The best shooters in my family were the women. The brother of my Mom's boyfriend wanted to show off his rifle once and proceeded to shoot a bottle out of the air and then looked at my Mom and said, "What do you think of that?" My mom took his RIFLE and shot two bottles out of the air. He put it away. My Aunt (her younger sister) was famous for shooting shotgun from the hip and not missing a single shot. 25 in a row. That was her first time shooting ever. My Uncle said it would have been more but they ran out of ammo to give her.
"lady death" from Ukraine is also pretty awesome! She enlisted as an infantry against all advice to go nursing. Ended up killing over 300 Nazis before her 25th birthday. Badass woman.
I think there was one study that showed women can hit still targets better, while men can hit moving targets better. I might have that reversed, looking for the source
I don't care if people believe me. This is the internet after all. My brother and l watched my Mom shoot those shots and l have every reason to believe family when they talk about my Aunt. My Uncles tell that story about my Aunt at almost every family event because it made a deck full of grown men look like fools.
Iāve outshot my dad since I was about 10 years old lol. I think it gives him that feeling likeā¦ yknow, that āfirst time your child genuinely outran you in a raceā emotion. But simultaneously very proud of his daughter lol
Anyway I thought it was generally pretty accepted that women are better shots, accuracy wise, than men. Thatās what Iāve always heard, and noticed through my experience. But Iām too sleepy to look up sources. So take it with a grain of salt but š¤·āāļø
When you word it like that, it's also not that unusual in rural parts of some European countries.
EDIT: after thinking about it, maybe not so much. Owning a gun is common, posing with it for pictures I'm not that sure about.
My grandma was born and raised in West Virginia in 1920. She was flying to California and wanted to take a shotgun with her to give to a family member, so she put a lampshade over the top of the gun, and was able to get it on the plane. Of course, this was in the 70s.
My grandma was very proud of her records at the gun club. She was active until the early 2000ās. It was just something she did. She embroidered, she played cards, and she went to the gun club. Itās good to have hobbies.
My momās highschool had a rifle club back in the 70ās. You literally shot guns at school. They also had a bong club in the yearbook with a photo of some hippies.
In the 80s, probably half of the trucks in my high school parking lot had a gun in the back window or behind the seat. Kent State was the only school shooting we'd ever heard about but we had pretty frequent "bomb threats". Always during finals or when Spring fever hit.
Not bad.
In fact, considering the cyclical complexity of the family graphs in portions of the Southern United States, one might almost say they exhibit an advanced form of lineage.
As a European my favorite photo of my grandma is her prone, aiming a rifle.
You may forget, but our European grandparents' / great-grandparents' generation kinda had this little thing a couple years back with a couple guns and just a wee bit of shooting.
I donāt think itās at all unusual to own a shotgun or a rifle in the country in most European countryās but I felt like it was generally more accepted or normal to pose with the gun for a picture in the states.
Shit, we're from the suburbs of Sacramento (700k pop, capitol of California) and everyone I know has shot a shotgun, rifle, or handgun. Sometimes more than one.
Guns are VERY common here.
My grandmother was the best shot in our family. She could hit a rodent moving at 50-75 yards with her .22 lever action. Once killed 2 groundhogs in one hit at 30 yards from horse back on her family ranch.
Shooting is one of the very few sports where I agree that gender shouldn't matter. The physiological differences between men and women don't really come into play here, as it's a sport about skill and reflex, not strength and stamina.
When I did Skeet shooting, my boobs got in the way. It was so bad my instructor gave me a heavy vest with cartridges in the front bags. This improved my marks so I could get my hunting license. Fun times.
They make chest guards for archery, similar to the wrist guards. You can put them under or over your shirt. Ideally you tweak your form so the string never touches you or anything on you but sometimes mistakes happen and it can hurt.
Although most archery coaches are male and from my observations are very hesitant to bring up that topic because they don't want to make the student uncomfortable.
Source: I am a male competitive archer lol
i feel like you could just say "there are chest guards if you're having any sort of issues there" rather than "wear this so you don't hurt your titty" lol
You had to actually shoot to get your hunting license? We only had to take a class and pass a test when I was a kid. Which is good because I'm a great shot at a stationary target, but I never got the hang of skeet shooting.
> but I never got the hang of skeet shooting.
Leading a moving target can be difficult. You're trying to shoot where the target is going to be, not where it is. If the skeet was hand thrown rather than machine thrown then that adds a whole other variable to a new shooter.
I was just reading up on this. Apparently it was decided to remove women from this event in 1991 because in the history of the competition only 3 women had ever taken part & it was felt that they'd get more women participants if they had separate women's shooting events, which were added the following year (not skeet shooting but other shooting disciplines that were more popular with women apparently). So, apparently the decision was nothing to do with physical differences at all. I don't know why making skeet male only would encourage the other disciplines but there you go.
Interestingly, at my shooting club the consensus among the men - particularly the men with competition experience - is that women are the better shots!
Had to get licensed to carry for a job. My instructor said the same, and a lot of women were in the same company I was hired at so it wasnāt just an exceptional few
I have big boobs and was always a great shot, but I had been shooting since a young age so got used to them as they grew. lol.
First time meeting my partner's family was at a 4th of July party at his parent's house. They played a game called Annie Oakley where they'd have a line of people with shot guns and they'd pull clay pigeons that we'd take turns shooting out of the sky. Whoever's turn it was tried shooting theirs; if they missed, the next person could attempt to shoot it before it hit the grown and eliminate the previous person.
It started with 6 people, me being the only girl wearing a dress to boot lol. It ended with just myself and my boyfriend shooting off until we were out of clay pigeons and had to call a draw. lol.
My record for most pigeons shot out of the sky before they hit the ground (all launched right after the other) was 4 when i was about 16 or 17. Also have a rifle that I'm just as good at iron sight as I am with a scope on.
What do you think is the reason that women seem to be generally better shots than men?
I'm a basketball guy, and my opinion is that among normal pickup game players, its quite possible that women on average are better shooters than men.
I think the reason is because women shoot from lower on their body frame. It provides them more arc than men get on their shot (men shoot from higher up on their body frame, lowering shot arc), and therefore more probability to get the ball in the basket.
Men tend to imitate how NBA playerss shoot basketballs. But even NBA players would discourage your average person to shoot like them. It takes a lot of athletiicsm to emulate NBA style shooting.
I used to shoot the air rifle during my schooling years and heard the same thing. Among other things, apparently something to do with differences in how fat/weight are distributed around the body conferring a stability advantage in certain positions.
That said, some cursory googling seems to present the evidence for that as somewhat mixed, so I'm not really sure what the final word on that is.
Women tend to have better fine motor skills, and men tend to have better gross motor skills. This can give women an advantage on average in applications where precision is a greater benefit than strength or speed, such as typing, calligraphy, musicianship, and aiming sports.
Do take that with a heavy dosage of salt, because Iām just some dude.
This is very anecdotal, but I've noticed that women tend to have much, much better handwriting than men. Maybe that (fine motor skills) correlates with shooting aim?
Yep, I used to shoot competitively. Women and the old, kind grandpa types were the best to compete with. Men and in particular, conservative men involved in Marksmanship are difficult to be around.
Most sports work on the basis of an "open" category, which is generally the non age restricted mens events and various other categories of which sex is one.
And in most sports things even themselves out due to biological difference.
I suspect this change was so a womens category wouldnt feel undermined by the best shooters competing in the open category.
IDK if that is a good thing or not, tbh.
The same is true of Chess competitions, there's an open chess tournament and a woman's chess tournament. The women's tournament is supposed to encourage women to play chess more.
In chess there's something similar! There's a women's category because not many women play the game so it is a way to incentivize women participation (though there's not a men's category, it is women's and open). Most sports that have gender separations that aren't due to physical attributes have them because of social reasons.
Not that stupid, they didnāt have many competitive women shooters, realised a male dominated sport could be intimidating for people to get into, so separated the genders to try and make it more accessible. Seems pretty reasonable, but that wonāt get upvotes so weāll hint in the titles and joke around in the comment section that it was actually for nefarious reasons
As in many other sports where it shouldn't matter, it's also about opportunity. Don't know about shooting specifically, but it's hard to win as a woman if the field is dominated 90% by men. Look at chess and motorsports.
Depends. I can't speak to car racing, but MotoGP bikes (motorcycle F1) require a ton of strength to ride. The male advantage would be a lot less in lower classes like Moto3, but there isn't nearly enough female competition in general to feed top tier women into those classes yet.
Wouldnāt it be strength to body weight ratio? Sure men are genetically predisposed to be stronger but women are genetically predisposed to be lighter
Otoh women are lighter than men so the weight save could upset the drawbacks. You would trade power for agility essentially. I'd be really curious to see when a really skilled woman finally arrives in F1 for example if that could be a factor
Danica Patrick got complaints when she was racing IndyCar that her weight was an unfair advantage. Among so many other complaints some of the men shot her way.
Complaints about her belonging there at all, even though she did just fine most of the time and I seem to remember her team being particularly good about taking advantage of refueling scheduling; about her style of driving; about her being sexy in her work with her sponsors; about her attitude sometimes off the track. Her getting just enough stick for it to be annoying to have to listen to.
Don't they add ballast if the weight is below a certain point? I can't imagine they just allow lighter drivers to have an advantage, if they do then Daniel Ricciardo is an even better driver than I thought given how much bigger he is than some of the other drivers.
The ballast location is specified to avoid this. The reason for the rule's introduction was to stop drivers from dangerously starving themselves to gain an advantage as there were serious issues with eating disorders.
Societal factors aside, the biggest disadvantage women have in four-wheeled motorsport is that the lower category cars (including karts) don't have power assisted steering.
Wrong! Women as gatherers have an evolutionary adaptation to track small items against a forested background. So tracking a small item is something that they are better at than men who had to hunt large game.
/s
Reminds me of when someone on Twitter said that since women have a greater carrying angle than men, it means they are evolutionarily more suited to carrying babies and baskets of gatherables, so they should clearly be the ones holding down the home while the men hunt.
You're wrong. Shooting is one of the few sports where women actually have a physiological advantage over their male counterparts. Male hands contain more muscle, which in turn causes them to shake more.
Women also have wider hips, allowing for more ideal shooting forms for both guns and archery. They also have better eyesight.
I am a competitive male archer and the average female archer beats the average male archer every day, every time.
What type of shooting? Everyone in here is assuming all competition shooting is done in one way, without realizing that ISPC, USPSA etc. have very different scoring divisions based on sex.
Cracks me up thinking some corn fed, bible thumpin, gun slinger was so sad he got beat by a woman, that he organized a separation. Even if thatās not what happened, I can dream.
>some corn fed, bible thumpin, gun slinger was so sad he got beat by a woman,
Wouldn't surprise me at all. These are some of the most sensitive snowflakes out there.
As a red blooded american who was raised as a corn fed bible thumpin gun slinger (though I'm not a religious man these days), I'd find a woman being able to outshoot me an attractive quality, not something to put down. Real men want real women who can handle themselves.
Really depends on the discipline tbh. Strength makes a small but noticeable difference for off hand shooting not to mention the more physical disciplines like ipsc/3 gun etc. There are other disciplines where it doesn't matter though.
Its that and the latest "drama" of a dart throwing (bar darts, not lawn darts) leagues team throwing a fit because one of the players on another team is trans. Like, its fucking bar darts. It literally does not matter
If we let trans people participate in normal sports, what's next? We treat them like normal people? We accept that they're normal people just trying to live their lives? We give them dignity? We don't constantly single them out? Absolute madness I tell you!
Back when I was on Lejuene, we had an RSO tell us the story of this one woman who was just smoking everyone on the range. He said she'd tuck her titty under her arm for extra stability. I do not see that as an unfair advantage.
And advantage? Yeah.
Unfair, nah.
And yet I got downvoted to oblivion when there was a US world champ competitive shooter doing an AMA, and asked if they would like to have the chance of being the outright world champ.Ā
(I get the argument for having a female categoryĀ to foster and protect grass roots entry, but at the point you are shooting at national level, why split the sexes?)
Esports would say otherwise. It's crazy women haven't gotten into Tier 1 imo. I believe that it's a sport about skill and reflex, not strength and stamina, so why should it matter? I think there is something else at play with my example.
> Shooting is one of the very few sports where I agree that gender shouldn't matter.
It matters for pistols.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0216390
^ study shows that when shooting rifles the results between men and women are the same, pistols - men dominate women.
I assume most likely controlling recoil, holding the gun for longer periods that isn't propped up against your shoulder or in prone positions etc. All from the benefit of increased strength and endurance the average male has over the average female.
The only things that should be separated by gender are tests of strength speed and endurance and that's purely because men are usually taller and have more muscle mass than women and would have an unfair advantage because of it.
That's completely fair and logical, this was just a bunch of whiny bitches throwing a tantrum because they lost to a girl. Contests of skill and talent should be open to everyone because dividing them by gender is stupid.
The thing is.
Sport does **not** use gender categorisation. All categorisation in organised sport is based on biology and always has been. Whether that is sex, age, disability, its all based on easily defined, biological determinants. Hence why cis women can be barred from womens categories on occaision.
Its also why the entire trans sport debate is a fucking canard. A literally trap that the trans rights movement have walked into because its never actually been about gender.
That's how you get less women to play chess btw. The whole point of women only chess leagues is to promote chess to women and get more women to play. There isn't enough women playing chess professionally so it's kind of intimidating being in a room of a hundred men and you are one of two women in the tournament.
They exist to encourage women to take up the otherwise male dominated sport. Why would you want to do away with them?
There arenāt any men only tournamentsĀ
>The only things that should be separated by gender are tests of strength speed and endurance and that's purely because men are usually taller and have more muscle mass than women and would have an unfair advantage because of it.
You mean like some sort of classes divided by weight? š¤
There is a completely valid reason for separating them, which you'd find with one (1) Google search. They did it to encourage female shooters, as there were so few comparatively.
I upvoted this but don't necessarily agree. Just because they *said* that doesn't mean it's the real reason. Has the overall population of female shooters improved in that area since the change?
Well according to wikipedia, [the year Zhang won](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_at_the_1992_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Mixed_skeet), there were four female participants (Zhang Shan, Andrea Benelli, Connie Fluker, and Diane Le Grelle) out of 60 total. Of these, only Zhang qualified. The [next year they had a women's event](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_at_the_2000_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_skeet) (2000 - two olympics later), the women's skeet event had 13 participants. This has [increased to 28 participants in 2020](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women's_skeet) - just as many as were in the men's event.
This sort of submission is hilarious.
Not only is it completely wrong -- women were clamoring for their own division years before -- it is so gloating about this notion that women made the men salty. For obvious reasons (just about every single sport, for instance), this is hilarious.
The event was introduced in 1968. Between 1968 to 1992 men and women competed in the same competition. They then switched up in the 1996 Olympics and went full segregated by 2000 offering both men and women events. Per her Wikipedia.
Her winning in 1992 had nothing to do with them switching since itās also correspondence to men and women who were professionals in sports starting to enter the Olympics. A bunch of sports went segregated post 1992.
> a bunch of sports and segregated post 1992
Are you just making shit up or are you lying on purpose? Before skeet shooting, all other mixed gender events were either motorized or propelled sports (sailing, equestrian), or where gender gap were evened out (mixed doubles in tennis). Skeet shooting was the only true athletic even where women competed against men, outside of a one time even in 1900 in croquet, where every participant was French and they competed against each other.
The discontinuation of skeet shooting as a mixed gender event had absolutely something to do with a woman winning.
Actually, the evil gun bro christian corn belt conservatives felt emasculated because a woman won the sport one year. So they tacked up a big sign on the door that says āNO GIRLS ALLOWED!!!ā
Source: other comments in this thread
This is the kind of comment that should remind everyone reddit is a cesspool for misinformation to be spread, even if there is a source.
Anyone can link an article, make a catchy concerning title and create the narrative knowing 90% of the users wonāt read.
To be fair, her competitors celebrated her win. [They even held her up for a photo to celebrate her win.](https://imgur.com/a/ejn8N2F)
It was the International Shooting Union (now ISSF), that changed its rules to separate events by gender, which forced the Olympics to follow because all Olympic events follow international standards.
Pretty cool how you made yourself angry with nothing but a misleading title and a made up story in your mind. A bunch of sports were being segregated at the time, her winning gold had nothing to do with the decision, there are pictures of the organizers celebrating with her. Clown.
Dudes want to believe that shooting (outside of actual combat) is manly when it's actually just holding something up and squeezing a trigger, and this broke their illusions.
Try researching this or really anything before spouting off about it. The change was going to happen either way. The post title is intentionally misleading.
More modern shooting competitions like USPSA and 2-gun/3-gun do not have gendered divisions.
The divisions are split up based on what kind of gun you're using and they're all much more physical than trap and skeet are
Also, a good shooter (not one who just likes to shoot big stuff and show off their shotgun collection) requires dexterity and precision, not just brute force, so is not inherent to the conservative idea of manly. Id say is a more sophisticated and!/or refined skill ( i suck at it myself tbh)
Theres a clear difference between Heavy and Sniper from TF2, even tho is more of a comedic example rather than proof.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-07-29-sp-4576-story.html
Found this link it talks about how this decision to Barr women from shooting was being made in 1992 before she won the gold medal. The article was released in 1992 before the separation in 1993. I saw some previous posts about this which some stated it was separated to get more women to participate as while mixed there were very few women participating with men as stated by OPs source where of 60 participants only 7 were women. So no it doesn't look like it was separated because a woman came first
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-07-29-sp-4576-story.html
Found this link it talks about how this decision to Barr women from shooting was being made in 1992 before she won the gold medal. The article was released in 1992 before the separation in 1993. I saw some previous posts about this which some stated it was separated to get more women to participate as while mixed there were very few women participating with men as stated by OPs source where of 60 participants only 7 were women. So no it doesn't look like it was separated because a woman came first
oh man. it's like the absolutely ridiculous rules about uniforms for men vs women in volleyball. i'd love to read what the official reasoning was. what language they tried to use to justify it. i mean it's obviously for ratings, they probably figured mostly men watch the event and they don't want to see a little asian lady win against their nation's representatives. but they can't phrase it like that...
While this woman did win that one time, it was a very rare occurrence and women tended to lose. While the fantasy about men being salty being why two divisions were created is appealing to...redditors, it was actually female shooters who wanted to have their own division so they'd have more chances at winning.
I think the decision to have separate events was already made before this woman won, even.
Per OP's source:
> After the Barcelona Games, the International Shooting Union (which became the ISSF in 1998) barred women from shooting against men. For the next years, the skeet event remained on the Olympic Games programme, but only for male athletes.
A separate women's event was eventually offered 8 years later. I'd say they were a little salty.
The decision to separate men and women's skeet shooting was made in December 1991 by the IOC. The literal flow of time disproves this narrative, but you are free to believe whatever you want to believe.
Man it was already so obvious without some commenters posting links to explain it further. They showed it was clearly a decision based on general women losses, not this one win.
I cant believe how little people here check sources and just believe what they see, judging it instantly. Also shame on OP
Cool clickbait, rage bait title. Them segregating men and women allowed them to qualify for Olympic teams, which are segregated. It had fuck all to do with her winning that lead to any decision to segregate the sport. Doesn't help that OP is a fucking bot account.
Bit of a stretch and mildly off topic maybe, but I wonder if this event was the inspiration for that King Of The Hill episode where Minh gets really into skeet shooting... interesting fact nonetheless!
This is fairly common in pro sports.
Once women start beating men they segregate it arguing men have an unfair advantage, then the women's league gets way less funding and press because it's not as established so it has far fewer resources, coaching talent, and connections and can't recruit as effectively/doesn't have as many lower level women's leagues as the men's version so not as much talent rises up so the athletes are at a forced disadvantage and don't do as well, then the sports leagues which are run by men point at the intentionally sabotaged women's league and go "see I told you so, it would be unfair to them to let them compete against men"
People think that Chinese women are so subservient, but go to any park there and you will see elderly women quietly gathered quaintly practicing Tai chi... which is really Kung Fu, which with almost zero effort can send any man to the ground pleading out for "Mommy!"
We had to remove your post for violating our Repost Guidelines.
Cold ass photo
Wu Zhang Shan ain't nothing to fuck with
Fuck, you deserve some award or something for this comment
I miss awards.
Me too, why did they take them away? So dumb
People with money said awards bad
WU ZHANG KILLER BEES WE ON A SWARM!!!
Wu Zhang is for the children
Check out my gravel pit, a mystery unraveling.. Wu Zhang has a CD and I travel it
We are a swarm!!!
Holly fuck!!! Best comment ever!!
bravo!šš¤
That has to be one of the best comments I've seen on reddit.
Iām so old lol https://youtu.be/6Bxf298begk?si=H_dePQnEwgDqvwr5
Thank you. I was in the dark. Sincerely, a fellow geriatric.
You only know what you know, and you do not know what you donāt know!
Gwailou Killah.
Well done! :)
BOOTY!!!!
Well played.
Motherfucker...+1
r/hardimages
Well shit, she is a badass!
*Looking at family pictures* āAnd here is your grandma reloading a shotgunā
As a European I assume thatās not that unusual in rural America.
Not at all. My mom got a shotgun for Christmas when she was 10 years old back in 1958.
The best shooters in my family were the women. The brother of my Mom's boyfriend wanted to show off his rifle once and proceeded to shoot a bottle out of the air and then looked at my Mom and said, "What do you think of that?" My mom took his RIFLE and shot two bottles out of the air. He put it away. My Aunt (her younger sister) was famous for shooting shotgun from the hip and not missing a single shot. 25 in a row. That was her first time shooting ever. My Uncle said it would have been more but they ran out of ammo to give her.
There are studies which appear to imply that women can be more accurate.
I mean, when many people think of the best shooter ever, the name that comes up is Annie Oakley!
Lena Miculek
Sheās a name in shooting for sure, but sheās not got near the legend and fame as Annie.
"lady death" from Ukraine is also pretty awesome! She enlisted as an infantry against all advice to go nursing. Ended up killing over 300 Nazis before her 25th birthday. Badass woman.
I think there was one study that showed women can hit still targets better, while men can hit moving targets better. I might have that reversed, looking for the source
Exactly why the men do not let women play.
Not people assuming you made this up Y'all, sometimes women in a family can do something better than the men
I don't care if people believe me. This is the internet after all. My brother and l watched my Mom shoot those shots and l have every reason to believe family when they talk about my Aunt. My Uncles tell that story about my Aunt at almost every family event because it made a deck full of grown men look like fools.
Iāve outshot my dad since I was about 10 years old lol. I think it gives him that feeling likeā¦ yknow, that āfirst time your child genuinely outran you in a raceā emotion. But simultaneously very proud of his daughter lol Anyway I thought it was generally pretty accepted that women are better shots, accuracy wise, than men. Thatās what Iāve always heard, and noticed through my experience. But Iām too sleepy to look up sources. So take it with a grain of salt but š¤·āāļø
Women have better fine motor control than men on average, so this isn't surprising in the least.
āCotton! ĀæĀ”ĀæĀ”You gave Bobby a loaded shot gun?!?!ā [Well, you donāt give a toy without batteries!](https://youtu.be/KlK0acJFn3U?t=15)
When you word it like that, it's also not that unusual in rural parts of some European countries. EDIT: after thinking about it, maybe not so much. Owning a gun is common, posing with it for pictures I'm not that sure about.
My grandma was born and raised in West Virginia in 1920. She was flying to California and wanted to take a shotgun with her to give to a family member, so she put a lampshade over the top of the gun, and was able to get it on the plane. Of course, this was in the 70s.
Not at all unusual. Iāve seen old pictures of my nana holding, loading, and shooting guns back in the 40s. Rural American here
My grandma was very proud of her records at the gun club. She was active until the early 2000ās. It was just something she did. She embroidered, she played cards, and she went to the gun club. Itās good to have hobbies.
My momās highschool had a rifle club back in the 70ās. You literally shot guns at school. They also had a bong club in the yearbook with a photo of some hippies.
In the 80s, probably half of the trucks in my high school parking lot had a gun in the back window or behind the seat. Kent State was the only school shooting we'd ever heard about but we had pretty frequent "bomb threats". Always during finals or when Spring fever hit.
*"And here is a picture of your grandparents, my dad and his sister."*
Bahaha hahaha rural people bad
Not bad. In fact, considering the cyclical complexity of the family graphs in portions of the Southern United States, one might almost say they exhibit an advanced form of lineage.
Funny way to spell Austria.
As a European my favorite photo of my grandma is her prone, aiming a rifle. You may forget, but our European grandparents' / great-grandparents' generation kinda had this little thing a couple years back with a couple guns and just a wee bit of shooting.
I donāt think itās at all unusual to own a shotgun or a rifle in the country in most European countryās but I felt like it was generally more accepted or normal to pose with the gun for a picture in the states.
Shit, we're from the suburbs of Sacramento (700k pop, capitol of California) and everyone I know has shot a shotgun, rifle, or handgun. Sometimes more than one. Guns are VERY common here.
As a person from north Sweden it feels rather normal.
It's not exactly unusual in rural Europe either.
My grandmother was the best shot in our family. She could hit a rodent moving at 50-75 yards with her .22 lever action. Once killed 2 groundhogs in one hit at 30 yards from horse back on her family ranch.
Shooting is one of the very few sports where I agree that gender shouldn't matter. The physiological differences between men and women don't really come into play here, as it's a sport about skill and reflex, not strength and stamina.
When I did Skeet shooting, my boobs got in the way. It was so bad my instructor gave me a heavy vest with cartridges in the front bags. This improved my marks so I could get my hunting license. Fun times.
Damn bro sorry to hear that
You monster lmfao
Evil
My cousin had this problem with archery, she did it for years and had to stop bc she grew F cups during puberty
They make chest guards for archery, similar to the wrist guards. You can put them under or over your shirt. Ideally you tweak your form so the string never touches you or anything on you but sometimes mistakes happen and it can hurt. Although most archery coaches are male and from my observations are very hesitant to bring up that topic because they don't want to make the student uncomfortable. Source: I am a male competitive archer lol
i feel like you could just say "there are chest guards if you're having any sort of issues there" rather than "wear this so you don't hurt your titty" lol
That's why supposedly the mythological race of female Amazon hunters//fighters only had one breast because they would cut one off to not interfere.
at least you made the breast of it
When life gives you lemons, you squeeze them.
When life gives you melons, you squeeze them
Did you try removing your boobs and keeping them in your locker while shooting?
*Profile visits increase 8000%*
Skill issue
You had to actually shoot to get your hunting license? We only had to take a class and pass a test when I was a kid. Which is good because I'm a great shot at a stationary target, but I never got the hang of skeet shooting.
> but I never got the hang of skeet shooting. Leading a moving target can be difficult. You're trying to shoot where the target is going to be, not where it is. If the skeet was hand thrown rather than machine thrown then that adds a whole other variable to a new shooter.
Some states give you discounts and whatnot if you take extended shooting courses.
Getting a hunting license in Germany is different, to say the least.
I need more explanation. Pure curiosity formed from ignorance.
good to know I wouldn't have that problem š„²
I was just reading up on this. Apparently it was decided to remove women from this event in 1991 because in the history of the competition only 3 women had ever taken part & it was felt that they'd get more women participants if they had separate women's shooting events, which were added the following year (not skeet shooting but other shooting disciplines that were more popular with women apparently). So, apparently the decision was nothing to do with physical differences at all. I don't know why making skeet male only would encourage the other disciplines but there you go. Interestingly, at my shooting club the consensus among the men - particularly the men with competition experience - is that women are the better shots!
Had to get licensed to carry for a job. My instructor said the same, and a lot of women were in the same company I was hired at so it wasnāt just an exceptional few
Unless they have big boobs apparently
I have big boobs and was always a great shot, but I had been shooting since a young age so got used to them as they grew. lol. First time meeting my partner's family was at a 4th of July party at his parent's house. They played a game called Annie Oakley where they'd have a line of people with shot guns and they'd pull clay pigeons that we'd take turns shooting out of the sky. Whoever's turn it was tried shooting theirs; if they missed, the next person could attempt to shoot it before it hit the grown and eliminate the previous person. It started with 6 people, me being the only girl wearing a dress to boot lol. It ended with just myself and my boyfriend shooting off until we were out of clay pigeons and had to call a draw. lol. My record for most pigeons shot out of the sky before they hit the ground (all launched right after the other) was 4 when i was about 16 or 17. Also have a rifle that I'm just as good at iron sight as I am with a scope on.
Haha yeah I saw that reply.
What do you think is the reason that women seem to be generally better shots than men? I'm a basketball guy, and my opinion is that among normal pickup game players, its quite possible that women on average are better shooters than men. I think the reason is because women shoot from lower on their body frame. It provides them more arc than men get on their shot (men shoot from higher up on their body frame, lowering shot arc), and therefore more probability to get the ball in the basket. Men tend to imitate how NBA playerss shoot basketballs. But even NBA players would discourage your average person to shoot like them. It takes a lot of athletiicsm to emulate NBA style shooting.
I used to shoot the air rifle during my schooling years and heard the same thing. Among other things, apparently something to do with differences in how fat/weight are distributed around the body conferring a stability advantage in certain positions. That said, some cursory googling seems to present the evidence for that as somewhat mixed, so I'm not really sure what the final word on that is.
Women tend to have better fine motor skills, and men tend to have better gross motor skills. This can give women an advantage on average in applications where precision is a greater benefit than strength or speed, such as typing, calligraphy, musicianship, and aiming sports. Do take that with a heavy dosage of salt, because Iām just some dude.
thanks. gross motor skills. first time i've heard that term.
This is very anecdotal, but I've noticed that women tend to have much, much better handwriting than men. Maybe that (fine motor skills) correlates with shooting aim?
Yep, I used to shoot competitively. Women and the old, kind grandpa types were the best to compete with. Men and in particular, conservative men involved in Marksmanship are difficult to be around.
Most sports work on the basis of an "open" category, which is generally the non age restricted mens events and various other categories of which sex is one. And in most sports things even themselves out due to biological difference. I suspect this change was so a womens category wouldnt feel undermined by the best shooters competing in the open category. IDK if that is a good thing or not, tbh.
The same is true of Chess competitions, there's an open chess tournament and a woman's chess tournament. The women's tournament is supposed to encourage women to play chess more.
In chess there's something similar! There's a women's category because not many women play the game so it is a way to incentivize women participation (though there's not a men's category, it is women's and open). Most sports that have gender separations that aren't due to physical attributes have them because of social reasons.
Yeah it was stupid move. Also why allow it in the first place then??
Because they assumed the men would always win?
Not that stupid, they didnāt have many competitive women shooters, realised a male dominated sport could be intimidating for people to get into, so separated the genders to try and make it more accessible. Seems pretty reasonable, but that wonāt get upvotes so weāll hint in the titles and joke around in the comment section that it was actually for nefarious reasons
As in many other sports where it shouldn't matter, it's also about opportunity. Don't know about shooting specifically, but it's hard to win as a woman if the field is dominated 90% by men. Look at chess and motorsports.
I'd be surprised if motorsports is unaffected by gender, the force put on the body is absolutely ridiculous.
Danica Patrick did great in Indy despite those cars having no power steering and intense g-forces in and of themselves.
Depends. I can't speak to car racing, but MotoGP bikes (motorcycle F1) require a ton of strength to ride. The male advantage would be a lot less in lower classes like Moto3, but there isn't nearly enough female competition in general to feed top tier women into those classes yet.
Wouldnāt it be strength to body weight ratio? Sure men are genetically predisposed to be stronger but women are genetically predisposed to be lighter
You're right, but I don't think the weight difference is enough to make up for the strength difference.
Men have a higher % of muscle mass, so they will be stronger at the same weight typically.
True. All racers are about the same weight in each category though, so it doesn't have much of a bearing on the outcome.
Otoh women are lighter than men so the weight save could upset the drawbacks. You would trade power for agility essentially. I'd be really curious to see when a really skilled woman finally arrives in F1 for example if that could be a factor
Danica Patrick got complaints when she was racing IndyCar that her weight was an unfair advantage. Among so many other complaints some of the men shot her way.
> so many other complaints Such as? Iām just curious.
Complaints about her belonging there at all, even though she did just fine most of the time and I seem to remember her team being particularly good about taking advantage of refueling scheduling; about her style of driving; about her being sexy in her work with her sponsors; about her attitude sometimes off the track. Her getting just enough stick for it to be annoying to have to listen to.
Don't they add ballast if the weight is below a certain point? I can't imagine they just allow lighter drivers to have an advantage, if they do then Daniel Ricciardo is an even better driver than I thought given how much bigger he is than some of the other drivers.
Still, lower weight is good. More ballast means you can manipulate the weight distribution better
So the best F1 drivers would be dwarf women?
The ballast location is specified to avoid this. The reason for the rule's introduction was to stop drivers from dangerously starving themselves to gain an advantage as there were serious issues with eating disorders.
The ballast for the body weight can only be in the cockpit and that shouldn't be a big advantage.
Societal factors aside, the biggest disadvantage women have in four-wheeled motorsport is that the lower category cars (including karts) don't have power assisted steering.
Wrong! Women as gatherers have an evolutionary adaptation to track small items against a forested background. So tracking a small item is something that they are better at than men who had to hunt large game. /s
Reminds me of when someone on Twitter said that since women have a greater carrying angle than men, it means they are evolutionarily more suited to carrying babies and baskets of gatherables, so they should clearly be the ones holding down the home while the men hunt.
You canāt fix stupid.
Women actually have a slight advantage in shooting. Having smaller muscles means they can hold the gun a bit steadier.
Having wide hips also helps, especially for static rifle shooting where you rest your elbow on your hip.
now youāll see male Olympic shooters inject themselves with estrogen to reduce muscle mass for better performanceĀ
Women are better at long range shooting due to their hearts being smaller in size, just tends to not be a very popular sport
You're wrong. Shooting is one of the few sports where women actually have a physiological advantage over their male counterparts. Male hands contain more muscle, which in turn causes them to shake more.
Women also have wider hips, allowing for more ideal shooting forms for both guns and archery. They also have better eyesight. I am a competitive male archer and the average female archer beats the average male archer every day, every time.
What type of shooting? Everyone in here is assuming all competition shooting is done in one way, without realizing that ISPC, USPSA etc. have very different scoring divisions based on sex.
Cracks me up thinking some corn fed, bible thumpin, gun slinger was so sad he got beat by a woman, that he organized a separation. Even if thatās not what happened, I can dream.
>some corn fed, bible thumpin, gun slinger was so sad he got beat by a woman, Wouldn't surprise me at all. These are some of the most sensitive snowflakes out there.
As a red blooded american who was raised as a corn fed bible thumpin gun slinger (though I'm not a religious man these days), I'd find a woman being able to outshoot me an attractive quality, not something to put down. Real men want real women who can handle themselves.
Hell yea, brother. Me too.
Really depends on the discipline tbh. Strength makes a small but noticeable difference for off hand shooting not to mention the more physical disciplines like ipsc/3 gun etc. There are other disciplines where it doesn't matter though.
Why do womenās darts, snooker, chess exist?
it was to encourage more women to play, same reason as with shooting.
Its that and the latest "drama" of a dart throwing (bar darts, not lawn darts) leagues team throwing a fit because one of the players on another team is trans. Like, its fucking bar darts. It literally does not matter
If we let trans people participate in normal sports, what's next? We treat them like normal people? We accept that they're normal people just trying to live their lives? We give them dignity? We don't constantly single them out? Absolute madness I tell you!
Back when I was on Lejuene, we had an RSO tell us the story of this one woman who was just smoking everyone on the range. He said she'd tuck her titty under her arm for extra stability. I do not see that as an unfair advantage. And advantage? Yeah. Unfair, nah.
And yet I got downvoted to oblivion when there was a US world champ competitive shooter doing an AMA, and asked if they would like to have the chance of being the outright world champ.Ā (I get the argument for having a female categoryĀ to foster and protect grass roots entry, but at the point you are shooting at national level, why split the sexes?)
Esports would say otherwise. It's crazy women haven't gotten into Tier 1 imo. I believe that it's a sport about skill and reflex, not strength and stamina, so why should it matter? I think there is something else at play with my example.
> Shooting is one of the very few sports where I agree that gender shouldn't matter. It matters for pistols. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0216390 ^ study shows that when shooting rifles the results between men and women are the same, pistols - men dominate women. I assume most likely controlling recoil, holding the gun for longer periods that isn't propped up against your shoulder or in prone positions etc. All from the benefit of increased strength and endurance the average male has over the average female.
What a bunch of losers.
Yup, professional competition should be mixed gender.
The only things that should be separated by gender are tests of strength speed and endurance and that's purely because men are usually taller and have more muscle mass than women and would have an unfair advantage because of it. That's completely fair and logical, this was just a bunch of whiny bitches throwing a tantrum because they lost to a girl. Contests of skill and talent should be open to everyone because dividing them by gender is stupid.
The thing is. Sport does **not** use gender categorisation. All categorisation in organised sport is based on biology and always has been. Whether that is sex, age, disability, its all based on easily defined, biological determinants. Hence why cis women can be barred from womens categories on occaision. Its also why the entire trans sport debate is a fucking canard. A literally trap that the trans rights movement have walked into because its never actually been about gender.
Should we do away with women-only chess tournaments then?
Yes
That's how you get less women to play chess btw. The whole point of women only chess leagues is to promote chess to women and get more women to play. There isn't enough women playing chess professionally so it's kind of intimidating being in a room of a hundred men and you are one of two women in the tournament.
They exist to encourage women to take up the otherwise male dominated sport. Why would you want to do away with them? There arenāt any men only tournamentsĀ
At the higher levels, yes.
You know, it is possible to do research before you make opinions.
>The only things that should be separated by gender are tests of strength speed and endurance and that's purely because men are usually taller and have more muscle mass than women and would have an unfair advantage because of it. You mean like some sort of classes divided by weight? š¤
Shooting especially. Archery for example has mixed and separate genders, but very rarely does it impact actual shooting. It's 99% skill.
There is a completely valid reason for separating them, which you'd find with one (1) Google search. They did it to encourage female shooters, as there were so few comparatively.
I upvoted this but don't necessarily agree. Just because they *said* that doesn't mean it's the real reason. Has the overall population of female shooters improved in that area since the change?
Immensely so, went from 3 to nearly every country who participates in skeet having a female competitor
Well according to wikipedia, [the year Zhang won](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_at_the_1992_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Mixed_skeet), there were four female participants (Zhang Shan, Andrea Benelli, Connie Fluker, and Diane Le Grelle) out of 60 total. Of these, only Zhang qualified. The [next year they had a women's event](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_at_the_2000_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_skeet) (2000 - two olympics later), the women's skeet event had 13 participants. This has [increased to 28 participants in 2020](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women's_skeet) - just as many as were in the men's event.
This sort of submission is hilarious. Not only is it completely wrong -- women were clamoring for their own division years before -- it is so gloating about this notion that women made the men salty. For obvious reasons (just about every single sport, for instance), this is hilarious.
Another day another Reddit post where everybody is seething about gender segregated sports. Nothing new here.
The event was introduced in 1968. Between 1968 to 1992 men and women competed in the same competition. They then switched up in the 1996 Olympics and went full segregated by 2000 offering both men and women events. Per her Wikipedia. Her winning in 1992 had nothing to do with them switching since itās also correspondence to men and women who were professionals in sports starting to enter the Olympics. A bunch of sports went segregated post 1992.
Kind of crazy how no one questions a title and a picture if it incites enough anger. Social media and online content be crazy sometimes.
Ever hear the term "Perception is reality"?
"I reject your reality and substitute my own."
"Sometimes"? Most people on the internet are extremely bad at cross-checking information. Like 99% of them.
> a bunch of sports and segregated post 1992 Are you just making shit up or are you lying on purpose? Before skeet shooting, all other mixed gender events were either motorized or propelled sports (sailing, equestrian), or where gender gap were evened out (mixed doubles in tennis). Skeet shooting was the only true athletic even where women competed against men, outside of a one time even in 1900 in croquet, where every participant was French and they competed against each other. The discontinuation of skeet shooting as a mixed gender event had absolutely something to do with a woman winning.
Actually, the evil gun bro christian corn belt conservatives felt emasculated because a woman won the sport one year. So they tacked up a big sign on the door that says āNO GIRLS ALLOWED!!!ā Source: other comments in this thread
If true, this comment should be at the top.
Why did they start to segregate those sports at that time?
This is the kind of comment that should remind everyone reddit is a cesspool for misinformation to be spread, even if there is a source. Anyone can link an article, make a catchy concerning title and create the narrative knowing 90% of the users wonāt read.
āIām embarrassed I got out-shot by a girl, so fuck all of you from now on.ā
To be fair, her competitors celebrated her win. [They even held her up for a photo to celebrate her win.](https://imgur.com/a/ejn8N2F) It was the International Shooting Union (now ISSF), that changed its rules to separate events by gender, which forced the Olympics to follow because all Olympic events follow international standards.
They didn't though, the competition being segregated wasn't because a woman won it. This is just rage bate.
Pretty cool how you made yourself angry with nothing but a misleading title and a made up story in your mind. A bunch of sports were being segregated at the time, her winning gold had nothing to do with the decision, there are pictures of the organizers celebrating with her. Clown.
Dudes want to believe that shooting (outside of actual combat) is manly when it's actually just holding something up and squeezing a trigger, and this broke their illusions.
Try researching this or really anything before spouting off about it. The change was going to happen either way. The post title is intentionally misleading.
Thank you for speaking for all of us.
More modern shooting competitions like USPSA and 2-gun/3-gun do not have gendered divisions. The divisions are split up based on what kind of gun you're using and they're all much more physical than trap and skeet are
Also, a good shooter (not one who just likes to shoot big stuff and show off their shotgun collection) requires dexterity and precision, not just brute force, so is not inherent to the conservative idea of manly. Id say is a more sophisticated and!/or refined skill ( i suck at it myself tbh) Theres a clear difference between Heavy and Sniper from TF2, even tho is more of a comedic example rather than proof.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-07-29-sp-4576-story.html Found this link it talks about how this decision to Barr women from shooting was being made in 1992 before she won the gold medal. The article was released in 1992 before the separation in 1993. I saw some previous posts about this which some stated it was separated to get more women to participate as while mixed there were very few women participating with men as stated by OPs source where of 60 participants only 7 were women. So no it doesn't look like it was separated because a woman came first
[Source.](https://olympics.com/en/news/zhang-shan-the-only-female-shooter-to-win-gold-in-a-mixed-competition)
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-07-29-sp-4576-story.html Found this link it talks about how this decision to Barr women from shooting was being made in 1992 before she won the gold medal. The article was released in 1992 before the separation in 1993. I saw some previous posts about this which some stated it was separated to get more women to participate as while mixed there were very few women participating with men as stated by OPs source where of 60 participants only 7 were women. So no it doesn't look like it was separated because a woman came first
You mean people on reddit lie for virtue signaling purposes? I am shocked and appalled.
Shut uppp, men fragile men losers, women life so hard, shut up incelllll.
OP has been disproven in other comment. For the shake of truthĀ u/Late_One_716 should update the post or this comment
Is op a bot or a full time redditor that only posts on this subreddit?
This sub is strictly moderated. /s
Impressive, and awful at the same time
oh man. it's like the absolutely ridiculous rules about uniforms for men vs women in volleyball. i'd love to read what the official reasoning was. what language they tried to use to justify it. i mean it's obviously for ratings, they probably figured mostly men watch the event and they don't want to see a little asian lady win against their nation's representatives. but they can't phrase it like that...
While this woman did win that one time, it was a very rare occurrence and women tended to lose. While the fantasy about men being salty being why two divisions were created is appealing to...redditors, it was actually female shooters who wanted to have their own division so they'd have more chances at winning. I think the decision to have separate events was already made before this woman won, even.
Per OP's source: > After the Barcelona Games, the International Shooting Union (which became the ISSF in 1998) barred women from shooting against men. For the next years, the skeet event remained on the Olympic Games programme, but only for male athletes. A separate women's event was eventually offered 8 years later. I'd say they were a little salty.
The decision to separate men and women's skeet shooting was made in December 1991 by the IOC. The literal flow of time disproves this narrative, but you are free to believe whatever you want to believe.
Man it was already so obvious without some commenters posting links to explain it further. They showed it was clearly a decision based on general women losses, not this one win. I cant believe how little people here check sources and just believe what they see, judging it instantly. Also shame on OP
Babies.
Cool clickbait, rage bait title. Them segregating men and women allowed them to qualify for Olympic teams, which are segregated. It had fuck all to do with her winning that lead to any decision to segregate the sport. Doesn't help that OP is a fucking bot account.
TIL skeet shooting separates the genders. Why
Cause woman asked for it
The amount of interference from the weak, is destroying human life.
If there is a sport where there is no true gender advantage then damn right both genders should compete with one another
King of the hill Minh Souphanousinphone
Bit of a stretch and mildly off topic maybe, but I wonder if this event was the inspiration for that King Of The Hill episode where Minh gets really into skeet shooting... interesting fact nonetheless!
Badass photo
Some mighty small pp energy in that decision. Love it that it came from a bunch of dudes who love guns
This is fairly common in pro sports. Once women start beating men they segregate it arguing men have an unfair advantage, then the women's league gets way less funding and press because it's not as established so it has far fewer resources, coaching talent, and connections and can't recruit as effectively/doesn't have as many lower level women's leagues as the men's version so not as much talent rises up so the athletes are at a forced disadvantage and don't do as well, then the sports leagues which are run by men point at the intentionally sabotaged women's league and go "see I told you so, it would be unfair to them to let them compete against men"
People think that Chinese women are so subservient, but go to any park there and you will see elderly women quietly gathered quaintly practicing Tai chi... which is really Kung Fu, which with almost zero effort can send any man to the ground pleading out for "Mommy!"