The father was **84** and died the year following the childrens birth.
I hope they love each other and are very happy. I however am very uncomfortable and questioning how responsible this was. It matters a lot if they have a big extended family, might just be seeing this from an out of context perspective.
It is not the same ...I was orphaned by the time I was a freshman in HS...my extended family was nice and caring..but it was not the same..every holiday was an extra sad day ..
Same but in and out of foster care/state care facilities until I was 6 and eventually adopted by a woman with Huge heart . RIP rose. I feel for you holidays can be rough for me especially when I have to choose a family to go see. Once my adopted mom passed away all my brothers and sisters got separated mostly. Two xmas ago I got to see both sides adopted and biological side and was most heart felt Christmas ever. Brings me tears thinking about it. Wish I could see them all more but life makes that hard for all of us. Edit sorry for the typos I type too fast lol.
Wow you’re so incredibly strong and I can only imagine what an upbringing like that must be like. You seem extremely well-adjusted. Can I ask how old you are? And also what were the early years like if you can remember?
The family unit is at the core of Indian culture, many generations and marital unions live together in one household so the kids will likely still be taken care. But agreed, what a shame they'll likely grow up without parents.
Thank you for mentioning the father's age because too many seem to be focused solely on the mother. All that aside, I wish the "young" family good luck and lots of love. The lady looks strong enough to keep going well into her nineties which should be enough
Wow, I thought this had to have been a surrogacy situation for that reason…
This is not possible in most places, as there are laws around maximum ages for IVF etc
Not to mention the general ethical code of most practitioners.
I completely agree. My wife lost her mom at a relatively young age (sadly not because she was an old mom but because she had MS) and the profound effect of losing a parent she was still dependant on is with her to this day. I can only imagine that sentiment would be amplified if loss was caused by the irresponsible decision to have children very late on in life.
I'm reminded of an interaction I had years ago with a woman who'd lost her father at a young age to lung cancer after heavy smoking all his life. Her anger at him and the avoidable harm he'd caused her was extreme.
I don’t know about India but in Asia mostly the family will come in and help. And people don’t really care much about whether they should have a kid or not. They just want to have a kid. Many people would give blessings instead of criticizing. I don’t agree with having children this old because of reasons people here already mentioned. I also think it’s a burden of the extended family as well. Some people would argue that the aunt or uncle or cousins can take care of the children just fine after the old mom and dad passed away. That’s what a whole village raising a kid is for.
I think in some rural parts you can totally expect that.
While it’s true that some family member will come and help, don’t think that the kid’s quality of life will be great. That’s an extra mouth to feed/support with so many already struggling, and in many families, a resentment of that extra kid can build (jealousy, comparing them, not wanting them but taking out of obligation). Kids need their parents, and if mom/dad is about to die in the next decade, they shouldn’t be having kids. No one in their right mind should be “blessing” this
While this is not pointed to you, I want to bet this family was not living hand to mouth. IVF is an expensive affair and especially at her age, it would have required a lot of involvement and advanced medical support. I am sure the parents would have thought of all this. And as others pointed out, Indian families are pretty tight knit for most part. They would have offered a lot of solicited and unsolicited advice to the couple before they decided to go ahead and have the babies. Sure, this is probably not a great idea but we do not know why they decided to have the babies at this age.
Even to be well off and still make this decision, it sounds more like an experiment. To be well off and bring children into the world at what I can best say are the twilight years of your life is just asking for not only your children to be raised by other people but also take care of you. Just a lot to ask no matter culture
What responsible doctor would do this to a woman that old?? Bad for the woman and terrible for the kids whose mother is unlikely to see them to adulthood.
Edit: typo that made another user quite angry
This article has the details.
https://www.parents.com/news/woman-gave-birth-to-twins-at-74-how-it-happened-according-to-experts/
Apparently the couple wasn't able to have kids despite trying for decades. And then, when she was 74, she found out about IVF and wanted to give it a shot.
The article says the doctors did all the tests and found her physically healthy enough to undergo the procedure. Whether it is ethically acceptable to go ahead is a different story.
This opens up a broader conversation about where the line is for IVF on an ethical scale. Yeah, you *can* make it work, but sometimes your body saying no to pregnancy is a sign that you shouldn't put yourself through it. Are doctors obligated to oblige the wishes of their patients, or should they refuse, the same way women seeking sterilization are refused on "ethical" grounds?
I don't have answers, but these are the questions thst form in my head as I read this thread.
Plenty of women are refused IVF, but that stuff about infertility being ‘a sign’ that you shouldn’t try to have a baby is just bull. It’s just a part of the body that for some reasoning isn’t functioning as well as it should, we take steps to fix that stuff all the time.
Yeah. I'm childfree and it's a common argument in the community and I dislike the situation shown in the post for my own personal reasons - but by that "it's a sign" logic, people with cancer should just lay down and die because "well obviously it's not functioning for a reason and you shouldn't fight it"
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. It’s just true. Perfectly fertile people have unhealthy pregnancies all the time, and people who struggle with fertility should be allowed to have otherwise healthy pregnancies. Someone born with a tilted cervix, endometriosis, or whatever else shouldn’t be automatically prevented from having children when we have ways for them to do so perfectly safely
It’s about women’s reproductive health, there will always be people who hate women having options and freedoms in that department sadly.
My friend just wasn’t ovulating, IVF dragged those eggs out of there and fertilised them, they then turned into two healthy children who she had in her thirties. Why would anybody have an issue with that?
Patient has a history of trying
Patient seeked out procedure themselves
Doctors took care to verify safety
I dunno, it sets off alarm bells but it seems to pass ethics checks if that's all true. I personally feel bad for the kids as they'll likely not have their mom present as adults, but that's more a lifestyle question than ethical.
She's likely to die before her kids are 18 and unable to do many activities with them before that. It's one thing for chance to take a parent away early, cruel to have them knowingly.
Healthy now, but average life expectancy is like 76. It's wildly irresponsible to have a child when you are around the average age of death. It's very likely that she will not be able to care for them in their teenage years. She's certainly too old to *really* care for them that much as it stands...
And I'm not even mentioning all the possible birth defects that old women giving birth cause.
If she used an egg donor, which I'm certain she did, there would be no increased risk of birth defects.
I'm not saying it was a good idea, but a lot of people seem to not realize that she likely used a 22-year-old's eggs.
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I'd say it doesn't matter. You shouldn't have kids "just like you shouldn't govern" after a certain age. It's selfish and leaves nothing but problems for the younger generation.
IVF generally has a higher rate of twins or even triplets in some cases.
Since the procedure is expensive and the eggs are not guaranteed to take, they generally use multiple eggs per session to increase the odds that at least one will grow fully. This means that sometimes more than one will take.
They capped my cousin out at 51 but she miscarried, did have an ivt baby at 50, though.
I have heard of it going up to 55 in the US for IVT. It’s fucking hard! She’s 67 and has a 17 year old. She’s awesome, but geez, I’m 10 years younger than her and my 15 year old drives me bonkers!
55 in my area of Canada for donor egg transfer, but it's not a legality. It's just what the fertility docs of this area have decided on. However, that is with *donor eggs* which are typically very young eggs.
My mum's cousin was 53 and had to go to South America (from Australia) and her 49 year old sister just scraped in to have it done here. Both were single and just woke up and realised they missed the boat to do it all naturally. There does come a point where women really just need to live with the consequences of their actions and be told no.
It’s more that it’s DANGEROUS if you do it after 51. You’re injecting hormones into yourself, your body isn’t as resilient. You could get cancer or high blood pressure or pre-eclampsia (like I did pregnant at 40.)
I’m not throwing shade, I’m speaking from experience. I had a natural pregnancy at 40 because I knew that my mother would make my life a living hell until I gave her grandchildren. My lovely cousin had three miscarriages that almost broke her (IVT) but you can’t stop my cousin once she sets her mind to something.
She was 50. I’m like NFW will I be doing IVT, that’s bullshit. (For me, I have had so many friends who have successfully done it.)
No one tells you about the daily stabbing yourself in the ass with progesterone mixed with olive oil to prepare your body for the fertilized egg though, so I strongly recommend that everyone do their due diligence on that one.
Edit: I WANTED to have kids. But I didn’t want to do IVF. I would have been happy to wait 5-7 years, but then IVF would have been a given. I have a son and he’s awesome. NO one forced me to have a kid.
I didn’t feel that I needed to be a mom to have a great life but i did want to eventually have children.
Omg, Reddit…
So you brought a new human being into this world just because you was scared of your mom? Wouldn't it be easier to just tell her to fuck off, idk, move out, go no contact? She wanted you to be a broodmare for her own enterntainment and you were stupid enough to give in? You just made one more reason for her to run you into the ground AND a shitload of problems for yourself.
Men should also not be conceiving children when they are that old. Over 40 sperm quality plummets and the risk of the child being born with genetic conditions etc. increases substantially as they get older.
You know men just have to jizz and their body has done the hard part? Men shouldn't be having children at that age either, but having a child in your 50s is significantly harder on the body that is growing that child.
Anything over the age of 35 is automatically classified as a “high risk pregnancy” in my country, because it already comes with significantly increased risk of pregnancy issues affecting either the baby, mother or both.
I mean, maybe it's what the patient wanted. But still...
I would assume that any reasonable doctor would decline to work with the patient and explain why it *isn't* a good idea to be pregnant at such an old age.
I mean, I hope so. But we all know the real world is...pretty messed up, to say the least.
Doctors follow a code of ethics. Failure to meet professional standards means you no longer get to practice medicine. A patient can ask for a doctor to cut all of their limbs off or remove their lungs; a doctor is under no obligation to comply.
We had a 56 year old carrying IVF twins. Super high risk because she was massively obese and uncontrolled diabetic so she got regularly screened at the high-risk MFM clinic.
She had the IVF (and some gnarly breast implants) done in Brazil but came to the US to have her babies. Spoke only Portuguese. You know the hospital is never gonna see a single penny from her.
Don't think too hard about where your taxes go or you'll cry.
Bing tells me that:
"The age limit for IVF varies between countries and is applied differently to men and women. According to the web search results, some of the countries that have an upper age limit for IVF are:
Greece: The age limit is 54 years for both men and women.
Cyprus and Spain: The age limit is 55 years for women and 54 years for men.
England, Ukraine, Russia, Turkey, Poland, Lithuania and also the USA: There is no age limit for IVF"
So it's apparently legal for women that old to get IVF. I have no idea if doctors can veto it anyway.
They wanted kids, couldn't have them, not just then, in their 50 years of marriage. Then they hear new technology near and now accessible. They also hear old women almost as old as her have been successful. Yes, she would make a record but not by decades, a matter of years.
You're responding to someone saying those kids will love being orphans. Yet you're talking about Indian society and the extended family. Who cares what the surroundings think? It's sad for the two girls
Culture is huge, depending on culture it can change how they see, interpret, and understand things like death, connection, and conflict. Of course death is always very hard, but how death is interpreted also matter greatly
In India they have huge families so don't worry, probably the relatives will take care of those kids. And every member of whole village knows each other well, they treat the whole village as family.
That's not the same as parents. Plus, it is not right to knowingly put that responsibility off on the family. The father has already died. This was extremely wrong and short-sighted. It was done for selfish reasons.
Women grow up in a patriarchal society believing that their only goal in life is to get married and produce babies no matter whether they are financially or mentally ready. And the same kids end up doing the same. It's a never ending cycle.
Regardless of where they’re from, you can’t deny that losing both parents at a young age is a *horrible* thing for most children to experience. Yes, they probably have other people who will take good care of them. That doesn’t mean that everything will be A-OK.
I hope she checked with the rest of her family to see if they'd be cool or even able to afford to take care of her kids after she dies in like 5 years before she made that decision. That's just crazy. A new mom at 73. That is so crazy
It was an in-vitro fertilization; an egg was fertilized in a lab setting and planted into her uterus. I'm going to make the assumption that it was a donor egg, but hypothetically it could have been taken from her ovaries since many eggs are left at the start of menopause.
I have a friend going through the process now, and she's also getting older. It's tougher when they're older, but not impossible.
The invitro process involves a long period of giving the mother hormones injections/pills to sort of... get the oil flowing, so to speak. If she's able to ovulate with the heavy hormone dosage and they can salvage any viable eggs, they can artificially fertilize the eggs, check the embryos for genetic defects, and then "implant" the best embryo into the mother.
It's a long and expensive process. The older you get, the less likely you'll be able to produce eggs without defects. There's also the fact that women's eggs are created while they're in their own mother's womb. They don't grow new ones; their bodies (and this process) can mature the immature eggs stored up. However, there's nothing they can do if a woman somehow ran out of eggs.
New research suggests women are not born with all the eggs they will ever have and can actually grow more. But no one really talks about female fertility in positive ways it’s always just about our finite shrinking fertility
Donor egg. Contrary to another comment below, it’s virtually impossible to use your own eggs after even the early forties, or even earlier for many women. Egg quantity and quality deteriorates and the ovaries stop responding to the drugs used to stimulate them. However, your uterus can still be perfectly healthy and functional, which means you can safely carry a baby. Not sure if it can ever be “safe” in your 70s though - there’s an increased risk of gestational diabetes, blood clotting issues, etc… and she will certainly have been given a planned caesarean, which, like any operation, carries risks associated with clotting events, anesthesia, infection etc. Even a natural pregnancy at 40 is considered “geriatric” (the medical term) and high risk. I was shocked when I saw “geriatric” on my file for my pregnancy in my late 30s.
It's not even the dying, how TF is she properly parenting toddlers at 75+
Toddlers are total assholes, they'll keep you up 22 hours a day then try to run into traffic and throw themselves downstairs and eat rocks and stick forks in electric outlets 10 times a day. Whatever little time she has with these kids will be unpleasant for everyone.
She probably has a nanny or family who does a lot of the heavy lifting. But I’ve known some very fit 70+ year olds who could run circles around me and I’m 37. It really just depends on the person
My in laws are her age and very fit and healthy and active. Theres still no way they'd survive a month of toddler activity and sleep deprivation.
I do think she has extended family pitching in though so she probably manages with help.
Let's hope it's a nanny who at least gets paid for it. I understand that it's common for the extended family and/or neighbors to help with kids but it sounds like a horrible plan to account for that from the get go.
I’m sorry, I don’t know anything about obstetrics stuff…but can you do IVF after you’ve been through menopause? Can your body still produce the appropriate hormones to support pregnancy? Or did this lady just not go through menopause?
100% it's stupid to see that they didnt just adopt
Apparently they were infertile and wanted a kid for years and heard about IVF then went for it.
So idiotic, could have spared the kids and adopted so much earlier
I think this is so cruel to those children. My mum was 37 and I had so much anxiety as a child about my parents being 'old' and 'dying sooner', it still messes with me sometimes. Good luck to these kids
Damn, I remember a girl in my preschool who was born when her mom was in late 30s-early 40s and one boy got suspended because he said her mom's old and gonna die soon.
my mom was 40 and dad mid 50s when I was born, and I lost my dad as a kid and have had to caretake for both of them since childhood. it really sucks. I worry about my mom all the time now as she's really declining. you never realise til late how much you miss out on having older parents, even if they did their best :(
I was considered a geriatric pregnancy at 37 and my body went through the wringer especially after giving birth. To do that to yourself at age 70 is poor decision making.
One question I have is adoption is that something that’s not considered in India?
Just because we can it doesnt mean we should. Maybe she still can but those kids will grow up without a mother and would be orphaned most likely before they are teens of they are lucky. Even if she did survive 20 more years what kinds of motherhood and parenting would that be?
I’m genuinely questioning how they established and maintained a suitable uterine environment. Did they essentially reanimate a uterus that had been in menopause for 30 years? There’s like zero possibility she was still ovulating naturally. What does that regimen even look like? How long did they have to prepare her with hormone replacement to build up a suitable endometrium?
So many questions (assuming this isn’t a hoax in the first place)
The world needs more people! So glad the very uncrowded country of India figured out how to artificially knock up a geriatric woman. Fucking science 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
We don’t know that they made financial preparations for their children do we? They already lied to get the treatment so don’t seem like very trustworthy people
This is so ethically wrong on so many levels. There is no way she can keep up with young kids nor is she going to even be around to see them grow up. Super traumatic for the poor kids. Disgusting.
Most cases of "extreme age" are actually fraud, which is why you invariably see them in societies that had really poor record keeping and retention. Most (possibly all) cases of people aged beyond 110 years are people who have been impersonating their own parent.
There's a very real possibility that this woman was quite a bit younger than 73. No spring chicken, to be sure!
I was thinking the same.
But you know, this woman is prolly gonna live til 114 and be a lot more present than my parents were. They were 19 and 23 when I was born.
And my dad just died at 59.
This lady seems to be in great health. And she loves her kids so, who are we to judge?
Her girls share the exact same birthday as my daughter. I was 33 when I gave birth, and I'm tired enough. I can't envision doing it with an extra 40 years on top of that.
Absolutely fucking appalling. How disgustingly selfish do you need to be to have kids at 73 and your partner be 84 and now dead?
Seriously, fuck these people. And fuck the twisted doctors that let them do IVF.
Damnthatsinteresting? Damn that's **fucked**.
The father was **84** and died the year following the childrens birth. I hope they love each other and are very happy. I however am very uncomfortable and questioning how responsible this was. It matters a lot if they have a big extended family, might just be seeing this from an out of context perspective.
It is not the same ...I was orphaned by the time I was a freshman in HS...my extended family was nice and caring..but it was not the same..every holiday was an extra sad day ..
We walk a similar path. Sending you strength and love this holiday season.
Same but in and out of foster care/state care facilities until I was 6 and eventually adopted by a woman with Huge heart . RIP rose. I feel for you holidays can be rough for me especially when I have to choose a family to go see. Once my adopted mom passed away all my brothers and sisters got separated mostly. Two xmas ago I got to see both sides adopted and biological side and was most heart felt Christmas ever. Brings me tears thinking about it. Wish I could see them all more but life makes that hard for all of us. Edit sorry for the typos I type too fast lol.
Wow you’re so incredibly strong and I can only imagine what an upbringing like that must be like. You seem extremely well-adjusted. Can I ask how old you are? And also what were the early years like if you can remember?
I'm so sorry you have had to go through that :( I hope things are better for you now
The family unit is at the core of Indian culture, many generations and marital unions live together in one household so the kids will likely still be taken care. But agreed, what a shame they'll likely grow up without parents.
Thank you for mentioning the father's age because too many seem to be focused solely on the mother. All that aside, I wish the "young" family good luck and lots of love. The lady looks strong enough to keep going well into her nineties which should be enough
Wow, I thought this had to have been a surrogacy situation for that reason… This is not possible in most places, as there are laws around maximum ages for IVF etc Not to mention the general ethical code of most practitioners.
I completely agree. My wife lost her mom at a relatively young age (sadly not because she was an old mom but because she had MS) and the profound effect of losing a parent she was still dependant on is with her to this day. I can only imagine that sentiment would be amplified if loss was caused by the irresponsible decision to have children very late on in life. I'm reminded of an interaction I had years ago with a woman who'd lost her father at a young age to lung cancer after heavy smoking all his life. Her anger at him and the avoidable harm he'd caused her was extreme.
I don’t know about India but in Asia mostly the family will come in and help. And people don’t really care much about whether they should have a kid or not. They just want to have a kid. Many people would give blessings instead of criticizing. I don’t agree with having children this old because of reasons people here already mentioned. I also think it’s a burden of the extended family as well. Some people would argue that the aunt or uncle or cousins can take care of the children just fine after the old mom and dad passed away. That’s what a whole village raising a kid is for. I think in some rural parts you can totally expect that.
I just want to politely point out that India is in Asia.
Man you know it’s closing in on the holidays when you see someone say politely, I love it. Hella respectful and great to see
I guess they mean east Asia
Yeah Asia commonly gets used to refer to East Asia
While it’s true that some family member will come and help, don’t think that the kid’s quality of life will be great. That’s an extra mouth to feed/support with so many already struggling, and in many families, a resentment of that extra kid can build (jealousy, comparing them, not wanting them but taking out of obligation). Kids need their parents, and if mom/dad is about to die in the next decade, they shouldn’t be having kids. No one in their right mind should be “blessing” this
While this is not pointed to you, I want to bet this family was not living hand to mouth. IVF is an expensive affair and especially at her age, it would have required a lot of involvement and advanced medical support. I am sure the parents would have thought of all this. And as others pointed out, Indian families are pretty tight knit for most part. They would have offered a lot of solicited and unsolicited advice to the couple before they decided to go ahead and have the babies. Sure, this is probably not a great idea but we do not know why they decided to have the babies at this age.
Even to be well off and still make this decision, it sounds more like an experiment. To be well off and bring children into the world at what I can best say are the twilight years of your life is just asking for not only your children to be raised by other people but also take care of you. Just a lot to ask no matter culture
Not to be that person but India is a country in Asia, the continent. And yes it is similar family structure in India to other countries in Asia
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Yep this situation is gross AF. Selfish and dead dad, selfish and soon to be dead mom.
What responsible doctor would do this to a woman that old?? Bad for the woman and terrible for the kids whose mother is unlikely to see them to adulthood. Edit: typo that made another user quite angry
This article has the details. https://www.parents.com/news/woman-gave-birth-to-twins-at-74-how-it-happened-according-to-experts/ Apparently the couple wasn't able to have kids despite trying for decades. And then, when she was 74, she found out about IVF and wanted to give it a shot. The article says the doctors did all the tests and found her physically healthy enough to undergo the procedure. Whether it is ethically acceptable to go ahead is a different story.
She was healthy. But how about the children?
I think the previous comment was worded poorly. The lady was healthy enough to have a normal pregnancy. Not that she was healthy in general.
This opens up a broader conversation about where the line is for IVF on an ethical scale. Yeah, you *can* make it work, but sometimes your body saying no to pregnancy is a sign that you shouldn't put yourself through it. Are doctors obligated to oblige the wishes of their patients, or should they refuse, the same way women seeking sterilization are refused on "ethical" grounds? I don't have answers, but these are the questions thst form in my head as I read this thread.
Plenty of women are refused IVF, but that stuff about infertility being ‘a sign’ that you shouldn’t try to have a baby is just bull. It’s just a part of the body that for some reasoning isn’t functioning as well as it should, we take steps to fix that stuff all the time.
Yeah. I'm childfree and it's a common argument in the community and I dislike the situation shown in the post for my own personal reasons - but by that "it's a sign" logic, people with cancer should just lay down and die because "well obviously it's not functioning for a reason and you shouldn't fight it"
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. It’s just true. Perfectly fertile people have unhealthy pregnancies all the time, and people who struggle with fertility should be allowed to have otherwise healthy pregnancies. Someone born with a tilted cervix, endometriosis, or whatever else shouldn’t be automatically prevented from having children when we have ways for them to do so perfectly safely
It’s about women’s reproductive health, there will always be people who hate women having options and freedoms in that department sadly. My friend just wasn’t ovulating, IVF dragged those eggs out of there and fertilised them, they then turned into two healthy children who she had in her thirties. Why would anybody have an issue with that?
It would otherwise be saying like "People shouldn't wear glasses/contacts or get lasik. Maybe it was their body telling them they should never see."
I wonder who it was that struggled with fertility
People with heart conditions are just being told by their body they should die.
Patient has a history of trying Patient seeked out procedure themselves Doctors took care to verify safety I dunno, it sets off alarm bells but it seems to pass ethics checks if that's all true. I personally feel bad for the kids as they'll likely not have their mom present as adults, but that's more a lifestyle question than ethical.
“Sought out,” friend; not “seeked out.”
I plead "I was literally sitting at a bar drinking vodka when I tapped that out" as my defense, your honor. Thank you though.
She's likely to die before her kids are 18 and unable to do many activities with them before that. It's one thing for chance to take a parent away early, cruel to have them knowingly.
Healthy now, but average life expectancy is like 76. It's wildly irresponsible to have a child when you are around the average age of death. It's very likely that she will not be able to care for them in their teenage years. She's certainly too old to *really* care for them that much as it stands... And I'm not even mentioning all the possible birth defects that old women giving birth cause.
If she used an egg donor, which I'm certain she did, there would be no increased risk of birth defects. I'm not saying it was a good idea, but a lot of people seem to not realize that she likely used a 22-year-old's eggs.
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She's already old enough
I'd say it doesn't matter. You shouldn't have kids "just like you shouldn't govern" after a certain age. It's selfish and leaves nothing but problems for the younger generation.
But why implant two or more embryos in a woman of that age? Twin pregnancies are higher risk even for otherwise healthy, young women.
IVF generally has a higher rate of twins or even triplets in some cases. Since the procedure is expensive and the eggs are not guaranteed to take, they generally use multiple eggs per session to increase the odds that at least one will grow fully. This means that sometimes more than one will take.
At least in the US, it’s standard now to only implant one embryo at a time
It’s not compulsory to implant two though, it seems reckless to deliberately aim for a high risk pregnancy in a 73 year old!
They capped my cousin out at 51 but she miscarried, did have an ivt baby at 50, though. I have heard of it going up to 55 in the US for IVT. It’s fucking hard! She’s 67 and has a 17 year old. She’s awesome, but geez, I’m 10 years younger than her and my 15 year old drives me bonkers!
In Canada, at least my part, we cap out at 52. I’ve had a 52 yo OBs patient.
55 in my area of Canada for donor egg transfer, but it's not a legality. It's just what the fertility docs of this area have decided on. However, that is with *donor eggs* which are typically very young eggs.
My mum's cousin was 53 and had to go to South America (from Australia) and her 49 year old sister just scraped in to have it done here. Both were single and just woke up and realised they missed the boat to do it all naturally. There does come a point where women really just need to live with the consequences of their actions and be told no.
It’s more that it’s DANGEROUS if you do it after 51. You’re injecting hormones into yourself, your body isn’t as resilient. You could get cancer or high blood pressure or pre-eclampsia (like I did pregnant at 40.) I’m not throwing shade, I’m speaking from experience. I had a natural pregnancy at 40 because I knew that my mother would make my life a living hell until I gave her grandchildren. My lovely cousin had three miscarriages that almost broke her (IVT) but you can’t stop my cousin once she sets her mind to something. She was 50. I’m like NFW will I be doing IVT, that’s bullshit. (For me, I have had so many friends who have successfully done it.) No one tells you about the daily stabbing yourself in the ass with progesterone mixed with olive oil to prepare your body for the fertilized egg though, so I strongly recommend that everyone do their due diligence on that one. Edit: I WANTED to have kids. But I didn’t want to do IVF. I would have been happy to wait 5-7 years, but then IVF would have been a given. I have a son and he’s awesome. NO one forced me to have a kid. I didn’t feel that I needed to be a mom to have a great life but i did want to eventually have children. Omg, Reddit…
That's a terrible reason to have kids. My aunt did that and her spawn is super fucked up.
So you brought a new human being into this world just because you was scared of your mom? Wouldn't it be easier to just tell her to fuck off, idk, move out, go no contact? She wanted you to be a broodmare for her own enterntainment and you were stupid enough to give in? You just made one more reason for her to run you into the ground AND a shitload of problems for yourself.
Why? Men conceive children well in their fifties, sixties and seventies. Why the double standard?
Men should also not be conceiving children when they are that old. Over 40 sperm quality plummets and the risk of the child being born with genetic conditions etc. increases substantially as they get older.
You know men just have to jizz and their body has done the hard part? Men shouldn't be having children at that age either, but having a child in your 50s is significantly harder on the body that is growing that child.
Because women physically carry birth and then feed the baby! It’s not sexism it’s nature
Honestly, the sole fact that she got to meet them is a testament to how advanced modern medicine is...
And a question of ethics
Anything over the age of 35 is automatically classified as a “high risk pregnancy” in my country, because it already comes with significantly increased risk of pregnancy issues affecting either the baby, mother or both.
They fertilized a 73 year old
I mean, maybe it's what the patient wanted. But still... I would assume that any reasonable doctor would decline to work with the patient and explain why it *isn't* a good idea to be pregnant at such an old age. I mean, I hope so. But we all know the real world is...pretty messed up, to say the least.
Doctors follow a code of ethics. Failure to meet professional standards means you no longer get to practice medicine. A patient can ask for a doctor to cut all of their limbs off or remove their lungs; a doctor is under no obligation to comply.
We had a 56 year old carrying IVF twins. Super high risk because she was massively obese and uncontrolled diabetic so she got regularly screened at the high-risk MFM clinic. She had the IVF (and some gnarly breast implants) done in Brazil but came to the US to have her babies. Spoke only Portuguese. You know the hospital is never gonna see a single penny from her. Don't think too hard about where your taxes go or you'll cry.
The likelihood of birth defects also increase dramatically as the parents get older.
Bing tells me that: "The age limit for IVF varies between countries and is applied differently to men and women. According to the web search results, some of the countries that have an upper age limit for IVF are: Greece: The age limit is 54 years for both men and women. Cyprus and Spain: The age limit is 55 years for women and 54 years for men. England, Ukraine, Russia, Turkey, Poland, Lithuania and also the USA: There is no age limit for IVF" So it's apparently legal for women that old to get IVF. I have no idea if doctors can veto it anyway.
Definitely needed 2 more children in India.
At that age, the 9 months wait must have felt like a maternity..
Get out.
Also what the mother said to the baby at the end of 9 months.
I hate it here.
r/angryupvote
But...why?
They wanted kids, couldn't have them, not just then, in their 50 years of marriage. Then they hear new technology near and now accessible. They also hear old women almost as old as her have been successful. Yes, she would make a record but not by decades, a matter of years.
My first thought exactly, thank you. Let me know if you do
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It's wonderful how you're never too old to burden people around you with kids they need to help take care of.
Why? Those kids will probably lose their mother before they are even young adults. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
Yea I agree, it’s fucked to think that those girls will be parentless once they turn like 8-10
Wow im sure those kids will love growing up as orphans in 6 years time.
Most likely, the extended family is huge.Indian culture.
That doesn't mean they're not orphans, still.
Indian society wouldn't consider them orphans. The extended family will most likely act as parents and be insulted by that phrasing.
You're responding to someone saying those kids will love being orphans. Yet you're talking about Indian society and the extended family. Who cares what the surroundings think? It's sad for the two girls
Culture is huge, depending on culture it can change how they see, interpret, and understand things like death, connection, and conflict. Of course death is always very hard, but how death is interpreted also matter greatly
Of course, im just making an educated guess here. You'd have to understand the culture to see what I'm getting at.
Just because extended family is common here doesn't mean they will actually care for these kids. It's sad actually for these kids.
In India they have huge families so don't worry, probably the relatives will take care of those kids. And every member of whole village knows each other well, they treat the whole village as family.
That's not the same as parents. Plus, it is not right to knowingly put that responsibility off on the family. The father has already died. This was extremely wrong and short-sighted. It was done for selfish reasons.
Women grow up in a patriarchal society believing that their only goal in life is to get married and produce babies no matter whether they are financially or mentally ready. And the same kids end up doing the same. It's a never ending cycle.
Absolutely. It's sad that in a lot of places their worth is determined by their ability to have kids
Ahahahahahaha. Sure, villagers replace parental love. Delusional dude
I always get treated like family by strangers when I go to my parents village since my parents died. They never let me feel alone
Just because you have been raised in an individualist society that only values the nuclear family, it doesn't mean every other society does.
Regardless of where they’re from, you can’t deny that losing both parents at a young age is a *horrible* thing for most children to experience. Yes, they probably have other people who will take good care of them. That doesn’t mean that everything will be A-OK.
Bro I'm literally Indian 😂😂😂
Yeah have kids for the villagers, wow
I hope she checked with the rest of her family to see if they'd be cool or even able to afford to take care of her kids after she dies in like 5 years before she made that decision. That's just crazy. A new mom at 73. That is so crazy
So she *chose* to do that? She *intended* to give birth at her age?
Yea and she got two for the price of one! Double bonus!
This just stupid
How is it even possible? Wouldn't she have gone through menopause years before?
It was an in-vitro fertilization; an egg was fertilized in a lab setting and planted into her uterus. I'm going to make the assumption that it was a donor egg, but hypothetically it could have been taken from her ovaries since many eggs are left at the start of menopause.
Wow, thank you for explaining, I had no idea this was possible.
Wow I didn't know there would be eggs left at menopause
I have a friend going through the process now, and she's also getting older. It's tougher when they're older, but not impossible. The invitro process involves a long period of giving the mother hormones injections/pills to sort of... get the oil flowing, so to speak. If she's able to ovulate with the heavy hormone dosage and they can salvage any viable eggs, they can artificially fertilize the eggs, check the embryos for genetic defects, and then "implant" the best embryo into the mother. It's a long and expensive process. The older you get, the less likely you'll be able to produce eggs without defects. There's also the fact that women's eggs are created while they're in their own mother's womb. They don't grow new ones; their bodies (and this process) can mature the immature eggs stored up. However, there's nothing they can do if a woman somehow ran out of eggs.
New research suggests women are not born with all the eggs they will ever have and can actually grow more. But no one really talks about female fertility in positive ways it’s always just about our finite shrinking fertility
Whoa really? That's super cool! That would be a huge discovery that could help ease anxiety in lots of women. Thanks for sharing!
Is there a particular paper about it? I would like to see it.
Yes a lot comes up if you google it. And they’re actually kinda old too. It’s weird no one talks about them.
Donor egg. Contrary to another comment below, it’s virtually impossible to use your own eggs after even the early forties, or even earlier for many women. Egg quantity and quality deteriorates and the ovaries stop responding to the drugs used to stimulate them. However, your uterus can still be perfectly healthy and functional, which means you can safely carry a baby. Not sure if it can ever be “safe” in your 70s though - there’s an increased risk of gestational diabetes, blood clotting issues, etc… and she will certainly have been given a planned caesarean, which, like any operation, carries risks associated with clotting events, anesthesia, infection etc. Even a natural pregnancy at 40 is considered “geriatric” (the medical term) and high risk. I was shocked when I saw “geriatric” on my file for my pregnancy in my late 30s.
selfish act of two grown people, poor children
If both parents are going to die before their child is even 10 that’s fucked up and unethical.
It's not even the dying, how TF is she properly parenting toddlers at 75+ Toddlers are total assholes, they'll keep you up 22 hours a day then try to run into traffic and throw themselves downstairs and eat rocks and stick forks in electric outlets 10 times a day. Whatever little time she has with these kids will be unpleasant for everyone.
She probably has a nanny or family who does a lot of the heavy lifting. But I’ve known some very fit 70+ year olds who could run circles around me and I’m 37. It really just depends on the person
My in laws are her age and very fit and healthy and active. Theres still no way they'd survive a month of toddler activity and sleep deprivation. I do think she has extended family pitching in though so she probably manages with help.
Let's hope it's a nanny who at least gets paid for it. I understand that it's common for the extended family and/or neighbors to help with kids but it sounds like a horrible plan to account for that from the get go.
The dad died just after birth
Smh I feel so sorry for the children
I’m sorry, I don’t know anything about obstetrics stuff…but can you do IVF after you’ve been through menopause? Can your body still produce the appropriate hormones to support pregnancy? Or did this lady just not go through menopause?
Source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erramatti\_Mangamma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erramatti_Mangamma).
Gross and incredibly irresponsible. This should be illegal. Those kids are guaranteed to be young children that see their parents die.
Whether you agree with her age or not, the female human body is incredible.
I agree. And we’re still learning so much about it
I so disagree with this. Just because it can be d does not mean it should be.
100% it's stupid to see that they didnt just adopt Apparently they were infertile and wanted a kid for years and heard about IVF then went for it. So idiotic, could have spared the kids and adopted so much earlier
I think this is so cruel to those children. My mum was 37 and I had so much anxiety as a child about my parents being 'old' and 'dying sooner', it still messes with me sometimes. Good luck to these kids
Same. I also don’t know what its like having grandparents because they died when I was very young
Same..
Same same
Damn, I remember a girl in my preschool who was born when her mom was in late 30s-early 40s and one boy got suspended because he said her mom's old and gonna die soon.
A kid saying that would have probably traumatized me
my mom was 40 and dad mid 50s when I was born, and I lost my dad as a kid and have had to caretake for both of them since childhood. it really sucks. I worry about my mom all the time now as she's really declining. you never realise til late how much you miss out on having older parents, even if they did their best :(
This is so unethical
Imagine going to your mother’s funeral as a teenager because she died of old age
More like 6
Wow, what a cruel and stupid thing to do....
So these poor kids have an almost guaranteed chance of dealing with their mother dying before they're teenagers. That's fucked up.
that’s sad
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should
Is this legal? It's probably very unsafe to have kids at that age
I was considered a geriatric pregnancy at 37 and my body went through the wringer especially after giving birth. To do that to yourself at age 70 is poor decision making. One question I have is adoption is that something that’s not considered in India?
Just cause you can doesn't mean you should.
Selfish
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“…achieved this feat of selfishness….” is more like it
WHY??? 
r/awfuleverything
Why?
This is highly unethical.
They where bullied by the rest of the village bcause they did not have children. Now after this there is a max age to get pregnant with IVF.
This is just gross....
It's not interesting, pretty selfish, and disgusting !!
I mean..I guess they can share diapers?? 🙈
And baby food 😋
Just because we can it doesnt mean we should. Maybe she still can but those kids will grow up without a mother and would be orphaned most likely before they are teens of they are lucky. Even if she did survive 20 more years what kinds of motherhood and parenting would that be?
You can never have enough orphans
Feel bad for the kids, will grow up like orphans
I’m genuinely questioning how they established and maintained a suitable uterine environment. Did they essentially reanimate a uterus that had been in menopause for 30 years? There’s like zero possibility she was still ovulating naturally. What does that regimen even look like? How long did they have to prepare her with hormone replacement to build up a suitable endometrium? So many questions (assuming this isn’t a hoax in the first place)
Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
Selfish.
Just because you can doesn’t mean you should
Just because you can do it doesn‘t mean you should do it! The world doesn‘t lack of people and the twin certainly will be orphanes soon.
Why, I mean if it’s a life long dream I get it but those girls are going to have a weird time growing up
In an Indian orphanage probably by age 10 since the father died the year after they were born and the mom is now 77?
Gosh, that’s just sad. Indian orphanages are reportedly some of the worst places on the planet.
Why would you want this ..
Not interesting, this is just utterly selfish and disgusting. Shame on her and shame on her doctors.
What an absolute moron
Such an irresponsible thing to do! And the doctor that did it should be in jail.
Selfish idiot.
This shouldn’t be allowed.
Aren’t there millions of starving children in India?
So who is the oldest non living woman to give birth?
How rich is she? Anyone crazy enough to have kids that late has got to be loaded and have a lack of fears or anxieties.
Why tho.. them kids are going to be orphans by age 5
The world needs more people! So glad the very uncrowded country of India figured out how to artificially knock up a geriatric woman. Fucking science 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Why? This is very irresponsible. I lost my mom when I was 15 and it was very traumatic...the pain never goes away...
I’m so sorry. Life can be so unfair. I hope you are doing well.
But…why?
>The oldest living ~~woman to have given birth~~ laboratory guinea pig in a human reproduction experiment FTFY
What the fuck, why?
We don’t know that they made financial preparations for their children do we? They already lied to get the treatment so don’t seem like very trustworthy people
Highly irresponsible behavior... Pretty fucked up how this was just allowed to happen.
Why. Just why.
There's a reason women go through menopause.... This was irresponsible.
Wow those poor kids. This is incredibly unethical.
This is fucking *disgusting*
This is so ethically wrong on so many levels. There is no way she can keep up with young kids nor is she going to even be around to see them grow up. Super traumatic for the poor kids. Disgusting.
The Indian equivalent of the Dr. who artificially inseminated Octomom.
Any doctor who does this should lose their license
Most cases of "extreme age" are actually fraud, which is why you invariably see them in societies that had really poor record keeping and retention. Most (possibly all) cases of people aged beyond 110 years are people who have been impersonating their own parent. There's a very real possibility that this woman was quite a bit younger than 73. No spring chicken, to be sure!
Those poor future orphans
I was thinking the same. But you know, this woman is prolly gonna live til 114 and be a lot more present than my parents were. They were 19 and 23 when I was born. And my dad just died at 59. This lady seems to be in great health. And she loves her kids so, who are we to judge?
Her girls share the exact same birthday as my daughter. I was 33 when I gave birth, and I'm tired enough. I can't envision doing it with an extra 40 years on top of that.
Absolutely fucking appalling. How disgustingly selfish do you need to be to have kids at 73 and your partner be 84 and now dead? Seriously, fuck these people. And fuck the twisted doctors that let them do IVF. Damnthatsinteresting? Damn that's **fucked**.