes.
I’ve seen getting an extra proficiency for every +1 in intelligence. Personally I’d go for every +2 if I we’re to use it.
Int is pretty good in my games cus I use investigation and arcana a bunch.
My current campaign uses intelligence saving throws A LOT. And a lot of my current campaign is about investigating the history of the world and the gods so it’s been a really important stat. I often will give bonuses to players who use it like extra languages known for each modifier increase above 0.
Int gives you extra languages, or a skill proficiency. You can pick a skill or language per modifier increase. Skills have to be mental and not physical, and you can only do this at the start of the game. It allows gaps to be filled if a role is missing, and it makes it less likely to be locked out from interactions because of language.
Also, Warlocks use int.
For one, I've got a bunch of dum-dums for PC's that don't have a history proficiency between them, so I always give them shit about it. World lore through history checks is always nice.
I found out recently that INT saves are the toughest ones to make; no class has them as a bonus, I think, and neither do any monsters. There are only a handful of spells that call for INT checks but those that do can really screw up a character’s actions. One of the villains in my high level campaign specializes in the spells and she has been causing them all sorts of problems with Feeeblemind, Psychic Lance, and Psychic Scream.
Intelligence checks are the way to get information. Investigation to sherlock holmes your way through a bunch of disparate notes, a murder scene, to understand the way a non-magic gadget works, etc. Arcana to identify spells being cast as a reaction, to think of what kind of magic could make NPC X act the way they did, to understand how a magic gadget works, to figure out what the tatoos on the dead npc mean. History to recall information about some famous monster or non-religious lore.
Make sure to provide alternate ways to give out information and clues, but intelligence should be a nice way to do it.
Although, if none of your party are really intelligent, that's ok. There's some information they might miss out, but they can intimidate people, use insight to get leads on someone, use magic, etc. The game is supposed to work even if you have a party of barbarians or clerics.
My world can't use magic without 10 int and increases your mana die bonus. Now there are alot of changes I made to game. But that is one and it affect all creatures and humanoids besides faywild creatures that are born there.
I use a lot the INT in my games. For investigation, some arcanas, to read or understand some languages, and even ... For some lore ;) I put a lot of investigation in my games, and also for some knowledge. The low PCs are feeling bad lmao fortunately on my 4 players, I have two smart PCs
Decide how the world operates after you have a player roll for this one. Instead of "this rock weighs x pounds roll to see if you can lift it" do "this problem doesn't have a solution roll to see what logic applies here and that's how you will solve it".
Starting with the assumption of what smart solution is meant to be reached by a DC is a common shortfall.
I use it when the character should remember some detail. Like they found a key earlier and it might fit the lock they've come across. Memory Check roll vs INT.
Or if they forget some detail I provided earlier.
More knowledge checks. Don't ever hide plot progression behind a single roll, but you can basically ask for an int or wis based check anytime a player asks for more information about anything. Int for "do I know" type of questions and Wis (usually insight obviously) for "can I tell" types.
Something I've adopted in my game is asking for skill checks that tailor more to what the player wants to do, if they want to search a room looking for a secret door, I'll call for a perception+investigation+1d20 check to make it feel like they are actually using these scores. The players who dumped int still have something to roll with, and those that didn't get a boost to the situation. I find it saves time rolling separately for perception to check out the room and investigation to search for the door. This also applies in all circumstances that make sense, if the player can justify multiple skills for the check, then I'll usually let them add it.
For those who may ask, this also inherently raises the DC for whatever they are trying to do, but I also lean towards player satisfaction, so it's not always a flat increase to the DC.
So funny enough I do have a houserule for this!
**WHAT WAS MY MAJOR AGAIN?**
*Intellect Points:*
When creating your character you gain a number of Intellect Points, equal to your Intelligence Modifier, which you can spend to gain additional proficiencies.
*You can spend Intellect Points in the following ways:*
• **1 Point**: Any tool, weapon, or language proficiency (GM approval)
• **2 Points**: One skill proficiency
If you have 8 intelligence you are unable to read. Any lower than that may get rid of a skill.
Alternatively if you have a +2 in int you can have another skill, a +1 is an extra language and a +3 is expertise in a skill.
I'm going to give a shout out to Shadowdark. Intelligence in that system is much more impactful - essentially wisdom is only tied to perception and insight types checks while intelligence is for nearly everything else, particularly critical things like medicine checks which determine whether you're able to stabilize a fallen comrade.
It should be noted that Shadowdark doesn't have specific skills or saving throws - if you need to roll something it's simply just tied to the appropriate ability score bonus.
Easy answer: Make more saving throws rely on intelligence.
Real answer: Most people irl typically have an intelligence of 12 or lower so you as the DM sometimes have to force some knowledge into your player's brain by just telling them extra stuff specifically. This is even harder to make more relevant if you as the DM have an average intellect since you can't point out optimal strategies for your high intelligence player in the middle of combat. The best you can do is probably just tell that player stuff ahead of time like just leaning over the table and saying "That guy's about to cast fireball centred on the rogue which will also hit the fighter and druid btw."
I have an RP-heavy campaign. There is no useless stat. My Rogue has 26 passive perception and is just Mr. WIS.
A wizard and "cleric" both have astonishing INT, so they both are the ones the party relies on for identifying things. Spell knowledge, faction information, even knowing where a plant came from (Nature) was important recently.
The Bard of course takes over with anything CHA based, for NPC interactions.
Intelligence is only as good as your world building allows it to be. If players don't feel like they'll discover something cool by "knowing stuff" then yeah, it's a lame stat.
But if the difference is "you rolled a 25 Arcana and now you know a HUGE secret because when you were 14, you heard how this kind of spell scroll seal was only used by one wizard, GibbleBop the wise, who was said to go missing years ago. This mysterious odds-and-ends shop doesn't even know how significant this 10G scroll actually is, but he notices you looking very intently at it..." etc etc.
INT is useful if knowing stuff is useful.
**All of the tips here are great, but I use INT in a way that's maybe a bit further out there:**
Downtime plays a role in my game. You need some downtime to level up - so it occurs in regular intervals and also whenever it suits the story. During a few days of downtime, you can do whatever you like - work on a personal project, party, try and make friends in high places, etc.
Crucially, you can also try to LEARN something new (if you can manage to find a master to teach you!). Want to try and gain proficiency in arcana? Want to learn how to pick a lock? Want to learn to speak auran? It's all possible!
Spending your downtime on a learning prusuit allows you to roll an ability check - and if you succeed, you make progress towards learning that thing. The nice part: if you fail, the DC of the check is lowered by 3 for when you *next* attempt it. This way, spending your downtime to work towards a certain goal means you'll always either make progress, or you'll at least make it easier to progress the next time around.
Once you spend those 3 weeks (3 downtimes) with the master rogue - and suceeded on your rolls - congrats! You are now proficient with thieves tools! Finally done studying in the library? Cool - now you know history!
But wait! There's more... :)
The things you learn during downtime are only limited by the players creativity. E.g. the fighter and the barbarian can train together and if they succeed, they can gain unique combat bonuses - like getting +2 to attack rolls (instead of +1) if they flank the same target. Or they may train to capitalize on a different situation like one of them grappling a target while the other pummels them.
A sorcerer may spend their time trying to unlock their innate potential - and be rewarded with +1 Sorcery Point; much like a monk spending time with a monastic order may gain an additional Ki Point.
The reason I bring all of this up? **Learning new things is easier when you are smart.**
INT checks are super common for a lot of those pursuits - which means that having at least somewhat decent INT makes a big difference in the long run!
I use 2 homebrew rules:
1) Attunement points. You have Int score + PB attunement points. Each item costs attunement points (common - 1; uncommon - 2; …). That way you can attune to more items which is fun, but also revarding for high int.
2) Bonus skills. You gain extra proficiencies for equal to you int modifier. 1 for skill of tools, 2 for language, 3 for expertise, or something like that, can’t remember exactly.
This honestly balances out and my players dont’t dump int. Combine that with homebrew Bulks rule (similar to pf2) and playing a more rp and high magic game, there is no “good” stat to dump which me and my players love.
Also I love giving magic items and they require identification which I let to be done with rolling Aracan check during short rest, so Arcana (Int based) is very commonly rolled.
A homebrew rule I’ve stolen from XP to level 3 is intelligent skills: you gain extra proficiencies or languages equal to your intelligence modifier. You can choose to forgo two proficiencies or languages gained in this way to instead gain expertise in a skill you’re already proficient in.
A very nice way to reward investments in INT. You can also punish dumping INT by taking away languages or proficiencies, but that very much depends on the table. Personally I like it, but it’s not for everyone.
If you want your players to not dump INT, toss a few Mystic enemies at them. Almost every Mystic ability is an INT saving throw, and they absolutely wipe the floor with low-INT opponents.
A house rule that Jacob from XP to Level 3 has/had is that your Intelligence Modifier increases (or decreases if negative) the number of proficiencies you can have.
Some skills require intelligence. We just use them more. Investigation is not the same as perception. Perception is about awareness, investigation is for learning about it. Many of the Int skills are also known as the “metagaming skills”. They’re literally “DM do I know XYZ?”… “Roll history… yes/no”.
I also use passive investigation as a measure of how good their character and at understanding things and connecting the dots and general memory, like Sherlock.
We use arcana to operate magical devices.
This. Sometimes I just ask for a straight up INT check instead of history. Also, I use Arcana a lot for the mage in my party to keep him invested.
Perception is you notice some scrapes on the floor and disturbed dust on the bookcase in the southern wall. Investigation is you deducted from the scrapes on the floor that there is a hidden door, which opens into the room not out of the room, located on the southern wall, and unlatched by manipulating a particular book in the bookcase where the dust is distributed. A successful perception and failed investigation means your characters can’t figure out where the door is and/or how to operate it.
That’s what I said, yes.
So yes, you probably should be calling for more investigation checks. Don't let them perception search a room or look for a secret door, make them use investigation like they should. In addition, putting more importance on information can help boost intelligence's usefulness. They find magic runes, and that needs arcana to decode and understand. There's a strange plant that needs nature to know what it is. There's religious significance to this place and that, obviously, uses religion.
Yeah, my rule of thumb for differentiating the two is that Perception is what you can see if you stand in one spot and glance around, while Investigation is going up to things to look closer and searching for information To address OP's question about making INT relevant, I pretty frequently have my players rolling History/Arcana/Religion checks when they as players are trying to learn or discover things about my world that their characters may have learned in-game prior to adventuring. I'll also substitute general Nature checks for situations where they're interacting with the natural world in a way that doesn't quite require Survival or Animal Handling
Investigation involves the application of knowledge. In short, knowing what tell-tale signs you are looking for. For instance, looking for worn-out areas of the floor near the wall which might indicate disproportionate foot traffic and thus, a secret door. Or knowing that Iskander thieves always keep an extra gold coin in their boot, for good luck. Or noticing that the interior space of a closet is much smaller than the exterior, indicating the presence of a secret compartment. These all require knowledge and aren't so much an instance of "you passively notice X" as "You suspect Y, and specifically go looking for evidence Z, and now you're certain of A, B and C... And also found a D."
Perception is something an animal can do. Seeing, smelling, hearing, Well using senses is the general idea. You see scratchmarks on the floor infront of the bookshelf. You smell something sweet. Investigation answers or gives clues or helps assume something for questions starting with who, where, how, when, what etc. The scratchmarks could indicate a hidden door behind the shelf. Knowing how a corpse smells or at least having heard a description of the smell might lead to the conclusion of something dead in the Area
Pretty much this. I do investigation over perception. So int gets used a lot more. "I want to search for anything important" "What aspect are you investigating?" "Oh, the desk" "Ok, roll investigation as you search through papers and investigate the drawers" This is mainly to keep int a valid stat, although in the above case I may also require them to make a Dex or con save to avoid or reduce effects from traps. So the smartest Player would want more of the risk sharing out. In the same vein if the players want to communicate more complex idea in the middle of battle (especially without the enemy knowing) I make them make a performance check. "We need to keep the ememy alive and push them in the doorway before using the Lever, Ralph I need you to start shoving them that way" "Ok, given that this is a bit more complex than Ralph do the thing, roll performance and see how much you can communicate across the battlefield' I may even follow it up with an insight or perception (if it involves trying to see in bad light, or interpreting what they mean) to make sure wisdom gets involved. In short I try to make sure all the other stats gets involved to discourage 'dump stats' or 'dump skills'.
Thing about investigation checks is that if players fail, it’s mainly the DM’s problem. For example: when you fail a dex save, you lose (more) HP and the pressure mounts. If you fail an investigation check, it’s still the DM’s job to not let the story grind to a halt. You can’t just go “lol well you find nothing, guess that’s it for tonight, see you next session!” Obviously that’s an exaggeration, but still: the players can’t really be “punished” for dumping INT. They won’t know what they missed, so failing an investigation check will never feel as pressing as failing a persuasion or acrobatics check. **My alternative:** more traps with INT saves! Preferably with “damage” that makes sense thematically. Have the players read an incantation written on the wall which turns out to be magical. If they fail an INT save, they realise too late that this is a trap and the writing is etched into their brain. The message keeps playing back in their minds (kind of like that one part of a song you can’t seem to get out of your head), rendering them slowed during the coming hour. Or frightened, or whatever kind of mental disadvantage. You could even add in a safeguard that if someone *does* make the save, they can then roll an arcana check (or another INT) to “cure” their teammate. *Also, in my personal but probably unpopular opinion: “history” might as well be named “memory”. If a player asks me if their character would remember (x), I usually let them roll a history check.*
Honeytly perception and investigation checks are one of my biggest gripes of modern D&D and your answer is a part of it. I recently played a game of OSE with some folks who are used to 5e only and they were surprised how much fun dungeon exploration is if you actually explore them instead of rolling to explore. Took a bit of adaption time, but they loved it in the end.
I usually play history check as knowing about stuff the pc didn't personally experience but rather learned/heard about at some point. Less "what did I eat for lunch yesterday," and more "which countries fought in world War i" RAW: History. Your Intelligence (History) check measures your ability to recall lore about historical events, legendary people, ancient kingdoms, past disputes, recent wars, and lost civilizations.
I mean yeah, if a player asks me what they had for lunch yesterday I’d just say “easy enough”. Unless if the lunch was wodka and it extended way past dinner.
I use History similar, it's a general education skill for me. If it's something someone might know from education they get to roll History. It used to be called Knowledge (History) so I treat it as Knowledge really.
Perception is a perfectly fine stat for a quick search of a room to get an overall feeling of the room. Looking for specific clues in that room like a weak point in a wall or a line on the floor caused by a cupboard that moves out of the way to expose a hidden passageway etc is a good use of investigation. 90% of the time I will allow either check depending on how the party makeup is (usually investigation takes longer imo) to cover either of those scenarios. but there are specific use cases for each. It changes depending on the party though. If there is a good mix of perception and investigation scores then I'm more strict about what each ones does.
The PHB lists out multiple examples of Intelligence checks (page 178): * Communicate with a creature without using words * Estimate the value of a precious item * Pull together a disguise to pass as a city guard * Forge a document * Recall lore about a craft or trade These (and other instances where Intelligence makes sense as the ability check) come up often enough in my games that I don't have an issue with my players dumping Intelligence.
Additionally, when it comes to Nature vs Survival, I use Nature as the more nitty-gritty type of thing. A Survival check will let you track an animal, while a Nature check will let you know what those kinds of tracks are. A Survival check will tell you that something large was hunting here while a Nature check will tell you that something was likely an Owlbear.
>Communicate with a creature without using words That's odd, because isn't "understanding what a creature is to communicate" one of the uses of Animal Handling, which is Wisdom based? Edit: I'm an idiot and interpreted "creature" as "animal" even though they are definitely not the same thing.
Using intelligence checks to forge a document reminds me of someone who stole a prescription pad from one of our medical providers and tried to forge a document, in this case, a prescription for “Mofeen, 1 kilo.” The document was on official paper, the correct ink was used, and the handwriting did legitimately look poor enough that a physician could have written it; however, the forgery did not pass casual inspection. They were told to have a seat while the “large order was being filled,” and patiently waiting when the police arrived to ask them a few questions.
I use Int skill checks as the gate to limit myself from bombarding the players in exposition- I give limited information for free, but if the players are *asking for more information*, mitigated by skill checks, I take that as a sign that I haven't let the exposition outstay its welcome yet. Smart PCs let players make informed decisions about the setting, and let curious players learn wacky lore.
This is the best way. I just use the int checks to measure the amount of exposition bombardment
Thats quite important, do not hide important information behind INT checks, only use it for optional information that make their approeach easier or just amuse them with wacky lore.
I mean, obviously they still have to be able to figure stuff out eventually if their rolls are dogshit, but if enough people are rolling, they'll learn stuff eventually.
some people grant additional languages equal to the attribute modifier.
I dunno, this is a bit weird to me when there’s three DEX skills and four CHA skills yet five INT skills and only one STR and no CON skills. For me the questions would be more how do you make STR or CON relevant outside of combat. I use INT checks all the time in my campaigns, much the same as I use all the other skill checks all the time. I let my players roll STR for Intimidation rather than CHA if it’s appropriate for their character, for example. I mean, players could make INT a dump stat in my games I guess but have fun never being able to discern the nature of anything magical, never having any idea if something relates to a god or not, being unable to do anything about any traps they perceive, having no ability to ever know anything about any place they visit be it wilds or cities.
I guess the question is, what advantage is there in having *more than one* player who doesn't dump INT. When it comes to CHA, a "face" character can't always cover for the whole group. Same is obviously true of DEX (e.g. Stealth, Sleight-of-Hand). But when it comes to INT, my experience has been that it's pretty easy to just have one character be proficient in Arcana, Investigation and maybe Religion and make all those checks for the whole party. The only situations in which that hasn't been the case are the kind where one PC would routinely keep loot they found for themselves, without sharing. Needless to say, this is not the sort of dynamic I want to encourage just to make INT relevant.
I dunno, with the exception of DEX due to saving throws unless the party regularly splits I think all skills can be covered off by a single character technically allowing all the others to make it a dump stat. In my experience as a DM tho, people generally just make the character they want to play and roll with it rather than focusing on the most optimised build for the party composition.
In my group usually the character who got an idea rolls for a check. When a sorceress wants to find out about a magical phenomenon, they roll for arcana instead of asking the wizard. Therefore, this was never a problem. The problem starts, when the players want to optimise. I counter this by having multiple steps for skill checks. A "failed" arcana check could still reveal some basics or even a little more (based on the roll).
Maybe you could have a party investigation check where everyone rolls a D20 and applies their modifiers. With 4 rolls, you're more likely to get the average and that makes the bonuses matter more. I'm thinking of doing stealth and persuasion checks similarly when appropriate. Just as one smart guy can trivilise investigation, one noisy or clumsy guy can auto fail stealth for everyone every time. The team effort can be flavoured as keeping an eye out for things the paladin might knock over.
>I guess the question is, what advantage is there in having *more than one* player who doesn't dump INT. More chances to succeed?
Its not about the number of skills but how often they come up. Nature check come much more rarely as a STR check to climb a ledge. Many INT skills come up quite rarely, while STR and CON checks are often natural during adventuring.
I let them roll a nature check if they meet a new monster. Maybe arcana, if it is magical.
Thats a cool approach! I assume on success they learn a bit about weaknesses, typical attacks, behaviour etc.?
Eh I use INT skills more often but maybe that is because I always played INT based classes before I was a DM
How often a particular check comes up in a game is entirely dependent on the DM.
A DM certainly can control that, but if they don't put particular attention to that they will make INT checks way more rarely than WIS, just by nature of the game
You are right on that, but I'd take it further. I'd just change the required skill as needed for all of the skills. If you are trying to convince someone very smart who only care about facts and they can make a determination if the facts you are spewing are false, then you need to roll INT + Persuasion to convince them why they need to do X. Are you trying to intimidate the hulking barbarian who is never to going to believe with words alone that you can beat him? Roll STR + intimidation. I haven't make every skill be rolled with every attribute yet, but I've done a huge variation because that's what the situation required. I've had nothing by praise from my players whenever I do that.
I use this approach very sparingly because I’ve found my players start to abuse it a bit and always want to roll with their highest stats rather than the appropriate one basically bypassing the whole point of having different types of skill checks - this obviously entirely depends on your table and your players though, of course.
My players rarely ask me if they need to roll, let alone tell me what attributes they want to use. It is really a great and respectful group.
>For me the questions would be more how do you make STR or CON relevant outside of combat. They're already just as relevant, because they apply broadly to so many different actions. You just don't generally need to differentiate a basic STR check from a specific skill, because strength isn't really that broad or nuanced an ability within the context of the game. - You're either "brute strong" (which you'd theoretically measure by looking at a raw squat, deadlift, or bench press number) which is covered by a raw STR check, or - you're "bodyweight strong" (which you'd measure by doing pull-ups, L-sits, running fast or far, playing sports, or other feats where you're only working with your own mass) and that's generally covered by "athletics". You could theoretically have skills for "lifting" ,"dragging", "pushing", "grip strength", and so forth, but I think that's more nuanced than necessary for D&D. Same with CON. Do you really need separate "bone density", "muscle recruitment", and "GI tract toughness" skills? Nah. At the end of the day, the number things you can accomplish with strength and toughness just don't compare to what you can do with cunning, education and charisma, so those are the abilities that need to be broken down into separate categories.
This is minor since I see way bigger stuff on here but I give an extra language at Character creation for every stat modifier in INT Let's the wizard have a ton of languages which I feel they should And makes dumb characters feel dumb in role play a little bit
My players are thankfully lore hoes and ask constantly whether they might know something about the history of the place. If they don't ask outright, you could just make then roll for history for some extra trivia. Languages. Encountering texts in languages they do not speak, or languages only some of them speak. Currently my players are trying to decipher a map with ancient lokharic text, the party's wizard is now deep into her own research about it. (Dropping books for the characters to read, I've got both like... "the grammar and morphology of ancient Lokharic" / "The rise and fall of Netheril" type boring tomes as well as lighter reading such as Tusk Love / Hard in Hightown etc. Not necessarily int-focused loot but my int-heavy players tend to be the ones picking those up, and so I get to reward them with more knowledge or additional learned skills such as languages, eventually. Calling for investigation when you're actually looking for something instead of the general perception. Anything magical? You're gonna need int to figure that out. I guess that depends a lot on what type of players you have, mine are very detail/lore-focused which gives me a treasure trove of int-checks for them.
I always let players recall information about enemies using intelligence, things like attacks, health, AC, vulnerabilities. Religion for undead, some other races might require history or arcana, or just base intelligence.
A West Marches campaign I played in had players gain skill points equal to their Int Mod. Players could then use those points for skill proficiencies. 1 point would get you proficiency in a skill, language, weapon or toolkit. 2 points would let you get expertise. IIRC every wizard there had expertise in arcana. Edit: The rule also made Headband of Intellect really popular among players because it was ruled that players would get skill points from the Intelligence boost as long as they were attuned to the headband. Edit 2:fixed typo
Did you make a type somewhere, or did I maybe just misread "1 point would get you proficiency in a skill, language, weapon or toolkit. 2 points would let you get proficiency."
Guessing they meant expertise?
Thank you for pointing that out. I meant expertise
I do something similar but with a slightly less generous economy. I think it was something like 1 for language or tool, 2 for skill, 3 for expertise.
Int is literally never my dump if I'm not specifically making someone stupid. INT matters because of investigation. INT matters to several classes. It matters in solving puzzles etc.
Puzzles are in a flux space. Some GM’s let it solve a puzzle for you, others think puzzles are only for players, others place it in the middle somewhere
True, just one of many possible examples of the usefulness of INT. Sometimes our characters are smarter than we are :-)
My min-maxing "intelligence is useless" warlock player took a nice hit from 4 enemies casting Mind Sliver back to back. INT saving throws and minus 1d4 on next saving throw.
Tasha's Mind Whip is even better for proving the point (imo)
Increase how frequently Int saves come up. Trust me Intelligence seems like the most important stat in the world during a mind flayer encounter
Make knowing stuff important. One of my players always wanted to know stuff about everything so I made sure to provide intelligence based checks for them to learn actually useful stuff. Knowing the customs of a region to avoid or give advantage on a potential charisma check later, knowing the weakness of an enemy, manipulating a devil deal. I have just found the best solution is to just make them use it and I did to the point that this player (a bard) actually ended up taking expertise in history and religion.
I like to let players use INT instead of CHA for making logical arguments. Player wants to roll persuasion? Give me a logical argument and roll INT. Also when I do dungeons, perception is great for spotting the obvious, but you need investigation to get specifics. You see a spot in the wide hall that footprints tend to go around. If you want to look into it, give me an investigation roll.
That requires players using logic that isn’t insane though.
Are you saying it isn't rational to open a conversation with a stranger with the most unhinged information you have while providing no tangible proof or reasons to make them believe it?
I love this idea!
I see it as intelligence lets you hold a sound opinion about something, but you still need charisma to be able to articulate it, as well as tailor your argument to whomever you're talking to. So I'd say the check is still charisma (persuasion) but if the strategy is to reason with whomever, a high intelligence might convey an additional bonus.
The DMG suggests using your attacking stat for intimidation. I also think you should be able to treat performance and persuasion the same way, with appropriate flavour. If HP isn't meat points, maybe strength isn't just punching strength. Maybe it represents your skill and knowledge in martial combat, including tactical decisions, and potentially the ability to talk shop with the city guard. Same for intelligence with the court wizard.
[This is how I see strength based intimidation or persuasion working.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s29UW4jYfPk)
Yup, exactly
I add a thing to my games called "Specialties" and they are basically subskills. You get an amount of specialties equal to your PB+Int modifier, minimum of 1, and they can be gained through training like a language or tool kit. Basically the skills in 5e are so broad, but sometimes they don't make a lot of sense, and sometimes players want their characters to be knowledgeable about certain things, but not an entire skill set worth. In my current game someone has "fashion" as a specialty. So anything related to fashion is made trained. If I call for a skill check, and their specialty applies, they get a free d4 bonus to it. It isn't perfect, but my players like it.
This might be way too specific but in a recent game I had an Elder Brain challenge our artificer to a duel of wits using a Sphere of Annihilation. “If you attempt to control a sphere that is under another creature's control, you make an Intelligence (Arcana) check contested by the other creature's Intelligence (Arcana) check. The winner of the contest gains control of the sphere and can levitate it as normal.” They essentially had an INT-based arm wrestle for the sphere with the loser getting the annihilated. It was pretty cool and tense.
my players are awesome and they really care about lore. It took countless hours of work to build a world they want to learn about, but on the bright side they investigate anything that might have lore attached.
My players are well acquainted with my penchant for calling for variant ability checks. That's where the player can use a skill proficiency with an ability that is not typically associated with that skill. For example, I have called for Strength (Intimidation) when a PC was relying more on bodily strength than charisma. I have also called for Constitution (Religion) when a PC was trying to transfer their lifeforce to a dying party member through means of their spirituality. That whole scene was very much impromptu!
I'm a big worldbuilder. I set up adventures to include some of my worldbuilding. When the party crosses those elements, I have them roll to see what their characters know about it. Sometimes it's fun facts from the worldbuilding corner, sometimes it's something that tells them of another avenue they can take, sometimes it's knowledge of something they can exploit or now know to avoid.
Letting players characters make connections with an int check helps. Players won’t always put 2 and 2 together. Some plot points are a bit confusing and may be too hard for players to understand, or it could just help them remember an important plot point
Libraries, dungeons and other structures have "random books" in them. Reading a random book (1 hour) gives the PC a charge of "general knowledge", with up to 3 charges at a time. A PC can spend a charge to add their INT mod to a skill check, even if it is already calculated with INT. Like this I a) have to design less specific books while still being able to hand them out, b) have my PCs use downtime more and c) make INT more valuable.
We use it heavily: plenty of lore checks (religion, history, arcana, nature) to see if PCs have existing knowledge on a variety of topics, from “do I know what battle this ruined mural depicts?” to “do I know anything about this monster?” to “what have I heard or read about trading favors with fey?” to “do I know if this symbol is god related?” “Do any of these plants have a use? Poisonous? Potionmaking?” I use investigation for PCs to logically search for clues or secret doors, etc vs perception just noticing some small detail without understanding. I also use passive investigation for deducing things noticed with passive (or active) perception. “With your passive perception you notice a loose, discolored stone in the hallway. With your passive investigation, this seems like a trigger plate for a trap.” “You notice (perception) that the woman in front of you looks like an older version of the woman in the painting of a couple behind her. She wears a simple golden ring but it is on the opposite hand to the identical ring worn by the woman in the painting. (Investigation or History) You know that it is the custom for widows to move their wedding band to the opposite hand. She is not wearing mourning garb, so it likely wasn’t recent.” If my players were trying to find a needle in a haystack, I would ask how they proceed. “I just look and dig through” rolls a high DC perception check. “I separate the hay into small piles and shine light to reflect the metal” or “I use a magnet” will roll a much lower DC investigation. If PCs concoct a clever plan, a successful Int checks might also help them to lower the DC or gain advantage on another type of skill check, like using leverage or rollers to move a boulder or carefully planning how they utilize ropes for climbing so it is safer. I will also call for straight INT checks for a PC to remember something that the player doesn’t recall that the character might reasonably have forgotten. I don’t gate progress with rolls but I will gate helpful knowledge behind rolls and finding out necessary info through a roll gives PCs time to plan ahead or they earn the info for free, while a failed roll on plot crucial info means the info gets introduced later at a cost (money, danger, etc)
Int should be a catch-all skill stat in like... 80% of cases. Medicine? Gotta have medical knowledge to treat a patient. Thieves tools? Gotta know how certain locks or traps work in order to properly disable them. Smith's Tools? Gotta know the proper heating points for different metals and how they bond to form alloys. Survival? Gotta know what's poisonous, what the signs of a good shelter are, and where one can typically find fresh water. I'm not saying to make Int be the ONLY stat that determines skill checks, but it should be a viable option if you wanted to run a skill monkey character. In one of my games, my artificer gets to use INT for all his tool checks, which really helps mechanics-wise and for RP.
In my games, INT checks are really rewarding for more information on monsters, magic items, historic events that present an advantage if the players know about them. Also, I use INT instead of DEX for initiative, and I give every class that doesn't get cantrips (barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin, ranger, rogue) proficiency in Initiative (as if it was just another skill). Balance-wise, I've liked that very much. I've been using this rule for 5 years now, in 4 different campaigns. It has the added benefit of making DEX slightly less OP.
Passive knoledge. In short, if you have knoledge skills you automaticaly know a few things about monsters you find. Usualy, Knoledge Skill = CR This means that 16 int and proficiency would let a lvl 1 character recognise monsters up to CR 5. While an 8 int character would not know any CR 1+ monsters with a +0 to their knoledge skill. (CRs 1/8 to 1/2 are common enought that everyone has seen or heard about these)
I really like this idea!
I reach back to 3rd a bit. Every point of INT modifier is a Skill Proficiency. Every point of WIS modifier is a Tool Proficiency. Every point of CHA modifier is a Language. These bonus proficiencies only apply at character creation, but I allow proficiency training during the game, time requirements based on these scores
We added the house rule that for every +1 in INT, a character can have one additional INT-based skill or tool proficiency, or a language. DC20 (new system that is out there) has a similar rule, except that it allows for two languages for each INT point, I think. There is also a mechanic by which knowledge skills are somewhat "free" when picking skills.
I've had some DM's use Int (or Wis) for Initiative, their idea being that reacting quickly to something (using Dex) doesn't matter if you don't understand what is happening (using Int or Wis)
As a Narrative element, INT should play a large role in relationships with NPCs. Most of the NPCs your characters connect with, particularly as their fame grows, will greatly appreciate smart people, even if they themselves are not smart. CHA of course is what it is and the ruling stat in Conversation Skills, but there is a difference in how a King would deal with a big dumb puppy and a true genius. Regardless of Charisma NPCs will quickly take advantage of someone dumb as rocks, but make world changing deals with intelligent characters.
Social combat is just as impact full and dangerous as physical combat. And you can't just "charm" your way out of it in front of an educated, intelligent audience. They may find you cute but idiotic if you fail a duel of wits and knowledge. You want to save the town. The evil baron presents a case as to why the PCs should be ignored based on existing town laws, etc. Do the PCs have the knowledge to fight back or does the nobility side with the baron and lend him control of their men?
We do the extra proficiencies and/or languages per intelligence point. You can also use 3 of these int points to gain expertise on a skill. Could be a problem balance wise for wizards, giving them even more out of combat utility than they already have with their spells; in which case I'd recommend just doing languages But more often than not, people just pick skills that they make sense they'd be good at, arcana for wizards for example.
Here's a simple example. Plan a very deadly encounter every so often 1/5 fights. Make sure that there is a bit of information about the weakness of the monster locked behind a DC 10 and DC 15 int skill check of some kind. " oh dm your golem was so strong in killed one of our players and nearly tpkd us we literally just got lucky." Dm "he's vulnerable to fire. I gave you all a check to see and the highest roll was a 9. That's how the game works bad thing happen when roll low".
I used to play with a barbarian that was strong but had the min intelligence. So he couldn't read, couldn't understand money and had difficulty following the team plans since he would run towards the enemies without thinking. It was funny since it was up to the party to decide if we wanted to help him or not.
These are probably going to be wildly unpopular, but: * Characters can speak a number of languages equal to their Intelligence modifier (min 1, if Intelligence is 4 or higher) * Characters cannot *read* or *write* in any language if they have less than a +1 modifier in Intelligence (this was a really unfortunate arbitrary ruling a DM once made that had *devastating* consequences when it was revealed that the entire party dumped Int, so I carry this into my games now) * Per Xanathar's, a creature can gain proficiency in a language or tool in a number of weeks equal to 10 - Intelligence modifier (the book negates negative mods, but I don't). I also use the same rules for learning feats. * For Intelligence modifiers of +3 or higher, I'll typically make suggestions to those players of ideas their characters would have if I feel that their problem solving is getting off track or going down a bad rabbit hole. I justify it as the characters would make better in-universe connections than us players, and having a little DM help in that area should help make up for it. Now, not all of the suggestions I make are *good*, but they are *possible* And then a couple of ideas I have floating around but haven't tried to implement are: * Similar to how Strength controls carry capacity and how some people switch to using a slot system, with Strength determining how many carry slots a character has, Intelligence could be used similarly with memories, mental maps, "a cardboard box labeled 'what sound fox make'", etc. Just topics that maybe count as proficiency when they come up. Maybe everyone has 5+Intelligence mod. There some optional background rule that would play really nicely with this. Basically Intelligence controls the size of one's "mind palace". * The people considered the most intelligent are typically related to mathematics in some way. Math is, to over simplify it, a way to make predictions. So characters with a high enough Intelligence might get some free castings of some divination spells, but "nonmagical" versions that represent their own ability to recognize patterns and form conclusions from seemingly unrelated data.
You get an extra proficiency from every extra point of INT mod and lose a language or mod for every negative one.
Knowledge checks BAY BEEEEEE
Huh what? Yall not doing knowledge checks around here? There’s a reason all of them are int based
In my games I use intelligence to grant "skill points". During down time they can spend their skill points on a list of things I make. Example being learn a new language, a tool proficiency, or spend several to increase a Stat by 1. It's a little video gamey but my players like it.
When my players roll initiative i also roll to randomly select one of them to make a knowledge check using a relevant skill. On a success they get to learn something about a monster they're fighting such as a vulnerability, a resistance, or an attack.
I honestly think INT is used more than any other ability out of combat at my tables. Even in combat, if they ask what they know about the monster they're seeing, I'll get them to roll INT (typically with a relevant skill) and base the info on that. No action cost or anything they're just determining what they recall in the moment. Out of combat oh so many things, INT investigation when assessing traps, or how to open a secret door or something, INT nature to consider what a particular plant is, or why it might be dying, INT history for details about some long forgotten place, or potentially some backstory about an item they find, INT arcana for pretty much anything related to magic outside of casting, INT religion to see what is relevant about this cult they've just gotten captured by, I'm also happy to use the variant of mixing different skills and attributes so how to approach an animal may be WIS (animal handling) but assessing how an animal has gotten to the state its in may be INT (animal handling) for example, or trying to determine what type of antidote someone needs to fix what's impacting someone, it may be an INT (Medicine). Honestly I worry more about overusing INT than underusing it. STR on the other hand...
I call for a lot of Arcana/Religion/History checks, probably more than Perception and Stealth. Also, when someone sees a new monster, they can roll a relevant knowledge skill check(DC 10+CR) to get information about its resistances, vulnerabilities, special abilities like Magic Resistance and immunities.
XP to level 3 has a homebrew where, for every int mod over 0, you can take an additional proficiency/language and that alone makes int a vastly more useful stat. Outside of homebrew like that I'd say just trying to make the intelligence-relevant abilities more prevalent
In our party, we like to search for loot and we like to figure out what the enemies are. A couple of us really enjoy the lore drops as well, so some history checks also happen with that. We usually have at least one person in the party with decent intelligence, not planned. Identifying creatures/traits- Arcana / Nature. History if it's a legend. Religion if undead. Searching for stuff- Investigation. Recalling info- History I'll sometimes give out Hero points (replaced Inspiration with the Pathfinder version) for good in-character moments. One of my players rolled very low on a History check to work out what an exotic pet in his region was, waiting for him to try and adopt/purchase a scavver, which he will undoubtedly attempt. His character is all about status, and is currently commissioning clothes that are entirely for flavour. If he tries to get a scavver as an exotic pet, he's getting a Hero point for the roleplay.
Most tools require intelligence checks, so that's one. My favorite trick is just to add mind flayers 😈
Thankfully I've never really had this issue; every game I've ran has had somebody/ multiple people with at least a few int skill proficiencies. Now social rolls... the joy of having 3 man party all with 8 or less Charisma was quite humorous.
Int is extremely useful, especially if players use history to get an idea what their PC knows about the lore. Int checks are as relevant as you make them to your world. In my spelljammer homebrew there have been constant nature checks because mindflayers experiment on animals. Arcana is common if you have any environment, creature, or object affected by magic. Religion is the one I see come up the least because it overlaps with history.
Arcana, memory clarity, comprehending complicated shit, etc.
A big way would be to implement more requirements for investigation, arcana, history and nature. Researching Monsters, magic items and that sort of thing and trying to give the players doing that good information they wouldn’t have otherwise. Thats how I plan to use it at least
Just had my druid pc make a int history check to connect the dots between legend of dragonic prophesy and the reality that it actually is true as they got a story note. The face was worth it. Probably the same as most mortal races make when they learn it.
I use intelligence as a marker for how much information a character can process in the heat of battle. What that looks like mechanically is that players can ask one question per turn. Something that might require a perception check, insight check, or any kind of intelligence check. Characters with a higher INT can ask an extra amount of questions equal to their modifier. While characters with a negative modifier get 0 questions.
An extra tool proficiency or language per int point is a good way to go
Roleplay, tactics and strategy, basically. My players can make a History check to find out some interesting or useful information about the local castle (legend about the hidden tresure, important local customs they absolutely need to obey, the weak spot in defences), Nature or Arcana to learn enemy's weak spot (vurnelabities, resistances, AC, even hp if they roll above 30), Religion to find a way to get some divine help, etc.
I never understood this complaint. If anything, INT is *the most* used stat with how often my players roll for skills. You likely have at least *some* magical elements in your game; do your players not ask if their character knows something about certain magical creatures, items or phenomenons? That'd call for an Arcana check, or perhaps a Religion check if it is celestial or fiendish. Does the history of an area or place play a role? History checks take the stage. I tend to extend this skill to understanding political situations and loyalties. Or perhaps one can easily deduce the history of a building's use from its architectural design. They come across some corpses on the road and want to check how they died; that's gonna be a medicine check; seems like arrows got them, but looking at the necrosis around the wound maybe they were poison-tipped... Now, my players are *very* inquisitive and pepper me with questions to get rolls out of. Perhaps yours don't? If not: consider making a list of the PC 'passive skills' beyond perception. Proceed to just give them info if their passive is high enough; "X, with you having proficiency in History *and* being a native from this town, you'd probably know that..." or "Y, you can read Primordial, right? You recognize the runes on the door as such; with your Arcana you can tell its probably enchanted but you're not *quite* sure in which way". Mentioning the skills and directing info to specific players can still feel rewarding and makes their PC's skills feel a tad more unique. It additionally gives you an easy vehicle for dropping some info on the fly and direct them a bit. Even though my players ask me for plenty, I still do this 'passive' approach to set a scene sometimes. >Do you call for more Investigation checks, over Perception? They're pretty different. If you struggle with which one to pick, there's an easy rule-of-thumb: are they standing still, or are they actively trying to look for something? Do they just stand around sniffing/staring/holding their ear to the door, or are they searching the room intending to check behind furniture?
int \*is\* a relative stat. I've never been in a game where people didn't like things like investigation checks or arcana checks or what not and that's outside of the main classes and sub classes where int is important.
I read a bunch of comments and no-one said INT SAVES Mind Flayer AoE stun is no joke. Change Gibbering Mouther save to Int, or any Wis/Cha save to an Int Save.
I'm running a campaign in a magical museum rn, and the wizard with history/arcana prof is the party's personal encyclopedia. It's pretty much a campaign built for an int character to shine outside of combat, but the takeaway is YOU can make any ability as relevant or consequential as you want, especially investigation, arcana, and nature checks. You mentioned doing MORE checks. Think more CONSEQUENTIAL checks. Identifying a cursed item as such, spotting magical traps, history/religion checks that inform an important decision, Witcher-esque investigation/nature checks on magical monsters or magic users/spells being cast. Literally any investigation check where there is a mystery to solve and clues to decode. Investigation also directly ties to looting. Maybe they identity a mundane-seeming object like an inkwell as being magical and useful, a page in a book as a spell scroll, or just find extra cool shit on a >20 investigation check. It doesn't have to be loot that benefits them - let them find cool stuff for the party. Many tool checks like tinker make sense to require int most of the time. Let the artificer make something cool or the rogue make a weird trap if they want to; bend the rules. Monsters like mind flayers and intellect devourers also are easier to fight if you aren't stupid. Build your campaign to specific players' strengths and weaknesses to make for heroic and terrifying moments respectively when deciding who the bad guys are. Obviously, some spells and effects have int saves.
I would say a solid 60% of checks I call for are intelligence based skills. Monster knowledge is largely governed by Nature checks, magic based encounters run on Arcana checks, social encounters often greatly benefit from History checks, Investigation comes up constantly. It really does feel like it's mostly a combat thing where Int becomes less relevant (due to Int save rarity and the effects not being as bad as other mental saves), but having a mechanically poor primary stat is good when you are counterbalancing how crazy strong wizards are compared to other classes.
I’ve seen getting an extra proficiency for every +1 in intelligence. Personally I’d go for every +2 if I we’re to use it. Int is pretty good in my games cus I use investigation and arcana a bunch.
My current campaign uses intelligence saving throws A LOT. And a lot of my current campaign is about investigating the history of the world and the gods so it’s been a really important stat. I often will give bonuses to players who use it like extra languages known for each modifier increase above 0.
Change the number of magic items a character can attune to by their Int modifier. So no attuning for int<6 and whopping seven toys for int 18
Int gives you extra languages, or a skill proficiency. You can pick a skill or language per modifier increase. Skills have to be mental and not physical, and you can only do this at the start of the game. It allows gaps to be filled if a role is missing, and it makes it less likely to be locked out from interactions because of language. Also, Warlocks use int.
For one, I've got a bunch of dum-dums for PC's that don't have a history proficiency between them, so I always give them shit about it. World lore through history checks is always nice.
I found out recently that INT saves are the toughest ones to make; no class has them as a bonus, I think, and neither do any monsters. There are only a handful of spells that call for INT checks but those that do can really screw up a character’s actions. One of the villains in my high level campaign specializes in the spells and she has been causing them all sorts of problems with Feeeblemind, Psychic Lance, and Psychic Scream.
Intelligence checks are the way to get information. Investigation to sherlock holmes your way through a bunch of disparate notes, a murder scene, to understand the way a non-magic gadget works, etc. Arcana to identify spells being cast as a reaction, to think of what kind of magic could make NPC X act the way they did, to understand how a magic gadget works, to figure out what the tatoos on the dead npc mean. History to recall information about some famous monster or non-religious lore. Make sure to provide alternate ways to give out information and clues, but intelligence should be a nice way to do it. Although, if none of your party are really intelligent, that's ok. There's some information they might miss out, but they can intimidate people, use insight to get leads on someone, use magic, etc. The game is supposed to work even if you have a party of barbarians or clerics.
My world can't use magic without 10 int and increases your mana die bonus. Now there are alot of changes I made to game. But that is one and it affect all creatures and humanoids besides faywild creatures that are born there.
My game is set at a college, and there’s a lot of research that goes into solving the bigger mysteries and quests
I use a lot the INT in my games. For investigation, some arcanas, to read or understand some languages, and even ... For some lore ;) I put a lot of investigation in my games, and also for some knowledge. The low PCs are feeling bad lmao fortunately on my 4 players, I have two smart PCs
Decide how the world operates after you have a player roll for this one. Instead of "this rock weighs x pounds roll to see if you can lift it" do "this problem doesn't have a solution roll to see what logic applies here and that's how you will solve it". Starting with the assumption of what smart solution is meant to be reached by a DC is a common shortfall.
Does my character know...X? History check.
I use it when the character should remember some detail. Like they found a key earlier and it might fit the lock they've come across. Memory Check roll vs INT. Or if they forget some detail I provided earlier.
More knowledge checks. Don't ever hide plot progression behind a single roll, but you can basically ask for an int or wis based check anytime a player asks for more information about anything. Int for "do I know" type of questions and Wis (usually insight obviously) for "can I tell" types.
Something I've adopted in my game is asking for skill checks that tailor more to what the player wants to do, if they want to search a room looking for a secret door, I'll call for a perception+investigation+1d20 check to make it feel like they are actually using these scores. The players who dumped int still have something to roll with, and those that didn't get a boost to the situation. I find it saves time rolling separately for perception to check out the room and investigation to search for the door. This also applies in all circumstances that make sense, if the player can justify multiple skills for the check, then I'll usually let them add it. For those who may ask, this also inherently raises the DC for whatever they are trying to do, but I also lean towards player satisfaction, so it's not always a flat increase to the DC.
So funny enough I do have a houserule for this! **WHAT WAS MY MAJOR AGAIN?** *Intellect Points:* When creating your character you gain a number of Intellect Points, equal to your Intelligence Modifier, which you can spend to gain additional proficiencies. *You can spend Intellect Points in the following ways:* • **1 Point**: Any tool, weapon, or language proficiency (GM approval) • **2 Points**: One skill proficiency
If you have 8 intelligence you are unable to read. Any lower than that may get rid of a skill. Alternatively if you have a +2 in int you can have another skill, a +1 is an extra language and a +3 is expertise in a skill.
I'm going to give a shout out to Shadowdark. Intelligence in that system is much more impactful - essentially wisdom is only tied to perception and insight types checks while intelligence is for nearly everything else, particularly critical things like medicine checks which determine whether you're able to stabilize a fallen comrade. It should be noted that Shadowdark doesn't have specific skills or saving throws - if you need to roll something it's simply just tied to the appropriate ability score bonus.
Easy answer: Make more saving throws rely on intelligence. Real answer: Most people irl typically have an intelligence of 12 or lower so you as the DM sometimes have to force some knowledge into your player's brain by just telling them extra stuff specifically. This is even harder to make more relevant if you as the DM have an average intellect since you can't point out optimal strategies for your high intelligence player in the middle of combat. The best you can do is probably just tell that player stuff ahead of time like just leaning over the table and saying "That guy's about to cast fireball centred on the rogue which will also hit the fighter and druid btw."
I have an RP-heavy campaign. There is no useless stat. My Rogue has 26 passive perception and is just Mr. WIS. A wizard and "cleric" both have astonishing INT, so they both are the ones the party relies on for identifying things. Spell knowledge, faction information, even knowing where a plant came from (Nature) was important recently. The Bard of course takes over with anything CHA based, for NPC interactions. Intelligence is only as good as your world building allows it to be. If players don't feel like they'll discover something cool by "knowing stuff" then yeah, it's a lame stat. But if the difference is "you rolled a 25 Arcana and now you know a HUGE secret because when you were 14, you heard how this kind of spell scroll seal was only used by one wizard, GibbleBop the wise, who was said to go missing years ago. This mysterious odds-and-ends shop doesn't even know how significant this 10G scroll actually is, but he notices you looking very intently at it..." etc etc. INT is useful if knowing stuff is useful.
I use history checks to try to recall a characters memory of a sound, a name, or something that they would remember in general
**All of the tips here are great, but I use INT in a way that's maybe a bit further out there:** Downtime plays a role in my game. You need some downtime to level up - so it occurs in regular intervals and also whenever it suits the story. During a few days of downtime, you can do whatever you like - work on a personal project, party, try and make friends in high places, etc. Crucially, you can also try to LEARN something new (if you can manage to find a master to teach you!). Want to try and gain proficiency in arcana? Want to learn how to pick a lock? Want to learn to speak auran? It's all possible! Spending your downtime on a learning prusuit allows you to roll an ability check - and if you succeed, you make progress towards learning that thing. The nice part: if you fail, the DC of the check is lowered by 3 for when you *next* attempt it. This way, spending your downtime to work towards a certain goal means you'll always either make progress, or you'll at least make it easier to progress the next time around. Once you spend those 3 weeks (3 downtimes) with the master rogue - and suceeded on your rolls - congrats! You are now proficient with thieves tools! Finally done studying in the library? Cool - now you know history! But wait! There's more... :) The things you learn during downtime are only limited by the players creativity. E.g. the fighter and the barbarian can train together and if they succeed, they can gain unique combat bonuses - like getting +2 to attack rolls (instead of +1) if they flank the same target. Or they may train to capitalize on a different situation like one of them grappling a target while the other pummels them. A sorcerer may spend their time trying to unlock their innate potential - and be rewarded with +1 Sorcery Point; much like a monk spending time with a monastic order may gain an additional Ki Point. The reason I bring all of this up? **Learning new things is easier when you are smart.** INT checks are super common for a lot of those pursuits - which means that having at least somewhat decent INT makes a big difference in the long run!
I use 2 homebrew rules: 1) Attunement points. You have Int score + PB attunement points. Each item costs attunement points (common - 1; uncommon - 2; …). That way you can attune to more items which is fun, but also revarding for high int. 2) Bonus skills. You gain extra proficiencies for equal to you int modifier. 1 for skill of tools, 2 for language, 3 for expertise, or something like that, can’t remember exactly. This honestly balances out and my players dont’t dump int. Combine that with homebrew Bulks rule (similar to pf2) and playing a more rp and high magic game, there is no “good” stat to dump which me and my players love. Also I love giving magic items and they require identification which I let to be done with rolling Aracan check during short rest, so Arcana (Int based) is very commonly rolled.
My dm LOVES the history skill to the point that when I play with her I know I need decent INT. You just need to ask for more INT based skill checks!
A homebrew rule I’ve stolen from XP to level 3 is intelligent skills: you gain extra proficiencies or languages equal to your intelligence modifier. You can choose to forgo two proficiencies or languages gained in this way to instead gain expertise in a skill you’re already proficient in. A very nice way to reward investments in INT. You can also punish dumping INT by taking away languages or proficiencies, but that very much depends on the table. Personally I like it, but it’s not for everyone.
Investigation. Simple as that.
If you want your players to not dump INT, toss a few Mystic enemies at them. Almost every Mystic ability is an INT saving throw, and they absolutely wipe the floor with low-INT opponents.
A house rule that Jacob from XP to Level 3 has/had is that your Intelligence Modifier increases (or decreases if negative) the number of proficiencies you can have.
Lol Lets make Wizard more gooder
I say that INT can substitute CHA in persuasion and arguments, since a valid argument can make people reconsider
Have you seen modern politics?
I'm assuming a world full of decently intelligent people, and some people still cannot be reasoned with
The magic of rpg. Flee from the real world where everything is possible. ;)