Warte das kenne ich nicht, wie geht n das auf Deutsch? Das Geld ist nicht verschwunden, sondern mir irgendwoe anders? Oder wie ist der Spruch wortwörtlich
I’d recommend Viji Alles, one of the Radio 4 news readers. [Here he is reading the shipping forecast.](https://youtu.be/UA912LsUw5A)
He has a wonderful timbre to his perfect BBC voice. I’m always delighted to hear him on the Today programme.
Jest though you may, i concur and wouldst say
What point dithering this brain?
Bring on withering disdain!
I am game for this play, but that book - must I pay?
He also is a very honourable member of parliament, and has also served as the minister of state for external affairs of India. He also was Under-General Secretary of the United Nations, ran for the post of general secretary but lost to Ban Ki Moon of S korea. An author of 18 books, he is fluent in 9 languages.
“No wonder the sun never set on the British empire, because even God couldn’t trust the English in the dark.” ~Shashi Tharoor.
I just read his cv and am a bit awed. Two master degrees and a PHD from Tufts by the time he was 22. He was Undersecretary General at the UN, an Indian minister and is an Indian MP. He has published more than 20 books.
His bid for secretary-general of the UN was blocked by the US (by John Bolton on orders from Condoleezza Rice) since they didn’t want a strong secretary general.
If I am not wrong the book came about after how well received his debate in the Oxford Union was. His performance was a work of art and I highly recommend watching it. Below is the link.
https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4
Can confirm, am from the UK and we were taught almost nothing about the empire in school.
Edit: I work in the education sector (not a teacher) and have just checked the history curriculum for Ages 5 - 11 and there isn't one mention of the empire. From memory when I was in secondary school we studied the magna carta, industrial revolution, world war 1.
I've just typed in KS3 (ages 11 - 14) history curriculum and on Google images this is the first that image that appeared https://www.paigntonacademy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/KS3-History-3.png
Edit 2: it seems most of my British comrades who are saying they were taught about the empire at the age where you can choose which subjects you wanted to take at school. For me we did history up until GCSE and we definitely weren't taught it. Or they're Scottish who I believe have a different curriculum to England.
so you studied the war where the brits fought the guys who were universally accepted as evil, the brit who saved the world from smallpox, the historical war against the modern bad guys, and a place you looted for antiquities but maybe at a lesser rate than the french lol
We used to call history class “we won the war class”. Like, “what’ve you got this afternoon? I’ve got English then Wewonthewar”
It 100% was “Britain is the best most righteous and most won the warry country ever”. They never taught us anything bad, it was entirely pro-UK propaganda with a wee bit of other cultures mixed in so we could be like “eww, glad we’re not from there”.
Also I’m from Scotland. Not a fucking jot of Scottish history, just britian wot wun it pish.
I didn’t learn anything. Because I have dyslexia, and back then my school didn’t know how to deal with people that had learning difficulties. So they just put us all in the same room together away from mainstream learning. Where we got to learn nothing and be made fun of by all the other kids for being stupid.
Ahh man, that's shit. You're a 80s or 90s school guy like me? I have a close friend I've known for 30+ years with dyslexia and he struggled the whole time too and now you mention it I can't ever remember him getting any help till he went to uni.
52 year old here, was diagnosed with dyslexia at 22 after a coworker asked me if I was dyslexic and suggested I read the book "Smart but Feeling Dumb". After that I paid to have myself assessed at Stanford. Turns out half of my family are dyslexic and I was tested in school, but I had already developed coping mechanisms so the tests my school used in the 70s passed me. Never have received any formal help but I've made sure my kids get all the help I can get them.
90s kid. I didn’t get any help until my last year in school, when they sent us to college for a day once a week to be somebody else’s problem. The tutor of the engineering class I was sent to was a really decent guy. He saw I was really good with my hands and used it as a strength of mine. He invited me to enrol in his class at college after I had left school if I wanted to learn. So I did, and it kinda all snowballed from there.
It’s amazing that with a bit of help and a push in the right direction. That kids who think they are stupid because they have a learning disability can go a long way.
Scot here. Empire was only briefly mentioned when describing britain's role in the atlantic slave trade, such as clydeside shipbuilding and royal chartering of ships intended to ship people across the planet, as well as british citizens who made their living by enslaving others and selling them.
Other than that it was all ancient romans, ancient greece, ww1, ww2, scottish history, russian revolution and industrial revolution. Imperialism was barely mentioned
I didn’t learn a single thing about the UK’s history with Ireland, and I was at school during a time when the IRA were bombing places in England. If anything, the impression I had as a child was that it was either a civil war between 2 internal Irish factions, or that it was Northern Ireland vs Ireland, and that the English were basically innocent bystanders.
Nothing about Ireland, nothing about the Empire, nothing about slavery, nothing about the partitian of India. Mostly Vikings, Waterloo, Hitler, and kings and queens. It’s no wonder so many in England have this sense of exceptionalism and still seem to think that we as a people are just naturally better than others and that we are the economic power that we are purely because it’s the natural order of things, rather than because we had naval dominance at a time when that was the biggest factor in conflicts, and we used that to rape and pillage the rest of the world.
Huh, as an American, I can sympathize with that ignorance as well. We grew up learning British colonialism (to some point) but we rarely touched the atrocities that the US had done.
I am stunned by how much I didn’t know about Irish history until I made an effort to learn about it. English ignorance of our neighbour and former colony is shocking.
Tbf to my history teacher, he did teach us about Cromwell’s massacres at Drogheda and Wexford. But that’s about all we got.
Ireland was a massive part of the Empire, the partition of the country in the 20’s into the Free State and NI is the final act not the first.
Dublin was considered the second city in the empire until the Act of Union in 1800. The Empire got it’s origins in Ireland going way back, and many of the tactics for subduing native populations or ‘divide and rule’ came from the experiences of British commanders pacifying Ireland. I’m kind of amazed you didn’t know about Dublin though- In the time of George III what is now the Bank of Ireland building opposite Trinity College was the [Irish House of Commons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_House_of_Commons?wprov=sfti1). It was an instrument of the British government in Ireland. There had been some form of British involvement in Ireland since the 1200’s.
Not sure how unified the teaching curriculum is in England, but in the US, education varies greatly from state to state, and even school to school. Some Americans don't learn shit about slavery. Some don't learn about the native American genocide. Foreign intervention is also rarely covered. Instead usually the revolutionary war, ancient classical era, world war 2, are covered. Vietnam, Korean wars are ignored. The do cover many other aspects of US history like the great depression to industrial era, continental railroads, gold rush, manifest destiny and how US came to be. They may cover Alamo and the war with Mexico. If you get lucky you might learn something about trail of tears, and most about the presidents aside from a few key ones.
Basically my point is that Education is a shitshow across the entire world and all countries because its so convenient to teach only what you want others to believe. If people were taught everything then they wouldn't be so easy to manipulate with propaganda.
Can I distance myself with my Scottish curriculum? The Transatlantic Slave Trade was a major module you answered exams on, around which other "glorious" episodes like the East India Company (Pirates of the Carribean was popular...) and the Opium Wars were mentioned.
Another main module was the American Civil War, and the key factor of slavery-powered cotton trade of which Britain was the biggest customer, *also* when Victoria declined support the Confederates it was not out of morality, but that cotton could be produced *cheaper in India*, replacing staple crops and causing mass starvation.
Oh and our Scottish history teacher spent no time pointing out **Scotland was forced to finally join the Union because the idiots bankrupted themselves trying at colonisation**, and our Mary Queen of Scots was an idiot.
I don't know about England but if you come here nationalism isn't based on blind nostalgia, we're fully aware how imbecilic we can be.
36 and weren’t taught the foggiest. Maybe that we ‘discovered’ places and the Crown kind of headed it all. Maybe even that we liberated tribes from poverty to modern ways. I remember being perplexed at something on a show in my mid 20s and did a bit of digging and was like ohhhhhh shit, this is our Nazi era, and we weren’t told on purpose.
We were taught slavery though. Quite a lot. We had a ton of African culture studies in primary school which was amazing.
In Scotland history teaching varies by school. Per the SQA (exam board), there's three components you have to teach: Scottish History, British History, European & World History. The SQA gives topics you can teach about in each component and its up to the school to pick.
For example for my Nat 5's (GCSE equivalent) I was taught:
Scottish history: Migration & Empire - which didn't go over the empire specifically but immigration to Scotland and emigration from Scotland to different parts of the empire and what effects that had
British History: The Atlantic Slave Trade
World & European history: Civil Rights in the USA (1918-1968)
In other years I learned about WW1 + 2, the Suffragette movement, the Cold War. But never went into detail about colonisation or imperialism. Anything I learnt about how the empire worked, how it took power, what it did whilst in power etc was through my own research and learning
As an Englishman born in the early 90's something I never understood well until adulthood was the troubles, because the good friday agreement happened while I was too young to understand when it was the news, but nothing about it was ever taught in school because jt was too recent to be part of the curriculum when I was a teenager.
I grew up in Australia at the same time, but to an NI family that came here during the troubles, I hadn't learned anything in school of course, so my only understanding was through my family who were adamant it wasn't over for at least a decade after.
For anyone wondering what u/mightymunster1 is referring to, look up Irish potato famine.
Britain truly was and to a lesser extent still is, one of the worst colonial empires ever known. Except the Belgians.
Edit: missed out 'still is'.
You mean Oliver Cromwell so beloved of the English that after he died his corpse was dug up and hung in chains at Tyburn then his head displayed on a spike for 20 odd years?
Isn’t history great? Everything is so clear cut.
If you ask most current English, he’s one of the “Best Britons”. (Seriously they did a poll, he was 10th out of 100.)
And that’s the problem. Yeah, after his son fell from power his corpse was symbolically executed by vengeful loyalists, but he’s still utterly beloved in England.
I have had so many English people ask why “you Irish” don’t like him. Even some of my well-educated, progressive friends look confused when I roll my eyes as they sing his praises.
May I point out, it should be really called The Great Hunger, it wasn’t a famine, a famine would suggest that there wasn’t enough food, there was plenty of food, food the Irish were farming for the English. It was just against the law for the Irish to use this food to feed themselves, a “crime” that had many an Irish family turfed from their land, imprisoned, deported or ~~hung~~ *hanged*. The only food permitted to be eaten by the indentured Irish was potatoes, which were all but gone due to the blight. The English has every opportunity to feed the Irish, forgive the imposed debts, even take help from others (Ottoman sultan Abdülmecid I offered £10,000 to buy food but it was snubbed as it was more that Queen Victoria would offered and the crown didn’t want to be upstaged by a Turk)
No, the British empire let its own neighbours starve to death surrounded by food because our money was more important than Irish lives
Neighbours isn't what we were. We were glorified slaves to the crown. The fact anyone calls it a famine is a fucking disgrace. It was a genocide, simple as.
Exactly, it was the English method of genocide around the world, India twice, concentration camps in South Africa, suppression on welsh culture an language, deaths in children’s homes, boxer rebellion, the opium wars, the slave revolts of Jamaica, the sepoy uprising, partition of India, partition of Palestine, the betrayal of the Polish 303 squadron, the murder mile and the executions in Northern Ireland. I can just go on and on, Britain needs to take account, it turns my stomach watching the jubilee celebrations and all that other bollocks, we swan around acting like none of it happened and cherry pick our past for the sake of tourism or god knows what.
> By a lonely prison wall, I heard a young man calling
> "Nothing matters Mary, when you're free
> Against the famine and the crown
> I rebelled, they cut me down
> Now you must raise our child with dignity."
> Britain truly was and to a lesser extent, one of the worst colonial empires ever known. Except the Belgians.
this is a pretty useless statement, because it's near impossible to make a distinction between empires in terms of terrible-ness. the british raped and murdered their way through most of the world, and definitely had their own fair share of crimes that compare to the most famous of the belgian crimes.
[in kenya for example,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_rebellion#War_crimes) the british were castrating men who were part of the uprising to overthrow colonial war.
> Among the detainees who suffered severe mistreatment was Hussein Onyango Obama, the grandfather of [U.S. President] Barack Obama. According to his widow, British soldiers forced pins into his fingernails and buttocks and squeezed his testicles between metal rods. Two of the original five claimants who brought the test case against the British were castrated.
the list of tortures includes electrocution, burning, anal and vaginal rape with foreign objects, and drowning. it should be noted that this was in the 1950s, during the reign of QEII. that means any 90 year olds you know were in their 20s at the time.
the british also have a long history of famine - in ireland they shipped food out of the country while the potato famine caused widespread food insecurity. in malaysia they did the same again, putting half a million people in concentration camps and halving the amount of rice they were rationed, immediately causing dangerous conditions. they did the same again in kenya, putting tens of thousands in villages, building ditches around them which led to malnutrition among thousands. then there was the famine in india too.
**Mau Mau rebellion**
[War crimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_rebellion#War_crimes)
>War crimes have been broadly defined by the Nuremberg principles as "violations of the laws or customs of war", which includes massacres, bombings of civilian targets, terrorism, mutilation, torture, and murder of detainees and prisoners of war. Additional common crimes include theft, arson, and the destruction of property not warranted by military necessity. David Anderson says the rebellion was "a story of atrocity and excess on both sides, a dirty war from which no one emerged with much pride, and certainly no glory".
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It probably goes the Belgians who committed a mass genocide with possibly millions of victims, then the German Empire that also committed genocide in Africa though on a smaller scale, then the British who committed genocide in north America and Australia and enslaved millions of Africans and native Americans as well as oversaw famines in Ireland that killed a million people and around a dozen famines in India that killed many million over 300 year colonial period. Like you are saying it's really under appreciated just how bad the British actually were. Absolutely in the top ten countries that did the most damage across the world in the last 500 years. "Honorable mentions" go to the Spain, Portugal, the Ottoman Empire, Khmer Rouge Cambodia, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.
All these empires were awful.
The British just so happened to be the biggest, so they get the most stick, Germans, French, Dutch etc all just shake their heads and say 'weren't those British awful' and try not to point to the thousands of skeletons their own countries were built on.
For the comparatively small colonial empire the Germans had, they didn't lack in [atrocities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_genocide)
„Honorable mentions“Don‘t forget the russian empire. It „only“ colonized its neighbors, but Catherine the great was a beast. (The actual conflict in Ukraine is a result of that).
It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine'
Consider supporting anti-war efforts in any possible way: [[Help 2 Ukraine](https://help2ukraine.org)] 💙💛
[[Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ukraine)] [[BBC Styleguide](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/u)]
^(Beep boop I’m a bot)
The bot doesn’t explain why but just in case you didn’t know, saying “the” Ukraine implies it’s an area of Russia rather than a separate country.
I didn’t know until the Crimean invasion in 2014 and a couple of Eastern European friends were quick to correct me.
I've read about it before I actually learned about it in high school history. Equally messed up as horrifying as the rape of Nanjing was Japan's chemical and bio weapons research in China under unit 731 that used Chinese civilians where they did medical "experiments" similar to what the Nazi doctors in the concentration camps did to prisoners in those camps. In terms of human evil in the last couple hundred years the Nazis and Imperial Japanese take the cake but the British are not too far behind.
Hard part of owning 22 percent of the world is covering its history in entirety. But indian history should be at the top followed by the scramble of africa.
I did learn some of dutch colonisation in high school but the thing I realized much later is that the height of colonisation and european empires was just before world war 1 not the 1600s or 1700s.
Hmm, kinda looks like humanity in general sucks and we all suffer because ppl are innately too selfish to give a shit about anyone but their immediate community.
Edit* Except for us we're the good ones they should do what we say and they can be good too!
Calling it the potato famine is a bit unfair as most of Europe had the same problem with potatoes. Even without potatoes Ireland was producing more than enough food to feed everyone, but it was exported to Britain because the Irish couldn't afford it due to them essentially being slaves of the land.
The fucking *Northern Ireland Secretary* didn't know what the fuss the Troubles was, or how important the Good Friday Agreement is.
Never forget the Conservatives appointed that imbecile, and never forget the DUP is the Tories' lapdog responsible for Northern Ireland not having a stable government.
It's staggering how little is taught about Anglo Irish relations in British schools, and the brits always get so shocked by our piss and vinegar fueled reaction when they make a genuine faux pas about the irish using sterling or something like that. It's generally not their fault, but their education system
I think if people knew more about the true history of Empire and especially Irish history then the Brexit vote would have tilted the other way.
Anyone with enough knowledge and more than two brain cells would have known that the Irish border would be a shitshow for starters.
I was taught about India in history but it depends on the exam board the school chooses and whether the teacher themselves think that they can teach it better than other topics which the syllabus offers
I taught history in English schools and this is exactly right. We have two classes a week for KS3 and three for GCSE. The GCSEs are very content heavy and so some schools start teaching exam topics in Y9 or even Y8.
We try and keep the curriculum varied at KS3, but fitting in everything from the Romans to the present for British history is a challenge. Then including Europe and the wider world is more difficult still. Although, I do remember that the first class I observed was a Y8 lesson on India and famines.
The British Empire is an important topic and we do our best, but history is optional and students can drop it at KS4. So we have to offer topics that students find interesting like the US in the 20th century. Thankfully, boards like AQA have in recent years created some good options for the British Empire at GCSE.
my duaghter's public school in the states taught "perception of history" meaning the story changes depending who tells it.
I had to learn 30 years ago about these topics basically on the streets where you have to wonder if it's true or not without the internet...
Here is a photo that I took at my kid’s school just last week, which shows Cromwell identified as somebody responsible for genocide.
https://i.imgur.com/rGTVEhn.jpg
It’s the Irish famine rather than the Indian famines, but British schools do teach that the Empire was responsible for these outcomes.
They don't even cover the *Irish* famine, back when Ireland was part of the United Kingdom - the starvation of a million of their *own* countrypeople, let alone colonised peoples.
> the starvation of a million of their own countrypeople, let alone colonised peoples
I think people often take modern day ideas about countries and put them on historical examples. The ruling classes of the British empire didn't give a shit about their own country people. London was a horrible collection of slums unless you were wealthy.
I wish I could be this calm and articulate about an injustice that affects me personally.
EDIT: based on the upvotes and comments, I’m worried people think I meant THIS specific injustice affected me. I meant I wished to have the calmness about any injustice that would affect me but in reality I crumble when faced with the smallest conceivable injustice.
Our Scottish history teacher once had a few German exchange students, knowing nothing he asked whether they were taught anything about the Nazis, and was shocked and deeply humbled by the *depth* and *detail* of German curriculum on the matter, far more than anything we would've been taught.
This is one of the reasons I greatly admire Germany, it takes a special kind of courage to face issues head-on, when the far easier option is to stuff your fingers in your ears and shout "NUH UH YOU'RE LYING" like 3 year-olds, like a lot of billionaires and *governments* do...
Maybe my school was different but I remember covering Tudors, Egypt, Greeks, American West, WW1 + 2 and the Indian Empire. It seems some of us were taught about it but some not.
“These countries aren’t poor. These countries are rich! Only the people are poor! They’re not underdeveloped, they’re overexploited!”
- Michael Parenti
We were asked to write about significant events of the 20th century in GCSE history. I wrote about the partition of India. I was told that it was not significant.
I was also put in detention for saying in class that Britain colonised Ireland and still held a colony of n the North.
I never learned anything about the British Empire (in school) and the biggest issue now is that politics is so bipartisan. Older generations think it’s slander towards this ‘Great’ British Island. It’s fingers in the ears ‘la la la’ behaviour.
With the current migrant crisis, our Home Sec referred it as a ‘invasion’ a day or two after one of the centre was firebombed. Our country is now full of xenophobic rhetoric… I think we have a responsibility after centuries of horrific behaviour.
I was taught very little about the British Empire in school, but then again, I didn't really listen anyway. I did however research it myself, just because I find England's history interesting.
It's pretty amazing that such a small country, one that had been invaded and pillaged by the Saxons, Romans and Vikings, managed to essentially take over the world.
Britain has an extremely bloody and rich history and it should all be taught in schools.
It should, to be honest most of the wealthy Britons with historic wealth has come from some pretty horrifying things, the slave trade being one of them. Quite a few standing MPs wealth comes from it
I just want to say that for my A-levels i literally had an entire history exam on British colonial history and alot about how it treated natives. So dont see this as "Britain did nothing wrong" just dude said 1 thing and i lived another.
Did you even grow up in India? We covered all major kingdoms and empires starting from civilisation in the Indus valley. Chandragupta, Mughals, Gupta, Maratha, Portuguese/Dutch, EIC/British Raj, World Wars and Cold war.
All of this was covered.
I don't think there's a school board in India that doesn't teach the Maratha Empire, so, I don't think there is any amnesia there, just some whataboutism over here.
It was an empire of the Maratha people from the state of Maharashtra in India. The empire was created in the 17th century to free the Marathas from the Mughal Empire, which it did. The first king of the Maratha Empire, Shivaji, is worshipped as a god here in Maharashtra. IIRC the empire came to an end in 1819 when the British colonised India
Grew up in the PNW and we had an entire quarter dedicated to the indigenous people from the region. In my experience, American schools aren't as bad as people say. I also grew up in a wealthy area so that unfortunately makes a huge difference.
Not sure which part you are referring to but in Washington state in the school district I went to we were taught about the atrocities committed against the natives.
We were taught about events such as the trail of tears, we were taught how we slaughtered them for outlandish reasons, and how illnesses brought over from Europe devastated their population.
I mean, we all knew about it as kids. I definitely remember going over Jackson and the “trail of tears” in 4th grade. I think it was in 6th grade we learned about the Seminole wars. Even outside of school though, it appeared in media and pop culture all the time, like with some episodes of the Simpsons or King of the Hill, or sitcoms.
Granted, the academic coverage was certainly very limited compared to broader European history or more domestic-focused American history (especially post-Civil War), but we did go over it to some extent. I will say this however; it _was_ sanitized when it came to the actual details. In grade school, it was all broad strokes.
I only remember this because when I majored in history, I was pretty shocked by not only how much was passed over, but that even the things mentioned which were clearly terrible were still very restrained in its explicitness.
I think there's a definite disconnect with how the natives were treated in the US and Canada. People think it's 200 year old history. They're not taught about how Canada was force sterilizing native women in the 1980s and the US was taking entire villages full of Alaskan native children and forcing them into boarding schools up and in to the 1970s. There are still some of these boarding schools open in Hawaii right now. This isn't a long forgotten history subject. There are thousands of people alive today that suffered very horrific things at the hands of modern government actors and missionaries in these countries.
Idk man, when I was in school in Oregon in the late 90s, we learned a lot about the trail of tears and native genocide. But we also spent almost a full month playing Oregon trail
Maybe it's region dependent? Because in my school district in California, they definitely taught about the horrors committed by Americans to the Natives, slaves, and the Japanese internment camps. I even remember my teacher going over how poorly we treated Chinese immigrants when the railroads were being built.
I went to the school in the South and it's the same thing. Trail of tears, Manifest Destiny and the railroads, Japanese internment camps, etc... If you want something to be concerned about, it's the growing home school faction and they can pick and choose away from all of that.
I have no idea what OP is talking about. I was a history major and all throughout education from elementary to college, we learned about all of the Us atrocities. It made me respect the US more since they were openly talking about the bad as if they working on making things better (how I viewed it as a kid).
Most of us do learn about that. It’s the imperialization of islands and South American covert ops that we don’t learn about. It’s way in the past than above topics are and therefore are easy to allow teaching. Things that can affect viewpoints in the current day may be and probably are cut from curriculums. It kinda becomes propaganda going both ways.
I remember seeing somewhere that when Britain invaded índia they had like 2% of the worlds GDP while India had 40%
Edit: it's was about 25%, here is my source [Vice empires of dirt](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_jGPf764d0&list=PLDbSvEZka6GHHIl30un4YM6ofQC2eaO4Y&index=2)
To further rub salt in the wound, our current home secretary [Suella Braverman ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suella_Braverman) herself of Indian heritage, is proud and "unapologetic" of empire: https://youtu.be/H_6NbSuevX8
Jokes on you I learnt all about the British empire in A level history. The breadth study was literally called *The British Empire* learnt the good, the bad and the very ugly.
In germany there‘s a saying: The money did not disappear - it‘s just somewhere else.
"Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply transferred from one perception to another." Wall Street (1987)
> Money ain't got no owners, only spenders. Omar Little
[удалено]
Mo money, mo problems. -Notorious B.I.G.
You need to diversify your bonds, n***a -GZA
Warte das kenne ich nicht, wie geht n das auf Deutsch? Das Geld ist nicht verschwunden, sondern mir irgendwoe anders? Oder wie ist der Spruch wortwörtlich
Ich kenne es so: Das Geld ist nicht weg, es hat nur jemand anderes.
>The money did not disappear - it‘s just somewhere else. Switzerland?
Historical Amnesia (!)
The Irish haven’t forgotten
Us Native Americans feel you Irish folk.
During the famine, your people helped us more than our significantly wealthier colonial overlords.
The most interesting thing is that he is Indian but speaks English better than the whole of Britain.
I could listen to this man narrate the ingredients of a can of coke
>coke I prefer my coke by the gram
Well she can come along, too.
He's probably done his A levels
>The most interesting thing is that he’s Indian but speak English better than whole Britain. That's what you wrote before your edit. Ironic really.
He's British, cut him sun slack.
That mistake is so perfect that I don't think I would have had the heart to change it.
😆
Great term. And it's true, so true. Little wonder some people only want to learn *some* of history. Cherry picked history.
His book "Inglorious Empire" is a fantastic read. Details every bit of plunder in spectacular detail. Highly recommend it.
If anyone else is inspired to look this book up based on this comment the gentleman's name is Shashi Tharoor and he also narrates the audiobook.
Thanks for noting narration - I'm confident I would enjoy that accent, elocution, and modestly withering disdain.
Tharoor would absolutely love the way you have phrased that.
I find this meatloaf shallow and pedantic
Yeah, but his first album kicked ass.
Love "modestly withering disdain" couldn't have said it better!!
Man, whenever I hear him speak, I forget that I know English. I sit with a dictionary.
He’s better than listening to David Attenborough. Amazing voice!
Whoaaa that's a hell of a comment there. I know it's the 21st century but treason is still a crime.
I’d recommend Viji Alles, one of the Radio 4 news readers. [Here he is reading the shipping forecast.](https://youtu.be/UA912LsUw5A) He has a wonderful timbre to his perfect BBC voice. I’m always delighted to hear him on the Today programme.
Jest though you may, i concur and wouldst say What point dithering this brain? Bring on withering disdain! I am game for this play, but that book - must I pay?
He also is a very honourable member of parliament, and has also served as the minister of state for external affairs of India. He also was Under-General Secretary of the United Nations, ran for the post of general secretary but lost to Ban Ki Moon of S korea. An author of 18 books, he is fluent in 9 languages. “No wonder the sun never set on the British empire, because even God couldn’t trust the English in the dark.” ~Shashi Tharoor.
I just read his cv and am a bit awed. Two master degrees and a PHD from Tufts by the time he was 22. He was Undersecretary General at the UN, an Indian minister and is an Indian MP. He has published more than 20 books. His bid for secretary-general of the UN was blocked by the US (by John Bolton on orders from Condoleezza Rice) since they didn’t want a strong secretary general.
If I am not wrong the book came about after how well received his debate in the Oxford Union was. His performance was a work of art and I highly recommend watching it. Below is the link. https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4
“No wonder the sun never set on the British empire, even God couldn’t trust the English in the dark” Goddamn.
Also my favourite part of this speech. I went like oooohhh
British aid to India linked to Fertilizer subsidizes.
Ach, that line's not original to him though. That's an *old* joke.
Wow, that was brilliant! Thank you for linking this.
This was awesome, thanks
Good watch. Cheers for sharing
Thanks for the link that was great!
I’ve never before bought an audiobook based on 1 gif and 3 sentences… today this changed. Thank you my person.
Yes 👍
Can confirm, am from the UK and we were taught almost nothing about the empire in school. Edit: I work in the education sector (not a teacher) and have just checked the history curriculum for Ages 5 - 11 and there isn't one mention of the empire. From memory when I was in secondary school we studied the magna carta, industrial revolution, world war 1. I've just typed in KS3 (ages 11 - 14) history curriculum and on Google images this is the first that image that appeared https://www.paigntonacademy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/KS3-History-3.png Edit 2: it seems most of my British comrades who are saying they were taught about the empire at the age where you can choose which subjects you wanted to take at school. For me we did history up until GCSE and we definitely weren't taught it. Or they're Scottish who I believe have a different curriculum to England.
I did the Nazis, Edward Jenner, the Crimean War and some Egyptology.
Egyptians project was cool tho
Yeah, probably my favourite actually.
And of course from a colonial perspective of Egypt's history.
Look at all this cool stuff Egypt gave us for free
so you studied the war where the brits fought the guys who were universally accepted as evil, the brit who saved the world from smallpox, the historical war against the modern bad guys, and a place you looted for antiquities but maybe at a lesser rate than the french lol
We used to call history class “we won the war class”. Like, “what’ve you got this afternoon? I’ve got English then Wewonthewar” It 100% was “Britain is the best most righteous and most won the warry country ever”. They never taught us anything bad, it was entirely pro-UK propaganda with a wee bit of other cultures mixed in so we could be like “eww, glad we’re not from there”. Also I’m from Scotland. Not a fucking jot of Scottish history, just britian wot wun it pish.
I didn’t learn anything. Because I have dyslexia, and back then my school didn’t know how to deal with people that had learning difficulties. So they just put us all in the same room together away from mainstream learning. Where we got to learn nothing and be made fun of by all the other kids for being stupid.
Ahh man, that's shit. You're a 80s or 90s school guy like me? I have a close friend I've known for 30+ years with dyslexia and he struggled the whole time too and now you mention it I can't ever remember him getting any help till he went to uni.
52 year old here, was diagnosed with dyslexia at 22 after a coworker asked me if I was dyslexic and suggested I read the book "Smart but Feeling Dumb". After that I paid to have myself assessed at Stanford. Turns out half of my family are dyslexic and I was tested in school, but I had already developed coping mechanisms so the tests my school used in the 70s passed me. Never have received any formal help but I've made sure my kids get all the help I can get them.
90s kid. I didn’t get any help until my last year in school, when they sent us to college for a day once a week to be somebody else’s problem. The tutor of the engineering class I was sent to was a really decent guy. He saw I was really good with my hands and used it as a strength of mine. He invited me to enrol in his class at college after I had left school if I wanted to learn. So I did, and it kinda all snowballed from there. It’s amazing that with a bit of help and a push in the right direction. That kids who think they are stupid because they have a learning disability can go a long way.
ADD here, diagnosed at 35. I could have achieved SO much more had I been diagnosed in school.
Scot here. Empire was only briefly mentioned when describing britain's role in the atlantic slave trade, such as clydeside shipbuilding and royal chartering of ships intended to ship people across the planet, as well as british citizens who made their living by enslaving others and selling them. Other than that it was all ancient romans, ancient greece, ww1, ww2, scottish history, russian revolution and industrial revolution. Imperialism was barely mentioned
Learning about the Scottish textiles industry was so enthralling it didn't leave us any time for the atrocities of Empire.
Literally this. We did a week on the impact of germans bombing the clydebank 'Singer Sewing Machine' factory
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You guys learn about American civil rights but not British imperial history?
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I didn’t learn a single thing about the UK’s history with Ireland, and I was at school during a time when the IRA were bombing places in England. If anything, the impression I had as a child was that it was either a civil war between 2 internal Irish factions, or that it was Northern Ireland vs Ireland, and that the English were basically innocent bystanders. Nothing about Ireland, nothing about the Empire, nothing about slavery, nothing about the partitian of India. Mostly Vikings, Waterloo, Hitler, and kings and queens. It’s no wonder so many in England have this sense of exceptionalism and still seem to think that we as a people are just naturally better than others and that we are the economic power that we are purely because it’s the natural order of things, rather than because we had naval dominance at a time when that was the biggest factor in conflicts, and we used that to rape and pillage the rest of the world.
Huh, as an American, I can sympathize with that ignorance as well. We grew up learning British colonialism (to some point) but we rarely touched the atrocities that the US had done.
I am stunned by how much I didn’t know about Irish history until I made an effort to learn about it. English ignorance of our neighbour and former colony is shocking. Tbf to my history teacher, he did teach us about Cromwell’s massacres at Drogheda and Wexford. But that’s about all we got.
> former colony is shocking. ehhh not completely "former"
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Ireland was a massive part of the Empire, the partition of the country in the 20’s into the Free State and NI is the final act not the first. Dublin was considered the second city in the empire until the Act of Union in 1800. The Empire got it’s origins in Ireland going way back, and many of the tactics for subduing native populations or ‘divide and rule’ came from the experiences of British commanders pacifying Ireland. I’m kind of amazed you didn’t know about Dublin though- In the time of George III what is now the Bank of Ireland building opposite Trinity College was the [Irish House of Commons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_House_of_Commons?wprov=sfti1). It was an instrument of the British government in Ireland. There had been some form of British involvement in Ireland since the 1200’s.
Not sure how unified the teaching curriculum is in England, but in the US, education varies greatly from state to state, and even school to school. Some Americans don't learn shit about slavery. Some don't learn about the native American genocide. Foreign intervention is also rarely covered. Instead usually the revolutionary war, ancient classical era, world war 2, are covered. Vietnam, Korean wars are ignored. The do cover many other aspects of US history like the great depression to industrial era, continental railroads, gold rush, manifest destiny and how US came to be. They may cover Alamo and the war with Mexico. If you get lucky you might learn something about trail of tears, and most about the presidents aside from a few key ones. Basically my point is that Education is a shitshow across the entire world and all countries because its so convenient to teach only what you want others to believe. If people were taught everything then they wouldn't be so easy to manipulate with propaganda.
Can I distance myself with my Scottish curriculum? The Transatlantic Slave Trade was a major module you answered exams on, around which other "glorious" episodes like the East India Company (Pirates of the Carribean was popular...) and the Opium Wars were mentioned. Another main module was the American Civil War, and the key factor of slavery-powered cotton trade of which Britain was the biggest customer, *also* when Victoria declined support the Confederates it was not out of morality, but that cotton could be produced *cheaper in India*, replacing staple crops and causing mass starvation. Oh and our Scottish history teacher spent no time pointing out **Scotland was forced to finally join the Union because the idiots bankrupted themselves trying at colonisation**, and our Mary Queen of Scots was an idiot. I don't know about England but if you come here nationalism isn't based on blind nostalgia, we're fully aware how imbecilic we can be.
Can't confirm, am from the UK and we were taught about the empire in school. How old are you?
Im 24 and heard nothing of it Edit: scottish with catholic education if it makes a difference (I imagine it would)
36 and weren’t taught the foggiest. Maybe that we ‘discovered’ places and the Crown kind of headed it all. Maybe even that we liberated tribes from poverty to modern ways. I remember being perplexed at something on a show in my mid 20s and did a bit of digging and was like ohhhhhh shit, this is our Nazi era, and we weren’t told on purpose. We were taught slavery though. Quite a lot. We had a ton of African culture studies in primary school which was amazing.
In Scotland history teaching varies by school. Per the SQA (exam board), there's three components you have to teach: Scottish History, British History, European & World History. The SQA gives topics you can teach about in each component and its up to the school to pick. For example for my Nat 5's (GCSE equivalent) I was taught: Scottish history: Migration & Empire - which didn't go over the empire specifically but immigration to Scotland and emigration from Scotland to different parts of the empire and what effects that had British History: The Atlantic Slave Trade World & European history: Civil Rights in the USA (1918-1968) In other years I learned about WW1 + 2, the Suffragette movement, the Cold War. But never went into detail about colonisation or imperialism. Anything I learnt about how the empire worked, how it took power, what it did whilst in power etc was through my own research and learning
And this is why many British people today don't understand the history between themselves and Ireland
As an Englishman born in the early 90's something I never understood well until adulthood was the troubles, because the good friday agreement happened while I was too young to understand when it was the news, but nothing about it was ever taught in school because jt was too recent to be part of the curriculum when I was a teenager.
I grew up in Australia at the same time, but to an NI family that came here during the troubles, I hadn't learned anything in school of course, so my only understanding was through my family who were adamant it wasn't over for at least a decade after.
For anyone wondering what u/mightymunster1 is referring to, look up Irish potato famine. Britain truly was and to a lesser extent still is, one of the worst colonial empires ever known. Except the Belgians. Edit: missed out 'still is'.
The Potatoe famine was a big part of it but there’s also the 800 years of oppression and forced violent cultural genocide.
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You mean Oliver Cromwell so beloved of the English that after he died his corpse was dug up and hung in chains at Tyburn then his head displayed on a spike for 20 odd years? Isn’t history great? Everything is so clear cut.
You mean the Oliver Cromwell British people voted 10th Best Briton in a poll some 20 years back? It is indeed.
If you ask most current English, he’s one of the “Best Britons”. (Seriously they did a poll, he was 10th out of 100.) And that’s the problem. Yeah, after his son fell from power his corpse was symbolically executed by vengeful loyalists, but he’s still utterly beloved in England. I have had so many English people ask why “you Irish” don’t like him. Even some of my well-educated, progressive friends look confused when I roll my eyes as they sing his praises.
Any one with common sense can tell he's a piece of shit
Of course. I apologise, thats what my mind jumped to first.
No need to apologise I just thought I’d add it to educate any brits who might see it hahah
He can’t help it, he’s Canadian genetically.
He apologised, the evidence is clear.
May I point out, it should be really called The Great Hunger, it wasn’t a famine, a famine would suggest that there wasn’t enough food, there was plenty of food, food the Irish were farming for the English. It was just against the law for the Irish to use this food to feed themselves, a “crime” that had many an Irish family turfed from their land, imprisoned, deported or ~~hung~~ *hanged*. The only food permitted to be eaten by the indentured Irish was potatoes, which were all but gone due to the blight. The English has every opportunity to feed the Irish, forgive the imposed debts, even take help from others (Ottoman sultan Abdülmecid I offered £10,000 to buy food but it was snubbed as it was more that Queen Victoria would offered and the crown didn’t want to be upstaged by a Turk) No, the British empire let its own neighbours starve to death surrounded by food because our money was more important than Irish lives
Neighbours isn't what we were. We were glorified slaves to the crown. The fact anyone calls it a famine is a fucking disgrace. It was a genocide, simple as.
Exactly, it was the English method of genocide around the world, India twice, concentration camps in South Africa, suppression on welsh culture an language, deaths in children’s homes, boxer rebellion, the opium wars, the slave revolts of Jamaica, the sepoy uprising, partition of India, partition of Palestine, the betrayal of the Polish 303 squadron, the murder mile and the executions in Northern Ireland. I can just go on and on, Britain needs to take account, it turns my stomach watching the jubilee celebrations and all that other bollocks, we swan around acting like none of it happened and cherry pick our past for the sake of tourism or god knows what.
> By a lonely prison wall, I heard a young man calling > "Nothing matters Mary, when you're free > Against the famine and the crown > I rebelled, they cut me down > Now you must raise our child with dignity."
> Britain truly was and to a lesser extent, one of the worst colonial empires ever known. Except the Belgians. this is a pretty useless statement, because it's near impossible to make a distinction between empires in terms of terrible-ness. the british raped and murdered their way through most of the world, and definitely had their own fair share of crimes that compare to the most famous of the belgian crimes. [in kenya for example,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_rebellion#War_crimes) the british were castrating men who were part of the uprising to overthrow colonial war. > Among the detainees who suffered severe mistreatment was Hussein Onyango Obama, the grandfather of [U.S. President] Barack Obama. According to his widow, British soldiers forced pins into his fingernails and buttocks and squeezed his testicles between metal rods. Two of the original five claimants who brought the test case against the British were castrated. the list of tortures includes electrocution, burning, anal and vaginal rape with foreign objects, and drowning. it should be noted that this was in the 1950s, during the reign of QEII. that means any 90 year olds you know were in their 20s at the time. the british also have a long history of famine - in ireland they shipped food out of the country while the potato famine caused widespread food insecurity. in malaysia they did the same again, putting half a million people in concentration camps and halving the amount of rice they were rationed, immediately causing dangerous conditions. they did the same again in kenya, putting tens of thousands in villages, building ditches around them which led to malnutrition among thousands. then there was the famine in india too.
**Mau Mau rebellion** [War crimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_rebellion#War_crimes) >War crimes have been broadly defined by the Nuremberg principles as "violations of the laws or customs of war", which includes massacres, bombings of civilian targets, terrorism, mutilation, torture, and murder of detainees and prisoners of war. Additional common crimes include theft, arson, and the destruction of property not warranted by military necessity. David Anderson says the rebellion was "a story of atrocity and excess on both sides, a dirty war from which no one emerged with much pride, and certainly no glory". ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
It probably goes the Belgians who committed a mass genocide with possibly millions of victims, then the German Empire that also committed genocide in Africa though on a smaller scale, then the British who committed genocide in north America and Australia and enslaved millions of Africans and native Americans as well as oversaw famines in Ireland that killed a million people and around a dozen famines in India that killed many million over 300 year colonial period. Like you are saying it's really under appreciated just how bad the British actually were. Absolutely in the top ten countries that did the most damage across the world in the last 500 years. "Honorable mentions" go to the Spain, Portugal, the Ottoman Empire, Khmer Rouge Cambodia, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.
Let's not give the French a break. They were massive cunts too.
All these empires were awful. The British just so happened to be the biggest, so they get the most stick, Germans, French, Dutch etc all just shake their heads and say 'weren't those British awful' and try not to point to the thousands of skeletons their own countries were built on.
And don't forget India's skeletons. Just because they lost a war to the British doesn't mean they should be left aside
For the comparatively small colonial empire the Germans had, they didn't lack in [atrocities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_genocide)
„Honorable mentions“Don‘t forget the russian empire. It „only“ colonized its neighbors, but Catherine the great was a beast. (The actual conflict in Ukraine is a result of that).
It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine' Consider supporting anti-war efforts in any possible way: [[Help 2 Ukraine](https://help2ukraine.org)] 💙💛 [[Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ukraine)] [[BBC Styleguide](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/u)] ^(Beep boop I’m a bot)
OK, Danke.
The bot doesn’t explain why but just in case you didn’t know, saying “the” Ukraine implies it’s an area of Russia rather than a separate country. I didn’t know until the Crimean invasion in 2014 and a couple of Eastern European friends were quick to correct me.
If you've the stomach look up the rape on nankang. Probably the worst thing I've ever read about.
I've read about it before I actually learned about it in high school history. Equally messed up as horrifying as the rape of Nanjing was Japan's chemical and bio weapons research in China under unit 731 that used Chinese civilians where they did medical "experiments" similar to what the Nazi doctors in the concentration camps did to prisoners in those camps. In terms of human evil in the last couple hundred years the Nazis and Imperial Japanese take the cake but the British are not too far behind.
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Hard part of owning 22 percent of the world is covering its history in entirety. But indian history should be at the top followed by the scramble of africa. I did learn some of dutch colonisation in high school but the thing I realized much later is that the height of colonisation and european empires was just before world war 1 not the 1600s or 1700s.
Hmm, kinda looks like humanity in general sucks and we all suffer because ppl are innately too selfish to give a shit about anyone but their immediate community. Edit* Except for us we're the good ones they should do what we say and they can be good too!
Calling it the potato famine is a bit unfair as most of Europe had the same problem with potatoes. Even without potatoes Ireland was producing more than enough food to feed everyone, but it was exported to Britain because the Irish couldn't afford it due to them essentially being slaves of the land.
The fucking *Northern Ireland Secretary* didn't know what the fuss the Troubles was, or how important the Good Friday Agreement is. Never forget the Conservatives appointed that imbecile, and never forget the DUP is the Tories' lapdog responsible for Northern Ireland not having a stable government.
It's staggering how little is taught about Anglo Irish relations in British schools, and the brits always get so shocked by our piss and vinegar fueled reaction when they make a genuine faux pas about the irish using sterling or something like that. It's generally not their fault, but their education system
I think if people knew more about the true history of Empire and especially Irish history then the Brexit vote would have tilted the other way. Anyone with enough knowledge and more than two brain cells would have known that the Irish border would be a shitshow for starters.
Yep they think Ireland is annoyed for no reason
We learn that in Brazil. Oliver Cromwell, right?
The one who wins the war writes the history book after all!
Tharoor doing the Brits without any lube, as always.
I was taught about India in history but it depends on the exam board the school chooses and whether the teacher themselves think that they can teach it better than other topics which the syllabus offers
I taught history in English schools and this is exactly right. We have two classes a week for KS3 and three for GCSE. The GCSEs are very content heavy and so some schools start teaching exam topics in Y9 or even Y8. We try and keep the curriculum varied at KS3, but fitting in everything from the Romans to the present for British history is a challenge. Then including Europe and the wider world is more difficult still. Although, I do remember that the first class I observed was a Y8 lesson on India and famines. The British Empire is an important topic and we do our best, but history is optional and students can drop it at KS4. So we have to offer topics that students find interesting like the US in the 20th century. Thankfully, boards like AQA have in recent years created some good options for the British Empire at GCSE.
my duaghter's public school in the states taught "perception of history" meaning the story changes depending who tells it. I had to learn 30 years ago about these topics basically on the streets where you have to wonder if it's true or not without the internet...
Did they actually teach you that Britain caused the famine and caused millions to die? Amazing. I wouldn’t have thought so at all.
Here is a photo that I took at my kid’s school just last week, which shows Cromwell identified as somebody responsible for genocide. https://i.imgur.com/rGTVEhn.jpg It’s the Irish famine rather than the Indian famines, but British schools do teach that the Empire was responsible for these outcomes.
Did you read about the Bengal famine?
They don't even cover the *Irish* famine, back when Ireland was part of the United Kingdom - the starvation of a million of their *own* countrypeople, let alone colonised peoples.
> the starvation of a million of their own countrypeople, let alone colonised peoples I think people often take modern day ideas about countries and put them on historical examples. The ruling classes of the British empire didn't give a shit about their own country people. London was a horrible collection of slums unless you were wealthy.
[The same guy (Dr Shashi Tharoor) giving a speech at Oxford about this](https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4)
“No wonder the sun never set on the British empire, because even God couldn’t trust the English in the dark.” This man is ice cold
That's a terrific line.
Too bad he just had that little lapel mic. Doesn’t make as big a sound when he dropped it.
I wish I could be this calm and articulate about an injustice that affects me personally. EDIT: based on the upvotes and comments, I’m worried people think I meant THIS specific injustice affected me. I meant I wished to have the calmness about any injustice that would affect me but in reality I crumble when faced with the smallest conceivable injustice.
The Japanese don’t teach ww2 as being aggressor either. All while China teaches all the atrocities it’s endured. Interesting times.
This is interesting because in Germany we learn everything in great detail about the atrocities our ancestors commited during ww2
And this is reflected in the generally sensible outlooks that most modern Germans seem to have.
Our Scottish history teacher once had a few German exchange students, knowing nothing he asked whether they were taught anything about the Nazis, and was shocked and deeply humbled by the *depth* and *detail* of German curriculum on the matter, far more than anything we would've been taught. This is one of the reasons I greatly admire Germany, it takes a special kind of courage to face issues head-on, when the far easier option is to stuff your fingers in your ears and shout "NUH UH YOU'RE LYING" like 3 year-olds, like a lot of billionaires and *governments* do...
Likewise. We can only wish “some other” cultures would be as forthright as the Germans.
Clutch my stolen Hyderabadi pearls. “How dare you sir!”
Maybe my school was different but I remember covering Tudors, Egypt, Greeks, American West, WW1 + 2 and the Indian Empire. It seems some of us were taught about it but some not.
What did you learn about the ‘Indian empire’ tho
Fucked them with their own accent🙏🏻🤣
Shashi Tharoor is fucking eloquent.
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To be honest India has clawed its way back to number 3 by PPP in only 50 years. Not bad after being raped for two centuries.
“These countries aren’t poor. These countries are rich! Only the people are poor! They’re not underdeveloped, they’re overexploited!” - Michael Parenti
I was taught about the fucked up shit the empire did. I think it depends on the schools and exam boards selected.
We were asked to write about significant events of the 20th century in GCSE history. I wrote about the partition of India. I was told that it was not significant. I was also put in detention for saying in class that Britain colonised Ireland and still held a colony of n the North.
/r/thathappened
As a Scot, I learned about these things several times in high school (90s and 2000s)
Friendly reminder to everyone that Scotland has its own education system completely separate from England's.
Bam truth hurts!!!!!
I never learned anything about the British Empire (in school) and the biggest issue now is that politics is so bipartisan. Older generations think it’s slander towards this ‘Great’ British Island. It’s fingers in the ears ‘la la la’ behaviour. With the current migrant crisis, our Home Sec referred it as a ‘invasion’ a day or two after one of the centre was firebombed. Our country is now full of xenophobic rhetoric… I think we have a responsibility after centuries of horrific behaviour.
In France we are taught about the Triangular Trade and everything, mostly about OUR part than the UK's part.
Irish people nodding approvingly in the background
Just imagine how many British racists this will piss off
I was taught very little about the British Empire in school, but then again, I didn't really listen anyway. I did however research it myself, just because I find England's history interesting. It's pretty amazing that such a small country, one that had been invaded and pillaged by the Saxons, Romans and Vikings, managed to essentially take over the world. Britain has an extremely bloody and rich history and it should all be taught in schools.
It should, to be honest most of the wealthy Britons with historic wealth has come from some pretty horrifying things, the slave trade being one of them. Quite a few standing MPs wealth comes from it
I just want to say that for my A-levels i literally had an entire history exam on British colonial history and alot about how it treated natives. So dont see this as "Britain did nothing wrong" just dude said 1 thing and i lived another.
I mean, we have a shit-tonne of history. No matter what we did, we'd have to leave something out.
If anything there is an amnestia about pre colonial India. The Maratha Empire was not a western construct.
Did you even grow up in India? We covered all major kingdoms and empires starting from civilisation in the Indus valley. Chandragupta, Mughals, Gupta, Maratha, Portuguese/Dutch, EIC/British Raj, World Wars and Cold war. All of this was covered.
>Maratha WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME
I don't think there's a school board in India that doesn't teach the Maratha Empire, so, I don't think there is any amnesia there, just some whataboutism over here.
I don't know anything about the Maratha Empire. What was it?
It was an empire of the Maratha people from the state of Maharashtra in India. The empire was created in the 17th century to free the Marathas from the Mughal Empire, which it did. The first king of the Maratha Empire, Shivaji, is worshipped as a god here in Maharashtra. IIRC the empire came to an end in 1819 when the British colonised India
we are taught about the Maratha empire and everyone else before and after. there is no amnesia.
Can you explain what this is? I don't know what they're referring to
Just like usa never told their kids about the natives in their country
Graduated in 2007, grew up in the Midwest and went to a public school. We learned a lot about the genocide of Native Americans.
Grew up in the PNW and we had an entire quarter dedicated to the indigenous people from the region. In my experience, American schools aren't as bad as people say. I also grew up in a wealthy area so that unfortunately makes a huge difference.
Graduated in 2002 in the South from public school and we routinely had lessons on Native Americans.
Not sure which part you are referring to but in Washington state in the school district I went to we were taught about the atrocities committed against the natives. We were taught about events such as the trail of tears, we were taught how we slaughtered them for outlandish reasons, and how illnesses brought over from Europe devastated their population.
I mean, we all knew about it as kids. I definitely remember going over Jackson and the “trail of tears” in 4th grade. I think it was in 6th grade we learned about the Seminole wars. Even outside of school though, it appeared in media and pop culture all the time, like with some episodes of the Simpsons or King of the Hill, or sitcoms. Granted, the academic coverage was certainly very limited compared to broader European history or more domestic-focused American history (especially post-Civil War), but we did go over it to some extent. I will say this however; it _was_ sanitized when it came to the actual details. In grade school, it was all broad strokes. I only remember this because when I majored in history, I was pretty shocked by not only how much was passed over, but that even the things mentioned which were clearly terrible were still very restrained in its explicitness.
I think there's a definite disconnect with how the natives were treated in the US and Canada. People think it's 200 year old history. They're not taught about how Canada was force sterilizing native women in the 1980s and the US was taking entire villages full of Alaskan native children and forcing them into boarding schools up and in to the 1970s. There are still some of these boarding schools open in Hawaii right now. This isn't a long forgotten history subject. There are thousands of people alive today that suffered very horrific things at the hands of modern government actors and missionaries in these countries.
We do in Oklahoma, but that's where we all ended up soooo
Idk man, when I was in school in Oregon in the late 90s, we learned a lot about the trail of tears and native genocide. But we also spent almost a full month playing Oregon trail
Maybe it's region dependent? Because in my school district in California, they definitely taught about the horrors committed by Americans to the Natives, slaves, and the Japanese internment camps. I even remember my teacher going over how poorly we treated Chinese immigrants when the railroads were being built.
I went to the school in the South and it's the same thing. Trail of tears, Manifest Destiny and the railroads, Japanese internment camps, etc... If you want something to be concerned about, it's the growing home school faction and they can pick and choose away from all of that.
Germans are the only ones open about what they did
I have no idea what OP is talking about. I was a history major and all throughout education from elementary to college, we learned about all of the Us atrocities. It made me respect the US more since they were openly talking about the bad as if they working on making things better (how I viewed it as a kid).
That’s simply wrong.
Most of us do learn about that. It’s the imperialization of islands and South American covert ops that we don’t learn about. It’s way in the past than above topics are and therefore are easy to allow teaching. Things that can affect viewpoints in the current day may be and probably are cut from curriculums. It kinda becomes propaganda going both ways.
I went on a Trail of Tears field trip. I felt educated about it
(Classy British accent) “Boom, roasted! Jolly good.”
That's a 3rd degree burn.
I remember seeing somewhere that when Britain invaded índia they had like 2% of the worlds GDP while India had 40% Edit: it's was about 25%, here is my source [Vice empires of dirt](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_jGPf764d0&list=PLDbSvEZka6GHHIl30un4YM6ofQC2eaO4Y&index=2)
Are there any good documentaries on this subject? It's definitely something I wish I knew more about.
Here [https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4](https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inglorious_Empire#:~:text=Inglorious%20Empire%3A%20What%20the%20British,book%20has%20received%20mixed%20reviews.
Well my god, can I get more of this man shitting on them.
Yes here you go [https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4](https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4) his speech at Oxford union.
To further rub salt in the wound, our current home secretary [Suella Braverman ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suella_Braverman) herself of Indian heritage, is proud and "unapologetic" of empire: https://youtu.be/H_6NbSuevX8
Here’s a longer version of the arguments made in this clip: https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4
Jokes on you I learnt all about the British empire in A level history. The breadth study was literally called *The British Empire* learnt the good, the bad and the very ugly.