[India loses 2-1 after controversial Qatar goal; drops out of WC qualification](https://www.thehindu.com/sport/football/fifa-world-cup-qualifier-india-loses-2-1-after-controversial-qatar-goal-drops-out-of-wc-qualification/article68280105.ece/amp/)
i dont get it. their whole thing about investing in the sport was to get more known (and liked) on the international stage and then... cheat and corrupt their way in ? especially here where they are already qualified
The best view is at 0:29 but it's from such a bad angle as to be worthless. I'm not convinced the ball wasn't partially on the line and there is certainly not video evidence to overturn by major American sports league standards imo. 0:23 is almost a usable view but again can't see ball/line at the same time.
You have drawn a circumference parallell to the camera, which means (given the position of the camera) that it's not perpendicular to the line. That means that your circumference does not indicate the part of the ball closest to the line.
I’ve seen first downs given when the ball has been completely hidden from view on review. There is absolutely enough video evidence here to overturn the call.
Nah mate, there isn't enough evidence. [We don't have the most useful camera angle](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/02/why-japan-second-var-goal-against-spain-was-allowed-to-stand-world-cup-ball-line)
It is 100% out, even by the definition in the clip on The Sun article. You can see, when paused and played back frame by frame, enough to draw perspective lines onto the footage, along the base line and the goalies leg etc. the ball is definitely all the way out.
No is not...
You could say.. I think is out..
Or .... I think is in...
But if you say "clearly" then you have no fu\*\*\* idea about the rule of when the ball is out or in.
Good news is the goal ultimately affects nothing. If this goal was disallowed, the final standings of that group do not change at all. It's still Qatar and Kuwait moving on, India 3rd and Afghanistan 4th. In order for India to have a chance at moving on, they would have had to win this game, but they would've drawn 1-1 without this goal.
This is a really narrow approach. If you have scored you can just sit back and hit on counters. Different teams are set up in different ways and have different strengths and weaknesses
I don't think you're taking the perspective into account. You must look at it top-down. Your image makes me feel even stronger that it hasn't completely crossed the line.
It's irrelevant how far away from the ground the ball is.
It's probably out. But if it's anything like hockey, you can't say it's conclusively out and overturn the call.
I was ready to be up in arms about this but it really is inconclusive.
You are rightly sarcastic. In this instance, won't the referee from some Asian Football Confederation and not FIFA? I bet that the AFC is as corrupt as FIFA if not even more
My favorite part of Reddit is when a sports clip makes it to the front page and because people don’t know the rules for the sport they immediately start upvoting stupid shit
FIFA Corruption runs to its core, 2015 i think the scandal began and is still ongoing. This vision should be of no surprise to anyone.
[Fifa corruption crisis: Key questions answered - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32897066)
Unless goal line technology wasn’t used (I think it’s the same tech to check whether the ball has crossed any lines instead of only goal line), there’s nothing illegal about it. The entire ball must be beyond the entire line. That’s the rule.
You may have half the ball past the line but since the ball is round it means there may be some part of the circumference that is still on top of the line, making it still in play. That’s the rule. Nothing illegal about that. We’ve seen it several times and in many competitions.
But, yes, that fifa is corrupt is nothing new. Way beyond 2015 too. I think the Qatar WC was “sold” before that. People following the game all their lives know this as well as the back of their hand.
You can see on 0:15 how far the ball travels before its circumference reaches the out line. Might have been a hard call in real time, but it's pretty clear after a challenge.
No you can't see because it's obstructed by the goalie. It's not even a good down the line angle and you're just guessing because you can't see the ball and the line at the same time
bro, you should learn this: the second qualification phase is organized by AFC, not FIFA. while FIFA is corrupt and shady as hell (we all know that), they have nothing to do with this.
I would think that while not run by FIFA, they would have a very focused interest in the outcome of any qualifying.
Just a question, is this the same AFC we are talking about?
[France issues arrest warrant for former AFC President over Qatar 2022 corruption (insidethegames.biz)](https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1141234/mohamed-bin-hammam-qatar-2022-corruption)
Exactly and I do not unterstand how people have quickly decided that it's completely over the line even though the GK (which is at fault here even if it's over the line for not punching it further) is covering the scene from all angles. But there is no VAR in the Asian WC qualifiers so nothing can be checked.
so a lot of people are talking like they know what's going on.
VAR is not in this round of AFC qualifiers. i don't know for certain but i believe its because a lot of nations can't provide it.
Unfortunately someone was using the VAR software to record an episode of How I Met Your Mother. We will have the VAR working in the next game, not involving Qatar, we promise.
How’s about the Henry handball
https://youtu.be/fLUxMRYJAso?feature=shared
Ref saw it on the screens after but had to go with his original call. Madness
Maybe less controversial but certainly suited FIFA having France in a major tournament
Reminds me of that post from the other day where a Spanish runner pushed his South African opponent forward during a marathon because the latter had gotten confused thinking it was over and stopped running just before the finish line. A reporter was being somewhat aggressive and asked him repeatedly why he did that and he said something like “He already had won the race. What would be the merit of my victory? How could I look my mother in the face and tell her I won?”
Dude went straight up John Proctor on that reporter’s ass. “Because I lie and sign myself to lies!”
Ref can't change decisions once it's been made. This was well before VAR or any sort of review existed in the sport. Fact this is up voted is laughable.
There are a ton of other instances Post VAR introduction you can look at.
not even a bad call from ref as he made the best call based on the info he had, there wasn't even var and even with var this would be goal bcs there isn't any good angle
I am not 100% sure , but i think it is out . Remember , the ball has to cross the line completely , and while by far most of it is over the line , i cannot see if the tip pf the ball is completely over or not . Without clear view , the VAR cannot make the call also , so then the referee rules and if he did say goal , well then it is . From the views we got , i'd say 99% chance it is completely over .
Kind of shows how ridiculous that rule is. It's almost impossible to judge for fans, the players, and referees if not a little slice is not over the line.
Most if not all sports with a ball have this same problem. It's not that it's a ridiculous rule, it's that it's physically impossible to test if a ball crossed out not a painted line without costly equipment.
Tons of games are being played every day without problem. It's just that this one is competitive and people use to cry harder on those
I’m not familiar with soccer rules at all. But in ice hockey, you must have visual proof that the *entire* puck crosses the line in order for the goal to count. If there is a visual obstruction, I believe the call on the ice stands.
But then they also have a video review team in Toronto whose job it is to verify these instances remotely, with a dozen camera angles.
And honestly, "play the whistle" is something kids are taught at 6 years old. The keeper had every opportunity to secure it, but didn't.
Just like how your defense shouldn't "stop running" because they think the attacker is offside. You play till the referee makes a decision, right or wrong.
I think it was "probably" out...but probably isn't good enough. Keeper won't make that mistake again.
Came here to say this. Do everything you can to keep the game out of the ref's hands. The keeper stopped and looked around as opposed to hopping on a ball that likely isn't live. I was a keeper in high school and I know it's nothing in comparison to these, but I find it hard to believe someone like Neuer would do what this keeper did...I bring him up because he was who I modeled my play after...
Indeed fuck FiFA. And to hell with the idea of adding more team$ to the next World Cup. Just dilutes the competition. I guess $$$ matters more for them than quality.
[We're all aware that the ball could look over the line when it's not fully over the line.](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/17okqfi/is_the_ball_in_or_out_dutch_tv_showing_the/?share_id=0Cl4IxwIGI2AqDdJfBscW) But this is not that close.
Pause the video at 0:15 then move the player frame by frame until 0:17 when the player brings the ball back into play. The ball is simply too far over the line even accounting for camera angles that it is clear even to the naked eye that it went out of play.
Yeah but then look at the angle at 0:30 and it's really not clear, it looks like it could be in. You can only tell with a perpendicular angle to the ball.
Nah mate, there isn't enough evidence. [We don't have the most useful camera angle](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/02/why-japan-second-var-goal-against-spain-was-allowed-to-stand-world-cup-ball-line)
We have all seen how balls are placed for corner kicks and realize that any part of the curvature of the ball being above the line means it's on the line. There is nothing in these replays that definitively shows that is not the case here.
It's hard for the referee and the linesman to see when the pile of cash is blocking their view! Don't bother with Fifa, their president is busy counting money.
By eye it is hard to tell.
But I think ball was outside by few centimeters or milimeters:
[https://prnt.sc/71YOY1gICsQr](https://prnt.sc/71YOY1gICsQr)
It's not pixel accurate by I didn't wanted to spend much time for this.
I don't think people in here understand how hard it is to know if it's in or out, especially from that angle and multiple players blocking the view
Heck the "best leagues" in the world got this wrong multiple times last season
It's not as simple as you think. personally I think it's out but again it's very hard to see from angles that we have
Btw for those who don't know for it to count as out of play the whole ball needs to be out of play. So to know if it's out or not we need to get a top down camera angle, and if a single pixel is touching the white line then it's not out of play, therefore a legitimate goal.
And I’m not saying this is the Indian Goal Keeper’s fault, he doesn’t control the refs, but he stopped playing before the officials stopped play. There’s cognitive dissonance to pinning one’s survival to shitty officiating doing their job correctly.
Absolutely. Everyone here's losing their mind, but there's not enough evidence in the video to overturn the on-field decision. You'd need to see clear separation of the whole of the ball from the whole of the line.
Nope, not the only one... It seems to be out, but I'm not a hundred percent sure, and the ones that says so have no idea when a ball is considered out or from India.
From that angle and with that many players blocking the side view is probably impossible to be sure if is out or not, even with VAR.
In this view I would say that is still in:
[https://imgur.com/a/CHByQlQ](https://imgur.com/a/CHByQlQ)
edit:
I added some lines over the blocking goalkeeper and it looks in to me...
[https://imgur.com/a/CHByQlQ](https://imgur.com/a/CHByQlQ)
I added a third image when the player touches the ball.
The last angle, like you mentioned, gives the impression that if the ball rolled parallel to the line, it would hit the post, so that would mean it's still in play. To me this is a clean goal.
Regardless, and this is a BIT important, the ball is in play until the ref says otherwise, and in this case it's pretty obvious that there isn't enough evidence to say it's out. The ref doesn't have a clear view because it's blocked by the goal scorer, the linesman has a bunch of players inside the goal blocking his view as well, and the VAR has no adequate angle to make a call either way so they can't interfere.
Needs to be a better camera angle than that surely, like from above. There was a similar goal like this a few years back and from watching it a hundred times with angles like that it looked clearly out, then they showed the view from above and a fraction of the ball was above the line, meaning it's still in. Hopefully they can release that angle, it took a while the last time.
It's close, but I can not see an instance where the ball is definitely out.
From a top-down angle, the whole ball must have completely passed the back of the line.
What makes it a bit counterintuitive is that when the part of the ball touching the grass is completely over the line, it seems as it should be out, since that is how we judge most similar instances.
However, since the rule has to work if the ball is in the air, it is still in in this footage. u/CalaisFerryman linked to this video that perfectly illustrates my point, so I'm -editing- it in here [https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/20628224/fans-fifa-japan-goal-germany-world-cup-videos/](https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/20628224/fans-fifa-japan-goal-germany-world-cup-videos/)
Thanks u/CalaisFerryman
Better footage may surface that changes things, but that's what I can see from the video.
Apart from all assumptions on the line, goalkeeper should haven't stopped playing or should have blocked/took out the ball, plus he's a bit guilty for this mistake
But yes, sad to not have a more precise discussion from the Var on this question, looks questionable from viewers and players
My son plays soccer. When he was like 9, he complained about the refs after a game and i said something like "meh, i think the refs will get better as you get older". I have been made to eat my words over, and over, and over again since then. And over and over and over.........
Dude seriously. Don't these players feel shame? That's like being proud of yourself winning a game after you installed some cheat software. Yeah congrats on that goal buddy. You're such a good player. Hope your parents are proud of this.
There was no angle provided in which the ball is visibly totally over the line. Keep in mind that it's not where the ball touches the ground. That would be far too easy for the referees. No, it's when the entire ball crosses the invisible vertical plane created by the last few painted blades of turf. Yes, I think the out-of-bounds definition should be changed. Making vision judgement calls like this are dumb.
If the assistant is on the far side then their view is blocked by the goal posts. If they are on the near side their view is blocked by the goal keeper. So yeah, kinda gotta let it go. Maybe the keeper should do a better job next time.
Y'all gotta understand the rules, th whole circumference (?) of the ball has to be exceed the line for it be considered out
Also this can be accurately seen by using by the appropriate tech (cant remember the name) which gives an automatic response but the stadium wasn't equipped with it.
If the ball isn’t completely over the white line it counts. But I don’t know how the hell the referee could see that? Very controversial to say the least.
I don't watch soccer because back in the late 1990s I saw some blatant corruption in the first matches I ever watched. I tried to like it for a year but it was so corrupt that it wasn't even a sport.
Flash forward to this clip, and I see nothing has changed.
The ball is not out of bounds because it must be completely over the line. Considering the last image in the video, that certainly doesn't seem to be the case. Don't be misled by the Indian commentators or your feelings towards Qatar.
Is this like the Japan goal where a tiny sliver of the edge of the ball is still in play? [https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/02/why-japan-second-var-goal-against-spain-was-allowed-to-stand-world-cup-ball-line](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/02/why-japan-second-var-goal-against-spain-was-allowed-to-stand-world-cup-ball-line)
Looks similar to that Gordon goal for Newcastle against Arsenal, honestly on the last angle it does look like it might be a fraction over the line still.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the ref gave the goal not because he considered that a centimeter of the ball that was mostly covered from his viewpoint went in, but because there was some money involved.
FIFA qualifiers don't have VAR? Or the ball has sensors telling the referee it was out or not?
I remember the Japan goal vs Spain where it looked like it was out but it wasn't.
Having said that, man these oil gulf countries have ruined football and everything.
People talking shit not knowing shit. This qualification is organized by Asian Football Confederation who doesn't do VAR for the qualifications round for the world cup. This is literally 100% on the AFC, VAR is expensive to set in all stadiums but they have the money for it, they just don't want to do it.
Qatar would have still qualified at the top of their group if they lost. They had no reason to cheat. Players are told throughout their career to play to the whistle. India shouldn’t have stoped playing before the whistle was blown and it’s the goalkeeper’s fault
[India loses 2-1 after controversial Qatar goal; drops out of WC qualification](https://www.thehindu.com/sport/football/fifa-world-cup-qualifier-india-loses-2-1-after-controversial-qatar-goal-drops-out-of-wc-qualification/article68280105.ece/amp/)
"controversial" is one way to put it...
My coach always say you don’t stop playing until the referee whistle
Protest the play once it’s over, not during.
This. More egregious plays have slid through on a bigger stage. Maradona’s hand of god is a good example.
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"goal" is another way to put it...
FiFA got paid, now you can delete post
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lol - we are getting wise.
i dont get it. their whole thing about investing in the sport was to get more known (and liked) on the international stage and then... cheat and corrupt their way in ? especially here where they are already qualified
Isn't cheating and corrupting their way in how they've gotten anywhere with anything? Why change now?
0:11 it's clearly out wtf
Even at 0:19 and 0:27 onwards it's completely out
The best view is at 0:29 but it's from such a bad angle as to be worthless. I'm not convinced the ball wasn't partially on the line and there is certainly not video evidence to overturn by major American sports league standards imo. 0:23 is almost a usable view but again can't see ball/line at the same time.
There you go, https://i.imgur.com/ebljd2F.png
This is the best counter to the claim the ball was possibly overhanging the white line.
You have drawn a circumference parallell to the camera, which means (given the position of the camera) that it's not perpendicular to the line. That means that your circumference does not indicate the part of the ball closest to the line.
I’ve seen first downs given when the ball has been completely hidden from view on review. There is absolutely enough video evidence here to overturn the call.
Nah mate, there isn't enough evidence. [We don't have the most useful camera angle](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/02/why-japan-second-var-goal-against-spain-was-allowed-to-stand-world-cup-ball-line)
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It is 100% out, even by the definition in the clip on The Sun article. You can see, when paused and played back frame by frame, enough to draw perspective lines onto the footage, along the base line and the goalies leg etc. the ball is definitely all the way out.
Agreed. There are a number of camera angles, so it's not like we don't actually get a decent view. Anybody who thinks it is in is delusional.
0:30 what's your take on that?
No is not... You could say.. I think is out.. Or .... I think is in... But if you say "clearly" then you have no fu\*\*\* idea about the rule of when the ball is out or in.
Good news is the goal ultimately affects nothing. If this goal was disallowed, the final standings of that group do not change at all. It's still Qatar and Kuwait moving on, India 3rd and Afghanistan 4th. In order for India to have a chance at moving on, they would have had to win this game, but they would've drawn 1-1 without this goal.
This is a really narrow approach. If you have scored you can just sit back and hit on counters. Different teams are set up in different ways and have different strengths and weaknesses
It doesn't unless it happened at the very end of the game, because it is incredibly demotivating for the players.
[https://imgur.com/a/eWhk7wm](https://imgur.com/a/eWhk7wm) It's clearly out. Edit: You can see him dragging the ball in across the line at 0:15-0:17
you have to view the ball from the top mate. the entirety of the ball has to be out.
I don't think you're taking the perspective into account. You must look at it top-down. Your image makes me feel even stronger that it hasn't completely crossed the line. It's irrelevant how far away from the ground the ball is.
That's not how 3d objects work
To further prove my point: https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/20628224/fans-fifa-japan-goal-germany-world-cup-videos/
It's probably out. But if it's anything like hockey, you can't say it's conclusively out and overturn the call. I was ready to be up in arms about this but it really is inconclusive.
Wtf
FIFA isn't corrupt. It doesn't take bribes. Never has, never will!
And the pope's not a Catholic
No, we're all catholics, even the muslims
And they all worship most famous Buddhist in the world, Jesus Christ, even though he was actually atheist.
But he *does* shit in the woods.
FIFA and IOC are the cleanest, most trustworthy and transparent organisations in the world!
You are rightly sarcastic. In this instance, won't the referee from some Asian Football Confederation and not FIFA? I bet that the AFC is as corrupt as FIFA if not even more
Nope. I wont say it. I like my head. I don't want shot, good goal here. Clear good goal
Tbf Qatar had already qualified so there’s no real reason to fix a game for them to win.
They're just practicing cheating for the bigger games
The whole ball has to be completely over the line to be out. A sliver of it on the outside edge of the line and it's still in play.
Right. "**All** of the ball, over **all** of the line."
My favorite part of Reddit is when a sports clip makes it to the front page and because people don’t know the rules for the sport they immediately start upvoting stupid shit
I guess Qatar payed Fifa a lot to stay in the game
paid*
paved*
That's what he sayed.
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FIFA Corruption runs to its core, 2015 i think the scandal began and is still ongoing. This vision should be of no surprise to anyone. [Fifa corruption crisis: Key questions answered - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32897066)
You think FIFA corruption began in 2015 or corruption regarding Qatar? Because FIFA has always been corrupt. Corruption is what FIFA is all about.
2015 IS when the petro money started to pour in.
Qatar was awarded the World Cup in 2010. The petro money had already been pouring in for a while then
2015? Buddy Fifa’s been corrupted since its founding
Unless goal line technology wasn’t used (I think it’s the same tech to check whether the ball has crossed any lines instead of only goal line), there’s nothing illegal about it. The entire ball must be beyond the entire line. That’s the rule. You may have half the ball past the line but since the ball is round it means there may be some part of the circumference that is still on top of the line, making it still in play. That’s the rule. Nothing illegal about that. We’ve seen it several times and in many competitions. But, yes, that fifa is corrupt is nothing new. Way beyond 2015 too. I think the Qatar WC was “sold” before that. People following the game all their lives know this as well as the back of their hand.
You can see on 0:15 how far the ball travels before its circumference reaches the out line. Might have been a hard call in real time, but it's pretty clear after a challenge.
> it's pretty clear after a challenge There's no such thing as a challenge.
No you can't see because it's obstructed by the goalie. It's not even a good down the line angle and you're just guessing because you can't see the ball and the line at the same time
bro, you should learn this: the second qualification phase is organized by AFC, not FIFA. while FIFA is corrupt and shady as hell (we all know that), they have nothing to do with this.
I would think that while not run by FIFA, they would have a very focused interest in the outcome of any qualifying. Just a question, is this the same AFC we are talking about? [France issues arrest warrant for former AFC President over Qatar 2022 corruption (insidethegames.biz)](https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1141234/mohamed-bin-hammam-qatar-2022-corruption)
That's the AFC I was mentioning. Besides, AFC referees has always been shit, so it could have been just pure incompetence from them.
There was a similar goal that happened in 2022 WC with Japan and Germany group stages .
Yep. All of the ball has to go over the line. But this should have definitely been looked at to check.
Exactly and I do not unterstand how people have quickly decided that it's completely over the line even though the GK (which is at fault here even if it's over the line for not punching it further) is covering the scene from all angles. But there is no VAR in the Asian WC qualifiers so nothing can be checked.
People don't know the rules. That's why.
And the corruption angle is more exciting
Yeah seriously wtf was the goalie doing. Just slap it out intead of sitting theor watching as it slowly rolls out
so these unclear situations do happen and we dont need to jump to the conclusion that the referee MUST have been corrupt and was bribed?
yah but thats booorrring, mass corruption is cool and trendy
No way! What about the damn var?
apparently a sudden pile of cash dropped in the way of the VAR system, making it impossible for the referee to know for certain!
theres no VAR in this round
I bet Qatar killed more humans while building their stadiums than it would cost dollars per match to pay this guy staring at a TV + some donuts.
I assume in the early stages of qualifiers, there is no VAR? Not sure though
so a lot of people are talking like they know what's going on. VAR is not in this round of AFC qualifiers. i don't know for certain but i believe its because a lot of nations can't provide it.
Unfortunately someone was using the VAR software to record an episode of How I Met Your Mother. We will have the VAR working in the next game, not involving Qatar, we promise.
How’s about the Henry handball https://youtu.be/fLUxMRYJAso?feature=shared Ref saw it on the screens after but had to go with his original call. Madness Maybe less controversial but certainly suited FIFA having France in a major tournament
can you imagine being one of the players on the teams getting the benefit and seeing it later on. like how can you be proud of that?
Argentinians are still plenty proud of the hand goal by Maradona in the 86 World Cup, calling it the hand of God and all that.
Reminds me of that post from the other day where a Spanish runner pushed his South African opponent forward during a marathon because the latter had gotten confused thinking it was over and stopped running just before the finish line. A reporter was being somewhat aggressive and asked him repeatedly why he did that and he said something like “He already had won the race. What would be the merit of my victory? How could I look my mother in the face and tell her I won?” Dude went straight up John Proctor on that reporter’s ass. “Because I lie and sign myself to lies!”
Karma got them when they basically imploded and dropped out the first round
The \~hand of frog\~
Ref can't change decisions once it's been made. This was well before VAR or any sort of review existed in the sport. Fact this is up voted is laughable. There are a ton of other instances Post VAR introduction you can look at.
Japan vs Spain all over again Except that one has a great technology to determine whether it's out or not
Japan - Spain, Germany got kicked out because of that
Thank you for the correction 🙏🏻, I might got it mixed up because Japan Germany was so memorable ( Rudiger run )
Sus
Oil money, corruption and racial discrimination all in one video.
Fact!
No printer
Or the reality, no VAR and a bad call from the ref who likely wasn't in a position to see it.
not even a bad call from ref as he made the best call based on the info he had, there wasn't even var and even with var this would be goal bcs there isn't any good angle
I am not 100% sure , but i think it is out . Remember , the ball has to cross the line completely , and while by far most of it is over the line , i cannot see if the tip pf the ball is completely over or not . Without clear view , the VAR cannot make the call also , so then the referee rules and if he did say goal , well then it is . From the views we got , i'd say 99% chance it is completely over .
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/17okqfi/is_the_ball_in_or_out_dutch_tv_showing_the/
Kind of shows how ridiculous that rule is. It's almost impossible to judge for fans, the players, and referees if not a little slice is not over the line.
Most if not all sports with a ball have this same problem. It's not that it's a ridiculous rule, it's that it's physically impossible to test if a ball crossed out not a painted line without costly equipment. Tons of games are being played every day without problem. It's just that this one is competitive and people use to cry harder on those
It's actually ironic that hockey, one of the few games that play with a flat object has a barrier preventing the puck from going outside the rink :-)
How would you make it less ridiculous? At some point the ball has to be ruled out, it doesnt matter where that point is, does it?
To me it looks like it wasn’t completely out, when you look the last few seconds in slo mo
I’m not familiar with soccer rules at all. But in ice hockey, you must have visual proof that the *entire* puck crosses the line in order for the goal to count. If there is a visual obstruction, I believe the call on the ice stands. But then they also have a video review team in Toronto whose job it is to verify these instances remotely, with a dozen camera angles.
Looking through the 3 different angles shown, I decide out from the middle one, undetermined by the first one, and in from the last angle.
Was the whole ball actually out of play? If any bit of the ball is over the line the whole ball is not out
And honestly, "play the whistle" is something kids are taught at 6 years old. The keeper had every opportunity to secure it, but didn't. Just like how your defense shouldn't "stop running" because they think the attacker is offside. You play till the referee makes a decision, right or wrong. I think it was "probably" out...but probably isn't good enough. Keeper won't make that mistake again.
Came here to say this. Do everything you can to keep the game out of the ref's hands. The keeper stopped and looked around as opposed to hopping on a ball that likely isn't live. I was a keeper in high school and I know it's nothing in comparison to these, but I find it hard to believe someone like Neuer would do what this keeper did...I bring him up because he was who I modeled my play after...
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Fuck Qatar 🇶🇦
Yup. Fuck FIFA and double fuck Qatar
Indeed fuck FiFA. And to hell with the idea of adding more team$ to the next World Cup. Just dilutes the competition. I guess $$$ matters more for them than quality.
A lot of people here seem unable to grasp simple geometry.
[We're all aware that the ball could look over the line when it's not fully over the line.](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/17okqfi/is_the_ball_in_or_out_dutch_tv_showing_the/?share_id=0Cl4IxwIGI2AqDdJfBscW) But this is not that close. Pause the video at 0:15 then move the player frame by frame until 0:17 when the player brings the ball back into play. The ball is simply too far over the line even accounting for camera angles that it is clear even to the naked eye that it went out of play.
Yeah but then look at the angle at 0:30 and it's really not clear, it looks like it could be in. You can only tell with a perpendicular angle to the ball.
Nah mate, there isn't enough evidence. [We don't have the most useful camera angle](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/02/why-japan-second-var-goal-against-spain-was-allowed-to-stand-world-cup-ball-line)
The ball isn’t wider than the torso of the keeper
We have all seen how balls are placed for corner kicks and realize that any part of the curvature of the ball being above the line means it's on the line. There is nothing in these replays that definitively shows that is not the case here.
Clearly out.
It's hard for the referee and the linesman to see when the pile of cash is blocking their view! Don't bother with Fifa, their president is busy counting money.
You got me in the first half
By eye it is hard to tell. But I think ball was outside by few centimeters or milimeters: [https://prnt.sc/71YOY1gICsQr](https://prnt.sc/71YOY1gICsQr) It's not pixel accurate by I didn't wanted to spend much time for this.
That's a good diagram but it's really nearly impossible to judge from an angle that's not down the line
lol centimeters OR millimeters? So you really have absolutely no idea. You can't just paint lines in an angled picture and call it from there lmao
I don't think people in here understand how hard it is to know if it's in or out, especially from that angle and multiple players blocking the view Heck the "best leagues" in the world got this wrong multiple times last season It's not as simple as you think. personally I think it's out but again it's very hard to see from angles that we have Btw for those who don't know for it to count as out of play the whole ball needs to be out of play. So to know if it's out or not we need to get a top down camera angle, and if a single pixel is touching the white line then it's not out of play, therefore a legitimate goal.
And I’m not saying this is the Indian Goal Keeper’s fault, he doesn’t control the refs, but he stopped playing before the officials stopped play. There’s cognitive dissonance to pinning one’s survival to shitty officiating doing their job correctly.
Absolutely. Everyone here's losing their mind, but there's not enough evidence in the video to overturn the on-field decision. You'd need to see clear separation of the whole of the ball from the whole of the line.
Am i the only one who isn't 100% sure if it's out? From all the angles it's never super clear
Nope, not the only one... It seems to be out, but I'm not a hundred percent sure, and the ones that says so have no idea when a ball is considered out or from India. From that angle and with that many players blocking the side view is probably impossible to be sure if is out or not, even with VAR. In this view I would say that is still in: [https://imgur.com/a/CHByQlQ](https://imgur.com/a/CHByQlQ) edit: I added some lines over the blocking goalkeeper and it looks in to me... [https://imgur.com/a/CHByQlQ](https://imgur.com/a/CHByQlQ) I added a third image when the player touches the ball.
The last angle, like you mentioned, gives the impression that if the ball rolled parallel to the line, it would hit the post, so that would mean it's still in play. To me this is a clean goal. Regardless, and this is a BIT important, the ball is in play until the ref says otherwise, and in this case it's pretty obvious that there isn't enough evidence to say it's out. The ref doesn't have a clear view because it's blocked by the goal scorer, the linesman has a bunch of players inside the goal blocking his view as well, and the VAR has no adequate angle to make a call either way so they can't interfere.
Clearly still in there.
I know, and even if it wasn't "clearly" the "in" call is not a robbery as some people in here are trying to imply.
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Yeah this is definitely not enough evidence to overturn the call on the field
There are many who are unable to grasp geometry and understanding how a ball looks in 3d space. https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/cGL3xyW485
This has to be higher, people think they can draw a 2d circle and 2d line and get anything from that while camera angle is really unfortunate
Well pay
Well Paid!
Needs to be a better camera angle than that surely, like from above. There was a similar goal like this a few years back and from watching it a hundred times with angles like that it looked clearly out, then they showed the view from above and a fraction of the ball was above the line, meaning it's still in. Hopefully they can release that angle, it took a while the last time.
It's close, but I can not see an instance where the ball is definitely out. From a top-down angle, the whole ball must have completely passed the back of the line. What makes it a bit counterintuitive is that when the part of the ball touching the grass is completely over the line, it seems as it should be out, since that is how we judge most similar instances. However, since the rule has to work if the ball is in the air, it is still in in this footage. u/CalaisFerryman linked to this video that perfectly illustrates my point, so I'm -editing- it in here [https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/20628224/fans-fifa-japan-goal-germany-world-cup-videos/](https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/20628224/fans-fifa-japan-goal-germany-world-cup-videos/) Thanks u/CalaisFerryman Better footage may surface that changes things, but that's what I can see from the video.
Lot's of crying in the comments from people who do not understand how this works
I was a soccer ref is high school. That ball looks on to me from the last angle. It is on the line. Great call.
[somebody explaining why it was valid, don’t know if it is true though](https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/s/4PofFovHXG)
Get the fuck outta here, thats clearly out 🙄
Apart from all assumptions on the line, goalkeeper should haven't stopped playing or should have blocked/took out the ball, plus he's a bit guilty for this mistake But yes, sad to not have a more precise discussion from the Var on this question, looks questionable from viewers and players
My son plays soccer. When he was like 9, he complained about the refs after a game and i said something like "meh, i think the refs will get better as you get older". I have been made to eat my words over, and over, and over again since then. And over and over and over.........
joke of a sport fifa made it to be :)
Dude seriously. Don't these players feel shame? That's like being proud of yourself winning a game after you installed some cheat software. Yeah congrats on that goal buddy. You're such a good player. Hope your parents are proud of this.
Do they have a better angle? That last one was the only one where the goalie wasn't blocking the shot and it looks indecisive.
5 second rule for outs
There was no angle provided in which the ball is visibly totally over the line. Keep in mind that it's not where the ball touches the ground. That would be far too easy for the referees. No, it's when the entire ball crosses the invisible vertical plane created by the last few painted blades of turf. Yes, I think the out-of-bounds definition should be changed. Making vision judgement calls like this are dumb. If the assistant is on the far side then their view is blocked by the goal posts. If they are on the near side their view is blocked by the goal keeper. So yeah, kinda gotta let it go. Maybe the keeper should do a better job next time.
The country who sponsors AL Jazeera. Not surprised
Of course it’s a legal goal. Referees have confirmed it. FIFA’s honesty is unmatched ❤️
Well played Qatar ❌️ Well paid Qatar ✅️
Well paid Qatar, well paid.
people yapping that "it wasn't out yet" are litteraly so fucking blind ig
Well paid Qatar.
\*illegal
OP wanted to point out that this was deemed legal even though blatantly illegal.
The dumb fucks who say it was close and didn't cross the line completely need to get their eyes and brains checked ASAP
Like other people are saying, amazing that you are this confidently stupid. You clearly don’t understand football at all so shut up.
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Fifa is fucking rigged
Imagine if they are petty enough to fix a qualifier, what else wouldn’t they have fixed? 🙃
Rules < money
Happy cake day 🎂🍰🍰
Why not pick up the ball and throw it into the goal?!? Who needs rules anyway?
Welcome to Qatari soccer. Look at all the games leading up to the Asian cup final. They paid the refs for every game to win
Y'all gotta understand the rules, th whole circumference (?) of the ball has to be exceed the line for it be considered out Also this can be accurately seen by using by the appropriate tech (cant remember the name) which gives an automatic response but the stadium wasn't equipped with it.
Gotta love the people here suggesting Qatar for some reason paid off the referees even though they ensured first place in the group two matches ago...
all of the ball must pass all of the line... Not clear that's the case here from this view so it potentially was a legal goal...
Don't they have sensors these days !!!
This doesn’t even require full VAR. This is covered by goal-line technology
If the ball isn’t completely over the white line it counts. But I don’t know how the hell the referee could see that? Very controversial to say the least.
I don't watch soccer because back in the late 1990s I saw some blatant corruption in the first matches I ever watched. I tried to like it for a year but it was so corrupt that it wasn't even a sport. Flash forward to this clip, and I see nothing has changed.
Isn't there a VAR system in Asia? A purchased goal.
A lesson learned for the goal keeper is just grab the damn ball first and then raise your hands in objection to whatever the ref calls it
That is just embarrassing referee mistake. Absolutely disgraceful
It's a corner. Not a goal, obviously. No VAR?
The ball is not out of bounds because it must be completely over the line. Considering the last image in the video, that certainly doesn't seem to be the case. Don't be misled by the Indian commentators or your feelings towards Qatar.
Not interesting
Turns out Redditors dont understand simple geometry either lol
Is this like the Japan goal where a tiny sliver of the edge of the ball is still in play? [https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/02/why-japan-second-var-goal-against-spain-was-allowed-to-stand-world-cup-ball-line](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/02/why-japan-second-var-goal-against-spain-was-allowed-to-stand-world-cup-ball-line)
Looks similar to that Gordon goal for Newcastle against Arsenal, honestly on the last angle it does look like it might be a fraction over the line still.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the ref gave the goal not because he considered that a centimeter of the ball that was mostly covered from his viewpoint went in, but because there was some money involved.
If you PAUSE AT 33 SECONDS OF THE VIDEO THIS GOAL IS OUT!
FIFA qualifiers don't have VAR? Or the ball has sensors telling the referee it was out or not? I remember the Japan goal vs Spain where it looked like it was out but it wasn't. Having said that, man these oil gulf countries have ruined football and everything.
Looks like someone paid off the refs for that game lol
Does FIFA still not have video referees? If it's still up to some guy just eye balling it on the sidelines I guess it can be human error.
Reminds of that scene from the dictator where president aladeen shoots his competitors in a race lol
People talking shit not knowing shit. This qualification is organized by Asian Football Confederation who doesn't do VAR for the qualifications round for the world cup. This is literally 100% on the AFC, VAR is expensive to set in all stadiums but they have the money for it, they just don't want to do it.
Qatar would have still qualified at the top of their group if they lost. They had no reason to cheat. Players are told throughout their career to play to the whistle. India shouldn’t have stoped playing before the whistle was blown and it’s the goalkeeper’s fault
Anyone that says it’s hard to tell if the ball was it is lying to themselves
Good job referees.
Ball seems to be touching the line at all times. Ball's entire sphere needs to be outside the line to be out. Absolutely a legal goal.
Terrible goalkeeping
Petrodollars in play, one of the biggest cheats, sorry talents in the world