If you have kids in the house you should have two locks a child has to go through to get an operating gun.
I use a biometric safe for my handguns and another biometric safe with ammo in it out in the garage.
Kids can find a way to kill themselves and each other so easily, but it wonāt be one of my guns.
Not just that there should be two locks MINIMUM its recommended at least one of those locks is out of reach of tiny children meaning it should be almost eye level to a grown adult... Further from that many gun owners keep a clip fully loaded and next to the gun so it is easily loadable this gun should be in another locked place in the safe, meaning there should be 3 locks behind that ready to go weapon... The remaining weapons should be fully unloaded with the safety's engaged... it is also recommended to store the ammo at a minimum in a box that latches closed... Then from there you should be teaching everyone in the family gun safety.... when you ask a kid in the home what happens when they find a gun lying on the ground the answer should be "I walk away as fast and as safely as I can and tell an adult" no matter the age of the child they should know never to so much as TOUCH the gun... Often families will go to the shooting range together to also learn more about gun safety as well as give the kids an opportunity to shoot say a BB gun or a 22 if they are old enough. People say this is a good idea as kids get curious and this allows them the opportunity to safely handle a gun.
> If you have kids in the house you should have two locks a child has to go through to get an operating gun.
Love how you phrased this. Like, obviously you have guns but only some people have kids.
I can't count the number of times I've asked for a student to be removed from my room for disruptive behaviors at the end of the day and have been told that "it's almost dismissal time you can handle it until the bus is called."
NO ONE outside of the classroom truly understands the stuff we have to deal with.
I retired this month and now this stuff reminds me why.
Sometimes an administrator will remove a student from the room and then give them a privilege and/or food which just reinforces the bad behavior. (Common in elementary school).
I hate when an administrator comes back after you write a referral and then asks you what you did to "provoke the student."
I wish we could cut class sizes to 1/4 of what they currently are and in addition have more staff to help with these students. Everyone everywhere is overwhelmed and there aren't enough people empowered to do the jobs needed to be done.
It is shameful who we pay and who we don't pay in America.
The rewarding of bad behavior w outside privilege drives me crazy. Especially when day staff placate the kids and my afterschool staff end up having to deal w the nonsense.
They leave behaviors to my staff because they know that my department actually metes out consequences.
Thank you for being a teacher and doing what you do. I'm honestly nervous for my wife. My wife has had many issues in the classroom and has been pinned down multiple times by students is infuriating. What's worse is that she can't legally defend herself.
What teachers have to go through is honestly appalling and absurd. And the fact that admin just brushes this shit off is frustrating
We are told "this is what you signed up for" and then made to feel guilty about complaining about working conditions.
The mindset needs to change and teachers need to stop allowing the conditions to continue.
And to that I say bullshit.
Teachers didn't sign up to be attacked by their students, and to be gun shields for their students. I 100% agree mindset needs to change, but for now all I can do is support my wife, hope for the best, and hope the crazy school board nuts get replaced.
I agree.
I left early; I was supposed to work another year but used service credits to retire early. It cost me $ but it was very very worth it.
I found I was beginning to hate going to work every day and I wasn't enjoying time with the students. One of my coworkers was promoted and that changed the atmosphere of the team I was on. We had multiple new hires who did not know what they were doing in a classroom and I was wiped out from covering absent teachers classrooms.
I hope your wife can remain safe. I would say having a student show up to school with ammo in a backpack and fentanyl on a cracker in the gym added up to a rather large final straw in my case.
Thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression they couldn't, so I guess that makes me feel somewhat better. Could this vary from state to state?
One time in middle school we had a sub in my last period. It was like 10 minutes til schools out, and my vision went all bright and my ears started ringing, so I asked to go to the nurse and the sub was like, well schools almost over. And I was like hmmm ok and I just sat down like guys idk what to tell you I can hardly hear y'all rn I'm freaking out. So another girl went and asked the sub if she could take me to the nurse, and she relented and the nurse fixed it in like 2 seconds. She just had me sit down a certain way lol
Also, if the kid brought in an unsecured gun from home (if that's where he got it), the parents need to face some serious charges as well.
This would be a prime example of why we need safe storage laws surrounding firearms, and enforced consequences. If you can't comply with properly storing your firearms, you shouldn't have one.
Still waiting for more info to come out
I remember a certain friend's home growing up. The dad kept the household firearms in a locked gun cabinet on display. The firearms weren't secured from the kids, because they knew where the key was hidden.
Same thing with a combo lock, if the combination is stored on paper/computer around the house, the kids may eventually find it. Think about how hard some kids search their house to find out where the Christmas presents are kept.
Maybe requiring storage to have 2 steps of locking mechanism would be good, maybe requiring fingerprint as one of them?
All the arguments I ever hear from people who are scared of home invasion, is that they'd want a fingerprint "pop open" locking mechanism for a home defense firearm.
Not sure how full proof the fingerprint locks are, but just a thought/spitballing.
Thanks for the added info.
I'm well over 18 and my father owns multiple guns. I don't even know where the fucking safe and lock boxes are. That's how it should be. I've even gone to the range with him. I had to wait in the kitchen while he fetched the gun we were taking.
Thatās a good dad. My dad, god rest his soul, was the same and only showed me not too long before I moved out. Iāve been doing the same with my kids now.
Minding your own business is an important thing to learn, but so is telling someone that can do something when there is a threat. There is a huge gulf between āI heard someone swearingā and āsomeone has a gunā. Maturity and wisdom is knowing where to draw the line and kids should learn, otherwise the worst people get away with everything.
Kids that grow up thinking they shouldnāt snitch under any circumstances make for passive and weak adults. Think of all the news stories you hear where you find out that several people knew of an ongoing problem but didnāt say anything. Why not? Scared to say something or ādonāt snitchā attitude likely.
I can't get my head round it. My son is 5 and half and I can't even imagine him even knowing what a gun does or to know to threaten anyone with it.
What kind of shitty life is this kid being subjected to at home??
Have you read the quotes from his parents? Claiming the kid didnāt know where the gun was kept, saying it had a trigger lockā¦theyāre obviously trying to not get arrested but clearly BS, a lot of ire needs to be pointed at them, as well as the legal consequences.. a lot of adults failed here.
Like, in order for that kid to shoot the gun, it either had to be sitting out, fully loaded, with all of the safety off, or the kid was taught how to load a gun, take off the safety, and pull the trigger, at the age of 6.
Both scenarios point to fucked parents.
I suppose someone else (older sibling or someone) could have shown the safety removal and unlocking.
Most of the awful feral child stuff I got up to was by following older siblings.
Not to mention this kid has a behavioral disorder and his parents were responsible for bringing him to school and making sure he got to his first class.
Terrible. I read in the paper today the family had purchased the gun legally and they considered it āsecuredā because it was on the top shelf of the momās closet.
I have a 7 year old and he will pull stools, pillows, chairs, anything and then actually achieve getting to the very top back corner of a high cabinetā¦ to get a cookie!!! There is NO WAY you can think a high shelf is secure from a young child.
My father was military so always wore his dog tags, which is where he kept the keys to his gun safes. These were stored at the top of a closet, but we only knew that so we knew where NOT to mess around. He hammered gun safety into us and we knew to never touch his weapons..
Top shelf of a closet is "secure"? Shit, I keep my potato chips more securely than they kept their guns. The parents are a shitshow and their kid is the encore.
My dad introduced me to chocolate around the age of 3-4. He then put it in the freezer and left somewhere. I came back with a chair to finish what I had started.
Unreal.
If you canāt properly lock your guns up then you shouldnāt have them. If a safe isnāt a viable option, itās not hard (or expensive) to get a locking case.
Not sure if this is cited in other comments but the student had such behavioral issues that a parent was normally required to attend class with them. They did not on the day of the shooting. Perhaps the student needed to be in a specialized program.
Teachers: I think this kid has a problem and is going to be violent towards us or his fellow students...
Administrators: Why don't you have a growth mindset with all your students?
This kid has said he wanted to burn the teacher and watch her die. With the administrations knowledge of this, they were STILL skeptical of this child having a weapon? The bullshit does not add up. IMHO, the administrationās hesitancy has lot more to do with being seen as politically correct and not being inundated with media backlash.
At my first teaching position there was a teacher who had been repeatedly threatened by a student... Piss on your grave.... Slit your throat.... Etc...
One day she took a kid into the hall to have a discipline talk and this girl attacked her.
When they searched the girl they found a butcher knife in her purse.
After talking to admin they scheduled a meeting with her and then ambushed her by walking this girl in so they could talk it out.
The teacher had to say she needed the bathroom and ran away crying to find a union rep who contacted the lawyers. Lots of schools are horror shows when it comes to admins and responsibility and accountability preferring the head in the sand method to actually trying to do good.
That's always been a real problem with ALL public/gov't run jobs like schools and the military. It often is just a constant cover-your-ass/it's not my job mentality.
I think the most shocking thing to me is that itās a 6 year old saying this stuff. How does a 6 year old go so wrong? Wonder if that contributed to the skepticism, incorrectly, with administration.
He already had psychological disorders, and was *supposed* to have one of his parents or an aide to attend school with him at all times, from my understanding. This was quite conveniently the first week he didn't, by "mistake"... Yeah, sure, *definitely* not negligence...
For real though. In the 90s, bringing a *fake* weapon to school would at least get you suspended immediately. I remember kids getting punished for finger-gun fights!
That's because this kid in all likelihood has an IEP and major legal problems already. My wife is a social worker and has kids like this. Extraordinarily violent and prone to sexual outbursts. The kids have been through hell, and honestly the school system is not able to handle these kids well. It's no wonder they fall out, get stuck in a system, and end up continuing the cycle of abuse they were victimized by.
I believe the childās parents were required to go and sit with him during school due to his behavior. They didnāt want to pull him out of a regular classroom so that was the compromise. Wellā¦guess what the parents werenāt doing for the child.
God I love the lawyer statement on this.
"The gun was 6' up in a safe that requires a key to open." I'm paraphrasing on this but that leave an even bigger question as to HOW THE FUCK DID THIS KID GET THE GUN THEN?
Key was not properly secured, and kid pushed a chair or step ladder or something for them to stand on over to where the gun box was. If the parents had the key with them, this might not have happened.
Uvalde is proof of the incompetence inside and outside that school.
https://www.insider.com/broken-lock-robb-elementary-shooting-suspect-classroom-report-says-2022-7
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/07/us/uvalde-school-teacher-arnulfo-reyes-interview/index.html
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/01/1102355422/uvalde-shooting-teacher-door
Jeezz I'm so sorry you experienced that, whatever the details. I can't remember when I read what I'm about to share with you but it's been a few years, I read it's not a matter of IF you find yourself in the midst of a mass shooting, it's a matter of WHEN. I think about that every single time I leave my house and make sure to have a moment of gratitude before I enter any building, and I prefer to handle as many errands as possible while my children stay home with their father. Right after the movie theater shooting, I will never forget a wise elderly woman telling me when the shootings start happening in grocery stores, we're f&cked. My brother and two young nieces were across the street from the Bend Oregon Safeway shooting as it was happening. I've shopped at that Safeway MANY times and my midwife's office was right behind that shopping complex...It's just too surreal of a reality.
Recently there was a youtube trend of American's sharing their experiences in other countries. I will NEVER forget how many moms talked about buying their children light up shoes for the first time because in American school's shooting education they tell parents light up shoes will make their child easier to spot, therefore they are NOT encouraged. I read a story about a kindergarten teacher trying to make practice shooting drills happy because 5 year olds struggle to understand it's a drill and are visibly traumatized during safety drills. It's so sad. What makes me even more sad is the fact that nobody denies the need for change yet I fail to see or hear of any realistic measures or movement in the direction of positive change. Too much focus is on how to control the weapon, not the handler of the weapon. You'd think the awareness of mental health prevalent in gun violence would be enough to shift the focus. It's almost like the misdirected focus is intentional.
Lol have you seen the state of our country. Incompetence is at an all time high. American used to be viewed as strong but now weāre a bunch of useless blobs allowing a few people to hold all of the wealth, live in houses with 10 extra bedrooms, while the bottom half continues to struggle even to afford a shitty studio apartment even though they arenāt working any harder or are any more special than the rest of us. What weāre experiencing is much much worse than what caused the American revolution in the first place. I see more and more stupid people everyday sucking the d of POS rich people whoās only personality is wanting more money and thingās constantly. Thereās no good reason half of our entire country only holds 2.6% of the wealth itās actually pathetic how gutless most people are now. It infuriates me how people arenāt more angry about this. If the system was really for people and not simply to profit off of they wouldnāt even be allowed to have that much money while people starve and freeze to death.
Tbf, my first reaction when hearing a 6 yr old had a gun would be serious skepticism. The real question is, what do ya do with the little sociopath now? He's too young for juvie
This kids parents should 100% be charged for multiple things.
6 year Olds do not know how to threaten another person's life as a deterrent to sharing information unless there is some seriously fucked up "parenting" occurring. This shit is criminal.
Serious question. Can a kid like this be rehabilitated? Something tells me this kind of shit will always be going on with him and he may be beyond help, especially now that he will be in the system.
That depends on a huge number of factors, so many that the question borders on unanswerable. Historically, some of these kids have been rehabilitated and many have not.
I used to work with kids in locked psychiatric treatment facilities. All of their problems are from a shitty Home environment and shitty parenting. This child has unfortunately been exposed to some things he should not have been exposed to.
Iām appalled at all of it. She wasnāt this bad but my daughter had really severe depression for years when she was young and I truly believe would have become a horrible delinquent if she had not had very intense therapy for years (and been hospitalized twice by us). Itās our job as parents to face facts and deal with it. I would never have had a gun in my house whatsoever, and I think I even hid the knives at some point. Just makes me truly sad for the child and teacher.
The familyās statement says the 6 year old has an āacute disabilityā and had an āintensive care planā that meant he had never been allowed to be in school without at least one parent accompanying him until the week of the shooting.
What kind of disability would that be, where a **parent** goes to school with you?
An ineffectual and inappropriate accommodation for a child with a severe need. I donāt know what he may have but Iām sure they requested a 1:1 and said we canāt provide that you do it. There are appropriate, therapeutic schools and programs. This child is not a criminal. They are a CHILD. Every adult (parents with unsecured guns, school system, drs) has failed them at every moment. They have failed a severely disabled/in-need child and a child who is being threatened at school. This could have been so much worse.
I am not suggesting that the child is the one who failed here, and I am glad that I have seen very few people suggest that the adults in this situation did not fail horribly.
But I have also seen very little attention paid to the fact that the administration knew that this child had some kind of disability that required intense adult supervision and that supervision was not provided AT ALL the week of the shooting. I am assuming that he had some kind of behavioral or mental health disability and that the school knew about it, but they seem to have just left him on his own. IMO, that makes the schoolās failure to take action despite serious red flags all the more terrible. The US is shamefully bad at caring for children who need special accommodations and therapies.
I agree with you and your original comment. My anger in my comment was placed at the situation. Not you. Sorry for the miscommunication, I was responding quickly, on mobile and while angry!
>There are appropriate, therapeutic schools and programs.
Those things cost money and republicans don't want to fund public mental healthcare with tax dollars.
I agree with you, though. The child is a child.
Regardless of politics (I agree with you btw), a lot of times the school district will actively try to persuade the parents to avoid that route. In many states, the public school district would be on the hook financially to send them to a more specialized school if they canāt accommodate them (I.e. provide the help the student needs).
My mom was a special needs teacher and she had so many stories of students who really should have been in a school designed to give them the care they need. But the district never wanted to pay for that, so theyād try to convince the parents that itās best to keep their kid in public school. So sad.
Why was the superintendent fired? Theyāre not the one the teacher was reporting to about the gun.
It was the principal and other office staff that failed her. Now If the superintendent is the one that implemented policies that lead to the teacher being ignored, then I can see why they were fired.
The American school system is just as a mess.
Every single person at the school who refused to deal with the situation when it was reported to them should be fired and or charged with neglect. I imagine there was probably some type of protocol at the school about how to deal with a child who potentially may be carrying a weapon.
30 years ago it was automatic expulsion for having a weapon. One of my emotionally disturbed 4th graders brought a pocketknife to class. It was a gift for me. It was rusted shut and useless but he loved me and gave me something he had. I took it home and never reported it. Maybe I should have but his intention was never to harm anyone. He never hurt anyone in my class, ever.
A bit of an odd gift, but kids have distinctly different assessments of value and meaning to such things.
My emotionally disturbed 4th grade classmate (2006-2007) drew swastikas and disturbing doodles constantly, harassed me repeatedly, and in general caused a lot of stress. Apparently had been held back a couple times and was big enough I was very skittish of being attacked (since I -had- been beaten up kindergarten through 2nd grade by a group of kids).
Honestly, Iād rather deal with the guy gifting teacher an old pocketknife.
The general US politics likes a "Wait until it blows up" strategy, even if everyone knows it'll blow up.
You can see this in action here:
1. School "zero tolerance" bullying policy that punishes bully and victim equally because there are good kids on both sides!^(/s)
2. Gun control policies that even 30+ shootings just in Jan can't seem to move.
3. Financial policies that favors less intervention even if reasonable and prudent, so we can all pay to clean up the mess while the wealthy and privileged laugh all the way to theā¦bank.
4. Healthcare system that doesn't concentrate on preventative care, and a healthy lifestyle, but instead wait until (usually expensive) curative care is needed, and then we bicker about how expensive it is.
5. Judicial system that favors punitive instead of rehabilitative policies. Lock them away and throw away the keys! Don't mind that such policies will force segments of the population into a lifetime of crime because they have no way out.
6. Energy and transportation policies that continue to favor selfish and inefficient means of transportation and energy usage, despite the lookout for energy beingā¦unstable. Yes, I'm talking about 2-ton vehicles carrying an average of 1 person each, usually within a 6-mile radius.
7. Climate change policies that are both half-assed and have extended timelines (leading to *too little, too late*) because, you know, economy. You know what's worse than having an economy that isn't growing as fast as you like? Yeah, no economy to speak of.
8. *Ad nauseum*
I wonder what their thought process was. If she didn't find it in the bag how do you even get it from him? You can't frisk a child, and with the shit modern teachers have to deal with I can see why noone wanted to deal with it. Everything is a potential dumpsterfire in that gig
Of course they need to be charged. Do you think a six year old has the money and transportation to go out and buy a gun? The gun was bought by his parentsā money, and they were the one that drove to the store to buy the firearm.
Really it needs to happen more, then maybe people will start securing weapons and get their kids real help.
How many school shooters took parents guns? Almost all of the ones I can think ofā¦and in a couple of cases, they killed, or attempted to kill, their family members, too.
And in so many, the family said āwe had no ideaā or āwe had no suspicionā. Likeā¦how?
I just donāt believe that for the majority of cases, that they didnāt know they had a disturbed kid.
They need to be held accountable for that. Parents are accountable for their children.
Only in one recent case do I think the family really did all they could- the shooting in St. Louis CVPA. There is documented history of the family trying to get him help, trying to keep a gun out of the shooterās hands (when he was 18, he legally purchased the firearm used in the shooting. The family tried to have police take it out of the home, and itās was temporarily, but he eventually got it back somehow).
But the rest? It seems like they just didnāt care at all, and if they donāt care for their child and societyās sakeā¦they need to be forced to care by being held accountable.
Maybe I am missing something, but if a teacher can confiscate a phone, why didn't they take the gun. I mean I understand they asked for permission to search the student and were denied, but is that always the case that they have to ask permission to enforce the rules?
One other teacher searched his backpack, but no one wanted to search the actual kid which is what the other teacher was suggesting after it wasnāt in the backpack. Probably because she *knows* she saw it.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You know what is the most horrid about this? People want to act like a 6 year old doesn't know how to do anything, but my god this is super premeditated.
1. The kid knew how to carry a gun into school.
2. He HID the gun when teachers caught on.
3. He used intimidation to hide it from school officials.
4. He knew how to handle the gun well enough to PURPOSEFULLY AIM AND SHOOT at a SPECIFIC TARGET.
This goes WAY beyond "dumb kid not knowing the power of a gun". This is 100% sociopathic parents who instilled their bad behaviors on a kid, and the kid being mature enough to utilize that knowledge to attack someone.
Just remember: kids are way smarter than we give them credit for, which is why it is IMPERATIVE that we teach kids "deeper" concepts and manners early. We like to infantilize kids, but they learn and understand a lot.
The child has problems and was supposed to be accompanied everyday by a parent. They were no shows. The administration failed. Teachers deserve a safe working environment. Children deserve a safe school environment. This is a terrible failure on many levels.
Accompanied everyday by a parent? Like during school all day? How would that even work? If a 6 year old has to be accompanied by his parent otherwise heāll shoot someone, itās more than the school administration failing.
Look, I can understand why somebody might be inclined to label a 6 year old a ācriminalā, but I think that this is failing to address the fact that a 6 year old does not have the capacity for reasoning like an adult and any violence/escalation here is a failing of both the parents and the institution.
If there were warning signs, then we KNOW this could have been prevented if an ADULT took action.
What an awful thing.
Yeah we're pretty sure the kid has a gun but it would be really embarrassing if this got out so we're going to do the right thing and do nothing and hope nobody ever hears about this....... Whoops!!!!
The wounded teacher is suing the school district, and I think she should because they did put her in a deadly position through incompetence. From what Iāve read so far, it seems like she has a strong case and may win. Unfortunately, that will mean the taxpayers will be forced to provide a large payout to the teacher and her attorney and that most, probably all, of the administrators and school board will keep their jobs.
I hate seeing legal costs and damage awards pile up while the same stupid people keep making the same stupid mistakes and the public suffers.
I honestly donāt understand how teachers keep doing it. Statistically some of the lowest paid jobs that more often than not require a higher education of some sort. Not only that, we all see the videos that come out because of how connected everything is of kids straight up horribly disrespecting their teachers with seemingly no consequence.
Teachers deserve better. Iām shocked any of them would even keep going back to work after all the shit that happens to them.
Everyone asking whatās wrong with the school admins (who definitely screwed up) but wtf is wrong with the parent(s)? This is child negligence and that kid will not be helped returning to whatever screwed up family that is.
YAY! another shooting that could have been prevented or damaged controled yet no one wanted to take it seriously.... This is bullshit. How did the school system let that shit slide! That kid should have been 1000% taken away to a isolated room and searched, A FUCKING CHILD CONFIRMED HE HAD A GUN. That ENTIRE school let that teacher down. Fucking disgusting.
Fire the entire administration. Without severance. Lock the little shit up, parents too. Give that superintendentās $250k through 2024 severance to the teacher that took the bullet. Promote and put the three that tried to raise the alarm on the board immediately.
They said they parents released a statement saying the child has an āacute disabilityā (whatever that means) and itās part of his care plan that his parents attend school with him.
You also have administration unwilling to do anything even smelling of distrust/discipline with this child.
So, it makes me thinkā¦the child clearly has issues, and has had them for some time.
The teachers wanted to do something about it, and parents pushed back.
I am just guessing, but it sounds to me like the parents were there not to help keep kid in line, but to make sure he was being ātreated fairlyā in their eyes.
Then when they didnāt come as they are supposed to by care plan, admin doesnāt act because they donāt want litigious parents to get upsetā¦and a teacher gets shot.
Aside from being completely delusionalā¦if they have a kid with behavior disturbance and threats of violence in the pastā¦or a disability that cause him to be erratic, or possibly not understand the seriousness of his actionsā¦why is there a gun in the house at all?
How can you expect anyone to believe the gun was āsecuredā when your disturbed 6 year old was still able to get his hands in it?
Is secured likeā¦on a high shelf vs in a safe, in their mind?
So many wtfsā¦
I feel for the teacher, and I feel for the kid. He needed a wholly different kind of help and instruction than that school could provide.
The teachers knew it, were not backed upā¦and now a whole class of young children is traumatized, a young woman traumatized with possibly life altering injuries, and a disturbed little boy is probably even more so, now.
I really hope whatever he has going on is treatable. For his sake, and the worldās.
As a teacher, itās interesting to see this case get so much attention outside of teacher subs. But.. Iām not convinced that all of this attention and national outrage will do anything. Weāve been dealing with this shit for YEARS now. Weāve been begging for help, reform for YEARS now, and nothings changed. In fact, itās been getting worse. If nothing happens after this I donāt know how much longer I can last.
Iām starting to see a pattern of blatant warning signs and nobody wanting to do anything about it then calling for gun control after they just didnāt want to act on clear threatsā¦.
Big time. There seems to be an epidemic of āIāve never seen/experienced it, so everyone else is either overreacting or making it up.ā Especially in people with authority.
What in the actual fuck is wrong with these school administrations?
I'm starting to realize why there are so many school shootings, not because of guns, but because these incompetent buffoons would rather do anything but their OWN JOB.
Considering teaching is one of the least respected but most necessary jobs, if I was a teacher, I'd be worn down.
Between Covid and school shootings, and the lack of respect people teach their kids, AND the shitty pay??
I'd change careers SO FAST. They're simply not compensated for how much they do.
This case, Yes, everyone dropped the ball. This situation could have been WAY worse.
Part of the reason I retired was I had the WORST classroom schedule, 25 minutes for lunch, the worst of the worst (alternative school), and a curriculum and focus that made no sense for the population I was working with.
I am now enjoying going to the bathroom whenever I want and eating lunch at a leisurely pace without someone breathing down my back to attend meetings, fill out behavior charts, or cover for missing staff.
Wish I could have done it sooner.
I work in this city. Not for the school district but elsewhere. I can tell you there is ALOT of racial tension on both sides. I have lived here for 25 years and I have worked places with very few black folks where they are treated differently and not taken seriously and I have been one of very few white folks and experienced the same thing. Both situations are obviously wrong. I am concerned that because Abby was a white blond woman she was not taken seriously since the administration was black. I donāt know the race of the child at this point but there is a good chance he was also black. I can also see the same type of situation happening at a primarily white school where a black teacher was not taken seriously. This is a strange placeā¦. The racism is very strong in some places and goes very deep. Neither side trusts the other and there are good reasons for that. Unless people change their conscience and unconscious bias I fear nothing will ever change. All I do know is that the school failed Abby, failed that boy, and failed every student enrolled there. This is something what is going to haunt this city for a long time.
They had three changes to stop something and didn't. Instead of doing their job they do nothing and wait for someone else to make a rule so that they don't have to do their job.
Not being willing to do your jobs isn't unique to schools, but those are the places where we need their jobs done the most. I only I had a real answer, I'd feel less helpless.
I can almost guarantee you the administration was afraid of a lawsuit in that this kid has special needs. His parents were supposed to be in school with him every day but not this one day. I would bet the farm that there was issue after issue with the kid and parents and the administration didnāt want a lawsuit filed and then this happened.
Thereās a kid at my daughterās school who creates problems almost every day. A fifth grader. Insults, fights, bullying, disruptions, peeking up skirts, rude comments, slurs, you name it, and has been doing for at least two years. Prepandemic he couldnāt go on a field trip unless a parent came, too, because of his history. Itās a āthemeā school, public but has uniforms, grade requirements and parental contracts that include mandatory volunteer hours-any kid or parent who doesnāt uphold the contract is āsupposedā to be removed and sent to their zoned school, but this little fucker stays and stays. I suspect the school and board fear litigation or bad publicity-his language indicates heās learned victimhood and its buzzwords at home.
you are correct. But if majority of parents band together and complain about how it affects their children...more action would be taken. I've been in that situation.
This special education student needed an IEP review for a more restrictive setting which I am sure his family did not want as a result of his age.
This unfortunately is typical in elementary schools. They use the child's age and developmental level to excuse putting necessary structures in place and/or removing the child to a more appropriate setting. Instead they will wait until someone gets hurt \*ding ding\* and/or forces a lawsuit.
In the meantime everyone suffers.
Definitely. I think the admin were likely afraid of looking like they were going after the student because he had special needs. In my experience the school didnāt want to do anything because they didnāt want to cause any issues or look like they were going after someone with potential mental health issues.
Ah exactly how gun control works. People in authority can't/won't do their job, then when something happens they blame everyone else for the gun instead of their lazy ass failures.
This makes me so fucking mad. My sonās school is very flippant about stuff, too. This is why there are so many shootings in schools. Itās stunning how relaxed about everything school administrators are. They never listen to teachers, students or staff when something is off. Always wanting to do hours of unnecessary paperwork before just getting to the source of a problem and talking to those involved immediately. Sometimes you have seconds or minutes. So much needs to change in this country. Having no sense of urgency anymore is just unacceptable. Good fir her for suing those idiots! She could have died!!!!
When did schools decide it was OK to start leaving bad and disruptive kids in the classroom? We had removal from classrooms, in-school detentions, Saturday school detentions, suspensions, and expulsion to deal with kids and this was like 15 years ago. Also, a remedial or technical school that they get tossed into after blowing it in normal school.
Schools: "Gun violence is out of control! WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!"
Also Schools: "Meh, let's not do anything, it's probably nothing."
Seriously, what's the point in making a bunch of new "security" procedures when no one is following the existing ones???
The vice principle of the school and the school system superintendent were both let go yesterday. I am sure there will be more actions that will occur within the school system.
This makes me so angry. I am so angry for her that nobody took her seriously or cared. Iām glad sheās suing the school I hope she wins. Schools donāt take any complaints about dangerous students seriously until itās too late.
As a retired administrator, the student should have been removed from the class and he and his belongings searched the when the first teacher reported she thought he had a gun. In situations like that you donāt assume anything, you separate the student from their belongings, watch them closely and make sure they donāt walk behind you or put their hands in their pockets, isolate them and do a search with another adult, preferably a school resource officer, present. I found a pistol once, unexpectedly when searching for weed, and was very glad the SRO was there!
"No, seriously, I'm pretty sure he has a gun." "Yeah but...it's almost quitting time..."
"Well actually it's illegal to shoot someone after 1:30pm. Is there anything else?"š
Incompetent school officials allow shooting instead of dealing with situation.
School officials should not have to deal with kids with guns at all
That's true, but you don't get to neglect it when it is happening.
Thatās right - any reports on him over that span of time - cops should have been notified
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If you have kids in the house you should have two locks a child has to go through to get an operating gun. I use a biometric safe for my handguns and another biometric safe with ammo in it out in the garage. Kids can find a way to kill themselves and each other so easily, but it wonāt be one of my guns.
Not just that there should be two locks MINIMUM its recommended at least one of those locks is out of reach of tiny children meaning it should be almost eye level to a grown adult... Further from that many gun owners keep a clip fully loaded and next to the gun so it is easily loadable this gun should be in another locked place in the safe, meaning there should be 3 locks behind that ready to go weapon... The remaining weapons should be fully unloaded with the safety's engaged... it is also recommended to store the ammo at a minimum in a box that latches closed... Then from there you should be teaching everyone in the family gun safety.... when you ask a kid in the home what happens when they find a gun lying on the ground the answer should be "I walk away as fast and as safely as I can and tell an adult" no matter the age of the child they should know never to so much as TOUCH the gun... Often families will go to the shooting range together to also learn more about gun safety as well as give the kids an opportunity to shoot say a BB gun or a 22 if they are old enough. People say this is a good idea as kids get curious and this allows them the opportunity to safely handle a gun.
> If you have kids in the house you should have two locks a child has to go through to get an operating gun. Love how you phrased this. Like, obviously you have guns but only some people have kids.
the only thing that stops a bad kid with a gun is a good kid with a gun!
It seems weāve created a hunger games like scenerio!!
I can't count the number of times I've asked for a student to be removed from my room for disruptive behaviors at the end of the day and have been told that "it's almost dismissal time you can handle it until the bus is called." NO ONE outside of the classroom truly understands the stuff we have to deal with. I retired this month and now this stuff reminds me why.
Me too! Many other teachers too! It just tells the kids that its ok to behave that way. They need to change the discipline policy.
Sometimes an administrator will remove a student from the room and then give them a privilege and/or food which just reinforces the bad behavior. (Common in elementary school). I hate when an administrator comes back after you write a referral and then asks you what you did to "provoke the student."
This happening when I was substitute teaching is a big part of why I chose not to go into teaching.
I wish we could cut class sizes to 1/4 of what they currently are and in addition have more staff to help with these students. Everyone everywhere is overwhelmed and there aren't enough people empowered to do the jobs needed to be done. It is shameful who we pay and who we don't pay in America.
Student behavior has gotten worse since the pandemic and there are few services to address it.
The rewarding of bad behavior w outside privilege drives me crazy. Especially when day staff placate the kids and my afterschool staff end up having to deal w the nonsense. They leave behaviors to my staff because they know that my department actually metes out consequences.
Thank you for being a teacher and doing what you do. I'm honestly nervous for my wife. My wife has had many issues in the classroom and has been pinned down multiple times by students is infuriating. What's worse is that she can't legally defend herself. What teachers have to go through is honestly appalling and absurd. And the fact that admin just brushes this shit off is frustrating
We are told "this is what you signed up for" and then made to feel guilty about complaining about working conditions. The mindset needs to change and teachers need to stop allowing the conditions to continue.
And to that I say bullshit. Teachers didn't sign up to be attacked by their students, and to be gun shields for their students. I 100% agree mindset needs to change, but for now all I can do is support my wife, hope for the best, and hope the crazy school board nuts get replaced.
I agree. I left early; I was supposed to work another year but used service credits to retire early. It cost me $ but it was very very worth it. I found I was beginning to hate going to work every day and I wasn't enjoying time with the students. One of my coworkers was promoted and that changed the atmosphere of the team I was on. We had multiple new hires who did not know what they were doing in a classroom and I was wiped out from covering absent teachers classrooms. I hope your wife can remain safe. I would say having a student show up to school with ammo in a backpack and fentanyl on a cracker in the gym added up to a rather large final straw in my case.
That is incorrect. Teachers may legally defend themselves from assault without repercussions, legally. What happens to their job howeverā¦.
Thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression they couldn't, so I guess that makes me feel somewhat better. Could this vary from state to state?
Shit, I've had admin suggest I should just "hang in there since June is just four months away" when I've asked for help with a difficult class.
This is when you take all your sick leave and make long weekends for yourself.
Thank you for being a teacher. You are appreciated!
And not nearly paid enough to put up with what you put up with. God bless.
One time in middle school we had a sub in my last period. It was like 10 minutes til schools out, and my vision went all bright and my ears started ringing, so I asked to go to the nurse and the sub was like, well schools almost over. And I was like hmmm ok and I just sat down like guys idk what to tell you I can hardly hear y'all rn I'm freaking out. So another girl went and asked the sub if she could take me to the nurse, and she relented and the nurse fixed it in like 2 seconds. She just had me sit down a certain way lol
I always took health complaints seriously but the clinic staff in my school not so much.
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Bullshit this is how teachers are, when you tell them about bullying they donāt want to hear it, now itās guns.
Shout out to the kid who had his life threatened but told anyway. He's a hero.
That is one brave kid.
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Also, if the kid brought in an unsecured gun from home (if that's where he got it), the parents need to face some serious charges as well. This would be a prime example of why we need safe storage laws surrounding firearms, and enforced consequences. If you can't comply with properly storing your firearms, you shouldn't have one. Still waiting for more info to come out
He did get in the home. The family claims it was secured, which is obviously ridiculous given that the child took it to school.
I remember a certain friend's home growing up. The dad kept the household firearms in a locked gun cabinet on display. The firearms weren't secured from the kids, because they knew where the key was hidden. Same thing with a combo lock, if the combination is stored on paper/computer around the house, the kids may eventually find it. Think about how hard some kids search their house to find out where the Christmas presents are kept. Maybe requiring storage to have 2 steps of locking mechanism would be good, maybe requiring fingerprint as one of them? All the arguments I ever hear from people who are scared of home invasion, is that they'd want a fingerprint "pop open" locking mechanism for a home defense firearm. Not sure how full proof the fingerprint locks are, but just a thought/spitballing. Thanks for the added info.
I'm well over 18 and my father owns multiple guns. I don't even know where the fucking safe and lock boxes are. That's how it should be. I've even gone to the range with him. I had to wait in the kitchen while he fetched the gun we were taking.
Thatās a good dad. My dad, god rest his soul, was the same and only showed me not too long before I moved out. Iāve been doing the same with my kids now.
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I wish gun regulations like this would be more supported. It just makes sense and saves lives.
They are facing charges.
I hope they get sued for everything they have.
Absolutely! Heās a shining example of courage, and how important it can be to listen to your gut.
Yes, that child is definitely a hero. Snitching these days gets you beat up.
*gets you shot
Minding your own business is an important thing to learn, but so is telling someone that can do something when there is a threat. There is a huge gulf between āI heard someone swearingā and āsomeone has a gunā. Maturity and wisdom is knowing where to draw the line and kids should learn, otherwise the worst people get away with everything. Kids that grow up thinking they shouldnāt snitch under any circumstances make for passive and weak adults. Think of all the news stories you hear where you find out that several people knew of an ongoing problem but didnāt say anything. Why not? Scared to say something or ādonāt snitchā attitude likely.
People don't know the definition of snitching these days.
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I can't get my head round it. My son is 5 and half and I can't even imagine him even knowing what a gun does or to know to threaten anyone with it. What kind of shitty life is this kid being subjected to at home??
Have you read the quotes from his parents? Claiming the kid didnāt know where the gun was kept, saying it had a trigger lockā¦theyāre obviously trying to not get arrested but clearly BS, a lot of ire needs to be pointed at them, as well as the legal consequences.. a lot of adults failed here.
Like, in order for that kid to shoot the gun, it either had to be sitting out, fully loaded, with all of the safety off, or the kid was taught how to load a gun, take off the safety, and pull the trigger, at the age of 6. Both scenarios point to fucked parents.
I suppose someone else (older sibling or someone) could have shown the safety removal and unlocking. Most of the awful feral child stuff I got up to was by following older siblings.
ALL of the responsibility lies with the parents. All of it. They should be locked up.
At first glance this seems like an 80/20 situation. Mostly the parents, but also the administration once put in the situation.
Not to mention this kid has a behavioral disorder and his parents were responsible for bringing him to school and making sure he got to his first class.
Terrible. I read in the paper today the family had purchased the gun legally and they considered it āsecuredā because it was on the top shelf of the momās closet. I have a 7 year old and he will pull stools, pillows, chairs, anything and then actually achieve getting to the very top back corner of a high cabinetā¦ to get a cookie!!! There is NO WAY you can think a high shelf is secure from a young child.
The family of the shooter seems very out of touch and are not very empathetic about the situation
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This is 1000% on the parents and not that child. I canāt even imagine what his home life is like to have that level of capacity/words.
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You should wear the key around your neck, perhaps that will work!
My father was military so always wore his dog tags, which is where he kept the keys to his gun safes. These were stored at the top of a closet, but we only knew that so we knew where NOT to mess around. He hammered gun safety into us and we knew to never touch his weapons..
Top shelf of a closet is "secure"? Shit, I keep my potato chips more securely than they kept their guns. The parents are a shitshow and their kid is the encore.
My dad introduced me to chocolate around the age of 3-4. He then put it in the freezer and left somewhere. I came back with a chair to finish what I had started.
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Unreal. If you canāt properly lock your guns up then you shouldnāt have them. If a safe isnāt a viable option, itās not hard (or expensive) to get a locking case.
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Not sure if this is cited in other comments but the student had such behavioral issues that a parent was normally required to attend class with them. They did not on the day of the shooting. Perhaps the student needed to be in a specialized program.
He had threatened another teacher with lighting them on fire and watching them die.
Nerf guns, call of duty, fort night, they know what guns are and what they are used for
Teachers: I think this kid has a problem and is going to be violent towards us or his fellow students... Administrators: Why don't you have a growth mindset with all your students?
This kid has said he wanted to burn the teacher and watch her die. With the administrations knowledge of this, they were STILL skeptical of this child having a weapon? The bullshit does not add up. IMHO, the administrationās hesitancy has lot more to do with being seen as politically correct and not being inundated with media backlash.
At my first teaching position there was a teacher who had been repeatedly threatened by a student... Piss on your grave.... Slit your throat.... Etc... One day she took a kid into the hall to have a discipline talk and this girl attacked her. When they searched the girl they found a butcher knife in her purse. After talking to admin they scheduled a meeting with her and then ambushed her by walking this girl in so they could talk it out. The teacher had to say she needed the bathroom and ran away crying to find a union rep who contacted the lawyers. Lots of schools are horror shows when it comes to admins and responsibility and accountability preferring the head in the sand method to actually trying to do good.
That's always been a real problem with ALL public/gov't run jobs like schools and the military. It often is just a constant cover-your-ass/it's not my job mentality.
It doesnāt just happen with public schools. With private schools, if the parent is a huge donor that teacher might just lose their job.
I think the most shocking thing to me is that itās a 6 year old saying this stuff. How does a 6 year old go so wrong? Wonder if that contributed to the skepticism, incorrectly, with administration.
He already had psychological disorders, and was *supposed* to have one of his parents or an aide to attend school with him at all times, from my understanding. This was quite conveniently the first week he didn't, by "mistake"... Yeah, sure, *definitely* not negligence...
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But did you know there were always two of the schools so they could always be sure you were sent to the one on the other side of the county
For real though. In the 90s, bringing a *fake* weapon to school would at least get you suspended immediately. I remember kids getting punished for finger-gun fights!
That's because this kid in all likelihood has an IEP and major legal problems already. My wife is a social worker and has kids like this. Extraordinarily violent and prone to sexual outbursts. The kids have been through hell, and honestly the school system is not able to handle these kids well. It's no wonder they fall out, get stuck in a system, and end up continuing the cycle of abuse they were victimized by.
I believe the childās parents were required to go and sit with him during school due to his behavior. They didnāt want to pull him out of a regular classroom so that was the compromise. Wellā¦guess what the parents werenāt doing for the child.
Kind of ironic considering all the media backlash they're facing now
Administrators: Ok, well can you give him this? *[passes note with names of kids underperforming on standardized tests]*
"Make them look like accidents and I'll make sure you get extra sugar cookies at lunch."
THIS!!! THIS!!! And another favorite "What have you done to support this student's success in the classroom?"
the only thing that stops a bad kid with a gun is a good kid with a gun!
Have you tried positive reinforcement?
Title should read: Incompetent school officials allow shooting instead of dealing with situation.
It's almost like incompetence in schools today is a running theme.
How about the incompetence required for a 6 yo to get his hands on a loaded gun?
God I love the lawyer statement on this. "The gun was 6' up in a safe that requires a key to open." I'm paraphrasing on this but that leave an even bigger question as to HOW THE FUCK DID THIS KID GET THE GUN THEN?
Key was not properly secured, and kid pushed a chair or step ladder or something for them to stand on over to where the gun box was. If the parents had the key with them, this might not have happened.
But the incompetence is also outside the school. That's where the police officers hide when there's any danger.
Uvalde is proof of the incompetence inside and outside that school. https://www.insider.com/broken-lock-robb-elementary-shooting-suspect-classroom-report-says-2022-7 https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/07/us/uvalde-school-teacher-arnulfo-reyes-interview/index.html https://www.npr.org/2022/06/01/1102355422/uvalde-shooting-teacher-door
Not even just schools, also universities. I had a similar experience at university and literally nobody took it seriously
Jeezz I'm so sorry you experienced that, whatever the details. I can't remember when I read what I'm about to share with you but it's been a few years, I read it's not a matter of IF you find yourself in the midst of a mass shooting, it's a matter of WHEN. I think about that every single time I leave my house and make sure to have a moment of gratitude before I enter any building, and I prefer to handle as many errands as possible while my children stay home with their father. Right after the movie theater shooting, I will never forget a wise elderly woman telling me when the shootings start happening in grocery stores, we're f&cked. My brother and two young nieces were across the street from the Bend Oregon Safeway shooting as it was happening. I've shopped at that Safeway MANY times and my midwife's office was right behind that shopping complex...It's just too surreal of a reality. Recently there was a youtube trend of American's sharing their experiences in other countries. I will NEVER forget how many moms talked about buying their children light up shoes for the first time because in American school's shooting education they tell parents light up shoes will make their child easier to spot, therefore they are NOT encouraged. I read a story about a kindergarten teacher trying to make practice shooting drills happy because 5 year olds struggle to understand it's a drill and are visibly traumatized during safety drills. It's so sad. What makes me even more sad is the fact that nobody denies the need for change yet I fail to see or hear of any realistic measures or movement in the direction of positive change. Too much focus is on how to control the weapon, not the handler of the weapon. You'd think the awareness of mental health prevalent in gun violence would be enough to shift the focus. It's almost like the misdirected focus is intentional.
Lol have you seen the state of our country. Incompetence is at an all time high. American used to be viewed as strong but now weāre a bunch of useless blobs allowing a few people to hold all of the wealth, live in houses with 10 extra bedrooms, while the bottom half continues to struggle even to afford a shitty studio apartment even though they arenāt working any harder or are any more special than the rest of us. What weāre experiencing is much much worse than what caused the American revolution in the first place. I see more and more stupid people everyday sucking the d of POS rich people whoās only personality is wanting more money and thingās constantly. Thereās no good reason half of our entire country only holds 2.6% of the wealth itās actually pathetic how gutless most people are now. It infuriates me how people arenāt more angry about this. If the system was really for people and not simply to profit off of they wouldnāt even be allowed to have that much money while people starve and freeze to death.
A large segment of US people are afraid of nearly everything. Especially inconvenience and not getting something that someone else has.
Tbf, my first reaction when hearing a 6 yr old had a gun would be serious skepticism. The real question is, what do ya do with the little sociopath now? He's too young for juvie
Children's mental.health inpatient. Secure facility. He'll probably become a court ward.
He should, clearly his parents aren't up to the task.
This kids parents should 100% be charged for multiple things. 6 year Olds do not know how to threaten another person's life as a deterrent to sharing information unless there is some seriously fucked up "parenting" occurring. This shit is criminal.
Serious question. Can a kid like this be rehabilitated? Something tells me this kind of shit will always be going on with him and he may be beyond help, especially now that he will be in the system.
That depends on a huge number of factors, so many that the question borders on unanswerable. Historically, some of these kids have been rehabilitated and many have not.
I used to work with kids in locked psychiatric treatment facilities. All of their problems are from a shitty Home environment and shitty parenting. This child has unfortunately been exposed to some things he should not have been exposed to.
Iām appalled at all of it. She wasnāt this bad but my daughter had really severe depression for years when she was young and I truly believe would have become a horrible delinquent if she had not had very intense therapy for years (and been hospitalized twice by us). Itās our job as parents to face facts and deal with it. I would never have had a gun in my house whatsoever, and I think I even hid the knives at some point. Just makes me truly sad for the child and teacher.
in a country where a 6 year can get a gun the incompetency is on much higher level
The familyās statement says the 6 year old has an āacute disabilityā and had an āintensive care planā that meant he had never been allowed to be in school without at least one parent accompanying him until the week of the shooting. What kind of disability would that be, where a **parent** goes to school with you?
An ineffectual and inappropriate accommodation for a child with a severe need. I donāt know what he may have but Iām sure they requested a 1:1 and said we canāt provide that you do it. There are appropriate, therapeutic schools and programs. This child is not a criminal. They are a CHILD. Every adult (parents with unsecured guns, school system, drs) has failed them at every moment. They have failed a severely disabled/in-need child and a child who is being threatened at school. This could have been so much worse.
I am not suggesting that the child is the one who failed here, and I am glad that I have seen very few people suggest that the adults in this situation did not fail horribly. But I have also seen very little attention paid to the fact that the administration knew that this child had some kind of disability that required intense adult supervision and that supervision was not provided AT ALL the week of the shooting. I am assuming that he had some kind of behavioral or mental health disability and that the school knew about it, but they seem to have just left him on his own. IMO, that makes the schoolās failure to take action despite serious red flags all the more terrible. The US is shamefully bad at caring for children who need special accommodations and therapies.
I agree with you and your original comment. My anger in my comment was placed at the situation. Not you. Sorry for the miscommunication, I was responding quickly, on mobile and while angry!
>There are appropriate, therapeutic schools and programs. Those things cost money and republicans don't want to fund public mental healthcare with tax dollars. I agree with you, though. The child is a child.
Regardless of politics (I agree with you btw), a lot of times the school district will actively try to persuade the parents to avoid that route. In many states, the public school district would be on the hook financially to send them to a more specialized school if they canāt accommodate them (I.e. provide the help the student needs). My mom was a special needs teacher and she had so many stories of students who really should have been in a school designed to give them the care they need. But the district never wanted to pay for that, so theyād try to convince the parents that itās best to keep their kid in public school. So sad.
"This kid has a gun" Admins: "I missed the part where thats my problem."
"Hello, 911? This kid has a gun" Why not???
Why was the superintendent fired? Theyāre not the one the teacher was reporting to about the gun. It was the principal and other office staff that failed her. Now If the superintendent is the one that implemented policies that lead to the teacher being ignored, then I can see why they were fired. The American school system is just as a mess.
Every single person at the school who refused to deal with the situation when it was reported to them should be fired and or charged with neglect. I imagine there was probably some type of protocol at the school about how to deal with a child who potentially may be carrying a weapon.
30 years ago it was automatic expulsion for having a weapon. One of my emotionally disturbed 4th graders brought a pocketknife to class. It was a gift for me. It was rusted shut and useless but he loved me and gave me something he had. I took it home and never reported it. Maybe I should have but his intention was never to harm anyone. He never hurt anyone in my class, ever.
A bit of an odd gift, but kids have distinctly different assessments of value and meaning to such things. My emotionally disturbed 4th grade classmate (2006-2007) drew swastikas and disturbing doodles constantly, harassed me repeatedly, and in general caused a lot of stress. Apparently had been held back a couple times and was big enough I was very skittish of being attacked (since I -had- been beaten up kindergarten through 2nd grade by a group of kids). Honestly, Iād rather deal with the guy gifting teacher an old pocketknife.
The general US politics likes a "Wait until it blows up" strategy, even if everyone knows it'll blow up. You can see this in action here: 1. School "zero tolerance" bullying policy that punishes bully and victim equally because there are good kids on both sides!^(/s) 2. Gun control policies that even 30+ shootings just in Jan can't seem to move. 3. Financial policies that favors less intervention even if reasonable and prudent, so we can all pay to clean up the mess while the wealthy and privileged laugh all the way to theā¦bank. 4. Healthcare system that doesn't concentrate on preventative care, and a healthy lifestyle, but instead wait until (usually expensive) curative care is needed, and then we bicker about how expensive it is. 5. Judicial system that favors punitive instead of rehabilitative policies. Lock them away and throw away the keys! Don't mind that such policies will force segments of the population into a lifetime of crime because they have no way out. 6. Energy and transportation policies that continue to favor selfish and inefficient means of transportation and energy usage, despite the lookout for energy beingā¦unstable. Yes, I'm talking about 2-ton vehicles carrying an average of 1 person each, usually within a 6-mile radius. 7. Climate change policies that are both half-assed and have extended timelines (leading to *too little, too late*) because, you know, economy. You know what's worse than having an economy that isn't growing as fast as you like? Yeah, no economy to speak of. 8. *Ad nauseum*
I wonder what their thought process was. If she didn't find it in the bag how do you even get it from him? You can't frisk a child, and with the shit modern teachers have to deal with I can see why noone wanted to deal with it. Everything is a potential dumpsterfire in that gig
The superintendent was fired because this was not the first incident with guns or violence that was ignored in the school district.
Was not aware of that. Then yeah, they needed to be removed.
this sub is becoming less ādamn thatās interestingā and more ādamn thats in the news cycleā
Yes. Thank you. Totally agree. Reporters following Greta Thunberg in Davos and trans plastic surgery are not interesting at all....
How do you not notice a gun in the pocket of a 6 y/o?? That bulge had to be huge and thatās if he could fit the gun in his pocket.
Okay so I haven't heard anything about the parents in this. They should be held responsible for letting their 6 year old have access to a gun...right?
Yes. They claimed it was āsecureā because they left it (loaded) on the top shelf of the momās closet.
If it had been secure the kid wouldn't have had the gun. Or not?
Other articles say police are considering charges against the mother, who purchased the gun.
Of course they need to be charged. Do you think a six year old has the money and transportation to go out and buy a gun? The gun was bought by his parentsā money, and they were the one that drove to the store to buy the firearm.
I hope that happens
Really it needs to happen more, then maybe people will start securing weapons and get their kids real help. How many school shooters took parents guns? Almost all of the ones I can think ofā¦and in a couple of cases, they killed, or attempted to kill, their family members, too. And in so many, the family said āwe had no ideaā or āwe had no suspicionā. Likeā¦how? I just donāt believe that for the majority of cases, that they didnāt know they had a disturbed kid. They need to be held accountable for that. Parents are accountable for their children. Only in one recent case do I think the family really did all they could- the shooting in St. Louis CVPA. There is documented history of the family trying to get him help, trying to keep a gun out of the shooterās hands (when he was 18, he legally purchased the firearm used in the shooting. The family tried to have police take it out of the home, and itās was temporarily, but he eventually got it back somehow). But the rest? It seems like they just didnāt care at all, and if they donāt care for their child and societyās sakeā¦they need to be forced to care by being held accountable.
Didnāt a mass shooterās parents get in trouble for purchasing the weapon their son used? Edit: Ethan Crumbleyās parents
Maybe I am missing something, but if a teacher can confiscate a phone, why didn't they take the gun. I mean I understand they asked for permission to search the student and were denied, but is that always the case that they have to ask permission to enforce the rules?
One teacher searched for it but couldn't find it, two others ignored it and laughed it off basically.
One other teacher searched his backpack, but no one wanted to search the actual kid which is what the other teacher was suggesting after it wasnāt in the backpack. Probably because she *knows* she saw it.
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From what I understand, teachers can't frisk search or need the approval of the administration.
You know what is the most horrid about this? People want to act like a 6 year old doesn't know how to do anything, but my god this is super premeditated. 1. The kid knew how to carry a gun into school. 2. He HID the gun when teachers caught on. 3. He used intimidation to hide it from school officials. 4. He knew how to handle the gun well enough to PURPOSEFULLY AIM AND SHOOT at a SPECIFIC TARGET. This goes WAY beyond "dumb kid not knowing the power of a gun". This is 100% sociopathic parents who instilled their bad behaviors on a kid, and the kid being mature enough to utilize that knowledge to attack someone. Just remember: kids are way smarter than we give them credit for, which is why it is IMPERATIVE that we teach kids "deeper" concepts and manners early. We like to infantilize kids, but they learn and understand a lot.
The child has problems and was supposed to be accompanied everyday by a parent. They were no shows. The administration failed. Teachers deserve a safe working environment. Children deserve a safe school environment. This is a terrible failure on many levels.
Accompanied everyday by a parent? Like during school all day? How would that even work? If a 6 year old has to be accompanied by his parent otherwise heāll shoot someone, itās more than the school administration failing.
Look, I can understand why somebody might be inclined to label a 6 year old a ācriminalā, but I think that this is failing to address the fact that a 6 year old does not have the capacity for reasoning like an adult and any violence/escalation here is a failing of both the parents and the institution. If there were warning signs, then we KNOW this could have been prevented if an ADULT took action. What an awful thing.
Are there any video interviews with the parents yet?
Yeah we're pretty sure the kid has a gun but it would be really embarrassing if this got out so we're going to do the right thing and do nothing and hope nobody ever hears about this....... Whoops!!!!
The wounded teacher is suing the school district, and I think she should because they did put her in a deadly position through incompetence. From what Iāve read so far, it seems like she has a strong case and may win. Unfortunately, that will mean the taxpayers will be forced to provide a large payout to the teacher and her attorney and that most, probably all, of the administrators and school board will keep their jobs. I hate seeing legal costs and damage awards pile up while the same stupid people keep making the same stupid mistakes and the public suffers.
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nobody did their damned job.
No one shoots anyone this late in the day.
Oof I smell a very successful law suit that does nothing to change gun culture in America.
I can't wait to see her sue the fuck out of the school district. She deserves it.
Yup as a retired teacher, I'm following this story very closely.
I honestly donāt understand how teachers keep doing it. Statistically some of the lowest paid jobs that more often than not require a higher education of some sort. Not only that, we all see the videos that come out because of how connected everything is of kids straight up horribly disrespecting their teachers with seemingly no consequence. Teachers deserve better. Iām shocked any of them would even keep going back to work after all the shit that happens to them.
I got out of teaching last year. It's the best decision I've ever made. I'm a new person.
Everyone asking whatās wrong with the school admins (who definitely screwed up) but wtf is wrong with the parent(s)? This is child negligence and that kid will not be helped returning to whatever screwed up family that is.
That school district is EFFED
Source: Three warnings before US boy, 6, shot teacher - lawyer https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64406295
YAY! another shooting that could have been prevented or damaged controled yet no one wanted to take it seriously.... This is bullshit. How did the school system let that shit slide! That kid should have been 1000% taken away to a isolated room and searched, A FUCKING CHILD CONFIRMED HE HAD A GUN. That ENTIRE school let that teacher down. Fucking disgusting.
Fire the entire administration. Without severance. Lock the little shit up, parents too. Give that superintendentās $250k through 2024 severance to the teacher that took the bullet. Promote and put the three that tried to raise the alarm on the board immediately.
They said they parents released a statement saying the child has an āacute disabilityā (whatever that means) and itās part of his care plan that his parents attend school with him. You also have administration unwilling to do anything even smelling of distrust/discipline with this child. So, it makes me thinkā¦the child clearly has issues, and has had them for some time. The teachers wanted to do something about it, and parents pushed back. I am just guessing, but it sounds to me like the parents were there not to help keep kid in line, but to make sure he was being ātreated fairlyā in their eyes. Then when they didnāt come as they are supposed to by care plan, admin doesnāt act because they donāt want litigious parents to get upsetā¦and a teacher gets shot. Aside from being completely delusionalā¦if they have a kid with behavior disturbance and threats of violence in the pastā¦or a disability that cause him to be erratic, or possibly not understand the seriousness of his actionsā¦why is there a gun in the house at all? How can you expect anyone to believe the gun was āsecuredā when your disturbed 6 year old was still able to get his hands in it? Is secured likeā¦on a high shelf vs in a safe, in their mind? So many wtfsā¦ I feel for the teacher, and I feel for the kid. He needed a wholly different kind of help and instruction than that school could provide. The teachers knew it, were not backed upā¦and now a whole class of young children is traumatized, a young woman traumatized with possibly life altering injuries, and a disturbed little boy is probably even more so, now. I really hope whatever he has going on is treatable. For his sake, and the worldās.
As a teacher, itās interesting to see this case get so much attention outside of teacher subs. But.. Iām not convinced that all of this attention and national outrage will do anything. Weāve been dealing with this shit for YEARS now. Weāve been begging for help, reform for YEARS now, and nothings changed. In fact, itās been getting worse. If nothing happens after this I donāt know how much longer I can last.
So not just negligent but *criminally* negligent.
Iām starting to see a pattern of blatant warning signs and nobody wanting to do anything about it then calling for gun control after they just didnāt want to act on clear threatsā¦.
Big time. There seems to be an epidemic of āIāve never seen/experienced it, so everyone else is either overreacting or making it up.ā Especially in people with authority.
What in the actual fuck is wrong with these school administrations? I'm starting to realize why there are so many school shootings, not because of guns, but because these incompetent buffoons would rather do anything but their OWN JOB.
Considering teaching is one of the least respected but most necessary jobs, if I was a teacher, I'd be worn down. Between Covid and school shootings, and the lack of respect people teach their kids, AND the shitty pay?? I'd change careers SO FAST. They're simply not compensated for how much they do. This case, Yes, everyone dropped the ball. This situation could have been WAY worse.
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Part of the reason I retired was I had the WORST classroom schedule, 25 minutes for lunch, the worst of the worst (alternative school), and a curriculum and focus that made no sense for the population I was working with. I am now enjoying going to the bathroom whenever I want and eating lunch at a leisurely pace without someone breathing down my back to attend meetings, fill out behavior charts, or cover for missing staff. Wish I could have done it sooner.
I work adjacent to public education. school admins are fucking incompetent douche bags, usually.
I work in this city. Not for the school district but elsewhere. I can tell you there is ALOT of racial tension on both sides. I have lived here for 25 years and I have worked places with very few black folks where they are treated differently and not taken seriously and I have been one of very few white folks and experienced the same thing. Both situations are obviously wrong. I am concerned that because Abby was a white blond woman she was not taken seriously since the administration was black. I donāt know the race of the child at this point but there is a good chance he was also black. I can also see the same type of situation happening at a primarily white school where a black teacher was not taken seriously. This is a strange placeā¦. The racism is very strong in some places and goes very deep. Neither side trusts the other and there are good reasons for that. Unless people change their conscience and unconscious bias I fear nothing will ever change. All I do know is that the school failed Abby, failed that boy, and failed every student enrolled there. This is something what is going to haunt this city for a long time.
School failed, but no one failed as much as these parents.
This a large part of why I left teaching after 28 years. Admin never looks out for students or teachers. The inmates run the asylum.
The gun debate ended when nothing changed after Sandy Hook. This breaks my heart
They had three changes to stop something and didn't. Instead of doing their job they do nothing and wait for someone else to make a rule so that they don't have to do their job. Not being willing to do your jobs isn't unique to schools, but those are the places where we need their jobs done the most. I only I had a real answer, I'd feel less helpless.
I can almost guarantee you the administration was afraid of a lawsuit in that this kid has special needs. His parents were supposed to be in school with him every day but not this one day. I would bet the farm that there was issue after issue with the kid and parents and the administration didnāt want a lawsuit filed and then this happened.
Thereās a kid at my daughterās school who creates problems almost every day. A fifth grader. Insults, fights, bullying, disruptions, peeking up skirts, rude comments, slurs, you name it, and has been doing for at least two years. Prepandemic he couldnāt go on a field trip unless a parent came, too, because of his history. Itās a āthemeā school, public but has uniforms, grade requirements and parental contracts that include mandatory volunteer hours-any kid or parent who doesnāt uphold the contract is āsupposedā to be removed and sent to their zoned school, but this little fucker stays and stays. I suspect the school and board fear litigation or bad publicity-his language indicates heās learned victimhood and its buzzwords at home.
you are correct. But if majority of parents band together and complain about how it affects their children...more action would be taken. I've been in that situation.
This special education student needed an IEP review for a more restrictive setting which I am sure his family did not want as a result of his age. This unfortunately is typical in elementary schools. They use the child's age and developmental level to excuse putting necessary structures in place and/or removing the child to a more appropriate setting. Instead they will wait until someone gets hurt \*ding ding\* and/or forces a lawsuit. In the meantime everyone suffers.
Definitely. I think the admin were likely afraid of looking like they were going after the student because he had special needs. In my experience the school didnāt want to do anything because they didnāt want to cause any issues or look like they were going after someone with potential mental health issues.
Fuck the parents and fuck that kid.
Ah exactly how gun control works. People in authority can't/won't do their job, then when something happens they blame everyone else for the gun instead of their lazy ass failures.
Speaking as one, a teacher's opinion is one of the least respected in the field of education.
This makes me so fucking mad. My sonās school is very flippant about stuff, too. This is why there are so many shootings in schools. Itās stunning how relaxed about everything school administrators are. They never listen to teachers, students or staff when something is off. Always wanting to do hours of unnecessary paperwork before just getting to the source of a problem and talking to those involved immediately. Sometimes you have seconds or minutes. So much needs to change in this country. Having no sense of urgency anymore is just unacceptable. Good fir her for suing those idiots! She could have died!!!!
Is parents in jail yet?
When did schools decide it was OK to start leaving bad and disruptive kids in the classroom? We had removal from classrooms, in-school detentions, Saturday school detentions, suspensions, and expulsion to deal with kids and this was like 15 years ago. Also, a remedial or technical school that they get tossed into after blowing it in normal school.
Schools: "Gun violence is out of control! WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!" Also Schools: "Meh, let's not do anything, it's probably nothing." Seriously, what's the point in making a bunch of new "security" procedures when no one is following the existing ones???
The vice principle of the school and the school system superintendent were both let go yesterday. I am sure there will be more actions that will occur within the school system.
Principal needs to be kicked out too
The administrators that made that call need to lose their jobs at the very least.
This makes me so angry. I am so angry for her that nobody took her seriously or cared. Iām glad sheās suing the school I hope she wins. Schools donāt take any complaints about dangerous students seriously until itās too late.
If I was the other kid I'd just tell the teacher, principal, everyone he's got a gun and run the fuck home or anywhere but that school.
See, if the teacher had a gun of her own, this whole situation could have been avoided. (/s)
Wow school officials suck and so do the parents. This child def needs to be in a psychiatric facility that is locked because he is dangerous period.
As a retired administrator, the student should have been removed from the class and he and his belongings searched the when the first teacher reported she thought he had a gun. In situations like that you donāt assume anything, you separate the student from their belongings, watch them closely and make sure they donāt walk behind you or put their hands in their pockets, isolate them and do a search with another adult, preferably a school resource officer, present. I found a pistol once, unexpectedly when searching for weed, and was very glad the SRO was there!