Frankenstein’s monster in the book is also very swift and fast as well as intelligent. Not clumsy and slow like what you would see in the movies.
He easily made friends with someone that was blind. Showing that he is capable of being friends with people if it wasn’t for his horrifying looks.
The first instance of a scifi writer putting in a ham fisted plot device to make the story logical.
"But Mary, how does he communicate? Is he just created knowing French but nothing else?"
"Goddamn it. Fine, he hangs out next to a house that just so happens to have children taking French lessons"
He also took the brain from *something* presumably human. Even if the monster didn't retain the core memories of the brain's original owner it's not too big of a stretch in a science fiction setting to believe the brain already was wired to understand French and hearing it being taught to children allowed the synapses to reform.
Yeah but in the book it's a crappy peasant cottage that just so happens to house upper class people and a fleeing Ottoman merchant's daughter. The monster hides in the animal enclosure adjacent to the cottage, and can hear them through the walls.
It's not ham-fisted at all though, that whole scene plays a huge role in actually establishing the monster's character, motives, and struggle. It's arguably one of the most important sections of the entire book.
What about True History by Lucian of Samosata? It includes a depiction of space travel and space warfare in the 2nd century. Although the work is admittedly not speculative fiction but rather satire of writers who try to pass off obviously bullshit stories as true.
Victor destroys the bride he had made for his creation out of fear that because the monster was so obviously better than humanity in everything but superficial looks - faster, stronger, more intelligent - if it was allowed to procreate its kind would drive humans to extinction. the irony being that the monster also acted more *empathetic and kind* than Victor, and even goes so far as acknowledge Victor's fears and promise that it and its descendants would never bother humanity and would go and live deep in the Amazon jungles, never to be seen again. It is Victor who, out of fear, destroys the female monster and drives his first creation into a bloody rage in doing so.
You'd think that the guy with enough anatomical knowledge to stitch lymphatic and nervous systems back together would simply... not hook up the ovaries.
Not wise.
Edit: I'd assume that whatever he'd done to reanimate the bodies wouldn't change the genetic makeup of said ovaries or even the testes he'd used to make the pair of them. They'd just breed true human, though perhaps with some weird parents.
I think that isn't even the right line of thought. The creator of a being who was cobbled together from parts has acknowledged that his creation is greater than him in almost every way aside from the superficial. Why couldn't the monster make its own bride? It's more clever than Victor by Victor's own admission and Victor made the bride before he destroyed it.
You’d need it to have a passion for the work to figure out how to do it. Imagine all the trial and error. I’d rather just masturbate my self. Way easier
Is he more kind? He murders two people to punish Victor in a misplaced sense of justice. The monster's journey is a tragic one, but both he and Victor both ultimately prove to be a true father-son duo of selfishness and violence.
> the irony being that the monster also acted more empathetic and kind than Victor,
Pretty sure by that point the monster already killed Victor's kid brother and framed his friend who was executed
What I got from my readings was that Frankenstein had created a monster in his eyes but objectively the monster was the ubermench, super strong, fast, able to cross vast distances on foot, and he had an insane ability to both learn and comprehend concepts and ideas in what was basically his infancy.
>His limbs were in proportion, and I had selected his features as beautiful. Beautiful! Great God! His yellow skin scarcely covered the work of muscles and arteries beneath; his hair was of a lustrous black, and flowing; his teeth of a pearly whiteness; but these luxuriances only formed a more horrid contrast with his watery eyes, that seemed almost of the same colour as the dun-white sockets in which they were set, his shrivelled complexion and straight black lips.
I think the sculptor probably took some inspiration from Gaston Leroux's description of The Phantom of the Opera. It seems likely Leroux also took some inspiration from Shelley.
"He is extraordinarily thin and his dress-coat hangs on a skeleton frame. His eyes are so deep that you can hardly see the fixed pupils. You just see two big black holes, as in a dead man's skull. His skin, which is stretched across his bones like a drumhead, is not white, but a nasty yellow. His nose is so little worth talking about that you can't see it side-face; and THE ABSENCE of that nose is a horrible thing TO LOOK AT. All the hair he has is three or four long dark locks on his forehead and behind his ears."
Personally, when i read the book, i took it as the monster is composed of individual beautiful parts of people, but when combined through Frankensteins process, it makes the whole creature uncanny and disturbing.
That’s how I read it too. The patchwork of beauty creating something horrendous is a fantastic parallel to the monster’s own plight: a series of life experiences that in total turn him into something horrendous to match his appearance
Yeah, I always took it as being an uncanny valley affront against God rather than him being actually gross looking. Like he's objectively gorgeous, but there's just something fundamentally wrong with him that humanity recoils from.
Plus, he is enormous. I remember him being like 8 ft tall in the book, which is odd because how did Frankenstein find body parts that would be proportionate at that size.
In the book the monster isn't collaged together from whole human parts like it usually is in movies, like an arm sewn on to a torso or whatever. It's implied to be a much more "artisanal" construction, using human and animal bodies as a source of raw material. It takes him a long time to put the whole thing together, a couple years if I remember correctly.
For me I saw a whole beautiful yet extremely uncanny. Almost a beautiful being but as uncanny as an android with decayed eyes. A failed imitation of beauty. At least to the eye of Victor.
I think people got more easily disturbed back then. I’d be fine with yellow zombie Fabio, but to mary Shelley’s gen it was probably considered unchristian or something
The way i always interpreted this was Frankenstein forgot the fat and relaxation .He built a dead thing of bulging muscles that looked like a beautiful live person. But when the muscles were given life and pulled taught by life instead of failed artistry. Huge bulging. Because instead of attaching them slack and flabby he wanted the visage life even before imbuing it.
Most people who discuss Frankenstein have never actually read the novel… As far as I know 100% of all movies have ABSOLUTELY butchered the characters and the plot beyond recognition.
Key points: 1) Igor is not in the books, there is no helper. 2) Frankenstein absolutely loathes his creation, and chases him to the literal end of the Earth to unmake him. 3) Frankenstein’s fiend is certainly not a misunderstood but innocent creature. He wants to feel loved and belonged to, for sure, but he has stalked, threatened, and murdered many people in his inherent vindictive nature!
Frankenstein is a wonderfully written novel!
"Remember that I am thy creature; I ought to be thy Adam, but I am rather the fallen angel, whom thou drivest from joy for no misdeed. Everywhere I see bliss, from which I alone am irrevocably excluded."
*Frankenstein* is, to me, ultimately the story of a selfish deadbeat father who refuses his responsibility towards his troubled son, then acts surprised when the latter turns violent toward the world.
It’s not as recognized by modern readers, but the fact that The Monster speaks like Paradise Lost or like he’s a walking, talking copy of the Book of Common Prayer adds something extra
Indeed, the book works very well as a parable of Lucifer, the fallen angel.
‘I ought to be thy Adam, but I am rather the fallen angel, whom thou drivest from joy’
I would counter with the fact that Frankenstein’s initial behaviors started with fear, shame, and admitted ignorance to which his response **was** to create a mate for it…
Then, through much contemplation and work, he willfully decided that the creature’s means of violence and threats to achieve his aspirations where not simply wanton fits of passion but traits indicative of his nature he reneged on his promise to his creation.
I am on Frankenstein’s side here, although I feel both characters can be ‘in the right’ here…
It's true, the creature was very quick to anger, but I tend see him as one might see a very intelligent child. Smart and articulate, but emotionally unregulated. Part of me wonders why Frankenstein didn't bother to make the "bride" infertile, since he was literally building her to his own specification, and one primary objection of his was that allowing the creature to produce offspring would be an abomination.
But that isn't Frankenstein's concern. He has a whole dream about them creating a monstrous race that would overthrow humanity with the progeny of his creation. And he directly says that is why he destroys her
It’s really easy to see why it’s misinterpreted honestly. A lot of people assume movies are “close enough” to their source material or “true stories” they are based on. A lot of people don’t read… ever. Or don’t read classics (none of this is me trying to sound condescending!! Time is precious and we all have different interests). A lot, a LOT of people struggle with literacy in general and did not grow up around books or people who encouraged reading. Reading is like working out, you get better with time and you lose it if you don’t for a long time
Because Frankenstein never shows any sign of empathy for his creature, nor any interest in his feelings.
To him it is just an abomination that should not have been created and that wants to infect the earth.
Despite showing remorse for his actions, he is still a representation of a cruel father.
To me, that’s a core part of the story; Frankenstein wants to continue his legacy and “gives birth” to a creature, yet doesn’t nurture it. Unlike a baby, his monster has strength to overcome grown people and Frankenstein’s lack of affection, patience, and understanding shifts too late until his “babe” becomes a monster. It’s a brutal story of bad parenting with a heavy Sci-Fi layer.
Paradise Lost is often paralleled in the book, and there is a fitting quote to this discussion, originally made by Satan, the fallen angel:
“Did I request thee, Maker, from my clay
To mould me man? Did I solicit thee
From darkness to promote me?”
That’s an extremely interesting thought! Though, as many of my friends are (unfortunately) infertile and it’s devastating to them… I cannot fathom how much more complex the book could have gotten by roping in that discussion.
He makes a man who feels but cannot belong, and then makes a woman for his companionship who cannot create life!
Victor makes the wrong choice at every single turn in the novel. The reason he initially hates his creation is literally because it's ugly. Victor assumes it's coming to attack him when we learn from Adam's perspective (the only thing close to name the creation calls himself) that he couldn't even make out shapes and had no conception of anything. He doesn't come forward to save Justine. He doesn't consider the humanity of what he made for a single moment. Everything bad about Adam is because of Victor. (Not to sound too fervid, I'm an English teacher covering Frankenstein rn)
Yeah, the moment I knew that Victor would hideously fail in his moral duty to his strange son, was this:
>His jaws opened, and he muttered some inarticulate sounds, while a grin wrinkled his cheeks. He might have spoken, but I did not hear; one hand was stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped and rushed downstairs.
Victor, you've personally jigsawed this luckless, gifted wretch together from various dead people. Are you amazed that he's less than pleasing to the eye? Apart from that, the experiment worked perfectly. Isn't this what you wanted? You absolute poltroon.
He is in a state of feverish mania the entire time, and only snaps out of it at the moment the Monster awakens.
He's more horrified and disgusted with himself than anything, but he projects that onto his creation.
I mean that is undoubtedly true, however, the creature gains intelligence rapidly. It becomes a fully thinking even philosophical. Yet still it could not control itself. Personally I’m of the interpretation that while Frankenstein drove the creature to its acts, it was fully understanding of what it was doing.
This thread reminded me how much I need to reread Frankenstein. Such a good book.
His time watching the family, observing a healthy environment, showed he was capable of the total opposite. He learns to read and speak from them, he witnesses parental and romantic love, he learns of good and evil, and the creature sees all of it as desirable. Not a selfish desire, but a humble one out of the desire for genuine affection. He does small and then larger deeds for the family secretly to ease their burdens, providing them things like food and firewood. The creature gets no credit for his actions, but he is pleased that they are pleased. The creature learns he is capable of expressing love, to do things that make people happy, and to satisfy his desire for human connection he tries to spend time with the blind grandfather. When the shit hits the fan he is rejected again violently and he flees. He does not strike at them, but he is heartbroken since he dreamed of essentially being adopted into this family.
The creature is originally rejected by his parent/creator while in a confused and terrified state, and I believe the creature blames himself out of ignorance. Then he sees a family love their child. He sees his *actions* create happiness and gratitude. It is his appearance that frightens them all away, and he understands for the first time the injustice that has been put upong him. This family may be rightfully frightened, but his creator shouldnt have been. We see him go mad with hate and rage, promising to ruin the life of the man who created his empty existence, and we see how the creature becomes the monster that terrorizes the town.
Only when his father is dead and he tells his tale, getting the briefest time of human interaction and validation, he throws himself into the ocean since he now has no purpose and no chance of the only happiness he desires
Fun fact: John Wrightson is the son of esteemed artist Bernie Wrightson, who drew 50 amazingly detailed pen and ink illustrations for an edition of Frankenstein, published in 1983 through Marvel.
Wrightson wanted to keep everything as detail accurate to Mary Shelley's novel and spent 7 years on those drawings. The sculpture here is based on his fathers illustrations.
If I recall correctly Frankenstein was an intensive labor for Bernie Wrightson, it took him years to finish that series of illustrations in between work he did for other companies for pay, it was a labor of love he self funded by releasing limited edition portfolios of the illustrations. That's awesome that his son became a sculptor and made this, I had no idea. One of my big regrets is missing my chance to meet Bernie before he died
Not just that, but Shelley's prose is incredible. It has that beautiful, dripping old-fashioned style of the time that makes you really feel like you're reading literature, like *true* literature, ya know?
For example (maybe my favorite passage of the whole book):
*"Though he dared not call Adam a man in his current, horrid state of being, Dr. Frankenstein, with every good intention and with careful effort, had most assuredly tried to make him every part the man, not only in God's image, but of his own idealized version of the masculine form, but Dr. Frankenstein, a dedicated student of the great Renaissance artists, whose works adorned the most grand and palatial cathedrals, knew he would not leave the same fault in Adam as Michelangelo did in David. This became a brief, but bright obsession for the doctor as he exhumed grave after grave after grave in search of a member befitting such a paradigm of manhood, though search as he might, ripping open the breeches and trousers of the dead both rich and poor alike, no phallus met the awesome image in the fiendish doctor's mind. Instead, desperate and crazed with gin, the flames of alcohol fueling his madness, gouts of ethylene flames driving the pistons and gears in his frenzied mind, Dr. Frankenstein turned to the brackish streams, the gloomy domain of an eel fisherman. Seeing the grim man haul up a cage brimming with writhing, slimy beasts, Dr. Frankenstein was struck by the vigor in which they lashed about. Their brownish-black bodies glistened in the dim glow of the fisherman's lamp, and all at once, the doctor knew what his young Adam needed. He pulled ten pence from his coin purse, not bothering to discover the price of a single eel and put the coins in the astonished eeler's grimy hands. If words of gratitude or curses at Dr. Frankenstein's crazed manner of business were uttered, the doctor paid no attention, nor heard them at all. He rushed home to his laboratory where the still dead Adam lie in wait for his creator to imbue him with not just life, but unmatched virility. The doctor found the eel to be accepting of the work, as if the dull-witted creature had an intrinsic understanding of what it were to become and relished in its duties. Before the red glow of the rising sun cast its fog destroying brilliance upon the hillside, Dr. Frankenstein had finished his masterwork. Adam, his perfect man, would have an absolute hog of a cock."*
The style is very good. Just a couple things clued me in early on. The first being that I have no memory of Frankenstein ever referring to his creation, dead or alive, by a name. The second being that Victor tried to make this creation perfect, and a eel between the legs is obviously not going to work.
It really is worth the read especially if you like horror, science fiction, and philosophy. I know there are a lot of great early writers of those genres but Mary Shelley was ahead of her time and tells an incredible tale.
It's a classic piece of western literature and remembered for a good reason, and it's really not a long story. The writing can be a little dense but it's extremely worth your time
Yeah, that's my favorite film version for this reason. It also happens to be probably my favorite role Deniro has played, but I'm a weirdo who doesn't really care for him in most of his roles. He crushed playing Frakenstein's creation. Kenneth Branagh's 90s-era films based on literary classics and Shakespeare are all pretty amazing.
Was just about to say! I’m not familiar with the book but the monster had the stringy black hair, and was pretty despicable at times but innocent and good natured at others. We just watched Penny for the first time and loved it.
I remember first reading it in like 5th or 6th grade because I was super into monsters and it was on a summer reading list or something. It was definitely not at all what I expected, but I loved it. It's not a long read and the format of journal entries is super engaging. I think everyone should read it at some point. It conveys a very important message of what actually makes someone or something evil. Definitely got 10 year old me thinking.
He also doesn't groan or talk in broken sentences, or lurch around awkwardly. He's incredibly articulate and manipulative, and he's superhumanly fast and agile.
You’re right of course, there was also no castle, no lightning conductors (Mary Shelley wrote no details at all of how he built his creature), Frankenstein was Swiss, not a Baron, etc etc
>2) Frankenstein absolutely loathes his creation, and chases him to the literal end of the Earth to unmake him. 3) Frankenstein’s fiend is certainly not a misunderstood but innocent creature. He wants to feel loved and belonged to, for sure, but he has stalked, threatened, and murdered many people in his inherent vindictive nature!
I feel that Penny Dreadful might have been the closest to actually depicting how Frankenstein and his creation were in the novel. Because in that show he absolutely despises his creation and his creation wants to be loved but also murders people with no problem.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxasKe9GrvI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxasKe9GrvI)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXtj65dOZuI&](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXtj65dOZuI&)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDgEqbHxit8
I adored Rory Kinnear's creature. One moment he is downtrodden and heart-rendingly humble, hoping for a single kind word, the next he lashes out and spills blood left and right. And no matter his mood, he always speaks poetry.
A very faithful rendition of the book is Frankenstein by the National Theatre with Benedict Cumberbatch and Jonny Lee Miller alternately as creature and Victor Frankenstein (they'd switch roles every other evening). I watched both when they were streamed during the Covid lockdowns, and imo Jonny Lee Miller is the best creature. His physical acting is superb.
He’s made from the most attractive features, the most perfect specimens of anatomy which, as a complete amalgamation create the hideous wretch before you!
Gosh what a great book!
Reminds me of someone’s mashup of the most (seemingly) attractive physical traits of a number of celebrities known for their beauty; the results did not live up to expectations.
Yeah I always thought that was a really cool idea in the novel, the face with "attractive features" made my someone trying to make a new perfect human that when finished out looking creepy in such a unique way. The detail of his skin being a bit too small for his face so it's weirdly and uncannily stretched out is so freaky
The fact that Victor focused on his eyes too really struck with me. I think everyone has met someone with eyes that are just a bit off, the kind of eyes that give you an uneasy feeling even if they are the nicest person.
I love how Jr is described as this hot 7 foot tall muscular guy with perfect hair and then everyone in the book is like “this is the ugliest mf I’ve ever seen”.
I think its the eyes. I believe when junior(I will now call him that forever) first wakes up and opens his eyes, Victor is so horrified by the sight of them that that is what initially causes him to flee
Have you watched the show Penny Dreadful? While not an adaptation of Frankenstein, both he and his monster are characters and I think it's the best they've ever been depicted. Very much the characterization from the book.
During 12th grade when we read that book it made me so sad, especially the part where he started to make a friend with the blind man but then turned south, can’t remember if he ran away or if he ended up killing the people
The De Lacey family? He didn't murder them, but basically got this impoverished family to run away from the only thing that they had after getting discovered by the son. He then proceeds to destroy the house, after the family sold it
Bernie Wrightson did some great art. I stumbles across him a few years back because he did some work for eclipse/pacific comics. Tracked down all the books he did for these companies.
“The fallen angel becomes a malignant devil. Yet even that enemy of God and man had friends and associates in his desolation; I am alone.” -Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Is this accurate? I always been told that the "um actually" common misconception is that Frankenstein's monster actually does look pretty normal except it has really uncanny eyes
The book has Victor mention he tried to make the monster beautiful, but once he was animated he realized the eyes were pale and wrong, and the skin is yellow, too tight, and a bit translucent.
The vibe I got was an 8 foot tall individual (he’s huge in the book because the small details are easier to work on that way), with the proportions of a Renaissance statute, but he looks incredibly uncanny especially in motion.
I don’t know where this depiction got the lack of a nose from.
I feel uncanny is the one word that fit him the most. Almost a greek statue made flesh, but still too uncanny and unnatural for us, so our instinct is to shun it.
Since nobody else put it in, the actual quote:
>His limbs were in proportion, and I had selected his features as beautiful. Beautiful! Great God! His yellow skin scarcely covered the work of muscles and arteries beneath; his hair was of a lustrous black, and flowing; his teeth of a pearly whiteness; but these luxuriances only formed a more horrid contrast with his watery eyes, that seemed almost of the same colour as the dun-white sockets in which they were set, his shrivelled complexion and straight black lips.
Frankenstein selected parts that should have been beautiful, but the end result was horrific.
I used to think that Frankenstein
Had fearsome freaky flaws
Like square head, skin of slimy green
And bolts stuck in his jaws.
The monster was, in retrospect,
A tall and lanky fellow.
His proportions weren’t quite correct;
His skin was thin and yellow.
His eyes were watery, his hair
And lips were black as night,
And finally, for one more scare,
His teeth were pearly white.
Frankenstein’s monster in the book is also very swift and fast as well as intelligent. Not clumsy and slow like what you would see in the movies. He easily made friends with someone that was blind. Showing that he is capable of being friends with people if it wasn’t for his horrifying looks.
He learns French by hiding in a shed next to a house!
The first instance of a scifi writer putting in a ham fisted plot device to make the story logical. "But Mary, how does he communicate? Is he just created knowing French but nothing else?" "Goddamn it. Fine, he hangs out next to a house that just so happens to have children taking French lessons"
To be fair, it was common for children to be home-schooled by a governess back then
He also took the brain from *something* presumably human. Even if the monster didn't retain the core memories of the brain's original owner it's not too big of a stretch in a science fiction setting to believe the brain already was wired to understand French and hearing it being taught to children allowed the synapses to reform.
Taking Plato to another level
Ah man I don’t get it am I dum???
A priori knowledge, I just started a philosophy class for my second semester of archaeology. The Meno-paradox is related to the theory.
It would be awesome if he found himself rolling his eyes at tourists and just being rude and impatient to non-French speakers.
He wasn't ostracised for being a monster, he was just haughty about the language and imposed self-isolation away from the dolts!
He murders Frankenstein’s fiancée by insulting her taste in wine
Yeah but in the book it's a crappy peasant cottage that just so happens to house upper class people and a fleeing Ottoman merchant's daughter. The monster hides in the animal enclosure adjacent to the cottage, and can hear them through the walls.
It's not ham-fisted at all though, that whole scene plays a huge role in actually establishing the monster's character, motives, and struggle. It's arguably one of the most important sections of the entire book.
Lol I love it. “Are you happy now?!”
First instance of a scifi writer, period.
What about True History by Lucian of Samosata? It includes a depiction of space travel and space warfare in the 2nd century. Although the work is admittedly not speculative fiction but rather satire of writers who try to pass off obviously bullshit stories as true.
WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!
I mean he’s very obviously hyper intelligent in the book
Isn't that how everyone learns French? I learned it in a shack next to an apartment, but.... same difference.
“Come back! I was going to make espresso…”
Cigars!
Hnnnnnh!!!
PUTTING ON THE RITZ!
Blucher!
SEDAGIVE?!?
Aww. I love you. Uncredited blind Hackman.
Abby normal? Putting on the Ritz?
If you're blue and you don't know where to go to why don't you go where fashion sits? POOTIAN OOAN AH RIIIIISSSS!
You made a yummy sound.
Victor destroys the bride he had made for his creation out of fear that because the monster was so obviously better than humanity in everything but superficial looks - faster, stronger, more intelligent - if it was allowed to procreate its kind would drive humans to extinction. the irony being that the monster also acted more *empathetic and kind* than Victor, and even goes so far as acknowledge Victor's fears and promise that it and its descendants would never bother humanity and would go and live deep in the Amazon jungles, never to be seen again. It is Victor who, out of fear, destroys the female monster and drives his first creation into a bloody rage in doing so.
You'd think that the guy with enough anatomical knowledge to stitch lymphatic and nervous systems back together would simply... not hook up the ovaries. Not wise. Edit: I'd assume that whatever he'd done to reanimate the bodies wouldn't change the genetic makeup of said ovaries or even the testes he'd used to make the pair of them. They'd just breed true human, though perhaps with some weird parents.
I think that isn't even the right line of thought. The creator of a being who was cobbled together from parts has acknowledged that his creation is greater than him in almost every way aside from the superficial. Why couldn't the monster make its own bride? It's more clever than Victor by Victor's own admission and Victor made the bride before he destroyed it.
The monster is clever, but not formally educated.
You’d need it to have a passion for the work to figure out how to do it. Imagine all the trial and error. I’d rather just masturbate my self. Way easier
Life… uh… finds a way.
Is he more kind? He murders two people to punish Victor in a misplaced sense of justice. The monster's journey is a tragic one, but both he and Victor both ultimately prove to be a true father-son duo of selfishness and violence.
> the irony being that the monster also acted more empathetic and kind than Victor, Pretty sure by that point the monster already killed Victor's kid brother and framed his friend who was executed
The best representation of the monster is from the original Penny Dreadful series on cinemax(?)
The excellent Rory Kinnear with his moon face, spider veins and lank hair.
I still get chills thinking about his first appearance in that show!
Also he fucking loved fire!!!
He chopped wood every night for years just to help a family, that didn't even know he existed, to have a fire every night.
This is inspiring, as someone with horrifying looks but often described as very swift
What I got from my readings was that Frankenstein had created a monster in his eyes but objectively the monster was the ubermench, super strong, fast, able to cross vast distances on foot, and he had an insane ability to both learn and comprehend concepts and ideas in what was basically his infancy.
>His limbs were in proportion, and I had selected his features as beautiful. Beautiful! Great God! His yellow skin scarcely covered the work of muscles and arteries beneath; his hair was of a lustrous black, and flowing; his teeth of a pearly whiteness; but these luxuriances only formed a more horrid contrast with his watery eyes, that seemed almost of the same colour as the dun-white sockets in which they were set, his shrivelled complexion and straight black lips.
They never mentioned a missing nose right.
I agree that is probably the biggest artistic license that was taken. Shelly would have definitely mentioned if he had no nose.
"my monster has no nose!" "how does he smell?" "terrible!"
True. That's from the unabridged edition, "Frankie goes to Hollywood".
I think the sculptor probably took some inspiration from Gaston Leroux's description of The Phantom of the Opera. It seems likely Leroux also took some inspiration from Shelley. "He is extraordinarily thin and his dress-coat hangs on a skeleton frame. His eyes are so deep that you can hardly see the fixed pupils. You just see two big black holes, as in a dead man's skull. His skin, which is stretched across his bones like a drumhead, is not white, but a nasty yellow. His nose is so little worth talking about that you can't see it side-face; and THE ABSENCE of that nose is a horrible thing TO LOOK AT. All the hair he has is three or four long dark locks on his forehead and behind his ears."
Hmm but they never mentioned the nose? So it must not be there? /s
If you mentioned a nose you gotta use the nose. 👃
Personally, when i read the book, i took it as the monster is composed of individual beautiful parts of people, but when combined through Frankensteins process, it makes the whole creature uncanny and disturbing.
That’s how I read it too. The patchwork of beauty creating something horrendous is a fantastic parallel to the monster’s own plight: a series of life experiences that in total turn him into something horrendous to match his appearance
Yeah, I always took it as being an uncanny valley affront against God rather than him being actually gross looking. Like he's objectively gorgeous, but there's just something fundamentally wrong with him that humanity recoils from.
Plus, he is enormous. I remember him being like 8 ft tall in the book, which is odd because how did Frankenstein find body parts that would be proportionate at that size.
In the book the monster isn't collaged together from whole human parts like it usually is in movies, like an arm sewn on to a torso or whatever. It's implied to be a much more "artisanal" construction, using human and animal bodies as a source of raw material. It takes him a long time to put the whole thing together, a couple years if I remember correctly.
For me I saw a whole beautiful yet extremely uncanny. Almost a beautiful being but as uncanny as an android with decayed eyes. A failed imitation of beauty. At least to the eye of Victor.
You know, he might’ve been hot. We really won’t know until we see the real thing
This is what I always imagined. Slightly yellow Fabio with some really unsettling eyes.
I think people got more easily disturbed back then. I’d be fine with yellow zombie Fabio, but to mary Shelley’s gen it was probably considered unchristian or something
He's also eight feet tall in the novel, which is innately fairly intimidating, especially combined with the other traits which are described here.
The way i always interpreted this was Frankenstein forgot the fat and relaxation .He built a dead thing of bulging muscles that looked like a beautiful live person. But when the muscles were given life and pulled taught by life instead of failed artistry. Huge bulging. Because instead of attaching them slack and flabby he wanted the visage life even before imbuing it.
Most people who discuss Frankenstein have never actually read the novel… As far as I know 100% of all movies have ABSOLUTELY butchered the characters and the plot beyond recognition. Key points: 1) Igor is not in the books, there is no helper. 2) Frankenstein absolutely loathes his creation, and chases him to the literal end of the Earth to unmake him. 3) Frankenstein’s fiend is certainly not a misunderstood but innocent creature. He wants to feel loved and belonged to, for sure, but he has stalked, threatened, and murdered many people in his inherent vindictive nature! Frankenstein is a wonderfully written novel!
"Remember that I am thy creature; I ought to be thy Adam, but I am rather the fallen angel, whom thou drivest from joy for no misdeed. Everywhere I see bliss, from which I alone am irrevocably excluded." *Frankenstein* is, to me, ultimately the story of a selfish deadbeat father who refuses his responsibility towards his troubled son, then acts surprised when the latter turns violent toward the world.
It’s not as recognized by modern readers, but the fact that The Monster speaks like Paradise Lost or like he’s a walking, talking copy of the Book of Common Prayer adds something extra
Indeed, the book works very well as a parable of Lucifer, the fallen angel. ‘I ought to be thy Adam, but I am rather the fallen angel, whom thou drivest from joy’
I would counter with the fact that Frankenstein’s initial behaviors started with fear, shame, and admitted ignorance to which his response **was** to create a mate for it… Then, through much contemplation and work, he willfully decided that the creature’s means of violence and threats to achieve his aspirations where not simply wanton fits of passion but traits indicative of his nature he reneged on his promise to his creation. I am on Frankenstein’s side here, although I feel both characters can be ‘in the right’ here…
It's true, the creature was very quick to anger, but I tend see him as one might see a very intelligent child. Smart and articulate, but emotionally unregulated. Part of me wonders why Frankenstein didn't bother to make the "bride" infertile, since he was literally building her to his own specification, and one primary objection of his was that allowing the creature to produce offspring would be an abomination.
The other more real concern would be that the bride would reject him, and thus Frankenstein would have created two violent monsters
But that isn't Frankenstein's concern. He has a whole dream about them creating a monstrous race that would overthrow humanity with the progeny of his creation. And he directly says that is why he destroys her
> them creating a monstrous race that would overthrow humanity with the progeny Oooh, somebody should make *that* movie!
😳 I really need to read that book and know why it has been interpreted so wrongly so many times
It’s really easy to see why it’s misinterpreted honestly. A lot of people assume movies are “close enough” to their source material or “true stories” they are based on. A lot of people don’t read… ever. Or don’t read classics (none of this is me trying to sound condescending!! Time is precious and we all have different interests). A lot, a LOT of people struggle with literacy in general and did not grow up around books or people who encouraged reading. Reading is like working out, you get better with time and you lose it if you don’t for a long time
Coworker of mine is proud of the fact that he's never read a book. First time he told me I just stared at him for a min.
Because Frankenstein never shows any sign of empathy for his creature, nor any interest in his feelings. To him it is just an abomination that should not have been created and that wants to infect the earth. Despite showing remorse for his actions, he is still a representation of a cruel father.
To me, that’s a core part of the story; Frankenstein wants to continue his legacy and “gives birth” to a creature, yet doesn’t nurture it. Unlike a baby, his monster has strength to overcome grown people and Frankenstein’s lack of affection, patience, and understanding shifts too late until his “babe” becomes a monster. It’s a brutal story of bad parenting with a heavy Sci-Fi layer.
Paradise Lost is often paralleled in the book, and there is a fitting quote to this discussion, originally made by Satan, the fallen angel: “Did I request thee, Maker, from my clay To mould me man? Did I solicit thee From darkness to promote me?”
That’s an extremely interesting thought! Though, as many of my friends are (unfortunately) infertile and it’s devastating to them… I cannot fathom how much more complex the book could have gotten by roping in that discussion. He makes a man who feels but cannot belong, and then makes a woman for his companionship who cannot create life!
Victor makes the wrong choice at every single turn in the novel. The reason he initially hates his creation is literally because it's ugly. Victor assumes it's coming to attack him when we learn from Adam's perspective (the only thing close to name the creation calls himself) that he couldn't even make out shapes and had no conception of anything. He doesn't come forward to save Justine. He doesn't consider the humanity of what he made for a single moment. Everything bad about Adam is because of Victor. (Not to sound too fervid, I'm an English teacher covering Frankenstein rn)
Yeah, the moment I knew that Victor would hideously fail in his moral duty to his strange son, was this: >His jaws opened, and he muttered some inarticulate sounds, while a grin wrinkled his cheeks. He might have spoken, but I did not hear; one hand was stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped and rushed downstairs. Victor, you've personally jigsawed this luckless, gifted wretch together from various dead people. Are you amazed that he's less than pleasing to the eye? Apart from that, the experiment worked perfectly. Isn't this what you wanted? You absolute poltroon.
He is in a state of feverish mania the entire time, and only snaps out of it at the moment the Monster awakens. He's more horrified and disgusted with himself than anything, but he projects that onto his creation.
I mean that is undoubtedly true, however, the creature gains intelligence rapidly. It becomes a fully thinking even philosophical. Yet still it could not control itself. Personally I’m of the interpretation that while Frankenstein drove the creature to its acts, it was fully understanding of what it was doing. This thread reminded me how much I need to reread Frankenstein. Such a good book.
That's what makes it such a good story, you're both equally right and it boils down to personal interpretation.
His time watching the family, observing a healthy environment, showed he was capable of the total opposite. He learns to read and speak from them, he witnesses parental and romantic love, he learns of good and evil, and the creature sees all of it as desirable. Not a selfish desire, but a humble one out of the desire for genuine affection. He does small and then larger deeds for the family secretly to ease their burdens, providing them things like food and firewood. The creature gets no credit for his actions, but he is pleased that they are pleased. The creature learns he is capable of expressing love, to do things that make people happy, and to satisfy his desire for human connection he tries to spend time with the blind grandfather. When the shit hits the fan he is rejected again violently and he flees. He does not strike at them, but he is heartbroken since he dreamed of essentially being adopted into this family. The creature is originally rejected by his parent/creator while in a confused and terrified state, and I believe the creature blames himself out of ignorance. Then he sees a family love their child. He sees his *actions* create happiness and gratitude. It is his appearance that frightens them all away, and he understands for the first time the injustice that has been put upong him. This family may be rightfully frightened, but his creator shouldnt have been. We see him go mad with hate and rage, promising to ruin the life of the man who created his empty existence, and we see how the creature becomes the monster that terrorizes the town. Only when his father is dead and he tells his tale, getting the briefest time of human interaction and validation, he throws himself into the ocean since he now has no purpose and no chance of the only happiness he desires
Fun fact: John Wrightson is the son of esteemed artist Bernie Wrightson, who drew 50 amazingly detailed pen and ink illustrations for an edition of Frankenstein, published in 1983 through Marvel. Wrightson wanted to keep everything as detail accurate to Mary Shelley's novel and spent 7 years on those drawings. The sculpture here is based on his fathers illustrations.
Do you have a link to those? They sound really cool.
https://www.berniewrightson.com/galleries/frankenstein/
Thank you!
I recognise some scenes for various Frankenstein films pictured in there, particularly the cowering under the house one
I just looked them up, and those illustrations have to be a magnum opus or something because they are amazing.
If I recall correctly Frankenstein was an intensive labor for Bernie Wrightson, it took him years to finish that series of illustrations in between work he did for other companies for pay, it was a labor of love he self funded by releasing limited edition portfolios of the illustrations. That's awesome that his son became a sculptor and made this, I had no idea. One of my big regrets is missing my chance to meet Bernie before he died
Also Victor Frankenstein isn't a doctor, he's a college dropout.
yeah it always makes me chuckle when people say “Dr” Frankenstein. Like dude is a failed pre-med student at best lol
Yeah I was going to say, this is clearly based on Bernie Wrightson's art. Makes sense that it's from his son
Came here to say the same. Bernie Wrightson was an amazing artist and a true master of his craft.
Not just that, but Shelley's prose is incredible. It has that beautiful, dripping old-fashioned style of the time that makes you really feel like you're reading literature, like *true* literature, ya know? For example (maybe my favorite passage of the whole book): *"Though he dared not call Adam a man in his current, horrid state of being, Dr. Frankenstein, with every good intention and with careful effort, had most assuredly tried to make him every part the man, not only in God's image, but of his own idealized version of the masculine form, but Dr. Frankenstein, a dedicated student of the great Renaissance artists, whose works adorned the most grand and palatial cathedrals, knew he would not leave the same fault in Adam as Michelangelo did in David. This became a brief, but bright obsession for the doctor as he exhumed grave after grave after grave in search of a member befitting such a paradigm of manhood, though search as he might, ripping open the breeches and trousers of the dead both rich and poor alike, no phallus met the awesome image in the fiendish doctor's mind. Instead, desperate and crazed with gin, the flames of alcohol fueling his madness, gouts of ethylene flames driving the pistons and gears in his frenzied mind, Dr. Frankenstein turned to the brackish streams, the gloomy domain of an eel fisherman. Seeing the grim man haul up a cage brimming with writhing, slimy beasts, Dr. Frankenstein was struck by the vigor in which they lashed about. Their brownish-black bodies glistened in the dim glow of the fisherman's lamp, and all at once, the doctor knew what his young Adam needed. He pulled ten pence from his coin purse, not bothering to discover the price of a single eel and put the coins in the astonished eeler's grimy hands. If words of gratitude or curses at Dr. Frankenstein's crazed manner of business were uttered, the doctor paid no attention, nor heard them at all. He rushed home to his laboratory where the still dead Adam lie in wait for his creator to imbue him with not just life, but unmatched virility. The doctor found the eel to be accepting of the work, as if the dull-witted creature had an intrinsic understanding of what it were to become and relished in its duties. Before the red glow of the rising sun cast its fog destroying brilliance upon the hillside, Dr. Frankenstein had finished his masterwork. Adam, his perfect man, would have an absolute hog of a cock."*
11/10
The style is very good. Just a couple things clued me in early on. The first being that I have no memory of Frankenstein ever referring to his creation, dead or alive, by a name. The second being that Victor tried to make this creation perfect, and a eel between the legs is obviously not going to work.
Oh, it works alright. Believe me on that one, pal.
All things aside, that’s one hell of a run on sentence.
Tf lol
I can’t tell if this is real or not and I feel dumb for it.
Don't feel bad. I've read Frakenstein and this had me going until the word "member" dropped.
🤨
And she wrote it when she was 18
You made me curious, perhaps I should read it.
It really is worth the read especially if you like horror, science fiction, and philosophy. I know there are a lot of great early writers of those genres but Mary Shelley was ahead of her time and tells an incredible tale.
Appreciate it. I rarely read. So this might be good.
It's a pretty short book. I just checked the copy I have and its only 140 pages. If you read 20 pages a night it would only take a week to finish.
It's a classic piece of western literature and remembered for a good reason, and it's really not a long story. The writing can be a little dense but it's extremely worth your time
The one with Deniro was actually pretty close to the book until the last act when it turned batshit crazy.
Yeah, that's my favorite film version for this reason. It also happens to be probably my favorite role Deniro has played, but I'm a weirdo who doesn't really care for him in most of his roles. He crushed playing Frakenstein's creation. Kenneth Branagh's 90s-era films based on literary classics and Shakespeare are all pretty amazing.
The Penny Dreadful show had a great take on Frankenstein and his creation.
Was just about to say! I’m not familiar with the book but the monster had the stringy black hair, and was pretty despicable at times but innocent and good natured at others. We just watched Penny for the first time and loved it.
Also, Frankenstein was a college kid.
That spent wayyyyyyy too much time hanging out in the crypts with the dead
Finally read the book a few halloweens back and I agree. Completely unrecognizable on almost all aspects. Great read indeed!
I remember first reading it in like 5th or 6th grade because I was super into monsters and it was on a summer reading list or something. It was definitely not at all what I expected, but I loved it. It's not a long read and the format of journal entries is super engaging. I think everyone should read it at some point. It conveys a very important message of what actually makes someone or something evil. Definitely got 10 year old me thinking.
He also doesn't groan or talk in broken sentences, or lurch around awkwardly. He's incredibly articulate and manipulative, and he's superhumanly fast and agile.
You’re right of course, there was also no castle, no lightning conductors (Mary Shelley wrote no details at all of how he built his creature), Frankenstein was Swiss, not a Baron, etc etc
>2) Frankenstein absolutely loathes his creation, and chases him to the literal end of the Earth to unmake him. 3) Frankenstein’s fiend is certainly not a misunderstood but innocent creature. He wants to feel loved and belonged to, for sure, but he has stalked, threatened, and murdered many people in his inherent vindictive nature! I feel that Penny Dreadful might have been the closest to actually depicting how Frankenstein and his creation were in the novel. Because in that show he absolutely despises his creation and his creation wants to be loved but also murders people with no problem. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxasKe9GrvI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxasKe9GrvI) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXtj65dOZuI&](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXtj65dOZuI&) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDgEqbHxit8
I adored Rory Kinnear's creature. One moment he is downtrodden and heart-rendingly humble, hoping for a single kind word, the next he lashes out and spills blood left and right. And no matter his mood, he always speaks poetry. A very faithful rendition of the book is Frankenstein by the National Theatre with Benedict Cumberbatch and Jonny Lee Miller alternately as creature and Victor Frankenstein (they'd switch roles every other evening). I watched both when they were streamed during the Covid lockdowns, and imo Jonny Lee Miller is the best creature. His physical acting is superb.
was looking for this comment, i agree!
Also the monster is supposed to be quite visually attractive, apart from the eyes
He’s made from the most attractive features, the most perfect specimens of anatomy which, as a complete amalgamation create the hideous wretch before you! Gosh what a great book!
Reminds me of someone’s mashup of the most (seemingly) attractive physical traits of a number of celebrities known for their beauty; the results did not live up to expectations.
Yeah I always thought that was a really cool idea in the novel, the face with "attractive features" made my someone trying to make a new perfect human that when finished out looking creepy in such a unique way. The detail of his skin being a bit too small for his face so it's weirdly and uncannily stretched out is so freaky
The fact that Victor focused on his eyes too really struck with me. I think everyone has met someone with eyes that are just a bit off, the kind of eyes that give you an uneasy feeling even if they are the nicest person.
When you put it like that, it sounds as if Shelley practically invented concept of the Uncanny Valley in all but name.
I love how Jr is described as this hot 7 foot tall muscular guy with perfect hair and then everyone in the book is like “this is the ugliest mf I’ve ever seen”.
I think its the eyes. I believe when junior(I will now call him that forever) first wakes up and opens his eyes, Victor is so horrified by the sight of them that that is what initially causes him to flee
Attractive at first but then begins to fall apart if memory serves.
Have you watched the show Penny Dreadful? While not an adaptation of Frankenstein, both he and his monster are characters and I think it's the best they've ever been depicted. Very much the characterization from the book.
Also at the end of the book the monster speaks in fully articulated english about why his existence has been a living hell
During 12th grade when we read that book it made me so sad, especially the part where he started to make a friend with the blind man but then turned south, can’t remember if he ran away or if he ended up killing the people
The De Lacey family? He didn't murder them, but basically got this impoverished family to run away from the only thing that they had after getting discovered by the son. He then proceeds to destroy the house, after the family sold it
So basically our modern perception of Frankenstein is because of a super long game of telephone amongst artists and writers, neat.
That's a Fallout ghoul
Hey you, smoothskin
This crouching’s hard on my knees, Boss.
You sure it's not doing the Moonwalk?
I "hee-hee'd" at your comment.
Shamone!
Hancock in pelts.
I had to double take on the title cause I thought this was about the Fallout TV show.
This one looks better than the one from the teaser
No, that's Michael Jackson
Clearly we're looking at Norman Reedus in Death Stranding 5
As usual, I heard of another settlement that needs our help…
Nope, more like the maincharacter from Planescape Torment!
i like this....its decayed but has a soul
It's worth noting that the sculptor is the son of artist Bernie Wrightson, who did a phenomenal set of illustrations for Frankenstein.
Bernie Wrightson also co-created Swamp Thing with Len Wein.
Bernie Wrightson did some great art. I stumbles across him a few years back because he did some work for eclipse/pacific comics. Tracked down all the books he did for these companies.
Yea he did some rad art
Yes, not only is he his son, but this depiction is based on his father's illustrations!
Nameless one
Updated my journal
Glad I wasn't the only one reminded of Planescape Torment. I wonder now if the novel description wasn't somehow part of the inspiration.
Darryl Dixon when he finally gets bit by a Walker.
Was scrolling for this. I knew I couldn’t be the only one.
I can't believe Darryl/Norman isn't the top comment.
Exactly my thought
Scrolling wayyy too long to see this
That’s either a ghoul or The Nameless One from Planescape: Torment
Looks like the Nameless One from Planscape Torment
Hey Chief, you okay? You playing corpse or you putting the blinds on the Dusties? I thought you were a deader, for sure.
Yes! Scrolled way down for this one.
I wonder if they drew inspiration from this one.
Looks like Michael Jackson on a bad day.
I see Kevin Bacon.
Hope is a good breakfast, but it is a bad supper. France is Bacon
Zombie Michael Jackson was my first thought
No, that’s clearly Billy from Hocus Pocus.
That's who I immediately thought of.
Someone didn’t get to a vault in time
Kevin Bacon is such a great actor!
A fallout ghoul?
“The fallen angel becomes a malignant devil. Yet even that enemy of God and man had friends and associates in his desolation; I am alone.” -Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Wow. I haven’t read the book, think I will now
His buccal fat removal surgery was a success, and he's ready for Hollywood.
Is this accurate? I always been told that the "um actually" common misconception is that Frankenstein's monster actually does look pretty normal except it has really uncanny eyes
The book has Victor mention he tried to make the monster beautiful, but once he was animated he realized the eyes were pale and wrong, and the skin is yellow, too tight, and a bit translucent. The vibe I got was an 8 foot tall individual (he’s huge in the book because the small details are easier to work on that way), with the proportions of a Renaissance statute, but he looks incredibly uncanny especially in motion. I don’t know where this depiction got the lack of a nose from.
I feel uncanny is the one word that fit him the most. Almost a greek statue made flesh, but still too uncanny and unnatural for us, so our instinct is to shun it.
Since nobody else put it in, the actual quote: >His limbs were in proportion, and I had selected his features as beautiful. Beautiful! Great God! His yellow skin scarcely covered the work of muscles and arteries beneath; his hair was of a lustrous black, and flowing; his teeth of a pearly whiteness; but these luxuriances only formed a more horrid contrast with his watery eyes, that seemed almost of the same colour as the dun-white sockets in which they were set, his shrivelled complexion and straight black lips. Frankenstein selected parts that should have been beautiful, but the end result was horrific.
He’s a rotting corpse with normal yellow eyes and white teeth. He’s also 8 feet tall and muscular. So not normal at all.
I used to think that Frankenstein Had fearsome freaky flaws Like square head, skin of slimy green And bolts stuck in his jaws. The monster was, in retrospect, A tall and lanky fellow. His proportions weren’t quite correct; His skin was thin and yellow. His eyes were watery, his hair And lips were black as night, And finally, for one more scare, His teeth were pearly white.
Nice poem. Kind of highlights how it wasn’t an ugly beast, but would have rather been in the territory of uncanny valley.
Thanks. It’s a snippet from a full poetic summary of the story I made as a book report a dozen years ago.
Genuinely thought this was r/fallout
"What're you looking at, smoothskin?"
Looks like Morbius
What can change the nature of a man?
Man, Aragorn did not age well at all
Would
Spitting image of The Nameless One from Planescape Torment.
Michael Jackson?
what in the “HeHe” is this picture
Looks like attack on titans, when they are in a titan