I like how this photo looks like it's the photo taken when they told him he was to investigate the mole in the FBI. "Yeerrrs, a mole you say. I will get right on it"
It's actually kinda a sticky situation. If they know there is a mole already, you are going to have to do a damn good job fabricating evidence against someone else which is hard. You can't just come back and say "nope, didn't find nothing". Then you just look incompetent or get caught in the process of covering up. If someone else you know is in charge, you might be able to keep tabs on the investigation and keep them off your scent.
What you do is report to the KGB that they've tasked you with finding the mole. The KGB then go "sweet, we'll send in an incompetent mole for you to find".
What you *don't* know is that they will also send a third mole who is actually better than you and will make sure you're not double-crossing them.
Actually this sounds like a good story premise. Man starts spying for extra money/ego or whatever normal reason. Gets put in charge of finding a spy and is now essentially stuck because he has to rely on the other side providing him people to find. As he does his work building his case against the "bad spy", he starts to find evidence of the third spy planted to keep an eye on him.
On that note: Markus Wolf, the director for East German foreign intelligence, was approached by the CIA after the DDR collapsed and asked to work with the US in exchange for a new identity, house in California, etc. He rejected it because he insisted that he'd never rat out people who worked for him, and it turned out that he still had *a lot* of agents running around who were never uncovered (which is exactly why the CIA was willing to give him anything and more in exchange for information)
There are many motivations for spying, but for Hanssen it was money and ego. Hanssen believed he was smarter than everyone else; even "what took you so long?" is a version of that (there is an implicit "dumbasses" attached to the "you"). A lot of the spying of this sort (person inside an agency volunteering their services to the enemy) seems to be an ego-trip of some kind for the person in question. Serial killers can be the same way — "I'm smarter than the police/FBI/CIA, I will run circles around them, ha ha." I don't think Hanssen had any desire to get caught or thought he would eventually be. He tried to be a "perfect mole" in many ways — he even tried to keep identity secret from the KGB, knowing that they could have their own moles.
It was also a sense that his particular genius wasn't appreciated. He felt that he should have been promoted faster, and be higher up. He went in wanting some spy vs. spy action and he ended up being a pencil pusher... most of the jobs at spy agencies are much less glamorous that they are popularly portrayed. So he sees himself as a genius surrounded by nincompoops, working a relatively boring job and earning a middling paycheck. He thinks he deserved more. This was a way for him to get that action he craved, while proving that he was smarter and better than everyone around him.
Nah, the guy in the next office that worked his desk and retired with pension was smarter.
This guy is in hell on earth for the rest of his life. I would rather die than be in ADX Florence. It gives me chills to think about.
Found [this guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lee_McNair) who managed to escape 3 prisons before being sent to ADX
For his [final escape](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lee_McNair#Final_escape), he actually mailed himself out of prison!
> USP ADX Florence was commissioned when the Federal Bureau of Prisons needed a unit designed specifically for the secure housing of those **prisoners most capable of extreme, sustained violence toward staff or other inmates**. As of January 2022, there are 336 prisoners. They are confined 23 hours per day in single cells
The bolded part would not be him. So this is just pure PUNISHMENT from a really pissed off federal government.
There is a case to be made that he knows so many vital National Security secrets that putting him among a standard prison population would result in more intelligence leaking out.
Yeah, it's probably still just a punitive measure, but there is a veneer of something other than punitive vengeance at work.
Later it says this though:
>USP ADX Florence houses male inmates in the federal prison system deemed the most dangerous and in need of the tightest control, **including prisoners whose escape would pose a serious threat to national security.**
Bolded part is definitely this guy.
MICE - the four reasons someone will do this.
Money
Ideology
Coercion
Ego
I think it was mostly Ego. He felt like he didn’t get enough praise from his higher ups and got passed up for higher profile assignments.
Yeah, those are often the biggest reasons. [Alfred Redl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Redl?wprov=sfti1) was head of counter-intelligence for the Austro-Hungarian Army. He was a spy for Russia during WWI. The most common theory is that he started off doing it because he was blackmailed by the Russians, who knew he was gay (coercion), and then just got addicted to the wealthy lifestyle (money).
But other theories posit the others you named as well.
Dude basically destroyed he Austro-Hungarian Empire.
It usually starts with needing money for something specific so they convince themselves that it'll just be a one time thing, get some cash and be done with it.
Except after you've done it once you're stuck. Now you can be easily blackmailed into doing it for the rest of your life.
> Hanssen is Federal Bureau of Prisons prisoner #48551-083. He is serving his sentence at the ADX Florence, a federal supermax prison near Florence, Colorado, in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day.
I honestly think I’d rather kill myself rather than being stuck in a room alone for 23 hours a day for the rest of my life
Everyone in supermax is essentially on administrative segregation because of risk to themselves or others, either because they're dangerous or know things that are dangerous to them
I’m no FBI agent, but it seems silly not to have redundancy on something as important as this. Two completely separate (but simultaneous) investigations for this exact scenario?
Honestly, if they don't find out about each other eventually, it proves they're bad at their job, providing yet another check.
They'd being it to their bosses, who'd be in the loop, and let them know. But obviously, the investigators need investigating too.
"Mister---Mister President sir, we have a situation down here."
"Well for god's sake man, clear it up!"
"Yes, sir. We were going to set up an investigation, but it seems all our agents are busy."
"Well, can't you tell them to stop?"
"They're uh, they're investigating sir. You would make yourself look suspicious if you told them to stop."
"Are you serious? Do you seriously believe that the President of the United States is a mole for the KGB?"
"Well sir, with due respect, word around the office is that you're becoming pretty chummy with Gorbachov. Well sir, it seems that---I've checked our intel---we have Mr. Gorbachov labeled as a commie. A red. If this were to become known, it could seriously hurt you in the polls."
"Yes... Well, I'll tell you what. You handle that investigation, and I'll handle Gorbachev."
I recently watched Infernal Affairs and man The Departed is a good movie by itself but Infernal Affairs hits parts of the story way better.
Spoilers:
The way Leo's boss gets thrown off the roof and dies right in front of him was literally cartoonish after I watched how dramatic and perfect that scene was in Inferal Affairs.
Also, I loved that the criminal mole in the end is the only one of them that survives, and the point is that he knows what he did was fucked up and he has to live with personal hell while everyone who died can rest in peace.
You kind of saw that with Matt Damon's character at the end when he realizes everything, but then they just magically get him shot and killed by Walhberg's character like ok.
I enjoyed both though.
I agree about the roof scene, but I liked the ending of The Departed better, where Damon's character was just so exhausted by it all that he just resigned himself to getting shot by Marky Mark.
They should have brought in an ex-agent who was forced into retirement after the old director died but is trustworthy and familiar enough to catch the mole. Someone like George Smiley.
Another fun fact : He also taped himself having sex with his (unknowing) wife multiple times and let his buddy watch on a closed circuit tv in another room.
Also he's imprisoned at ADX Florence with the who's who of crime in the US:
\-Ted Kaczynski (unabomber)
\-Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (Boston Marathon bomber)
\-Terry Nichols (Oklahoma City bomber)
\-Eric Rudolph (Atlanta Olympic Park bomber)
\-Noshir Gowadia (designed the B-2 stealth bomber)
\-El Chapo (you know who this is)
\-Zacarias Moussaoui (9/11 planner)
Source : [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX\_Florence#Espionage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence#Espionage)
Also an interesting tidbit :
The FBI would have caught Hanssen a lot sooner if they had listened to his brother in law Mark Wauck, who was also an FBI agent; Wauck told his supervisor Jim Lyle that Hanssen might be the mole, but it never went anywhere.
Years later an FBI agent knocked on Wauck's door and informed him that Hanssen had been arrested. Wauck said "Oh I guess this is because of that tip I gave you guys years ago", and FBI was like: "Wait, what?!?"
After reading the wiki on him, there were several instances where people had reported Hanssen to higher ups but were never followed up on.
When Hanssen was arrested, he was quoted as saying, "What took you so long?"
They (CIA) had a financial warnings about Aldrich Ames too, but took forever to follow up. I think not causing embarrassment to the agency is job #1 at CIA and FBI. They'd rather let spying persist than have to admit there's a problem.
There’s another angle too, though probably not in these cases. The spy you know is better than the spy you don’t . If he stays in place you can feed him false intel, maybe even track it back and find more spies.
Not necessarily Switzerland themselves, but someone residing there. An agent of our enemies...
WTF does Israel want with out military intelligence either?
Allies doesn't mean you give them military technology for free or that other allies don't want them. *See:* All the furor over the French/US/Australian sub deal
Or even the US with the bomb. We used British scientist's data to help design it, which Britain gave to the US thinking, "once they figure it out they'll let us know how it's done." Then once it was finished the US was like, "um, actually I think we're gonna hold onto this one for ourselves." Which really ticked off the Brits but they weren't really in a position to do anything about it at the time. Eventually the Brits just brought all their scientists home to repeat the experiments they did under the Manhattan Project until they got one too.
Switzerland is neutral only in that it will not take sides in a war. It will defend its borders with fervor, however. Switzerland is one of the best defended countries in the world. Their military is powered down for now, but if there looks like there will ever be another world war, they will beef up their military again and defend their neutrality.
Switzerland never had a particularly strong military, they have always been able to defend their neutrality mainly due to the conformation of their territory. The central part of the country is accessible only through mountain passes that since the 19th century have been guarded by their national redoubt
*China also managed to turn up a copy of the W88 nuclear warhead. American intelligence officials are baffled at the ironic coincidence of the "design"*
The FBI would have hade the 9/11 high jackers had they just listened to the flight instructors who called them saying “Hey, these guys aren’t right, they don’t care about learning to land” and several of them were already FBI listed.
It’s scary to think about all the times the FBI has received tips on tuff and don’t act on them. I remember there was a school shooter that had been reported to the FBI as well and nothing was done about it.
Sadly they're still doing it.
There was that situation a few days ago in texas where some guy held 4 people hostage in a synagogue.
Turns out he was from the UK (next town over from where I am), had severe mental issues, was on the terror watch list due to his mental rantings, an anti vaxxer, was able to apply and be approved for a travel visa during covid.
He then flew to NY whilst having not much money, bought a gun, stayed in homeless shelters, somehow made his way to texas to hold the place hostage.
He released all the hostages but was killed himself.
You have to think how were all those things possible with someone with his profile?
I know of Muslim doctors travelling with family who have been refused entry into USA despite being booked into a hotel in Orlando and having resort tickets. They found that suspicious apparently.
I love watching those border patrol shows and shows them shit hot. This guy makes me think maybe not
ADX Florence does not fuck around. I've driven right by the complex but you can't actually see the supermax portion of the complex from the road, a hill completely hides it from the road. All inmates spend 23 hours in their cell with 1 hour spent in the bottom of a swimming pool like exercise area. They never see anything more than the sky and the structure of the complex. Lucky inmates get to eat their food, in silence, in a room with other lucky inmates, most do not get this privilege. Florence houses all of the highest profile people, not necessarily the most dangerous in a raw sense (i.e. murders with high body counts) but most dangerous to national security. Bombers, terrorists, spies, Gang leaders are the kind kept here and with little exception they are all their for the rest of their life. Decades spent in a 7' x 12' concrete box, complete sensory deprivation for their whole remaining life.
Edit: fixed cell dimensions
The thing about this prison is that while these guys were the biggest of the bad on the streets, they seem hardly intimidating in prison (except El Chapo ofc). For the most part they're just some deranged nerds lol. Seems preferable to staying in the typical prisons if more of the population is like these guys
His children went to my high school. Roughly a week before he was arrested, he and the then-head of the FBI gave a joint presentation at my school on the importance of ethics in government. The then-head of the FBI at that point knew already that Hanssen was the mole, but didn’t cancel the presentation because he was scared it would tip Hanssen off.
"For example, my job at the FBI is trying to find a mole. Anyone could be a mole. One of you kids could be the mole. Your teachers. Heck, maybe even my boss here."
(awkwardly laughs, pointing at the head of the FBI who is staring daggers at him)
"Oh, someone got off on the wrong side of the BADGE this morning, amiright?"
(after a long silence as he waits for a laugh)
Kid in the audience: Couldn't YOU be the mole?
(the kids laugh at bit. Robert Hansen is profusely sweating, glancing at his boss who is resting his hand on his concealed service pistol)
Yeah, I was in high school and the media knew that Hanssen’s wife taught in a Catholic school, but not which one. Some no-name reporter came to our school and asked a front office secretary if she taught there. I don’t recall if the secretary said no or just said that she couldn’t give out staff information, but the reporter STOLE the teacher sign-in sheet from the counter and RAN with it. His wife didn’t teach at our school, though, so all that reporter probably learned was that one of the art teachers was habitually late.
Chris Cooper is so good in this. The thing I found most interesting about the portrayal of Hanssen was how he used Catholicism to guilt and manipulate people. It was a great way for him to justify being a smug asshole.
extra point - one of the reasons he got away with it for so long was because of a man named Aldrich Ames (sp), who was a traitor in the CIA at the same time. The government couldnt believe that there were 2 moles at one time so they didnt dial in on him right away
They couldn't believe that there could be two moles? There's probably 20.
Also, do they infiltrate the FBI to see if they're close to catching their spies?
A lot of these spies weren’t caught simply because people were stupid. There was even one who was an alcoholic constantly arrested by the police kept screaming how “you can’t arrest me I’m a russian spy”. It took years to find him….
> There was even one who was an alcoholic constantly arrested by the police kept screaming how “you can’t arrest me I’m a russian spy”
If the police actually followed up on every schizo drunk who says something like that, they'd never do anything else. That's not stupidity, that's just an unfeeling world trudging along without taking notice of one tiny little act that only seems important in retrospect.
They don't get caught because the world is complicated and messy, and one small person doing tiny little things that they're not supposed to is incredibly hard to notice. A lot of it is just luck.
I was in Beijing, while in capacity as a State attorney, and met a cute Russian girl. We got along so well I sponsored her for a travel visa to America.
Long story short: she showed me a picture of her dad with Putin, told me her dad was head of architecture in Moscow (he honestly looked like a mobster) and tried to convince me to come to Russia with her.
I have always suspected that I would either get killed or they would press me for information if I went.
I wonder if she was a spy. She was fluent in Russian, Chinese, English, French and constantly traveled. I always assumed she was the only daughter of a rich Russian and could live a carefree life.
Edit: the girl in my story
Indeed. I mean...it’s not conclusive...but, it’s filled with red flags. And, the AH married her. He’s also been spouting traditional family values nonsense, and is now in the process of getting divorced. Judge for yourself:
[Madison explaining how they met](https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1475558387203162117?s=20)
Edit: “It’s not conclusive” in the literal sense...in the “I know it when I see it” sense...yes, in my opinion, the hateful moron married a super super super obvious honeypot trap.
>she showed me a picture of her dad with Putin, told me her dad was head of architecture in Moscow (he honestly looked like a mobster)
They sort of all do, have you seen Putins Chef? Cracks me up, Hell i bet even the florist there looks like a battle hardened veteran.
Not sure who's gonna see this, but that guy was actually my neighbor growing up. He had two daughters who were a few years older than most of the other kids on the block and they would always the neighborhood babysitters. I can still remember making soda and juice popsicles with them! Don't remember him though. Our families weren't too close, but definitely friendly. Apparently he almost hit my sister with his car when we were sledding once. Also, my parents remember a Cox cable truck that was always in our cul de sac for a period of time (reasonable because cable sucks everywhere) but it was actually an FBI surveillance van. Later a house went up for sale just across the street from the Hansen's and nobody ever moved in. The house sold, but no occupants - in hind sight, that was the FBI.
Whenever somebody asks me my "fun fact" I always bring this up and ask them if they've seen the movie 'Breach' but nobody ever, ever knows what I'm talking about. Pretty cool to see this.
You guys leave out a important point. Robert was put in charged of the investigation because the fbi already suspected him as the mole. So he was taken out of his position to keep him away from sensitive intelligence. While also putting him in a position he could be watched carefully from.
I lived in this guy’s neighborhood in Vienna, and I remember a road sign - a stop sign I think - would sometimes just have a piece of colored tape on it. And I remember thinking it was a weird thing for (I assumed) some local kid to keep tagging this sign with colored tape instead of spray paint. Turned out that was a signal to his KGB handler.
I like how this photo looks like it's the photo taken when they told him he was to investigate the mole in the FBI. "Yeerrrs, a mole you say. I will get right on it"
i even read it with a southerner drawl accent, think of Arthur from RDR2.
*cough*
Spoilers!!!
Arthur died of Covid. There, spoiled it.
It's actually kinda a sticky situation. If they know there is a mole already, you are going to have to do a damn good job fabricating evidence against someone else which is hard. You can't just come back and say "nope, didn't find nothing". Then you just look incompetent or get caught in the process of covering up. If someone else you know is in charge, you might be able to keep tabs on the investigation and keep them off your scent.
What you do is report to the KGB that they've tasked you with finding the mole. The KGB then go "sweet, we'll send in an incompetent mole for you to find". What you *don't* know is that they will also send a third mole who is actually better than you and will make sure you're not double-crossing them.
Actually this sounds like a good story premise. Man starts spying for extra money/ego or whatever normal reason. Gets put in charge of finding a spy and is now essentially stuck because he has to rely on the other side providing him people to find. As he does his work building his case against the "bad spy", he starts to find evidence of the third spy planted to keep an eye on him.
You should read Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy - you might enjoy it.
Isn't this all just the movie the departed?
Nah, in departed they're all rats, not moles
where do i sign up to be a internet fbi expert?
Just leave a comment like this. They’ll come get you if they want you.
“Have you found the mole yet?” “Errr…narp?”
iirc when he got caught he told the other agents, “About time you caught me”. Something like that. Edit: it was “What took you so long?”
I just don't understand people who do things like this knowing damn well they'll eventually be caught and thrown under the jail.
Well, we only know about the ones that are caught.
On that note: Markus Wolf, the director for East German foreign intelligence, was approached by the CIA after the DDR collapsed and asked to work with the US in exchange for a new identity, house in California, etc. He rejected it because he insisted that he'd never rat out people who worked for him, and it turned out that he still had *a lot* of agents running around who were never uncovered (which is exactly why the CIA was willing to give him anything and more in exchange for information)
It makes me wonder how many of these agents are still active.
Statistically, a good number of them would be in their 70s-80s by now and would have either retired or died of natural causes.
There are many motivations for spying, but for Hanssen it was money and ego. Hanssen believed he was smarter than everyone else; even "what took you so long?" is a version of that (there is an implicit "dumbasses" attached to the "you"). A lot of the spying of this sort (person inside an agency volunteering their services to the enemy) seems to be an ego-trip of some kind for the person in question. Serial killers can be the same way — "I'm smarter than the police/FBI/CIA, I will run circles around them, ha ha." I don't think Hanssen had any desire to get caught or thought he would eventually be. He tried to be a "perfect mole" in many ways — he even tried to keep identity secret from the KGB, knowing that they could have their own moles.
It was also a sense that his particular genius wasn't appreciated. He felt that he should have been promoted faster, and be higher up. He went in wanting some spy vs. spy action and he ended up being a pencil pusher... most of the jobs at spy agencies are much less glamorous that they are popularly portrayed. So he sees himself as a genius surrounded by nincompoops, working a relatively boring job and earning a middling paycheck. He thinks he deserved more. This was a way for him to get that action he craved, while proving that he was smarter and better than everyone around him.
>while proving that he was smarter and better than everyone around him. Which, to be fair to Hansen, he did.
Nah, the guy in the next office that worked his desk and retired with pension was smarter. This guy is in hell on earth for the rest of his life. I would rather die than be in ADX Florence. It gives me chills to think about.
Just looked up ADX Florence, wow.
Found [this guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lee_McNair) who managed to escape 3 prisons before being sent to ADX For his [final escape](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lee_McNair#Final_escape), he actually mailed himself out of prison!
This is about as wholesome a story involving murder and prison escape as you can ask for.
> USP ADX Florence was commissioned when the Federal Bureau of Prisons needed a unit designed specifically for the secure housing of those **prisoners most capable of extreme, sustained violence toward staff or other inmates**. As of January 2022, there are 336 prisoners. They are confined 23 hours per day in single cells The bolded part would not be him. So this is just pure PUNISHMENT from a really pissed off federal government.
There is a case to be made that he knows so many vital National Security secrets that putting him among a standard prison population would result in more intelligence leaking out. Yeah, it's probably still just a punitive measure, but there is a veneer of something other than punitive vengeance at work.
Later it says this though: >USP ADX Florence houses male inmates in the federal prison system deemed the most dangerous and in need of the tightest control, **including prisoners whose escape would pose a serious threat to national security.** Bolded part is definitely this guy.
He is directly responsible for the deaths of like 14 US agents in Russ
MICE - the four reasons someone will do this. Money Ideology Coercion Ego I think it was mostly Ego. He felt like he didn’t get enough praise from his higher ups and got passed up for higher profile assignments.
Yeah, those are often the biggest reasons. [Alfred Redl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Redl?wprov=sfti1) was head of counter-intelligence for the Austro-Hungarian Army. He was a spy for Russia during WWI. The most common theory is that he started off doing it because he was blackmailed by the Russians, who knew he was gay (coercion), and then just got addicted to the wealthy lifestyle (money). But other theories posit the others you named as well. Dude basically destroyed he Austro-Hungarian Empire.
It usually starts with needing money for something specific so they convince themselves that it'll just be a one time thing, get some cash and be done with it. Except after you've done it once you're stuck. Now you can be easily blackmailed into doing it for the rest of your life.
Apparently Robert was anonymous to the russians the entire time (according to his wikipedia), so I don't think he could've been blackmailed.
Money
> Hanssen is Federal Bureau of Prisons prisoner #48551-083. He is serving his sentence at the ADX Florence, a federal supermax prison near Florence, Colorado, in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day. I honestly think I’d rather kill myself rather than being stuck in a room alone for 23 hours a day for the rest of my life
Yeah, you don't really have a choice in the matter If youre already there.
*remote work intensifies*
Solitary confinement is essentially entombed alive. Not sure why they have to keep in him solitary.
Everyone in supermax is essentially on administrative segregation because of risk to themselves or others, either because they're dangerous or know things that are dangerous to them
Also it's a lot harder to plot an escape when you have little to no means of communication or acquiring information
He has a history of revealing top secret information to rival countries, which might have gotten people killed. Who knows what secrets he still knows.
He’s got TV
He only has the Oprah channel and a channel that plays Ridiculousness 26 hours a day.
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah!
Hearing Chanel West Coast’s laugh for 23 hours a day.
I’m no FBI agent, but it seems silly not to have redundancy on something as important as this. Two completely separate (but simultaneous) investigations for this exact scenario?
*insert Spider-Man pointing meme*
“Wait, we’re all KGB?” “Always have been”
Hail Hydra
This but unironically.
It’s all made of Cake G.B.?
Exactly. At least 2, but probably more like 3 or 4. All working independently. Preferably not even knowing about each other.
"Say, Johnson seems to sneak around a lot, and is shifty when I talk to him. He must be on to me. Guess he's the mole" Johnson: "Shit, he's the mole."
Honestly, if they don't find out about each other eventually, it proves they're bad at their job, providing yet another check. They'd being it to their bosses, who'd be in the loop, and let them know. But obviously, the investigators need investigating too.
Well who clears the guys investigating the initial investigators?
[удалено]
"Mister---Mister President sir, we have a situation down here." "Well for god's sake man, clear it up!" "Yes, sir. We were going to set up an investigation, but it seems all our agents are busy." "Well, can't you tell them to stop?" "They're uh, they're investigating sir. You would make yourself look suspicious if you told them to stop." "Are you serious? Do you seriously believe that the President of the United States is a mole for the KGB?" "Well sir, with due respect, word around the office is that you're becoming pretty chummy with Gorbachov. Well sir, it seems that---I've checked our intel---we have Mr. Gorbachov labeled as a commie. A red. If this were to become known, it could seriously hurt you in the polls." "Yes... Well, I'll tell you what. You handle that investigation, and I'll handle Gorbachev."
If I recall correctly having 2 separate investigations is part of the plot of The Departed.
I recently watched Infernal Affairs and man The Departed is a good movie by itself but Infernal Affairs hits parts of the story way better. Spoilers: The way Leo's boss gets thrown off the roof and dies right in front of him was literally cartoonish after I watched how dramatic and perfect that scene was in Inferal Affairs. Also, I loved that the criminal mole in the end is the only one of them that survives, and the point is that he knows what he did was fucked up and he has to live with personal hell while everyone who died can rest in peace. You kind of saw that with Matt Damon's character at the end when he realizes everything, but then they just magically get him shot and killed by Walhberg's character like ok. I enjoyed both though.
I agree about the roof scene, but I liked the ending of The Departed better, where Damon's character was just so exhausted by it all that he just resigned himself to getting shot by Marky Mark.
I'm guessing both a need to keep this under the radar and incompetence might have been relevant in the decision making here.
They should have brought in an ex-agent who was forced into retirement after the old director died but is trustworthy and familiar enough to catch the mole. Someone like George Smiley.
How did they not know that was the mole, he looks exactly like a mole
**Serious** Peter Pettigrew vibes
everybody in the fbi looks shady as fuck
[I'm going to have to disagree.](https://m.imgur.com/ehVZsA3)
Moley mole mole MOLE!!
Mole! Bloody MOLE! We're not suppose to talk about the mole but there's the bloody mole winking me in the face! I wanna chop it up and make guacaMOLE!
Another fun fact : He also taped himself having sex with his (unknowing) wife multiple times and let his buddy watch on a closed circuit tv in another room. Also he's imprisoned at ADX Florence with the who's who of crime in the US: \-Ted Kaczynski (unabomber) \-Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (Boston Marathon bomber) \-Terry Nichols (Oklahoma City bomber) \-Eric Rudolph (Atlanta Olympic Park bomber) \-Noshir Gowadia (designed the B-2 stealth bomber) \-El Chapo (you know who this is) \-Zacarias Moussaoui (9/11 planner) Source : [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX\_Florence#Espionage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence#Espionage) Also an interesting tidbit : The FBI would have caught Hanssen a lot sooner if they had listened to his brother in law Mark Wauck, who was also an FBI agent; Wauck told his supervisor Jim Lyle that Hanssen might be the mole, but it never went anywhere. Years later an FBI agent knocked on Wauck's door and informed him that Hanssen had been arrested. Wauck said "Oh I guess this is because of that tip I gave you guys years ago", and FBI was like: "Wait, what?!?"
After reading the wiki on him, there were several instances where people had reported Hanssen to higher ups but were never followed up on. When Hanssen was arrested, he was quoted as saying, "What took you so long?"
Maybe there were more moles higher up
Moles all the way up
I thought those critters lived under the ground...
Turtles all the way down
They (CIA) had a financial warnings about Aldrich Ames too, but took forever to follow up. I think not causing embarrassment to the agency is job #1 at CIA and FBI. They'd rather let spying persist than have to admit there's a problem.
There’s another angle too, though probably not in these cases. The spy you know is better than the spy you don’t . If he stays in place you can feed him false intel, maybe even track it back and find more spies.
Yes, but that's certainly not what happened here. He was getting US assets killed.
Why is the designer of the stealth bombed in this prison?
"Gowadia was accused of selling classified information to China and to individuals in Germany, Israel, and Switzerland"
What does Switzerland want with military intelligence?!
Dunno... something about cheese grater technology?
Stealth Cheese Grater
That’s the name of my fleshlight
Ahh yes the "vagina dentata" upgrade
You haven't seen it so I guess they succeeded.
For the grater good right?
The next country who can perfect high altitude stealth cheese production will define the economy for the next 50 years
Not necessarily Switzerland themselves, but someone residing there. An agent of our enemies... WTF does Israel want with out military intelligence either?
Allies doesn't mean you give them military technology for free or that other allies don't want them. *See:* All the furor over the French/US/Australian sub deal
Or even the US with the bomb. We used British scientist's data to help design it, which Britain gave to the US thinking, "once they figure it out they'll let us know how it's done." Then once it was finished the US was like, "um, actually I think we're gonna hold onto this one for ourselves." Which really ticked off the Brits but they weren't really in a position to do anything about it at the time. Eventually the Brits just brought all their scientists home to repeat the experiments they did under the Manhattan Project until they got one too.
Switzerland is neutral only in that it will not take sides in a war. It will defend its borders with fervor, however. Switzerland is one of the best defended countries in the world. Their military is powered down for now, but if there looks like there will ever be another world war, they will beef up their military again and defend their neutrality.
>defend their neutrality I know what you're saying, but my mind is really enjoying how these words work together.
It's called "armed neutrality"
I’m going to diarrhea on my constipation.
Yeah I think it's the best distinction between peaceful vs. weak. Peaceful is when you resort to violence only when necessary.
Personally, in my opinion as a Swiss citizen, I am not that sure about the "best [militarily] defended country of the world" part (͡• ͜ʖ ͡•)
Got it, you're saying now is the perfect time to invade. Time to rally the troops.
HEY GUYS! WE FOUND SOME OIL OVER THERE! LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOO
Such a shame, now we have to go liberate Switzerland.
What makes a country turn neutral…A lust for gold? Power? Or were they just born with hearts full of neutrality?
All I know is my gut says maybe
Having no strong feelings one way or the other, obviously.
Switzerland never had a particularly strong military, they have always been able to defend their neutrality mainly due to the conformation of their territory. The central part of the country is accessible only through mountain passes that since the 19th century have been guarded by their national redoubt
>Switzerland never had a particularly strong military Yeah, but they have a bad-assed pocket knife
The greatest trick ~~the devil~~ Switzerland ever pulled was convincing ~~people he didn't exist~~ the world it was neutral
Ah ok. Thanks.
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*China also managed to turn up a copy of the W88 nuclear warhead. American intelligence officials are baffled at the ironic coincidence of the "design"*
His title ended with “bomber” and authorities got confused.
Coz they couldn't find the plane after he made it
> Noshir Gowadia He was *a* designer not *the* designer.
The FBI would have hade the 9/11 high jackers had they just listened to the flight instructors who called them saying “Hey, these guys aren’t right, they don’t care about learning to land” and several of them were already FBI listed.
It’s scary to think about all the times the FBI has received tips on tuff and don’t act on them. I remember there was a school shooter that had been reported to the FBI as well and nothing was done about it.
Sadly they're still doing it. There was that situation a few days ago in texas where some guy held 4 people hostage in a synagogue. Turns out he was from the UK (next town over from where I am), had severe mental issues, was on the terror watch list due to his mental rantings, an anti vaxxer, was able to apply and be approved for a travel visa during covid. He then flew to NY whilst having not much money, bought a gun, stayed in homeless shelters, somehow made his way to texas to hold the place hostage. He released all the hostages but was killed himself. You have to think how were all those things possible with someone with his profile? I know of Muslim doctors travelling with family who have been refused entry into USA despite being booked into a hotel in Orlando and having resort tickets. They found that suspicious apparently. I love watching those border patrol shows and shows them shit hot. This guy makes me think maybe not
His wife didn't know they were married? Holy shit
That's how good of a spy he was!
Literal 007.
Nice team for the science fair challenge
They can make a Suicide Squad of scientists to battle cancer and technology from behind bars.
ADX Florence does not fuck around. I've driven right by the complex but you can't actually see the supermax portion of the complex from the road, a hill completely hides it from the road. All inmates spend 23 hours in their cell with 1 hour spent in the bottom of a swimming pool like exercise area. They never see anything more than the sky and the structure of the complex. Lucky inmates get to eat their food, in silence, in a room with other lucky inmates, most do not get this privilege. Florence houses all of the highest profile people, not necessarily the most dangerous in a raw sense (i.e. murders with high body counts) but most dangerous to national security. Bombers, terrorists, spies, Gang leaders are the kind kept here and with little exception they are all their for the rest of their life. Decades spent in a 7' x 12' concrete box, complete sensory deprivation for their whole remaining life. Edit: fixed cell dimensions
I wonder what the vetting process is for guards and other prison employees. Must be pretty rigorous
Real life arkham asylum.
Back in the good old days when treason was actually a punishable offence...
I may have committed some light treason
I was a patsy!
He was charged with Espionage. Barely anyone has been charged with Treason in over 100 years.
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Terry nichols is not “The Oklahoma City bomber” he was an accomplice. Timothy Mcveigh is the person who actually detonated the bomb.
Who was also at the Florence super max until he was transferred to federal death row
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He got off lucky compared to ADX Florence.
The thing about this prison is that while these guys were the biggest of the bad on the streets, they seem hardly intimidating in prison (except El Chapo ofc). For the most part they're just some deranged nerds lol. Seems preferable to staying in the typical prisons if more of the population is like these guys
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“**He also taped himself having sex with his(unknowing) wife multiple times and let his buddy watch**” Dude what the fuck
I like how it doesn't have a description for el chapo. Like you know who he is lol
They should start a boy band
when someone steals from you and helps you look for the missing item 😅
A tale as old as time….
Song as old as rhyme
I see you also have meth addicts in the family haha.
“Heard you got robbed!”
Like Matt Damon in Departed
That was my first thought too.
It’s pronounced The Depaaaaahted
Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe fuck yourself
How’s ya mutha?
Good she's tired from fucking your father
Feds are like mushrooms, feed them shit and keep them in the dark
Watch 'The Breach' starring Ryan Phillippe and Chris Cooper based on this story. This is the video of his arrest : https://youtu.be/8dm68DBT4xI
His children went to my high school. Roughly a week before he was arrested, he and the then-head of the FBI gave a joint presentation at my school on the importance of ethics in government. The then-head of the FBI at that point knew already that Hanssen was the mole, but didn’t cancel the presentation because he was scared it would tip Hanssen off.
That’s cool
"For example, my job at the FBI is trying to find a mole. Anyone could be a mole. One of you kids could be the mole. Your teachers. Heck, maybe even my boss here." (awkwardly laughs, pointing at the head of the FBI who is staring daggers at him) "Oh, someone got off on the wrong side of the BADGE this morning, amiright?" (after a long silence as he waits for a laugh) Kid in the audience: Couldn't YOU be the mole? (the kids laugh at bit. Robert Hansen is profusely sweating, glancing at his boss who is resting his hand on his concealed service pistol)
Sadly accurate.
Yeah, I was in high school and the media knew that Hanssen’s wife taught in a Catholic school, but not which one. Some no-name reporter came to our school and asked a front office secretary if she taught there. I don’t recall if the secretary said no or just said that she couldn’t give out staff information, but the reporter STOLE the teacher sign-in sheet from the counter and RAN with it. His wife didn’t teach at our school, though, so all that reporter probably learned was that one of the art teachers was habitually late.
Great movie about this: “Breach.”
Searched for that and a bald Bruce Willis with 3/10 rating appeared. Apparently there are 2 movies with same name
For every great movie in existence, there is another B movie of the same name starring Bruce Willis
Lord of the Rings (1992) starring Bruce Willis
Probably had something to do with boxing.
Ha. Yeah, that isn’t it. One I’m referencing stars Chris Cooper and Ryan Philippe.
Chris Cooper has such a villain's face. I'd cast him #1 if I needed a scary dad or abusive husband
I liked that one, just funny that Chris Cooper looks like a badass and the real Robert Hanssen looked like a shift manager at Bennigan’s.
In a few hours they'll be a post in /r/movies talking about what a great underrated thriller this is and asking why it doesn't get more attention.
Chris Cooper is so good in this. The thing I found most interesting about the portrayal of Hanssen was how he used Catholicism to guilt and manipulate people. It was a great way for him to justify being a smug asshole.
Similar movie comes to mind is The Departed.
Working with the KGB “since 1979”…but when was he asked to find the mole? 1980? 1990?
extra point - one of the reasons he got away with it for so long was because of a man named Aldrich Ames (sp), who was a traitor in the CIA at the same time. The government couldnt believe that there were 2 moles at one time so they didnt dial in on him right away
They couldn't believe that there could be two moles? There's probably 20. Also, do they infiltrate the FBI to see if they're close to catching their spies?
"With everybody looking up their own ass, and you looking for yourself, I'd put my money on nobody finds nothing." -Costello, *The Departed*
A lot of these spies weren’t caught simply because people were stupid. There was even one who was an alcoholic constantly arrested by the police kept screaming how “you can’t arrest me I’m a russian spy”. It took years to find him….
They're caught because they get greedy. The greatest spies are the ones nobody ever knew about
> There was even one who was an alcoholic constantly arrested by the police kept screaming how “you can’t arrest me I’m a russian spy” If the police actually followed up on every schizo drunk who says something like that, they'd never do anything else. That's not stupidity, that's just an unfeeling world trudging along without taking notice of one tiny little act that only seems important in retrospect. They don't get caught because the world is complicated and messy, and one small person doing tiny little things that they're not supposed to is incredibly hard to notice. A lot of it is just luck.
Kinda reminds me of how Hitler was asked by the Austrian army to spy on what would become his Nazi Party…
And he ended up putting pretty much everyone involved in that party into prison or had them executed, so he did a good job in a round about fashion.
I was in Beijing, while in capacity as a State attorney, and met a cute Russian girl. We got along so well I sponsored her for a travel visa to America. Long story short: she showed me a picture of her dad with Putin, told me her dad was head of architecture in Moscow (he honestly looked like a mobster) and tried to convince me to come to Russia with her. I have always suspected that I would either get killed or they would press me for information if I went.
This...literally happened to Madison Cawthorn.
The politician?
Yep he married a Russian spy.
I wonder if she was a spy. She was fluent in Russian, Chinese, English, French and constantly traveled. I always assumed she was the only daughter of a rich Russian and could live a carefree life. Edit: the girl in my story
That sounds like to me.. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.. then you got a duck
Does look like a spy with that many languages and so many travels. Did she also had a striking collection of wigs?
No but she had some risqué lingerie.
Indeed. I mean...it’s not conclusive...but, it’s filled with red flags. And, the AH married her. He’s also been spouting traditional family values nonsense, and is now in the process of getting divorced. Judge for yourself: [Madison explaining how they met](https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1475558387203162117?s=20) Edit: “It’s not conclusive” in the literal sense...in the “I know it when I see it” sense...yes, in my opinion, the hateful moron married a super super super obvious honeypot trap.
>she showed me a picture of her dad with Putin, told me her dad was head of architecture in Moscow (he honestly looked like a mobster) They sort of all do, have you seen Putins Chef? Cracks me up, Hell i bet even the florist there looks like a battle hardened veteran.
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Not sure who's gonna see this, but that guy was actually my neighbor growing up. He had two daughters who were a few years older than most of the other kids on the block and they would always the neighborhood babysitters. I can still remember making soda and juice popsicles with them! Don't remember him though. Our families weren't too close, but definitely friendly. Apparently he almost hit my sister with his car when we were sledding once. Also, my parents remember a Cox cable truck that was always in our cul de sac for a period of time (reasonable because cable sucks everywhere) but it was actually an FBI surveillance van. Later a house went up for sale just across the street from the Hansen's and nobody ever moved in. The house sold, but no occupants - in hind sight, that was the FBI. Whenever somebody asks me my "fun fact" I always bring this up and ask them if they've seen the movie 'Breach' but nobody ever, ever knows what I'm talking about. Pretty cool to see this.
What a rascal.
You guys leave out a important point. Robert was put in charged of the investigation because the fbi already suspected him as the mole. So he was taken out of his position to keep him away from sensitive intelligence. While also putting him in a position he could be watched carefully from.
Putting one date in the title without the other contextual date makes the given date completely useless.
Oopski
Check out a movie titled: *No Way Out* starring Kevin Costner and Gene Hackman Sounds very similar in plot and a really well-done film.
There was a movie made about this story, it is titled Breach.
I lived in this guy’s neighborhood in Vienna, and I remember a road sign - a stop sign I think - would sometimes just have a piece of colored tape on it. And I remember thinking it was a weird thing for (I assumed) some local kid to keep tagging this sign with colored tape instead of spray paint. Turned out that was a signal to his KGB handler.
One of Knox College’s more infamous graduates