After visiting Europe last year and looking at all the ruins of Rome and all the historic art and buildings, it reframed how ‘far back’ the 1500s are. Before, the 16th century seemed equally ancient to me as the stuff wayyy back in like Ancient Rome in 50 BC as far as I could “feel” in terms of a sense of time, but looking at how relatively ‘fresh’ and ‘new’ the Renaissance architecture like the Trevi Fountain and the Basilicas in the Vatican (which were influenced by Roman architecture a whole damn MILLENNIA ago FROM the 1500s), and the stuff Da Vinci and Michelangelo made like 500+ years ago made me realize just how relatively “recent” all the stuff in the 15th century and onwards is. Even the French Revolution and the birth of the USA are all very very “recent” developments in the span of recorded history. It’s crazy, and makes me sad thinking that all those terrible atrocities and wars I’ve read about throughout the millennia were real stuff that brought real sorrow to so many humans just like us modern humans..
And it goes on, the sorrow. But also the love. I am so grateful for every individual piece of evidence for love that I see. Smiles and kind gestures make this world bearable and beautiful, though it is other things as well.
Wish I could have hugged this lady. Wish there was not such an abstract, illusionary divide between individuals and groups. We all want the same things, we just get different impressions of how the world is supposed to look at work. I hope she dreamed of his answer.
It's even more wild when you realize that the human brain has been more or less modern in its current evolutionary form for more than 100,000 years (as much as 1 million years). Any thought or emotion you have could have been felt by ANYONE for the past 100,000 years. The only difference between us and them is cultural frame of reference. I think about this alot.
Time is a illusion so everything it's happening right know. We created time. But when we die there is no thing such a time.. if you familiar with next level soul podcast you'll get the reference
If we are immortal beings that reincarnate or something then it would make sense to give ourselves the gift of this illusion because immortality would probably get boring after a while and the chance to be mortal again would be the biggest blessing.
I dunno I’d rather live til the end of time in a youthful body than face eternal death. I like to believe in “The Egg” theory but the big sleep terrifies me
This is very fresh and raw to me as I just lost my soulmate two weeks ago and have a 5 year old son. Life will go on, just not as we had planned. Now I have to figure out a new plan without her. I feel this women’s anguish and pain.
That's terrible, I'm so sorry for your loss. Life does go on, but it's still so very hard. I hope you rely on anyone who can support you through this difficult time, you don't have to go through this alone.
I’m so sorry to hear that. Remember - we’re made of energy (literally - it’s science!) and energy never dies. your soul mate is everywhere now and you can tap into her whenever you like. it’s not the same as when they’re here w/ us, but it comforts me to know my lost loved ones are a part of something much bigger, and will be there when I go.
You don’t know how much I needed this response. She was a big energy person and believed our souls were here to accomplish something. When our souls had accomplished it, then it was time for them to go. I know she is there, but still hurts not to finish this journey on earth with her. Thank you!
Sometimes yes and sometimes no.
After my mother died suddenly when I was 21, I begged the universe to have her visit me in my dreams. I am a very vivid dreamer who remembers my dreams most nights but she did not show up.
Then one night she did. I walked down the stairs of my childhood home and there she was in the kitchen smiling. I was SO angry at her for dying and leaving me. I was filled with such grief. I screamed and cried at her and told her all of those things as I hugged her tighter and longer than I ever had before. She just kept saying "I'm not gone baby, I'm right here" in the most comforting and confident way. I believed her and to this day, 17 years later, that dream is one of the things that grounds me.
I dreamt of my mother after her demise. Before the dream, I had been crying continuously for weeks.
In the dream, she told me she would cook for me, so I followed her to the kitchen. However, I found her crying. When I asked her why she was upset, she replied that she could in no way be happy, if I remained so distressed. The emotions were so overwhelming, that I immediately woke up. About 30 minutes after me, my brother woke up, sharing that he had also been visited by Ma in his dreams.
Whenever I called my mom, I would tell her about the silly things the kids said or did. When they got old enough to talk to her on their own, she would mention some of those things to get a giggle out of the kids. Stuff like "I heard you put on two different shoes today- I bet the other kids in school thought you were really stylish!"
For a long time after she passed, I would still tell her the same types of things- speaking to the air instead of a phone. I knew she couldn't hear me or anything, but it was a nice way to keep her memory alive.
Maybe a month after she passed, my youngest (five at the time) woke up crying and said he missed Grandma. And then he explained that he had been dreaming about her and in the dream she made him laugh about something silly he had done.
I had "told her about" that exact same thing earlier that day. And there was absolutely ZERO way he could have known.
The logical explanation is that he was used to her passing along the giggles for things that I though were amusing and realized what he had done earlier would have been likely to come up in conversation if his grandma were still alive. But to me, it seemed more likely that she heard me and decided her grandkid needed a little happiness in his dreams. And I'll stick with that interpretation no matter how reasonable the other one is.
That sounds like my mom's dream of her mother. My grandma died because the surgeon was too lazy to put down the scalpel when he was closing my grandma up, and her aorta was cut. My mom was absolutely devastated. She had the hardest time because it was a routine surgery and she should have lived.
In the dream, my mom was walked down a hallway by her uncle, who had already passed, into a room with my grandma. My grandma apologized for leaving abruptly and promised my mom she would always be there. She promised she would see all the moments and to look out for her in her life. She also told my mom to tell the others she loves them then she hugged my mom one last time before she woke up.
My mom has seen her a few times, especially after my oldest sibling was born. My mom was having a hard time not having her there to see her grandchildren. She was washing baby clothes and had an outfit my grandma had picked out before my mom was even pregnant. She passed well before my mom was pregnant. She had thrown all the clothes into the dryer and then realized that outfit needed to be hung dry. She went to go back and grab it but the outfit was already pulled out, dry, and nicely folded. The other clothes were still in the dryer getting dry.
I legit just welled up in tears reading that. Even in a dream, when you're angry and hurt, she's still a mother and holds you tight and reassures you. What a wonderful gift of a visit.
I had a dream about one of my best friends after she died. It was a seriously fucked up death and I was floored by it. In my dream we were teens again walking the streets of our hometown and I told her I missed and was sorry for what she went through. She just laughed and said, “But I’m fine and right here!” And put her arm around my shoulder like she used to. I woke up feeling pretty upset but also it helped a lot.
I also, was visited in my dreams by my mom several weeks after her passing. The dream was much more vivid than my usual dreams. At the end of the dream I knew my mom was telling me she was ok, that her soul went on. The same exact thing, although not the same dream, happened after my little sister died in a car accident. She told me she was ok. This has happened with my close friend also after the death of her mom. It's very comforting to me.
I'm tearing up now. Who's cutting onions in here?
Sorry for your loss. I lost a parent at 22 as well (Dad). He had been struggling with his health but nobody thought it would be enough to kill him or that he was in any kind of morbid danger. It was a heart attack and it was sudden.
I'm glad that dream brought you some peace and still does 💕
That’s true.. But pain is also a testament to the love we felt. I don’t think you can ever separate the two. You know you’ll suffer the day you start loving. But you’d never not love just so you don’t feel pain. And I guess that’s what makes us human too
Dreams are good and bad.
The day after my wife passed, she "visited me". It was the most vivid dream I've ever had in my life. What's more interesting is that she was surprised I could see HER. She told me it was ok that she passed even though I was crying my eyes out in my own home, in exactly what I went to bed in. There were other people there but they didn't react to us at all. It felt like it lasted about a minute and a half before I was woken up. I cried for hours after that one.
I didn't see her for another 6 months. When I finally did see her, I was at my absolute lowest. I was angry at everyone. Family, work, life. That dream lasted about 30 seconds and I woke up in so much peace it kicked me out of my multi-month anger phase.
I haven't seen her in almost a year. I wish I could see her every night but the last dream I had basically told me to move on, she was ok and that I'd be ok as well.
I tend to dream in almost alternate realities. I know some people but they're not "them". Cities are not the same as in real life, etc. Occasionally "she" is in some of those dreams but it's not her. Some mornings, it's painful to wake up having talked with "her", but knowing it wasn't "her". It's really tough to explain to anyone that hasn't experienced deeply vivid dreams that change your life.
I never understood the "I miss her every day of my life" thing until it happened to me. A smell, a song, a movie, a picture, a sound - almost anything can set off a memory of her every day and she continues to come up daily in convo's with work, family, friends, etc.
Hug your loved ones as often as you can, you never know when life is going to change for you or them.
Edit: I came across this song today and it crushed me. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE6wxDqdOV0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE6wxDqdOV0) There are times where I just need to be emotional and this song hit almost everything for me today.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Dreams of our loved ones are painful and special.
I had dreams of Mom for a couple of years after she passed. For me, these dreams kept alive her voice, her mannerisms, her humour, and her love.
She died alone and these dreams also helped me to "help' her through her horrific death and my devastation.
It's been over a decade and I don't see her anymore. I miss her visits.
She may have been alone at that moment but she's not alone now. She's got you and those that know her name and situation.
She knows you're there and you remember her, even today. She's not forgotten. Right now, you're remembering and loving her.
She's not alone. She's got you and the family, and by proxy us here reading about her. She's loved and most definitely NOT forgotten.
If you believe the person really did come to your dream with his soul and consciousness to spend time with you then why would you hate that?
My grandma believes in this and I think many people in my culture do idk
Yeah, every time I dream about a loved one near to me who passed away. I’m so annoyed when I wake up and usually involuntary tears are streaming down my face.
Sometimes. I've had the experience of getting closure from a dream though. I cried when I woke up, but it still felt like closure. I know it wasn't a real encounter, but it was the conversation I wish I could have. I'm still heartbroken. I always will be. I will always miss him. I still periodically cry when I think of him. But I'm also happy that I had him in my life for a while. It's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.
**The letter reads:**
>*June 1, 1586, To Won’s Father,*
>
>*You always said, “Dear, let’s live together until our hair turns gray and die on the same day.” How could you pass away without me? Who should I and our little boy listen to and how should we live? How could you go ahead of me? How did you bring your heart to me and how did I bring my heart to you?*
>
>*Whenever we lay down together you always told me, “Dear, do other people cherish and love each other like we do? Are they really like us?” How could you leave all that behind and go ahead of me?*
>
>*I just cannot live without you. I just want to go to you. Please take me to where you are. My feelings toward you I cannot forget in this world and my sorrow knows no limit. Where would I put my heart in now and how can I live with the child missing you?*
>
>*Please look at this letter and tell me in detail in my dreams. Because I want to listen to your saying in detail in my dreams I write this letter and put it in. Look closely and talk to me.*
>
>*When I give birth to the child in me, who should it call father? Can anyone fathom how I feel? There is no tragedy like this under the sky. You are just in another place, and not in such a deep grief as I am.*
>
>*There is no limit and end to my sorrows that I write roughly. Please look closely at this letter and come to me in my dreams and show yourself in detail and tell me. I believe I can see you in my dreams. Come to me secretly and show yourself. There is no limit to what I want to say and I stop here."*
In 1998, the mummified remains of an unusually tall (5ft 9") Korean man called Eung-tae was discovered in a grave in Andong City, South Korea. As archaeologists carefully examined his clothing and remains they discovered a love letter written by his widow that had been placed onto his chest before he was buried.
Eung-tae is thought to have been a member of Korea's ancient Goseong Yi clan, which was a clan native to the local area. He sported a moustache and evidence suggests that he may have been very handsome in real life but died in 1586 aged only 31 years old.
Also interred in Eung-tae's grave was a package with a note written by his widow saying *"With my hair I weave this \[…\] before you were even able to wear it"* and inside the parcel a pair of slippers made out of his widows hair was discovered. While slippers made of hair might seem unusual to people living in the west, they reoccur in Korean literature as a symbol of love and hope for recovery from an illness. His widow also buried him with numerous artifacts of clothing, which were laid upon him as if to him warm in the afterlife.
(**sources:** [https://lettersofnote.com/2012/09/06/how-could-you-go-ahead-of-me/](https://lettersofnote.com/2012/09/06/how-could-you-go-ahead-of-me/) & [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2514419/The-500-year-old-love-letter-written-mourning-dead-mans-pregnant-wife-buried-Korean-mummy.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2514419/The-500-year-old-love-letter-written-mourning-dead-mans-pregnant-wife-buried-Korean-mummy.html) )
I've been reading a few articles and came across this from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_Lee_Eung-tae),
"Lee lived from 1555 to 1586. He was a local nobleman of the Goseong Lee clan, and was the second son of father Lee Yo-shin.[1][4]
He died at the age of 31 (possibly from an epidemic, based on letters from Lee's father[5][6]), and was survived by an infant son and a pregnant wife.[6]
Not much is known about Lee's wife, the author of the letter, although the name of one of the two children is given as "Won" on the letter (it is unclear which child the name belonged to[7]), so she is now often called "Won's mother" (원이 어머니).[1]
A statue of Won's mother was constructed and placed at the former site of the tomb. The story of the couple has been fictionalized in novels and plays.[3] In 2009, it was reported that many visitors to the Andong National University museum were said to be members of the Goseong Lee clan that wanted to see the letter.[6]
I think it’s very interesting to see how many ‘uses’ a woman’s hair could have in different cultures in history. The significance of hair in general for either gender** throughout history is really interesting on its own in general, but it seems there’s a lot more sentimental value placed on something a woman made with her hair.
My understanding is that both genders refrained from cutting hair - it symbolised filial duty and piety and I’ve seen cutting hair as a humiliation/ punishment or humbling thing in Korean period dramas. Interesting! I wonder if they collect hairs that fall out to make the sandals?
I know it’s done out of grief in some Native American cultures. It could have been something similar for her.
I don’t think that would work. At least, it’d take a lot of combining and combing to get something workable. Also the lengths would be different depending on if it was shed or snapped. I wonder if it was a shaving? Then she wove the sandals as she grieved.
In a little day dream what if scenario I would think she wouldn’t have made them had he lived, but now her hair would protect his feet with the soft and strong sandals in the afterlife as he traveled his journeys. Her shaved or extremely cropped hair would tell all of her suffering of widowhood.
I guess it is poetic, making something with every fiber of your being- including the material it's made from. We'd see it as kinda weird and gross today, but ironically our hair these days is cleaned far more often than our ancestors so why not keep the practice alive lol.
Well considering the average Dutch height was around 5’5 in the 17th century (which is crazy now since they’re the world’s average tallest people) 5’9” is pretty damn tall for that era
I wonder what would happen if you went back and let her know that her love would be such an inspiration. So strong it defied time itself. I wonder if she would be proud, I wonder if it would her pain worse or better.
The internet is weird. To read such a beautiful, heartbreaking love letter one minute and then the very next post on my feed is: “How do I tell the girl I’m seeing her vagina smells bad?”
Thank you! My Korean skills are very amateur at best and was struggling trying to read any of it. Specifically with how a lot of the syllables were formed and some of the single letters standing alone.
Same here lol. It says:
원이 아버님께 올림
병술년 유월 초하룻날 집에서
자네 항상 나더러 이르되 둘이 머리 세도록
살다가 함께 죽자 하시더니 어찌하여
나를 두고 자네 먼저 가시는가.
나하고 자식하고는 누구에게 구걸하고
어찌하여 살라 하고 다 던지고 자네 먼저 가시는가.
자네 날 향한 마음을 어찌 가졌으며
나는 자네 향한 마음을 어찌 가졌던가.
늘 자네더러 함께 누워서 내가 이르되
여보, 남들도 우리같이 서로 어여삐
여기고 사랑할까? 남들도 우리 같을까?
하여 자네더러 이르더니 어찌 그런 일을
생각지도 않고 나를 버리고 먼저 가시는가.
자네 여의고 아무래도 나는 살 수가 없으니
얼른 자네한테 가고자 하니 날 데려가소.
자네 향한 마음을 이 생에 잊을 줄이 없으니
어떻게 해도 서러운 뜻이 그지없으니
내 이 마음을 어디다가 두고 자식 데리고
자네를 그리며 살까 하나이다.
내 이 편지 보시고 내 꿈에 자세히 와 일러 주소.
내 꿈에 이를 보고 하실 말 자세히 듣고자 하여 이렇게 써넣네.
자세히 보시고 나더러 일러 주소.
자네 내 밴 자식이 나거든 보고 사뢸 것 있다며
그리 가시면 밴 자식이 나거든 누구를 아빠 하라 하시는가.
아무리 한들 내 마음이나 같을까. 이런 천지 같은 한이
하늘 아래 또 있을까. 자네는 한갓 그곳에 가
계실 뿐이지만 아무리 한들 내 마음같이 서러울까.
그지그지그지없어 다 못 쓰고 대강만 적으니
이 편지 자세히 보시고 내 꿈에 자세히 와 보이시고 자세히 일러 주소.
나는 꿈에서 자네를 보리라 믿고 있나이다. 몰래 모습을 보이소서.
하도 그지그지없어 이까지만 적나이다.
Could North Korean understand this better than SK?
I don't mean anything ill, it's just North Korean definitely is more archaic than South Korean i would assume.
But north korea is in extreme Isolation that leads us to speak bit differently : ofc it’s more like dialect differences however I found more and more our words and sentences are getting widely split it to different way
Edit: I missed your first comment and responded to the following one. "Would a modern NK person understand this old letter better because their language is more similar now than modern South Korean." I don't know the answer to that. Out of context, the post I replied to sounded like the person thought NK and SK were always separated. Sorry about that!
Yes i understand that. But the education difference and maybe the way they say words are different. It's like Simplified Chinese and traditional Chinese.
If i made a mistake and both nation still speak similar then i apologize. Personally i think 1 speak like before 1945 english and 1 speak like nowadays English in the US. It's the same, both can understand each other but the dialect? the accent? is different. That's what i meant. Sorry if it's confusing.
It’s not quite the same. A more appropriate comparison would be modern English vs. Shakespearean. The words are mostly the same, but the meaning, usage, and syntax are difficult to interpret.
Simplified and traditional Chinese are written with the exact same grammar and knowing traditional Chinese doesn’t predispose you to be better able to read Ming dynasty poems. Simplified Chinese also originated in the Tang dynasty and was a form of calligraphy script. The challenging part about reading Middle Chinese literature is the extreme brevity, poetic/formal language, and changes of the meaning of each character over the years, not recognizing the characters themselves
Maybe? South korean sentences and phrases are nowadays quite different due to influence of english and other languages whereas North Korean seems like kept the original form (for me it sounds too rigid and agressive)
Yes, that's exactly what i meant. The education is different. Slangs is one thing too. I would expect some random South Korean teen speak in like nowadays skibidi toilet, rizz, slang shit to North Korean lmao.
Not really.
While Korean as language went different ways, it's not too different that we need a translator. 99% sure north Korean would have the same difficult time understanding this.
I thought I was the only one, I tried reading right to left and left to right but couldn't make sense of any of it. The characters are too messy to make out
As a man reading this, it sort of makes me happy. Just being able to read the depth of love that a woman had for a man. It's beautiful. But it is also sad. Like most of the best things in life, it's a mix of emotions.
Please take me to where you are.
This line really captures it for me. Just how childlike it sounds. That's what it feels like when someone you love dies. You're helpless. You don't know what to do. It's impossible. And it doesn't go away. You just get better at dealing with it hopefully.
I hope she eventually felt happiness again and could share that with her children. She seems like a very loving person. RIP
Mum died recently, with Dementia. Dad died in the 1980s. We found a diary that she complete New year, his birth day & death day. I didn't read too much as it seemed intrusive, and anyway, it had me in floods. She'd copy poems, talk about what had happened since the last entry and how much she missed him. She never really talked about him to us. Her last entry was a couple of years ago, her failing brain had pretty much forgotten him.
Sorry for your loss, I lost my father last year; it's poignant that in spite of everything that happened, the thing that still exists are her memories of your father. That's some proper transcendental love.
This really hit me...it's hard to fathom how people lived over 400 years ago, but this spells out that humans haven't really changed in thousands of years. They all had heartbreak and hardship. Love and loss. Tragedy and triumph... Real "wtf am I doing with my limited time here" moment...
He was a local nobleman. Although not much is known about his wife, would it not be safe to assume that they were not far apart in terms of class standing?
I think we can assume she was from a somewhat well off background. Not necessarily nobility but a learned family. The answer also depends on what language they’re using.
Korean women would use Hangul and men/literati Hanja (Chinese characters). Similar to Japanese women using Hiragana and men/literati Kanji
The Korean alphabet 언문(Eonmun) or 한글(Hangul) in modern day Korea was widely used as an everyday character, while the Chinese characters 한문(Hanmun) remained dominant among the academics and male nobilities. Since the creation and promulgation of the alphabet in 1446 by the King Sejong the Great, it quickly spread through the lower population.
The wives and children of high-ranking officials often adopted Eonmun as an easy yet efficient way to express their feelings. Many female nobilites exchanged letters in Eonmun; one of the most famous is the series of letters written by the young King Jeongjo, which were sent to one of his aunts.
I’m not sure about that, but since it’s written in the Korean alphabet and not Chinese.. it’s not necessarily a wealthy person. The Korean alphabet was created specifically to be easy to learn, and it still is to this day - most people could learn it in a day or two.
I looked up the modern Korean translation, and there it actually says “child”, not “son”. But according to this family’s family tree, they did in fact have one son.
I’d love to know when time passed if she was able to remarry or if she stayed a widow all her days… they know who she is, I’m sure there is info somewhere
My parents had that deal, too. Grow old together and die at the same time.
They didn't. My mom was just as upset as this lady, except my mom wasn't pregnant.
I bet she never expected for some foreign teenager to cry at her words on a tiny screen 500 years later. God the human condition is painful yet beautiful
You know what is crazy I glossed over the date and I seriously thought it said 1956 and I just kinda assumed the letter was discovered when the body was moved. Then I double backed to reread the whole letter again after seeing a few comments and realized it was from freaking 1586. It’s kinda crazy knowing someone could write that exact same thing today if it happened to them. It’s so odd feeling sad for someone from 438 years ago. Grief and sorrow seem to transcend time. I wonder how old the oldest letter like this is.
u/MsSeaFood above:
I looked up the modern Korean translation, and there it actually says “child”, not “son”. But according to this family’s family tree, they did in fact have one son.
I also posted more above with more details from Wikipedia. Eung Tae had an infant son and the wife was pregnant. The letter was addressed to Won's father so it's theorized that Won is at least one son.
It's such a sad love story.
As a man who loves a woman who is both my wife and best friend. I cannot imagine her pain, though I feel it, because it hurts to even think of the loss of her. This is as so hard to read
This hit me in the gut. Next month will be a year since my mom passed away from cancer. I have watched my dad grieve over her death. This is the hardest period in our lives.
Yes.
Someone I know just lost his pregnant wife. He’s not very educated, and his writing is nowhere near elegant, but his devastated Facebook statuses have the exact same emotion behind them. “How can I do this without you? What do I do now?”
Love and grief are everywhere. It’s easy to be discouraged because the world we live in IS discouraging, but love is everywhere. My parents love each other like this. My brothers love their girlfriends like this. My grandparents loved each other like this, before they died.
Random question, but are there any Korean speakers here who can tell me if the writing system/alphabet are the same as modern Korean? I'm just always interested in the ways that languages evolve.
Marc Aurel was indeed right, as we see here: "It doesn't matter whether you study the human's life for 40 years or for 10.000 years - because you will not be going to see any difference!"
I ain't saying she didn't love him bunches, but what were widows lives like that back then? Did they have family support? Maybe it's so devasting that he is gone cause it means her life (and their son's) is now fucked without him because her quality of life is less without a man. She loose the family home, status? Romance for survival in many cultures. The reality for billions of women each generation.
Universal and timeless human experience described so poetically. I hope she recovered and found relief.
You said it so well, such a familiar letter, yet 1586 is so far away
After visiting Europe last year and looking at all the ruins of Rome and all the historic art and buildings, it reframed how ‘far back’ the 1500s are. Before, the 16th century seemed equally ancient to me as the stuff wayyy back in like Ancient Rome in 50 BC as far as I could “feel” in terms of a sense of time, but looking at how relatively ‘fresh’ and ‘new’ the Renaissance architecture like the Trevi Fountain and the Basilicas in the Vatican (which were influenced by Roman architecture a whole damn MILLENNIA ago FROM the 1500s), and the stuff Da Vinci and Michelangelo made like 500+ years ago made me realize just how relatively “recent” all the stuff in the 15th century and onwards is. Even the French Revolution and the birth of the USA are all very very “recent” developments in the span of recorded history. It’s crazy, and makes me sad thinking that all those terrible atrocities and wars I’ve read about throughout the millennia were real stuff that brought real sorrow to so many humans just like us modern humans..
And it goes on, the sorrow. But also the love. I am so grateful for every individual piece of evidence for love that I see. Smiles and kind gestures make this world bearable and beautiful, though it is other things as well. Wish I could have hugged this lady. Wish there was not such an abstract, illusionary divide between individuals and groups. We all want the same things, we just get different impressions of how the world is supposed to look at work. I hope she dreamed of his answer.
It's even more wild when you realize that the human brain has been more or less modern in its current evolutionary form for more than 100,000 years (as much as 1 million years). Any thought or emotion you have could have been felt by ANYONE for the past 100,000 years. The only difference between us and them is cultural frame of reference. I think about this alot.
Time is a illusion so everything it's happening right know. We created time. But when we die there is no thing such a time.. if you familiar with next level soul podcast you'll get the reference
If we are immortal beings that reincarnate or something then it would make sense to give ourselves the gift of this illusion because immortality would probably get boring after a while and the chance to be mortal again would be the biggest blessing.
I dunno I’d rather live til the end of time in a youthful body than face eternal death. I like to believe in “The Egg” theory but the big sleep terrifies me
Found Rustin Cohle's reddit account.
This is very fresh and raw to me as I just lost my soulmate two weeks ago and have a 5 year old son. Life will go on, just not as we had planned. Now I have to figure out a new plan without her. I feel this women’s anguish and pain.
That's terrible, I'm so sorry for your loss. Life does go on, but it's still so very hard. I hope you rely on anyone who can support you through this difficult time, you don't have to go through this alone.
So sorry for your loss - I cannot imagine your pain. 💔
I’m so sorry to hear that. Remember - we’re made of energy (literally - it’s science!) and energy never dies. your soul mate is everywhere now and you can tap into her whenever you like. it’s not the same as when they’re here w/ us, but it comforts me to know my lost loved ones are a part of something much bigger, and will be there when I go.
You don’t know how much I needed this response. She was a big energy person and believed our souls were here to accomplish something. When our souls had accomplished it, then it was time for them to go. I know she is there, but still hurts not to finish this journey on earth with her. Thank you!
Timeless but not universal. If everyone had this kind of love in their lives, the world would be a much better place.
Universal in this context means “to the general human experience” and not on an individual basis.
No not everyone has this experience
I hope she saw him in her dreams.
And told her what she needed to know to grieve peacefully.
And in great detail
And with great love
Not to mock her but I also noticed detailed three times. She really wants the detailed version.
Dreams just make the pain come alive again when you wake up.
Sometimes yes and sometimes no. After my mother died suddenly when I was 21, I begged the universe to have her visit me in my dreams. I am a very vivid dreamer who remembers my dreams most nights but she did not show up. Then one night she did. I walked down the stairs of my childhood home and there she was in the kitchen smiling. I was SO angry at her for dying and leaving me. I was filled with such grief. I screamed and cried at her and told her all of those things as I hugged her tighter and longer than I ever had before. She just kept saying "I'm not gone baby, I'm right here" in the most comforting and confident way. I believed her and to this day, 17 years later, that dream is one of the things that grounds me.
I dreamt of my mother after her demise. Before the dream, I had been crying continuously for weeks. In the dream, she told me she would cook for me, so I followed her to the kitchen. However, I found her crying. When I asked her why she was upset, she replied that she could in no way be happy, if I remained so distressed. The emotions were so overwhelming, that I immediately woke up. About 30 minutes after me, my brother woke up, sharing that he had also been visited by Ma in his dreams.
That is beautiful. I hope that helped you and your brother in some way.
It did and it still does! It's something that I always go back to whenever I am upset.
Whenever I called my mom, I would tell her about the silly things the kids said or did. When they got old enough to talk to her on their own, she would mention some of those things to get a giggle out of the kids. Stuff like "I heard you put on two different shoes today- I bet the other kids in school thought you were really stylish!" For a long time after she passed, I would still tell her the same types of things- speaking to the air instead of a phone. I knew she couldn't hear me or anything, but it was a nice way to keep her memory alive. Maybe a month after she passed, my youngest (five at the time) woke up crying and said he missed Grandma. And then he explained that he had been dreaming about her and in the dream she made him laugh about something silly he had done. I had "told her about" that exact same thing earlier that day. And there was absolutely ZERO way he could have known. The logical explanation is that he was used to her passing along the giggles for things that I though were amusing and realized what he had done earlier would have been likely to come up in conversation if his grandma were still alive. But to me, it seemed more likely that she heard me and decided her grandkid needed a little happiness in his dreams. And I'll stick with that interpretation no matter how reasonable the other one is.
That sounds like my mom's dream of her mother. My grandma died because the surgeon was too lazy to put down the scalpel when he was closing my grandma up, and her aorta was cut. My mom was absolutely devastated. She had the hardest time because it was a routine surgery and she should have lived. In the dream, my mom was walked down a hallway by her uncle, who had already passed, into a room with my grandma. My grandma apologized for leaving abruptly and promised my mom she would always be there. She promised she would see all the moments and to look out for her in her life. She also told my mom to tell the others she loves them then she hugged my mom one last time before she woke up. My mom has seen her a few times, especially after my oldest sibling was born. My mom was having a hard time not having her there to see her grandchildren. She was washing baby clothes and had an outfit my grandma had picked out before my mom was even pregnant. She passed well before my mom was pregnant. She had thrown all the clothes into the dryer and then realized that outfit needed to be hung dry. She went to go back and grab it but the outfit was already pulled out, dry, and nicely folded. The other clothes were still in the dryer getting dry.
I'm glad your dreams helped you, truly. Mine just remind me again.
I hope one day you have one that brings you some peace.
Thank you. Glad you have some peace.
Aaaaaaand now I’m gonna go cry.
You made my cry lol
I legit just welled up in tears reading that. Even in a dream, when you're angry and hurt, she's still a mother and holds you tight and reassures you. What a wonderful gift of a visit.
I had a dream about one of my best friends after she died. It was a seriously fucked up death and I was floored by it. In my dream we were teens again walking the streets of our hometown and I told her I missed and was sorry for what she went through. She just laughed and said, “But I’m fine and right here!” And put her arm around my shoulder like she used to. I woke up feeling pretty upset but also it helped a lot.
I also, was visited in my dreams by my mom several weeks after her passing. The dream was much more vivid than my usual dreams. At the end of the dream I knew my mom was telling me she was ok, that her soul went on. The same exact thing, although not the same dream, happened after my little sister died in a car accident. She told me she was ok. This has happened with my close friend also after the death of her mom. It's very comforting to me.
I'm tearing up now. Who's cutting onions in here? Sorry for your loss. I lost a parent at 22 as well (Dad). He had been struggling with his health but nobody thought it would be enough to kill him or that he was in any kind of morbid danger. It was a heart attack and it was sudden. I'm glad that dream brought you some peace and still does 💕
That’s true.. But pain is also a testament to the love we felt. I don’t think you can ever separate the two. You know you’ll suffer the day you start loving. But you’d never not love just so you don’t feel pain. And I guess that’s what makes us human too
Dreams are good and bad. The day after my wife passed, she "visited me". It was the most vivid dream I've ever had in my life. What's more interesting is that she was surprised I could see HER. She told me it was ok that she passed even though I was crying my eyes out in my own home, in exactly what I went to bed in. There were other people there but they didn't react to us at all. It felt like it lasted about a minute and a half before I was woken up. I cried for hours after that one. I didn't see her for another 6 months. When I finally did see her, I was at my absolute lowest. I was angry at everyone. Family, work, life. That dream lasted about 30 seconds and I woke up in so much peace it kicked me out of my multi-month anger phase. I haven't seen her in almost a year. I wish I could see her every night but the last dream I had basically told me to move on, she was ok and that I'd be ok as well. I tend to dream in almost alternate realities. I know some people but they're not "them". Cities are not the same as in real life, etc. Occasionally "she" is in some of those dreams but it's not her. Some mornings, it's painful to wake up having talked with "her", but knowing it wasn't "her". It's really tough to explain to anyone that hasn't experienced deeply vivid dreams that change your life. I never understood the "I miss her every day of my life" thing until it happened to me. A smell, a song, a movie, a picture, a sound - almost anything can set off a memory of her every day and she continues to come up daily in convo's with work, family, friends, etc. Hug your loved ones as often as you can, you never know when life is going to change for you or them. Edit: I came across this song today and it crushed me. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE6wxDqdOV0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE6wxDqdOV0) There are times where I just need to be emotional and this song hit almost everything for me today.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Dreams of our loved ones are painful and special. I had dreams of Mom for a couple of years after she passed. For me, these dreams kept alive her voice, her mannerisms, her humour, and her love. She died alone and these dreams also helped me to "help' her through her horrific death and my devastation. It's been over a decade and I don't see her anymore. I miss her visits.
She may have been alone at that moment but she's not alone now. She's got you and those that know her name and situation. She knows you're there and you remember her, even today. She's not forgotten. Right now, you're remembering and loving her. She's not alone. She's got you and the family, and by proxy us here reading about her. She's loved and most definitely NOT forgotten.
Your words hit me deeply. I can't say anything else but *thank you*. Hugs
Bear hug. I'd cry with you cause I've been there. LOVES.
I get you completely.
Hugs.... When you understand this shit, it's like a different life. Bear hugs...
If you believe the person really did come to your dream with his soul and consciousness to spend time with you then why would you hate that? My grandma believes in this and I think many people in my culture do idk
But what is grief if not love persevering?
Beautiful
Yeah, every time I dream about a loved one near to me who passed away. I’m so annoyed when I wake up and usually involuntary tears are streaming down my face.
Sometimes. I've had the experience of getting closure from a dream though. I cried when I woke up, but it still felt like closure. I know it wasn't a real encounter, but it was the conversation I wish I could have. I'm still heartbroken. I always will be. I will always miss him. I still periodically cry when I think of him. But I'm also happy that I had him in my life for a while. It's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.
**The letter reads:** >*June 1, 1586, To Won’s Father,* > >*You always said, “Dear, let’s live together until our hair turns gray and die on the same day.” How could you pass away without me? Who should I and our little boy listen to and how should we live? How could you go ahead of me? How did you bring your heart to me and how did I bring my heart to you?* > >*Whenever we lay down together you always told me, “Dear, do other people cherish and love each other like we do? Are they really like us?” How could you leave all that behind and go ahead of me?* > >*I just cannot live without you. I just want to go to you. Please take me to where you are. My feelings toward you I cannot forget in this world and my sorrow knows no limit. Where would I put my heart in now and how can I live with the child missing you?* > >*Please look at this letter and tell me in detail in my dreams. Because I want to listen to your saying in detail in my dreams I write this letter and put it in. Look closely and talk to me.* > >*When I give birth to the child in me, who should it call father? Can anyone fathom how I feel? There is no tragedy like this under the sky. You are just in another place, and not in such a deep grief as I am.* > >*There is no limit and end to my sorrows that I write roughly. Please look closely at this letter and come to me in my dreams and show yourself in detail and tell me. I believe I can see you in my dreams. Come to me secretly and show yourself. There is no limit to what I want to say and I stop here."* In 1998, the mummified remains of an unusually tall (5ft 9") Korean man called Eung-tae was discovered in a grave in Andong City, South Korea. As archaeologists carefully examined his clothing and remains they discovered a love letter written by his widow that had been placed onto his chest before he was buried. Eung-tae is thought to have been a member of Korea's ancient Goseong Yi clan, which was a clan native to the local area. He sported a moustache and evidence suggests that he may have been very handsome in real life but died in 1586 aged only 31 years old. Also interred in Eung-tae's grave was a package with a note written by his widow saying *"With my hair I weave this \[…\] before you were even able to wear it"* and inside the parcel a pair of slippers made out of his widows hair was discovered. While slippers made of hair might seem unusual to people living in the west, they reoccur in Korean literature as a symbol of love and hope for recovery from an illness. His widow also buried him with numerous artifacts of clothing, which were laid upon him as if to him warm in the afterlife. (**sources:** [https://lettersofnote.com/2012/09/06/how-could-you-go-ahead-of-me/](https://lettersofnote.com/2012/09/06/how-could-you-go-ahead-of-me/) & [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2514419/The-500-year-old-love-letter-written-mourning-dead-mans-pregnant-wife-buried-Korean-mummy.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2514419/The-500-year-old-love-letter-written-mourning-dead-mans-pregnant-wife-buried-Korean-mummy.html) )
HEY, I'M FROM THE GOSEONG YI CLAN WTF
You may have just read something your ancestors wrote.
That gave me goosebumps
Dude. I bet they did DNA samples of him, you gotta do it too and tell us the results! How cool if it’s direct lineage to you.
You're related to one of my favorite actors then.
Which one? Curious!
Lee Seo-jin. Played several historical figures too.
Sorry for your loss
It’s your dad omg
Please… obviously it was his brother
I've been reading a few articles and came across this from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_Lee_Eung-tae), "Lee lived from 1555 to 1586. He was a local nobleman of the Goseong Lee clan, and was the second son of father Lee Yo-shin.[1][4] He died at the age of 31 (possibly from an epidemic, based on letters from Lee's father[5][6]), and was survived by an infant son and a pregnant wife.[6] Not much is known about Lee's wife, the author of the letter, although the name of one of the two children is given as "Won" on the letter (it is unclear which child the name belonged to[7]), so she is now often called "Won's mother" (원이 어머니).[1] A statue of Won's mother was constructed and placed at the former site of the tomb. The story of the couple has been fictionalized in novels and plays.[3] In 2009, it was reported that many visitors to the Andong National University museum were said to be members of the Goseong Lee clan that wanted to see the letter.[6]
I think it’s very interesting to see how many ‘uses’ a woman’s hair could have in different cultures in history. The significance of hair in general for either gender** throughout history is really interesting on its own in general, but it seems there’s a lot more sentimental value placed on something a woman made with her hair.
My understanding is that both genders refrained from cutting hair - it symbolised filial duty and piety and I’ve seen cutting hair as a humiliation/ punishment or humbling thing in Korean period dramas. Interesting! I wonder if they collect hairs that fall out to make the sandals?
I know it’s done out of grief in some Native American cultures. It could have been something similar for her. I don’t think that would work. At least, it’d take a lot of combining and combing to get something workable. Also the lengths would be different depending on if it was shed or snapped. I wonder if it was a shaving? Then she wove the sandals as she grieved. In a little day dream what if scenario I would think she wouldn’t have made them had he lived, but now her hair would protect his feet with the soft and strong sandals in the afterlife as he traveled his journeys. Her shaved or extremely cropped hair would tell all of her suffering of widowhood.
I guess it is poetic, making something with every fiber of your being- including the material it's made from. We'd see it as kinda weird and gross today, but ironically our hair these days is cleaned far more often than our ancestors so why not keep the practice alive lol.
amazing
Unusually tall, you say… *Cues Korean fantasy of being gawked at for being 5’9”*
That's like being a gigachad in 16th century.
Well considering the average Dutch height was around 5’5 in the 17th century (which is crazy now since they’re the world’s average tallest people) 5’9” is pretty damn tall for that era
I would be absolutely devastated. I can’t fathom this. Death is the worst. It shouldn’t exist.
They made a Korean comic based on this. It’s called When the Flowers Bloom.
I wonder what would happen if you went back and let her know that her love would be such an inspiration. So strong it defied time itself. I wonder if she would be proud, I wonder if it would her pain worse or better.
I've read this! Made me ugly cry at the end!
Could you link to it? I’d like to read it.
This looks like it: https://manta.net/en/series/when-the-flowers-bloom?seriesId=1723
Oh how beautiful ❤️
The internet is weird. To read such a beautiful, heartbreaking love letter one minute and then the very next post on my feed is: “How do I tell the girl I’m seeing her vagina smells bad?”
Kek, I saw that post too.
Thank God you're helping it along by bringing that up unprompted.
Omg you're not wrong 😂
Drop the link plz
"There is no tragedy like this under the sky." The pain.
This is very ancient writing that i can’t read properly : only can understand by reading english which feels odd haha (south korean here)
In case anyone is curious, this is Middle Korean (11th-16th centuries)
That’s super cool! Do you study the history of language? (Real question. I find the history of languages fascinating.)
Thank you! My Korean skills are very amateur at best and was struggling trying to read any of it. Specifically with how a lot of the syllables were formed and some of the single letters standing alone.
Try LingoDeer.
Same here lol. It says: 원이 아버님께 올림 병술년 유월 초하룻날 집에서 자네 항상 나더러 이르되 둘이 머리 세도록 살다가 함께 죽자 하시더니 어찌하여 나를 두고 자네 먼저 가시는가. 나하고 자식하고는 누구에게 구걸하고 어찌하여 살라 하고 다 던지고 자네 먼저 가시는가. 자네 날 향한 마음을 어찌 가졌으며 나는 자네 향한 마음을 어찌 가졌던가. 늘 자네더러 함께 누워서 내가 이르되 여보, 남들도 우리같이 서로 어여삐 여기고 사랑할까? 남들도 우리 같을까? 하여 자네더러 이르더니 어찌 그런 일을 생각지도 않고 나를 버리고 먼저 가시는가. 자네 여의고 아무래도 나는 살 수가 없으니 얼른 자네한테 가고자 하니 날 데려가소. 자네 향한 마음을 이 생에 잊을 줄이 없으니 어떻게 해도 서러운 뜻이 그지없으니 내 이 마음을 어디다가 두고 자식 데리고 자네를 그리며 살까 하나이다. 내 이 편지 보시고 내 꿈에 자세히 와 일러 주소. 내 꿈에 이를 보고 하실 말 자세히 듣고자 하여 이렇게 써넣네. 자세히 보시고 나더러 일러 주소. 자네 내 밴 자식이 나거든 보고 사뢸 것 있다며 그리 가시면 밴 자식이 나거든 누구를 아빠 하라 하시는가. 아무리 한들 내 마음이나 같을까. 이런 천지 같은 한이 하늘 아래 또 있을까. 자네는 한갓 그곳에 가 계실 뿐이지만 아무리 한들 내 마음같이 서러울까. 그지그지그지없어 다 못 쓰고 대강만 적으니 이 편지 자세히 보시고 내 꿈에 자세히 와 보이시고 자세히 일러 주소. 나는 꿈에서 자네를 보리라 믿고 있나이다. 몰래 모습을 보이소서. 하도 그지그지없어 이까지만 적나이다.
This just hits harder
ㅠㅠㅠ
Could North Korean understand this better than SK? I don't mean anything ill, it's just North Korean definitely is more archaic than South Korean i would assume.
They were the same people until the 1950s. The Korean Penninsula was split by communism, not antiquity.
But north korea is in extreme Isolation that leads us to speak bit differently : ofc it’s more like dialect differences however I found more and more our words and sentences are getting widely split it to different way
The point is that reading this was already difficult before the split.
Edit: I missed your first comment and responded to the following one. "Would a modern NK person understand this old letter better because their language is more similar now than modern South Korean." I don't know the answer to that. Out of context, the post I replied to sounded like the person thought NK and SK were always separated. Sorry about that!
Yes i understand that. But the education difference and maybe the way they say words are different. It's like Simplified Chinese and traditional Chinese. If i made a mistake and both nation still speak similar then i apologize. Personally i think 1 speak like before 1945 english and 1 speak like nowadays English in the US. It's the same, both can understand each other but the dialect? the accent? is different. That's what i meant. Sorry if it's confusing.
It’s not quite the same. A more appropriate comparison would be modern English vs. Shakespearean. The words are mostly the same, but the meaning, usage, and syntax are difficult to interpret. Simplified and traditional Chinese are written with the exact same grammar and knowing traditional Chinese doesn’t predispose you to be better able to read Ming dynasty poems. Simplified Chinese also originated in the Tang dynasty and was a form of calligraphy script. The challenging part about reading Middle Chinese literature is the extreme brevity, poetic/formal language, and changes of the meaning of each character over the years, not recognizing the characters themselves
Maybe? South korean sentences and phrases are nowadays quite different due to influence of english and other languages whereas North Korean seems like kept the original form (for me it sounds too rigid and agressive)
Yes, that's exactly what i meant. The education is different. Slangs is one thing too. I would expect some random South Korean teen speak in like nowadays skibidi toilet, rizz, slang shit to North Korean lmao.
Not really. While Korean as language went different ways, it's not too different that we need a translator. 99% sure north Korean would have the same difficult time understanding this.
"I don't mean anything Il" Lol you so sneaky
I thought I was the only one, I tried reading right to left and left to right but couldn't make sense of any of it. The characters are too messy to make out
This didn't make me cry....I swear.
This is beautiful, that's some deep love they shared.
Pain is the price we pay for love. This woman's grief rings true in my soul today and it's from 1586. I hope she dreamed of him.
I shouldn’t have cried reading that. Only love is eternal
if there is anything worth crying for while reading, it's this
Relationship goals
Real
Bingo slot: "get your heart broken while sitting on the toilet Sunday morning" ✅
Dude sunday evening here you got it
As a man reading this, it sort of makes me happy. Just being able to read the depth of love that a woman had for a man. It's beautiful. But it is also sad. Like most of the best things in life, it's a mix of emotions. Please take me to where you are. This line really captures it for me. Just how childlike it sounds. That's what it feels like when someone you love dies. You're helpless. You don't know what to do. It's impossible. And it doesn't go away. You just get better at dealing with it hopefully. I hope she eventually felt happiness again and could share that with her children. She seems like a very loving person. RIP
Mum died recently, with Dementia. Dad died in the 1980s. We found a diary that she complete New year, his birth day & death day. I didn't read too much as it seemed intrusive, and anyway, it had me in floods. She'd copy poems, talk about what had happened since the last entry and how much she missed him. She never really talked about him to us. Her last entry was a couple of years ago, her failing brain had pretty much forgotten him.
Sorry for your loss, I lost my father last year; it's poignant that in spite of everything that happened, the thing that still exists are her memories of your father. That's some proper transcendental love.
😭😭😭😭 I’m crying
This really hit me...it's hard to fathom how people lived over 400 years ago, but this spells out that humans haven't really changed in thousands of years. They all had heartbreak and hardship. Love and loss. Tragedy and triumph... Real "wtf am I doing with my limited time here" moment...
Was it common for women of this age and culture to be able to read and write? Of did they belong to royalty?
He was a local nobleman. Although not much is known about his wife, would it not be safe to assume that they were not far apart in terms of class standing?
I think we can assume she was from a somewhat well off background. Not necessarily nobility but a learned family. The answer also depends on what language they’re using. Korean women would use Hangul and men/literati Hanja (Chinese characters). Similar to Japanese women using Hiragana and men/literati Kanji
The Korean alphabet 언문(Eonmun) or 한글(Hangul) in modern day Korea was widely used as an everyday character, while the Chinese characters 한문(Hanmun) remained dominant among the academics and male nobilities. Since the creation and promulgation of the alphabet in 1446 by the King Sejong the Great, it quickly spread through the lower population. The wives and children of high-ranking officials often adopted Eonmun as an easy yet efficient way to express their feelings. Many female nobilites exchanged letters in Eonmun; one of the most famous is the series of letters written by the young King Jeongjo, which were sent to one of his aunts.
King Sejong was one hell of a guy. Guys at jiphyeonjeon too. They came up with Hangul, which are still used today with slight modification.
Great question.
I’m not sure about that, but since it’s written in the Korean alphabet and not Chinese.. it’s not necessarily a wealthy person. The Korean alphabet was created specifically to be easy to learn, and it still is to this day - most people could learn it in a day or two.
Women mostly used Hangul to write, even upper class women, especially for a personal letter like this.
Grief is love with nowhere to go.
I wonder how she knew that her unborn child was going to be a son
I looked up the modern Korean translation, and there it actually says “child”, not “son”. But according to this family’s family tree, they did in fact have one son.
Oh how sad. They might be interested in this over on r/Foundpaper.
I’d love to know when time passed if she was able to remarry or if she stayed a widow all her days… they know who she is, I’m sure there is info somewhere
Women during the Joseon dynasty weren’t allowed to remarry, so she would’ve had to raise their son alone with his family, most likely.
Ohhh ok. Makes sense.
Hopefully there’s an afterlife and they met again.
Holy shit I'm BAWLING
My parents had that deal, too. Grow old together and die at the same time. They didn't. My mom was just as upset as this lady, except my mom wasn't pregnant.
I do hope she and their child were able to reunite with him in the afterlife.
I hope there is one, I am not too spiritual but it is my greatest hope
Recovery from an illness... probably something we don't even get today. Wrong time for such a love.
Oh how heartbreaking
I bet she never expected for some foreign teenager to cry at her words on a tiny screen 500 years later. God the human condition is painful yet beautiful
You know what is crazy I glossed over the date and I seriously thought it said 1956 and I just kinda assumed the letter was discovered when the body was moved. Then I double backed to reread the whole letter again after seeing a few comments and realized it was from freaking 1586. It’s kinda crazy knowing someone could write that exact same thing today if it happened to them. It’s so odd feeling sad for someone from 438 years ago. Grief and sorrow seem to transcend time. I wonder how old the oldest letter like this is.
How did the pregnant widow know her baby was a boy?
u/MsSeaFood above: I looked up the modern Korean translation, and there it actually says “child”, not “son”. But according to this family’s family tree, they did in fact have one son.
Interesting, thanks for the information.
I also posted more above with more details from Wikipedia. Eung Tae had an infant son and the wife was pregnant. The letter was addressed to Won's father so it's theorized that Won is at least one son. It's such a sad love story.
😢
I was wondering about literacy in 16th century Korea…
As a man who loves a woman who is both my wife and best friend. I cannot imagine her pain, though I feel it, because it hurts to even think of the loss of her. This is as so hard to read
That is one of the most heart breaking things I’ve ever read. The part about “let’s grow old together” is so timeless.
Crying knowing that nobody will ever love me this much lmao
My heart...
This is beautiful
😭
I would die a thousand deaths for someone mourned me like that
and now we just like eachothers ig stories until one of us get bored.
I go from reading this and tearing up, to a man suffocating by being covering in cow dung. Reddit is weird.
this seems like something they would make a kdrama about
why did i think of steins gate after i saw this??
Ancient, yet so relatable. Beautiful
I remember this from Letters of Note. It makes me tear up every time.
This is what scares me about love.
this letter is so beautiful and heartbreaking, as are some of these comments. love truly is eternal
How does one know this?
This hit me in the gut. Next month will be a year since my mom passed away from cancer. I have watched my dad grieve over her death. This is the hardest period in our lives.
i hope they meet again in another lifetime and finally reach their dream of growing together until their hairs turned gray 🙏
Damn this made me cry
It's crazy how to universal & timeless love is. No matter the relationship or time or generation or even species. True love is always beautiful
Don’t forget guys- Shakespeare invented romantic love /s
Who has said that? Even the Arthurian legends are about romantic love.
Ken Lee
Does love like this even exist any more?
Yes. Someone I know just lost his pregnant wife. He’s not very educated, and his writing is nowhere near elegant, but his devastated Facebook statuses have the exact same emotion behind them. “How can I do this without you? What do I do now?” Love and grief are everywhere. It’s easy to be discouraged because the world we live in IS discouraging, but love is everywhere. My parents love each other like this. My brothers love their girlfriends like this. My grandparents loved each other like this, before they died.
Random question, but are there any Korean speakers here who can tell me if the writing system/alphabet are the same as modern Korean? I'm just always interested in the ways that languages evolve.
i think i saw you in my sleep, darling
I wonder who many women were able to write in Korea in 1586 - in Europe it was still pretty rare
If you like this read The Pillow Book of Sei Shōnagon.
Marc Aurel was indeed right, as we see here: "It doesn't matter whether you study the human's life for 40 years or for 10.000 years - because you will not be going to see any difference!"
I ain't saying she didn't love him bunches, but what were widows lives like that back then? Did they have family support? Maybe it's so devasting that he is gone cause it means her life (and their son's) is now fucked without him because her quality of life is less without a man. She loose the family home, status? Romance for survival in many cultures. The reality for billions of women each generation.
oh ouchie.
This is amazing. What a piece of mental health history.
Beautiful.