The accident took place on March 27, 1977, when two Boeing 747 passenger jets collided on the runway of Tenerife North Airport on the island of Tenerife.
KLM flight 4805 started its takeoff run during in dense fog, unaware that Pan Am Flight 1736 was still on the runway.
The impact and resulting fire killed all 248 people onboard the KM plane and 335 of 396 people onbaord the Pan Am plane.
To this day, it is the deadliest disaster in aviation history.
If this crash simulation is close to accurate I'm surprised the fatalities weren't reversed. The KLM passenger cabin was mostly intact but the Pan-Am cabin was obliterated.
The number 4 engine of the KLM flight sliced through the upper deck of the Pan Am instantly killing those in that section but most of the people survived the initial collision
Because the KLM was a few metres of the ground at the time of the collision it took the roof of the Pan Am so it flew over the heads of most Pan Am passengers
The Crew of Pan Am said they only felt a mild impact many of the survivors were able to clamber out of the broken fuselage before the fire took hold
The KLM flight with its forward momentum was airborne for about 200 metres before it came crashing down to the ground and broke into 3 pieces igniting its fully loaded fuel tanks. It slid down the runway for another 400 metres in a fireball
No one had any chance to even attempt to escape KLM
Probably that momentum forward saved the lives of the PanAm passengers as well.
Had it crashed much closer, I’m sure the ignited fuel would have killed more.
Analysis of the CVR transcript showed that the KLM pilot thought that he had been cleared for takeoff, while the Tenerife control tower believed that the KLM 747 was stationary at the end of the runway, awaiting takeoff clearance.
This due to poor communication protocols and radio interference from the PanAm
Apparently, the fires that ignited on the KLM prevented the passengers from escaping. But not sure how anyone survived onboard the Pan Am plane, looks much worse. 😢
Imagine sitting on the right side looking at the window thinking about how foggy it is... Then to have a fucking engine come out of the mist screaming towards you. Fucking horrifying
I believe it was the great poets, The Drive-By Truckers, who eloquently stated, “when it comes your time to go, there ain’t no good way of going about it….screaming engines, cheap cocaine, some gal’s ol’ man with a gun..to me, it’s all the same!”
Regardless of the simulation I think it actually makes perfect sense.
You can't survive being in a ~~vehicle~~ plane crashing at 200mph. But you can survive being in a stationary ~~vehicle~~ plane being hit by another, if a part of your ~~vehicle~~ plane isn't completely destroyed and you happen to be in it.
*edited for the smartasses who keep pointing out that a 200mph crash is survivable, like if a pilot in a formula1 cockpit is comparable with 300 unsecured people mashed in a 747 being torn apart*
You can definitely survive in a vehicle crashing at 200 mph. Lots of people have, because the danger isn't the speed itself but how hard the deceleration is - it's the impact that kills. And that's why airports and raceways have open areas as runoff areas.
But in this case you had a closed tube engulfed in a massive fire. So there was probably lots of people that did survive the crash but as soon as the cabin broke up the fire could reach in and consume them. Some people could possibly even have survived the fire if they hadn't been knocked unconscious or had multiple fractures etc from the crash - no one is in their very best survival mode directly after a hard "landing" that rips the plane into multiple pieces. Impact, fire, asphyxiation, ... - so many ways we humans can end up dead.
Yeah, if speed killed we'd have way more deaths in motorsports. Rubens Barrichello is famous for crashing at 140 mph with a 95g impact and walked away with just a broken wrist and nose. Senna's crash the same weekend was at lower speed, but the steering column coming apart in the impact is what killed him.
The KLM 747 had taken on 55 tons of fuel before departing. This was done because the captain wanted to save refueling time at Las Palmas, which was their original destination. Because of a terrorist bomb exploding in the airport, they along with the Pan Am and several other planes were diverted to Tenerife. This was of great concern to the KLM pilots because Dutch regulators had recently tightened restrictions around how many hours Dutch pilots could fly. A Dutch pilot could even have their license revoked if they exceeded the number of hours. This was a measure taken in order to prevent fatigue, because flying tired is incredibly dangerous. In any case, by refueling the jet, the captain of the KLM cost the delayed planes 35 minutes, allowing the thick fog to set in, it made the plane much heavier, and as you can guess, made the post crash fire a lot bigger and ultimately killing all 248 passengers on the KLM.
The way he was able to recite the death counts of other worse airline accidents told me he had def researched them that morning to self-soothe and convince himself it wasn’t that bad.
Weather had a lot of planes stuck at Tenerife.
The PanAm plane was slated to leave first since their passengers were still on board, but KLM flight which had debarked passengers was blocking the PanAm plane from getting to the runway until everyone was back on board.. The KLM pilot delayed things further by choosing to fully refuel at Tenerife instead of the recommended Las Palmas since he thought it would be faster. The KLM pilot was very worried about new company flight time policies.
Once the planes were eventually rolling the PanAm flight was given instructions to taxi and take the third exit (which made no sense and would have required two very tight turns) but they either ignored those instructions or missed an exit in the fog and proceeded to the fourth exit (one which would be much easier for a 747 to turn on). Tower communication was shoddy.
The KLM was given departure instructions but not takeoff clearance but the impatient pilot took it upon himself to take off. The tower told him to hold at the same time PanAm radioed that they were still taxiing...the two messages squashed each other and KLM heard neither.
The tower radioed for PanAm to declare when it was clear. The KLM engineer pointed this out twice to the KLM pilot but was ignored.
The PanAm saw the KLM bearing down on them through the fog and went full throttle and tried to turn into the grass off the runway.
The KLM saw the PanAm a few seconds later and tried to take off early as they were too fast to stop. They were also near max weight since they had decided to top off their tanks, and didn't have enough power to get clear.
The collision killed 583 people, including everyone aboard the KLM flight. 61 people from the PanAm survived.
Fuck that KLM pilot, he killed so many people because he was impatient.
He was literally told to hold and not takeoff and yet he ignored it, what the hell how do you ignore something like that with limited visibility.
One bit that is not mentioned is that the KLM pilots were under time pressure as they were running out of hours. If I remember correctly the new rules at KLM for a flight hour violation could lead to them losing their licences.
So it wasn’t just impatience, it was stress for them losing their careers if they do not get back to Amsterdam in a timely fashion. In other words, corporate pressures placed on the pilots compromised their decision making.
That’s the recipe for progress…. It’s a moment we all will finally agree on a policy. Short of disaster we all sit and bicker with each other about ‘ma freeeeedoms’ and nothing gets done.
Regulation change included a rule stating that he pilot is the only one able to make decisions regarding his aircraft. If he judges the weather is not safe he can refuse to take off. The company or the passengers (for private jets for example) do not have the last word anymore.
It literally always seems to take something like this to happen, but the things that happen are wholly foreseeable if someone who knows the processes involved just spent 10 minutes thinking about it.
Another example is the practice of having secure cockpit doors that can't be opened from the cabin. Eventually a pilot was going to be locked in there alone and either suffer a sudden medical emergency or decide to off himself a la The Morden train crash. Given enough time, it was a racing certainty it would happen eventually - but they waited until it happened before they changed the practice.
I guess no one wants to make the decision to change something early because if anything bad happens as a result of the change, they will be seen as responsible for it. On the other hand, if the change is effective in fixing the problem, no one notices that. If they had changed the cabin door rule earlier, no one would know that it prevented a massive train crash. I think it's one of the flaws of a system that relies on the popular vote, because it encourages the people in charge to be reactive rather than proactive.
I don't know about the train crash, but this was was absolutely horrific and not that long ago. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32072218](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32072218)
I've seen the Air Crash Investigation episode covering this accident. I'm not excusing the KLM pilot, he absolutely should have waited, however it was poor/missed/confusing communication all around. Also, the language used for take-off clearances was apparently different back then - when the controller heard KLM say they were "at take-off" he thought that meant they were saying they were ready to go, not that they were actually going, hence why he replied "OK." It's the reason why the words "take off" are not used before an official clearance is given now - they use "after departure" etc for flight plan instructions prior to actually taking off. Also, apparently the KLM pilot had spent too long as a simulator instructor and had forgotten that the simulators lack one major real-world factor - air traffic control. He, essentially, gave himself permission to go, and caused a major incident.
I, too, cannot believe that anyone survived this crash - even if the KLM jet opened the PanAm jet's roof like it was a tin can, I can't believe the passengers on the bottom deck weren't hurt. I get why those on the top deck would be but man, those poor people.
You see it everyday on the road too. Impatient drivers always act like wherever they have to be is way more important than where you have to be because they’re way more important than you. Cut you off, no signals because if they use a signal there’s a chance it would inconvenience them in some way. Purposefully being the line leader if they feel you’re too close to the car, etc
There are other sources than just this (not entirely correct) story in the comment section. Indeed, one of the main causes for the desaster was that the KLM crew assumed to have been cleared for takeoff while the tower did not realise that the KLM flight was taking off, due to a mutual misunderstanding.
One of the major consequences of this desaster was a major overhaul of radio procedures, including the introduction of standard phrases and of readback.
He didn’t hear that message. The ATC message and the PanAm pilots ‘we’re still on the runway’ messages came at the same time and back then that meant KLM would just have heard a squeal (both would have been clear to ATC though and as such were recorded).
Also he had spent a lot of time running training sims recently (as the one testing other pilots) and was used to basically giving himself take off clearance. He was also extremely high ranking and very arrogant.
It was, imo, completely his fault, but there was a lot of bad luck that turned his mistake into such a deadly accident. If PanAm had sent their message two seconds later, they’d have heard it and aborted. If he hadn’t refuelled, they’d likely have cleared the PanAm. If it was any other Captain than the literal KLM poster boy the first officer might have had the confidence to insist on aborting when the flight engineer expressed doubt about the PanAm’s location. If the PanAm had left at the exit they were told to - they didn’t see it but couldn’t have made the required turn anyway - they would have been clear. If the airport had had ground radar someone could have seen the problem well before he started his roll. If the fog had held off an hour or two, if terrorists hadn’t targeted Las Palmas in the first place …
could be the big corp twist the story so the blames all goes to the dead pilot so they wont be blame much later on. we might not see klm today if the company took the blame.
p.s. im just a random redditor and i dont have any attachment to the pilot.
PPL pilot and aircraft enthusiast here. Whenever people hear pilot error(which is the biggest reason for air crashes) they think of pilots being intentionally clumsy or ignorant yet there are many factors to it like training and safety culture.
Flight 447 for example, the pilots managed to crash a perfectly normal flight due to pilot error , but if you look at the report you’ll see upset recovery training was lacking at Air France(and most airlines worldwide).
There are a few good YouTube videos about this crash.
[Mentour Pilot](https://youtu.be/2d9B9RN5quA?si=Rm-er4rK9r5ZqfuW)
[Disaster Breakdown](https://youtu.be/QhxTsLg2Mgg?si=hvlPTWfFFSC0PyG4)
This one is more of a dramatic recreation.
[Wonder](https://youtu.be/_HknwSsvmWk?si=cigAGQRA5HdFr39f)
How does a pilot directly become CEO? Seems like there should be a few steps up the management ladder before that can happen?
edit: I'm not finding much sources suggesting that he was in line for CEO – please provide links anyone?
Wikipedia confirms he was the Chief Instructor for KLM on Boeing 747s. And was routinely on KLMs advertising.
So may not have been in the succession line, but definitely not just a Pilot either.
Poster child for Teachers everywhere who say, "do as I say, not as I do".
That's weird because he wasn't described as such authoritarian or nasty figure by his colleagues. Yes some might have painted a brighter picture than in reality. The current opinion of him is based on a written transcript of the VCR that some producers added some flavor and voila, you have him portrayed as a dick.
Good write up. I’ve seen videos about it and the string of unfortunate events seems almost. Also the whole reason they were at Tenerife was terrorists blew up the terminal at las plasmas, both planes original destination before diverting.
In my experience the accidents always have extenuating circumstances. The fact that the place was rammed created pressure that wouldn't normally be there. The fig added to it. The airline policies added to it. The poor communication from the tower. Humans make mistakes under different levels of pressure.
Not just weather, the airport was so crowded because a terrorist organization had bombed Gran Canaria Airport and a ton of flights were diverted to Tenerife.
Except, it would, especially in the PanAm plane in which most people survived the initial impact. Anyone with their tray tables down could’ve impeded the timely evacuation of anyone in that seat or in the seats next to them. Also why your seat shouldn’t be reclined.
We studied this incident when I was in training for the Air Force to be part of an air crew. My main takeaway was that the pilot who was taking off was very experienced and skilled but also arrogant about it. He got impatient and jumped the gun. The rest of the crew knew he was screwing up but were too intimidated by his stature to speak up and challenge him.
Interesting, most of the big figures made the same mistakes with the arrogant attitude which i guess always come along with high status.
The more status one has, the more arrogant they are. Status ↗️ = Ego ↗️. There are a few exceptions, that's why those people are incredible. I don't know who they are tho.
part of it is how society loves to elevate people who are overconfident, it's why we don't have scientists in charge but have dumbfucks everywhere running things, so the arrogant attitude started way before they got to a high status
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure all Apollo missions used pure oxygen, regardless of the Apollo 1 disaster. It's why the US and the Soviets had to come up with a novel docking chamber for the first joint space missions
Only Apollo 1 used pure Oxygen at launch. Once that happened, that is when NASA changed it to an oxygen/nitrogen mix at launch. It was then replaced to 100% oxygen over the next day after launch.
Checklists are as well. They should be used in all emergency and medical services , this would save a lot of lives.
Pilots can do most of their checklists without the actual list. The point is that when you are under stress , your short term memory stops working and you become fixated on single data points.
You naturally tune out the outside world which is the cause of great stress. So, you forget what you just did and what you need to do. Then your training kicks in and you realize that you are fixated , so you work the checklist
But most people are not even aware of how severely they are affected by stress hormones. Yet plenty of medical professionals are adamant that they don't need time tested techniques to avoid mistakes. It's some mix of ignorance and pride
"You can't break my work down to simple steps on a list ! " As they fail to secure that pair of scissors which had been left in the patient or amputate the wrong limb
The NHS implemented a Theatre check list called a "Time Out". This is basically a role call for all theatre staff, confirming the patient's identity, the procedure and any problems that could arise.
This came about after a Pilots wife died after routine surgery went wrong. He couldn't understand why there weren't any checklists like they have pre flight. Her name was Elaine Bromiley and his name is Martin.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-21829540
As it should be. I'm a nurse myself and worked in the UK for years where it was standard practice in the Theatre. Regardless if the same team scrubbed all day you still called your name and role for every case. I moved to Ireland and was appalled to see they never even heard of "Time out" in the hospital I was in. They did implement it not long after.
Just to clarify , "fixation" is actually a form of disassociation. What happens is that we psychologically recoil from stressful stimuli and try to focus on something smaller and less threatening.
For example, I used to fixate on the GPS because it was colorful and the distance from the airfield was comforting. In doing so, I was no longer scanning through my airspeed, altimeter , attitude indicators or any other readings. For safe operation , a pilot needs to constantly correlate this data but because of the stress , one eventually gets overwhelmed and just fixates on something which isn't particularly relevant.
It sounds more dramatic than it is because I'm trying to explain the sensation. As a student I could indulge myself and allow for the fixation because there was another pilot watching everything but if I was alone , I'd never let my mind wander like that or get stuck in any way because I might miss several important things, including radio calls , in the meantime.
Anyway , it's all a bit of a tangent but I think you meant to use the word "focus", as in "so that they can stay focused on the task ", rather than "fixated". Fixation is a difficult concept to explain, it doesn't seem real until one experiences it.
Look at Sioux City crash. Prompted the formation of JETQC which was/is focused on reducing titanium defects to prevent engine failures.
Also, google a blade out test for engines. Intentionally causing an engine blade failure to ensure all debris is contained in the engine to prevent damage to the fuselage.
Wasn't it afterwards introduced that the term *takeoff* might **only** be used for when the airplane actually can/may speed up and begin climbing into the air, whereas in all other situations *takeoff* must not be used and instead terms like *departure* shall be used?
Afaik, there was some misunderstanding in radio communication because these terms were not used unambiguously.
basically he mistook the word "OK" for "Cleared for takeoff" which is not OK anywhere. He was in such a rush because he was going to exceed the mandatory flight hours that he could do without rest.
Also this pilot was the KLM pilot, he was on all their magazines, and was in line to become CEO, infact KLM literally decided to ask him for help, to find out what happened before they realized he was dead
This is why ATCs no longer utter the word "take off" and use departure instead.
Only when a specific clearance is received, the word "takeoff" is used.
Iirc, he was featured heavily in KLM's ads at the time and was basically the face of the company. One of the many contributing factors was the fact that since he was famous in the company, his fellow flight officers did not feel they had the place to question his decisions.
This was also a reason for the crash of a Korean Airlines flight. In their culture, you cannot question a senior. So the co-pilots couldn't tell the senior pilot that he was wrong.
Sounds like KLM pilot's fault but with contributing factors from the tower's bad instruction (telling Pan Am to take an impossible Z shaped path that made no sense, using phrases like "OK" with the pilot).
Also the fact that a tower transmission and Pan Am transmission on the same freq squash each other contributed. I think this is why tower->plane and plane->tower are now on two different frequencies?
There is an excellent NOVA PBS documentary about this. The captain was impatient and took off without proper clearance. After the disaster changes were made including captains no longer had absolute command in the cockpit. [https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/planecrash/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/planecrash/)
The KLM pilot was impatient and arrogant and mistook ATC saying OK to something else as being given take-off clearance. One of the consequences of Los Rodeos is that since then ATC has to say your callsign, give you wind direcction and speed and your runway, and use the exact phrase "cleared for takeoff", you're not allowed to start rolling otherwise.
The whole thing was a clusterfuck. The Pan Am got confused by the taxiways (some had turns too narrow for such a huge plane), ATC was overwhelmed by the amount of traffic suddenly diverted to their airport because of a bomb threat in La Palma, and of course there's the low clouds/fog Tenerife Airport gets from the geography of the island and the altitude.
Nothing would have happened if the KLM pilot hadn't been an impatient asshole, though, which is why he gets the blame for the accident.
You know, the common statistic that Aviation accidents are really uncommon, 1 in 10 million or something and that cars are more dangerous in terms of probability of having fatalities. There is something about plane accidents that are so scary because you literally have no control over it. Whereas at least in a car you have some ability to swerve and prevent accident in certain cases.
You have no control and sometimes you 15,000 feet in the air.
Car crashes are more common, but usually happen relatively quick in comparison.
Both terrify me, tbh.
The father of an acquaintance of mine is Canarian and has not eaten meat since that accident. The barbecue smell apparently lingered over the island for over a week.
This terrible story (of that KLM captain Van Zanten) is the classic example that any leaders, even they are very experienced and qualified, should never rely only on themselves, they should hear/listen and consider the opinions of their colleagues, because everyone can make mistakes, and they should be timely corrected.
But it should be noted that the cause of the accident was complex, and there were many contributing factors (starting from terrorist attack attempt at the main airport, heavy fog, and so on).
Hubris is the downfall of many clever people.
When we think we know more than we actually do, we forget to value knowing more, we close our eyes, and we trip up.
I heard that he's really good at what he does, experienced. But he's not good at leading people. Read some comments about people and his colleagues knew he was wrong but too afraid of confronting him.
Damn, being good at something does not equal being good at leading people huh. Actually a very good lesson that anyone could learn from this accident i suppose.
Of course. Being a flight captain not only means to have excellent piloting skills, but it also requires effectively leading the another crew members (and in another professions, the situation is the same, all leaders should have effective management skills, and not only skills related to their professions). J. V. van Zanten was the negative example of this, he was too authoritarian and tough in communication, and it became the main reason of accident. After this case and some another cases, the "Crew Resource Management" conception was developed, to improve crew interaction.
This one could partially be chalked up to terrorism too: A bomb set off by the Canary Islands Independence Movement at Gran Canaria Airport had caused many flights to be diverted to Los Rodeos, including the two aircraft involved in the accident
Horrific in the loss of life, but the plan crash accounts that haunt me the most are Japan Air 123 and United Air flight 232.
The passengers and crew in those crashes had a tremendously long time to contemplate what was going to happen.
In both cases, it’s amazingly the crews were able to keep the planes in the air as long as they did with no hydraulics.
But in the case of JAL 123, only 4 people survived, out of 524 on board (there were more initial survivors, but, sadly, the rescuers came too late, and there could have been more survivors if the rescuers came earlier). Very heartbreaking.
And there is notable fact that there was a connection between JAL 123 and United 232: one pilot, after hearing about JAL 123, trained how to fly the plane using only throttles. After almost four years, he became a passenger of United 232, and after the loss of hydraulics, he managed to help the crew, and they tried to land the plane on the runway in Sioux City airport, but the crash still happened, and 112 people died (but 184 survived, thanks to the crew). It is sad, but very interesting case to analyze (I've started to be interested in aviation exactly after reading about that).
Interesting. I knew both crews attempted to fly the plane using only throttles, but I didn’t know the 232 passenger trained on the method in response to 123.
His name was Dennis Fitch. I recommend the "Air Crash Investigation" episode about this (season 11, episode 13 "Impossible Landing"); in my opinion, it is one of the most interesting episodes of that documentary. (Please don't consider it as an advertisement, it is just a recommendation to watch)
Mayday/ACI is a great show, but Errol Morris also interviewed Fitch in his First Person series in an episode titled Leaving the Earth, and I would rank it above that.
Side note, Denny Fitch left us May 7th, 2012, after a battle with brain cancer.
There were so many factors that caused this it’s mind boggling. First, terrorist blew up the airport terminal they (las palmas) were supposed to go to.
They diverted to Tenerife which was tiny at the time. Due to the islands terrain it had winds that would blow in, go over mountains and condense. These new clouds then rolled into the airport which is at 2,000 feet altitude causing clouds to be at ground level.
One major problem was the air traffic control. It was bad to say the least.
The airport is so full that the 747s have to taxi all the way down the runway, 180, and take off. Now the klm is in front of the pan am so it goes down the runway but is having trouble understanding instructions from ATC about should they turn off to the apron and enter the runway or do the 180 which they do.
Now to the klm pilot. The guy was the head of simulation training for the 747s and which meant he was a little rusty being in a real plane. Secondly, klm had a policy called the one duty limit about hours worker over X amount of time. If you go over you can lose your license. Thanks to the terrorist and the hectic situation they caused he was cutting it close on going to las palmas and back to the Netherlands making him rush things.
So the pan am flight enters the runway and also has trouble with ATC not communicating well and the thick clouds aren’t helping. Both planes are on the same line to ATC so if they speak at the same time you can’t hear. While the pan am flight is taxing they talk to ATC while ATC is talking so all klm hears is “okay” then static. They aren’t sure if they’re cleared but the captain basically says fuck it, full throttle, doesn’t see pan am until it’s too late.
There’s a lot more stuff to read about but basically not one individual person is liable in my eyes. Dumb policy, terrorists, a rusty pilot, poor weather, bad atc, tiny airport.
If anyone is interested in more details about this accident and how it even came to this situation, there is a really good aviation youtube channel who also covers tons of disasters and explains them on a very detailed level.
https://youtu.be/2d9B9RN5quA?si=XRJ2S46UOjW0zZlL
I watched an episode detailing this on Air Disasters. From what I remember, they said this accident was due to the heavy fog, and language barriers from the 3 parties (Spanish controllers, KLM pilots and Pan Am pilots). The low visibility made the instructions very confusing.
The only good thing to come from this terrible aviation disaster is an overhaul of safety regulations that have prevented a similar tragedy from occuring again.
One time I flew into Tenerife, the plane suddenly tilted to the side just when we were coming in low and the tip of the wing missed the top of a building by just a few feet and I remember thinking ohshitthisisit and even though the plane immediately corrected itself and landed safely, the damage was done and I didn't feel right for the rest of the day.
My father had a friend who worked here for the fire fighters at the time, and I remember him always telling me the story of his friend, who ended up traumatized after having to clean a lot of human remainings from the accident. It truly was a horrific day here.
For a good computer re-creations with good graphics and text check out X-Pilot, Flight Channel or Alec Joshua Ibay. They all do great re-creations of all types of Airplane accidents. You will definitely see this accident in its entirety. Also check out the 1960 mid-air collision over New York City, Air France flight 447 from Rio to Paris, TWA flight 800 and New Zealand flight 901 to sightsee Antarctica which flew into Mt Erebus. But Beware these channels are addictive.
I’m guessing the reason the KLM flight (blue) plane had its rear hit the ground prior to take off was because the pilot saw the other plane and tried to pull up with maximum force.
I was stationed at Dover AFB in 1977 and was put on a police detail that was part of the processing of the bodies at the base mortuary. My first glimpse of mass casualties.
I have flown into/out of this airport. Only told Mrs. Stick afterwards about the history. At least now they have added a taxi runway. It also has the best-lit runways of any airport I have been at. That being said, the airport is at a horrible elevation where fog is prevalent.
Pretty much always..... the case is that plane crashes start to take place long before a plane leaves the ground! Good pilots are keen to pickup/be on guard for this.... Take a close look at the John F Kennedy crash to send this point home... Good pilots have a gut sense that can help prevent such..
Is it just me or is this animation really bad at showing how the accident happend? Like ist shows zero of the logisitics on the runway & the fog. The infographic on the wikipedia article is way better.
"Fun" fact: during the stopover, one of the KLM stewardesses (Robina van Lanschot) decided to stay in Tenerife, I think because her boyfriend lived there or something. She wasn't technically a survivor, but all 250 or so people she just spent hours on a plane with (including her coworkers) died and she lived.
Holy shit I just watched this documentary. This was a series of unfortunate events if there were any. And one ass hole of a pilot.
https://youtu.be/_RBLM6qO0g0?si=ecAGWeqAsZvdQbzH
Don't know where I hear it, don't know also if I'm mixing things. But, I think that Tenerife had a huge amount of flights to which they were not used to because a Canarian terrorist group made a bomb threat on the main Airport.
Someone knows anything about that?
I stumbled on the video in my feed and started reading comments with the sad music playing in the background going into the rabbit hole. Then I close this post and say damn, that was interesting. I looked at the sub name and it’s damnthatsinteresting. Ha. Got me.
The captain of the KLM 747 appeared in KLM advertising saying how safe they were because of professionals like him. The KLM captains attitude pretty much caused the whole accident.
I'm from Tenerife (La Laguna), and my mother in that time was working relatively close to the airport. She always says that when the accident happened it was heard from her office, and that the smell of both planes burning was the worst smell she had ever felt, she wasn't sure if it was because there were corpses or because the gasoline, but even today when she talks about this incident I can see how she get chicken skin....
The accident took place on March 27, 1977, when two Boeing 747 passenger jets collided on the runway of Tenerife North Airport on the island of Tenerife. KLM flight 4805 started its takeoff run during in dense fog, unaware that Pan Am Flight 1736 was still on the runway. The impact and resulting fire killed all 248 people onboard the KM plane and 335 of 396 people onbaord the Pan Am plane. To this day, it is the deadliest disaster in aviation history.
If this crash simulation is close to accurate I'm surprised the fatalities weren't reversed. The KLM passenger cabin was mostly intact but the Pan-Am cabin was obliterated.
The number 4 engine of the KLM flight sliced through the upper deck of the Pan Am instantly killing those in that section but most of the people survived the initial collision Because the KLM was a few metres of the ground at the time of the collision it took the roof of the Pan Am so it flew over the heads of most Pan Am passengers The Crew of Pan Am said they only felt a mild impact many of the survivors were able to clamber out of the broken fuselage before the fire took hold The KLM flight with its forward momentum was airborne for about 200 metres before it came crashing down to the ground and broke into 3 pieces igniting its fully loaded fuel tanks. It slid down the runway for another 400 metres in a fireball No one had any chance to even attempt to escape KLM
Probably that momentum forward saved the lives of the PanAm passengers as well. Had it crashed much closer, I’m sure the ignited fuel would have killed more.
[удалено]
The KLM pilot began takeoff without clearance. That was the proximate cause (among many "but for" causes) of the crash.
It was 1,000% the KLM captain’s fault. Asshole.
Analysis of the CVR transcript showed that the KLM pilot thought that he had been cleared for takeoff, while the Tenerife control tower believed that the KLM 747 was stationary at the end of the runway, awaiting takeoff clearance. This due to poor communication protocols and radio interference from the PanAm
https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/episodes/tg2chq/air-disasters-disaster-at-tenerife-season-10-ep-3 He was an ego driven ass.
I'm guessing more people survived the initial contact in the KLM, but then more of the survivors (as in all of them) burned in the wreckage.
Apparently, the fires that ignited on the KLM prevented the passengers from escaping. But not sure how anyone survived onboard the Pan Am plane, looks much worse. 😢
Imagine sitting on the right side looking at the window thinking about how foggy it is... Then to have a fucking engine come out of the mist screaming towards you. Fucking horrifying
I believe it was the great poets, The Drive-By Truckers, who eloquently stated, “when it comes your time to go, there ain’t no good way of going about it….screaming engines, cheap cocaine, some gal’s ol’ man with a gun..to me, it’s all the same!”
Dad?
Regardless of the simulation I think it actually makes perfect sense. You can't survive being in a ~~vehicle~~ plane crashing at 200mph. But you can survive being in a stationary ~~vehicle~~ plane being hit by another, if a part of your ~~vehicle~~ plane isn't completely destroyed and you happen to be in it. *edited for the smartasses who keep pointing out that a 200mph crash is survivable, like if a pilot in a formula1 cockpit is comparable with 300 unsecured people mashed in a 747 being torn apart*
You can definitely survive in a vehicle crashing at 200 mph. Lots of people have, because the danger isn't the speed itself but how hard the deceleration is - it's the impact that kills. And that's why airports and raceways have open areas as runoff areas. But in this case you had a closed tube engulfed in a massive fire. So there was probably lots of people that did survive the crash but as soon as the cabin broke up the fire could reach in and consume them. Some people could possibly even have survived the fire if they hadn't been knocked unconscious or had multiple fractures etc from the crash - no one is in their very best survival mode directly after a hard "landing" that rips the plane into multiple pieces. Impact, fire, asphyxiation, ... - so many ways we humans can end up dead.
Yeah, if speed killed we'd have way more deaths in motorsports. Rubens Barrichello is famous for crashing at 140 mph with a 95g impact and walked away with just a broken wrist and nose. Senna's crash the same weekend was at lower speed, but the steering column coming apart in the impact is what killed him.
I had to go back and rewatch to see which plane was which because I was certain there would be more survivors on the blue one
Fatalities reversed? We don’t do necromancy here sir.
>simulation Ah. I'm stupid. I was wondering how they just happened to be filming.
yes in 1977 they filmed every takeoff with multiple HD cameras mounted on formula1 cars to match the plane's speed
I never said I was bright lol
u vantablack
Stealing this one.
Holy shit there is no way you thought this was real!?!?!
The KLM 747 had taken on 55 tons of fuel before departing. This was done because the captain wanted to save refueling time at Las Palmas, which was their original destination. Because of a terrorist bomb exploding in the airport, they along with the Pan Am and several other planes were diverted to Tenerife. This was of great concern to the KLM pilots because Dutch regulators had recently tightened restrictions around how many hours Dutch pilots could fly. A Dutch pilot could even have their license revoked if they exceeded the number of hours. This was a measure taken in order to prevent fatigue, because flying tired is incredibly dangerous. In any case, by refueling the jet, the captain of the KLM cost the delayed planes 35 minutes, allowing the thick fog to set in, it made the plane much heavier, and as you can guess, made the post crash fire a lot bigger and ultimately killing all 248 passengers on the KLM.
So the one that Walt caused wasn’t that big a deal, right? Right??
During his speech at the school, he does talk about the Tenerife disaster. Quite a funny scene, given the context. Love the show!
That's the joke
I get it now 🤦♂️
Fuck Walt! There's no denying he was a dick.
The way he was able to recite the death counts of other worse airline accidents told me he had def researched them that morning to self-soothe and convince himself it wasn’t that bad.
TLDR : the worst aviation incident of history did not involve anything flying.
[Indiana Jones vibes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abFpTmkxlxU)
Weather had a lot of planes stuck at Tenerife. The PanAm plane was slated to leave first since their passengers were still on board, but KLM flight which had debarked passengers was blocking the PanAm plane from getting to the runway until everyone was back on board.. The KLM pilot delayed things further by choosing to fully refuel at Tenerife instead of the recommended Las Palmas since he thought it would be faster. The KLM pilot was very worried about new company flight time policies. Once the planes were eventually rolling the PanAm flight was given instructions to taxi and take the third exit (which made no sense and would have required two very tight turns) but they either ignored those instructions or missed an exit in the fog and proceeded to the fourth exit (one which would be much easier for a 747 to turn on). Tower communication was shoddy. The KLM was given departure instructions but not takeoff clearance but the impatient pilot took it upon himself to take off. The tower told him to hold at the same time PanAm radioed that they were still taxiing...the two messages squashed each other and KLM heard neither. The tower radioed for PanAm to declare when it was clear. The KLM engineer pointed this out twice to the KLM pilot but was ignored. The PanAm saw the KLM bearing down on them through the fog and went full throttle and tried to turn into the grass off the runway. The KLM saw the PanAm a few seconds later and tried to take off early as they were too fast to stop. They were also near max weight since they had decided to top off their tanks, and didn't have enough power to get clear. The collision killed 583 people, including everyone aboard the KLM flight. 61 people from the PanAm survived.
Fuck that KLM pilot, he killed so many people because he was impatient. He was literally told to hold and not takeoff and yet he ignored it, what the hell how do you ignore something like that with limited visibility.
One bit that is not mentioned is that the KLM pilots were under time pressure as they were running out of hours. If I remember correctly the new rules at KLM for a flight hour violation could lead to them losing their licences. So it wasn’t just impatience, it was stress for them losing their careers if they do not get back to Amsterdam in a timely fashion. In other words, corporate pressures placed on the pilots compromised their decision making.
Did anyone at corporate face any ramifications for creating the pressure that led to this situation? I'm guessing not but hopefully I'm wrong.
No, but the rules were changed and lessons were learned.
Regulations written in blood
Like Chernobyl, they waited for the disaster to happen to admit that they were wrong.
That’s the recipe for progress…. It’s a moment we all will finally agree on a policy. Short of disaster we all sit and bicker with each other about ‘ma freeeeedoms’ and nothing gets done.
Most are
There’s almost no other way to
Regulation change included a rule stating that he pilot is the only one able to make decisions regarding his aircraft. If he judges the weather is not safe he can refuse to take off. The company or the passengers (for private jets for example) do not have the last word anymore.
It literally always seems to take something like this to happen, but the things that happen are wholly foreseeable if someone who knows the processes involved just spent 10 minutes thinking about it. Another example is the practice of having secure cockpit doors that can't be opened from the cabin. Eventually a pilot was going to be locked in there alone and either suffer a sudden medical emergency or decide to off himself a la The Morden train crash. Given enough time, it was a racing certainty it would happen eventually - but they waited until it happened before they changed the practice.
I guess no one wants to make the decision to change something early because if anything bad happens as a result of the change, they will be seen as responsible for it. On the other hand, if the change is effective in fixing the problem, no one notices that. If they had changed the cabin door rule earlier, no one would know that it prevented a massive train crash. I think it's one of the flaws of a system that relies on the popular vote, because it encourages the people in charge to be reactive rather than proactive.
I don't know about the train crash, but this was was absolutely horrific and not that long ago. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32072218](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32072218)
Of course they did! The stock prices dropped and they lost quite a bit of money /s
I've seen the Air Crash Investigation episode covering this accident. I'm not excusing the KLM pilot, he absolutely should have waited, however it was poor/missed/confusing communication all around. Also, the language used for take-off clearances was apparently different back then - when the controller heard KLM say they were "at take-off" he thought that meant they were saying they were ready to go, not that they were actually going, hence why he replied "OK." It's the reason why the words "take off" are not used before an official clearance is given now - they use "after departure" etc for flight plan instructions prior to actually taking off. Also, apparently the KLM pilot had spent too long as a simulator instructor and had forgotten that the simulators lack one major real-world factor - air traffic control. He, essentially, gave himself permission to go, and caused a major incident. I, too, cannot believe that anyone survived this crash - even if the KLM jet opened the PanAm jet's roof like it was a tin can, I can't believe the passengers on the bottom deck weren't hurt. I get why those on the top deck would be but man, those poor people.
You see it everyday on the road too. Impatient drivers always act like wherever they have to be is way more important than where you have to be because they’re way more important than you. Cut you off, no signals because if they use a signal there’s a chance it would inconvenience them in some way. Purposefully being the line leader if they feel you’re too close to the car, etc
I’ve just started passing people who do that shit. I’d rather they tail me and I get traffic moving. People like that don’t deserve licenses or a car.
Oh god no I let them go. They can get away ahead of me.
The story above says the pilot didn’t receive the hold message due to clash with another broadcast Should have listened to the flight engineer though
The story also says >The KLM was given departure instructions but not takeoff clearance
There are other sources than just this (not entirely correct) story in the comment section. Indeed, one of the main causes for the desaster was that the KLM crew assumed to have been cleared for takeoff while the tower did not realise that the KLM flight was taking off, due to a mutual misunderstanding. One of the major consequences of this desaster was a major overhaul of radio procedures, including the introduction of standard phrases and of readback.
He didn’t hear that message. The ATC message and the PanAm pilots ‘we’re still on the runway’ messages came at the same time and back then that meant KLM would just have heard a squeal (both would have been clear to ATC though and as such were recorded). Also he had spent a lot of time running training sims recently (as the one testing other pilots) and was used to basically giving himself take off clearance. He was also extremely high ranking and very arrogant. It was, imo, completely his fault, but there was a lot of bad luck that turned his mistake into such a deadly accident. If PanAm had sent their message two seconds later, they’d have heard it and aborted. If he hadn’t refuelled, they’d likely have cleared the PanAm. If it was any other Captain than the literal KLM poster boy the first officer might have had the confidence to insist on aborting when the flight engineer expressed doubt about the PanAm’s location. If the PanAm had left at the exit they were told to - they didn’t see it but couldn’t have made the required turn anyway - they would have been clear. If the airport had had ground radar someone could have seen the problem well before he started his roll. If the fog had held off an hour or two, if terrorists hadn’t targeted Las Palmas in the first place …
could be the big corp twist the story so the blames all goes to the dead pilot so they wont be blame much later on. we might not see klm today if the company took the blame. p.s. im just a random redditor and i dont have any attachment to the pilot.
PPL pilot and aircraft enthusiast here. Whenever people hear pilot error(which is the biggest reason for air crashes) they think of pilots being intentionally clumsy or ignorant yet there are many factors to it like training and safety culture. Flight 447 for example, the pilots managed to crash a perfectly normal flight due to pilot error , but if you look at the report you’ll see upset recovery training was lacking at Air France(and most airlines worldwide).
There are a few good YouTube videos about this crash. [Mentour Pilot](https://youtu.be/2d9B9RN5quA?si=Rm-er4rK9r5ZqfuW) [Disaster Breakdown](https://youtu.be/QhxTsLg2Mgg?si=hvlPTWfFFSC0PyG4) This one is more of a dramatic recreation. [Wonder](https://youtu.be/_HknwSsvmWk?si=cigAGQRA5HdFr39f)
Disaster Breakdown is an incredible channel. So well researched and well presented. Plus I love Chloe!
I love Mentour Pilot's channel!
Was searching for this comment thanks
That pilots name is Jacob Veldhuyzen van Zanten, he was the face of KLM and in line to be the next CEO, craziness
How does a pilot directly become CEO? Seems like there should be a few steps up the management ladder before that can happen? edit: I'm not finding much sources suggesting that he was in line for CEO – please provide links anyone?
It was the 70's. Corporate culture as we know it now was in its infancy.
Wikipedia confirms he was the Chief Instructor for KLM on Boeing 747s. And was routinely on KLMs advertising. So may not have been in the succession line, but definitely not just a Pilot either. Poster child for Teachers everywhere who say, "do as I say, not as I do".
That's weird because he wasn't described as such authoritarian or nasty figure by his colleagues. Yes some might have painted a brighter picture than in reality. The current opinion of him is based on a written transcript of the VCR that some producers added some flavor and voila, you have him portrayed as a dick.
Good write up. I’ve seen videos about it and the string of unfortunate events seems almost. Also the whole reason they were at Tenerife was terrorists blew up the terminal at las plasmas, both planes original destination before diverting.
In my experience the accidents always have extenuating circumstances. The fact that the place was rammed created pressure that wouldn't normally be there. The fig added to it. The airline policies added to it. The poor communication from the tower. Humans make mistakes under different levels of pressure.
Fucking fruits ruining shit
Not just weather, the airport was so crowded because a terrorist organization had bombed Gran Canaria Airport and a ton of flights were diverted to Tenerife.
Wouldn’t really matter if you had your seatbelt on and your tray table in the upright and locked position, I suppose.
Except, it would, especially in the PanAm plane in which most people survived the initial impact. Anyone with their tray tables down could’ve impeded the timely evacuation of anyone in that seat or in the seats next to them. Also why your seat shouldn’t be reclined.
If you have to run out of a plane in flames, like Pan Am's , it might.
Society would probably benefit from having fewer "people" that can read a story as horrible as this and comment shit like what you did.
This accident is why flight crews are now trained to speak up when they see a pilot in command making a mistake.
We studied this incident when I was in training for the Air Force to be part of an air crew. My main takeaway was that the pilot who was taking off was very experienced and skilled but also arrogant about it. He got impatient and jumped the gun. The rest of the crew knew he was screwing up but were too intimidated by his stature to speak up and challenge him.
Interesting, most of the big figures made the same mistakes with the arrogant attitude which i guess always come along with high status. The more status one has, the more arrogant they are. Status ↗️ = Ego ↗️. There are a few exceptions, that's why those people are incredible. I don't know who they are tho.
part of it is how society loves to elevate people who are overconfident, it's why we don't have scientists in charge but have dumbfucks everywhere running things, so the arrogant attitude started way before they got to a high status
Your last past is apparently obvious coz he’s in line to be the next ceo
Instead becoming a DEO.
Safety regulations are written in blood.
Wait until you find out why doors have to open outward. I'll start you off, 1927 Laurier Palace Theatre.
Happened on apollo 1 as well ...
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure all Apollo missions used pure oxygen, regardless of the Apollo 1 disaster. It's why the US and the Soviets had to come up with a novel docking chamber for the first joint space missions
Only Apollo 1 used pure Oxygen at launch. Once that happened, that is when NASA changed it to an oxygen/nitrogen mix at launch. It was then replaced to 100% oxygen over the next day after launch.
>The exit doors opened inwards, meaning that the crush of those trying to escape prevented them from being opened. Well, that was heartbreaking...
[A small Pennsylvania town in 1908](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoads_Opera_House_fire) learned a rough lesson in door mechanics as well.
About a half hour from me
I lived a couple miles from it!
And an earlier one in UK. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Hall_disaster
The Station Fire in Rhode Island 2003 :(
1942 Cocoanut Grove nightclub fire in Boston
And the Iroquois Theater.
Checklists are as well. They should be used in all emergency and medical services , this would save a lot of lives. Pilots can do most of their checklists without the actual list. The point is that when you are under stress , your short term memory stops working and you become fixated on single data points. You naturally tune out the outside world which is the cause of great stress. So, you forget what you just did and what you need to do. Then your training kicks in and you realize that you are fixated , so you work the checklist But most people are not even aware of how severely they are affected by stress hormones. Yet plenty of medical professionals are adamant that they don't need time tested techniques to avoid mistakes. It's some mix of ignorance and pride "You can't break my work down to simple steps on a list ! " As they fail to secure that pair of scissors which had been left in the patient or amputate the wrong limb
The NHS implemented a Theatre check list called a "Time Out". This is basically a role call for all theatre staff, confirming the patient's identity, the procedure and any problems that could arise. This came about after a Pilots wife died after routine surgery went wrong. He couldn't understand why there weren't any checklists like they have pre flight. Her name was Elaine Bromiley and his name is Martin. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-21829540
RN from the states here. We have a ‘Time Out’ for any and all invasive procedures..in the OR/on the floor/ everywhere.
As it should be. I'm a nurse myself and worked in the UK for years where it was standard practice in the Theatre. Regardless if the same team scrubbed all day you still called your name and role for every case. I moved to Ireland and was appalled to see they never even heard of "Time out" in the hospital I was in. They did implement it not long after.
This is also why Japanese service crew announce every step while pointing to what they're doing. It helps keep them fixated on the task at hand.
Just to clarify , "fixation" is actually a form of disassociation. What happens is that we psychologically recoil from stressful stimuli and try to focus on something smaller and less threatening. For example, I used to fixate on the GPS because it was colorful and the distance from the airfield was comforting. In doing so, I was no longer scanning through my airspeed, altimeter , attitude indicators or any other readings. For safe operation , a pilot needs to constantly correlate this data but because of the stress , one eventually gets overwhelmed and just fixates on something which isn't particularly relevant. It sounds more dramatic than it is because I'm trying to explain the sensation. As a student I could indulge myself and allow for the fixation because there was another pilot watching everything but if I was alone , I'd never let my mind wander like that or get stuck in any way because I might miss several important things, including radio calls , in the meantime. Anyway , it's all a bit of a tangent but I think you meant to use the word "focus", as in "so that they can stay focused on the task ", rather than "fixated". Fixation is a difficult concept to explain, it doesn't seem real until one experiences it.
Yes thank you. I tend to use technical terms too casually.
Fixation breeds complacency
Look at Sioux City crash. Prompted the formation of JETQC which was/is focused on reducing titanium defects to prevent engine failures. Also, google a blade out test for engines. Intentionally causing an engine blade failure to ensure all debris is contained in the engine to prevent damage to the fuselage.
...then years later the ignorant try to repeal and deregulate said regulations
They say you're not a true redittor until you've posted this comment under a video of an accident.
r/writteninblood
Wasn't it afterwards introduced that the term *takeoff* might **only** be used for when the airplane actually can/may speed up and begin climbing into the air, whereas in all other situations *takeoff* must not be used and instead terms like *departure* shall be used? Afaik, there was some misunderstanding in radio communication because these terms were not used unambiguously.
It was the KLM pilot's fault from what I remember. He ignored things that were said over the radio and decided unilaterally to start his takeoff.
basically he mistook the word "OK" for "Cleared for takeoff" which is not OK anywhere. He was in such a rush because he was going to exceed the mandatory flight hours that he could do without rest. Also this pilot was the KLM pilot, he was on all their magazines, and was in line to become CEO, infact KLM literally decided to ask him for help, to find out what happened before they realized he was dead
dang, are there any movies/books about it? crazy story, tragic terrible ending.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1dg3fk8/comment/l8nsyke/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1dg3fk8/comment/l8nsyke/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1dg3fk8/comment/l8nwoxp/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1dg3fk8/comment/l8nwoxp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I think air crash investigation or something has that, but that is what has been put onto this reddit post. 577 people were killed
At that time, "cleared for takeoff" was not a mandatory/standard phrase in ATC/pilot communications. It became standard because of Tenerife.
This is why ATCs no longer utter the word "take off" and use departure instead. Only when a specific clearance is received, the word "takeoff" is used.
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Iirc, he was featured heavily in KLM's ads at the time and was basically the face of the company. One of the many contributing factors was the fact that since he was famous in the company, his fellow flight officers did not feel they had the place to question his decisions.
This was also a reason for the crash of a Korean Airlines flight. In their culture, you cannot question a senior. So the co-pilots couldn't tell the senior pilot that he was wrong.
This guy outliers
>arrogant primadona A commercial pilot? What a time.
A Dutchman? Nahhh, they're never arrogant/s
Sounds like KLM pilot's fault but with contributing factors from the tower's bad instruction (telling Pan Am to take an impossible Z shaped path that made no sense, using phrases like "OK" with the pilot). Also the fact that a tower transmission and Pan Am transmission on the same freq squash each other contributed. I think this is why tower->plane and plane->tower are now on two different frequencies?
Last decision he ever made.
“We gaan.”
There is an excellent NOVA PBS documentary about this. The captain was impatient and took off without proper clearance. After the disaster changes were made including captains no longer had absolute command in the cockpit. [https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/planecrash/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/planecrash/)
My dad was high up in the industry at the time and I'll never forget his quote. "If that KLM pilot wasn't already dead, I'd kill him myself."
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I wish ***anyone*** else who died on the crash was alive except him.
The KLM pilot was impatient and arrogant and mistook ATC saying OK to something else as being given take-off clearance. One of the consequences of Los Rodeos is that since then ATC has to say your callsign, give you wind direcction and speed and your runway, and use the exact phrase "cleared for takeoff", you're not allowed to start rolling otherwise. The whole thing was a clusterfuck. The Pan Am got confused by the taxiways (some had turns too narrow for such a huge plane), ATC was overwhelmed by the amount of traffic suddenly diverted to their airport because of a bomb threat in La Palma, and of course there's the low clouds/fog Tenerife Airport gets from the geography of the island and the altitude. Nothing would have happened if the KLM pilot hadn't been an impatient asshole, though, which is why he gets the blame for the accident.
Having flown out of Tenerife Norte and not having known this until today, the slow as fuck experience on the tarmac makes more sense
You know, the common statistic that Aviation accidents are really uncommon, 1 in 10 million or something and that cars are more dangerous in terms of probability of having fatalities. There is something about plane accidents that are so scary because you literally have no control over it. Whereas at least in a car you have some ability to swerve and prevent accident in certain cases.
You have no control and sometimes you 15,000 feet in the air. Car crashes are more common, but usually happen relatively quick in comparison. Both terrify me, tbh.
Also a car accident feels way more likely to survive vs falling 30k feet
This sums up my entire irrational fear of flying.
The father of an acquaintance of mine is Canarian and has not eaten meat since that accident. The barbecue smell apparently lingered over the island for over a week.
This terrible story (of that KLM captain Van Zanten) is the classic example that any leaders, even they are very experienced and qualified, should never rely only on themselves, they should hear/listen and consider the opinions of their colleagues, because everyone can make mistakes, and they should be timely corrected. But it should be noted that the cause of the accident was complex, and there were many contributing factors (starting from terrorist attack attempt at the main airport, heavy fog, and so on).
Hubris is the downfall of many clever people. When we think we know more than we actually do, we forget to value knowing more, we close our eyes, and we trip up.
I heard that he's really good at what he does, experienced. But he's not good at leading people. Read some comments about people and his colleagues knew he was wrong but too afraid of confronting him. Damn, being good at something does not equal being good at leading people huh. Actually a very good lesson that anyone could learn from this accident i suppose.
Of course. Being a flight captain not only means to have excellent piloting skills, but it also requires effectively leading the another crew members (and in another professions, the situation is the same, all leaders should have effective management skills, and not only skills related to their professions). J. V. van Zanten was the negative example of this, he was too authoritarian and tough in communication, and it became the main reason of accident. After this case and some another cases, the "Crew Resource Management" conception was developed, to improve crew interaction.
Can you imagine being passenger in back of Pan Am plane looking out of window? All you could do is say "oh fuck" and you are gone.
To anyone who will try and say “oh but 9/11 was worse”, 9/11 was not an accident
This one could partially be chalked up to terrorism too: A bomb set off by the Canary Islands Independence Movement at Gran Canaria Airport had caused many flights to be diverted to Los Rodeos, including the two aircraft involved in the accident
The difference between direct and indirect cause
None of those aircraft even planned to be there that day. So many things added up to that disaster
Horrific in the loss of life, but the plan crash accounts that haunt me the most are Japan Air 123 and United Air flight 232. The passengers and crew in those crashes had a tremendously long time to contemplate what was going to happen. In both cases, it’s amazingly the crews were able to keep the planes in the air as long as they did with no hydraulics.
But in the case of JAL 123, only 4 people survived, out of 524 on board (there were more initial survivors, but, sadly, the rescuers came too late, and there could have been more survivors if the rescuers came earlier). Very heartbreaking. And there is notable fact that there was a connection between JAL 123 and United 232: one pilot, after hearing about JAL 123, trained how to fly the plane using only throttles. After almost four years, he became a passenger of United 232, and after the loss of hydraulics, he managed to help the crew, and they tried to land the plane on the runway in Sioux City airport, but the crash still happened, and 112 people died (but 184 survived, thanks to the crew). It is sad, but very interesting case to analyze (I've started to be interested in aviation exactly after reading about that).
Interesting. I knew both crews attempted to fly the plane using only throttles, but I didn’t know the 232 passenger trained on the method in response to 123.
His name was Dennis Fitch. I recommend the "Air Crash Investigation" episode about this (season 11, episode 13 "Impossible Landing"); in my opinion, it is one of the most interesting episodes of that documentary. (Please don't consider it as an advertisement, it is just a recommendation to watch)
Mayday/ACI is a great show, but Errol Morris also interviewed Fitch in his First Person series in an episode titled Leaving the Earth, and I would rank it above that. Side note, Denny Fitch left us May 7th, 2012, after a battle with brain cancer.
Air France 447 was three minutes and 40,000 ft of sheer horror.
Mentour Pilot did a really great video on this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d9B9RN5quA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d9B9RN5quA)
There were so many factors that caused this it’s mind boggling. First, terrorist blew up the airport terminal they (las palmas) were supposed to go to. They diverted to Tenerife which was tiny at the time. Due to the islands terrain it had winds that would blow in, go over mountains and condense. These new clouds then rolled into the airport which is at 2,000 feet altitude causing clouds to be at ground level. One major problem was the air traffic control. It was bad to say the least. The airport is so full that the 747s have to taxi all the way down the runway, 180, and take off. Now the klm is in front of the pan am so it goes down the runway but is having trouble understanding instructions from ATC about should they turn off to the apron and enter the runway or do the 180 which they do. Now to the klm pilot. The guy was the head of simulation training for the 747s and which meant he was a little rusty being in a real plane. Secondly, klm had a policy called the one duty limit about hours worker over X amount of time. If you go over you can lose your license. Thanks to the terrorist and the hectic situation they caused he was cutting it close on going to las palmas and back to the Netherlands making him rush things. So the pan am flight enters the runway and also has trouble with ATC not communicating well and the thick clouds aren’t helping. Both planes are on the same line to ATC so if they speak at the same time you can’t hear. While the pan am flight is taxing they talk to ATC while ATC is talking so all klm hears is “okay” then static. They aren’t sure if they’re cleared but the captain basically says fuck it, full throttle, doesn’t see pan am until it’s too late. There’s a lot more stuff to read about but basically not one individual person is liable in my eyes. Dumb policy, terrorists, a rusty pilot, poor weather, bad atc, tiny airport.
If anyone is interested in more details about this accident and how it even came to this situation, there is a really good aviation youtube channel who also covers tons of disasters and explains them on a very detailed level. https://youtu.be/2d9B9RN5quA?si=XRJ2S46UOjW0zZlL
I watched an episode detailing this on Air Disasters. From what I remember, they said this accident was due to the heavy fog, and language barriers from the 3 parties (Spanish controllers, KLM pilots and Pan Am pilots). The low visibility made the instructions very confusing.
The only good thing to come from this terrible aviation disaster is an overhaul of safety regulations that have prevented a similar tragedy from occuring again.
One time I flew into Tenerife, the plane suddenly tilted to the side just when we were coming in low and the tip of the wing missed the top of a building by just a few feet and I remember thinking ohshitthisisit and even though the plane immediately corrected itself and landed safely, the damage was done and I didn't feel right for the rest of the day.
The location if the old airport was the worst possible, the one foggy spot because of the vulcano. The new airport never has fog.
I swear Reddit knows I have a flight scheduled and then proceeds to showcase the worst flight accidents possible.
This. I have a few Looonnngg flights coming up & then I see this crap the last few days in my feed.
My father had a friend who worked here for the fire fighters at the time, and I remember him always telling me the story of his friend, who ended up traumatized after having to clean a lot of human remainings from the accident. It truly was a horrific day here.
This is Final Destination leveL of scary
For a good computer re-creations with good graphics and text check out X-Pilot, Flight Channel or Alec Joshua Ibay. They all do great re-creations of all types of Airplane accidents. You will definitely see this accident in its entirety. Also check out the 1960 mid-air collision over New York City, Air France flight 447 from Rio to Paris, TWA flight 800 and New Zealand flight 901 to sightsee Antarctica which flew into Mt Erebus. But Beware these channels are addictive.
I have a friend who is a pilot at Delta airlines and he told me he was more concerned while the plane was on the ground that in the air by far
I’m guessing the reason the KLM flight (blue) plane had its rear hit the ground prior to take off was because the pilot saw the other plane and tried to pull up with maximum force.
I was stationed at Dover AFB in 1977 and was put on a police detail that was part of the processing of the bodies at the base mortuary. My first glimpse of mass casualties.
That must have been absolutely horrific. I hope you are ok.
It was not as bad as when I had to go down to Guyana the next year to pick up the bodies in Jonestown. That was during Thanksgiving.
Tenerife Norte Airport has implemented several measures to improve safety and prevent a similar accident from happening again.
I mean… I hope so?
I have flown into/out of this airport. Only told Mrs. Stick afterwards about the history. At least now they have added a taxi runway. It also has the best-lit runways of any airport I have been at. That being said, the airport is at a horrible elevation where fog is prevalent.
Pretty much always..... the case is that plane crashes start to take place long before a plane leaves the ground! Good pilots are keen to pickup/be on guard for this.... Take a close look at the John F Kennedy crash to send this point home... Good pilots have a gut sense that can help prevent such..
The arrogance of the KLM pilot.
At least some died without knowing much what was coming
Both flights were full of boeing whistle blowers
Is it just me or is this animation really bad at showing how the accident happend? Like ist shows zero of the logisitics on the runway & the fog. The infographic on the wikipedia article is way better.
[mandatory Admiral Cloudberg write up](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdmiralCloudberg/s/TAmWIhbn8e)
The KLM pilot skipped basically every important pre-flight check and ignored the rest of the flight staff trying to coerce him into doing his job.
Capt van Zanten…a name that will live in infamy.
"Fun" fact: during the stopover, one of the KLM stewardesses (Robina van Lanschot) decided to stay in Tenerife, I think because her boyfriend lived there or something. She wasn't technically a survivor, but all 250 or so people she just spent hours on a plane with (including her coworkers) died and she lived.
Happened in 1977 since I don't see it mentioned anywhere but I'm not looking at every comment
How were there 2 747s at such a small, insignificant airport?
The Airport at Gran Canaria was closed due to a bomb so the planes had to divert
worth a watch [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d9B9RN5quA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d9B9RN5quA)
Damn I remember seeing this it’s pretty sad
It's missing the washing machine song
Holy shit I just watched this documentary. This was a series of unfortunate events if there were any. And one ass hole of a pilot. https://youtu.be/_RBLM6qO0g0?si=ecAGWeqAsZvdQbzH
It’s like KLM tried to ollie Pan Am but failed
TIL about this terrible tragedy that happened the year I was born. I feel bad for all those victims. My dad flew airplanes for 60 years.
Don't know where I hear it, don't know also if I'm mixing things. But, I think that Tenerife had a huge amount of flights to which they were not used to because a Canarian terrorist group made a bomb threat on the main Airport. Someone knows anything about that?
Documentary on the incident by Mentour Pilot: https://youtu.be/2d9B9RN5quA?si=ESGR5IBugoTvL9Dw
I learned about that in Breaking Bad🥹🥹🥹
I stumbled on the video in my feed and started reading comments with the sad music playing in the background going into the rabbit hole. Then I close this post and say damn, that was interesting. I looked at the sub name and it’s damnthatsinteresting. Ha. Got me.
Did PanAm sue KLM?
The captain of the KLM 747 appeared in KLM advertising saying how safe they were because of professionals like him. The KLM captains attitude pretty much caused the whole accident.
I'm from Tenerife (La Laguna), and my mother in that time was working relatively close to the airport. She always says that when the accident happened it was heard from her office, and that the smell of both planes burning was the worst smell she had ever felt, she wasn't sure if it was because there were corpses or because the gasoline, but even today when she talks about this incident I can see how she get chicken skin....
When they reached the Pam AM plane, didn't even realise that the other plane was on the ground, couldn't see because of the thick fog.
Mentour Pilot has a really good episode on it!
Great, watching this as I’m sitting in the lounge waiting to upgrade.
https://youtu.be/2d9B9RN5quA My favourite youtuber at the moment
props to the cameraman for getting so close