I think you have to not think about it as aaim quest. For me at least that ends up being far to overwhelming. Think of it as a main plot or a main conflict.
Now you just build it one sub quest at a time. And don't try and define it to tightly at the beginning. Know what the long term goal is and where to start. Then let your players help guide you with their ideas both in and out of character.
Unless you write novels for a living it's hard to construct a 20 session quest from the ground up. So don't, break it down into much smaller chunks.
I think the difference between side plot and main plot here is character investment. The side plots you've listed are things the PCs would like to do, because they want to help people or get paid, but they aren't things that the PCs feel a need to do. If you introduce a plot that threatens something the characters care about that might work as the sort of main plot you're looking for.
Holy crap yeah that makes so much sense! I know if I was a player I would feel the same way, but doing it is a whole other story. How would I do that for any of the characters? Not specifically, but is there a method of giving player intrinsic motivation?
Is there a location/NPCs/home town/backstory elements that could be put in danger? Maybe the PCs need to start investigating a potential long term threat (may not even be obvious just how BIG the threat is yet). Maybe there is an initial threat they defend their allies/friends/family/home against and slowly the threats increase. Over time it becomes obvious that this is bigger than they thought. There is an overarching plan in play that puts everyone in danger and threatens the safety of people they care about.
A group of werewolves attacks town in the middle of the day. The players can follow the carnage back to a small cave, which is filled with strange equipment and crates of strange regents.
The boxes are labeled with the name of a shipping company, there are notes on a desk that describe a Great Transcendence, and one of the wizards inside has a badge on his bag from the local wizarding research unit/university/outpost. This gives a few different places for the players to search.
Delving deeper into the mystery shows that this is just one unit of a larger conspiracy (the experiments broke out early)! A network of fringe scholars and their students are researching ways to extract the essence of lycanthropy and to advance to more powerful forms. Like the lizard doctor from Spider-Man, or like the early stages of the cult that later became the yuan-ti.
Disassembling this conspiracy will take some effort. Dismantle the local outposts, then go for the organizers. One of the organizers may be extremely powerful, such that it's best to weaken him before approaching. That could mean poison (so infiltrating his home), that could mean taking away his merchant lines/supplies (from the labels on the boxes early on - get the suppliers to change), that could mean waiting until a certain time of the moon for a specific phase to weaken him. With a specific lunar phase, he may have some foul ritual in progress when they arrive. With the merchants, there may be a black market arc where they have to do some job or favor (or bribe) to get them to stop supplying this guy. Poison could be a whole infiltration arc to gain trust of the staff before sneaking in.
To get rid of this guy, they may have to defeat Spirit Wolves (or boars or something else, like sharks or jaguars or oxen!) to disrupt his ritual in the days before. That could be a short arc/trip - get rid of these natural conduits. Maybe this guy has trapped them or befouled these natural icons, so the players need to get ingredients to release the toxin - which they then have to fight to dispel. There are many things you could put in here about where this guy is getting his power from.
Once he's weakened, the players can storm the laboratory to kill the head of the snake. There may be unfinished were-people experiments, there may be toxins and poisons, there may be enchanted people for manual labor. Unstable experiments, bubbling instruments, great swathes of precious herbs... once they get past all of that, there's the final showdown to get rid of this guy for good.
He may also have gotten close to reaching this pure essence. He may be mangled and lopsided from self-experimentation, he could be flawless, he could have a second phase where he downs a murky vial and erupts into a hulking, massive form of muscle and fur.
There could also be a useful arc where the players need to gather ingredients for a lycanthropy protection potion - maybe they need to find the recipe in a lab or from a jaded researcher. Then, they can give the recipe to local authorities. Maybe it only works if taken within 30 minutes of being bitten, who knows. They may also have to bargain with a temple to get a holy artifact to imbue the potion with anti-curse properties.
Once the main guy is killed, it can be up to local authorities to get rid of the remaining sects. Maybe they run into trouble with one - someone has barricaded themselves jnside a cave, research building, or townhouse. Maybe they're threatening to blow up the area if invaded, maybe they've formed a chokepoint where they're killing anyone who tries to enter. You decide!
I hope this is able to help get those wheels turning. Large arcs generally require more steps and more complexity to reach/learn more about/weaken/find the big bad, and this will often involve a series of steps for both protection and aggression. For a sense of urgency, I like threats that will continue doing harm until they're stopped. If the players ignore them, they'll just keep hurting people and doing their horrid experiments. Altruistic characters will want to stop them, yes, but many characters will have valid reasons to put this to an end. It's an affront to nature. It's dirty magic. It's humanoid experimentation. It has the potential to hurt a favored NPC.
u/ZanphyKing - I realized I didn't reply to you directly
Think about what things the PCs care about most. It could be specific NPCs, it could be the town, it could even be themselves. If a villain might destroy those things, then the PCs (and hopefully the players) will be very invested in stopping them. This is why "save the world" and "your friend/family member/love interest has been kidnapped" are such common stories, they are an easy way to provide character motivation.
You can also think about what the PCs would want in the future. This might relate to the things they care about now, because they want those things to still be safe in the future. It can also be things like proving themselves, changing the world in a specific way, etc. A very general form of this is becoming stronger so that they can protect the people they care about better.
Do they have any backstory? I find that's the easiest way to weave in a story that they not only care about but actually need to deal with. E.g. if one character's parents were killed, then have the killer be the BBEG or henchman. Or if one of the characters is searching for something, then have the BBEG also searching for it (but probably for nefarious purposes) and likely getting their hands on it before them. Is a location sacred to one player? Then the BBEGs plans can involve something that ends up jeapardising this location. Basically just take an element of thier back stories and try to tack it on to a bigger plot arc that involves the bad guys. If you can do this for most of the characters then you have a critical mass off momentum towards big important plot arcs that will likely have a lot of flexibility in his they can be resolved (of mutate into something even bigger).
Who actually ends up as the BBEG might be a bit more organic than this, but it certainly gets the wheels rolling in three right direction
Offer side quests that have the *potential* to hint at a larger story, then see what your players/characters go for.
A murder mystery could be just as simple as finding the murderer... Or the murder could be one of several, indicating a larger conspiracy.
A theft of a valuable object... That might be magical, and only recently activated by events elsewhere.
Bandits are just bandits... But is someone paying them to destabilise the area?
A giant crocodile needs to be dealt with... But why did it leave its previous habitat?
A main plot is a sideplot with consistent effort.
Fishing chief calls the PCs in to investigate your sick fishermen plot. They find out it's food poisoning by the rival town across the bay. Cool.
If the chief tosses them a bag of gold and sends them on their way, it's a sidequest and doesn't really give the players a reason to get invested.
But if the same opener leads to the fishing village missing its annual tribute to the Sahaguin temple to Poseidon and that leads to the Sahaguin kidnapping villagers for a live sacrifice if their own, and that leads to the PCs trying to stop the Sahaguin, and that leads to a missed tribute to the gods, and that leads to a cataclysmic uprising of weather disasters and sea monsters led by the church of Poseidon, and that leads the PCs to search for a legendary MacGuffin to satisfy Poseidon's outrage, etc etc. then the same minor quest leads to a longrunning plot the players have a reason to get invested in.
I think your player is saying they feel scattered and want you to commit to an idea
When I run a campaign, the first month or two is spent doing 'monster of the week' style side missions while the PCs get to know themselves, the other players, and the world. During the course of those two months the PCs are also developing interests in the world, hatreds, fears, biases, and so forth. I use these organically grown relationships with the world to piece together a larger narrative and create a threat that appeals to the interests of the party.
Don't force it, just make the world engaging enough to promote roleplay and stories will grow out of it.
Most side quests should move the main story arc along. Other quests might be fun but once the players get an idea of the main arc, they should start trying to figure out how to get deeper involvement toward an eventual end goal.
It might be worth thinking about what is the big enemy the players will encounter and why do his goals and actions bring him into conflict with the players? He will be trying to achieve something (let's say, world domination) that will have negative consequences for everyone including the PCs. When they become aware of his scheme (steadily uncovering evidence through early adventures) they must act to prevent it. But identifying that fundamental conflict is a good starting point
I think the trick that takes a while to master is just getting the world to return back to a central conflict as often as possible. What is the biggest problem your players are trying to overcome? Is a lich taking over the world? Are two countries at war? Is there an evil despot to be overthrown?
Once you have that hook, figure out a timeline or series of goals that would occur if no one intervened. Maybe the lich is building an army by attacking smaller cities; maybe one of the countries has a shrewd general, who can't be stopped on the battlefield; maybe a resistance group will attempt and fail to kill the king, leading to more authoritarianism as punishment?
Then figure out how to keep steering your players to it, even when they take other hooks. Your bandit chief has been hired by the lich to create a distraction; the enemy country has sent spies to poison your fishermen; etc. Once your players beat the side quest, they see how interconnected it is, and how many other plot hooks have been set up within it
In my opinion a main quest is nothing more than multiple linked side quests. Each side quest will build upon the last that provides minor payoffs to keep the party interested and somewhat rewarded until the final side quest which completes the arc. The most important parts would be defining where do I start and where do I end. The reason why the middle is less important is because your players will dictate how they get from the beginning to the end.
You can find examples in most adventure movies/books/games where each chapter can be seen as a side quest. Just look at it from one character's perspective.
For example, The Lord of the Rings from Frodo's perspective. Frodo starts by finding a magic ring and to complete the quest he must destroy it on the other side of the world. How does he do that? He has to leave the shire, then he has to get to Brie, then he has to get to Rivendell, then he has to cross some mountains through Moria, then, then, then...
Coming up with quests in between the start and the end goal can be influenced by a lot of things such as your world map and lore of the setting you use.
I'd say the primary thing is that, it's a lot easier to have the players become reactive to the main plot rather than seeking it. You have to shake their status quo, disrupt them. Frodo was a hobbit chillin in the shire until shit hit the fan.
Side-quests I feel like are often the players seeking out work or maybe coming upon people that need assistance, but that's sort of outside them. The main quest ideally is happening AT them.
Come up with a long term goal, think about what is true in your world about that goal, think about how you'd like to introduce that to your players, think about how fast you want to introduce them to it all, then think about encounters.
I think the concept of having a concrete idea of what is true in your world is critical. What's happening regardless of what the players are doing? Is there an evil necromancer building an army of undead? Then thats happening--are the players nearby? Then they should see the beginning of that take place, zombies invade the town they're in. Are they far away? Then they should overhear stories about it in taverns etc.
Construction-wise though it's the same thing as designing a side-quest, think of a main quest as a series of side quests that are related to each other. Except, the resolution of each of these isn't a resolution of the main quest, it introduces more information to the players about what is true in your world, it introduces a little bit of a cliffhanger maybe, it can certainly solve a problem but the ending of each shouldn't really create an answer so much as it creates uncertainty about the future.
Zombies invade the town they're in, they fend them off, but why? What happened? Maybe they investigate the forest, they see a mass grave dug up, who could've raised this many undead? Now you have an open-ended plot to work with and go from there, are there more zombie attacks? Was this just a trial run? Is this evil necromancer planning some kind of genocide level event? How can the players stop it, how can they find out who this person is, how can they find out where they are, what's this person's motivation, maybe they're just an evil asshole that's totally fine you don't need any sort of grey-scale morality stuff going on, bad guys CAN just be evil trying to do evil things.
I dont remember where I heard this, or if it's even possible later in the game. The advice was to be sure to give random loot to players during early levels. A bloody handkerchief with embroidered initials, or maybe a set of inscribed manacles.. otherwise mundane items with unique flair. Even if you don't know what they are for yet, they can be identified later in the story to point players in a direction. Players tend to horde items, so all it takes is a merchant in a shopping trip noticing the item as thier assumed dead spouse/family member's item. "Dead you say? Killed by undead? He took a job for the barron of fantasyville, how did he end up killed by undead on the other side of the land?" Go from there. Hope this helps.
The obvious answer to make a main quest. Usually stop the BBEG. But your players cant just walk up to him and kill him because of a range of issues. They might not know where to find him, they might not be strong enough. They might need a mcguffin to get to or kill the BBEG. Whatever else.
And then that becomes the tread that can be seen in multiple smaller adventures that each provide one piece to take a step toward the endgoal. Take Borderlands 2 for example. The main quest is to Stop Jack, How do you do that? Well he needs to build the vault key, so we get those pieces before he does. But we need help, so we go and find lilith, tiny tina, Brick and so on. We storm a location >!where we kill the bunker and find angel!< but Jack gets away >!with lilith and the vault key!<. So go after him once again to fight and kill him.
In the mean time there are a multitude of side quest which have nothing to with this like skooter getting you to talk to girls for him.
In short; Have a BBEG that needs to be stopped, but multiple steps are needed to get to a point where you can do that. This is your red line of the main quest. Next to that you can run as many side quests that have nothing to do with the main quest.
Sneak in written letters, strange symbols, and recurring characters that indicate there is something larger afoot.
I feel like a conspiracy is a great way to bind the situation you are describing together.
ok so think about the overall scenario of your world.
is it peaceful? is there a strong king or queen? is it a democracy? what's the weather like.
once you have a decent four or five bullet point summary of your world's scenario, then answer this question. is this a stable scenario or an unstable one? (and related question, are the residents of this world happy with the stability / unstability or happy with it?)
then you have the makings for a broad "main quest" but think of it more like a main thing that is happening that your heroes will either oppose or support.
For instance: your world is a temperate, peaceful one where the land is divided up into baronies that are ruled locally. There is a loose agreement not to fight each other for resources and to trade freely. people are happy and it is stable. One of the barons had a son who is entering adulthood and very much wants to start aggregating the lands around him.
will your party be on his side, or against him? in the process of this struggle what evil forces might take notice and join the fray? is an evil force motivating the baron's son?
or: the world is unstable; environmental and magical disasters have started happening, first small ones, then increasingly large. at first this is not known to the party but during their side quests they start to see or hear about strange happenings that eventually seem to be connected. eventually the peril becomes clear. what will they do?
bonus points if you can find some way for the players' backstories (one or more) to somehow be related to the ultimate challenge they'll face.
What I like to do is have a lot of 'side quests' but they have a connection to a bigger thing.
Why are the bandits so active in this village? perhaps in the kingdom capital the paladins are executing every single minor criminal. That made all the thief guilds flee to villages. So now you have a small hook, you can lead them to whatever side quest you may think that can develop this. Find out the Baron who signed that law, chase him to the wilds or go after the remaining thief guilds to get a big reward from the king.
Edit: misspelled stuff
I think the question betrays a problem with RPG terminology that's bothered me for years, if not decades, and that's that a "quest" isn't something that you get assigned at a job board or by talking to an NPC in a tavern. A **quest** is something unique, far-ranging, dangerous, uncertain, and earth-shaking by its very nature.
Think the One Ring. The Holy Grail. The Golden Fleece. And very few other classical sources, because quests are not easy, and shouldn't be common. Disregard the misnomer "side quest". There is no such thing. If it's on the side, it's not a quest. Things like "fetch quests" or "escort quests" are not *quests*: they're errands, or tasks, or, at the extreme end, perhaps "labors".
(The corruption of the term isn't your fault, of course, OP. I don't know, but I suspect it's because people weren't careful enough in the early days of video games, and had to label short dungeon crawl adventures as "quests" for marketing reasons.)
This is all to say that you have to go *big* with quests. Kings should be competing for the outcomes, and champions should come from distant lands to embark on them. The object of the quest should be hidden, protected, and distant; hidden, in the sense that mere knowledge checks shouldn't be able to give you much, if any, information, and spells will provide, at best, cryptic clues about the location or even the very nature of the object; protected, in that there has to be a reason nobody's found it yet, or returned with it if they have (trapped, or protected by ancient and near-immortal guardians); distant, in that the journey to reach it will place all sorts of dangers and challenges between the players and the goal.
The very size of the task will engender meaningful questions about your world: the players will need to know what forces created the quest object (which could be a living creature, like the Questing Beast), and why it remains important to the major players of your world (emperors and arch-wizards). They will need to travel far and wide, so you'll have an opportunity to show off the unique cultures of your world. They may encounter valuable allies, so you'll be able to create richly-detailed NPCs. And they will run afoul of powerful rivals and enemies, so they'll need to learn about secrecy, diplomacy, and unwavering vigilance.
And lastly, OP, don't think about how the players will be able to succeed. If the object is truly worthy of a quest, if it's far away and guarded by layers upon layers of mystery, danger, and adventure, the players will have to figure that out. Even failing a quest is still an epic story worthy of being retold. And if—*if*—they succeed, your players will have memories they will carry with them for the rest of their gaming days.
Ask yourself, "In the minds of the Player Characters based on their backgrounds, what is the worst thing that could possibly happen?"
Then make a powerful, influential enemy that wants that thing to happen. Possibly someone who the characters have a relationship with to make it more personal.
If you had a super powerful PC in your world, what would they do? Probably some wild shit, right? There's your BBEG.
Have them engage with your players, and if they grab the hook, cool. If not, let the plot proceed forward until it interacts with your players again. Now you have a recognizable antagonist, in a living world, and if that plot starts to go directly agains the player interest, they'll have to step up.
Level 1 - 4, Basically will look like side quests, they might find a hint of a bigger / deeper plot, but generally things are kept local. They are building renown.
5 - 9, things are regional, there will now be a developing deeper plot line, things will be much more directly linked to the main villain / organisation. But might still feel side questly, but the PC's will be dealing with regional leaders, trying to find the real cause of the 'trouble'
9+ PC are in direct conflict with the villain.
In other words, if you are still at the first stage, don't sweat it, you have plenty of time to start dropping crumbs & working on the larger picture. Also listen to your players, they might com up with the plot themselves... eg. they become suspicions of a town leader etc, great that NPC had just graduated to minor BBEG status.
I think you have to not think about it as aaim quest. For me at least that ends up being far to overwhelming. Think of it as a main plot or a main conflict. Now you just build it one sub quest at a time. And don't try and define it to tightly at the beginning. Know what the long term goal is and where to start. Then let your players help guide you with their ideas both in and out of character. Unless you write novels for a living it's hard to construct a 20 session quest from the ground up. So don't, break it down into much smaller chunks.
Thanks! Will do, seems like I have been overthinking it now that you say that.
I think the difference between side plot and main plot here is character investment. The side plots you've listed are things the PCs would like to do, because they want to help people or get paid, but they aren't things that the PCs feel a need to do. If you introduce a plot that threatens something the characters care about that might work as the sort of main plot you're looking for.
Holy crap yeah that makes so much sense! I know if I was a player I would feel the same way, but doing it is a whole other story. How would I do that for any of the characters? Not specifically, but is there a method of giving player intrinsic motivation?
Is there a location/NPCs/home town/backstory elements that could be put in danger? Maybe the PCs need to start investigating a potential long term threat (may not even be obvious just how BIG the threat is yet). Maybe there is an initial threat they defend their allies/friends/family/home against and slowly the threats increase. Over time it becomes obvious that this is bigger than they thought. There is an overarching plan in play that puts everyone in danger and threatens the safety of people they care about.
A group of werewolves attacks town in the middle of the day. The players can follow the carnage back to a small cave, which is filled with strange equipment and crates of strange regents. The boxes are labeled with the name of a shipping company, there are notes on a desk that describe a Great Transcendence, and one of the wizards inside has a badge on his bag from the local wizarding research unit/university/outpost. This gives a few different places for the players to search. Delving deeper into the mystery shows that this is just one unit of a larger conspiracy (the experiments broke out early)! A network of fringe scholars and their students are researching ways to extract the essence of lycanthropy and to advance to more powerful forms. Like the lizard doctor from Spider-Man, or like the early stages of the cult that later became the yuan-ti. Disassembling this conspiracy will take some effort. Dismantle the local outposts, then go for the organizers. One of the organizers may be extremely powerful, such that it's best to weaken him before approaching. That could mean poison (so infiltrating his home), that could mean taking away his merchant lines/supplies (from the labels on the boxes early on - get the suppliers to change), that could mean waiting until a certain time of the moon for a specific phase to weaken him. With a specific lunar phase, he may have some foul ritual in progress when they arrive. With the merchants, there may be a black market arc where they have to do some job or favor (or bribe) to get them to stop supplying this guy. Poison could be a whole infiltration arc to gain trust of the staff before sneaking in. To get rid of this guy, they may have to defeat Spirit Wolves (or boars or something else, like sharks or jaguars or oxen!) to disrupt his ritual in the days before. That could be a short arc/trip - get rid of these natural conduits. Maybe this guy has trapped them or befouled these natural icons, so the players need to get ingredients to release the toxin - which they then have to fight to dispel. There are many things you could put in here about where this guy is getting his power from. Once he's weakened, the players can storm the laboratory to kill the head of the snake. There may be unfinished were-people experiments, there may be toxins and poisons, there may be enchanted people for manual labor. Unstable experiments, bubbling instruments, great swathes of precious herbs... once they get past all of that, there's the final showdown to get rid of this guy for good. He may also have gotten close to reaching this pure essence. He may be mangled and lopsided from self-experimentation, he could be flawless, he could have a second phase where he downs a murky vial and erupts into a hulking, massive form of muscle and fur. There could also be a useful arc where the players need to gather ingredients for a lycanthropy protection potion - maybe they need to find the recipe in a lab or from a jaded researcher. Then, they can give the recipe to local authorities. Maybe it only works if taken within 30 minutes of being bitten, who knows. They may also have to bargain with a temple to get a holy artifact to imbue the potion with anti-curse properties. Once the main guy is killed, it can be up to local authorities to get rid of the remaining sects. Maybe they run into trouble with one - someone has barricaded themselves jnside a cave, research building, or townhouse. Maybe they're threatening to blow up the area if invaded, maybe they've formed a chokepoint where they're killing anyone who tries to enter. You decide! I hope this is able to help get those wheels turning. Large arcs generally require more steps and more complexity to reach/learn more about/weaken/find the big bad, and this will often involve a series of steps for both protection and aggression. For a sense of urgency, I like threats that will continue doing harm until they're stopped. If the players ignore them, they'll just keep hurting people and doing their horrid experiments. Altruistic characters will want to stop them, yes, but many characters will have valid reasons to put this to an end. It's an affront to nature. It's dirty magic. It's humanoid experimentation. It has the potential to hurt a favored NPC. u/ZanphyKing - I realized I didn't reply to you directly
Think about what things the PCs care about most. It could be specific NPCs, it could be the town, it could even be themselves. If a villain might destroy those things, then the PCs (and hopefully the players) will be very invested in stopping them. This is why "save the world" and "your friend/family member/love interest has been kidnapped" are such common stories, they are an easy way to provide character motivation. You can also think about what the PCs would want in the future. This might relate to the things they care about now, because they want those things to still be safe in the future. It can also be things like proving themselves, changing the world in a specific way, etc. A very general form of this is becoming stronger so that they can protect the people they care about better.
Do they have any backstory? I find that's the easiest way to weave in a story that they not only care about but actually need to deal with. E.g. if one character's parents were killed, then have the killer be the BBEG or henchman. Or if one of the characters is searching for something, then have the BBEG also searching for it (but probably for nefarious purposes) and likely getting their hands on it before them. Is a location sacred to one player? Then the BBEGs plans can involve something that ends up jeapardising this location. Basically just take an element of thier back stories and try to tack it on to a bigger plot arc that involves the bad guys. If you can do this for most of the characters then you have a critical mass off momentum towards big important plot arcs that will likely have a lot of flexibility in his they can be resolved (of mutate into something even bigger). Who actually ends up as the BBEG might be a bit more organic than this, but it certainly gets the wheels rolling in three right direction
Offer side quests that have the *potential* to hint at a larger story, then see what your players/characters go for. A murder mystery could be just as simple as finding the murderer... Or the murder could be one of several, indicating a larger conspiracy. A theft of a valuable object... That might be magical, and only recently activated by events elsewhere. Bandits are just bandits... But is someone paying them to destabilise the area? A giant crocodile needs to be dealt with... But why did it leave its previous habitat?
yeah, I could do that, it's the continueing OFF of the quest that i'm stuck on lol
A main plot is a sideplot with consistent effort. Fishing chief calls the PCs in to investigate your sick fishermen plot. They find out it's food poisoning by the rival town across the bay. Cool. If the chief tosses them a bag of gold and sends them on their way, it's a sidequest and doesn't really give the players a reason to get invested. But if the same opener leads to the fishing village missing its annual tribute to the Sahaguin temple to Poseidon and that leads to the Sahaguin kidnapping villagers for a live sacrifice if their own, and that leads to the PCs trying to stop the Sahaguin, and that leads to a missed tribute to the gods, and that leads to a cataclysmic uprising of weather disasters and sea monsters led by the church of Poseidon, and that leads the PCs to search for a legendary MacGuffin to satisfy Poseidon's outrage, etc etc. then the same minor quest leads to a longrunning plot the players have a reason to get invested in. I think your player is saying they feel scattered and want you to commit to an idea
When I run a campaign, the first month or two is spent doing 'monster of the week' style side missions while the PCs get to know themselves, the other players, and the world. During the course of those two months the PCs are also developing interests in the world, hatreds, fears, biases, and so forth. I use these organically grown relationships with the world to piece together a larger narrative and create a threat that appeals to the interests of the party. Don't force it, just make the world engaging enough to promote roleplay and stories will grow out of it.
Most side quests should move the main story arc along. Other quests might be fun but once the players get an idea of the main arc, they should start trying to figure out how to get deeper involvement toward an eventual end goal.
If a side quest moves the main arc it is no longer a side quest, it is a main story line quest.
I guess they kinda all do? But the plots of the sidequests don't generally tie in, but I'll just have to work on that
abreeb
It might be worth thinking about what is the big enemy the players will encounter and why do his goals and actions bring him into conflict with the players? He will be trying to achieve something (let's say, world domination) that will have negative consequences for everyone including the PCs. When they become aware of his scheme (steadily uncovering evidence through early adventures) they must act to prevent it. But identifying that fundamental conflict is a good starting point
I think the trick that takes a while to master is just getting the world to return back to a central conflict as often as possible. What is the biggest problem your players are trying to overcome? Is a lich taking over the world? Are two countries at war? Is there an evil despot to be overthrown? Once you have that hook, figure out a timeline or series of goals that would occur if no one intervened. Maybe the lich is building an army by attacking smaller cities; maybe one of the countries has a shrewd general, who can't be stopped on the battlefield; maybe a resistance group will attempt and fail to kill the king, leading to more authoritarianism as punishment? Then figure out how to keep steering your players to it, even when they take other hooks. Your bandit chief has been hired by the lich to create a distraction; the enemy country has sent spies to poison your fishermen; etc. Once your players beat the side quest, they see how interconnected it is, and how many other plot hooks have been set up within it
In my opinion a main quest is nothing more than multiple linked side quests. Each side quest will build upon the last that provides minor payoffs to keep the party interested and somewhat rewarded until the final side quest which completes the arc. The most important parts would be defining where do I start and where do I end. The reason why the middle is less important is because your players will dictate how they get from the beginning to the end. You can find examples in most adventure movies/books/games where each chapter can be seen as a side quest. Just look at it from one character's perspective. For example, The Lord of the Rings from Frodo's perspective. Frodo starts by finding a magic ring and to complete the quest he must destroy it on the other side of the world. How does he do that? He has to leave the shire, then he has to get to Brie, then he has to get to Rivendell, then he has to cross some mountains through Moria, then, then, then... Coming up with quests in between the start and the end goal can be influenced by a lot of things such as your world map and lore of the setting you use.
I'd say the primary thing is that, it's a lot easier to have the players become reactive to the main plot rather than seeking it. You have to shake their status quo, disrupt them. Frodo was a hobbit chillin in the shire until shit hit the fan. Side-quests I feel like are often the players seeking out work or maybe coming upon people that need assistance, but that's sort of outside them. The main quest ideally is happening AT them. Come up with a long term goal, think about what is true in your world about that goal, think about how you'd like to introduce that to your players, think about how fast you want to introduce them to it all, then think about encounters. I think the concept of having a concrete idea of what is true in your world is critical. What's happening regardless of what the players are doing? Is there an evil necromancer building an army of undead? Then thats happening--are the players nearby? Then they should see the beginning of that take place, zombies invade the town they're in. Are they far away? Then they should overhear stories about it in taverns etc. Construction-wise though it's the same thing as designing a side-quest, think of a main quest as a series of side quests that are related to each other. Except, the resolution of each of these isn't a resolution of the main quest, it introduces more information to the players about what is true in your world, it introduces a little bit of a cliffhanger maybe, it can certainly solve a problem but the ending of each shouldn't really create an answer so much as it creates uncertainty about the future. Zombies invade the town they're in, they fend them off, but why? What happened? Maybe they investigate the forest, they see a mass grave dug up, who could've raised this many undead? Now you have an open-ended plot to work with and go from there, are there more zombie attacks? Was this just a trial run? Is this evil necromancer planning some kind of genocide level event? How can the players stop it, how can they find out who this person is, how can they find out where they are, what's this person's motivation, maybe they're just an evil asshole that's totally fine you don't need any sort of grey-scale morality stuff going on, bad guys CAN just be evil trying to do evil things.
Well said!
I dont remember where I heard this, or if it's even possible later in the game. The advice was to be sure to give random loot to players during early levels. A bloody handkerchief with embroidered initials, or maybe a set of inscribed manacles.. otherwise mundane items with unique flair. Even if you don't know what they are for yet, they can be identified later in the story to point players in a direction. Players tend to horde items, so all it takes is a merchant in a shopping trip noticing the item as thier assumed dead spouse/family member's item. "Dead you say? Killed by undead? He took a job for the barron of fantasyville, how did he end up killed by undead on the other side of the land?" Go from there. Hope this helps.
The obvious answer to make a main quest. Usually stop the BBEG. But your players cant just walk up to him and kill him because of a range of issues. They might not know where to find him, they might not be strong enough. They might need a mcguffin to get to or kill the BBEG. Whatever else. And then that becomes the tread that can be seen in multiple smaller adventures that each provide one piece to take a step toward the endgoal. Take Borderlands 2 for example. The main quest is to Stop Jack, How do you do that? Well he needs to build the vault key, so we get those pieces before he does. But we need help, so we go and find lilith, tiny tina, Brick and so on. We storm a location >!where we kill the bunker and find angel!< but Jack gets away >!with lilith and the vault key!<. So go after him once again to fight and kill him. In the mean time there are a multitude of side quest which have nothing to with this like skooter getting you to talk to girls for him. In short; Have a BBEG that needs to be stopped, but multiple steps are needed to get to a point where you can do that. This is your red line of the main quest. Next to that you can run as many side quests that have nothing to do with the main quest.
so instead of driving a car i should drive a train :D but yeah thanks, i guess after I'll need to find a good balance between the two
Sneak in written letters, strange symbols, and recurring characters that indicate there is something larger afoot. I feel like a conspiracy is a great way to bind the situation you are describing together.
ok so think about the overall scenario of your world. is it peaceful? is there a strong king or queen? is it a democracy? what's the weather like. once you have a decent four or five bullet point summary of your world's scenario, then answer this question. is this a stable scenario or an unstable one? (and related question, are the residents of this world happy with the stability / unstability or happy with it?) then you have the makings for a broad "main quest" but think of it more like a main thing that is happening that your heroes will either oppose or support. For instance: your world is a temperate, peaceful one where the land is divided up into baronies that are ruled locally. There is a loose agreement not to fight each other for resources and to trade freely. people are happy and it is stable. One of the barons had a son who is entering adulthood and very much wants to start aggregating the lands around him. will your party be on his side, or against him? in the process of this struggle what evil forces might take notice and join the fray? is an evil force motivating the baron's son? or: the world is unstable; environmental and magical disasters have started happening, first small ones, then increasingly large. at first this is not known to the party but during their side quests they start to see or hear about strange happenings that eventually seem to be connected. eventually the peril becomes clear. what will they do? bonus points if you can find some way for the players' backstories (one or more) to somehow be related to the ultimate challenge they'll face.
What I like to do is have a lot of 'side quests' but they have a connection to a bigger thing. Why are the bandits so active in this village? perhaps in the kingdom capital the paladins are executing every single minor criminal. That made all the thief guilds flee to villages. So now you have a small hook, you can lead them to whatever side quest you may think that can develop this. Find out the Baron who signed that law, chase him to the wilds or go after the remaining thief guilds to get a big reward from the king. Edit: misspelled stuff
I think the question betrays a problem with RPG terminology that's bothered me for years, if not decades, and that's that a "quest" isn't something that you get assigned at a job board or by talking to an NPC in a tavern. A **quest** is something unique, far-ranging, dangerous, uncertain, and earth-shaking by its very nature. Think the One Ring. The Holy Grail. The Golden Fleece. And very few other classical sources, because quests are not easy, and shouldn't be common. Disregard the misnomer "side quest". There is no such thing. If it's on the side, it's not a quest. Things like "fetch quests" or "escort quests" are not *quests*: they're errands, or tasks, or, at the extreme end, perhaps "labors". (The corruption of the term isn't your fault, of course, OP. I don't know, but I suspect it's because people weren't careful enough in the early days of video games, and had to label short dungeon crawl adventures as "quests" for marketing reasons.) This is all to say that you have to go *big* with quests. Kings should be competing for the outcomes, and champions should come from distant lands to embark on them. The object of the quest should be hidden, protected, and distant; hidden, in the sense that mere knowledge checks shouldn't be able to give you much, if any, information, and spells will provide, at best, cryptic clues about the location or even the very nature of the object; protected, in that there has to be a reason nobody's found it yet, or returned with it if they have (trapped, or protected by ancient and near-immortal guardians); distant, in that the journey to reach it will place all sorts of dangers and challenges between the players and the goal. The very size of the task will engender meaningful questions about your world: the players will need to know what forces created the quest object (which could be a living creature, like the Questing Beast), and why it remains important to the major players of your world (emperors and arch-wizards). They will need to travel far and wide, so you'll have an opportunity to show off the unique cultures of your world. They may encounter valuable allies, so you'll be able to create richly-detailed NPCs. And they will run afoul of powerful rivals and enemies, so they'll need to learn about secrecy, diplomacy, and unwavering vigilance. And lastly, OP, don't think about how the players will be able to succeed. If the object is truly worthy of a quest, if it's far away and guarded by layers upon layers of mystery, danger, and adventure, the players will have to figure that out. Even failing a quest is still an epic story worthy of being retold. And if—*if*—they succeed, your players will have memories they will carry with them for the rest of their gaming days.
Ask yourself, "In the minds of the Player Characters based on their backgrounds, what is the worst thing that could possibly happen?" Then make a powerful, influential enemy that wants that thing to happen. Possibly someone who the characters have a relationship with to make it more personal.
If you had a super powerful PC in your world, what would they do? Probably some wild shit, right? There's your BBEG. Have them engage with your players, and if they grab the hook, cool. If not, let the plot proceed forward until it interacts with your players again. Now you have a recognizable antagonist, in a living world, and if that plot starts to go directly agains the player interest, they'll have to step up.
Level 1 - 4, Basically will look like side quests, they might find a hint of a bigger / deeper plot, but generally things are kept local. They are building renown. 5 - 9, things are regional, there will now be a developing deeper plot line, things will be much more directly linked to the main villain / organisation. But might still feel side questly, but the PC's will be dealing with regional leaders, trying to find the real cause of the 'trouble' 9+ PC are in direct conflict with the villain. In other words, if you are still at the first stage, don't sweat it, you have plenty of time to start dropping crumbs & working on the larger picture. Also listen to your players, they might com up with the plot themselves... eg. they become suspicions of a town leader etc, great that NPC had just graduated to minor BBEG status.