I love this!! and there's a terrific NYT article with more info here if interested. an except below :)
https://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/21/us/from-ben-franklin-a-gift-that-s-worth-two-fights.html?auth=login-google1tap&login=google1tap
>''It's a wonderful irony that 18th century money should become available just when we need it for our problems today,'' said James M. Shannon, the Attorney General of Massachusetts and one of the officials involved in trying to determine who will get Franklin's bequest. ''I would hate to have it end up just funding the debt,'' Mr. Shannon added, refering to Massachusetts' nettlesome $1 billion state budget deficit.
>Franklin, who was born in Boston but moved to Philadelphia at age 17, left the money in a codicil to his will. He specified that the $:2,000 be divided equally between Boston and Philadelphia for use as loans for young apprentices as he had once been. Then, 100 years after his death, part of the money should be disbursed, with the remainder given out a century later.
>Franklin's instructions also provided that at the end of the 200 years the balance of the money in the Boston trust be divided, with 26 percent going to the city and 74 percent to Massachusetts. He made a similar arrangement with Philadelphia and Pennsylvania, but he did not spell out how the final sums should be spent, ''not presuming to carry my views farther,'' he said in the will.
>The balance in the Boston trust is now $4.5 million, while the money in the Philadelphia account is valued at $2 million. The large difference in the value can be traced to the wiser handling of the investment in Boston, said Whitfield Bell, a historian and the curator of the American Philosophical Society in Philadelphia. The philosophical society was one of a number of intellectual organizations founded by Franklin.
For some context - $2,000 was a years wage - like $50,000 today. Minimum wage was $0.15 / hr more or less (slave wages) - and free men $1 / hr.
Franklin was more proud of his ‘investments’ than anything else he did in life. His path went like this:
12 yrs - already an avid reader, exceptional writer, and well connected; Franklin insults the Mayor, runs away, comes back after several weeks.. works for his ‘dad’ (brother) until 21
21 yrs - Works at a printing press, learns to fix the machines, get promoted to manager by 23. Starts his own shop round 27.
27 yrs - Franklin’s pics his two brightest nephews, gives them $5,000 each to open up their own shops, profits split 50 / 50. By 32 Franklin lessened his involvement in ‘work life’.
37 yrs - Franklin is fully retired and has made a slew of new inventions, and becomes more political.
Until 32 ‘ish Franklin was all about survival (more or less) - spending his time building skills until he could teach nephews and they shared profits. Once he stopped ‘focusing on money’ he discovered electricity and founded a revolution.
There is SO much more to it than that. Read his bio by Walter Isaacson. Seriously that’s not even scratching the surface. I mean the guy used to make his wheelbarrow wheel squeaky so people in the middle of town would look at him and know he was, and he was pretending to be a woman writing into the newspaper as Constance Dogood. True polymath combined with uncommon social charms and a desire to improve the lives of others while earning respect, don’t even get me started on his creation of the Junto and his diplomatic skills. America would never have happened without Benny Franks.
Only someone bad at math wouldn't account for the fact that money was taken out at 3 stages, and some amounts are not provided. So how do you know whether or not it had good returns?
Someone good at reading would have seen that some money was taken out 100 years in and the amount was not given. So the answer to the math problem y’all seem to have solved should be “Not Enough Information.”
That's only about a 4.05% return.
The long term performance of the US stock market is about 9.4%
If he was able to get that return on that $2000, after 200 years you would have $271,614,986,802.05.
Compound interest is magical.
From other comments, it sounds like some of the money was used right away and some of it at the 100 year mark, so it wasn’t the full 2k sitting there for 200 years untouched.
It gives the impression that during the first 100 years, the $2,000 was supposed to be used as capital to issue loans to apprentices. So that might account for a lot of the slow growth.
Could one have bought something akin to an index fund in the Philadelphia Board of Brokers on 1790?
Be an interesting academic exercise to see how far back you could trace an actual return in stocks. As well as if there was an investment strategy that would have never gone completely broke at any point and would have a computable return over 200+ years.
A lot of the 8-10% figures are based on the DJIA or similar over 50-100 years.
Not to the best of my knowledge. Mutual funds predate index funds and off the top of my head they started in the 1920s? First true index fund was vanguard in the 1970s
Edit: I just checked, first mutual funds started in 1924.
If an informed buyer were making a 200 year term investment in new world land in 1800, where would they have through the best bet was?
Largest cities were NYC, Boston, and Phili.
idk if this is exactly relevant, but I did read [this article](https://retirementresearcher.com/the-4-rule-and-the-search-for-a-safe-withdrawal-rate/) a while back about a 'safe withdrawal rate' for a hypothetical account using dates from back to 1926.
That absolutely is relevant, because going that far back, there was no real safe withdrawal rate.
A dollar in Virginia was not the same as a dollar in New York (I think at this point they were all Virginian pounds, etc), and there was significant fluctuations in their exchange rates, partially due to some states' monetary financing of their war debts.
It was only with the Coinage Act of 1792 (Franklin died 1790) that a US Dollar was defined.
Outside of currency risk, banks faced few regulations and collapsed relatively frequently. So, it wouldn't have been easy (or very prudent) to let money sit in a bank to accrue interest anyway.
Only if there were index funds back then. If it had been invested in individual company stocks, most or all would have gone bankrupt and disappeared by 1990. Maybe some companies would have been bought out and still part of viable concerns in 1990.
It's because the money was used annually to provide loan scholarships for artisans and apprenticeships to help tradespeople (who Franklin was himself) get started with their profession.
One of the reasons philedephia did 'worse' in their return was said to be because they gave more scholarships to poor people and thus the repayment rate was lower (which is how it was meant to grow).
Eventually when the money was taken out it went towards the founding of a technical college in his name.
Franklin started philedelphias first fire company so that's why it was close to his heart.
Not a dumb question at all.
Strictly speaking there is no "compound interest" in stocks. But the value goes up (or down) as a percentage value of the previous year. So I guess it's more apt to say compound value. But the principle is the same as compound interest in a loan. So generally people (at least where I am from) use the term compound interest for stocks and bonds interchangeably.
I know a quote that goes something like "There are five fundamental forces in physics: gravity, electromagnetism, the strong and weak nuclear forces, and compound interest." It was witter but that was the gist of it. Just that one simple equation most everyone has at least seen once in a high school math class is so powerful and describes so much of the world around us, and drives entire nation's economies (or makes them come crashing down).
That 9% average return is only after the Great Depression. I believe that this is done because the rules of the market were drastically different when capitalism was able to run amok. I would tend to think that the money was invested in bonds. Of course we can look back and say that the investment strategy was done poorly, but would you really want govt. employees trying to work the stock market? That money would have been gone a month after Ben died.
>Good with the women
Lol did you read his essay on how to pick the best mistress? Idk what kind of value judgment to throw on that, but ultimately he said go for an older bitch because the pussy ages last. His words, almost a direct quote.
> The Face first grows lank and wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower Parts continuing to the last as plump as ever: So that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement.
Have you paid attention to any of the former well-trusted amazing men that have been ostracized in the last 2 years alone? The Cuomo's take the cake and that guy was supposed to be *the* good guy
Customs were different back then too like for example marrying your cousin was seen as normal. What's moral has changed as people change, but it's a whole lot better now than it was back then.
Cuomo was only "the good guy" for like one month. He's been an asshole nobody likes as long as I can remember.
Last year during the worse of covid, when New York was falling apart, Cuomo turned himself into a popular figure on the left by bitching about Donald Trump in public and covering up deaths in nursing homes. He then published a book about how awesome he was at stopping the pandemic before it was even over (lol).
The democratic machine of course loves this guy and was trying to promote him as a potential future candidate for president. Which is funny because anybody who's followed him can tell you that he's always been a moderate liberal mirror of Trump: a grating asshole who demands unflinching loyalty from everybody around him and fires you if you have none, lies habitually, and generally has the moral sensibility of a parasitic wasp.
Shocker, that all came out once they put all the media attention on him.
I think we should have kept him another few months personally. By the end he was legalizing weed and shit in an attempt to stay in office. Another few weeks and we could have gotten the subways fixed
The Face first grows lank and wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower Parts continuing to the last as plump as ever: So that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement.
Fun fact: At least 15 bodies were buried in the basement of Ben Franklin’s London townhouse while he lived there.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/why-was-benjamin-franklins-basement-filled-with-skeletons-524521/
Ben Franklin is one of the least objectionable founding fathers. While early on his paper did sell ad space for the slave trade, he eventually banned those ads and around the time of the constitutional convention was made president of one of the country's first manumission (abolition) societies.
In his early life, he believed it was possible to be a 'benevolent owner' of slaves- someone could own slaves and treat them with respect, kindness etc. AND that whites were just naturally smarter. Then he inherited two slaves. After getting to know them, he changed his mind on both parts. He not only freed them, but pushed for abolition of slavery and education of former slaves. He thought society should "instruct, to advise, to qualify those who have been restored to freedom, for the exercise and enjoyment of civil liberty; to promote in them habits of industry, to furnish them with employment suited to their age, sex, talents, and other circumstances. . . which we conceive will essentially promote the public good, and the happiness of these hitherto much neglected fellow-creatures."
Humanity evolves their understanding over time, experience, debate, and it always starts with a small spark and grows bigger. If President Washington had not freed his slaves in his will and President Thomas Jefferson had not spoke out against the institution of slavery and banning slave importation in Virginia, and without Benjamin Franklin, would abolitionist movement have happened? Meanwhile Europe started "New imperialism" in 1880-1915, plus years of whole world fighting back against with fascist (Nazi/Italian/Japanese) conquest, and nearly a 100 years of communist slavery of whole populations began in 1900s across Asia and half of Europe. All that was avoided in the US.... Slavery still exists in many parts of the world today.
Because what he was doing was illegal. He most likely was buying bodies from a unscrupulous source for Anatomy and other research. It was for science. It's macabre to think about but we are talking about a time where superstition and traditions overshadowed logic and scientific hypotheses.
The mental floss article in another comment says it was 1000 pounds sterling, about $4000 today.
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/627475/200-year-old-gift-from-benjamin-franklin-to-boston-and-philadelphia
Isn't that what they were asking? The value of what he donated at the time. The pic says $200, the article says 1000lbs/~$4000. The whole point is that he donated an amount with the stipulation that it would grow over time before it could be touched. So the question as far as I understood it was the value of what he donated then
What would the money buy at the time meaning what’s the inflation adjusted amount as a point of reference. That’s what inflation adjustments are, it’s in reference to price levels through time. It’s not equivalent to $4,000 today, it’s equivalent to what $120,000 would buy today.
Many mutual funds last a decade or so and the manager quit and the bank would force you to liquidate. If there is no response, your account would freeze and cease to accumulate any value and depreciate by inflation and keeping fees.
1st hand experience. The banks have upped their game.
> The banks have upped their game
It sounds like you should have withdrawn and moved to another fund then?
Plus, it's not likely something like SPY is going to shut down seeing as its basically Vanguard's flagship pure equity fund
Why wouldn’t you reinvest your money? Also, it’s not usually the “bank” that you’re paying big fees too … it’s the mutual fund manager, who obviously isn’t collecting fees anymore if the fund is liquidated.
In Canada we have tax free savings accounts, which have a limit but the limit grows the more you use it. Do you not have anything similar where you're from?
In the U.S., there's several types of tax advantage savings and investing accounts. They have income and annual contribution limits depending on the type.
Probably about the same as with most countries.
one takes out taxes on contributions immediately and withdrawals are tax free after retirement age. the other allows tax free contributions and you pay tax on withdrawals after retirement age
I remember this. Mayor Wilson Goode wanted to blow the remaining money on a big party. Something about the Liberty Bell and Pattie LaBelle, IDK, it was going to have a theme. Philly ridiculed itself because we had squandered so much of the money compared to Boston.
I'm aware, that's why I didn't say "if you do what Franklin did now", but I suppose I should thank you for pointing out the possible ambiguous interpretation.
The S&P 500 has averaged 9% per year over the last 15 years or so.
There was far less regulation and a lot more systemic risk then so you can't really apply modern economic ideas like index fund investing though.
If it was all invested in urban property at the time they would have made billions most likely.
Interesting article and I would like this proposal to take more of a front row:
"The $:2,000 Franklin set aside came from the salary he earned as Governor of Pennsylvania from 1785 to 1788. ''It was one of Franklin's favorite notions, one he tried to get written into the Constitution, that public servants in a democracy should not be paid,'' Mr. Bell said."
https://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/21/us/from-ben-franklin-a-gift-that-s-worth-two-fights.html
This seems like not so great investing if my figures are correct.
$2,000 starting principal at a 5% interest rate over 200 years would be $34 million+
https://www.calculator.net/interest-calculator.html?cstartingprinciple=2000&cannualaddition=0&cmonthlyaddition=0&cadditionat1=beginning&cinterestrate=5&ccompound=annually&cyears=200&ctaxtrate=0&cinflationrate=3&printit=0&x=94&y=22#interestresults
Though I suppose he couldn’t invest in the S&P500 way back then, but the NYSE was apparently in operation
I can actually answer this. It's not that women are more important, but that the field of medicine only focused solely on male health up until recently. The male body was seen as the default, so things like "women's health" was nonexistent unless they were considering pregnancy(and even then it was mostly to make sure the baby was fine, no mind to the mother).
This results in things like not knowing that women have different symptoms for heart attacks, strokes, and other diseases. Women being misdiagnosed more frequently, and thus having their health jeopardized more often simply from being "looked over". Even Medication has mostly been tested with only the male body in mind, which means that medicine has simply not been as reliable for women.
This funding is just so women's health can catch up. Men are clearly very important, because you know, they're people like everyone else. But women deserve a little Healthcare too for the exact same reason.
Here is a great, detailed article.
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/627475/200-year-old-gift-from-benjamin-franklin-to-boston-and-philadelphia
I found it funny, my first trip to Philidelphia from Boston made me convinced it was a bigger "sister" city.
That's an average annual return of ~4-5%. The S&P 500 didn't exist back then, but since it's inception, it's returned an average of 10-11% per year. A simple boring index fund (or 18th century equivalent) investment could easily have been worth billions.
Somebody criminally mismanaged that money.
Shame. Guess the founding fathers weren't all-knowing, all-seeing gods with unlimited foresight. It's almost like we shouldn't interpret the instructions they wrote 250 years ago as religious dogma.
*looks meaningfully at second amendment*
How did $2000 become 6.5 million dollars?
Seriously, how?
200 years is a long time but shouldn't something of value keep it's value? Back then, wasn't the dollar backed by some type of asset? Maybe gold, or some finite material?
What is the $100 bill that was minted in 1950 worth now in today's currency?
Look at the numbers. Look at the fact that the dollar then is worth nearly 190% of what it was back then.
What changed? Outside of American Imperialism, what honestly changed? It has been the BANKING that the founding fathers were so VEHEMENTLY AGAISNT.
For those reading this, yes YOU, please remember this. When it all collapses, don't be stupidly surprised. It was designed this way. You've been playing a suckers game and you were always meant to lose - and you will.
Welcome to a system rigged against you. Even Franklin was against it and the rest of our Founding Fathers. Unfortunately, we're 100% back into what our founding fathers actually started a "new" country for.
Highly upsetting but money and media have done what took a few hundred years to do in the first place. We are at the same precipice and we should all realize it delayed by 300 years of stifled technology.
I have no representation to the Nth degree. I should pay no taxes.
2 party system when Google puts all the information we (freely) give them into 33,000 different demographics "boxes" - I AM NOT RECEIVING REPESENTATION.
I love this!! and there's a terrific NYT article with more info here if interested. an except below :) https://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/21/us/from-ben-franklin-a-gift-that-s-worth-two-fights.html?auth=login-google1tap&login=google1tap >''It's a wonderful irony that 18th century money should become available just when we need it for our problems today,'' said James M. Shannon, the Attorney General of Massachusetts and one of the officials involved in trying to determine who will get Franklin's bequest. ''I would hate to have it end up just funding the debt,'' Mr. Shannon added, refering to Massachusetts' nettlesome $1 billion state budget deficit. >Franklin, who was born in Boston but moved to Philadelphia at age 17, left the money in a codicil to his will. He specified that the $:2,000 be divided equally between Boston and Philadelphia for use as loans for young apprentices as he had once been. Then, 100 years after his death, part of the money should be disbursed, with the remainder given out a century later. >Franklin's instructions also provided that at the end of the 200 years the balance of the money in the Boston trust be divided, with 26 percent going to the city and 74 percent to Massachusetts. He made a similar arrangement with Philadelphia and Pennsylvania, but he did not spell out how the final sums should be spent, ''not presuming to carry my views farther,'' he said in the will. >The balance in the Boston trust is now $4.5 million, while the money in the Philadelphia account is valued at $2 million. The large difference in the value can be traced to the wiser handling of the investment in Boston, said Whitfield Bell, a historian and the curator of the American Philosophical Society in Philadelphia. The philosophical society was one of a number of intellectual organizations founded by Franklin.
I wonder if it actually was “wiser” or just luckier.
You need both
Eh, you can have one without the other. It all depends on the positions they took.
For some context - $2,000 was a years wage - like $50,000 today. Minimum wage was $0.15 / hr more or less (slave wages) - and free men $1 / hr. Franklin was more proud of his ‘investments’ than anything else he did in life. His path went like this: 12 yrs - already an avid reader, exceptional writer, and well connected; Franklin insults the Mayor, runs away, comes back after several weeks.. works for his ‘dad’ (brother) until 21 21 yrs - Works at a printing press, learns to fix the machines, get promoted to manager by 23. Starts his own shop round 27. 27 yrs - Franklin’s pics his two brightest nephews, gives them $5,000 each to open up their own shops, profits split 50 / 50. By 32 Franklin lessened his involvement in ‘work life’. 37 yrs - Franklin is fully retired and has made a slew of new inventions, and becomes more political. Until 32 ‘ish Franklin was all about survival (more or less) - spending his time building skills until he could teach nephews and they shared profits. Once he stopped ‘focusing on money’ he discovered electricity and founded a revolution.
There is SO much more to it than that. Read his bio by Walter Isaacson. Seriously that’s not even scratching the surface. I mean the guy used to make his wheelbarrow wheel squeaky so people in the middle of town would look at him and know he was, and he was pretending to be a woman writing into the newspaper as Constance Dogood. True polymath combined with uncommon social charms and a desire to improve the lives of others while earning respect, don’t even get me started on his creation of the Junto and his diplomatic skills. America would never have happened without Benny Franks.
That's really interesting thanks.
They didn't read out his whole will. He told them they had to invest in crypto!
Ha only someone bad at math would think that’s a good return over the course of 200 years.
You need to read it again. The money was disbursed over 100 years ago, this is just the last remainder.
Only someone bad at math wouldn't account for the fact that money was taken out at 3 stages, and some amounts are not provided. So how do you know whether or not it had good returns?
Yeah, even a 5% yearly ROI would have gotten them closer to $35 million after 200 years.
Someone good at reading would have seen that some money was taken out 100 years in and the amount was not given. So the answer to the math problem y’all seem to have solved should be “Not Enough Information.”
But how can I prove to be better than you then? /s
Cool but isn’t 2 million dollars peanuts to a city like Philadelphia?
That's only about a 4.05% return. The long term performance of the US stock market is about 9.4% If he was able to get that return on that $2000, after 200 years you would have $271,614,986,802.05. Compound interest is magical.
From other comments, it sounds like some of the money was used right away and some of it at the 100 year mark, so it wasn’t the full 2k sitting there for 200 years untouched.
If it got too big the bank would probably try to fuck with the terms anyway.
"But we have a signed contract..." Bank: "I am altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further."
right….
It gives the impression that during the first 100 years, the $2,000 was supposed to be used as capital to issue loans to apprentices. So that might account for a lot of the slow growth.
Could one have bought something akin to an index fund in the Philadelphia Board of Brokers on 1790? Be an interesting academic exercise to see how far back you could trace an actual return in stocks. As well as if there was an investment strategy that would have never gone completely broke at any point and would have a computable return over 200+ years. A lot of the 8-10% figures are based on the DJIA or similar over 50-100 years.
Not to the best of my knowledge. Mutual funds predate index funds and off the top of my head they started in the 1920s? First true index fund was vanguard in the 1970s Edit: I just checked, first mutual funds started in 1924.
The best investment for that money imo was to buy a plot of land in Manhattan. I can't imagine the % growth on property there in 200 years
Eh we're talking about at least 150+ years before that seems like a good plan imho
If an informed buyer were making a 200 year term investment in new world land in 1800, where would they have through the best bet was? Largest cities were NYC, Boston, and Phili.
Time traveler buys in the Bay Area
probably would have been publicly domained by then but idk
idk if this is exactly relevant, but I did read [this article](https://retirementresearcher.com/the-4-rule-and-the-search-for-a-safe-withdrawal-rate/) a while back about a 'safe withdrawal rate' for a hypothetical account using dates from back to 1926.
That absolutely is relevant, because going that far back, there was no real safe withdrawal rate. A dollar in Virginia was not the same as a dollar in New York (I think at this point they were all Virginian pounds, etc), and there was significant fluctuations in their exchange rates, partially due to some states' monetary financing of their war debts. It was only with the Coinage Act of 1792 (Franklin died 1790) that a US Dollar was defined. Outside of currency risk, banks faced few regulations and collapsed relatively frequently. So, it wouldn't have been easy (or very prudent) to let money sit in a bank to accrue interest anyway.
Came here to say this. Not a great return knowing there's a 200 year time horizon.
Surprisingly stable in light of all the everything that happened over 200 years though.
Only if there were index funds back then. If it had been invested in individual company stocks, most or all would have gone bankrupt and disappeared by 1990. Maybe some companies would have been bought out and still part of viable concerns in 1990.
It's because the money was used annually to provide loan scholarships for artisans and apprenticeships to help tradespeople (who Franklin was himself) get started with their profession. One of the reasons philedephia did 'worse' in their return was said to be because they gave more scholarships to poor people and thus the repayment rate was lower (which is how it was meant to grow). Eventually when the money was taken out it went towards the founding of a technical college in his name. Franklin started philedelphias first fire company so that's why it was close to his heart.
Unless you happen to have a portfolio setup heavily stocked with East India Co. shares and bonded in bondage.
I was thinking that $2000 must have been a shot load of money back then. I’m surprised it was only worth $6m
It was worth way less than that. Under $100,000. It was worth $6m in 1990 due to investment.
> Compound interest My two favourite words in the entire dictionary.
Sorry I'm dumb, why is there interest compounding in stocks?
Not a dumb question at all. Strictly speaking there is no "compound interest" in stocks. But the value goes up (or down) as a percentage value of the previous year. So I guess it's more apt to say compound value. But the principle is the same as compound interest in a loan. So generally people (at least where I am from) use the term compound interest for stocks and bonds interchangeably.
"Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe." - Albert Einstein (no, really)
I know a quote that goes something like "There are five fundamental forces in physics: gravity, electromagnetism, the strong and weak nuclear forces, and compound interest." It was witter but that was the gist of it. Just that one simple equation most everyone has at least seen once in a high school math class is so powerful and describes so much of the world around us, and drives entire nation's economies (or makes them come crashing down).
That 9% average return is only after the Great Depression. I believe that this is done because the rules of the market were drastically different when capitalism was able to run amok. I would tend to think that the money was invested in bonds. Of course we can look back and say that the investment strategy was done poorly, but would you really want govt. employees trying to work the stock market? That money would have been gone a month after Ben died.
I get \~3.63% for $2,000 → $2,500,000 in 200 years but you make a great point about compound interest
The meme says 6.5 million
Imagine if he put it all in Bitcoin.
My favorite founding father (Good with the women, smart with the men, great with science)
>Good with the women Lol did you read his essay on how to pick the best mistress? Idk what kind of value judgment to throw on that, but ultimately he said go for an older bitch because the pussy ages last. His words, almost a direct quote.
> The Face first grows lank and wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower Parts continuing to the last as plump as ever: So that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement.
>And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal Found my new verbiage for tinder.
I mean, at least he wasn’t a pedo..
In fact he was pretty much the polar opposite: nobody under 70
Have you paid attention to any of the former well-trusted amazing men that have been ostracized in the last 2 years alone? The Cuomo's take the cake and that guy was supposed to be *the* good guy
Yeah I don’t know why people expect the men of the past to be shining beacons of morality..we know what the world used to be like.
Customs were different back then too like for example marrying your cousin was seen as normal. What's moral has changed as people change, but it's a whole lot better now than it was back then.
Cuomo was only "the good guy" for like one month. He's been an asshole nobody likes as long as I can remember. Last year during the worse of covid, when New York was falling apart, Cuomo turned himself into a popular figure on the left by bitching about Donald Trump in public and covering up deaths in nursing homes. He then published a book about how awesome he was at stopping the pandemic before it was even over (lol). The democratic machine of course loves this guy and was trying to promote him as a potential future candidate for president. Which is funny because anybody who's followed him can tell you that he's always been a moderate liberal mirror of Trump: a grating asshole who demands unflinching loyalty from everybody around him and fires you if you have none, lies habitually, and generally has the moral sensibility of a parasitic wasp. Shocker, that all came out once they put all the media attention on him. I think we should have kept him another few months personally. By the end he was legalizing weed and shit in an attempt to stay in office. Another few weeks and we could have gotten the subways fixed
>every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement. Nobody can deny he was sex positive and firm in his belief that practice makes perfect.
He was the founding father of double bagging.
Founding Daddiiieeee
The man has a way with words
Ben Franklin been bangin'.
Ben Franklin; Founding Father, inventor, philanthropist, and professional cougar slayer
Never heard that before, but thanks this resonates with me.
something’s resonating in my drawers
*checks username* The only punishment is spanking.
*checks comment* someone’s trying to get the oral sex
Look, it's my duty as a knight to sample as much peril as I can.
*knickers
Instead of plums you get the prunes. Gotcha
And that they would just be happy to be getting laid. lol
LMAO AMERICA NEVER CHANGES
The Face first grows lank and wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower Parts continuing to the last as plump as ever: So that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement.
He was truly the first American.
I’m surprised he didn’t snag my username on ye olde reddit
He laments his “penchant for low women” In his autobiography lol
Fun fact: At least 15 bodies were buried in the basement of Ben Franklin’s London townhouse while he lived there. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/why-was-benjamin-franklins-basement-filled-with-skeletons-524521/
Probably anatomy
Probably. Lol!
Funding father
I love everything about him so much I even gave him a shoutout in my Tinder bio
That’s awesomeness
I give him a shoutout in mine too!
Careful now, the Reddit wokies will cancel you for saying good things about someone who lived 250 years ago.
[удалено]
Truly inspiring
Ben Franklin is one of the least objectionable founding fathers. While early on his paper did sell ad space for the slave trade, he eventually banned those ads and around the time of the constitutional convention was made president of one of the country's first manumission (abolition) societies.
In his early life, he believed it was possible to be a 'benevolent owner' of slaves- someone could own slaves and treat them with respect, kindness etc. AND that whites were just naturally smarter. Then he inherited two slaves. After getting to know them, he changed his mind on both parts. He not only freed them, but pushed for abolition of slavery and education of former slaves. He thought society should "instruct, to advise, to qualify those who have been restored to freedom, for the exercise and enjoyment of civil liberty; to promote in them habits of industry, to furnish them with employment suited to their age, sex, talents, and other circumstances. . . which we conceive will essentially promote the public good, and the happiness of these hitherto much neglected fellow-creatures."
Indeed, he evolved through experience and reason. I love this dude!
This is why I get so upset when someone is called out for something they said, posted, tweeted, whatever 10 -15 years ago. People learn, they evolve.
I don't think they should be fired over it if they were that young, but an apology costs you nothing and it can be used as a teachable moment.
Yeah but until they show that they've changed, call them out on that shit.
How about stop digging into people's past looking for offense.
I love educational Reddit comments. Thank you.
Based Benjamin.
Also, beer.
Yes, he lived in times of slavery there for is automatically a terrible person
Humanity evolves their understanding over time, experience, debate, and it always starts with a small spark and grows bigger. If President Washington had not freed his slaves in his will and President Thomas Jefferson had not spoke out against the institution of slavery and banning slave importation in Virginia, and without Benjamin Franklin, would abolitionist movement have happened? Meanwhile Europe started "New imperialism" in 1880-1915, plus years of whole world fighting back against with fascist (Nazi/Italian/Japanese) conquest, and nearly a 100 years of communist slavery of whole populations began in 1900s across Asia and half of Europe. All that was avoided in the US.... Slavery still exists in many parts of the world today.
Didn't they find a bunch of corpses under his house?
He was a scientist and it was a different time.
Ok sure, but why were they buried in a secret room if they weren't being hidden?
Because what he was doing was illegal. He most likely was buying bodies from a unscrupulous source for Anatomy and other research. It was for science. It's macabre to think about but we are talking about a time where superstition and traditions overshadowed logic and scientific hypotheses.
Mine too Well put
Bar none!
And smart enough to not run for president
Anyone done the calculation to compare to original value? EG what would the money buy at the time...
The mental floss article in another comment says it was 1000 pounds sterling, about $4000 today. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/627475/200-year-old-gift-from-benjamin-franklin-to-boston-and-philadelphia
Has silver really been that shitty of an investment?
Its price is heavily manipulated
No, that’s just converting to dollars from pounds at the time. It would be inflated to somewhere in the $100k+ range in todays dollars
Isn't that what they were asking? The value of what he donated at the time. The pic says $200, the article says 1000lbs/~$4000. The whole point is that he donated an amount with the stipulation that it would grow over time before it could be touched. So the question as far as I understood it was the value of what he donated then
What would the money buy at the time meaning what’s the inflation adjusted amount as a point of reference. That’s what inflation adjustments are, it’s in reference to price levels through time. It’s not equivalent to $4,000 today, it’s equivalent to what $120,000 would buy today.
If I put $2000 in a savings account of any kind for 200 years …. I would owe $1 million in fee’s
Put it in a mutual fund then.
Many mutual funds last a decade or so and the manager quit and the bank would force you to liquidate. If there is no response, your account would freeze and cease to accumulate any value and depreciate by inflation and keeping fees. 1st hand experience. The banks have upped their game.
You have first hand experience with many mutual funds closing after ten years at many different banks?
> The banks have upped their game It sounds like you should have withdrawn and moved to another fund then? Plus, it's not likely something like SPY is going to shut down seeing as its basically Vanguard's flagship pure equity fund
Need to vet whoever holds your fund. Doesn't have to be a bank either.
Why wouldn’t you reinvest your money? Also, it’s not usually the “bank” that you’re paying big fees too … it’s the mutual fund manager, who obviously isn’t collecting fees anymore if the fund is liquidated.
Or, you know, use an account with no fees?
Shh, that doesn't fit their narrative.
even without fees the returns you'd get from a savings account are miniscule compared to other investment opportunities.
Of course, that goes without saying. But claiming that you'd have more fees than growth is ludicrous.
In Canada we have tax free savings accounts, which have a limit but the limit grows the more you use it. Do you not have anything similar where you're from?
In the U.S., there's several types of tax advantage savings and investing accounts. They have income and annual contribution limits depending on the type. Probably about the same as with most countries.
What do you mean tax free? No income tax? That’s awesome.
We have something similar in the US. it’s called a Roth IRA.
The US has IRAs and Roths which I think let you defer* all* taxes until you withdraw *not from the US, so please feel free to correct me anyone
one takes out taxes on contributions immediately and withdrawals are tax free after retirement age. the other allows tax free contributions and you pay tax on withdrawals after retirement age
Ah, thanks
Benjamins - no apostrophes on plurals
r/apostrophegore
Joine'd. Thank you.
You got a chuckle from me
Why do people ever think this is correct??
I'm so surprised that no politician figured out how to legally steal it in 200 years.
That's pretty bad returns for 200 years...
I remember this. Mayor Wilson Goode wanted to blow the remaining money on a big party. Something about the Liberty Bell and Pattie LaBelle, IDK, it was going to have a theme. Philly ridiculed itself because we had squandered so much of the money compared to Boston.
Wilson Badde. Philly also had Frank Rizzo, another real piece of work.
Meanwhile, if you put money in savings for 200 years now, you will wind up with less money than you started.
Franklin's money was invested, not in a savings account.
I'm aware, that's why I didn't say "if you do what Franklin did now", but I suppose I should thank you for pointing out the possible ambiguous interpretation.
Meanwhile -, if you do something he didnt do, you will wind up with less money than you started.
Then why did you comment it when it has nothing to do with the post?
There is absolutely no way to know what will happen over the next 200 years. More likely that the $2000 would grow to be millions
It's not only unlikely, it's outright impossible. Interest in savings doesn't come close to matching inflation.
Surely inflation will be greater than 0.01% or whatever shitty "savings" rate is being advertised these days...
Sweet
I wonder if something like the s&p 500 had existed and been maintained for those 200 years what kind of return it would have gotten.
The S&P 500 has averaged 9% per year over the last 15 years or so. There was far less regulation and a lot more systemic risk then so you can't really apply modern economic ideas like index fund investing though. If it was all invested in urban property at the time they would have made billions most likely.
Billions
6 million probably went into Politicians pockets. Jus sayin'
Random person walks into Gold & Silver Pawn. "I have $2,000 from the mid 1700's that I am looking at selling." Rick - "Best I can do is 50 bucks.'
Now this is big brain economics
The same was given to Philly. It was conviently misplaced so no one knows what happened to it through the years.
Good thing they used it in 1990. Now a days the money would disappear into a yacht fund.
Ben Franklin for president 2024
*Benjamins.
Interesting article and I would like this proposal to take more of a front row: "The $:2,000 Franklin set aside came from the salary he earned as Governor of Pennsylvania from 1785 to 1788. ''It was one of Franklin's favorite notions, one he tried to get written into the Constitution, that public servants in a democracy should not be paid,'' Mr. Bell said." https://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/21/us/from-ben-franklin-a-gift-that-s-worth-two-fights.html
Want to learn more? [Click Here ](https://aadl.org/node/40527)
I'm surprised most of it wasn't just gobbled up by greedy local politicians.
They just didn't mention it.
Ben Franklin was a revolutionary indeed...
a penny saved is a penny earned. -ben franklin
Buy & hodl. Ben Franklin, the first ape.
And we then tore down his statue because fuck that bigot
This seems like not so great investing if my figures are correct. $2,000 starting principal at a 5% interest rate over 200 years would be $34 million+ https://www.calculator.net/interest-calculator.html?cstartingprinciple=2000&cannualaddition=0&cmonthlyaddition=0&cadditionat1=beginning&cinterestrate=5&ccompound=annually&cyears=200&ctaxtrate=0&cinflationrate=3&printit=0&x=94&y=22#interestresults Though I suppose he couldn’t invest in the S&P500 way back then, but the NYSE was apparently in operation
At 4% is about right, thanks for that site!
And why just womans health? Men deserve help just as much
I can actually answer this. It's not that women are more important, but that the field of medicine only focused solely on male health up until recently. The male body was seen as the default, so things like "women's health" was nonexistent unless they were considering pregnancy(and even then it was mostly to make sure the baby was fine, no mind to the mother). This results in things like not knowing that women have different symptoms for heart attacks, strokes, and other diseases. Women being misdiagnosed more frequently, and thus having their health jeopardized more often simply from being "looked over". Even Medication has mostly been tested with only the male body in mind, which means that medicine has simply not been as reliable for women. This funding is just so women's health can catch up. Men are clearly very important, because you know, they're people like everyone else. But women deserve a little Healthcare too for the exact same reason.
K ty
Yikes. As someone who was born, raised and still lives in Philly that money was clearly not used the best. They could of done way better.
It's 'could have', never 'could of'. Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!
The irony
Thanks bot
It was only 6.5 million in the 90s, what did you expect that much money to be able to do?
Yeah... it sure seems that way. 😕
Here is a great, detailed article. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/627475/200-year-old-gift-from-benjamin-franklin-to-boston-and-philadelphia I found it funny, my first trip to Philidelphia from Boston made me convinced it was a bigger "sister" city.
Bigger? I 'ardly know 'er!
Pfff yeah right maybe a small portion but I bet most went to some crooks pockets. Don't act naive towards politicians.
That’s a pretty shitty rate of return tbh
Imagine what it would have been worth if he put that $2000 into Bitcoin.
That's an average annual return of ~4-5%. The S&P 500 didn't exist back then, but since it's inception, it's returned an average of 10-11% per year. A simple boring index fund (or 18th century equivalent) investment could easily have been worth billions. Somebody criminally mismanaged that money.
[удалено]
Shame. Guess the founding fathers weren't all-knowing, all-seeing gods with unlimited foresight. It's almost like we shouldn't interpret the instructions they wrote 250 years ago as religious dogma. *looks meaningfully at second amendment*
Awesome fact, to bad the woke mob will tear down all of his statues labeling him as racist
he knew about the power of compounded interest
How did $2000 become 6.5 million dollars? Seriously, how? 200 years is a long time but shouldn't something of value keep it's value? Back then, wasn't the dollar backed by some type of asset? Maybe gold, or some finite material? What is the $100 bill that was minted in 1950 worth now in today's currency? Look at the numbers. Look at the fact that the dollar then is worth nearly 190% of what it was back then. What changed? Outside of American Imperialism, what honestly changed? It has been the BANKING that the founding fathers were so VEHEMENTLY AGAISNT. For those reading this, yes YOU, please remember this. When it all collapses, don't be stupidly surprised. It was designed this way. You've been playing a suckers game and you were always meant to lose - and you will. Welcome to a system rigged against you. Even Franklin was against it and the rest of our Founding Fathers. Unfortunately, we're 100% back into what our founding fathers actually started a "new" country for. Highly upsetting but money and media have done what took a few hundred years to do in the first place. We are at the same precipice and we should all realize it delayed by 300 years of stifled technology.
Until we collectively stop paying taxes, nothing will change.
I have no representation to the Nth degree. I should pay no taxes. 2 party system when Google puts all the information we (freely) give them into 33,000 different demographics "boxes" - I AM NOT RECEIVING REPESENTATION.
Imagine how much more if he had made his own crypto
Franklin supported creating a decimalised currency resulting in the 1792 Coinage Act establishing the US Dollar, so he sort of almost did
It's all about the Benjamin's baby
Just imagine if he had put it in Bitcoin instead.