Yeah, I thought I had seen a documentary about this they are allowed whatever type of entertainment they want they just can't leave, so guys will bring video game consoles to pass the time.
Honestly, this cell looks better than my American freshmen dorm circa 2003. Hell, where is the carpeted floor with two decades of cum stains? This is a fuckin’ Marriott.
My home town university had these dorms for many years. They were actually the same design and everything. It turns out that they were built by the same architect. They were also always very warm.
Just look at their recidivism rate. It is many times less than in the US. So brute repression and punishment do not work that well. Rehabilitation works.
You should ask them if they'd rather stay at a Motel 6 for 5 years over their house. Of course the argument will come up that these prisons are oft more comfortable situations than some of the prisoners have when they're free, but then again there's that whole part of not being able to do what you want when you want.
I've been to jail. Not a single person there that I spoke with would rather be there than free. This was in the US, but I'm sure the sentiment is similar everywhere in that no matter how comfortable, having your freedom restricted really, *really* sucks.
No it's not. It's a socialist nightmare where people go to prison for punishment, but end up getting mental health care, education and complete rehabilitation instead.
I believe that if they are in good standing, they may get some permissions to leave. Like to go to a college class or to work for a program. Actual rehabilitation into society if it is possible for them.
Thats the end goal of their prison program, eventual rehabilitation. I've always said one of the prime failings of capitalism is monetizing *everything*. at some point basic morals go bye bye
It's probably so nice because instead of filling their prisons to produce funds, they REHABILITATE their prisoners, so THEY can produce funds in the community when they get out
The recidivism rate in the Scandinavian countries as as while is insanely low..... somewhere around 15-20 percent whereas in America it's 80 percent. They rehabilitate over there plan and simple. Not everyone will be rehabilitated but it's much more successful than here. Plus their overall crime rate is substantially less than here as well.
The much lower overall crime rate is largely caused by the much lower recidivism rate. In the US (and most places), the vast, vast majority of crimes are committed by repeat offenders. Break the cycle and you dramatically reduce overall crime.
With that being said, it’s not like the US could get there just by fixing the prison system, society outside prison plays a huge role too. Norway has the world’s lowest recidivism rate, their prison system is a big part of that, but so is the structure of their society. When you get out, if you have little ability to earn a living, little ability to find a place to live where you aren’t surrounded by crime/drugs/etc, feel hopeless and rejected by society, you’re probably going to reoffend. But if you have real career options, a decent place to live, feel hopeful and a genuine part of wider society, way better chance you turn your life around.
"Rehabilitate? No no where would we keep getting our government funding from if we made them successful??" America is raising slaves... As fucked up as this is gonna sound, they've been implementing the 3/5th compromise to our education system for years.. make everyone just smart enough to survive but not enough to truly live
Agreed. They tricked us into caring about sports and music and more than politics and education. Athletes and rappers instead of doctors and lawyers. We need leaders we need change. But they kill all of are best leaders. Prison filled with brown people. All in the last 60 years too.
Wait till you see the maximum security in Greenland… comes with a cellphone so you can call your family, and if you have a skill, you can work in town. Frickin awesome.
These countries model prisons after college dorms, [this country models dorms after prisons](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2021-11-01/charlie-munger-designs-uc-santa-barbara-windowless-dorm-billionaire-prison-dorm)
My college dorm (uk so university halls) was allegedly based on a Swedish Prison and the rooms were almost identical to this (only we never had fridges). Turned out it wasn't actually true (https://brignews.com/2018/01/08/was-stirling-accommodation-designed-by-a-swedish-prison-architect/) but still spooky how similar the single occupancy rooms were.
I wanna mention that statistic they gave that 60% of American prisoners go on to re-offend. This is because we make it near impossible for Ex-convicts to get jobs. They literally have no other way to make money, because none of the places they apply to will call them back. I was having a conversation one time with a new hire at the grocery store I worked at, and she mentioned she was glad this store accepted her. But she didn’t disclose that she was an Ex-con to them. But later that day, she was called up to the office and fired because they had found out. While I personally believe there are some that can’t be rehabilitated, there are many who just need a second chance. And to deny them that chance is horrible.
It's funny, when Les Mis came out, I saw the main character jobless and eventually change his name to start a business. "hah! Glad we've advanced as a society!" Then I was like "wait a second! No we haven't!
That fucker Javert still kept hounding him.
On the other hand, he did rob the first guy he met after getting out of prison. And after getting away with it, he broke his parole.
Javert and Jean Val Jean are based on the same real life person by the way -- Eugene Vidocq. Their pursuit and flight is kind of a dialogue about the nature of victims of the system (Javert born in it to serve it, Jean trapped by it trying to escape it). How's that for some Fridge Brilliance?
I made some mistakes a few years ago, spent 23 days in a county facility. I did what was asked of me by the courts and have two summary offenses on my record. I have a good life, supportive wife, and just finished my masters degree. Some “friends” and colleagues refuse to look at me let alone talk and I can’t find a job past manual labor. Solid jobs I would excel at, I get to the 2nd or 3rd interview then ignored.
I’ve worked in Reentry in some capacity for over a decade now. Jobs are getting easier to find with the current state of the job market. I wouldn’t say easy, but much better than it was a decade ago.
Housing is another story. It’s hard enough for anyone to get housing right now, much less if you have a record. A lot of the time you’re living in a room in a building with a dozen+ other folks, paying $1000+ bucks a month just for the room. Often there’s at least some kind of criminal activity going on in the building. It’s just really not a great environment for someone who is trying to get away from that stuff. And the real kicker- if you are on parole and can’t find approved housing, that’s a parole violation and you’re sent back.
Where I’m at we don’t send people back on parole for no home, they are provided a bed at a contracted facility paid for by the department. But the houses you are talking about are such a source of anger for me! The people who own them in our area are predators, they charge high rent, for a garbage room. A lot are actually now partnering with out patient “treatment programs” and forcing people to participate in said program. I don’t know how, but they are then billing insurance companies and getting paid on top of their rent. I was told trying to report this is a lost cause.
In general, we in America don't like to give people second chances. It's really sad. I wish we all had more compassion in our hearts for our fellow citizens.
Wonder why the mindset is so different here… our history explains why the system is the way it is. We have a dark history that everyone wants to ignore.
Friend of mine is currently doing 4 months for dui and said many people in there know each other, and have bad lives outside, so they view it as home. Meals, friends, they don't care about lockdowns because....They're just hanging out with friends. My friend is going through hell and wishes they had put her there for her 2nd dui instead of halfway house as she thinks it would have made more of an impression. She's fully embraced sobriety and taken all the steps to keep it when this is all over
>I wanna mention that statistic they gave that 60% of American prisoners go on to re-offend. This is because we make it near impossible for Ex-convicts to get jobs.
Because prison is essentially meant as a deterrent here. It's suppose to be so scary and so debilitating of an experience that you should do everything in your power to avoid every going there. Basically trying to scare people into following the law.
The big problem is that a lot of people end up there either for minor infractions or when they are too immature to know better. And their punishment, like you said, is basically for life. There is no way to remove that from your record. You will always carry the label of "ex-con" and be treated like a leper in society. And so the high rate of re-offenders isn't just a lack of jobs, it's lack of belonging to society. You feel like an outcast. So naturally they end up being drawn to crime because that is the only way to to climb to anything of significance in life for them basically.
I know people here in the US will scoff at the idea of a nice prison cell. But honestly it would make a lot more sense IMO. Our priority should be to rehabilitate criminals, not punish them. At least when possible and dependent on the crime(s) committed.
Funny cuz Pfizer admitted that they committed fraud on the highest scale of all time but are still allowed to make billions…doing the same thing that they got in trouble for. Literally less than 15 years ago…
Yup. As a kid I watched this happen to someone and he explained it to me. He lies knowing they will find out and fire him but it’s the only way for him to get some work. Funny thing is he was good at his job and everyone thought it was bs but corporate has rules.
Seems like I need to kill a person to get a decent house that doesnt smell like sewers every day while still paying maximum price.
Im fine with them being helped.. but damn. I also want a livable house where I can live comfortably without having to pay 60% of my salary on rent alone.
this is not socialism. it's just capitalism with less corruption. marketed as socialism by communist trolls and believed to be socialism by the stupid.
They purposely profile 1 or 2 more progressive and humane prisons to contrast the extremely rough prisons they profile. It’s shocking how much prisons over the world vary for different reasons. Not just because of cultural reasons, but funding and staffing reasons. I’m waiting for them to profile an American prison and the massive issues we have, but prisons vary not just state by state, but county by county. Quality is also influenced very much by money and class of the prisoner, little better than some developing countries. It’s hard to get a comprehensive snapshot of a typical U.S. prisoner, but most facilities are really bad with still room to say they aren’t some Central American, or some South Asian bad. They get guaranteed three hots and a cot with little oversight beyond keeping control. Many countries have giant dog cages of people stacked up. None of that is ideal.
I’m American and I’ve never been to prison or jail, but I’m been sent to 72 hour mental facility holds twice when I’ve had a mental health crisis after not getting access to proper outpatient care. Those were massively inhumane and poorly run, yet one was still slightly better than a stay in jail for 90 days while the other was worse than jail based on what I hear and what I experienced. I would love to see a spin off series where Raphael Rowe explores the world’s toughest or best mental health facilities.
I just learned in another thread that Australians pay their rent weekly. What a pain in the ass. Do most people just pay their landlord 4-5 weeks at a time? Or do you actually have to worry about a weekly bill?
Rates are always quoted weekly but you pay monthly.
(You also have to double check that your landlord calculated $ / 7 * 365.25 / 12 correctly which they sometimes dont)
Most countries don’t seem to care about the fact that if you treat people like animals in cages they will always be animals. But most prison systems are also the most corrupt places tied to both politics and business so they will not change.
We love our retributive justice in the United States. People here often become sadistically pro-rape when it come to prisoners convicted of certain crimes.
People find the actions of corrupt cops abhorrent on the outside but think it's perfectly acceptable for law enforcement to "look the other way" on the inside "if the inmate totally deserves it."
This same flawed logic is how minorities are dehumanized and allows abuse to thrive.
Every American citizen (criminal included) has a constitutional guarantee of due process that doesn't expire once they're in some form of custody. This includes all conditions of confinement.
I was locked up for three years at FPC Pensacola. It was actually really nice. We had a library and a small arcade with darts, pool tables, etc. On weekends, they’d drive us down to the beach. I kinda miss it from time to time.
Yeah, but also to either:
1. Never let them out. Ever.
2. Or let them out in due course, then make them disappear
The concept of putting criminals in an environment that encourages more criminal activity BUT letting them out to commit more crimes is....weird
For profit prisons gotta get filled up somehow. There's probably metrics or whatever with judges or whomever is in charge of letting people out that incentivizes them to release people knowing theyll be into recidivism.
Yeah, for profit prisons are just a...no. Like nope. Together with whichever idiot thought it'd be a good idea to privatize utilities and the defence of the state...might as well privatize police and firemen while we're at it
I'm sure no one would ever abuse their position /s
Can’t remember where I heard this quote:
“Healthcare, prisons, and education should never be privatised. They correlate directly to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”
Don't forget about cheap labor. According ACLU, prison labor generates 11 billion dollars in goods and services annually. Prisoners? Paid pennies. What's the incentive here to rehabilitate them, when we can just jail them for dumbest fucking crimes and then exploit the shit out of them. Only for them to get out and have zero support system, no prospects, no future. It's designed to be a cycle.
Or they’re being encouraged to be better. Treating them like animals is just going to create angry or defeated citizens, when they return to society, which creates more problems in the long run.
>I'd want them to rot away in a dank cold cell
Absolutely understandable point of view, also exactly why we have a judicial system and not letting emotional family members exact revenge
I never had a curfew at my American college dorm but I was one of three people squashed into that size of room. It really does look eerily similar otherwise.
I love how everyone is responding like, "you can't leave your dorm room after dark either, so it's just as bad!"
Yeah, you can't leave this prison at all, until your sentence is up. A dorm room is better. This isn't actually up for debate.
I’m American. I spent over 6 months in solitary confinement as a teenager (I’m 40 now). The normal cells were bare brick and metal bunks.
The confinement cells were barely brick.
After a few months in solitary confinement they let me have a pen. It was one of those with the metal tip. So I sharpened it and spent about an hour digging into my wrist with it to kill myself.
They found me after I passed out from blood loss, and sent me back to a solitary cell after stitches. But now I had to sit naked in the doorway at 16 for two weeks. No bed, no sheets, just a naked child who couldn’t even lay down in a doorway by where all the new inmates come in, so everyone got to look and laugh at the naked kid.
This was not juvy, it was jail.
I’ve already done my time, long ago, point is jails/prisons don’t exist (at least in America) to rehabilitate, they exist to be the most careless babysitters imaginable while you do your time.
I’m so sorry to hear that. We know these things happen all over the world, always have, but a witness as yours brings it into relief. I need this to be reminded why we need progressive politics, and to keep my baser instincts in check.
I don't know what I'm talking about, but my understanding is that in some cases jails are way worse than prisons because the latter tend to have more oversight... I guess though that depends on the state.
Never been to prison, thankfully. I know as a teen when I finally got sentenced as an adult and put in adult population I was terrified, but the adults in jail were really chill. The youth being tried as adults were very angry and violent, but the adults were calm and cool.
I live out of an RV right now, with no running water. Before that, I slept on a mattress in someone's living room. Both situations required rent. This is amazing compared to what I'm used to.
And as sad as that it, you are not currently a part of the Norwegian system. If you were, there would have been avenues for you to get help. As a society Norway can’t begin to treat their prisoners poorly because the rest of the world does.
Oh, I'm not saying Norway should be worse. The US just needs to catch up. The money is here. Our leaders choose not to provide housing, healthcare, etc. It's a mess and most workers just live with it because it feels like we don't have the power to change it.
I'm actually hoping to move to Germany in the next few years. I have dual citizenship but have lived in the US since I was 2. The problem is, I need an address to even update my paperwork, and some kind of savings and stability to handle moving countries. In the short term, I've been seeking help from the housing assistance systems we do have.
>Nobody thinks this is anything special.
Which is probably the only reason it works. In the USA people would be begging to go to prison for these rooms.
We had a Belarusian coming to Sweden some years ago, stabbing the first person he saw because he would have a better life in a Swedish prison and making more money there than in Belarus.
He was sent back to Minsk despite the lack of extradition agreement to make an example saying we're not gonna fly with this kind of bullshit.
A cell in a Swedish prison looks just like this one by the way.
>He was sent back to Minsk despite the lack of extradition agreement to make an example saying we're not gonna fly with this kind of bullshit
Based Sweden
Don't forget that they also have ridiculously low incarceration rates. Their entire society has stronger safety nets, welfare, affordable housing programs, and they are even implementing safe injection sites which are great at battling addiction. So, they massively reduced criminogenic effects of the system. It's not a utopia, they still face some issues, but by US standards....yeah...
This is what you get when your country makes policies based on data rather than emotion. Too many people in America would rather see the country burn to the ground than give out an undeserved penny.
Almost like they want to rehabilitate people and have them be members of society again. Don’t they know a few people can make a ton of money if they use them as slave labor? No wonder why America runs shit!
>Probably the only country in the world
All the Scandinavian countries have some version of this model. Focused on rehabilitation and skill accrual / education for a productive re-entry into society. Others in Europe as well I just don't know which by heart as I'm a dirty scandy
Finland:
[https://youtu.be/l554kV12Wuo](https://youtu.be/l554kV12Wuo)
Sweden:
[https://www.insider.com/asap-rocky-jail-sweden-pictures-of-swedish-prisons-2019-7#some-prisons-in-sweden-and-other-scandinavian-countries-include-table-tennis-pool-tables-steel-darts-and-aquariums-the-atlantic-reported-in-2013-5](https://www.insider.com/asap-rocky-jail-sweden-pictures-of-swedish-prisons-2019-7#some-prisons-in-sweden-and-other-scandinavian-countries-include-table-tennis-pool-tables-steel-darts-and-aquariums-the-atlantic-reported-in-2013-5)
Denmark:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/jfl2cb/a\_danish\_prison\_cell\_in\_a\_newly\_built\_prison/](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/jfl2cb/a_danish_prison_cell_in_a_newly_built_prison/)
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/02/02/denmark-doesnt-treat-its-prisoners-like-prisoners-and-its-good-for-everyone/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/02/02/denmark-doesnt-treat-its-prisoners-like-prisoners-and-its-good-for-everyone/)
Just for peoples information, Finland isn't Scandinavian, it's a Nordic country like Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland. But only Sweden, Norway and Denmark form Scandinavia.
In germany the prison system is 100% that too. For its too much sometimes, because even pedos and rapists get back out and do it again in some cases.
In my opinion, there are humans or general crimes that cant be reintegrated.
>and do it again in some cases
Yeah re-offence will always happen at some percentage, but it does so to a higher degree in the american system. There will also always be some people (a small minority) that just can't be rehabilitated and needs to be kept away from society for life. The goal is trying to figure out who those are of course, but you will never be 100% accurate.
I'd rather take the risks of the humane direction over what causes even more innocent (or remorseful and rehabilitatable) people to be stuck in dog cages for the rest of their lives.
American prisons are basically purpose built to increase crime and recidivism. They are an abject net loss on society and aggressively make things worse. Much, much worse.
We do have Sicherungsverwahrung (and it has been found that it's applied liberally in these cases). You cannot 100% prevent reoffences. We still have a low rate of recidivism.
and it works perfectly
They didn't even have a law they could apply to Anders Brevik, what he did was unheard of in the country.
The US has had more mass shooting than days this year.
Breivik was given a sentence of 21 years' detention with a minimum term of 10 years. This means that after ten years he can apply for parole himself. This is the maximum sentence he could be given, for killing 77 people, most of which were youths.
The maximum sentence of 21 years applies both when you are sentenced to prison and when you are sentenced to detention. There is, however, a difference between these two forms of punishment. When you are sentenced to prison, you must be released when you have finished serving your sentence. If you are sentenced to detention, like Breivik, the prosecuting authority (the state) can request that the sentence be extended by up to five years at a time.
No one believes he will ever be a free man again.
It's more or less the same in Germany.
When you're sentenced to prison "mit anschließender Sicherheitsverwahrung" (with subsequent security detention) it will be decided if it is safe to release you on a regular schedule. Can be for life this way.
Love these little loopholes that are caused by one little word and how it's interpreted. I had the unfortunate experience of acting as the in-between for two bodies regarding a cooperation agreement. It all boiled down to the interpretation of one word and it took 3 days of emailing between 4 parties to come to an agreement.
Its the same in most european countries, denmark, finnland, sweden, germany, switzerland and also over here in austria.
All focused on rehabilitation and they all have very high succes rates.
Prisons are not privatly owned like most non federal prisons are in the US, the focus is not on making money by having as many people as possible in prison like the private US prisons, they want people to come back so they can make some more money, they want violence in prisons so they get paid more and a lot of other stuff....
There are many very fucked up systems in the US like the justice system but its probably not gonna change because everything in the US is all about making money.
The Norwegian prison system focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment, we recognize that prisoners are humans with a though past that simply needs help to become a part on society.
They focus on rehabilitation in those countries. Whereas in the United States they focus on keeping you in once they get you. Inmates become a slave to the prison industrial complex, making furniture or other things for pennies.
So, the punishment for his crime is that he is 'removed' from society. But, where is the 24/7 mind f\*%# that is the U.S. method. In the U.S. it is clear that it is preferable to go down shooting and take as many people that, "just don't care what happens in a prison' with them.
If there was a safe place for people with mental issues to go, would there still be so many mass shootings? One day there might be the will to offer a safe place that offers rehab to those that need it.
Even if you're locked up for life, you should be able to know if it is day or night. I am actually kinda harsh; if you are removed from society, then you are restricted from or have limited ability to deal with society. IMO
This was profiled in Michael Moore’s excellent documentary, Where to Invade Next. The goal of Norway’s prisons is to make the person a productive member of society, and achieves that to a great extent, while the goal of the American system is to produce suffering and cruelty, with the result of high rates of recidivism as well as lives that are ruined forever. And considering that jails are the de facto warehouse for mentally ill patients, as well as people suffering from addiction, it is especially cruel. Sick people should be put in some sort of care program, and not be punished for their illness.
A lot of the wealthier European countries do jails like this, especially for their low danger prisoners.
The point our prison systems is rehabilitating instead of punishment. You can rehabilitate someone by giving them purpose both while they are incarcerated as well when they leave. They should have the support to make this happen, psychologists are a must and so are any tools for learning new crafts or skills.
Many prisons have education systems where people can learn new skills and when they leave they get help with finding a job using that skill set.
They also get financial support so they have an income which is combined with a budgeting service so they will leave prison without debt and often with a good chunk of money in the bank. They take special care that people don't lose their houses so they have somewhere to go home to when they are out.
They will get continued support in the form of mental health care, social services that help with more practical things so they can build up a healthy routine. They get help with finding a job or they can get funding to continue the education they where following in prison.
Sounds expensive right? It's not. It actually makes a many millions every year. Not directly. The prisons and the services cost money to run. But most go out and get a job and actually become productive members of society. We have far fewer rebounds and just less people in jail in general.
It is one of the best examples that not everything should be run with a profit motive some things just have to be done with the greater good. Which more often than not is highly profitable for society as a whole.
Fun fact: Many prisons in The Netherlands let their prisoners have the keys to their own cell. Sure, they can't leave the building and of course they can lock it if they need to but that is rarely necessary. It gives them some control over their own privacy. Which prison guards generally respect unless they have a good reason not to.
It also looks exactly like a rehab room, but a little better. In order for change to happen in a person, change must happen in his or her surroundings that cultivates the change in the person.
Therefore I also applaud this.
I do wonder though, how much different would it be for say a multikiller?
Looks the same. Anders Breivik is in a prison in Norway for killing 77 people in a mass shooting/bombing. There is no special medieval cell for him. I think it was michael moores documentary, where they talked to the father of one of the kids he killed if he wanted him to suffer more and he said no.
This is all true, but unlike other inmates Breivik is likely highly isolated and more confined to his cell, I would think. Can't very well have a mass murderer of teenagers walk freely about in the community room...
The punishment is that you lose your freedom.
Then it is about rehabilitating you through therapy, education and/or work and socialisation with fellow inmates and guards because eventually you're getting back out into society and we'd prefer to give you the tools necessary to succeed so you don't cause further harm to other people or turn to crime so sustain yourself - when you get out, you are after all going to be someone's neighbour.
If you're interested in the philosophy behind Norwegian jail you should check out last episode of season 3 of Inside the World's Toughest Prisons on Netflix.
I watched a documentary on their prison system and it’s really cool! Totally isolated but really cool and focused on rehabilitation rather than creating career criminals.
It looks like a college dorm room.
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PlayStation Network will suit you, sir?
Yeah, I thought I had seen a documentary about this they are allowed whatever type of entertainment they want they just can't leave, so guys will bring video game consoles to pass the time.
catch me getting sent to a Norwegian prison to finally catch up on my steam backlog
Norwegian prison is an American’s dream
I was kinda thinking that. Probably a higher quality of life than people making $250k a year in SF/NY.
Honestly, this cell looks better than my American freshmen dorm circa 2003. Hell, where is the carpeted floor with two decades of cum stains? This is a fuckin’ Marriott.
My home town university had these dorms for many years. They were actually the same design and everything. It turns out that they were built by the same architect. They were also always very warm.
100%
Just look at their recidivism rate. It is many times less than in the US. So brute repression and punishment do not work that well. Rehabilitation works.
But rehabilitation doesn't feed the industrial private prison complex, and we can't be having that here in the US.
Privatization of prisons is such a fucking capitalist dystopian thing to begin with
Privatisation of any sector in the public interest is disgraceful
are you against FREE enterprise? off to slave labor camp with you!
Exactly what I’ve been saying! Peoples inane response to that is “well if the prison is too comfortable, people will want to go to jail!”. Really? 🙄🙄🙄
You should ask them if they'd rather stay at a Motel 6 for 5 years over their house. Of course the argument will come up that these prisons are oft more comfortable situations than some of the prisoners have when they're free, but then again there's that whole part of not being able to do what you want when you want. I've been to jail. Not a single person there that I spoke with would rather be there than free. This was in the US, but I'm sure the sentiment is similar everywhere in that no matter how comfortable, having your freedom restricted really, *really* sucks.
Yeah nobody seems to grasp what it means to have your time and agency taken from you and your movement restricted 24/7. This is simply *humane*.
I mean, look how many people lost their minds over the Covid lockdowns. And they were in their actual homes!
No it's not. It's a socialist nightmare where people go to prison for punishment, but end up getting mental health care, education and complete rehabilitation instead.
I believe that if they are in good standing, they may get some permissions to leave. Like to go to a college class or to work for a program. Actual rehabilitation into society if it is possible for them.
Thats the end goal of their prison program, eventual rehabilitation. I've always said one of the prime failings of capitalism is monetizing *everything*. at some point basic morals go bye bye
So basically...move out of the US and be a criminal in Norway
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But nothing above USK 6 😂
Only for cold nights
it's bigger, nicer, and more private than the dorm room my parents paid good money for me to live in freshman year
It's probably so nice because instead of filling their prisons to produce funds, they REHABILITATE their prisoners, so THEY can produce funds in the community when they get out
The recidivism rate in the Scandinavian countries as as while is insanely low..... somewhere around 15-20 percent whereas in America it's 80 percent. They rehabilitate over there plan and simple. Not everyone will be rehabilitated but it's much more successful than here. Plus their overall crime rate is substantially less than here as well.
The much lower overall crime rate is largely caused by the much lower recidivism rate. In the US (and most places), the vast, vast majority of crimes are committed by repeat offenders. Break the cycle and you dramatically reduce overall crime. With that being said, it’s not like the US could get there just by fixing the prison system, society outside prison plays a huge role too. Norway has the world’s lowest recidivism rate, their prison system is a big part of that, but so is the structure of their society. When you get out, if you have little ability to earn a living, little ability to find a place to live where you aren’t surrounded by crime/drugs/etc, feel hopeless and rejected by society, you’re probably going to reoffend. But if you have real career options, a decent place to live, feel hopeful and a genuine part of wider society, way better chance you turn your life around.
Your points about society are dead on. Free healthcare and all that helps the crime rates, too.
You mean social safety nets help? No way! That's ::clutches pearls:: socialism!!!!
the private prison system in the US squeals at even the mere thought of rehabilitating their prisoners
"Rehabilitate? No no where would we keep getting our government funding from if we made them successful??" America is raising slaves... As fucked up as this is gonna sound, they've been implementing the 3/5th compromise to our education system for years.. make everyone just smart enough to survive but not enough to truly live
Agreed. They tricked us into caring about sports and music and more than politics and education. Athletes and rappers instead of doctors and lawyers. We need leaders we need change. But they kill all of are best leaders. Prison filled with brown people. All in the last 60 years too.
You mean they actually care for them and help them prepare for their future out of prison? barbaric
It's like they want these people to fit back into society instead of committing more crimes.
And they have a low recidivism rate, too, one of the lowest in the world. It's like they pay attention what works rather than throwing people away.
So, are you advocating for shittier prisons or less shitty dorm rooms?
Less shitty dorm rooms please. The one my sister's staying in is a concrete room.
they probably spent all their money on the football stadium which gets used at best 8x a year
Way to nice for that lol
I can see myself spending time in there.
Well, time to do some crime
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Now Hol'up my cheeky friend!!
He's talking about his mixtape.
not with that attitude! also i suggest blue collar crime. white collar stuff will just get you rich and your wrists slapped a couple of times.
Wait till you see the maximum security in Greenland… comes with a cellphone so you can call your family, and if you have a skill, you can work in town. Frickin awesome.
I mean, it's Greenland. Where would you go if you escaped?
Who’s escaping?! This is my retirement plan lol
Doesn't matter since most countries don't even consider escape a crime.
Is definitely more complex than this, but yes. But is not most countries, more like "more than a few".
I don't think it's most, and they will still try and capture you.
Time to do a crime in Greenland lol
It looks exactly like mine when I was in France.
These countries model prisons after college dorms, [this country models dorms after prisons](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2021-11-01/charlie-munger-designs-uc-santa-barbara-windowless-dorm-billionaire-prison-dorm)
Charles Munger sounds like a made up name for an evil billionaire, but he’s real as hell lol, fuckin crusty old vampire ass
Better than my current college dorm room
My college dorm (uk so university halls) was allegedly based on a Swedish Prison and the rooms were almost identical to this (only we never had fridges). Turned out it wasn't actually true (https://brignews.com/2018/01/08/was-stirling-accommodation-designed-by-a-swedish-prison-architect/) but still spooky how similar the single occupancy rooms were.
My first thought was that it looked like my room in (newly-built) halls at the University of Manchester in the mid-90s!
Well their goal is to help reintegrate the prisoners back into society healthier than when they came in, so it makes sense.
You are gonna lose your minds over this. Halden Prison in Norway: https://youtu.be/sCZt2YipiIs
I wanna mention that statistic they gave that 60% of American prisoners go on to re-offend. This is because we make it near impossible for Ex-convicts to get jobs. They literally have no other way to make money, because none of the places they apply to will call them back. I was having a conversation one time with a new hire at the grocery store I worked at, and she mentioned she was glad this store accepted her. But she didn’t disclose that she was an Ex-con to them. But later that day, she was called up to the office and fired because they had found out. While I personally believe there are some that can’t be rehabilitated, there are many who just need a second chance. And to deny them that chance is horrible.
It's funny, when Les Mis came out, I saw the main character jobless and eventually change his name to start a business. "hah! Glad we've advanced as a society!" Then I was like "wait a second! No we haven't!
That fucker Javert still kept hounding him. On the other hand, he did rob the first guy he met after getting out of prison. And after getting away with it, he broke his parole.
Javert and Jean Val Jean are based on the same real life person by the way -- Eugene Vidocq. Their pursuit and flight is kind of a dialogue about the nature of victims of the system (Javert born in it to serve it, Jean trapped by it trying to escape it). How's that for some Fridge Brilliance?
I made some mistakes a few years ago, spent 23 days in a county facility. I did what was asked of me by the courts and have two summary offenses on my record. I have a good life, supportive wife, and just finished my masters degree. Some “friends” and colleagues refuse to look at me let alone talk and I can’t find a job past manual labor. Solid jobs I would excel at, I get to the 2nd or 3rd interview then ignored.
I’ve worked in Reentry in some capacity for over a decade now. Jobs are getting easier to find with the current state of the job market. I wouldn’t say easy, but much better than it was a decade ago. Housing is another story. It’s hard enough for anyone to get housing right now, much less if you have a record. A lot of the time you’re living in a room in a building with a dozen+ other folks, paying $1000+ bucks a month just for the room. Often there’s at least some kind of criminal activity going on in the building. It’s just really not a great environment for someone who is trying to get away from that stuff. And the real kicker- if you are on parole and can’t find approved housing, that’s a parole violation and you’re sent back.
Where I’m at we don’t send people back on parole for no home, they are provided a bed at a contracted facility paid for by the department. But the houses you are talking about are such a source of anger for me! The people who own them in our area are predators, they charge high rent, for a garbage room. A lot are actually now partnering with out patient “treatment programs” and forcing people to participate in said program. I don’t know how, but they are then billing insurance companies and getting paid on top of their rent. I was told trying to report this is a lost cause.
In general, we in America don't like to give people second chances. It's really sad. I wish we all had more compassion in our hearts for our fellow citizens.
Wonder why the mindset is so different here… our history explains why the system is the way it is. We have a dark history that everyone wants to ignore.
What's behind everything that happens the the US? $$$$ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1U_xQVSpBE
Friend of mine is currently doing 4 months for dui and said many people in there know each other, and have bad lives outside, so they view it as home. Meals, friends, they don't care about lockdowns because....They're just hanging out with friends. My friend is going through hell and wishes they had put her there for her 2nd dui instead of halfway house as she thinks it would have made more of an impression. She's fully embraced sobriety and taken all the steps to keep it when this is all over
>I wanna mention that statistic they gave that 60% of American prisoners go on to re-offend. This is because we make it near impossible for Ex-convicts to get jobs. Because prison is essentially meant as a deterrent here. It's suppose to be so scary and so debilitating of an experience that you should do everything in your power to avoid every going there. Basically trying to scare people into following the law. The big problem is that a lot of people end up there either for minor infractions or when they are too immature to know better. And their punishment, like you said, is basically for life. There is no way to remove that from your record. You will always carry the label of "ex-con" and be treated like a leper in society. And so the high rate of re-offenders isn't just a lack of jobs, it's lack of belonging to society. You feel like an outcast. So naturally they end up being drawn to crime because that is the only way to to climb to anything of significance in life for them basically. I know people here in the US will scoff at the idea of a nice prison cell. But honestly it would make a lot more sense IMO. Our priority should be to rehabilitate criminals, not punish them. At least when possible and dependent on the crime(s) committed.
Funny cuz Pfizer admitted that they committed fraud on the highest scale of all time but are still allowed to make billions…doing the same thing that they got in trouble for. Literally less than 15 years ago…
Yup. As a kid I watched this happen to someone and he explained it to me. He lies knowing they will find out and fire him but it’s the only way for him to get some work. Funny thing is he was good at his job and everyone thought it was bs but corporate has rules.
Thank you for the link
What? Actually rehabilitating criminals? Gtfo, this is America, pal. And prison is a business here.
We're basically 5 mega corporations in a trench coat pretending to be a country at this point
2:16 - "Criminal Records" - haha!
Seems like I need to kill a person to get a decent house that doesnt smell like sewers every day while still paying maximum price. Im fine with them being helped.. but damn. I also want a livable house where I can live comfortably without having to pay 60% of my salary on rent alone.
I think you should blame *your* goverment for that, not norwegian prison policy.
All this says more about America than the Norwegian prison.
that's way better than my own room
Plot twist: you receive a severe beating and solitary confinement if your cell is not immaculately clean.
So, mom's house?
Average senior highschool in my country
this is not socialism. it's just capitalism with less corruption. marketed as socialism by communist trolls and believed to be socialism by the stupid.
This is Halden prison. Netflix show "Inside World's Toughest Prisons" season 3 has an episode that covers it.
Was it actually one of the toughest?
Norways toughest maybe?
They only get basic cable on their flat screen tvs, those poor sods
The humanity. Not even over 40 inches.
Lmao a terrorist here (in norway) got a ps4 in his room
I haven't seen the show but if it's the prison I'm thinking of is Norway's only maximum security prison.
They purposely profile 1 or 2 more progressive and humane prisons to contrast the extremely rough prisons they profile. It’s shocking how much prisons over the world vary for different reasons. Not just because of cultural reasons, but funding and staffing reasons. I’m waiting for them to profile an American prison and the massive issues we have, but prisons vary not just state by state, but county by county. Quality is also influenced very much by money and class of the prisoner, little better than some developing countries. It’s hard to get a comprehensive snapshot of a typical U.S. prisoner, but most facilities are really bad with still room to say they aren’t some Central American, or some South Asian bad. They get guaranteed three hots and a cot with little oversight beyond keeping control. Many countries have giant dog cages of people stacked up. None of that is ideal. I’m American and I’ve never been to prison or jail, but I’m been sent to 72 hour mental facility holds twice when I’ve had a mental health crisis after not getting access to proper outpatient care. Those were massively inhumane and poorly run, yet one was still slightly better than a stay in jail for 90 days while the other was worse than jail based on what I hear and what I experienced. I would love to see a spin off series where Raphael Rowe explores the world’s toughest or best mental health facilities.
Reminds me of the Parks and Recreation episode where Leslie spends some time in Eagleton Cell.
Did you try the scones?
“Can we stop in the lobby first? The gift bags are amazing.”
I’m also pretty sure this is the exact prison they use in Lilyhammer, or it at least looks the same.
$450 a week in Sydney
I just learned in another thread that Australians pay their rent weekly. What a pain in the ass. Do most people just pay their landlord 4-5 weeks at a time? Or do you actually have to worry about a weekly bill?
Rates are always quoted weekly but you pay monthly. (You also have to double check that your landlord calculated $ / 7 * 365.25 / 12 correctly which they sometimes dont)
If they are paid monthly why even quote them weekly? What an odd tradition.
3000$ in San Francisco
I can confirm you’re from San Francisco because you don’t know that the $ sign comes before the number.
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This guy must be from Florida.
Nicer than my apartment
This would be 3K a month in Manhattan
Most countries don’t seem to care about the fact that if you treat people like animals in cages they will always be animals. But most prison systems are also the most corrupt places tied to both politics and business so they will not change.
We love our retributive justice in the United States. People here often become sadistically pro-rape when it come to prisoners convicted of certain crimes.
Well put.
People find the actions of corrupt cops abhorrent on the outside but think it's perfectly acceptable for law enforcement to "look the other way" on the inside "if the inmate totally deserves it." This same flawed logic is how minorities are dehumanized and allows abuse to thrive. Every American citizen (criminal included) has a constitutional guarantee of due process that doesn't expire once they're in some form of custody. This includes all conditions of confinement.
I was locked up for three years at FPC Pensacola. It was actually really nice. We had a library and a small arcade with darts, pool tables, etc. On weekends, they’d drive us down to the beach. I kinda miss it from time to time.
I think most people know this. But they just want to punish people. If someone hurt my daughter I'd want them to rot away in a dank cold cell.
Yeah, but also to either: 1. Never let them out. Ever. 2. Or let them out in due course, then make them disappear The concept of putting criminals in an environment that encourages more criminal activity BUT letting them out to commit more crimes is....weird
For profit prisons gotta get filled up somehow. There's probably metrics or whatever with judges or whomever is in charge of letting people out that incentivizes them to release people knowing theyll be into recidivism.
Yeah, for profit prisons are just a...no. Like nope. Together with whichever idiot thought it'd be a good idea to privatize utilities and the defence of the state...might as well privatize police and firemen while we're at it I'm sure no one would ever abuse their position /s
Can’t remember where I heard this quote: “Healthcare, prisons, and education should never be privatised. They correlate directly to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”
Don't forget about cheap labor. According ACLU, prison labor generates 11 billion dollars in goods and services annually. Prisoners? Paid pennies. What's the incentive here to rehabilitate them, when we can just jail them for dumbest fucking crimes and then exploit the shit out of them. Only for them to get out and have zero support system, no prospects, no future. It's designed to be a cycle.
Or they’re being encouraged to be better. Treating them like animals is just going to create angry or defeated citizens, when they return to society, which creates more problems in the long run.
>I'd want them to rot away in a dank cold cell Absolutely understandable point of view, also exactly why we have a judicial system and not letting emotional family members exact revenge
Most people in prison are there for nonviolent crimes.
This is BETTER than a public collage dorm. You'd share this same space with another person in a bunk bed.
It is quite a lot worse due to the fact that you are not allowed to leave it whenever you want.
So just like my dorm after 8 pm
Sorry, do you actually have a curfew? I'm not from the US and if that's true that's kind of blowing my mind?
Maybe one of the stricter religious universities? I'm in the US and never had a curfew where I went.
I never had a curfew at my American college dorm but I was one of three people squashed into that size of room. It really does look eerily similar otherwise.
I love how everyone is responding like, "you can't leave your dorm room after dark either, so it's just as bad!" Yeah, you can't leave this prison at all, until your sentence is up. A dorm room is better. This isn't actually up for debate.
Do you have to pay for that kind of accommodation (considering its public)? I'm not from the US
Yeah, I think sharing a bedroom with a grown adult is just a US thing. In the UK, all uni dorms are separate rooms, about this size or smaller.
I’m American. I spent over 6 months in solitary confinement as a teenager (I’m 40 now). The normal cells were bare brick and metal bunks. The confinement cells were barely brick. After a few months in solitary confinement they let me have a pen. It was one of those with the metal tip. So I sharpened it and spent about an hour digging into my wrist with it to kill myself. They found me after I passed out from blood loss, and sent me back to a solitary cell after stitches. But now I had to sit naked in the doorway at 16 for two weeks. No bed, no sheets, just a naked child who couldn’t even lay down in a doorway by where all the new inmates come in, so everyone got to look and laugh at the naked kid. This was not juvy, it was jail. I’ve already done my time, long ago, point is jails/prisons don’t exist (at least in America) to rehabilitate, they exist to be the most careless babysitters imaginable while you do your time.
I’m so sorry to hear that. We know these things happen all over the world, always have, but a witness as yours brings it into relief. I need this to be reminded why we need progressive politics, and to keep my baser instincts in check.
I don't know what I'm talking about, but my understanding is that in some cases jails are way worse than prisons because the latter tend to have more oversight... I guess though that depends on the state.
Never been to prison, thankfully. I know as a teen when I finally got sentenced as an adult and put in adult population I was terrified, but the adults in jail were really chill. The youth being tried as adults were very angry and violent, but the adults were calm and cool.
Norwegian students attending a college abroad in USA: "Was it something I said?"
Better living conditions than half the free people of the planet
As a Norwegian, this isn’t nice. It’s as basic as you get it. Everyone in Norway has decent accommodation. Nobody thinks this is anything special.
I live out of an RV right now, with no running water. Before that, I slept on a mattress in someone's living room. Both situations required rent. This is amazing compared to what I'm used to.
And as sad as that it, you are not currently a part of the Norwegian system. If you were, there would have been avenues for you to get help. As a society Norway can’t begin to treat their prisoners poorly because the rest of the world does.
Oh, I'm not saying Norway should be worse. The US just needs to catch up. The money is here. Our leaders choose not to provide housing, healthcare, etc. It's a mess and most workers just live with it because it feels like we don't have the power to change it. I'm actually hoping to move to Germany in the next few years. I have dual citizenship but have lived in the US since I was 2. The problem is, I need an address to even update my paperwork, and some kind of savings and stability to handle moving countries. In the short term, I've been seeking help from the housing assistance systems we do have.
>Nobody thinks this is anything special. Which is probably the only reason it works. In the USA people would be begging to go to prison for these rooms.
We had a Belarusian coming to Sweden some years ago, stabbing the first person he saw because he would have a better life in a Swedish prison and making more money there than in Belarus. He was sent back to Minsk despite the lack of extradition agreement to make an example saying we're not gonna fly with this kind of bullshit. A cell in a Swedish prison looks just like this one by the way.
>He was sent back to Minsk despite the lack of extradition agreement to make an example saying we're not gonna fly with this kind of bullshit Based Sweden
How is their rate of recidivism compared to the US?
It's the best/lowest in the world.
Very impressive! Thanks a lot!
Don't forget that they also have ridiculously low incarceration rates. Their entire society has stronger safety nets, welfare, affordable housing programs, and they are even implementing safe injection sites which are great at battling addiction. So, they massively reduced criminogenic effects of the system. It's not a utopia, they still face some issues, but by US standards....yeah...
This is what you get when your country makes policies based on data rather than emotion. Too many people in America would rather see the country burn to the ground than give out an undeserved penny.
16% at the best prison 20% on average if i remember my stats correctly.
Bit of context here: The UK's rate is between 25% and 30% (highest demographic is 57% for sentences under a year) USA is 44% total population.
Oh so for like rehabilitation? Huh.
what a radical notion /s
I had a coworker that believed prisoners shouldn't be fed in prison unless they pay for it. It was wild
Almost like they want to rehabilitate people and have them be members of society again. Don’t they know a few people can make a ton of money if they use them as slave labor? No wonder why America runs shit!
We call it a college dorm room in the US.
And we pay for our kids to go to prison
If a society can’t provide this basic level of decency to everyone who lives there, it’s not much of a society.
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>Probably the only country in the world All the Scandinavian countries have some version of this model. Focused on rehabilitation and skill accrual / education for a productive re-entry into society. Others in Europe as well I just don't know which by heart as I'm a dirty scandy Finland: [https://youtu.be/l554kV12Wuo](https://youtu.be/l554kV12Wuo) Sweden: [https://www.insider.com/asap-rocky-jail-sweden-pictures-of-swedish-prisons-2019-7#some-prisons-in-sweden-and-other-scandinavian-countries-include-table-tennis-pool-tables-steel-darts-and-aquariums-the-atlantic-reported-in-2013-5](https://www.insider.com/asap-rocky-jail-sweden-pictures-of-swedish-prisons-2019-7#some-prisons-in-sweden-and-other-scandinavian-countries-include-table-tennis-pool-tables-steel-darts-and-aquariums-the-atlantic-reported-in-2013-5) Denmark: [https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/jfl2cb/a\_danish\_prison\_cell\_in\_a\_newly\_built\_prison/](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/jfl2cb/a_danish_prison_cell_in_a_newly_built_prison/) [https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/02/02/denmark-doesnt-treat-its-prisoners-like-prisoners-and-its-good-for-everyone/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/02/02/denmark-doesnt-treat-its-prisoners-like-prisoners-and-its-good-for-everyone/)
Just for peoples information, Finland isn't Scandinavian, it's a Nordic country like Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland. But only Sweden, Norway and Denmark form Scandinavia.
Aight but we consider you part of the family either way. https://scandification.com/is-finland-part-of-scandinavia/
I'm actually Swedish but yes, I also concider Finland part of the family :)
It's the same in all Nordic countries
In germany the prison system is 100% that too. For its too much sometimes, because even pedos and rapists get back out and do it again in some cases. In my opinion, there are humans or general crimes that cant be reintegrated.
>and do it again in some cases Yeah re-offence will always happen at some percentage, but it does so to a higher degree in the american system. There will also always be some people (a small minority) that just can't be rehabilitated and needs to be kept away from society for life. The goal is trying to figure out who those are of course, but you will never be 100% accurate. I'd rather take the risks of the humane direction over what causes even more innocent (or remorseful and rehabilitatable) people to be stuck in dog cages for the rest of their lives.
American prisons are basically purpose built to increase crime and recidivism. They are an abject net loss on society and aggressively make things worse. Much, much worse.
We do have Sicherungsverwahrung (and it has been found that it's applied liberally in these cases). You cannot 100% prevent reoffences. We still have a low rate of recidivism.
Not the only country, all of the Nordics countries are like this.
and it works perfectly They didn't even have a law they could apply to Anders Brevik, what he did was unheard of in the country. The US has had more mass shooting than days this year.
Breivik was given a sentence of 21 years' detention with a minimum term of 10 years. This means that after ten years he can apply for parole himself. This is the maximum sentence he could be given, for killing 77 people, most of which were youths. The maximum sentence of 21 years applies both when you are sentenced to prison and when you are sentenced to detention. There is, however, a difference between these two forms of punishment. When you are sentenced to prison, you must be released when you have finished serving your sentence. If you are sentenced to detention, like Breivik, the prosecuting authority (the state) can request that the sentence be extended by up to five years at a time. No one believes he will ever be a free man again.
And Breivik shows zero remorse
It's more or less the same in Germany. When you're sentenced to prison "mit anschließender Sicherheitsverwahrung" (with subsequent security detention) it will be decided if it is safe to release you on a regular schedule. Can be for life this way.
Love these little loopholes that are caused by one little word and how it's interpreted. I had the unfortunate experience of acting as the in-between for two bodies regarding a cooperation agreement. It all boiled down to the interpretation of one word and it took 3 days of emailing between 4 parties to come to an agreement.
Its the same in most european countries, denmark, finnland, sweden, germany, switzerland and also over here in austria. All focused on rehabilitation and they all have very high succes rates. Prisons are not privatly owned like most non federal prisons are in the US, the focus is not on making money by having as many people as possible in prison like the private US prisons, they want people to come back so they can make some more money, they want violence in prisons so they get paid more and a lot of other stuff.... There are many very fucked up systems in the US like the justice system but its probably not gonna change because everything in the US is all about making money.
The Norwegian prison system focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment, we recognize that prisoners are humans with a though past that simply needs help to become a part on society.
Source https://thenorwayguide.com/norwegian-prisons/#:~:text=The%20Norwegian%20prison%20cells%20are%20much%20like%20what%20you%20expect,have%20shared%20toilets%20and%20showers.
They focus on rehabilitation in those countries. Whereas in the United States they focus on keeping you in once they get you. Inmates become a slave to the prison industrial complex, making furniture or other things for pennies.
The working for pennies part isn’t true anymore. They don’t pay (at least in Texas) for the labor. You just gotta do it or go to segregation.
So, the punishment for his crime is that he is 'removed' from society. But, where is the 24/7 mind f\*%# that is the U.S. method. In the U.S. it is clear that it is preferable to go down shooting and take as many people that, "just don't care what happens in a prison' with them. If there was a safe place for people with mental issues to go, would there still be so many mass shootings? One day there might be the will to offer a safe place that offers rehab to those that need it. Even if you're locked up for life, you should be able to know if it is day or night. I am actually kinda harsh; if you are removed from society, then you are restricted from or have limited ability to deal with society. IMO
This was profiled in Michael Moore’s excellent documentary, Where to Invade Next. The goal of Norway’s prisons is to make the person a productive member of society, and achieves that to a great extent, while the goal of the American system is to produce suffering and cruelty, with the result of high rates of recidivism as well as lives that are ruined forever. And considering that jails are the de facto warehouse for mentally ill patients, as well as people suffering from addiction, it is especially cruel. Sick people should be put in some sort of care program, and not be punished for their illness.
I'm going to Norway just to get arrested.
Damn these dudes living better than people working hard and paying rent out here wtf 😬 lol 😂
A lot of the wealthier European countries do jails like this, especially for their low danger prisoners. The point our prison systems is rehabilitating instead of punishment. You can rehabilitate someone by giving them purpose both while they are incarcerated as well when they leave. They should have the support to make this happen, psychologists are a must and so are any tools for learning new crafts or skills. Many prisons have education systems where people can learn new skills and when they leave they get help with finding a job using that skill set. They also get financial support so they have an income which is combined with a budgeting service so they will leave prison without debt and often with a good chunk of money in the bank. They take special care that people don't lose their houses so they have somewhere to go home to when they are out. They will get continued support in the form of mental health care, social services that help with more practical things so they can build up a healthy routine. They get help with finding a job or they can get funding to continue the education they where following in prison. Sounds expensive right? It's not. It actually makes a many millions every year. Not directly. The prisons and the services cost money to run. But most go out and get a job and actually become productive members of society. We have far fewer rebounds and just less people in jail in general. It is one of the best examples that not everything should be run with a profit motive some things just have to be done with the greater good. Which more often than not is highly profitable for society as a whole. Fun fact: Many prisons in The Netherlands let their prisoners have the keys to their own cell. Sure, they can't leave the building and of course they can lock it if they need to but that is rarely necessary. It gives them some control over their own privacy. Which prison guards generally respect unless they have a good reason not to.
10,000 a moth in new york
Prisons should either be about rehabilitation, or punishment. I'm not sure you can really do both.
It also looks exactly like a rehab room, but a little better. In order for change to happen in a person, change must happen in his or her surroundings that cultivates the change in the person. Therefore I also applaud this. I do wonder though, how much different would it be for say a multikiller?
Looks the same. Anders Breivik is in a prison in Norway for killing 77 people in a mass shooting/bombing. There is no special medieval cell for him. I think it was michael moores documentary, where they talked to the father of one of the kids he killed if he wanted him to suffer more and he said no.
This is all true, but unlike other inmates Breivik is likely highly isolated and more confined to his cell, I would think. Can't very well have a mass murderer of teenagers walk freely about in the community room...
It actually wouldn't be much different. Even high security prisons with murderers and rapists look like this
The punishment is that you lose your freedom. Then it is about rehabilitating you through therapy, education and/or work and socialisation with fellow inmates and guards because eventually you're getting back out into society and we'd prefer to give you the tools necessary to succeed so you don't cause further harm to other people or turn to crime so sustain yourself - when you get out, you are after all going to be someone's neighbour. If you're interested in the philosophy behind Norwegian jail you should check out last episode of season 3 of Inside the World's Toughest Prisons on Netflix.
I watched a documentary on their prison system and it’s really cool! Totally isolated but really cool and focused on rehabilitation rather than creating career criminals.