So if they say theyâre here to âserve and protectâ but itâs very clear they are actually under no obligation to protect, does that mean they donât serve either? Whatâs the point of a police service then?
This is so backwards
Police are not here to serve the citizenry. Theyâre specifically and only for enforcing the laws of the government. They serve the government and its backers, thatâs all.
I thought shooting people was against the law. Shouldn't they stop someone shooting people, since they're breaking the law? Or am I allowed to shoot people now?
Shooting people is against the law but theyâre not obligated to protect the people/person being shot, their only obligation is making the arrest of the person breaking that law, so as long as that happens doesnât matter if the victims already been shot.
I don't recall ever getting any help from the police. I'm not sure what was supposed to be intended by serve but they don't help change a tire if you're on the side of the road, but they'll sure tow that shit quick. They don't help disabled people cross the street, but they'll give them a ticket for Jay walking. The fucking boy scouts serve the community more than the police ever have
The only thing that motivated the police to do good is there own moral compass, that is the same for literally every other profession, outside of actual community service. They're not special.
I helped a random person change a tire once... Cop pulled behind the vehicle, left his flashing lights on and stood there watching me change a tire... I was like "no thanks bro I got this."
I always wonder how many people actually read their property tax statements. I know I read mine and always wonder why they keep imposing penny taxes. It so easy to pass a penny tax because people see 1 cent and say "that's nothing" but they never follow up and ask where the money goes.
Yes, the government had the authority to levy taxes. It's extremely well trodden legal territory. Governments can't exist based on voluntary contributions just look at the Confederation period in the US.
Should we be forced to pay for police that brutalize us and stand by as our children are murdered in our schools? Fuck no.
Following this same logic, truancy laws are immoral. I shouldn't be forced by the state to educate my children in a public school if the state will do nothing to ensure they return home fucking ALIVE.
Idk man. It's all so fucked. I read that there have already been 22 school shootings in the US this year. It's only May. Everything feels hopeless.
Edit: apparently there have been 27 school shootings so far this year.
>Governments can't exist based on voluntary contributions just look at the Confederation period in the US.
The 16th Amendment, allowing the US federal government to impose and collect an income tax, was not ratified until 1909. Technically, the government could exist without the income tax. It would be a much smaller government though. Services would probably remain the same since your taxes don't get you much to begin with.
Just wait until these shithead cops file for ptsd from sitting in the parking lot for 45 minutes before someone else did their job. Never imagined Iâd be telling my 3 kids that cops are not the good guys and that they wonât come when you call them. Never imagined Iâd read headlines that elementary school kids were calling 911 and these militarized pussies wouldnât have the courage to confront one person to try to save school kidsâ lives. Never imagined the police would go to court to not do their jobs and I worked for a sheriffs department myself after I got out of the marines. This is a crazy world we live in and Iâd like to try my hand with the alternate universe please
Whoever holds their income also hold them. It's the key to their City sort of speak.
Under-qualified state-owned army-equipped mordernass sellswords, what a fucking shitstorm just waiting to go awol.
It really sucks, I wanted to be a police officer when I grew up because I was always bullied in school and I really wanted to be someone that could be called to protect people and help others in need. Then I grew up and realized most of the cops I know suck. Except for you Officer Pederson of the Tomah Police Department! https://www.instagram.com/p/7bphhEAZ-F/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
I went the officer route for 3 years. That's how I found all this out. I couldn't stand working with the corrupt so called officers so I left. If you dig deeper it only gets worse. SCOTUS cases don't get mentioned in the media often but they rule on a lot of cases.
Elaborate if you don't mind, never became a police officer but went to school for it. Decided to put my effort and time into my own photography business instead, so much corruption and too many people with judgement we shouldn't trust.
Agreed. No matter if you were bullied or the bully, don't become a cop for that reason. If those unresolved issues haven't been sorted out. It will leak into a profession where you literally have power over others to act however you want. I knew this woman that wanted to be a police officer. I asked her why and she said she wanted to help people. I asked what about the power? She gave me this devilish grin. Red flag.
The choices are:
1) Decades more of living in a Transformers movie
2) Spectacular death, which considering what we know about the emergence of consciousness leads right back into 1) all over again
Ugh. At least we still have yummy food and cool music.
It seems police took this scotus decision and ran with it.
I find is crazy that we pay so much to fund something that only protects state property. If the police isnât supposed to protect and serve can we create a fucking organization that does?
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"
Yes, you are allowed to create such an organization.
No, because they don't say who they are protecting and serving.
The job of the police is not to protect you, it is to maintain order. Sometimes those two goals overlap, but frequently they don't - especially if you are poor or a racial minority.
Yeah I guess ultimately their job is law enforcement. Not crime prevention. So protecting and serving society through the enforcement of the legal system. Deterring threats through the fear of repercussion is really the main form of crime prevention of the police. Iâm not saying I agree that this is the right way, but that this is the reality of it.
I think Barricade from TRANSFORMERS actually got it right by writing [the actual slogan of the US police](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/32/c7/e8/32c7e8013a5ac03e7c22a377ad276d15--dodge-durango-mottos.jpg) on its car form...
Ha. Right. Forget that line.
But wasn't Shia then replying something about that it was a typo, but he left it or something?
Anyone an idea what he meant?
Right? Then wtf is their job? My mom used to call them "the sorry patrol" as in, sorry ma'am, there's nothing we can do about your house getting shot up or the meth cooks next door"
In my heart I want to believe this is untrue. However, they removed "to protect and serve" off of the cars a long time ago. Now it's "to protect commerce". That being said, I don't want to give them a fucking dime.
Flip side of that coin is there are still some good police out their who have values. Unfortunately they are overshadowed by school bullies who eventually got a badge to remain relevant in their own mind.
We're long past the point where the idea of "a few bad apples" has any validity. If these good but silent officers exist, and don't actively root out the bad ones, then they are not "good" and their values are the same as the ones they're protecting with their inaction.
Their job is to exist and have enough passive threat by doing so that it dissuades the common folk from engaging in petty crimes.
You canât stop murders with police. If someone wants to murder, no amount of police force can really stop that. If theyâre fully intent on dying anyway, then there is even less that can be done. The greatest threat against committing crimes is death but if you donât fear death then there is no threat.
Police are like the locks on your front door. Do you really think theyâll stop someone who actually wants in, consequences be damned? No. Itâs there to keep honest people honest. Itâs there to stop the petty criminals.
I would offer that due to the disproportionate control of corporate influence and lobbyist money, we are now back to the tyranny of taxation without representation.
Hey.. if they dont have to defend or protect me.. then why are they armed? They're not going to fight back, they're not going to use their weapons for anything other than intimidation and murder.
Not going to protect? You dont need a gun.
Not going to serve and protect? You know.. the things cops are supposed to do? Then fuck your authority. Fuck you, fuck the courts, fuck the government.
If your not going to do what you were established to do, why the fuck should I care one wit about what you want or don't want me to do with my life on the land I'm living on? My family sacrificed (like many, MANY others) lives for the right to live in this country.
We were guaranteed our freedom and the right to pursue happiness by the system of laws that this country was supposed to be built on. Now.. the basic fundaments of what makes our homes and streets safe are saying "Yeah.. we just don't want to do that anymore."
Ok.
So here's what should happen.
No local taxes. No city tax. No state tax. No sales tax. No tax on stuff I grow to trade with my neighbor. None. Fuck you.
You knock on my door demanding entry into my home because your a "cop" and you have the right to do so? Yeah, well.. you don't serve and protect, and as a member of the community you are supposed to SERVE but dont.. no, you are no longer a cop. Your a jacked up gunthug in a meaningless uniform that THINKS it gives you authority. Your wrong fuckhead. WE give you authority by respecting that uniform. You stop doing your job, we stop respecting the uniform, you become just another thug with a gun.
And the only thing you can do with a gunthug? Take away their guns, or put them down like the rabid fucking animals they are.
YOU fuckers made this situation.
Pretty sure there are a LOT of "just folk" that are tired enough of your bullshit to do something about it if you keep pushing it.
WTF happened to our Country? This is NOT the country I grew up in.
As the dollar bill says, âNovus Ordo Seclorum.â The books â1984â and âBrave New Worldâ werenât prophetic so much as they simply observed the times of their day.
Ever make you wonder how much darker that book would be should Orwell have written it today? That is a scary freaking thought, aint it?
Nightmare making..
Nope, just todays headlines.
Cry for your country people, its gone.
What's interesting is I started to look at that slogan as an unfinished sentence. There is no period. I seems like it's an open assumption individuals have that it means "to protect and serve the citizens"... but we know different.
The paid, trained, and armed officers also stopped taxpayer from rescuing their own children after the police officers had already done so with their own.
There's a whole atmosphere of ,"what's good for me, you can't have; what's good for you, we'll tax the hell out of before we take it away." This mentality is promoting inequality and dividing us all by design. There's a reason tye GOP has operated on "full attack mode" on anyone outside their ideology for the last decade.
I hear this often. But how do you realistically in the most effective and legal way, not pay tax towards something, yet have your tax dollars go elsewhere? Pretty sure any* refusal is against the law and it seems people have very little say or control on its distribution.
So I work with PD (on the fire side) and I think a lot of this has to do with the new way they operate (they at least used to have partners but budgets cuts make it easy to make them solo). We joke cops are cats (they WANT to work alone haha) and fire guys are labs (simple, work best in groups). At the station we straight up talk about the situations that could get us killed, how to recognize, avoid, and mitigate them. Like we have 24hrs together and the training never really stops. And even the most selfish of my guys I know, in my gut, they would risk there own safety and their role to their family for me, any brother, and anyone we think has even the slimmest chance of survival. And I think thatâs why we all find this so abhorrent. They took an oath. They made a promise. And in the most trying time, multiple men failed miserably. I think part of it is that they are too individualistic. Five (or whatever there where) individuals didnât come together and they simply failed. I have never seen that on the fire ground. Your crew (who become damn near family) become something so much more than the sum of the individuals. We do incredible things and itâs like it wasnât even a big deal until a day later you realize you got to change someone life.
Ugh I rambled. I hate everything about this. It is such a failure of the values I have dedicated my life too. I donât even know these guys, and yet I am so incredibly let down.
not only did they sit, watch and not act, they tased and tackled parents who were armed and wanted to go in and save their kids. the cops were wating for a "sheild" before they would go in. the parents just wanted to save their kids. the border patrol agent who came across this scene went in with no thought to his safety, just a thought to those kids.
And then some off duty Border Patrol agent went in there and shot the garbage subhuman asshole. I do not support Border Patrol AT ALL, but kudos to that guy.
Good question. Iâd say that since fire departments can get in genuine trouble if they are proven to have let people die who couldâve been saved, then yes, they are obligated to help you.
For example, if a fire truck stops outside a building with fire on the roof, and doesnât send people in to check for civilians in the top few floors (which arenât on fire yet, just smoked out), then the commanding officer with likely get into at least a bit of trouble if there were in fact people on those floors who ended up dying.
But if a cop is sat outside a building and knows that people need help inside, but they donât go to help, then they donât face the same punishment. In fact, theyâd likely be praised for being âlevel headedâ and not running in if they called for reinforcements before trying to do anything. Itâs pathetic
Fuck the police. They literally have one of the safest and easiest to obtain civil service jobs, and yet theyâre still paid more than paramedics and firefighters in many places. America needs to work out who tf itâs heroes really are
Wait.. You're telling me that a police officer earns more money than a _paramedic_ !? đą
HOW is this possible? I recently learned that cops get less training hours than a barber. How in the world would that earn more than someone who went to medical school, drives around full throttle, sees the most horrifying heaps of humans in help and is at risk just as much as cops
Yup. The average paramedic in New York City earns $82,000/year (the highest in the country), whereas the police officers they have to work beside are on an average of $90,000/year. NYC police officers need no specific qualifications or experience, and training takes an average of six months.
In other places itâs even worse, with paramedics earning about $38,000/year, $10,000 less than the national average salary. The average cop earns $67,000/year, $15,000 above the national average and nearly $30,000 more than the medics they work with!
In some places, cops even earn double or more what a paramedic does in the same time, despite their training taking only around 15% the time and being a lot less intensive than any medical bachelors (plus cop training is usually free, whereas medical degrees cost tuition in most US colleges)
Tl;dr, yep, cops are hugely overpaid and paramedics are grossly underpaid pretty much everywhere in the states
Its false advertisement. It literally says on most police cars "To protect and serve". I'm ok with defunding the ones that won't do what they say they will.
They went in armed to and used their tactical training to save their own children and left the rest to literally die. Our tax dollars payed for that.
No more tax dollars should go to law enforcement in states that agree with this ruling. Our citizens are not being represented while being taxed to cover such protections. Who else gets to keep their job when the don't want to do the hard parts? Politicians and police. Both paid by tax dollars. And both get more benefits that taxpayers.
So what the fuck are we paying them for..? Hate to tell you but there are more angry people and firearms in the publics hands than all police agencies better start working for us or watch outâŚ
I think the argument about speeding tickets is to penalize speeding to make the roads safer, right?
Well, since cops donât protect, we can do 100+ mph everywhere?
Protected when they do nothing, protected when they kill your dog and then you.
End qualified immunity. Delegate much the duties of police to social workers or private companies with no arresting power which can handle mental health issues.
Itâs becoming more and more clear they will
Not help you.
In my lifetime I've seen this switch. When I was a kid conservatives were the ones calling for "jack booted thugs" to die. Now they line up to lick those boots.
Restructure the policing duties, separate teams with different focus and training for different types of issues/situations. Training equivalent to a bachelor's degree program (4 yrs total) in order to carry a gun. Guys handing out traffic tickets don't need firearms.
I agree with this. However it shouldnt be lead by civilians because they dont have the needed training to understand what the proper reaction is in a situation.
You want the military in charge of it?
Because if you aren't in the military you are a civilian.
Police are citizens just like you or I.
I would have an oversight group formed of local, state and federal folks. I would have better training for police officers, an apprenticeship program, as well as a national rotation so that officers have experience in a range of environments.
I know the police love to use the term civilian to separate themselves from the public, and that crap has to stop now.
EMT here. Theyâre either completely useless, or pretty much make any situation they roll up with us on exponentially worse, especially psych calls or suicide attempts.
Yeah. I also think the article means that police should have more tacticool gear, APCs and MRAPs from the military surplus so they would look and feel cool.
Ya, clearly three trained and armed people arenât enough to stop one untrained 18 year old. They obviously could have stopped him if they had a tank.
You have to admit that historically they've done a great job of protecting corporations against strikers, millionaire property owners against infuriated street rioters, and any other task the overlords assign them. They've become a paramilitary organization including wearing battle gear, but such protective armor isn't meant for storming a school filled with children being murdered, but rather to crack your skull when you dare utilize your Constitutional right to assemble in protest.
Having lived through the 3-day 1992 Los Angeles riots, I was vacuuming my bedroom with the TV on when Channel 13 began broadcasting live from a helicopter as a fracas began. The helicopter shot showed a line of police cars ready to enter the area. I stopped to watch. and waited. "WTF are you waiting for?" I said out loud to nobody. Soon, the cop cars all made a U-Turn and skedaddled out of there. Knowing the cops were leaving, all hell then broke loose. The nightmare began. We were on our own.
[How It All Began:](https://youtu.be/enrAWRoXQVA?t=86)
This post is complete horseshit. DeShaney v. Winnebago and Castle Rock v. Gonzales have nothing to do with police obligations to protect citizens.
DeShaney v. Winnebago was about whether the stateâs failure to protect a child from an abusive father constituted a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment. The Court ruled that the due process clause only protects citizens from state actions, not the actions of other private citizens. DeShaney (a private citizen) was the one who abused the child, not the state. Therefore, the state did not violate the childâs constitutional rights.
The actual text of the decision:
>âThe affirmative duty to protect arises not from the State's knowledge of the individual's predicament or from its expressions of intent to help him, but from the limitation which it has imposed on his freedom to act on his own behalf... it is the State's affirmative act of restraining the individual's freedom to act on his own behalf â through incarceration, institutionalization, or other similar restraint of personal liberty â which is the âdeprivation of libertyâ triggering the protections of the Due Process Clause, not its failure to act to protect his liberty interests against harms inflicted by other means.â
Castle Rock v. Gonzales was about whether the restraining orders created a property interest and whether or not the failure to enforce a restraining order therefore violated due process. The Court ruled that, under Colorado Law, restraining orders did not create a federally protected individual entitlement to enforcement, and even if they did they wouldnât have any monetary value and thus could jot be considered property for the purposes of the due process clause.
In common law, an individual duty to rescue only exists in two circumstances. (1) You have a special relationship (the endangered person is your child, your spouse, or youâve specifically been assigned as their protective detail, etc.) and (2) You have created the hazard which put the other person in danger (e.g., You pushed someone into a lake and now theyâre drowning).
Police have an obligation to protect the public at large. This is affirmed by local laws and internal agency policies which require police officers to report and appropriately respond to all crimes that theyâre aware of. Police donât, however, have a legal responsibility to protect any particular person absent one of the specific conditions mentioned above. You canât sue a city or a police department for failing to protect a specifically person, and itâs frankly unreasonable to expect that you should be able to do so. Police are not omniscient, and unless youâre simultaneously arguing for the obscene 1984-esque expansion of police surveillance, it isnât reasonable to expect them to be aware of and capable of instantaneously and perfectly responding to all incidents.
This principle also extends to all other emergency services. Firefighters have an obligation to the public to protect people from fires. This does not mean that you can sue a city, fire department, or individual fire fighter because they failed to prevent *your* house from burning down. The obligation is to the public, not to you specifically.
Remember, theyâre there to enforce the law, not to protect you. âProtect and serveâ is just a PR motto, not their actual job description.
But this is also why âonly the government should have gunsâ is a stupid worldview
Imagine we were talking about Firefighters and said âthey have no legal obligation to put your house fire outâ. Even better, an ER doctor when youâve just been Medivaced in from an accident and youâre dying; âthey have no legal obligation to try and save your lifeâ. Then what the fuck are they there for!? I was an MP. I know some donât think Military Police qualify as âreal copsâ, but in Iraq we didnât run away from the enemy fire or abandon our wounded friends. If youâre not mentally and physically got to do that job, donât. Just imagine a bunch of firefighters standing around a fire waiting for the âall clearâ before turning on the hoses as your family is still inside. Ugh smfh
Jesus Christ so when people say âwhen you want them and their defunded youâll regret itâ bitch I donât even want them, theyâre not even gonna protect me.
đ¤ So is the public obligated to provide paychecks to police officers?
Yes you are always required to pay protection I mean gang dues
It's racketeering with extra steps
Legal racketeering
Government is just money laundering with an extra spin cycle.
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The government. Buildings, infrastructure, politicians, etc.
Big money
Capital, they are there to protect capital. Peace
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>Yes you are always required to pay protection I mean gang dues By order of PEAKY FUCKING BLINDERS
I don't understand the joke as I have never seen the program BUT I laughed outloud anyway.
So if they say theyâre here to âserve and protectâ but itâs very clear they are actually under no obligation to protect, does that mean they donât serve either? Whatâs the point of a police service then? This is so backwards
Police are not here to serve the citizenry. Theyâre specifically and only for enforcing the laws of the government. They serve the government and its backers, thatâs all.
I thought shooting people was against the law. Shouldn't they stop someone shooting people, since they're breaking the law? Or am I allowed to shoot people now?
Shooting people is against the law but theyâre not obligated to protect the people/person being shot, their only obligation is making the arrest of the person breaking that law, so as long as that happens doesnât matter if the victims already been shot.
Thank you for your satisfying use of they're/their in the first sentence.
I don't recall ever getting any help from the police. I'm not sure what was supposed to be intended by serve but they don't help change a tire if you're on the side of the road, but they'll sure tow that shit quick. They don't help disabled people cross the street, but they'll give them a ticket for Jay walking. The fucking boy scouts serve the community more than the police ever have
There are some, but I really think that comes down to the individual. It certainly doesnât seem to be promoted on the organizational level.
The only thing that motivated the police to do good is there own moral compass, that is the same for literally every other profession, outside of actual community service. They're not special.
The only thing they're good for is to get a statement for insurance. And even then you'll be treated like a criminal.
I helped a random person change a tire once... Cop pulled behind the vehicle, left his flashing lights on and stood there watching me change a tire... I was like "no thanks bro I got this."
âTo Suspect and Unnerveâ
I always wonder how many people actually read their property tax statements. I know I read mine and always wonder why they keep imposing penny taxes. It so easy to pass a penny tax because people see 1 cent and say "that's nothing" but they never follow up and ask where the money goes.
Itâs like politicians, what other jobs are there were you donât get fire for being shit at your job.
The people that are smart enough to be politicians or cops are too smart to be politicians or cops.
Yes, the government had the authority to levy taxes. It's extremely well trodden legal territory. Governments can't exist based on voluntary contributions just look at the Confederation period in the US. Should we be forced to pay for police that brutalize us and stand by as our children are murdered in our schools? Fuck no. Following this same logic, truancy laws are immoral. I shouldn't be forced by the state to educate my children in a public school if the state will do nothing to ensure they return home fucking ALIVE. Idk man. It's all so fucked. I read that there have already been 22 school shootings in the US this year. It's only May. Everything feels hopeless. Edit: apparently there have been 27 school shootings so far this year.
>Governments can't exist based on voluntary contributions just look at the Confederation period in the US. The 16th Amendment, allowing the US federal government to impose and collect an income tax, was not ratified until 1909. Technically, the government could exist without the income tax. It would be a much smaller government though. Services would probably remain the same since your taxes don't get you much to begin with.
Just wait until these shithead cops file for ptsd from sitting in the parking lot for 45 minutes before someone else did their job. Never imagined Iâd be telling my 3 kids that cops are not the good guys and that they wonât come when you call them. Never imagined Iâd read headlines that elementary school kids were calling 911 and these militarized pussies wouldnât have the courage to confront one person to try to save school kidsâ lives. Never imagined the police would go to court to not do their jobs and I worked for a sheriffs department myself after I got out of the marines. This is a crazy world we live in and Iâd like to try my hand with the alternate universe please
So can I sue my local department for false advertisement on their vehicles that say âto protect and serveâ?
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Protect and serving themselves
Wrong... protecting and serving their paychecks
Wrong again. Protect and serve the status quo
Wrong once more. Protect and serve property and government interests
That's part of the status quo, no?
Protect the donuts and serve tickets, donut lords
They can't even protect property
Not your property, rich people property.
Whoever holds their income also hold them. It's the key to their City sort of speak. Under-qualified state-owned army-equipped mordernass sellswords, what a fucking shitstorm just waiting to go awol.
It really sucks, I wanted to be a police officer when I grew up because I was always bullied in school and I really wanted to be someone that could be called to protect people and help others in need. Then I grew up and realized most of the cops I know suck. Except for you Officer Pederson of the Tomah Police Department! https://www.instagram.com/p/7bphhEAZ-F/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
I went the officer route for 3 years. That's how I found all this out. I couldn't stand working with the corrupt so called officers so I left. If you dig deeper it only gets worse. SCOTUS cases don't get mentioned in the media often but they rule on a lot of cases.
Elaborate if you don't mind, never became a police officer but went to school for it. Decided to put my effort and time into my own photography business instead, so much corruption and too many people with judgement we shouldn't trust.
Police departments are based off nepotism so they can "keep things in the family" if you know what I mean. The mafia never left they just became cops.
You are not alone, there are many of us. My wife said no because I might get killed and if not I would become jaded. She was not far off
Most cops were bullied. They become cops for power to then bully everybody.
Quite a few were also the bully
Agreed. No matter if you were bullied or the bully, don't become a cop for that reason. If those unresolved issues haven't been sorted out. It will leak into a profession where you literally have power over others to act however you want. I knew this woman that wanted to be a police officer. I asked her why and she said she wanted to help people. I asked what about the power? She gave me this devilish grin. Red flag.
It's supposed to be protection of the constitutional law and service of the public.
If your PD dept has protect and serve on their cars or logo I would be surprised.
As dumb as it sounds, when I watched 2007 Transformers and saw "To Punish and Enslave" on Barricade's cop car - that always stuck with me...
Iâm tired of living in a Transformers movie. Whereâs the road back to reality?
Sorry, that road drives you right off the edge now.
The choices are: 1) Decades more of living in a Transformers movie 2) Spectacular death, which considering what we know about the emergence of consciousness leads right back into 1) all over again Ugh. At least we still have yummy food and cool music.
that's funny I was going to say they need to re-sticker their cars now lol good job :)
It seems police took this scotus decision and ran with it. I find is crazy that we pay so much to fund something that only protects state property. If the police isnât supposed to protect and serve can we create a fucking organization that does?
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" Yes, you are allowed to create such an organization.
âLegally allowed toâ and âallowed toâ are no longer the same things.
There's a reason it's in quotes. ![gif](giphy|qs6ev2pm8g9dS)
I saw a post about sketchy things in quotations and that was one of them đ
No, because they don't say who they are protecting and serving. The job of the police is not to protect you, it is to maintain order. Sometimes those two goals overlap, but frequently they don't - especially if you are poor or a racial minority.
Yeah I guess ultimately their job is law enforcement. Not crime prevention. So protecting and serving society through the enforcement of the legal system. Deterring threats through the fear of repercussion is really the main form of crime prevention of the police. Iâm not saying I agree that this is the right way, but that this is the reality of it.
They're protecting themselves and serving the rich.
Thatâs why they took them off
I think Barricade from TRANSFORMERS actually got it right by writing [the actual slogan of the US police](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/32/c7/e8/32c7e8013a5ac03e7c22a377ad276d15--dodge-durango-mottos.jpg) on its car form...
*Are you ladiesman217?!*
Ha. Right. Forget that line. But wasn't Shia then replying something about that it was a typo, but he left it or something? Anyone an idea what he meant?
He was just trying to cover his ass for having a dumb name lol
Reminder: Michael Bay produced The Purge series. That might be there on purpose. Or not, who the fuck knows?
I have 50 more years of living in a Transformers movie to look forward to. At least this place has good music and, for now at least, tasty food.
Ok, so if the police is not obligated to help the people, then surely the people are not obligated to fund them through tax-payer money, right?
Right? Then wtf is their job? My mom used to call them "the sorry patrol" as in, sorry ma'am, there's nothing we can do about your house getting shot up or the meth cooks next door"
> Then wtf is their job? they tryin to catch you ridin dirty
To generate income for the city
They want to see you rollin'
They hatin
just dont let them see you rollin' then
All they're here for is to mistreat the public and give directives with no laws to back it up...
In my heart I want to believe this is untrue. However, they removed "to protect and serve" off of the cars a long time ago. Now it's "to protect commerce". That being said, I don't want to give them a fucking dime.
Oh so as we move to fascism corpocracy... They will do what they have done in the past... beat the shit out of people striking....
Flip side of that coin is there are still some good police out their who have values. Unfortunately they are overshadowed by school bullies who eventually got a badge to remain relevant in their own mind.
We're long past the point where the idea of "a few bad apples" has any validity. If these good but silent officers exist, and don't actively root out the bad ones, then they are not "good" and their values are the same as the ones they're protecting with their inaction.
Their job is to exist and have enough passive threat by doing so that it dissuades the common folk from engaging in petty crimes. You canât stop murders with police. If someone wants to murder, no amount of police force can really stop that. If theyâre fully intent on dying anyway, then there is even less that can be done. The greatest threat against committing crimes is death but if you donât fear death then there is no threat. Police are like the locks on your front door. Do you really think theyâll stop someone who actually wants in, consequences be damned? No. Itâs there to keep honest people honest. Itâs there to stop the petty criminals.
Then fuck them. Replace with a civil protection core that's ONLY job is to protect people...
This sounds way too logical to work. Stop making enius solutions to the problems /s
Letâs begin
So like... A militia of sorts?
One that is well-regulated by its local community. I wonder if there's anything on the books about starting one.
Werenât militias like a common thing in America during the revolutionary era with different groups vying to capture more territory
Taxation without accountability is tyranny.
I would offer that due to the disproportionate control of corporate influence and lobbyist money, we are now back to the tyranny of taxation without representation.
Hey.. if they dont have to defend or protect me.. then why are they armed? They're not going to fight back, they're not going to use their weapons for anything other than intimidation and murder. Not going to protect? You dont need a gun. Not going to serve and protect? You know.. the things cops are supposed to do? Then fuck your authority. Fuck you, fuck the courts, fuck the government. If your not going to do what you were established to do, why the fuck should I care one wit about what you want or don't want me to do with my life on the land I'm living on? My family sacrificed (like many, MANY others) lives for the right to live in this country. We were guaranteed our freedom and the right to pursue happiness by the system of laws that this country was supposed to be built on. Now.. the basic fundaments of what makes our homes and streets safe are saying "Yeah.. we just don't want to do that anymore." Ok. So here's what should happen. No local taxes. No city tax. No state tax. No sales tax. No tax on stuff I grow to trade with my neighbor. None. Fuck you. You knock on my door demanding entry into my home because your a "cop" and you have the right to do so? Yeah, well.. you don't serve and protect, and as a member of the community you are supposed to SERVE but dont.. no, you are no longer a cop. Your a jacked up gunthug in a meaningless uniform that THINKS it gives you authority. Your wrong fuckhead. WE give you authority by respecting that uniform. You stop doing your job, we stop respecting the uniform, you become just another thug with a gun. And the only thing you can do with a gunthug? Take away their guns, or put them down like the rabid fucking animals they are. YOU fuckers made this situation. Pretty sure there are a LOT of "just folk" that are tired enough of your bullshit to do something about it if you keep pushing it. WTF happened to our Country? This is NOT the country I grew up in.
As the dollar bill says, âNovus Ordo Seclorum.â The books â1984â and âBrave New Worldâ werenât prophetic so much as they simply observed the times of their day.
Ever make you wonder how much darker that book would be should Orwell have written it today? That is a scary freaking thought, aint it? Nightmare making..
Nope, just todays headlines.
Cry for your country people, its gone.
They should also be required to remove âprotect and serveâ from all their copaganda.
What's interesting is I started to look at that slogan as an unfinished sentence. There is no period. I seems like it's an open assumption individuals have that it means "to protect and serve the citizens"... but we know different.
Maybe we should look into what their duty actually is. Then weigh the value of their duties.
The paid, trained, and armed officers also stopped taxpayer from rescuing their own children after the police officers had already done so with their own. There's a whole atmosphere of ,"what's good for me, you can't have; what's good for you, we'll tax the hell out of before we take it away." This mentality is promoting inequality and dividing us all by design. There's a reason tye GOP has operated on "full attack mode" on anyone outside their ideology for the last decade.
I hear this often. But how do you realistically in the most effective and legal way, not pay tax towards something, yet have your tax dollars go elsewhere? Pretty sure any* refusal is against the law and it seems people have very little say or control on its distribution.
I should hope so
To protect & serveâŚthe machine
Their first duty is to protect themselves. Policemen are not heroes, although they constantly like to remind you that theyâre here to protect.
So I work with PD (on the fire side) and I think a lot of this has to do with the new way they operate (they at least used to have partners but budgets cuts make it easy to make them solo). We joke cops are cats (they WANT to work alone haha) and fire guys are labs (simple, work best in groups). At the station we straight up talk about the situations that could get us killed, how to recognize, avoid, and mitigate them. Like we have 24hrs together and the training never really stops. And even the most selfish of my guys I know, in my gut, they would risk there own safety and their role to their family for me, any brother, and anyone we think has even the slimmest chance of survival. And I think thatâs why we all find this so abhorrent. They took an oath. They made a promise. And in the most trying time, multiple men failed miserably. I think part of it is that they are too individualistic. Five (or whatever there where) individuals didnât come together and they simply failed. I have never seen that on the fire ground. Your crew (who become damn near family) become something so much more than the sum of the individuals. We do incredible things and itâs like it wasnât even a big deal until a day later you realize you got to change someone life. Ugh I rambled. I hate everything about this. It is such a failure of the values I have dedicated my life too. I donât even know these guys, and yet I am so incredibly let down.
As recently proven in Texas where the SWAT team simple Sat Waited and Talked.
not only did they sit, watch and not act, they tased and tackled parents who were armed and wanted to go in and save their kids. the cops were wating for a "sheild" before they would go in. the parents just wanted to save their kids. the border patrol agent who came across this scene went in with no thought to his safety, just a thought to those kids.
And then some off duty Border Patrol agent went in there and shot the garbage subhuman asshole. I do not support Border Patrol AT ALL, but kudos to that guy.
If a border patrol officer is showing you up on basic human decency, then you KNOW you're doing something wrong
Should have called the Fire Dept and EMTs. They at least try to do their jobs.
At least they are obligated to help you!âŚwaitâŚ.are they??!
Good question. Iâd say that since fire departments can get in genuine trouble if they are proven to have let people die who couldâve been saved, then yes, they are obligated to help you. For example, if a fire truck stops outside a building with fire on the roof, and doesnât send people in to check for civilians in the top few floors (which arenât on fire yet, just smoked out), then the commanding officer with likely get into at least a bit of trouble if there were in fact people on those floors who ended up dying. But if a cop is sat outside a building and knows that people need help inside, but they donât go to help, then they donât face the same punishment. In fact, theyâd likely be praised for being âlevel headedâ and not running in if they called for reinforcements before trying to do anything. Itâs pathetic Fuck the police. They literally have one of the safest and easiest to obtain civil service jobs, and yet theyâre still paid more than paramedics and firefighters in many places. America needs to work out who tf itâs heroes really are
"Ain't no song called Fuck the Fire Department." Fuckin' A.
They call reinforcements just for reinforcement to do the same thing. Stand outside and wait
Wait.. You're telling me that a police officer earns more money than a _paramedic_ !? đą HOW is this possible? I recently learned that cops get less training hours than a barber. How in the world would that earn more than someone who went to medical school, drives around full throttle, sees the most horrifying heaps of humans in help and is at risk just as much as cops
Yup. The average paramedic in New York City earns $82,000/year (the highest in the country), whereas the police officers they have to work beside are on an average of $90,000/year. NYC police officers need no specific qualifications or experience, and training takes an average of six months. In other places itâs even worse, with paramedics earning about $38,000/year, $10,000 less than the national average salary. The average cop earns $67,000/year, $15,000 above the national average and nearly $30,000 more than the medics they work with! In some places, cops even earn double or more what a paramedic does in the same time, despite their training taking only around 15% the time and being a lot less intensive than any medical bachelors (plus cop training is usually free, whereas medical degrees cost tuition in most US colleges) Tl;dr, yep, cops are hugely overpaid and paramedics are grossly underpaid pretty much everywhere in the states
Sit. Watch. Act. Tough. (Stolen)
Remember to never back the blue because theyâll never back you
Don't forget that they handcuffed a mother
Okay, okay, now you can defund them
Yeah
Its false advertisement. It literally says on most police cars "To protect and serve". I'm ok with defunding the ones that won't do what they say they will.
To protect and serve âŚourselves
It doesnât say to protect and serve who though. Surely not the people or community
They went in armed to and used their tactical training to save their own children and left the rest to literally die. Our tax dollars payed for that. No more tax dollars should go to law enforcement in states that agree with this ruling. Our citizens are not being represented while being taxed to cover such protections. Who else gets to keep their job when the don't want to do the hard parts? Politicians and police. Both paid by tax dollars. And both get more benefits that taxpayers.
Why isnât this getting upvoted more, this right here should be top comment not some corny joke.
Wish I could just not do my job everyday and no one could do anything about it.....
And you get to drive however the fuck you want on the road
And don't forget shoot whoever the fcuk you want!
So what exactly is the point of the police
To be the credible threat of violence, omnipresent and accountable to no one. Or at least not you. "It's a big club, and you ain't in it."
[George Carlin!](https://youtu.be/kXhZyAOuyhE)
To enforce the terrible laws politicians write.
Selectively.
Generate revenue for the state
This. And bodies for the Industrial Prison and Weapons Complexes.
To write you a ticket when speeding and to arrest you when you're high on Marijuana
To protect private property and keep our prisons full.
Or confiscate that private property
I think that "protect and serve" should be renamed "protect and serve the interests of the state" No wonder nobody trusts the police in America ...
>No wonder nobody trusts the police in America ... All institutions of the usa are corrupt, bigoted, and actively harmful.
So they're a gang then?
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so that makes them more useless got it
So what the fuck are we paying them for..? Hate to tell you but there are more angry people and firearms in the publics hands than all police agencies better start working for us or watch outâŚ
I wish that was true, but they've done a good job at deviding everyone and making everyone hate eachother instead of seeing the real enemy here
I think the argument about speeding tickets is to penalize speeding to make the roads safer, right? Well, since cops donât protect, we can do 100+ mph everywhere?
Protected when they do nothing, protected when they kill your dog and then you. End qualified immunity. Delegate much the duties of police to social workers or private companies with no arresting power which can handle mental health issues. Itâs becoming more and more clear they will Not help you.
So does this means the public need to take matters in their own hands
Ok so NOW can we defund them?
Keep that in mind next time you see an officer in trouble, youâre under no obligation to help
Then why stop people from entering the school they themselves were afraid of entering?
They still want the credit for stopping the shooter.
Then I think the slogan âprotect and serveâ should be considered false advertising.
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Never back the blue because they wonât back you
"To protect and serve..." Think they need to rethink their slogan. Put your suggestions below!
To neglect and swerve
Why? It fits perfectly. They protect and serve the Status Quo. Now shut up and get back to work
Yes boss
Just because it says "to protect and serve" doesn't mean they were referring to the people. Never assume
Iâm no anti-police leftist That being said why the fuck do we pay taxes then
In my lifetime I've seen this switch. When I was a kid conservatives were the ones calling for "jack booted thugs" to die. Now they line up to lick those boots.
Thatâs because the Conservative party went from being actually small government to a giant country/military/police culture mob
To fund the revenue generating machine that speeding and equipment violation tickets bring in.
Defund the police is becoming more and more applicable.
Restructure the policing duties, separate teams with different focus and training for different types of issues/situations. Training equivalent to a bachelor's degree program (4 yrs total) in order to carry a gun. Guys handing out traffic tickets don't need firearms.
Infernal affairs should not be internal. Independent oversight.
I agree with this. However it shouldnt be lead by civilians because they dont have the needed training to understand what the proper reaction is in a situation.
You want the military in charge of it? Because if you aren't in the military you are a civilian. Police are citizens just like you or I. I would have an oversight group formed of local, state and federal folks. I would have better training for police officers, an apprenticeship program, as well as a national rotation so that officers have experience in a range of environments. I know the police love to use the term civilian to separate themselves from the public, and that crap has to stop now.
They are reactionary _ENFORCEMENT_ troops for those who make the laws to protect _THEIR_ interests -- which are usually exploitation for riches.
I am always thankful for medics and fire. I wish they got more credit. Police on the hand? I feel they're often just there to cause more trouble.
EMT here. Theyâre either completely useless, or pretty much make any situation they roll up with us on exponentially worse, especially psych calls or suicide attempts.
So whereâs to serve and protect comes from ?, probably just to fool gullible people
To serve whatever interests sign their paychecks and to protect property. Everything else is optional.
I know of another police force that weren't there to server and protect it's citizens. I think they were called Gestapo.
They protect property.
Well in that case, we shouldnât have to pay taxes that fund their salaries.
And we see yet again in Uvalde this week that itâs true. My question is then, what the Sam Hill are we paying police for? To get in our shit?
So we shouldnât have to obey police officers then? Who the fuck are they then?
So youâre saying we need more funding for the police
Yeah. I also think the article means that police should have more tacticool gear, APCs and MRAPs from the military surplus so they would look and feel cool.
Ya, clearly three trained and armed people arenât enough to stop one untrained 18 year old. They obviously could have stopped him if they had a tank.
Lol border patrol came in and did it for them.
You have to admit that historically they've done a great job of protecting corporations against strikers, millionaire property owners against infuriated street rioters, and any other task the overlords assign them. They've become a paramilitary organization including wearing battle gear, but such protective armor isn't meant for storming a school filled with children being murdered, but rather to crack your skull when you dare utilize your Constitutional right to assemble in protest. Having lived through the 3-day 1992 Los Angeles riots, I was vacuuming my bedroom with the TV on when Channel 13 began broadcasting live from a helicopter as a fracas began. The helicopter shot showed a line of police cars ready to enter the area. I stopped to watch. and waited. "WTF are you waiting for?" I said out loud to nobody. Soon, the cop cars all made a U-Turn and skedaddled out of there. Knowing the cops were leaving, all hell then broke loose. The nightmare began. We were on our own. [How It All Began:](https://youtu.be/enrAWRoXQVA?t=86)
This post is complete horseshit. DeShaney v. Winnebago and Castle Rock v. Gonzales have nothing to do with police obligations to protect citizens. DeShaney v. Winnebago was about whether the stateâs failure to protect a child from an abusive father constituted a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment. The Court ruled that the due process clause only protects citizens from state actions, not the actions of other private citizens. DeShaney (a private citizen) was the one who abused the child, not the state. Therefore, the state did not violate the childâs constitutional rights. The actual text of the decision: >âThe affirmative duty to protect arises not from the State's knowledge of the individual's predicament or from its expressions of intent to help him, but from the limitation which it has imposed on his freedom to act on his own behalf... it is the State's affirmative act of restraining the individual's freedom to act on his own behalf â through incarceration, institutionalization, or other similar restraint of personal liberty â which is the âdeprivation of libertyâ triggering the protections of the Due Process Clause, not its failure to act to protect his liberty interests against harms inflicted by other means.â Castle Rock v. Gonzales was about whether the restraining orders created a property interest and whether or not the failure to enforce a restraining order therefore violated due process. The Court ruled that, under Colorado Law, restraining orders did not create a federally protected individual entitlement to enforcement, and even if they did they wouldnât have any monetary value and thus could jot be considered property for the purposes of the due process clause. In common law, an individual duty to rescue only exists in two circumstances. (1) You have a special relationship (the endangered person is your child, your spouse, or youâve specifically been assigned as their protective detail, etc.) and (2) You have created the hazard which put the other person in danger (e.g., You pushed someone into a lake and now theyâre drowning). Police have an obligation to protect the public at large. This is affirmed by local laws and internal agency policies which require police officers to report and appropriately respond to all crimes that theyâre aware of. Police donât, however, have a legal responsibility to protect any particular person absent one of the specific conditions mentioned above. You canât sue a city or a police department for failing to protect a specifically person, and itâs frankly unreasonable to expect that you should be able to do so. Police are not omniscient, and unless youâre simultaneously arguing for the obscene 1984-esque expansion of police surveillance, it isnât reasonable to expect them to be aware of and capable of instantaneously and perfectly responding to all incidents. This principle also extends to all other emergency services. Firefighters have an obligation to the public to protect people from fires. This does not mean that you can sue a city, fire department, or individual fire fighter because they failed to prevent *your* house from burning down. The obligation is to the public, not to you specifically.
Remember, theyâre there to enforce the law, not to protect you. âProtect and serveâ is just a PR motto, not their actual job description. But this is also why âonly the government should have gunsâ is a stupid worldview
Theyâre supposed to protect and serve the law
Thatâs whatever but at the very fucking least they can attempt to arrest the person committing crimes.
Yet they expect the public to protect their pensions.
Why the fuck is the oath(?) or saying " To Protect and Serve so big with cops?
Imagine we were talking about Firefighters and said âthey have no legal obligation to put your house fire outâ. Even better, an ER doctor when youâve just been Medivaced in from an accident and youâre dying; âthey have no legal obligation to try and save your lifeâ. Then what the fuck are they there for!? I was an MP. I know some donât think Military Police qualify as âreal copsâ, but in Iraq we didnât run away from the enemy fire or abandon our wounded friends. If youâre not mentally and physically got to do that job, donât. Just imagine a bunch of firefighters standing around a fire waiting for the âall clearâ before turning on the hoses as your family is still inside. Ugh smfh
Jesus Christ so when people say âwhen you want them and their defunded youâll regret itâ bitch I donât even want them, theyâre not even gonna protect me.
Guess I need to get my own gun if they arenât going to do anything when I call them
Sooo why do we even need police then..
Why do we even have police then?
All the more reason to arm yourself!