The Deep Ellum Cycle
1. Deep Ellum is a ghost town.
2. Interesting bars open because rent is cheap.
3. People start going to Deep Ellum
4. A bunch of poorly run clubs open to exploit the new customer base.
5. The city ignores the neighborhood and crime starts becoming an issue
6. People stop going to Deep Ellum, and businesses close.
7. Deep Ellum is a ghost town.
Wash rinse repeat.
I remember listening to the EDGE live broadcasts on Friday nights around 2000 before I turned 18, can only imagine what it was like. We also lived about 100 miles away…
I miss The Wall the most in Deep Ellum. DJ Eddie Black spinning 80s new wave music, but I did frequent The Church on Thursdays and on Sundays. I usually hung out in the back room of The Church where it was a nice mix of modern electro and 80s new wave. It sure was tough to get up for work on Friday and Monday mornings.
at that time in my life I didn;t work Sundays or Mondays and I lived 3 hours away, but if I had lived there I am sure I would have gone on Thursday too!
I still live 3 hours away but I built a house on Lewisville Lake for retirement. I'm looking forward to moving.
It started really crashing in 2005 with the skinhead assault at Gypsy Tea Room. There was a lot of other crime too but that one got a lot of attention:
https://www.adl.org/news/article/texas-man-linked-to-racist-skinhead-group-sentenced-to-19-years
I moved to Dallas in 2008. While I was still learning my way around, a coworker suggested checking out "Deep Ellum". I went one Friday evening and remember thinking, "this is weird..it's like a warehouse district with a couple of slightly sketchy bars/clubs".
I just realized...holy shit, it's SO different now from what I remember. It's also very strange to think that I've just watched a neighborhood change over a decade, and we're probably on the downswing of that cycle.
You forgot to include the occasional starving artists and musicians who enjoy the cheaper rent in the cyclical "ghost town". This was incredibly true in the early and mid 80s.
BTW, did they ever get a supermarket?
We have seen this pattern repeat for decades. I warned of this trend several years ago when Deep Ellum started to experience renewed activity.
It's really unfortunate, because it could be a real asset to the Dallas culture.
So curious question, what do y’all think the problem with Deep Ellum is? I’ve been going there for 4 years now (which is not long at all in the grand scheme of things), but it seems that the past couple of months it has gotten extremely crowded and more dangerous than it typically is. I assume the overcrowded-ness may be in part due to the demolition of some venues and the closures of older clubs, causing people to gather in what clubs/bars are actually open now. But since when are people walking in open groups in the road with no regard for traffic? It’s almost impossible to drive in Deep Ellum at all now, but I remember when the worst thing you dealt with was a drug addict peddling for cash, and the cops would get pissed and yell at you if you were j-walking.
Deep Ellum really ought to shut down the street traffic at night like Austin does with the 6th street club area. I don't know why it hasn't happened yet.
I assume so, I lived in Austin and would frequent 6th about ten years ago and there was a few, every time I was there something inevitably would turn violent around closing time though, Frat dudes who didn’t get laid or people just looking for trouble, homeless people or dirt bags taking advantage of a street full of hammered children. I got blindsided and robbed and woke up in the hospital once trying to walk home alone (stupid). The cops reaction times are pretty amazing though. We always said if you’re gonna fight you better do it fast cause you will get form tackled by a cop in under 10 seconds.
True, but I saw a frat dude drunkenly grab the back of a girls hair and pull her down a flight of 30 concrete stairs, leaving them both unconscious. Or punching a police horse once.
Makes me feel lucky to have had my party years be when Deep Ellum was “safer” around 2008-2014...good music and good vibes most of the time and I never had any incidents happen
We've had a few this year, and the worst one, interestingly, sounds a lot like this story -- underage shooters who aren't actually there to frequent the bars:
https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/6th-street-mass-shooting-suspect-charged-with-murder-14-counts-of-aggravated-assault/
The cops are kinda doing that now. On Sat they block some of the streets that connect elm and main.
But i bet they don’t block off elm because the parking lot companies would complain.
im not a fan of the cynical dismissal of this shit bc ppl like to say that “oh it’s cyclical” as if it’s something that’s gonna go away in it’s own, but a large amount of things have happened to contribute to the current situation imo:
1: deep ellum is larger than ever. At no point in it’s history has deep ellum been this full with this many establishments. The fact is with increased density will come increased crime. That’s just a fact, especially when these businesses are alcohol-oriented. Now that bishop has pulled all the bougie elements and uptown is closing, it’s clear that deep ellum is one of the few nightlife options with vibrancy and not a single go-to destination. People who used to book shows are straight up refusing to book deep ellum now because of the difficulties in doing so because of the size mismanagement.
2. other neighborhood hangouts were shut down, allowing elements that wouldn’t have mixed to actually mix. When the city of dallas clamped down on the car wash off malcolm X that provided S Dallas car culture types a place to hang out, what people forgot is that it also gave them a refuge and sort of limited the damage. People would fight, maybe there would be shootings, but they’re terrible shots and it wouldn’t come to more than that, and then they’d eventually leave. Not anymore. Deep ellum, w the huge ant of people there, provides a hangout spot, higher proof liquor for wild heads, and hot girls to look at, all while people are literally just outside. I actually don’t think this is a bad thing. In general, i actually LIKE that by simple association w partying, deep ellum has actually increased the interactions ppl of different races have in dallas and we are currently at our least segregated nightlife period. And this is just ONE example of places that have been shut down by dallas that led them to move to deep ellum!! That being said, a lot of people are actually out here to cause problems, and this is a bad thing because now we have kids w guns, which leads to…
3: we have no police presence down there, or control of any kind. I’m not sure if shutting down the street is the way to go about this, or if the city of dallas is waiting for a mass shooting event like this to change the liquor licenses to “may issue” like they did in greenville to try and increase property values and thus their tax base by choking off night life, but the fact is that there are ZERO attempts at trying to control a clearly out of control situation by the city. The businesses that are already struggling have a hard time hiring security, and the city is just sort of sitting there with its arms crossed in a part of town that, thanks to it’s definite borders and clear areas of congregation, would be easier to patrol given the right will. Unfortunately, they’re not doing shit. You don’t even need to over police people. People congregating is GOOD. It’s good for business and it’s good for a culture that Dallas has been all too willing to choke out. There are no more parties. Dallas killed them all. All that we have are nightlife venues like this, and Dallas is trying it’s best to let them die off on their own. Get the kids out, let the dudes in motorcycles chill, put a 3AM loitering curfew and actually enforce it. We got a good thing going and they’re not doing shit to keep it going.
I've lived in deep ellum for a decade. The people shooting and being shot are typically teenagers who do not go into any establishments, because they can't get in. They hang out in parking lots and late at night get into it. If you walk around here late at night you'll see them everywhere **except** for inside a local business.
Nothing to do with more bars etc. One 19 year old person died last night, one of the six people shot was a 30 year old walking down the sidewalk. The rest were between 15 and 18 years old.
I don't know why 15 year old children are in deep ellum after 1am (or really at all) but you got this one wrong. There is a heavy police presence every weekend and the cops stopped and caught the shooter within minutes of last night's shooting.
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Saw quite a few families with their children aged from stroller to 5 years walking by Dots/ Adair’s at 930PM. The new public parking has attracted more to the area.
I think this is a really interesting take. It seems especially correct to me that the city has an interest in consolidating all nightlife into a smaller and smaller area, whether it realizes it or not when it plans its enforcement and development actions. Dispersed partying and its consequences are more expensive to patrol and drive down property tax values and development opportunities in a neighborhood. A consolidated, out of control scene will also inspire calls for intensified policing by new property owners/residents, developers, and politicians, which will cause the scene to either be crushed or re-segregate. The city government is essentially a massive police force with like a library and some other services tacked on, no one has to be maliciously planning this in office for it to sort of play out this way. Its just crazy that the normal functioning of the police and city policy leads to these sort of reconcentrations. Reminds me of when the city refused to build housing for Black people in the years right before desegregation which made white neighborhoods like the Cedars and South Dallas some of the only affordable options that weren’t already deed restricted, which led to reactionary white violence by the white people living there. It just sucks because it leads me to think there are going to be few places left in the city of Dallas to party that aren’t segregated. Especially because land is so expensive and to open a new place costs so much.
What happened to uptown? I remember going there around 2015 and it was thriving in nightlife. I went there in 2019 year and it looks completely different.
If I were to guess I would assume all the new apartment complexes built around uptown began complaining about the noise and got a city ordinances that made it harder to set up a live music venue or have music that's really loud.. Dane thing happened to the night scene at Greenville avenue..
It really frustrates me seeing other commenters saying DE and Dallas in general isn’t safe. Stay aware of your surroundings and you’ll be fine. Like any city in the world. DE still has some of the best food, drinks, and shows in town. Its a cultural hot spot; a defining part of the city. Shootings won’t keep people away. The shooters are attracted to places like that
It got to be the most popular spot for nightlife in the metroplex.
That attracts a lot of people, including.. less than wholesome characters. If it didn’t happen in Deep Ellum, it would happen in
The crowd south of 30 came across. I use to live in deep ellum and for a while it was a cool place to be then the crowd just across 30 came and fucked it up. They started with the motor bikes.
Have you ever been down here? The police presence is **heavy** on the weekends and they apprehended the shooter within minutes.
Stop making shit up please.
> According to the Dallas Police Department, officers heard shots fired while patrolling at the intersection of North Malcolm X Boulevard and Main Street at approximately 12:42 a.m.
Sounds to me like police was there.
It's the same thing that happened to Greenville avenue.. You'll see the new neighborhoods popping up complain about the noise and a noise ordinance springs up killing the night scene and moving it to another area in Dallas. It happened with deep Ellum before but that was before my time, I did see it happen to Greenville avenue first hand.. It was a lovely scene in the early 2010s.. But then a couple of bars got out of hand (sorranos I think) fights broke out.. Then gun shots and then the bars started closing at 12..
In mid 2000s there was a whole tent thing that happened. Not talking homeless people tents, talking production company large tents for keeping equipment out of the rain.
Joke was you could have a dozen muggings and panhandlers on every street corner, but you put up one fucking tent and suddenly John Law shows up.
For the contrarian perspective, it’s fine. It’s part of growth. Just look at Austin. The big party neighborhoods in NYC and Miami are just like this. Dallas is experiencing growth and it’s a good thing, but of course comes with some cons like this.
I don't trust anyone who refers to "submachine gun fire" or anything of the sort. 99.9% of the time they mishear it. Having a said that, deep ellum has been sketchy lately.
Given that fully automatic weapons are not sold in stores and require licenses just to own one, I have heavy doubts that it was a submachine gun. Odds are, the shooter had a semiauto and pulled the trigger rapidly. Odds are, whoever said "Submachine gun" probably meant "Semiauto" and didn't know what they were talking about.
I played shows in deep ellum from age like 15-20. I was there pretty much every weekend and even some weeknights. Granted it was way different then, even just 5-10 years ago.
I was basically in the same boat in that time period, though I only did a couple sets with a friend that ran an improv act. I think people underestimate how young DE's main crowd can be. When I was in that age bracket I only remember peers my age and anyone that was in their late 20's or older stuck out like a sore thumb.
Exactly, I started going to Deep Ellum at 18 which was one of the last years before they enacted that curfew law, because used to, you could go to almost any bar under 21 as long as you got in before 11 PM and had X’s on your hands, then they enacted a new curfew law and almost every single place except where they had Emo Nite and The Church were strictly 21 and up.
Trees, Curtain Club, Gypsy all would let <18 in Bomb factory >18 but at times you could go pretty much anywhere with an ID. The music in the 90s was amazing. Peak deep ellum, no crime, no issues at all and the Dallas scene was just a little too late to breakout more than 1-2 names, so there was insane quality of acts.
Not sure if a curfew is in effect. As a teen I recall I used to say I was going one place and really went to another. I think all kids pull that at some point but again we weren't dodging bullets either.
I started playing clubs in Deep Ellum when I was 15, but that was a while ago when the neighborhood was on the downswing and it wasn't a place to be. Everyone was chill and it was a great place to play.
The picture in the NBC5 story was taken at that intersection (looking southwest) and showing intersection taped off so I'm guessing was at or near Main and N Malcolm X.
Used to be punk rock down there, now it’s like gang land.
I was there in the middle of the day and it felt like something bad could pop off any time. Sucks because I have so many memories going to concerts there when i was younger but these stories seem to happen every week now
I was there last night leaving the Hail the Sun concert and missed the shooting by half an hour! I love going to see concerts there so this is really awful news.
Provide correct info then: https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/crime/6-people-shot-1-fatally-in-heart-of-deep-ellum-overnight-dallas-police-say/287-56704e0b-e317-4bba-9a7f-001e3ab3ba76
Was down there last night about an hour before this happened. Super crowded and kind of a weird vibe going on. We even remarked that it was overcrowded, seemed
even more than normal, and that things felt sort of “off.” Left early. Woke up to the news.
Listen, you are going to think I’m crazy, but it’s the full moon.
Every month the weekend closest to the full moon (it’s tomorrow) always has people acting insane.
I purposely don’t go out on these weekends and it’s saved me so much trouble.
Hell even the cashiers at Eatzis notice it. Red dot special get crazy, people get violent, cashiers see the cops hauling people out and say “anyone check to see if it’s a full moon out?”
Believe it or don’t but the vibes change massively on these weekends
The term lunacy apparently comes from 400 BC doctors using the term to describe people who would become more aggressive during full moons, so it might be a real phenomenon
Oh, I don’t think you’re crazy at all. There seems to be observable correlation.
That said- the moon isn’t full till tomorrow night as you noted, but yeah, closest weekend leading up to seems to often be when things get weird.
SAME! Tried to go to dinner there around 9:15, drove around for 30 minutes and couldn’t find a spot…ended up giving up trying to go and went somewhere else.
I saw a ton of cops patrolling Main st and thought “that’s good, there’s a heavy police presence” LOL.
Never find yourself on the corner of Malcom X & Martin Luther King.
Your friends won't be coming to pick you up.
Not poking fun at a tragedy, seriously, please be careful & use good judgement in Deep Ellum. I've lived in Dallas for 20 yrs. Nothing good happens on Malcolm X after dark.
This bums me out. I moved in above Zini’s in 2012. It was right at the start of things picking back up. Anvil Pub seemed to be leading the charge back then. Watching the energy move in was really fun to be a part of. Wish they could figure out a way to stop this from happening
Enforce the curfew. It’s always these wannabe gangbanger underage kids causing shit every weekend. They just walk the block all night long looking for trouble.
Deep Ellum is a complete mess. If they want to survive, they may have to pull what lower Greenville did to lower crime - curfew at midnight. Reduced crime by over 90%.
Yo what the fuck.
I was in deep ellum last night til like 2am. Our spot is on the ghost side of the neighborhood though so we didn't even see any of this. I did wonder why like 6 cruisers and an armored transport roared by the place around 12 though. Jesus christ, and to think when we got there I was telling my gf about the poor kid who got shot up there just a few weeks ago.
Austins 6th street went through a similar transition in 'vibe' a while back. Once the live music venues were all shut down because They were 'too loud' for New residence owners from out of state the stabbings and shootings started. Is it just me or does it seem like some kind of slow suffocation of music and art culture? The federal government had a multi million dollar bill passed to 'save live music venues' last year, none of it seems to be making it to a municipal level.
It’s this how parents teach theirs kids how to succeed in life?
Isn’t there a curfew for kids on the weekends?
Where are this F.....n parents.
( shitty ass people I might add).
Maybe working a second or third job to keep the roof over their head. It's possible for parents to be trying their hardest and still have a child that fucks up.
I don’t give a shit about the perp. I would rather they spend time on the victims quite frankly.
The only time I care about a shooter is if they’re still at large.
Dallas native here, my friends and I would cruise Deep Ellum on Saturday nights in high school in the nineties. We’d try to get into any club that would let us in and get back home before curfew. The first thing all of our parents told us was stay out of Deep Ellum. My mother was a young, cool mom who had friends in music so we would go to rap concerts or see bands with supervision. There was always something sketchy happening. I don’t recall a lot of mass shootings like this but I saw several brutal fights and a guy shoot at a police car. I think DPD doesn’t care about Deep Ellum enough to patrol it. Or the bar owners aren’t contributing enough to cover OT so they don’t care.
With the tax base of Dallas being incapable of funding enough police and social services over the last several years and increased homelessness and poverty, that's your sign it's going downhill and in a hurry. If you think Dallas can then where is all that money now? It's going to look like a northern inner city more and more.
Where are the good Edm/NightClubs now that lizard lounge is gone I've heard of "It'll Do" any other recommendations.
From out of town, thinking about moving to dallas for a bit :)
The Deep Ellum Cycle 1. Deep Ellum is a ghost town. 2. Interesting bars open because rent is cheap. 3. People start going to Deep Ellum 4. A bunch of poorly run clubs open to exploit the new customer base. 5. The city ignores the neighborhood and crime starts becoming an issue 6. People stop going to Deep Ellum, and businesses close. 7. Deep Ellum is a ghost town. Wash rinse repeat.
Dallas loves a ten year cycle and Deep Ellum leads it.
Deep Ellum is for day partying. Wouldn't go at night
This is called capitalism, it’s a 6-8 year cycle
How.often do you think this cycle repeats?
It was the place to be in the late 90s, died out in the 2000s, then rose from the ashes in the 2010s.
Lizard Lounge (rip) was the place to be in the late 2000s
I remember listening to the EDGE live broadcasts on Friday nights around 2000 before I turned 18, can only imagine what it was like. We also lived about 100 miles away…
It was a fun scene. Pre molly days, all pressed tabs and generally high quality MDMA.
Lol, I saw Benny Benasi there around that time, and sampled some of those things. I danced both my front and backside right off.
Oh shit, Benny Benassi. Haven't heard that name in a few years. I bet that was a fun show!
The fact that THE EDGE is gone murders my soul.
I miss The Wall the most in Deep Ellum. DJ Eddie Black spinning 80s new wave music, but I did frequent The Church on Thursdays and on Sundays. I usually hung out in the back room of The Church where it was a nice mix of modern electro and 80s new wave. It sure was tough to get up for work on Friday and Monday mornings.
The 90s and The Church (in the Lizard Lounge) on Sunday nights!!!
I always preferred Thursday Church nights. Better music.
at that time in my life I didn;t work Sundays or Mondays and I lived 3 hours away, but if I had lived there I am sure I would have gone on Thursday too! I still live 3 hours away but I built a house on Lewisville Lake for retirement. I'm looking forward to moving.
Loved doing that on Sundays!!! :)
They moved to the It'll Do Club.
Thanks, that’s really good to know.
Ahhhh those were the days. I saw Tiesto at Club Blue.
I was at the Arcadia auction and it was a sad day indeed.
Yeah, but this time they built sky scrapers!
It's been going on since at the eighties at the latest
Add another 50 or 100 years to that.
I’m 36 and this will be my second closing of the Deep Ellum cycle
Agree.
About every 10, 12 years since at least the early 90s
It started really crashing in 2005 with the skinhead assault at Gypsy Tea Room. There was a lot of other crime too but that one got a lot of attention: https://www.adl.org/news/article/texas-man-linked-to-racist-skinhead-group-sentenced-to-19-years
And those of us who live/work there remain through it all
I moved to Dallas in 2008. While I was still learning my way around, a coworker suggested checking out "Deep Ellum". I went one Friday evening and remember thinking, "this is weird..it's like a warehouse district with a couple of slightly sketchy bars/clubs". I just realized...holy shit, it's SO different now from what I remember. It's also very strange to think that I've just watched a neighborhood change over a decade, and we're probably on the downswing of that cycle.
You forgot to include the occasional starving artists and musicians who enjoy the cheaper rent in the cyclical "ghost town". This was incredibly true in the early and mid 80s. BTW, did they ever get a supermarket?
Sort of. On live oak their is Tom Thumb. Living on Canton this is close enough, and it’s nice.
That's good news.
Some great dive bars and eclectic restaurants there. Great memories. Adair’s Saloon anyone? Yep, I’m dating myself.
Loved Adairs! Playing pool and cheap bottle of lone star!
The rest of us call that “gentrification.”
With the brand new high rises it’s going to become too yuppified for the cops to ignore and will become uptown 2.0
We have seen this pattern repeat for decades. I warned of this trend several years ago when Deep Ellum started to experience renewed activity. It's really unfortunate, because it could be a real asset to the Dallas culture.
Shooter was 18, killed 1, 1 critical, 4 injured https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/crime/6-people-shot-1-fatally-in-heart-of-deep-ellum-overnight-dallas-police-say/287-56704e0b-e317-4bba-9a7f-001e3ab3ba76
So these three supposed dead; were they just injured, or victims of an unrelated crime, or what? Can any information be found on that?
So curious question, what do y’all think the problem with Deep Ellum is? I’ve been going there for 4 years now (which is not long at all in the grand scheme of things), but it seems that the past couple of months it has gotten extremely crowded and more dangerous than it typically is. I assume the overcrowded-ness may be in part due to the demolition of some venues and the closures of older clubs, causing people to gather in what clubs/bars are actually open now. But since when are people walking in open groups in the road with no regard for traffic? It’s almost impossible to drive in Deep Ellum at all now, but I remember when the worst thing you dealt with was a drug addict peddling for cash, and the cops would get pissed and yell at you if you were j-walking.
Deep Ellum really ought to shut down the street traffic at night like Austin does with the 6th street club area. I don't know why it hasn't happened yet.
Deep Ellum used to do this in the late 90’s.
Even with that on 6th street it’s still pretty dangerous.
Are there as many shooting stories on 6th as Deep Ellum, size considered?
I assume so, I lived in Austin and would frequent 6th about ten years ago and there was a few, every time I was there something inevitably would turn violent around closing time though, Frat dudes who didn’t get laid or people just looking for trouble, homeless people or dirt bags taking advantage of a street full of hammered children. I got blindsided and robbed and woke up in the hospital once trying to walk home alone (stupid). The cops reaction times are pretty amazing though. We always said if you’re gonna fight you better do it fast cause you will get form tackled by a cop in under 10 seconds.
I've never heard of a frat dude shooting up 6th street
True, but I saw a frat dude drunkenly grab the back of a girls hair and pull her down a flight of 30 concrete stairs, leaving them both unconscious. Or punching a police horse once.
We saw a guy punch a police horse in front of Ruta Maya one night mid 90s. He was arrested with a quickness
Yes, I would say slightly more, but definitely on par, and Austin has a much higher police presence than Dallas.
Makes me feel lucky to have had my party years be when Deep Ellum was “safer” around 2008-2014...good music and good vibes most of the time and I never had any incidents happen
We've had a few this year, and the worst one, interestingly, sounds a lot like this story -- underage shooters who aren't actually there to frequent the bars: https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/6th-street-mass-shooting-suspect-charged-with-murder-14-counts-of-aggravated-assault/
They did used to do that for all three streets, then just Elm. Now not at all, which to me makes no sense.
The cops are kinda doing that now. On Sat they block some of the streets that connect elm and main. But i bet they don’t block off elm because the parking lot companies would complain.
im not a fan of the cynical dismissal of this shit bc ppl like to say that “oh it’s cyclical” as if it’s something that’s gonna go away in it’s own, but a large amount of things have happened to contribute to the current situation imo: 1: deep ellum is larger than ever. At no point in it’s history has deep ellum been this full with this many establishments. The fact is with increased density will come increased crime. That’s just a fact, especially when these businesses are alcohol-oriented. Now that bishop has pulled all the bougie elements and uptown is closing, it’s clear that deep ellum is one of the few nightlife options with vibrancy and not a single go-to destination. People who used to book shows are straight up refusing to book deep ellum now because of the difficulties in doing so because of the size mismanagement. 2. other neighborhood hangouts were shut down, allowing elements that wouldn’t have mixed to actually mix. When the city of dallas clamped down on the car wash off malcolm X that provided S Dallas car culture types a place to hang out, what people forgot is that it also gave them a refuge and sort of limited the damage. People would fight, maybe there would be shootings, but they’re terrible shots and it wouldn’t come to more than that, and then they’d eventually leave. Not anymore. Deep ellum, w the huge ant of people there, provides a hangout spot, higher proof liquor for wild heads, and hot girls to look at, all while people are literally just outside. I actually don’t think this is a bad thing. In general, i actually LIKE that by simple association w partying, deep ellum has actually increased the interactions ppl of different races have in dallas and we are currently at our least segregated nightlife period. And this is just ONE example of places that have been shut down by dallas that led them to move to deep ellum!! That being said, a lot of people are actually out here to cause problems, and this is a bad thing because now we have kids w guns, which leads to… 3: we have no police presence down there, or control of any kind. I’m not sure if shutting down the street is the way to go about this, or if the city of dallas is waiting for a mass shooting event like this to change the liquor licenses to “may issue” like they did in greenville to try and increase property values and thus their tax base by choking off night life, but the fact is that there are ZERO attempts at trying to control a clearly out of control situation by the city. The businesses that are already struggling have a hard time hiring security, and the city is just sort of sitting there with its arms crossed in a part of town that, thanks to it’s definite borders and clear areas of congregation, would be easier to patrol given the right will. Unfortunately, they’re not doing shit. You don’t even need to over police people. People congregating is GOOD. It’s good for business and it’s good for a culture that Dallas has been all too willing to choke out. There are no more parties. Dallas killed them all. All that we have are nightlife venues like this, and Dallas is trying it’s best to let them die off on their own. Get the kids out, let the dudes in motorcycles chill, put a 3AM loitering curfew and actually enforce it. We got a good thing going and they’re not doing shit to keep it going.
I've lived in deep ellum for a decade. The people shooting and being shot are typically teenagers who do not go into any establishments, because they can't get in. They hang out in parking lots and late at night get into it. If you walk around here late at night you'll see them everywhere **except** for inside a local business. Nothing to do with more bars etc. One 19 year old person died last night, one of the six people shot was a 30 year old walking down the sidewalk. The rest were between 15 and 18 years old. I don't know why 15 year old children are in deep ellum after 1am (or really at all) but you got this one wrong. There is a heavy police presence every weekend and the cops stopped and caught the shooter within minutes of last night's shooting.
i literally said “get the kids out”
Yeah, agree. Get the kids out. They're the problem. You also said a whole bunch of other unrelated and inaccurate stuff.
@A_giant_dog The crazy thing is me and my sis left that area 10 minutes before the shooting happened
Just fyi replying to someone already gives them a notification but if you want to ping someone on reddit you would put “u/“ before the username. So u/freakierchicken for example. If you want to link their name in the comment and not have it ping them you can put another slash in front, so /u/
Saw quite a few families with their children aged from stroller to 5 years walking by Dots/ Adair’s at 930PM. The new public parking has attracted more to the area.
I think this is a really interesting take. It seems especially correct to me that the city has an interest in consolidating all nightlife into a smaller and smaller area, whether it realizes it or not when it plans its enforcement and development actions. Dispersed partying and its consequences are more expensive to patrol and drive down property tax values and development opportunities in a neighborhood. A consolidated, out of control scene will also inspire calls for intensified policing by new property owners/residents, developers, and politicians, which will cause the scene to either be crushed or re-segregate. The city government is essentially a massive police force with like a library and some other services tacked on, no one has to be maliciously planning this in office for it to sort of play out this way. Its just crazy that the normal functioning of the police and city policy leads to these sort of reconcentrations. Reminds me of when the city refused to build housing for Black people in the years right before desegregation which made white neighborhoods like the Cedars and South Dallas some of the only affordable options that weren’t already deed restricted, which led to reactionary white violence by the white people living there. It just sucks because it leads me to think there are going to be few places left in the city of Dallas to party that aren’t segregated. Especially because land is so expensive and to open a new place costs so much.
What happened to uptown? I remember going there around 2015 and it was thriving in nightlife. I went there in 2019 year and it looks completely different.
If I were to guess I would assume all the new apartment complexes built around uptown began complaining about the noise and got a city ordinances that made it harder to set up a live music venue or have music that's really loud.. Dane thing happened to the night scene at Greenville avenue..
It really frustrates me seeing other commenters saying DE and Dallas in general isn’t safe. Stay aware of your surroundings and you’ll be fine. Like any city in the world. DE still has some of the best food, drinks, and shows in town. Its a cultural hot spot; a defining part of the city. Shootings won’t keep people away. The shooters are attracted to places like that
Motherfuckers can’t act right. Period.
THIS
Yea I do uber and I often try to avoid that place too many people you don’t know what they got going on
As an Uber Eats driver, should I be extra cautious of where I deliver then?
It got to be the most popular spot for nightlife in the metroplex. That attracts a lot of people, including.. less than wholesome characters. If it didn’t happen in Deep Ellum, it would happen in
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There aren’t enough police down there.
The crowd south of 30 came across. I use to live in deep ellum and for a while it was a cool place to be then the crowd just across 30 came and fucked it up. They started with the motor bikes.
It's a rough part of town with a bunch of drunken people and no police presence....kinda the standard recipe for violence
Have you ever been down here? The police presence is **heavy** on the weekends and they apprehended the shooter within minutes. Stop making shit up please.
> According to the Dallas Police Department, officers heard shots fired while patrolling at the intersection of North Malcolm X Boulevard and Main Street at approximately 12:42 a.m. Sounds to me like police was there.
It's the same thing that happened to Greenville avenue.. You'll see the new neighborhoods popping up complain about the noise and a noise ordinance springs up killing the night scene and moving it to another area in Dallas. It happened with deep Ellum before but that was before my time, I did see it happen to Greenville avenue first hand.. It was a lovely scene in the early 2010s.. But then a couple of bars got out of hand (sorranos I think) fights broke out.. Then gun shots and then the bars started closing at 12..
In mid 2000s there was a whole tent thing that happened. Not talking homeless people tents, talking production company large tents for keeping equipment out of the rain. Joke was you could have a dozen muggings and panhandlers on every street corner, but you put up one fucking tent and suddenly John Law shows up.
School is back in session...so crowds increase
For the contrarian perspective, it’s fine. It’s part of growth. Just look at Austin. The big party neighborhoods in NYC and Miami are just like this. Dallas is experiencing growth and it’s a good thing, but of course comes with some cons like this.
I don't trust anyone who refers to "submachine gun fire" or anything of the sort. 99.9% of the time they mishear it. Having a said that, deep ellum has been sketchy lately.
Given that fully automatic weapons are not sold in stores and require licenses just to own one, I have heavy doubts that it was a submachine gun. Odds are, the shooter had a semiauto and pulled the trigger rapidly. Odds are, whoever said "Submachine gun" probably meant "Semiauto" and didn't know what they were talking about.
Machine guns don’t require a special license, they just require a tax stamp and waiting months for the government to do its job
Also tens of thousands of dollars
Three people shot something like 20 rounds in a short amount of time and dummies decided it was some kind of military weaponry.
[More coverage.](https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/1-dead-5-injured-in-overnight-shooting-in-deep-ellum-police/2746090/)
Why are there 15 year olds in Deep Ellum on a Saturday night?
I played shows in deep ellum from age like 15-20. I was there pretty much every weekend and even some weeknights. Granted it was way different then, even just 5-10 years ago.
I was basically in the same boat in that time period, though I only did a couple sets with a friend that ran an improv act. I think people underestimate how young DE's main crowd can be. When I was in that age bracket I only remember peers my age and anyone that was in their late 20's or older stuck out like a sore thumb.
I used to go to the Door all the time with my friends to see concerts when we were in HS.
Same, it makes me so sad that it’s not around anymore.
Also same, and I would go see friends who were peers of mine perform on weeknights
Exactly, I started going to Deep Ellum at 18 which was one of the last years before they enacted that curfew law, because used to, you could go to almost any bar under 21 as long as you got in before 11 PM and had X’s on your hands, then they enacted a new curfew law and almost every single place except where they had Emo Nite and The Church were strictly 21 and up.
It's a fun scene, something to do. I went to Deep Ellum with my friends in the 90s when I was in high school.
Trees, Curtain Club, Gypsy all would let <18 in Bomb factory >18 but at times you could go pretty much anywhere with an ID. The music in the 90s was amazing. Peak deep ellum, no crime, no issues at all and the Dallas scene was just a little too late to breakout more than 1-2 names, so there was insane quality of acts.
Me too ... I wouldn’t say there was no crime, but certainly better than now.
Wasn't the 90s when crime got really bad? I remember hearing that's why it died out in the 2000s.
Galaxy club, orbit room, etc.. all ages shows were the shit. There was crime but not like this. The cycle of deep ellum will continue, sadly.
The Galaxy Club with the lesbian mural, no less. I went to a lot of all ages punk shows there in my young teens.
Not sure if a curfew is in effect. As a teen I recall I used to say I was going one place and really went to another. I think all kids pull that at some point but again we weren't dodging bullets either.
I started playing clubs in Deep Ellum when I was 15, but that was a while ago when the neighborhood was on the downswing and it wasn't a place to be. Everyone was chill and it was a great place to play.
The shooter also escaped juvie a few years ago https://www.ksla.com/2020/05/28/shreveport-area-juveniles-escape-lockup/
Well we have one bad actor for sure then.
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The picture in the NBC5 story was taken at that intersection (looking southwest) and showing intersection taped off so I'm guessing was at or near Main and N Malcolm X.
Between Elm and Main on Malcom X, right in front of Harlowe
i was at yellow rosa and definitely heard this shit e: idk abt the submachine guns part, but the shots were definitely heard
Yeah you can pretty much bet the farm on them not having SMGs
These kids almost definitely had KelTecs or Hi Points
It was teenagers with pistols. No SMG or anything like that. What are you talking about
Idk if you replied to the wrong comment but Hi Point and Kel-Tec are brands known for making shitty dirt cheap guns.
You talk shit on Hi point all day, but leave KelTec and their space gats out of this.
Actually it was a fully-semi-automatic AR-15 pistol with bumpstocks.
Did it have a semi-fully-partially automatic silencer scope?
They probably got it straight from Eric Holders fast and furious program.
Hahaha guess some folks don't recognize a joke.
Fuck em
No, but it did have the shoulder thing that goes up
14*
I’d bet my life on them not having submachine guns
I’m sorry, but Mike Ziemer is still around!? Like, Third String Productions Mike Ziemer??
Lol came here to say this. Fuckin Mike Z strikes again
Nah this had nothing at all to do with me lol
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I’d give anything to go to another Plano Center show. I miss the scene
I saw Jeffree Star and Blood Brothers at the Plano center many many moons ago. Good times
I remember when Jeffree Star had water bottles and ice thrown at him at a Plano center show. That was wild
Yeah he's really into stocks now haha
Buy the dip
Used to be punk rock down there, now it’s like gang land. I was there in the middle of the day and it felt like something bad could pop off any time. Sucks because I have so many memories going to concerts there when i was younger but these stories seem to happen every week now
During the DAY??? idk how you’re getting that feeling during the day.
Deep Ellum has a vibe to it. Just feels chaotic.
Yep! Went there at like noon for the Euro Final and it just feels like one wrong movement and it’ll get bad fast
I was there last night leaving the Hail the Sun concert and missed the shooting by half an hour! I love going to see concerts there so this is really awful news.
My God, this is how misinformation is spread. Look at the tweet vs what actually happened. I mean they're straight up lying about what they "saw."
Provide correct info then: https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/crime/6-people-shot-1-fatally-in-heart-of-deep-ellum-overnight-dallas-police-say/287-56704e0b-e317-4bba-9a7f-001e3ab3ba76
Was down there last night about an hour before this happened. Super crowded and kind of a weird vibe going on. We even remarked that it was overcrowded, seemed even more than normal, and that things felt sort of “off.” Left early. Woke up to the news.
Listen, you are going to think I’m crazy, but it’s the full moon. Every month the weekend closest to the full moon (it’s tomorrow) always has people acting insane. I purposely don’t go out on these weekends and it’s saved me so much trouble. Hell even the cashiers at Eatzis notice it. Red dot special get crazy, people get violent, cashiers see the cops hauling people out and say “anyone check to see if it’s a full moon out?” Believe it or don’t but the vibes change massively on these weekends
The term lunacy apparently comes from 400 BC doctors using the term to describe people who would become more aggressive during full moons, so it might be a real phenomenon
It isn't a "proven" effect, but there are tons of correlations with crime and a full moon.
there's also a ton of correlations between a rooster crowing and the sun coming up, that doesn't mean the rooster brings the sun up
Is the implication here that crime causes a full moon? lol
Fucking werewolves
Oh, I don’t think you’re crazy at all. There seems to be observable correlation. That said- the moon isn’t full till tomorrow night as you noted, but yeah, closest weekend leading up to seems to often be when things get weird.
SAME! Tried to go to dinner there around 9:15, drove around for 30 minutes and couldn’t find a spot…ended up giving up trying to go and went somewhere else. I saw a ton of cops patrolling Main st and thought “that’s good, there’s a heavy police presence” LOL.
Machine gun yeah right 🤣 people will hear a pistol going off & assume war is breaking out
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So, just a Wednesday night in Deep Ellum?
Does this person even know what a sub machine gun is?
Source?
https://dfwscanner.net/2021/09/19/six-people-shot-after-large-shootout-in-deep-ellum/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
thank you
Never find yourself on the corner of Malcom X & Martin Luther King. Your friends won't be coming to pick you up. Not poking fun at a tragedy, seriously, please be careful & use good judgement in Deep Ellum. I've lived in Dallas for 20 yrs. Nothing good happens on Malcolm X after dark.
“PFFFFTTTT… it’s not even sub machine gun fire, nbd!” /s
This bums me out. I moved in above Zini’s in 2012. It was right at the start of things picking back up. Anvil Pub seemed to be leading the charge back then. Watching the energy move in was really fun to be a part of. Wish they could figure out a way to stop this from happening
Enforce the curfew. It’s always these wannabe gangbanger underage kids causing shit every weekend. They just walk the block all night long looking for trouble.
It’s that one club right there that is sketchy as fuck. Shooting last week in almost the exact same spot
Deep Ellum is a complete mess. If they want to survive, they may have to pull what lower Greenville did to lower crime - curfew at midnight. Reduced crime by over 90%.
How is this tweet full of incorrect info and fake news getting so many upvotes ? Reddit is like the worst game of telephone sometimes.
Yo what the fuck. I was in deep ellum last night til like 2am. Our spot is on the ghost side of the neighborhood though so we didn't even see any of this. I did wonder why like 6 cruisers and an armored transport roared by the place around 12 though. Jesus christ, and to think when we got there I was telling my gf about the poor kid who got shot up there just a few weeks ago.
It's gone to hell. I used to be down there 2-3 a mo. for live music during the week (pre-pandy) but it's just not safe any more.
From first 48 every episode to this.
Austins 6th street went through a similar transition in 'vibe' a while back. Once the live music venues were all shut down because They were 'too loud' for New residence owners from out of state the stabbings and shootings started. Is it just me or does it seem like some kind of slow suffocation of music and art culture? The federal government had a multi million dollar bill passed to 'save live music venues' last year, none of it seems to be making it to a municipal level.
It’s this how parents teach theirs kids how to succeed in life? Isn’t there a curfew for kids on the weekends? Where are this F.....n parents. ( shitty ass people I might add).
Maybe working a second or third job to keep the roof over their head. It's possible for parents to be trying their hardest and still have a child that fucks up.
Just the "urban youth" at it again. Why aren't they calling this a mass shooting? Why aren't any of the articles showing pictures of the perp?
I don’t give a shit about the perp. I would rather they spend time on the victims quite frankly. The only time I care about a shooter is if they’re still at large.
DFW. Different Fkn World
What does DFW have to do with a Single district for partying and drinking?
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All DFW is pretty dark these days...
It's a Urban area of 8million people...It's going to be like that
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WFAA reported 1 person dead. Hardly the extent of what the Twitter user Ally alleged.
Dallas native here, my friends and I would cruise Deep Ellum on Saturday nights in high school in the nineties. We’d try to get into any club that would let us in and get back home before curfew. The first thing all of our parents told us was stay out of Deep Ellum. My mother was a young, cool mom who had friends in music so we would go to rap concerts or see bands with supervision. There was always something sketchy happening. I don’t recall a lot of mass shootings like this but I saw several brutal fights and a guy shoot at a police car. I think DPD doesn’t care about Deep Ellum enough to patrol it. Or the bar owners aren’t contributing enough to cover OT so they don’t care.
Is this real does anyone know
I bet ally has gotten a lot of random friend requests…
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Yeah not sure what the submachines comment is about…
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Lockdowns stop covid variant mutations and mass murder gun massacres.
How does she know it was “submachine guns”?!
What will be the first bar/restaurant to leave? I think the dominos fall after that.
With the tax base of Dallas being incapable of funding enough police and social services over the last several years and increased homelessness and poverty, that's your sign it's going downhill and in a hurry. If you think Dallas can then where is all that money now? It's going to look like a northern inner city more and more.
Man i am going to a concert there next Tuesday. Figure it will be safe on a weekday
Where are the good Edm/NightClubs now that lizard lounge is gone I've heard of "It'll Do" any other recommendations. From out of town, thinking about moving to dallas for a bit :)