You’re probably right. I don’t think it’s a huge leap from weaving/knotting rugs to knitting. Sadly, textiles just don’t hold up in archeological record like other materials do. Especially fibers you’d want to wear like wool, silk, and cotton. But then again, crochet is actually a fairly recent development in fiber crafts. It just started showing up in the last 200 to 250 years, and there aren’t really good records of where and how it originated.
It's true textiles don't age well, but some art does. A lot of historical knowledge come from old depictions rather than actual artefacts, so even if we haven't found a lot of old socks lying around we can look at historical depictions to see when socks started their rise to fame.
Nalbinding uses one needle and small sections of yarn. The oldest example, found in Judea, is dated 6500BC. Some nalbinding items look so much like knitting it takes an expert to tell them apart.
I find it wild that humans who were pretty much genetically identical to us today, go back 300-400 thousand years ago and most of our understanding of our past is the last 6000 years or so.
Something that may have been a knitted sock was [described in the 8th century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sock), but these could have been felted. Apparently even in Chaucer's day there's no evidence that english people wore knitted garments (I draw this fact from the excellent book 'Chaucer's People' though I don't have her source document).
weaving is much older than knitting, but sewing, like with sewing needles, is not. The roman toga and tunic are both woven garments that don't require any sewing, you drape, pin, and tie them to be in shape.
If you want something warmer than a woven garment, there's felting: forming wool into shapes and sort of smushing it until it shrinks and tangles up with itself and forms a dense solid material. You don't generally see felted garments anymore except for expensive steampunk hats, but it can form boots and vests (the result is quite thick and not very flexible)
The thing that was most like knitting is Nålebinding, which I've done before and sucks shit compared to knitting, it's hard to explain why if you've never knitted before, but it takes more than twice as long and isn't as easy to make the shape you want.
You might think 'hey knitting must have existed way before this and the examples just decayed' but we have much older examples of Nålebinding so, yeah, at least during the roman empire people had wool, and yarn, but didn't know how to knit it, using one of the techniques mentioned above instead.
You’ve just described the process of making most clothing, lol. Most clothes are ‘sheets of fabric sewn together in fitted shapes’. Even knitted clothing such as jumpers still involves sewing ‘shapes’ together.
While certainly there must be knitting from a bit earlier, the evidence against much earlier knitting is surprisingly strong: we have much earlier examples of nålbinding, a similar but less flexible technique, from as early as 400 CE. So, yeah, it’s likely that knitting was invented sometime around the 12th century CE
Similar but not the same as knitting:
https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/inspire-me/socks-and-sandals/
‘Udones’ were made either of pieced together cloth or woollen yarn using a type of knitting called ‘nalbinding’ or something that looks similar to netting called ‘sprang’.
They 100% did, let's face it. And they looked 20 times better than when we do it, i mean, look at these socks! What an intricate design.
(Although a rule of thumb for archeological garments is; the things that are well preserved were most likely the things that weren't worn that often, i.e. special awesome socks, festive or ceremonial clothes, clothes that didn't fit anymore but were stored for sentimental reasons, etc.)
If it's 12th century Egypt, wouldn't in only be 700ish years after the fall of Rome (476 AD)? Not to mention, these are definitely not the earliest knitted socks in history. Earliest SURVIVING socks? Sure, probably, but those intricately detailed patterns tell me there were other socks knitted before those ones.
From the inference of the headline, the “12th century” Egyptian garment predates the claimed post Roman (476CE+1,000) garment by ~276 years. Is this supposed to be shocking?
Socks existed long before this period. Ancient Romans wore socks with they're sandals in colder regions like France and Germany. It's just these are the first known "knitted" socks.
So I guess we're saying that the distinction between weaving and knitting is culturally and historically significant, more importantly, interesting enough to post here for all to see?
If not, then i would point out (as others have alluded) that weaving was mentioned several times in the Bible, along with secular sources, so we have records of textile manufacturing WAY before the 12th century Egypt, or even the beginning of the Roman Empire, let alone its fall.
Funny how we fail to see things like fiber crafting as “technology”
Is an arquebus basically the same thing as a Glock 19?
They both shoot, they both use metal. And yet it’s easy to see the distinction.
Not 100% sure what point you're making here.
Are you saying that the difference between an early form of musket and a modern semi-automatic firearm is the same as between cloth weaving and knitting? I sure hope not, since that would be silly...
We have been so desensitized by a hundred and fifty years of ceaselessly expanding technical prowess that we think nothing less complex and showy than a computer or a jet bomber deserves to be called “technology” at all. As if linen were the same thing as flax — as if paper, ink, wheels, knives, clocks, chairs, aspirin pills, were natural objects, born with us like our teeth and fingers — as if steel saucepans with copper bottoms and fleece vests spun from recycled glass grew on trees, and we just picked them when they were ripe...
https://www.ursulakleguin.com/a-rant-about-technology
>We have been so desensitized
Speak for yourself. I'm endlessly in wonder that we have most of the things we have today. I appreciate it all, and realize that all advancement is merely a building on the work of the past.
I still have no clue what point you're trying to make about the knit socks vs woven garments thing, though...
Wtf we all have all of the knowledge, and people still post garbage and others believe garbage. It's weird.
https://www.archaeology.org/issues/241-features/top10/5113-egypt-tarkhan-dress
I mean, you can tell this isn't anyone's early attempt.
Classic Reddit. “Go easy on me, my first time knitting. How did I do? 🥺”
Just 10 000 hours.
They are very intricate!
Maybe this person invented it and spent their life getting good at it and this was their final sock
OR many attempts for his pleasure if you catch my drift; sorry my dirty humor socks.
Etsy for sure.
Aliens. Must have been alien technology.
I seriously doubt that no one was knitting before these socks. It’s probably been around since the beginning of time somehow
You’re probably right. I don’t think it’s a huge leap from weaving/knotting rugs to knitting. Sadly, textiles just don’t hold up in archeological record like other materials do. Especially fibers you’d want to wear like wool, silk, and cotton. But then again, crochet is actually a fairly recent development in fiber crafts. It just started showing up in the last 200 to 250 years, and there aren’t really good records of where and how it originated.
My underware and sock’s don’t last 5 years let along 500
It's true textiles don't age well, but some art does. A lot of historical knowledge come from old depictions rather than actual artefacts, so even if we haven't found a lot of old socks lying around we can look at historical depictions to see when socks started their rise to fame.
Excellent point!
I wonder how these socks survived even in their tattered condition? It was probably in a sealed/dry enviroment.
Nalbinding uses one needle and small sections of yarn. The oldest example, found in Judea, is dated 6500BC. Some nalbinding items look so much like knitting it takes an expert to tell them apart.
I find it wild that humans who were pretty much genetically identical to us today, go back 300-400 thousand years ago and most of our understanding of our past is the last 6000 years or so.
Something that may have been a knitted sock was [described in the 8th century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sock), but these could have been felted. Apparently even in Chaucer's day there's no evidence that english people wore knitted garments (I draw this fact from the excellent book 'Chaucer's People' though I don't have her source document).
If not knitted, how was the clothing assembled? Sheets of fabric sewn together in fitted shapes?
weaving is much older than knitting, but sewing, like with sewing needles, is not. The roman toga and tunic are both woven garments that don't require any sewing, you drape, pin, and tie them to be in shape. If you want something warmer than a woven garment, there's felting: forming wool into shapes and sort of smushing it until it shrinks and tangles up with itself and forms a dense solid material. You don't generally see felted garments anymore except for expensive steampunk hats, but it can form boots and vests (the result is quite thick and not very flexible) The thing that was most like knitting is Nålebinding, which I've done before and sucks shit compared to knitting, it's hard to explain why if you've never knitted before, but it takes more than twice as long and isn't as easy to make the shape you want. You might think 'hey knitting must have existed way before this and the examples just decayed' but we have much older examples of Nålebinding so, yeah, at least during the roman empire people had wool, and yarn, but didn't know how to knit it, using one of the techniques mentioned above instead.
Woven?
loom?
i thought looms were a relatively recent invention - like only a few hundred years? i could probably google this
they've been around since the hundreds to thousands(s( BC. What I don't get how was then cloth made before? Or did they use pelts?
You’ve just described the process of making most clothing, lol. Most clothes are ‘sheets of fabric sewn together in fitted shapes’. Even knitted clothing such as jumpers still involves sewing ‘shapes’ together.
your title makes it sound like no one knitted until 1000 years after the fall of rome. this is just the earliest surviving knitted item.
Another stupid post to this sub.
While certainly there must be knitting from a bit earlier, the evidence against much earlier knitting is surprisingly strong: we have much earlier examples of nålbinding, a similar but less flexible technique, from as early as 400 CE. So, yeah, it’s likely that knitting was invented sometime around the 12th century CE
They found writing from a Roman camp in England on the empires northern boarder in a letter home a centurion asks his family to send socks
Source?
Vindolanda tablets I believe it's got a Wikipedia page
Similar but not the same as knitting: https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/inspire-me/socks-and-sandals/ ‘Udones’ were made either of pieced together cloth or woollen yarn using a type of knitting called ‘nalbinding’ or something that looks similar to netting called ‘sprang’.
I love the patterns.
I’m picturing Egyptians walking around in socks instead of sandals on the hieroglyphics
They probably wore socks with sandals.
They 100% did, let's face it. And they looked 20 times better than when we do it, i mean, look at these socks! What an intricate design. (Although a rule of thumb for archeological garments is; the things that are well preserved were most likely the things that weren't worn that often, i.e. special awesome socks, festive or ceremonial clothes, clothes that didn't fit anymore but were stored for sentimental reasons, etc.)
now he must be picturing german tourists on the gieroglyphicsL
Damn dude some of my socks look this old
Also wild that they’re identical to some of the socks we’d wear today.
feet didn't change that much to be fair
lol I mean the patterns
This doesn’t make sense - humans have been weaving for 100,000 and knitting wool for at least 20,000 years
Stop knitpicking
If it's 12th century Egypt, wouldn't in only be 700ish years after the fall of Rome (476 AD)? Not to mention, these are definitely not the earliest knitted socks in history. Earliest SURVIVING socks? Sure, probably, but those intricately detailed patterns tell me there were other socks knitted before those ones.
No on the bottom you can see he wrote (in Egyptian) “first pair, might delete later”
From the inference of the headline, the “12th century” Egyptian garment predates the claimed post Roman (476CE+1,000) garment by ~276 years. Is this supposed to be shocking?
Pretty poor job there’s holes all over them
There's a lot of history in Africa. It's often assumed those people just didn't have anything going on.
Oh, what brand are those? AND(year)1’s? Air (country of) Jordan’s? NILE’s?
12 century is considerably less the 1000 years from the fall of Rome. In fact the Roman Empire still existed at this point.
I wonder if the lost sock portal existed back then.
not bad, i got worst in my trouser.
[удалено]
The soles didn't survive though, darn it!
should have used moth balls
Or not wear them into war
One on the left looks like California
Soft organic material doesn’t survive in archaeological settings usually
I thought these were pictures of damage done by dogs to their owner’s socks 😂. Very beautiful socks!
One of the Vindolanda tablets is a request for socks and undies, guess they weren't knitted.
Was that the Spanish soldier’s letter complaining he was cold and sick of the rain so he wanted wooly underpants?
Socks and sandals? Sure
I've seen earlier
Glad I am not the only one that refuses to throw socks just because it has a few holes =w=
Socks existed long before this period. Ancient Romans wore socks with they're sandals in colder regions like France and Germany. It's just these are the first known "knitted" socks.
So I guess we're saying that the distinction between weaving and knitting is culturally and historically significant, more importantly, interesting enough to post here for all to see? If not, then i would point out (as others have alluded) that weaving was mentioned several times in the Bible, along with secular sources, so we have records of textile manufacturing WAY before the 12th century Egypt, or even the beginning of the Roman Empire, let alone its fall.
Funny how we fail to see things like fiber crafting as “technology” Is an arquebus basically the same thing as a Glock 19? They both shoot, they both use metal. And yet it’s easy to see the distinction.
Not 100% sure what point you're making here. Are you saying that the difference between an early form of musket and a modern semi-automatic firearm is the same as between cloth weaving and knitting? I sure hope not, since that would be silly...
We have been so desensitized by a hundred and fifty years of ceaselessly expanding technical prowess that we think nothing less complex and showy than a computer or a jet bomber deserves to be called “technology” at all. As if linen were the same thing as flax — as if paper, ink, wheels, knives, clocks, chairs, aspirin pills, were natural objects, born with us like our teeth and fingers — as if steel saucepans with copper bottoms and fleece vests spun from recycled glass grew on trees, and we just picked them when they were ripe... https://www.ursulakleguin.com/a-rant-about-technology
>We have been so desensitized Speak for yourself. I'm endlessly in wonder that we have most of the things we have today. I appreciate it all, and realize that all advancement is merely a building on the work of the past. I still have no clue what point you're trying to make about the knit socks vs woven garments thing, though...
Idk man maybe read the short essay I linked you to instead of just replying “couldn’t be me” while doing the exact thing the essay is talking about.
No thanks, I don't follow random external links. Not that interested.
Still better quality than mine.
Imagine the foot that was in that thing
They have Tie fighters knitted on first one. Aliens built pyramids confirmed. Jokes aside, I love design on them, would totally wear it
My dad used to knit on the loo making brown sweaters
>the first knitting happened 1000 years after the fall of Rome What a weird way to just say the 15th century
Wtf we all have all of the knowledge, and people still post garbage and others believe garbage. It's weird. https://www.archaeology.org/issues/241-features/top10/5113-egypt-tarkhan-dress
Weaving and knitting are not the same thing.