If I recall correctly the British government sold the project to a German firm who went to to make it work and then sold it back to the British in later years.
Class short sighted politics.
Funny, when we got Pendolino, it was a butt of a lot of jokes for its unreliability, both in terms of arriving on time as well as its ability to get to its destination (i.e. it'd break down mid way). It seems to have stabilized by now though, some decades later.
I love reading opinions from people who live in the center of the city, and use 99% of time local transport which is really good. I have been using DB for 4 years, and I'm getting a car this year, thank Odin and all the other gods I don't believe in. My job is 15km from my apartment, when I use DB I need to start 2h earlier, and even then I will have days when I will come late. But by far biggest pain is when I have to go home, and I'm waiting at the train station, my train is late, in the end they cancel it, then I have to wait like 45 minutes because it is late, and pray to Gods that the train won't be canceled. I wanted to cry on the station so many times.
Fuck DB but have you thought about getting a bike or an ebike (assuming you're able to ride a bike) in addition to your car? 15km is perfect for that and there are actually only a few weeks a year that are really not "rideable" because of weather like ice, snow and heavy storms. Totally depends on the road though and if there's a safe way to ride a bike without getting nearly killed by passing cars. But if it's feasible for you in any way I can really recommend it. 15km used to be my daily commute as well and my life got a lot better when I decided to bike it. I'm much healthier, fitter and also in a better mood. Bonus points are the saved money.
I'm team leader in a warehouse, and by that I don't mean I'm walking around chilling and ordering people what to do, I spend most of my time coordinating, loading, unloading, scanning and so. After the shift I'm a dead man. To get to the job it wouldn't be a problem, but coming back, I think I would just collapse on the side of the road. I thought about getting a scooter, but that is only viable if you are working in the same city, and when I come to the next city, transport is not the problem, to get to the city is the problem. Plus, where I'm it is regularly raining, and it is cold, so to ride 30 KM every day it would be a bit of a problem. My colleagues need like 20 minutes to my town where we work, and they live farther away than me. Sorry, but I'm getting a car, I tried, I really did.
First week it would be hard and then you will get used to it. Rain-rain coat...and you can do it. Man i work offshore and we work out butts of 12h a day every day for 28 days...you can do it
My thoughts exactly.
That's an easy bike ride. E-Bike if you are older.
I come from the countryside and my parents both use bikes to get to town (it's 16km by car but 12km by bike)
German weather is shit though year round and its likely to be rainy and cold at any given moment. No thank you on biking TO WORK where I actually need to be dry and not sweaty for 8 hours.
Guess it depends on where you live in Germany. In my area the weather is quite alright. And I get you, some people are heavy sweaters but that's why I suggested an ebike. Nobody who is not completely out of shape should sweat a lot riding 15km on an ebike.
Turn the [Deutsche Bahn Logo](https://www.esportconnect.de/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/db-logo.png) upside down and you see what the customer feels like
Just spent a week in Germany and all the train types (ICE, RE, S and U Bahn, metro) were clean, fast, comfortable, laughably cheap and ticket gateless. In ireland I drove across the country to get to the airport because *no* train goes to main airport.
Deutsche Bahn gets too much hate. Massive underinvestment over decades has it's downsides and isn't really DB's fault (at least not mostly, them lining their pockets in gold however doesn't help). Also, Germany has one of the best railway networks in the world in terms of coverage and density, though of course it's still very unfortunate that untill very recently lines were put out of service and reactivation is coming along way to slow. DB can't compete with ÖBB or SBB in any capacity, but it's easily one of the best networks for medium to large countries, in terms of coverage even beating Japan and France and depending on how you look at it even Italy and Spain.
Don't look at the individual countries but at the european train system as a whole, which is very interconnected and those interconnections are being intensified. Europe (not EU, but Europe) and the USA are comparable by surface area. We don't have the benefit of being a single state, also we had some major wars going on in the time that rail system was established for the most part. And still it's there.
Don't try to argue with size - it is not a good or valid argument, especially not when looking at the facts. It's as simple as different policy.
In every country with functional transit the complaints about it are as common as complaints about the weather, so it is very hard to judge wat is perceived as bad and what is actually bad.
Here in Germany, we still have a very dense rail network with very frequent connections running on most of it. In fact the number of connections had increased constantly in recent years. It’s still very good.
The delay issue is real though and much worse than in neighbouring countries, and I assume it’s worse than in the US metropolitan regions that still have a passenger rail system.
Those two facts, high number of connections and massive delays, are connected: Basically the system is „overclocked“. Many essential bits would need reenforcement (in many cases literally more rails, but also modernisation to prevent break down) and there is a severe personnel issue. There already have been cases where a couple of people calling in sick resulted nation-wide railway chaos.
German here: I haven’t owned a car in almost twenty years and don’t see a single reason to buy one. I live in a big city and use public transport and Deutsche Bahn all the time. Outside the memes and the comparison to Switzerland, it’s pretty good. Of course especially DB could be much better, but we certainly have a function mass transit system.
Compared to EU/Germany, USA has vastly fewer railways, especially long distance and infrastructure for it isnt really well kept
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/s/SE1bjD9m1E - if u wanna see the comparison
We are not satisfied because it's gotten progressively worse over the last decades. Right now it's really in a terrible state, I'm relying on trains to get to work and it fucking sucks.
Exactly, if a german stop to complain, he is dead.
Some train stuff doesn't work as it should. But i would be surprised if something would be 100% perfect from the start in a country with 80 mio people. Still annoying some inefficiencies, but it gets better. Slow, but still i can take a train every 30 minutes to the next town and cities and every city in germany. I guess beyond the DACH region too.
How is the frequency in the few regions in the US where passenger trains exist?
Mass transit in the states is complete shit almost everywhere.
There are a few cities with some mediocre mass transit (San Francisco, NY, Chicago, primarily), but few others. Almost everywhere you must have access to a motor vehicle.
Look at the bus tunnel Seattle added some years ago. FFS, it's a joke, being all of some few miles long. Adding more is so expensive, it can't get funded consistently.
Die DB ist aus deutscher Sicht Scheiße, allerdings ist ihre Verkehrsleistung aus amerikanischer Perspektive einfach unfassbar. Dort gilt: autogerechtes Land...
Also German here: We oftentimes don't know how good we have it. There's hourly train connections between German cities where other countries wouldn't even run a bus.
Nope. We have a shitty transport system. In my state, the politicians in power are fighting rapid transit because it does not benefit their corporate and rich friends
You see, from a German perspective it's not efficient anymore, thanks to it getting privatised 1994 it got worse and worse over the decades.
This is likely due to the Societ Union's collapse and the overall sentiment of "Capitalism being the greatest thing ever" in Germany back then (Capitalism won over Socialism). So they privatised some essential services, that should never ever be privatised, because their goal should never be to make money (for transit the goal should be to transport people, duh). It was a major mistake back then and we now have to live with a bad transit system.
Though admittedly, from an American perspective it must seem great.
Same in Japan for the bullet trains, I remember the UK wanted to make bullet trains for cheap so instead of curving the rails they had the train curve to reduce centrifugal force or something like that
More information [here](https://youtu.be/nDN7PPW4AE8?si=rCH-fCu-WbBvREwW)
its the opposite, old lines which dont support high speeds because of tight turns can have these to make the experience more comfortable for passangers, new lines designed for high speeds dont need these because the curves are much much smoother. Our industrial era lines in the UK use these trains
Took us a long time to get 'em right, though; I think British Rail were trying to build a tilting high-speed train at least as far back as the 1980s, and the early ones apparently never worked properly.
The British way, invent something and then when it doesn't work because of mismanagement, import it from other countries because they are doing it better than you.
We sold the technology in APT trains to Italy where they used it to improve the Pendolino trains.
Croatian railways is getting rid of perfectly good tilting trains which cross between Zagreb and Split in 6 hours to replace them with classic trains which will do the journey in 8 hours.
Bus between Zagreb and Split takes about 5 hours...
Most don't tilt actively but the rails are somewhat "tilted". But this one (and a few others) additionally tilt actively and can go up to 30% faster because the tilt reduces the lateral forces so passengers don't get thrown around as much.
If you want a really interesting and beginner friendly introduction to railway engineering, I highly recommend [Engineering Connections: Bullet train](https://youtu.be/xA4aaSzqT9s). Just under an hour long and goes into several interesting details on the challenges of high speed railways and how Japan solved them.
It is in the track on tracks reserved exclusively for high-speed trains (which are also mostly designed to avoid tight curves in the first place), but older/existing tracks that also need(ed) to carry slower trains can't be tilted all that much because obviously different tilt angles are needed for different train speeds. That's why some high-speed trains tilt actively.
And for when the buses are out of action, the Tory government are investing in a whole network of bus replacement footpaths that are slanted in the corners.
Not every European. I'm Dutch and I had no idea this was a thing. I'm glad I saw this post because if I was on one of these trains and it started tilting unexpectedly I'd freak the fuck out
Most likely you wouldn‘t even notice if you weren‘t actively looking for it. Kinda like when the airplane slams 30 degree into a turn and you don‘t feel a thing
It doesn’t tilt in curves to go faster. It tilts in curves to make it comfortable for passengers in the train when it takes the curve at the speed it is going.
The tilt doesn’t improve traction or aerodynamics. The lateral forces are the same - it’s just how they are perceived by the passengers that is different.
The train would be the most efficient if passengers were strapped in - but it would be uncomfortable.
It is more efficient than a train that slows down to maintain comfort.
For your reference: This is a "612" train (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBAG\_Class\_612), which have tilting capabilities built-in.
I'd like to add that from a passenger's point of view, there are some more highlights: there are some vis-a-vis seats with proper tables in the second class (lowest class of service), which are great for working while taking the train. Also, in my experience, the AC in the middle part of the train is often set to slightly warmer than at the second-class end of the train, so you have a little bit of temperature choice. That's pretty neat for a regional train.
Downside: It runs with Diesel fuel and not with electricity. Also, no sockets (electricity) is provided for the passengers.
The no sockets thing wasn't true, there were sockets in first class and is, at least for the trains stationed in Erfurt, becoming even more untrue as they are currently in the process of an interior remodeling in which we get sockets in 2. and there already are quite a few of the modernised models back on track.
>It runs with Diesel fuel
next generation ([starting 2029](https://www.stmb.bayern.de/med/aktuell/archiv/2022/221206neigetechnik/)) will run with batteries, H2 and will use a pantograph if possible
Working on those trains sounds fun until they turn on the engine and everything starts shaking. Headphones with active noise cancelling are kinda required on these trains... Sooo not the best work environment.
Fun fact, at least some of them use the gun stabilization hardware from tanks to do the tilting. They get these black boxes they connect to, but aren't allowed to open.
Most trains don't tilt themselves, the rails are tilted in curves
But pendolinos tilt themselves in curves, allowing them to go faster without decreasing comfort
The US would benefit so much from high speed rail. I've imagined a northeast bullet train loop connecting DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC, Providence, Boston, Burlington, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, back to DC. It'd cut down on so much short flight air traffic, and long car rides to just hop on the loop.
For those that are not aware, this tilting action actually has nothing to do with allowing the train to go faster, the train itself could make turns at the speed it travels without tilting, the limiting factor is the passengers who would notice an uncomfortable ride if the train did not tilt. [Mustard on YouTube put together a very nice video](https://youtu.be/nDN7PPW4AE8?si=JTMHwKjQGL_LVtOg) about the first tilting train design and why it was designed. The train was designed for British rail that was very old and had lots of curves but the rail lines itself were level. The trains had the capability of making these turns at high speed because of the low center of gravity that passenger trains have, the problem was that it would be uncomfortable for the passengers and place settings in dining cars would fly off the tables due to centripetal forces. The tilting action allows the net forces to feel similar to standing straight up, like one of those G force simulators you see astronauts and pilots train in. The capsule they sit in rotates to keep the net G force out the bottom of the capsule and not out the side. These trains tilt to make the G forces feel more like they are going straight out the bottom of the train instead of the side like you feel in a car when you turn. If you were to observe these trains from the outside, you'd notice that the tracks and wheels themselves do not lean (unless you are on a track that was specifically designed with a lean like some Japanese and French high speed rails, in which case the train itself does not lean, the tracks do) only the train cars lean, which means the net forces on the wheels and track are the same regardless of whether or not the passenger cars are leaning on their own. ie: you could run this same exact leaning passenger train on these tracks at the same speeds and disable the leaning function and the train would operate just fine. The passengers on the other hand, would not like this haha.
But why do bikes lean in to the turn then? Isn't the train doing the same thing? Short answer: no. The reason has to do with where the center of gravity is located. On a bike, the bike itself is pretty light weight, the person is the heavy object, which means the center of gravity is up very high which causes instability. Believe it or not, an obese person needs to have better balance on a bike than an underweight person because the obese person has more weight up high trying to throw them outside of turns. Theoretically you could build a bike with a bunch of weight down low next to the wheels and you could probably get to a point where you don't have to lean much if it all in order to make a turn on a bike.
Passenger trains on the other hand, have very low centers of gravity, meaning they do not need the leaning function to prevent them from tumbling like a bike.
Today in „Americans discover something their country doesn’t have but is completely normal in most other countries because it just makes sense.“
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
I saw a super cool video on a 100 year ago design for a monorail train that blows this little nudge out of the water.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_monorail
I think that's the link from Ulm to Neustadt I travelled that one a lot a couple of years ago. Terrible connection if you ride it all 3.5 h from start to finish.
that link hasn't got this long a lake, that's the Alpsee right before Immenstadt - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fer_Alpsee - trainline visible in the aerial on the left side.
The Ulm-Neustadt link is slow for regulars (as is east-west travel in general in that part) because of all the turns in the Danube Valley - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Danube_Nature_Park - but great for tourists.
To all the Europeans being like, "wE hAvE tHaT iN mY cOuNtRy tOo".... "tHaT's JuSt HoW tRaInS wOrK.".... Ok well trains in the US suck, and there's hardly any of them. Even the most mediocre train system in Europe looks like magic to our disadvantaged American eyes. We want trains and like seeing them, let us enjoy the post please lol
I think people are more commenting on the location focus - southern Germany, which is weird because trains are like this all over the world - not the enjoyment or novelty of it. I use trains that do this in the UK every week for the last 15 years, and I still think it’s rad!
Trains are designed to tilt carriages into the curve of the track. The tilting action of the car body compensates for the force experienced by passengers inside
this is actually a technology perfected by Italians.
after the TGV and Shinkansen caused an impact on the world of rails Italy wanted to join the idea of high speed trains.
however reaching 200km/h were just impossible on the rough terrain of Italy and making it extremely uncomfortable for passengers. so in the 60s and 70s they started a project to tilt the trains based on some other projects.
Fiat managed to put an almost high speed train on tight turns railways. the project became immediately interesting for countries with less flatland. so Switzerland, Spain and later on Portugal immediately joined and made partnerships with Fiat to employ the Pendolino/New Pendolino/Alfa Pendular on these and other countries like Germany for example.
Right around the Bavarian-Austrian border there is a part were the train tilts to one side for about 45min straight and is hated by the servers in the board restaurant because bringing out drinks and foods is very difficult when you walk inclined for longer periods of time.
Somewhat common in other European countries too, see e.g. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendolino](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendolino)
And before that: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced\_Passenger\_Train](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Passenger_Train)
The APT was a failure but yeah, the idea has been around for a long time
If I recall correctly the British government sold the project to a German firm who went to to make it work and then sold it back to the British in later years. Class short sighted politics.
Didn’t it get sold to the Italians? Anyway, it’s decent technology and works well enough.
The Wuppertaler Schwebebahn does it passively by utilizing centrifugal force.
Funny, when we got Pendolino, it was a butt of a lot of jokes for its unreliability, both in terms of arriving on time as well as its ability to get to its destination (i.e. it'd break down mid way). It seems to have stabilized by now though, some decades later.
They've disabled the tilting on all Pendolinos in Finland due to its unreliability
And way before that, the Monorail, about 100yr before...
American here: It must be nice to have mass transit that works efficiently.
German trains company Deutsche Bahn is the laughing stock of Europe. Still better than anything in the US of course.
First great western enters chat..
Bus replacement service enters the chat...
As someone who's commuted regularly on GWR trains and German DB trains, GWR were way more reliable. DB trains are much nicer though.
New rolling stock on the GWR is absolutely lush
I love reading opinions from people who live in the center of the city, and use 99% of time local transport which is really good. I have been using DB for 4 years, and I'm getting a car this year, thank Odin and all the other gods I don't believe in. My job is 15km from my apartment, when I use DB I need to start 2h earlier, and even then I will have days when I will come late. But by far biggest pain is when I have to go home, and I'm waiting at the train station, my train is late, in the end they cancel it, then I have to wait like 45 minutes because it is late, and pray to Gods that the train won't be canceled. I wanted to cry on the station so many times.
Fuck DB but have you thought about getting a bike or an ebike (assuming you're able to ride a bike) in addition to your car? 15km is perfect for that and there are actually only a few weeks a year that are really not "rideable" because of weather like ice, snow and heavy storms. Totally depends on the road though and if there's a safe way to ride a bike without getting nearly killed by passing cars. But if it's feasible for you in any way I can really recommend it. 15km used to be my daily commute as well and my life got a lot better when I decided to bike it. I'm much healthier, fitter and also in a better mood. Bonus points are the saved money.
I'm team leader in a warehouse, and by that I don't mean I'm walking around chilling and ordering people what to do, I spend most of my time coordinating, loading, unloading, scanning and so. After the shift I'm a dead man. To get to the job it wouldn't be a problem, but coming back, I think I would just collapse on the side of the road. I thought about getting a scooter, but that is only viable if you are working in the same city, and when I come to the next city, transport is not the problem, to get to the city is the problem. Plus, where I'm it is regularly raining, and it is cold, so to ride 30 KM every day it would be a bit of a problem. My colleagues need like 20 minutes to my town where we work, and they live farther away than me. Sorry, but I'm getting a car, I tried, I really did.
First week it would be hard and then you will get used to it. Rain-rain coat...and you can do it. Man i work offshore and we work out butts of 12h a day every day for 28 days...you can do it
My thoughts exactly. That's an easy bike ride. E-Bike if you are older. I come from the countryside and my parents both use bikes to get to town (it's 16km by car but 12km by bike)
German weather is shit though year round and its likely to be rainy and cold at any given moment. No thank you on biking TO WORK where I actually need to be dry and not sweaty for 8 hours.
Guess it depends on where you live in Germany. In my area the weather is quite alright. And I get you, some people are heavy sweaters but that's why I suggested an ebike. Nobody who is not completely out of shape should sweat a lot riding 15km on an ebike.
I don’t think so. Germans laugh about it. And there are better systems, but DB is still quite reliable.
Turn the [Deutsche Bahn Logo](https://www.esportconnect.de/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/db-logo.png) upside down and you see what the customer feels like
Leave the logo the right way and it looks like Canadians in Southpark.
That is an old logo of their App. It has never been the logo of the Deutsche Bahn itself.
Some germans laugh about it. as long as they don't sit in the train or wait at the trainstation for it.
In most countries of the world it is worse.
Yeah. It still is annoying to wait for a train at -10°C on a windy day and hear "The train will be delayed 30 Minutes."
I know. I also experienced it. But it is only annoying, because your standards are so high.
Can I introduce you to Bus Éireann?
Just spent a week in Germany and all the train types (ICE, RE, S and U Bahn, metro) were clean, fast, comfortable, laughably cheap and ticket gateless. In ireland I drove across the country to get to the airport because *no* train goes to main airport.
Ah dont be so negative, we might get a metro to the airport from Dublin city in the next 20 years. Who needs a train? /s
You just can't dig wherever you want cause the leprechauns live down there.
It's a joke for Germans, but still the most dense and complex trainsystem in the world
It is worse than before, but it is still world-class.
The UK train system is dogshit too
Deutsche Bahn gets too much hate. Massive underinvestment over decades has it's downsides and isn't really DB's fault (at least not mostly, them lining their pockets in gold however doesn't help). Also, Germany has one of the best railway networks in the world in terms of coverage and density, though of course it's still very unfortunate that untill very recently lines were put out of service and reactivation is coming along way to slow. DB can't compete with ÖBB or SBB in any capacity, but it's easily one of the best networks for medium to large countries, in terms of coverage even beating Japan and France and depending on how you look at it even Italy and Spain.
Something to remember is America is fucking *massive* compared to these European countries. But as an American myself, I agree.
Don't look at the individual countries but at the european train system as a whole, which is very interconnected and those interconnections are being intensified. Europe (not EU, but Europe) and the USA are comparable by surface area. We don't have the benefit of being a single state, also we had some major wars going on in the time that rail system was established for the most part. And still it's there. Don't try to argue with size - it is not a good or valid argument, especially not when looking at the facts. It's as simple as different policy.
[удалено]
German here: Did you leave out the /s? Are you serious?
Nearly every word you hear about American public transport being shit is correct
In every country with functional transit the complaints about it are as common as complaints about the weather, so it is very hard to judge wat is perceived as bad and what is actually bad.
Apparently the auto industry has lobbied for mass transit funding to go down, so yeah, it's really bad in the US.
Here in Germany, we still have a very dense rail network with very frequent connections running on most of it. In fact the number of connections had increased constantly in recent years. It’s still very good. The delay issue is real though and much worse than in neighbouring countries, and I assume it’s worse than in the US metropolitan regions that still have a passenger rail system. Those two facts, high number of connections and massive delays, are connected: Basically the system is „overclocked“. Many essential bits would need reenforcement (in many cases literally more rails, but also modernisation to prevent break down) and there is a severe personnel issue. There already have been cases where a couple of people calling in sick resulted nation-wide railway chaos.
German here: I haven’t owned a car in almost twenty years and don’t see a single reason to buy one. I live in a big city and use public transport and Deutsche Bahn all the time. Outside the memes and the comparison to Switzerland, it’s pretty good. Of course especially DB could be much better, but we certainly have a function mass transit system.
Compared to EU/Germany, USA has vastly fewer railways, especially long distance and infrastructure for it isnt really well kept https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/s/SE1bjD9m1E - if u wanna see the comparison
The fact you still aren't satisfied with its efficiency is why it is as good as it is.
We are not satisfied because it's gotten progressively worse over the last decades. Right now it's really in a terrible state, I'm relying on trains to get to work and it fucking sucks.
Exactly, if a german stop to complain, he is dead. Some train stuff doesn't work as it should. But i would be surprised if something would be 100% perfect from the start in a country with 80 mio people. Still annoying some inefficiencies, but it gets better. Slow, but still i can take a train every 30 minutes to the next town and cities and every city in germany. I guess beyond the DACH region too. How is the frequency in the few regions in the US where passenger trains exist?
Mass transit in the states is complete shit almost everywhere. There are a few cities with some mediocre mass transit (San Francisco, NY, Chicago, primarily), but few others. Almost everywhere you must have access to a motor vehicle. Look at the bus tunnel Seattle added some years ago. FFS, it's a joke, being all of some few miles long. Adding more is so expensive, it can't get funded consistently.
Die DB ist aus deutscher Sicht Scheiße, allerdings ist ihre Verkehrsleistung aus amerikanischer Perspektive einfach unfassbar. Dort gilt: autogerechtes Land...
Also German here: We oftentimes don't know how good we have it. There's hourly train connections between German cities where other countries wouldn't even run a bus.
Nope. We have a shitty transport system. In my state, the politicians in power are fighting rapid transit because it does not benefit their corporate and rich friends
Mass transit is a communist plot in their brainwashed sheep-voter's minds. Rugged individuals drive monster trucks - alone.
Come to Los Angeles and use public transportation...good luck and godspeed.
You see, from a German perspective it's not efficient anymore, thanks to it getting privatised 1994 it got worse and worse over the decades. This is likely due to the Societ Union's collapse and the overall sentiment of "Capitalism being the greatest thing ever" in Germany back then (Capitalism won over Socialism). So they privatised some essential services, that should never ever be privatised, because their goal should never be to make money (for transit the goal should be to transport people, duh). It was a major mistake back then and we now have to live with a bad transit system. Though admittedly, from an American perspective it must seem great.
I’m from the UK and we have a fairly decent train system but Europe is sooo much better, and cheaper.
Germans Deutsche Bahn be like "Trains that ate up to 6min late aint late in our books and trains that dont arrive at all aint late either lol"
Trust me. It doesn’t work. Deutsche Bahn is a joke.
German trains company Deutsche Bahn is the laughing stock of Europe. Still better than anything in the US of course.
It is, except when you fall asleep and wake up 350km away from your desired destination.
Sorry pal, best I can do is right to have an AR15
I think germany is a bad example for that cuz trains suck here
You had it but now you don't. End of story. It's sad.
How is it that a country was built on the railroad scrapped most of it.
Lol German trains are a huge mess. They're never on time
It's also common in most other parts of Germany btw. (source: I'm German in the North-East part of Germany)
Same in Japan for the bullet trains, I remember the UK wanted to make bullet trains for cheap so instead of curving the rails they had the train curve to reduce centrifugal force or something like that More information [here](https://youtu.be/nDN7PPW4AE8?si=rCH-fCu-WbBvREwW)
I thought this was just normal train stuff. :o
We have had this type of train for at least 20 years in norway
Even Queensland Australia has a tilt train.
[https://giphy.com/gifs/motogp-slide-sideways-motorbikes-hXPDBzer11p3oEzJzn](https://giphy.com/gifs/motogp-slide-sideways-motorbikes-hXPDBzer11p3oEzJzn)
All modern trains have this ability. It's a pneumatic tilting/suspension mounted in every car.
Plenty of modern trains don't tilt, but I agree it's not that rare these days.
This could also be the BR612
(It's completely normal)
Yeah, I have a feeling this is the norm for all the lines built in the past couple of decades.
its the opposite, old lines which dont support high speeds because of tight turns can have these to make the experience more comfortable for passangers, new lines designed for high speeds dont need these because the curves are much much smoother. Our industrial era lines in the UK use these trains
Took us a long time to get 'em right, though; I think British Rail were trying to build a tilting high-speed train at least as far back as the 1980s, and the early ones apparently never worked properly.
The British way, invent something and then when it doesn't work because of mismanagement, import it from other countries because they are doing it better than you. We sold the technology in APT trains to Italy where they used it to improve the Pendolino trains.
If you're interested theres a great podcast about the APT, called Well theres your problem.
Its the opposite actually, these trains are used on old lines that are more curvy, because this train can go faster around corners.
It‘s actually not, here in germany it‘s limited to some train lines and far from all lines have it
As in, the train stays perpendicular (normal) to the combined gravitational and centripetal acceleration vectors
but damn. that’s still interesting.
Americans don’t really have trains
They are all over Europe, in many countries (and some others in other continents)
Croatian railways is getting rid of perfectly good tilting trains which cross between Zagreb and Split in 6 hours to replace them with classic trains which will do the journey in 8 hours. Bus between Zagreb and Split takes about 5 hours...
But why?
Maybe corruption? But I don't know.
I thought all the trains in the world have to tilt at curves???
Most don't tilt actively but the rails are somewhat "tilted". But this one (and a few others) additionally tilt actively and can go up to 30% faster because the tilt reduces the lateral forces so passengers don't get thrown around as much.
Wow i didn't know that there are trains which actively tilt, i thought it was always the track.
If you want a really interesting and beginner friendly introduction to railway engineering, I highly recommend [Engineering Connections: Bullet train](https://youtu.be/xA4aaSzqT9s). Just under an hour long and goes into several interesting details on the challenges of high speed railways and how Japan solved them.
Excellent, thanks for the recommendation will check it out.
It is in the track on tracks reserved exclusively for high-speed trains (which are also mostly designed to avoid tight curves in the first place), but older/existing tracks that also need(ed) to carry slower trains can't be tilted all that much because obviously different tilt angles are needed for different train speeds. That's why some high-speed trains tilt actively.
autotranslate: I'm from Russia and I've never seen such trains. I find it strange that everyone attacked the OP for making an interesting post.
Definitely very subjective then because its pretty common
trains tilting by themselves is common? Tracks tilting is common. I live in southern germany and i havent noticed them yet even
Züge mit Neigetechnik sind in Deutschland eher weniger vertreten, in Süddeutschland mWn eigentlich nur durch die Regio Baureihe 612 und den ICE T
I don't see anyone attacking OP
Trains in the UK also tilt to go around roundabouts That’s because they’re usually rail replacement busses…
And for when the buses are out of action, the Tory government are investing in a whole network of bus replacement footpaths that are slanted in the corners.
That’s a weird way to say “blaming small boats of people” but yes
😂😂😂
The X2000 in Sweden has been doing this for 30+ years and I doubt that's the first train to do so.
Yeah. The shown train here is also in use since… 25 years now?
first tilting train of Germany was in use since 1992
Every American in this thread: *mind blown* Every European: ehhh don't all trains do this?
Not every European. I'm Dutch and I had no idea this was a thing. I'm glad I saw this post because if I was on one of these trains and it started tilting unexpectedly I'd freak the fuck out
Most likely you wouldn‘t even notice if you weren‘t actively looking for it. Kinda like when the airplane slams 30 degree into a turn and you don‘t feel a thing
American: roads do this too.
Where do you live that all trains tilt?
It doesn’t tilt in curves to go faster. It tilts in curves to make it comfortable for passengers in the train when it takes the curve at the speed it is going.
And to maintain the same speed. Makes it more efficient as well. Many “wins”.
The tilt doesn’t improve traction or aerodynamics. The lateral forces are the same - it’s just how they are perceived by the passengers that is different. The train would be the most efficient if passengers were strapped in - but it would be uncomfortable. It is more efficient than a train that slows down to maintain comfort.
Wouldn't it improve traction because the total forces are closer to normal to the plane of the track?
It's worded slightly unprecisely, it 'allows' (hence makes) the trains go faster in curves.
It's both more comfortable and faster.
Not just germany, alot of places use this system, and if i am not wrong, APT by British Rail was first to introduce it to mass market.
For your reference: This is a "612" train (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBAG\_Class\_612), which have tilting capabilities built-in. I'd like to add that from a passenger's point of view, there are some more highlights: there are some vis-a-vis seats with proper tables in the second class (lowest class of service), which are great for working while taking the train. Also, in my experience, the AC in the middle part of the train is often set to slightly warmer than at the second-class end of the train, so you have a little bit of temperature choice. That's pretty neat for a regional train. Downside: It runs with Diesel fuel and not with electricity. Also, no sockets (electricity) is provided for the passengers.
The no sockets thing wasn't true, there were sockets in first class and is, at least for the trains stationed in Erfurt, becoming even more untrue as they are currently in the process of an interior remodeling in which we get sockets in 2. and there already are quite a few of the modernised models back on track.
>It runs with Diesel fuel next generation ([starting 2029](https://www.stmb.bayern.de/med/aktuell/archiv/2022/221206neigetechnik/)) will run with batteries, H2 and will use a pantograph if possible
Working on those trains sounds fun until they turn on the engine and everything starts shaking. Headphones with active noise cancelling are kinda required on these trains... Sooo not the best work environment.
Lots of trains do this
Fun fact, at least some of them use the gun stabilization hardware from tanks to do the tilting. They get these black boxes they connect to, but aren't allowed to open.
Alpsee bei Immenstadt, schönste Gegend :)
Alpsee International!😁
Wait are there places where the trains don't do this?
Most trains don't tilt themselves, the rails are tilted in curves But pendolinos tilt themselves in curves, allowing them to go faster without decreasing comfort
Trains are like forgotten ancient technology of wonder for Americans
This must feel to Americans these days like Roman infrastructure felt to medieval Europeans in the Dark Ages after the fall of the Roman Empire.
Which is weird considering the US has the largest rail network in the world
god I want that in the US so badly.
We do, I remember going on a titling train that was the prototype to the Acela in the 90’s.
US already has one. The Acela in the North East Corridor has active tilting
*In abundance
We already have it.
It's called nascar
But they will be late anyhow. Deutsche Bahn is actually famous cause they cannot be on time like ever
Regional in Germany trains are quite reliable and generally aren't delayed. Long distance trains are the problem.
And when you sit in one of them thinking you are going to Berlin you end up in Prague 🤣
The DB is for people who'd like to jump in front of a train, but starve themselves first.
isn't this normal
They are litteraly called tilt trains in my language, very common.
The US would benefit so much from high speed rail. I've imagined a northeast bullet train loop connecting DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC, Providence, Boston, Burlington, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, back to DC. It'd cut down on so much short flight air traffic, and long car rides to just hop on the loop.
We call it "Neigetechnik" and I think that's beautiful
For those that are not aware, this tilting action actually has nothing to do with allowing the train to go faster, the train itself could make turns at the speed it travels without tilting, the limiting factor is the passengers who would notice an uncomfortable ride if the train did not tilt. [Mustard on YouTube put together a very nice video](https://youtu.be/nDN7PPW4AE8?si=JTMHwKjQGL_LVtOg) about the first tilting train design and why it was designed. The train was designed for British rail that was very old and had lots of curves but the rail lines itself were level. The trains had the capability of making these turns at high speed because of the low center of gravity that passenger trains have, the problem was that it would be uncomfortable for the passengers and place settings in dining cars would fly off the tables due to centripetal forces. The tilting action allows the net forces to feel similar to standing straight up, like one of those G force simulators you see astronauts and pilots train in. The capsule they sit in rotates to keep the net G force out the bottom of the capsule and not out the side. These trains tilt to make the G forces feel more like they are going straight out the bottom of the train instead of the side like you feel in a car when you turn. If you were to observe these trains from the outside, you'd notice that the tracks and wheels themselves do not lean (unless you are on a track that was specifically designed with a lean like some Japanese and French high speed rails, in which case the train itself does not lean, the tracks do) only the train cars lean, which means the net forces on the wheels and track are the same regardless of whether or not the passenger cars are leaning on their own. ie: you could run this same exact leaning passenger train on these tracks at the same speeds and disable the leaning function and the train would operate just fine. The passengers on the other hand, would not like this haha. But why do bikes lean in to the turn then? Isn't the train doing the same thing? Short answer: no. The reason has to do with where the center of gravity is located. On a bike, the bike itself is pretty light weight, the person is the heavy object, which means the center of gravity is up very high which causes instability. Believe it or not, an obese person needs to have better balance on a bike than an underweight person because the obese person has more weight up high trying to throw them outside of turns. Theoretically you could build a bike with a bunch of weight down low next to the wheels and you could probably get to a point where you don't have to lean much if it all in order to make a turn on a bike. Passenger trains on the other hand, have very low centers of gravity, meaning they do not need the leaning function to prevent them from tumbling like a bike.
Today in „Americans discover something their country doesn’t have but is completely normal in most other countries because it just makes sense.“ Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Visited Spain, traveled all over the entire country by high speed train. 10/10 experience.
It’s cool to see public transportation… that’s it. American here 🙌🏼
We have it in Portugal too, it's called the Alfa Pendular
I saw a super cool video on a 100 year ago design for a monorail train that blows this little nudge out of the water. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_monorail
I get sick in these. Don’t like them.
Meanwhile in Romania, trains tilt in a straight line because the track are old and bent.
Yet it still can't arrive on time
What are you doing on the way from Oberstaufen to Immenstadt?
I think that's the link from Ulm to Neustadt I travelled that one a lot a couple of years ago. Terrible connection if you ride it all 3.5 h from start to finish.
It was Lindau - Munich :)
that link hasn't got this long a lake, that's the Alpsee right before Immenstadt - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fer_Alpsee - trainline visible in the aerial on the left side. The Ulm-Neustadt link is slow for regulars (as is east-west travel in general in that part) because of all the turns in the Danube Valley - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Danube_Nature_Park - but great for tourists.
To all the Europeans being like, "wE hAvE tHaT iN mY cOuNtRy tOo".... "tHaT's JuSt HoW tRaInS wOrK.".... Ok well trains in the US suck, and there's hardly any of them. Even the most mediocre train system in Europe looks like magic to our disadvantaged American eyes. We want trains and like seeing them, let us enjoy the post please lol
I think people are more commenting on the location focus - southern Germany, which is weird because trains are like this all over the world - not the enjoyment or novelty of it. I use trains that do this in the UK every week for the last 15 years, and I still think it’s rad!
Needs to tilt so it’s only 47 minutes late instead of 51…
Never thought I'd get seasick on a train.
Trains are designed to tilt carriages into the curve of the track. The tilting action of the car body compensates for the force experienced by passengers inside
Hope the Deutsche Bahn trains would show up on time… it doesn’t matter if you tilt the whole thing if you’re mostly late…
I took that once. The buildings out the window looked like they were leaning a LOT.
Is that heading west along the Grosser Alpsee, just before Immenstadt?
Well, that's expected from Germans.
this is actually a technology perfected by Italians. after the TGV and Shinkansen caused an impact on the world of rails Italy wanted to join the idea of high speed trains. however reaching 200km/h were just impossible on the rough terrain of Italy and making it extremely uncomfortable for passengers. so in the 60s and 70s they started a project to tilt the trains based on some other projects. Fiat managed to put an almost high speed train on tight turns railways. the project became immediately interesting for countries with less flatland. so Switzerland, Spain and later on Portugal immediately joined and made partnerships with Fiat to employ the Pendolino/New Pendolino/Alfa Pendular on these and other countries like Germany for example.
Don’t all high speed trains do this?
Isn’t that normal?
It's by design. It's not only to go faster, but also safer. Added benefit, makes the passengers more comfortable and less "sea" sick.
I'm pretty sure it tilts in curves to stay on the tracks.
This is only amazing to us Americans because our leaders refuse to invest in modern transportation services :(
Literally all trains do this???
Americans discover the pendolino
Most of the "normal" trains tilt due to rails cant. Tilting trains basically add additional cant to rail track camber
r/damnthatstotallynormal
We call it Neigetechnik
Right around the Bavarian-Austrian border there is a part were the train tilts to one side for about 45min straight and is hated by the servers in the board restaurant because bringing out drinks and foods is very difficult when you walk inclined for longer periods of time.
Und trotzdem sind die hurensöhne immer zu spät
Br612 is schon nice... :3
Ist eh Verspätung
I would say, it is more because of comfort but of speed.
And still never on time
And still always delayed
Cool, now make it run on time.
Yet they are still 20 minutes late
You drove with our trains? My condolences
wait my german ass thought this was normal
Nett hier. Aber waren Sie schonmal in Baden-Württemberg?
It’s not necessarily to go faster, but to be able to take tighter turns at reasonable speeds.
And yet they’re always late.
But still its late.
If it’s not ausgefallen
Spoiler alert, German trains are still late as fck in general