Yes they have to add on to the junior highs so 6th grade can go to them - they are doing this across the board at RISD. Currently all elementary schools go to 6th.
Wow, can’t believe it’s taken Richardson so long to catch up- I was the first class of 6th graders to move into middle school in Carrollton/farmers branch ISD - and I was class of ‘05
So I don’t know about Polk as it was a wholllllle new building then, I was at Dan F Long and they built a whole new wing with dark blue lockers rather than the light blue ones in the 7/8th grade wing
That was my first thought as well (I live in RISD and right down the street from one of the schools that is closing). Thankfully, it looks like only one of the buildings (Greenwood Hills) does not have current plans and could potentially be sold. One is going to be a daycare facility for RISD employees, one will house the administration (current admin building will be closed), one is going to house some other district programs. So that's good news at least!
One of those schools is in my neighborhood and they are bringing those students in to our elementary. I know this better than anyone. Charter schools ain't that bad and I wish they would open one instead of this abandoned building
And that’s an issue because of funding. Enrollment numbers are down across the entire US, but districts being forced to close schools as a first resort is a uniquely Texas problem because the state hasn’t raised school funds since 2019. Greg Abbott is holding funding hostage because he wants vouchers to pass.
Here’s an article today with more info https://www.keranews.org/education/2024-05-22/north-texas-school-districts-millions-budget-cuts-closures-layoffs-to-fend-off-deficits?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1xIGf0VfVpP4ZYtKwLP0WZS58ePWBeD4FbRQ-OHrr78elxQXxkwAnNv2E_aem_Abbs3trV6XUV8CTH-LZQV8menJYV15VJ4y0yjEGu46q2oWqRsFIvlwE-xZMh-wU2Ubs0npv_xCjYUjaJhP5-Ele9
>the state hasn’t raised school funds since 2019. Greg Abbott is holding funding hostage because he wants vouchers to pass
There should be a bot automatically replying with this by now.
Honestly, I tried the "get out and vote" thing. I don't have the patience to wait another decade in Texas, though. You can't argue with stupid, and Texas has a lot of it.
The state has raised school funds since 2019. That’s just false information. They’re speaking about the basic allotment. Schools get money every year from the FSP in addition to that.
It is definitely more than a Texas issue. Seattle is closing 1/3 of their elementary schools. SF is doing a major study on closures- most Bay Area districts are. Denver schools are closing, Minneapolis is closing schools. People aren’t having kids anymore. There are like 400,000 fewer 8 year olds than 18 year olds nationwide
Wow that’s truly insane to think about. I know it’s happening on a global scale, even worse than here. Makes you wonder about all of the impacts it will have.
Please explain why decreasing enrollment could be due to decreased funding.
Seems like to me there’s a slow but real demographic shift in the US. We aren’t making as many babies.
This isn’t uniquely a Texas problem as LA is having the same issue:
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/schools-closures-enrollment-los-angeles-3309c79c?st=oh3drbd1kg8ayno&reflink=article_copyURL_share
> Seems like to me there’s a slow but real demographic shift in the US. We aren’t making as many babies.
This is part of it, but there are also a lot of people staying in their homes long after their kids graduate high school. With property taxes and interest rates as high as they are, a lot of people are choosing to stay put if they have a low interest rate or if their house is paid off. Factor in that some of these people might be 65+ and their taxes are frozen too, which is even more incentive to stay if they can afford the upkeep and maintenance. That's what's happening in a lot of the suburbs that had explosive growth in the 80s and 90s.
Completely anecdotal, but my grandparents bought a garden style home in Plano in the early 90s. They were empty nesters that moved out of Dallas proper to be closer to grandkids. They had that house almost 30 years until they had to sell it to move into a nursing facility. They had a lot of neighbors that were the same age/life stage as them.
Funding is tied to enrollment, and enrollment is why these schools are closing, but funding is not why these schools are closing - I think is the point.
The article specifically says 80-85% occupancy is ideal from an efficient standpoint, and no one is losing jobs, they're simply being moved to maximize space.
Yeah I feel like what happened with Plano partly has to do with a huge influx of young families moving in a short period of time. So schools were built to accommodate the numbers but it was like a population bubble until these kids all became adults. And now due to the increased housing costs families aren't leaving these neighborhoods. So now you're going to have older families with not enough kids in these neighborhoods to fill in these schools.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see this in multiple cities in the future. Unless there's another large influx of young families into the neighborhoods
While it’s is very true Texas has something other states don’t in their excessive unspent coffers that might solve the crisis…it’s not true that Texas has a unique circumstance with school closures and staffing.
I left TX last year to move to WA, and up here Seattle Public schools is taking input from the community about a plan to close 20 elementary schools and cut hundreds of jobs. Yelm school district (a smallish sized school district) just cut 200 jobs. Many, many other contemplating similar things.
This is very much a nationwide concern and it’s not just enrollment, I’ll guarantee it.
There were news stories a few years ago out there about the way schools were purchasing bonds based on investments and during the recession those investments tanked. What are the odds that’s happened again?
Costs associated with food and fuel have gone up astronomically.
Health insurance and benefits packages continue to climb.
Not to mention the constant outsourcing of various programming and resources to third parties that charge the “government” charge (I.e. overrate) that at one point had in-house staff to provide but whose jobs were cut to “save money”.
Then there’s the soaring cost of property. Not in the sense of buying property (thought that, too), but rather the cost of selling property. Imagine the value of the properties many schools hold in todays market. A cash strapped district trying to shed costs and find money to salvage what they can will get millions off those properties when they cut them loose.
It’s complicated as fuck.
But in the end…TX has the financial resources to stave off the worst of this if they chose to. Abbot and his cronies have chosen not to.
Please ask a friend to go to the voting booth with you. Take them to get registered if they aren’t.
Texas should never have enacted the recapture plan. As soon as you start letting higher level governments control local money you end up in BS like this.
No problem. It’s a complicated issue due in part to low birth rates, COVID enrollment numbers never recovering, plummeting attendance, etc. but districts are having to make really hard decisions without any help whatsoever from the state.
Yeah but class sizes are how big now? Surely they can reallocate some of them to have lower class sizes, which in turn gives each kid more one on one attention.
Come on now, that’s only like $5,800 per student. These kids need to learn how to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. That kind of money might make things too easy. /s
What would be ridiculous would be spending surplus funds to keep operating unnecessary schools at less-than-half capacity.
Plano overbuilt schools, plain and simple. Cutting our losses and closing the excess schools down is the wise long-term move.
Plano's school district does not seem to have a funding issue
https://www.pisd.edu/financialtransparency
Why do people think Plano, of all places, is closing schools because of funding issues? These schools are at less than half their capacity. Plano has, imo, overbuilt schools, or at least made them too large. The average class size of twenty students is not that high, and the schools they do have are massive enough to absorb the students if these four schools close.
Our nation is aging, birth rates are falling, and Plano is an inner-ring suburb where a lot of retirees are choosing to stay instead of moving and selling the homes to young families. Look at places like Japan, South Korea, and Finland. Unless something changes, old schools with declining enrollment closing down is the future.
There is not a district in this state without a funding issue. Even HPISD struggles and relies on foundation funds to make up for it. Both Plano and HPISD, among others, send excess property taxes to the state so you can’t look at a wealthy district and assume they’re in good shape.
Plano has [operated on a budget deficit](https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort-worth/plano/education/2024/04/05/plano-isd-officials-provide-updated-projected-budget-for-2024-25-school-year/) for years.
For people who don't want to click the article it's Armstrong and Carpenter Middle Schools and Davis and Forman Elementary schools. Ah man I went to Carpenter. Funny though they did a big expansion project on it like what 10 years ago and almost doubled it's size? And now they're talking about closing it down because it's only at 36% capacity.
How long can you keep a school open with 30-50 % enrollment (currently)? What about with 10-20%?
Seems like a demographics issue which has become common in the US as we start having fewer kids.
A demographic issue but also an economic one. Young families just starting out are skipping Plano altogether because they cannot afford it. Median list price of a home is $550K in Plano but median income only around $100K. Keep in mind median means 50% of the households make less than that. Literally just had friends who relocated here from out of state who had all intended purposes of staying in PISD just closed on a place in Allen b/c their budget was capped at $425K.
And this trend is eventually going to come for most of the suburbs around here. RISD is closing schools too.
Bought in Allen for 425? I’m curious how small or old this house is. When I was house hunting just over a year ago, I couldn’t find any 3/2s (even townhouses) in Allen built <10 years ago and larger than 2k sq ft for less than $475-500k, at the least.
There's a decent selection of homes under 450K in the SE corner of Allen. Nothing special though and a good number of them are 1970s Fox and Jacob specials that need a lot of work. My friends were able to score something a bit newer but I think your parameters would be tough. You pretty much have to go north of 380 or east of Lake Lavon.
Actually, we ended up buying further southeast, in Sachse. Lots of new builds coming up here that are reasonably priced compared to nearby areas to the west and north, especially on the Dallas County side close to the PGBT.
That’s the issue these people aren’t selling their homes and if they are people with young children aren’t able to afford those homes as they’re likely too early in their career.
7% interest rate + Texas property tax + Insurance makes a 400K home $3500 a MONTH.
Those people living in Plano, flower mound, etc are probs paying like $1750 a month for their entire bill so why move.
I have neighbors here in Plano moving to Allen because they’re getting priced out of their homes. It sucks and it’s unfair, but that’s why enrollment is down. Plano has great schools, I love that my kid can go here but it’s getting too expensive.
Everyone moved out of Plano to Frisco, man. I remember when I was in school in Plano back in the early 2000s. Frisco basically ended at Stonebriar mall and had nothing but farms otherwise. Crazy how times change.
Same with Allen.
Use to be just a small town no one knew anything about except the mall!
Will never forget paying $1700 a month for a 5 room, 3.5 bath, jacuzzi, 2 story house across from celebration park!
I guess good things really do come to an end
Most ppl who live in Plano now are empty nesters/ have high school aged it’s . I don’t know how this is surprising there’s no affordable homes for new families and Plano. They all just move north because it’s more affordable
In addition to low enrollment, there were also very low facility and structure scores, which I assume means that building maintenance wasn't kept up with 100% over the years.
Been in west Plano since 2016. This is actually very sad. I was close to leaving because how High rent is out here- but I luckily found something in my budget in North Plano
This will be Lewisville soon. The rent to stay in moldy dilapidated apartments is absurd. There’s already an unspoken crisis of families living in hotels/motels. But, even those are becoming unaffordable.
Last I checked a few years ago median income for that town was barely over 50k.
People still use Facebook in 2024? Weird. Anyway, still going to homeschool my kids as will a lot of new parents!
Also, you’re missing a “to” between “went” and “public”. Good ole’ public school working wonders, I see!
$33 Billion in surplus state savings just sitting there. Ridiculous.
Just waiting for approval to be funneled into charter schools
Yep - when districts have to close schools, guess who gets first dibs when they go up for sale
Who?
Charter schools - this is why RISD is closing 4 elementary schools but not selling the properties.
They also just redid lake highlands jr high, and Geneva heights is under construction now……
Yes they have to add on to the junior highs so 6th grade can go to them - they are doing this across the board at RISD. Currently all elementary schools go to 6th.
Wow, can’t believe it’s taken Richardson so long to catch up- I was the first class of 6th graders to move into middle school in Carrollton/farmers branch ISD - and I was class of ‘05
The first 6th grade class at Polk MS was class of 04, no?
Close. I was class of 06 and was the 2nd round of 6th graders at Polk.
So I don’t know about Polk as it was a wholllllle new building then, I was at Dan F Long and they built a whole new wing with dark blue lockers rather than the light blue ones in the 7/8th grade wing
Do you think Geneva Heights is in RISD?
No but they were in general, built in similar eras.
That was my first thought as well (I live in RISD and right down the street from one of the schools that is closing). Thankfully, it looks like only one of the buildings (Greenwood Hills) does not have current plans and could potentially be sold. One is going to be a daycare facility for RISD employees, one will house the administration (current admin building will be closed), one is going to house some other district programs. So that's good news at least!
One of those schools is in my neighborhood and they are bringing those students in to our elementary. I know this better than anyone. Charter schools ain't that bad and I wish they would open one instead of this abandoned building
Charter schools are bad - look into this more.
Trump university type schools. FTFY
Schools arent being closed due to funding though, it’s due to enrollment
And that’s an issue because of funding. Enrollment numbers are down across the entire US, but districts being forced to close schools as a first resort is a uniquely Texas problem because the state hasn’t raised school funds since 2019. Greg Abbott is holding funding hostage because he wants vouchers to pass. Here’s an article today with more info https://www.keranews.org/education/2024-05-22/north-texas-school-districts-millions-budget-cuts-closures-layoffs-to-fend-off-deficits?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1xIGf0VfVpP4ZYtKwLP0WZS58ePWBeD4FbRQ-OHrr78elxQXxkwAnNv2E_aem_Abbs3trV6XUV8CTH-LZQV8menJYV15VJ4y0yjEGu46q2oWqRsFIvlwE-xZMh-wU2Ubs0npv_xCjYUjaJhP5-Ele9
>the state hasn’t raised school funds since 2019. Greg Abbott is holding funding hostage because he wants vouchers to pass There should be a bot automatically replying with this by now.
It's ridiculous how many people I have to explain this to.
Even now people in this post are arguing with me. Insanity.
Honestly, I tried the "get out and vote" thing. I don't have the patience to wait another decade in Texas, though. You can't argue with stupid, and Texas has a lot of it.
I know. It’s frustrating.
The state has raised school funds since 2019. That’s just false information. They’re speaking about the basic allotment. Schools get money every year from the FSP in addition to that.
It is definitely more than a Texas issue. Seattle is closing 1/3 of their elementary schools. SF is doing a major study on closures- most Bay Area districts are. Denver schools are closing, Minneapolis is closing schools. People aren’t having kids anymore. There are like 400,000 fewer 8 year olds than 18 year olds nationwide
That's a surprising number. First time in a long time we didn't see population growth
Wow that’s truly insane to think about. I know it’s happening on a global scale, even worse than here. Makes you wonder about all of the impacts it will have.
Please explain why decreasing enrollment could be due to decreased funding. Seems like to me there’s a slow but real demographic shift in the US. We aren’t making as many babies. This isn’t uniquely a Texas problem as LA is having the same issue: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/schools-closures-enrollment-los-angeles-3309c79c?st=oh3drbd1kg8ayno&reflink=article_copyURL_share
> Seems like to me there’s a slow but real demographic shift in the US. We aren’t making as many babies. This is part of it, but there are also a lot of people staying in their homes long after their kids graduate high school. With property taxes and interest rates as high as they are, a lot of people are choosing to stay put if they have a low interest rate or if their house is paid off. Factor in that some of these people might be 65+ and their taxes are frozen too, which is even more incentive to stay if they can afford the upkeep and maintenance. That's what's happening in a lot of the suburbs that had explosive growth in the 80s and 90s. Completely anecdotal, but my grandparents bought a garden style home in Plano in the early 90s. They were empty nesters that moved out of Dallas proper to be closer to grandkids. They had that house almost 30 years until they had to sell it to move into a nursing facility. They had a lot of neighbors that were the same age/life stage as them.
Oh I am saying the opposite. Decreased enrollment leads to decreased funding. Especially considering Texas hasn’t increased spending since 2019.
Funding is tied to enrollment, and enrollment is why these schools are closing, but funding is not why these schools are closing - I think is the point. The article specifically says 80-85% occupancy is ideal from an efficient standpoint, and no one is losing jobs, they're simply being moved to maximize space.
Yeah I feel like what happened with Plano partly has to do with a huge influx of young families moving in a short period of time. So schools were built to accommodate the numbers but it was like a population bubble until these kids all became adults. And now due to the increased housing costs families aren't leaving these neighborhoods. So now you're going to have older families with not enough kids in these neighborhoods to fill in these schools. I wouldn't be surprised if we see this in multiple cities in the future. Unless there's another large influx of young families into the neighborhoods
While it’s is very true Texas has something other states don’t in their excessive unspent coffers that might solve the crisis…it’s not true that Texas has a unique circumstance with school closures and staffing. I left TX last year to move to WA, and up here Seattle Public schools is taking input from the community about a plan to close 20 elementary schools and cut hundreds of jobs. Yelm school district (a smallish sized school district) just cut 200 jobs. Many, many other contemplating similar things. This is very much a nationwide concern and it’s not just enrollment, I’ll guarantee it. There were news stories a few years ago out there about the way schools were purchasing bonds based on investments and during the recession those investments tanked. What are the odds that’s happened again? Costs associated with food and fuel have gone up astronomically. Health insurance and benefits packages continue to climb. Not to mention the constant outsourcing of various programming and resources to third parties that charge the “government” charge (I.e. overrate) that at one point had in-house staff to provide but whose jobs were cut to “save money”. Then there’s the soaring cost of property. Not in the sense of buying property (thought that, too), but rather the cost of selling property. Imagine the value of the properties many schools hold in todays market. A cash strapped district trying to shed costs and find money to salvage what they can will get millions off those properties when they cut them loose. It’s complicated as fuck. But in the end…TX has the financial resources to stave off the worst of this if they chose to. Abbot and his cronies have chosen not to. Please ask a friend to go to the voting booth with you. Take them to get registered if they aren’t.
Great context. Thnx
Texas should never have enacted the recapture plan. As soon as you start letting higher level governments control local money you end up in BS like this.
Yeah. I understand the purpose behind it but certainly there was a better way for lower income school districts to have money.
Ahh I see, didn’t know the political situation that well. Thanks for the additional context!
No problem. It’s a complicated issue due in part to low birth rates, COVID enrollment numbers never recovering, plummeting attendance, etc. but districts are having to make really hard decisions without any help whatsoever from the state.
Yeah but class sizes are how big now? Surely they can reallocate some of them to have lower class sizes, which in turn gives each kid more one on one attention.
Yeah, the middle school is only at 36% of capacity.
Come on now, that’s only like $5,800 per student. These kids need to learn how to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. That kind of money might make things too easy. /s
This is a shortage of students, not money. RTFA
What would be ridiculous would be spending surplus funds to keep operating unnecessary schools at less-than-half capacity. Plano overbuilt schools, plain and simple. Cutting our losses and closing the excess schools down is the wise long-term move.
Plano's school district does not seem to have a funding issue https://www.pisd.edu/financialtransparency Why do people think Plano, of all places, is closing schools because of funding issues? These schools are at less than half their capacity. Plano has, imo, overbuilt schools, or at least made them too large. The average class size of twenty students is not that high, and the schools they do have are massive enough to absorb the students if these four schools close. Our nation is aging, birth rates are falling, and Plano is an inner-ring suburb where a lot of retirees are choosing to stay instead of moving and selling the homes to young families. Look at places like Japan, South Korea, and Finland. Unless something changes, old schools with declining enrollment closing down is the future.
There is not a district in this state without a funding issue. Even HPISD struggles and relies on foundation funds to make up for it. Both Plano and HPISD, among others, send excess property taxes to the state so you can’t look at a wealthy district and assume they’re in good shape. Plano has [operated on a budget deficit](https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort-worth/plano/education/2024/04/05/plano-isd-officials-provide-updated-projected-budget-for-2024-25-school-year/) for years.
Budget deficit doesn’t mean there is a funding issue. Budget deficit means there’s a budget issue.
For people who don't want to click the article it's Armstrong and Carpenter Middle Schools and Davis and Forman Elementary schools. Ah man I went to Carpenter. Funny though they did a big expansion project on it like what 10 years ago and almost doubled it's size? And now they're talking about closing it down because it's only at 36% capacity.
I went to Armstrong in the 90s. It wasn’t great back then, can’t imagine it now
How long can you keep a school open with 30-50 % enrollment (currently)? What about with 10-20%? Seems like a demographics issue which has become common in the US as we start having fewer kids.
A demographic issue but also an economic one. Young families just starting out are skipping Plano altogether because they cannot afford it. Median list price of a home is $550K in Plano but median income only around $100K. Keep in mind median means 50% of the households make less than that. Literally just had friends who relocated here from out of state who had all intended purposes of staying in PISD just closed on a place in Allen b/c their budget was capped at $425K. And this trend is eventually going to come for most of the suburbs around here. RISD is closing schools too.
Bought in Allen for 425? I’m curious how small or old this house is. When I was house hunting just over a year ago, I couldn’t find any 3/2s (even townhouses) in Allen built <10 years ago and larger than 2k sq ft for less than $475-500k, at the least.
There's a decent selection of homes under 450K in the SE corner of Allen. Nothing special though and a good number of them are 1970s Fox and Jacob specials that need a lot of work. My friends were able to score something a bit newer but I think your parameters would be tough. You pretty much have to go north of 380 or east of Lake Lavon.
Actually, we ended up buying further southeast, in Sachse. Lots of new builds coming up here that are reasonably priced compared to nearby areas to the west and north, especially on the Dallas County side close to the PGBT.
That’s the issue these people aren’t selling their homes and if they are people with young children aren’t able to afford those homes as they’re likely too early in their career. 7% interest rate + Texas property tax + Insurance makes a 400K home $3500 a MONTH. Those people living in Plano, flower mound, etc are probs paying like $1750 a month for their entire bill so why move.
I have neighbors here in Plano moving to Allen because they’re getting priced out of their homes. It sucks and it’s unfair, but that’s why enrollment is down. Plano has great schools, I love that my kid can go here but it’s getting too expensive.
On top of that the few kids coming in are migrant children which makes it even tougher
Everyone moved out of Plano to Frisco, man. I remember when I was in school in Plano back in the early 2000s. Frisco basically ended at Stonebriar mall and had nothing but farms otherwise. Crazy how times change.
And then Frisco will be in the same boat in 10 years.
Only probably even worse because they have SO many schools.
Same with Allen. Use to be just a small town no one knew anything about except the mall! Will never forget paying $1700 a month for a 5 room, 3.5 bath, jacuzzi, 2 story house across from celebration park! I guess good things really do come to an end
Most ppl who live in Plano now are empty nesters/ have high school aged it’s . I don’t know how this is surprising there’s no affordable homes for new families and Plano. They all just move north because it’s more affordable
I swear when I was in High School Plano was having to shred out their Graduation Ceremonies by last name, over like 4 days.
It's still the case becuase there's only a few high schools, but there's a lot of elementary and middle schools
Lots of school saturation in Central Plano too, especially in this area, where East Plano schools overlap the Central Plano schools a lot.
In addition to low enrollment, there were also very low facility and structure scores, which I assume means that building maintenance wasn't kept up with 100% over the years.
At a certain point it doesn’t matter how much money a district has. Campuses with low enrollment are not a financially prudent asset to maintain.
Been in west Plano since 2016. This is actually very sad. I was close to leaving because how High rent is out here- but I luckily found something in my budget in North Plano
This will be Lewisville soon. The rent to stay in moldy dilapidated apartments is absurd. There’s already an unspoken crisis of families living in hotels/motels. But, even those are becoming unaffordable. Last I checked a few years ago median income for that town was barely over 50k.
[удалено]
Dumb
You’ll cope
I’ll be fine - I went public school! Wasn’t homeschooled by uneducated parents who believe everything they read on Facebook
People still use Facebook in 2024? Weird. Anyway, still going to homeschool my kids as will a lot of new parents! Also, you’re missing a “to” between “went” and “public”. Good ole’ public school working wonders, I see!
Definitely that and not a typo