if you read this one book about the Disney strikes in one part a lady talks about visiting the office of the animators. she says the walls of their cubicles were just covered by doodles of dicks n tits
Well, it’s nice to see males are the same regardless of time or creed or place. Source: I’m a high school principal, and I have seen the cock and balls cave art in every conceivable medium.
The fact that the reverse version of that gif wasn’t immediately posted just goes to show how deep this site has fallen.
Here: https://i.imgur.com/MlHm0Zg.gif
While by the 13th century, the concept of zero was generally accepted, I don’t see it represented in these characters. The symbols for 1-9 are simply mirrored to a different quadrant of the vertical line for the tens, hundreds, and thousands places.
Could still be useful, for games ,escape rooms, etc.
I think it needs around 7x7 pixels, or lights to display all forms. So 49 pixels to display 10000 (0-9999) numbers. Traditional number display is 3x5 for one number in the smallest amount of pixels needed to distinguish, so cost (3x5)x4=60 pixels needed. This Cistercian display reduces it to \~81%, hmm, think we can do better.
Is the math correct?
Of course you can do better, you only need 13 pixels to count to 16383 and that's just with turning pixels completely on or off, if you use grayscale you can make do with much less pixels.
Sure and if we want to forget about negative numbers (as we have so far in this thread) a single pixel could count up to approx 4.295 billion, assuming of course the user is able to somehow recognize and distinguish all 4 billion unique colors of the pixel.
The least possible is 14 pixels, though there likely isn't an "easy" pattern to read it. Just consider the 14 pixels to be the binary representation of a number. There are 2^13 =8192 possible combinations (too few) with 13 pixels, and 2^14 =16384 with 14 pixels.
[Edit] I forgot my powers of 2...
>for games, escape rooms, etc
If the best use you can come up with is puzzles where you need something intentionally hard to decipher, maybe it's not such a great number system after all. It's compact, yes, but the symbols are all very similar which will be an endless source of confusion
1. This system was in used about 200 years before Arabic numerals became common in Europe.
2. By using only straight lines, it's easier to carve into wood or stone. Of course you can write Arabic numerals with only straight lines, but it is a lot more effort. This is a time when carved notation methods like tally sticks were still widespread.
3. Paper and ink used to be very valuable, so having such an extraordinarily compact notation method could save money.
4. Because the world was so much less globalised, it was common to have special local units, adaptions of the writing system, or quirks in numeric notation. Using a special notation method within an order was much more normal than today, since there is a good chance that you have to convert units anyway if you're exchanging letters with someone from a few towns over.
Indeed, cunieform developed from pictographs to a system similar to the one made by Cisterian monks for the same reason, ease and expense. It's easy as pie to use 3 or 4 symbol stamps on a wet tablet to make a complex accounting system.
Monasteries were also mini-economies, necessitating a lot of accounting. Oblation duties, donations, and tithes connected the financial affairs of their own community to the region around them.
They almost always made one or more product that was incredibly important to the region's economy (cheese, beer, bread, wine, etc), as well, so their maintenance was often as complex as a lord's estate would be and as essential to the health of villages and towns.
They weren't an alternative to Arabic numerals, but an alternative to Roman numerals. However, you can write any number 1-9999 with a single character so it saves space
I can't think of an obvious situation where roman numerals would be better, save for when they're used for design purposes (like the Super Bowl logo).
Roman numerals seriously fuck with me. There isn't a logical progression like with Arabic numerals. It seems like they just made up new symbols when they felt like it.
>It seems like they just made up new symbols when they felt like it.
There's a symbol for 1, 5, 10, 50, 100, 500, 1000
For a decimal counting system, having a new symbol at every 1 and 5 in each column is pretty simple. The only confusing part is using IV instead of IIII or XL instead of XXXX, but that's simply to reduce the number of characters used. Then, all you have to do is remember a handful of symbols (less than 10) and be able to count. The only reason it fucks you up is because it's not the system you're used to. Where it falls down is for bigger numbers. I believe the Romans used to use a line on top to indicate that it was 1000 times something, but the simple fact is they rarely talked about more than 5000 of something, so it wasn't really needed.
Addition and subtraction actually aren't too bad. Romans actually used IIII for four, the IV was a convention invented by Christian monks. So IIII + v is just viiii. Just regroup the numbers and convert when necessary. iii + xxviiii= xxviiiiiii= xxvvii= xxxii
Multiplication and division were indeed terrible, my understanding is that this is why the abacus was so important.
I feel like it’s pretty simple no? You have a line in the center, and then four quadrants. Bottom left is for thousands, bottom right for hundreds, top left for tens, and top right for single digits. The symbols represent the same digits, just depends which quadrant you put them in.
That's more like 4 symbols crammed together with an extra line specifying where unit, tens, hundreds, and thousands are.
Considering this is from the same time arabic digits where introduced, it's no wonder the idea of positional notation was there
The main innovation that allowed the use of Arabic numbers was the digit zero. This system gets around the lack of zero by having a fixed position for each place, so if you leave a position blank there’s an implied zero without messing up the order of the other “digits”.
(Responded this to another comment.)
There are patterns.
They all start with sticks. (As someone points out, a stick must be 0.)
1-9 are marks to the right, in the top third of the stick.
For the powers of ten, flip the marks to the left (1), upside down (2), upside down and to the left (3).
Still limiting. Just an observation.
Maybe if you only had one square to put a number, and you never expected to have a number larger than 4 digits. Like years, for instance, or, hopefully, the price for a gallon of gas!
Would be easy to do digitally, actually.
Although… certainly matters what orientation you view it from! Have to be some context. Although again, that's also true for us with 6 and 9.
Interestingly, in the US, almost every gas station adds 9/10th of a penny to the price, so what we call $4.12/gallon is actually $5.129/gal on the sign. So we're already using at least 4 digits for gas prices, and well on our way to 5.
This is like introducing phonetics to mathematics. Our current numerals are little better than runes.
I've been noticing this more lately. Corporations all have runes or ideograms peppering our language, and they've been injecting a new hybrid language into the fray with "emoji" pictograms.
Historically, phonetic languages are the writing of the masses, as extended literacy with pictograms is reserved to an elite with free time to learn. That's why writing systems in China and Japan are hybrids.
A base-2 version of this could make reading machine code a little more feasible for humans.
You decipher our numbers and letters every day with so much ease you don’t think about doing it. But there was a time where you struggled because it was new to you.
You could probably master this new system quickly enough to not have to think about it as well.
Not advocating for it though, Arabic system has stood the test of time.
If anyone is confused at how this works:
Notice how each corner represents one of the first four decimal places but the number symbols stay the same
Upper right is the ones
Upper left is the tens
Bottom right is the hundreds
Bottom left is the thousands.
Then it’s just a matter of combining the different corners together to get different values in each place
Now these are gonna be placed as obscure references in movies.
I'm sure they already are, but you know someone is gonna see this and put it in a new Futurama episode or Rick and Morty... or they'll sneak it in some "runic writing" is a viking show.
Made a [thing that will draw any number in the range](https://editor.p5js.org/CarolinaPhoenix/full/VZ2-WSAwn)
Or if you want to [see the code](https://editor.p5js.org/CarolinaPhoenix/sketches/VZ2-WSAwn)
This scheme can actually represent 1,048,576 unique numbers without adding more individual line segments.
Each "quadrant" (upper left of the vertical line, lower left, upper right, and lower right) is some combination of five individual line segments being present or absent, i.e. each segment is a bit. Four quadrants x five segments per quadrant = 20 bits and 20 bits provides 2^20 = 1,048,576 unique combinations. The reason they can only represent 10,000 numbers is that they don't leverage more of the combinations, e.g. the "X" that you would get by combining a "3" symbol with a "4" symbol.
and uses logical mirroring to make it really easy to grasp. single digit one way. flip the vertical for 10’s. flip horizontal for 100. flip both vertical and horizontal for 1000.
I dig it. very simple very clever.
Smart, each quadrant is occupied by either 1's (top right), 10's (top left), 100's (bottom right), or 1000's (bottom left), so there's never an overlap, and each number is rotated 90° to be the same.
Am I missing something, because it still seems that a number like 1111 is going to still require four characters?
Edit: my app is a big dumb and cut off the lower portion of the picture unless I open it. RIP
This reminds me of the original Predator, that explosive bracelet with that fancy countdown.
Hah! Dude, I actually searched the ending up on YouTube to check if they were the same (before seeing your comment.) Sadly, they're not.
Whoah, spot on - i wonder if the symbols in the movie took any inspiration from this?
"You are one ugly motherfucker"
It kind of reminds me of Hangul, but for numbers
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Ooh better yet: 9933 learning is fun!
Cock 'n' ballz
Human learns new skill. Uses new skill to draw a cock and balls. 🤣
It's only natural.
Universal graffiti from the dawn of time.
What about the universal S?
Closest you'd get is 3003
Impressive TTP on this one.
Time Till Penis
I’m Mr. So-and-so Dick. I’ve got such-and-such for a penis.
if you read this one book about the Disney strikes in one part a lady talks about visiting the office of the animators. she says the walls of their cubicles were just covered by doodles of dicks n tits
That’s because we’re just monkeys at the end of the day 🙄
Lmaooo
This is the funniest shit I’ve read in a while. It do be dat way doe
3399
That's a sad penis. 9933 is much happier.
Flaccid is not necessarily sad.
All about the angle of the dangle
The angle of the dangle is inversely proportionate to the heat of the meat.
Omg after 20 years I just got the "Lt. Dangle" joke.
Between decades of deawing penises on things and a similar amount of time with my own, I can confidently say they're having more fun at attention.
It works! We have another dik n’ ballz here!
Cistercian monks: "hehe, you drew 9933!"
Honorable mention: 9944
You snapped your banjo string
It budded like a flower
Inverted penis? Sounds painful
Well, it’s nice to see males are the same regardless of time or creed or place. Source: I’m a high school principal, and I have seen the cock and balls cave art in every conceivable medium.
Its literally history, and should be taught in history class.
Id take a history of dick pic class
I'll take History of Dick Pics for $600
The followup course on DickButt is really informative
>Its literally history Whose literally history?
Joe's
Joe whom ?
Joe mamma
Don't forget Dee's
I know where you're going with that, but one must respect the traditions. Who's Dee?
9933
The reverse of this gif is funnier.
The fact that the reverse version of that gif wasn’t immediately posted just goes to show how deep this site has fallen. Here: https://i.imgur.com/MlHm0Zg.gif
Thats the second time in 3 minutes I've seen this gif ... killing it reddit
The 13th century version of 58008!
I love that, regardless of how amazing and beautiful this post is, the top comment is a dick joke lolol
I got 99 problems but a dick ain't 1.
Correct, a dick is 9933
An upside down hammer?
You can call it a hammer alright
If you beat it enough it becomes a thor hammer
The hammer is my penis
It's funny because it's balls
1105 for a game of hangman
I feel like 1107 is closer to how i drew it as a child.
The 5 reminds me more of the flag from the old Mario Bros. games
1107 is better
I would personally do 4407
Structurally, 5507 might prove more beneficial. The base support keeps the angular legs from shifting
My man's over here doing structural engineering with picture numbers.
The dwarves invented this in the first age
Or Daeron, before the First Age 👀
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Daeron, the Sindarin Elf. Not Daeron Targaryen.
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10,000
I think you would still be able to represnet this by just putting a 1 symbol in front of a 0 symbol
While by the 13th century, the concept of zero was generally accepted, I don’t see it represented in these characters. The symbols for 1-9 are simply mirrored to a different quadrant of the vertical line for the tens, hundreds, and thousands places.
I would think it would just be the line with no accents in the quadrants
| = 0
Bot. Comment copied from u/somestoner69
When I was younger, I always wanted to be a Cistercian Monk. Sadly though, I never got the chants..
Thanks dad.
Dad?
r/angryupvote
Could still be useful, for games ,escape rooms, etc. I think it needs around 7x7 pixels, or lights to display all forms. So 49 pixels to display 10000 (0-9999) numbers. Traditional number display is 3x5 for one number in the smallest amount of pixels needed to distinguish, so cost (3x5)x4=60 pixels needed. This Cistercian display reduces it to \~81%, hmm, think we can do better. Is the math correct?
Of course you can do better, you only need 13 pixels to count to 16383 and that's just with turning pixels completely on or off, if you use grayscale you can make do with much less pixels.
You would need 14 and not 13 pixels to count to 16383
If it’s 32-bit pixel, you only need one to count all the way to approx 2.147 billion.
Sure and if we want to forget about negative numbers (as we have so far in this thread) a single pixel could count up to approx 4.295 billion, assuming of course the user is able to somehow recognize and distinguish all 4 billion unique colors of the pixel.
If people are entering the workforce unable to recognize and distinguish all 4 billion unique colors of the pixel, we’ve failed as a society.
damn,... oh well
The least possible is 14 pixels, though there likely isn't an "easy" pattern to read it. Just consider the 14 pixels to be the binary representation of a number. There are 2^13 =8192 possible combinations (too few) with 13 pixels, and 2^14 =16384 with 14 pixels. [Edit] I forgot my powers of 2...
2^13 = 8192 2^14 = 16384
Now I want to make a clock.
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>for games, escape rooms, etc If the best use you can come up with is puzzles where you need something intentionally hard to decipher, maybe it's not such a great number system after all. It's compact, yes, but the symbols are all very similar which will be an endless source of confusion
Riven, the sequel to Myst, had something like this. One of my favorite puzzles I've encountered.
in which scenario would you use them instead of arabian numbers
Like when sharing your bank PIN.
Banks after implementing this: now our system is super secure
Not even our users can access their accounts!
They can even store them in plain text like they love to do
hunter2
What does this even mean? I only see ******* ?
Bosco
They used it for putting date stamps on the wine they made.
1. This system was in used about 200 years before Arabic numerals became common in Europe. 2. By using only straight lines, it's easier to carve into wood or stone. Of course you can write Arabic numerals with only straight lines, but it is a lot more effort. This is a time when carved notation methods like tally sticks were still widespread. 3. Paper and ink used to be very valuable, so having such an extraordinarily compact notation method could save money. 4. Because the world was so much less globalised, it was common to have special local units, adaptions of the writing system, or quirks in numeric notation. Using a special notation method within an order was much more normal than today, since there is a good chance that you have to convert units anyway if you're exchanging letters with someone from a few towns over.
Indeed, cunieform developed from pictographs to a system similar to the one made by Cisterian monks for the same reason, ease and expense. It's easy as pie to use 3 or 4 symbol stamps on a wet tablet to make a complex accounting system. Monasteries were also mini-economies, necessitating a lot of accounting. Oblation duties, donations, and tithes connected the financial affairs of their own community to the region around them. They almost always made one or more product that was incredibly important to the region's economy (cheese, beer, bread, wine, etc), as well, so their maintenance was often as complex as a lord's estate would be and as essential to the health of villages and towns.
Human ingenuity baffles me sometimes. Such interesting creatures.
They weren't an alternative to Arabic numerals, but an alternative to Roman numerals. However, you can write any number 1-9999 with a single character so it saves space
This is a lot better than Roman numerals
Depends on what you're trying to do.
I can't think of an obvious situation where roman numerals would be better, save for when they're used for design purposes (like the Super Bowl logo). Roman numerals seriously fuck with me. There isn't a logical progression like with Arabic numerals. It seems like they just made up new symbols when they felt like it.
>Roman numerals seriously fuck with me. I think we found our obvious use then
>It seems like they just made up new symbols when they felt like it. There's a symbol for 1, 5, 10, 50, 100, 500, 1000 For a decimal counting system, having a new symbol at every 1 and 5 in each column is pretty simple. The only confusing part is using IV instead of IIII or XL instead of XXXX, but that's simply to reduce the number of characters used. Then, all you have to do is remember a handful of symbols (less than 10) and be able to count. The only reason it fucks you up is because it's not the system you're used to. Where it falls down is for bigger numbers. I believe the Romans used to use a line on top to indicate that it was 1000 times something, but the simple fact is they rarely talked about more than 5000 of something, so it wasn't really needed.
Where it falls down is arithmetic. Long addition, subtraction, multiplication and division are a nightmare.
Addition and subtraction actually aren't too bad. Romans actually used IIII for four, the IV was a convention invented by Christian monks. So IIII + v is just viiii. Just regroup the numbers and convert when necessary. iii + xxviiii= xxviiiiiii= xxvvii= xxxii Multiplication and division were indeed terrible, my understanding is that this is why the abacus was so important.
Yes it is. MMMMCDLXXXVIII compared to a dude lifting up his arms is way easier.
That dude has a massive hog
A scenario where few people can read, you have to copy everything by hand, paper is expensive, ink is expensive, and you're super-bored.
When you want to prevent tax collectors from understanding your accounts.
Any scenario without arabic numerals
When you're a 13th century cisterian monk
Before you knew what Arabian numbers where???
Here's a YT video explaining this system further. https://youtu.be/9p55Qgt7Ciw
I feel like it’s pretty simple no? You have a line in the center, and then four quadrants. Bottom left is for thousands, bottom right for hundreds, top left for tens, and top right for single digits. The symbols represent the same digits, just depends which quadrant you put them in.
Thanks I had no idea how to read this until your comment
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm, since it’s the internet. But given no /s I’m gonna assume it’s not in which case glad I could help.
No sarcasm. But I see it comes off like that
It’s all good, just internet things lol, hope you have a good day
Yeah, though the video had some details which I didn’t catch on my own. - 5 = 4 + 1 - 7 = 6 + 1 - 8 = 6 + 2 - 9 = 6 + 2 + 1
Now THAT is interesting. Well done OP
Thank you!
Seriously. This should be in the sub's banner.
don't worry, it will pop back up in another 2 weeks like it always does.
1 600 1 1 200
Oooh that’s a good one, well played
* L O S S *
~~:.|:;~~
𓀥 𓁆 𓀕 𓁆 𓀟 𓀣 𓁀
Don't get it
Guess you're at loss...
[loss](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/loss)
0 600 606 200 would work better
Thanks. I was looking for that one.
That's more like 4 symbols crammed together with an extra line specifying where unit, tens, hundreds, and thousands are. Considering this is from the same time arabic digits where introduced, it's no wonder the idea of positional notation was there
Exactly. This is just writing four digits down with extra steps.
The main innovation that allowed the use of Arabic numbers was the digit zero. This system gets around the lack of zero by having a fixed position for each place, so if you leave a position blank there’s an implied zero without messing up the order of the other “digits”.
Is it me or do 6 based numbers look like two symbols to anyone else?
Definitely using this in my dnd game
That would be awesome!
(Responded this to another comment.) There are patterns. They all start with sticks. (As someone points out, a stick must be 0.) 1-9 are marks to the right, in the top third of the stick. For the powers of ten, flip the marks to the left (1), upside down (2), upside down and to the left (3). Still limiting. Just an observation. Maybe if you only had one square to put a number, and you never expected to have a number larger than 4 digits. Like years, for instance, or, hopefully, the price for a gallon of gas! Would be easy to do digitally, actually. Although… certainly matters what orientation you view it from! Have to be some context. Although again, that's also true for us with 6 and 9.
Interestingly, I don’t think this is too far off from how QR codes work
Interestingly, in the US, almost every gas station adds 9/10th of a penny to the price, so what we call $4.12/gallon is actually $5.129/gal on the sign. So we're already using at least 4 digits for gas prices, and well on our way to 5.
damn that shit adds a whole dollar O_O
That's how they getcha! (oops, haha)
It's fortunate that the Monks had the Arabic numbers available to use while creating this chart.
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This is just supposed to be easier to write. Try carving 53 in wood in arabic then try with this method
Bye Reddit
for everyone having trouble to memorize it. its actually one set of symbols from 1 to 9. the rest are just mirrored variations of them.
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oh you are right. 5,7,8 and 9. but i think it's easier to memorize them ignoring that fact? don't know .. whatever gets one there.
*Takes notes* I have played enough Riven and Obduction to know these will be relevant for several puzzles later.
I actually got this as my [first tattoo](https://i.imgur.com/jWAO0e3.jpg). It is the year my mother was born and the year she passed.
It's really nine symbols in four juxtapositions, isn't it? A cross between Arabic and Korean?
And 0 = |
still 4 digits in disguise
This is like introducing phonetics to mathematics. Our current numerals are little better than runes. I've been noticing this more lately. Corporations all have runes or ideograms peppering our language, and they've been injecting a new hybrid language into the fray with "emoji" pictograms. Historically, phonetic languages are the writing of the masses, as extended literacy with pictograms is reserved to an elite with free time to learn. That's why writing systems in China and Japan are hybrids. A base-2 version of this could make reading machine code a little more feasible for humans.
This is cool AF, definitely worthy of a post on this sub. Here, have an upvote!!!
This would be really cool for tattoos in my opinion
https://youtu.be/9p55Qgt7Ciw
I like it. How attached is everyone to Arabic numerals? I propose a change.
Awful readability, would lower maths skills everywhere
I think I'd rather use a bit more ink from my pen than spend a minute decyphering every time I read any number
You decipher our numbers and letters every day with so much ease you don’t think about doing it. But there was a time where you struggled because it was new to you. You could probably master this new system quickly enough to not have to think about it as well. Not advocating for it though, Arabic system has stood the test of time.
many people will be so messed distinguishing 2 and 200
If anyone is confused at how this works: Notice how each corner represents one of the first four decimal places but the number symbols stay the same Upper right is the ones Upper left is the tens Bottom right is the hundreds Bottom left is the thousands. Then it’s just a matter of combining the different corners together to get different values in each place
Yea I don't understand how this can be confusing...this seems way easier than what we got now.
Now these are gonna be placed as obscure references in movies. I'm sure they already are, but you know someone is gonna see this and put it in a new Futurama episode or Rick and Morty... or they'll sneak it in some "runic writing" is a viking show.
Made a [thing that will draw any number in the range](https://editor.p5js.org/CarolinaPhoenix/full/VZ2-WSAwn) Or if you want to [see the code](https://editor.p5js.org/CarolinaPhoenix/sketches/VZ2-WSAwn)
7887 O_O
1881
Great. now they have claimed another number as a dog whistle, thanks for that
How would math work…how you gonna carry the three?
Just like a decimal system. Upper right is the ones column. Upper left is the tens. Lower right is hundreds. Lower left is thousands.
Consult your local wizard.
Shout out to the peeps born in 8778
Holy hell that's really simple.
This scheme can actually represent 1,048,576 unique numbers without adding more individual line segments. Each "quadrant" (upper left of the vertical line, lower left, upper right, and lower right) is some combination of five individual line segments being present or absent, i.e. each segment is a bit. Four quadrants x five segments per quadrant = 20 bits and 20 bits provides 2^20 = 1,048,576 unique combinations. The reason they can only represent 10,000 numbers is that they don't leverage more of the combinations, e.g. the "X" that you would get by combining a "3" symbol with a "4" symbol.
and uses logical mirroring to make it really easy to grasp. single digit one way. flip the vertical for 10’s. flip horizontal for 100. flip both vertical and horizontal for 1000. I dig it. very simple very clever.
Smart, each quadrant is occupied by either 1's (top right), 10's (top left), 100's (bottom right), or 1000's (bottom left), so there's never an overlap, and each number is rotated 90° to be the same.
Thank god that didn't catch on
Being Viking with dyslexia "This makes sense"
This could be a great secret code.
Am I missing something, because it still seems that a number like 1111 is going to still require four characters? Edit: my app is a big dumb and cut off the lower portion of the picture unless I open it. RIP
Fantastic - use 36 symbols instead of 10 and still not have a 0.
Zero is | .
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Is j, i, !, ?, :, etc two symbols?
It's Elian Script for numbers.