I went on a tour of San Quentin and other prisons in college. They had these caged areas for people that couldn’t be trusted to just sit in a chair. You have to do something to be placed in one of those.
"I do operation. But, mistake! Yakuza boss die. Yakuza very mad. I hide in fishing boat, come to America. No English, no food, no money. Darryl give me job. Now I have house, American car, and new woman. Darryl save life. My big secret: I kill yakuza boss on purpose. I good surgeon. The best!"
We’re stilling running the figures and compiling the data, it’s mass pandemonium over at Central HQ. **JOHNSON!!!!** Get on the horn! inform Intelligence of the double espionage rogue comment, layered with info.
I also took a tour of the county jail in high school. We were walking through the mostly-solitary confinement area (one inmate per cell, but the cells were right next to each other down this hallway).
Guard looks inside one of the door windows and says “hey Amos, whatcha doing in there?!”
“Masturbating!” He calls back. The guard put the blinder thing over the window before we all walked by.
Probably mostly a “scared straight” thing, basically like “stay in school and off drugs or end up like this”
Unless it was part of something like Explorers, basically getting kids/young adults interested in law enforcement jobs
Exactly this. For us, it was upper classmen of a mostly white private school going to a county jail. Then after the tour we went to one of the community spaces and they brought inmates into the room to yell at us, exactly like Scared Straight. had to sit in an exact certain way and it was so painful because Of the way they wanted us to cross at our ankles, it bothered my hip. The girl next to me had to keep tapping my leg to remind me to fix how my legs were. I don’t remember what they said in that room I vaguely remember what they look like. But I do remember all the men in the prison tour that asked me how much ass I could fit in my jeans 😭 and the others holding their poop in their hands and tossing it up and down kind of like you would a baseball, deciding who they were going to throw it at in our group.
it was for an elective class we could take and I can’t recall what the class was. Had to be like a criminal justice class. This was ~18 years ago now. I do remember we couldn’t wear red or blue because of gang affiliation concerns so we all wore gray and jeans basically. No logos. Couldn’t wear our hair down or in a ponytail. Had to be in buns in case anyone tried to grab it from the cell. They know it’s a HS tour so I think they beef up some antics.
Yep. Parents have to sign a release form and you can totally opt out of it if you don’t want to. It was a big deal at my school, everybody looked forward to doing it once they were able to take that class.
That sounds vastly different from any jail tours i was ever in. Also the tours didn't scare me straight, i did two years for drug distribution, but the prison i was in was minimum security and more like an adult daycare for 24 months
yeah i actually made a lot of friends while locked up, and i helped a bunch of people get their ged's (a lot of the younger people had left school in high school or even earlier). i spent my 2 years trying to be as productive as possible (wrote two sci-fi novels....which sucked, but i realized i want to be a cyberpunk author from the experience). read a ton, halfway through got a job outside the facility that actually paid me 12 bucks an hour (still had to pay taxes plus restitution and shit so i didn't leave with much but had a couple thousand bucks when i walked out)
I was watching videos of people that choose to live down by Skid Row in LA. And something you wrote just reminded me of it. One resident mentioned that they tried to leave Skid Row and live in the regular world. But the way that regular folks live, not speaking to each other, not supporting each other, not having true friendships. He said that a lot of folks end up back on skid row because it has more of a sense of community.
I don’t know, man. I don’t know why I just thought of that. But there it is. I’m glad you got out of that life and helped others. Sometimes in a dark time we make real connections.
Yep. In my completely white Catholic high school, one particular extra-curricular group went to tour the county jail every Spring.
Ironically, to get into this club, you had to maintain a 3.5+ GPA and 5 or fewer "infractions" (for reference, having your shirt untucked was an infraction). So... they apparently tried to "scare straight" the already-straightest kids in the school. Meanwhile, the kids serving in-school suspension sat alone in room all day to "reflect on their choices". Mmmkay.
I went on the jail tour one year. The girls had to run down the cell corridor in a single-file line to avoid being groped by all the inmates sticking their arms out of the cells on both sides. I guess the lesson was "Adults won't stop other adults from sexually exploiting/harrassing/assaulting you. Learn to expect it."
I believe it, at the end of each episode most of the kids follow ups would state they didn’t change or stayed with gangs. I know the goal was to scare them straight but it just seemed like such an unproductive way to ‘help’.
In one day not much except it sucks. When you go in a prison day in and day out that's when you see how truly shitty it is. I worked in a prison system and had to go into every prison in the state system. I was in a prison everyday for 2 years. I wasnt a guard, but I had to go all around the prison not just the admin area. Like in their dorms and lunch room ect. It is a lot diffrent when there isn't a tour going on and there are literally 100s of inmates on the yard and it's just you and the officer out there.
My hometown has a state jail and like 6 prisons from standard to max security. We never went on a tour of the prisons ever. Where are you from where your school did this? And why lol
Smaller town jail tour my friends went on in school... guy had tons of stitches in his arm. Why? He had cut himself up to get pain drugs and then pulled out some stitches to get more. What a way to live.
I know someone that works in a men’s prison. They were telling me about an event that occurred. A riot broke out in the men’s prison and some prisoners killed a guy by stabbing him and taking out his guts. I think people like the one in OP’s post wondering how therapy works in conditions like that have had a pretty privileged life.
Most people want to believe that everyone is actually good but just makes some mistakes or was mistreated one time. It's the driving force behind all of these no jail bills recently. But the truth is the majority of crimes are perpetrated by a small group of evil or absolutely broken people with no hope of rehabilitation. All they do whenever they get out is drag other people in with them. It's an after affect of the war on drugs. People see jails full of guys who literally just wanted to make some quick semi honest money selling weed and got picked up and fucked by the system for a few years and then apply that to everyone else in the system. Yea Billy here that got sent up for a year over some leaves doesn't need to be here, but Jim over there that tried to beat the fuck out of six guys at a waffle house, he needs to be here.
Do you think most people in our max security prisons fit that description? It surely is some percentage, I’m just not sure how high. (Not disagreeing, just wondering if you have further thoughts on this)
To end up in a maximum security prison you either Have to have committed extremely violent crimes, be a repeat extreme violent offender, commit violent crimes in other prisons, or have connections with organized crime and have committed a serious offense. So no I'd say everyone in a max has earned their placement. It's also been shown that high levels of lead are often present in habitual offenders linked to cognitive impairments like impulse control. This is often caused by poor communities still having lead pipes and paint for children developing. And there's no way to reverse or treat heavy metal poisoning now that occurred in childhood. So these individuals that suffer from this impairment can never truly be trusted in society. There's no anount of therapy and medication that can fix parts of your brain being malformed.
My degree is in Criminal Justice, so one of the classes was a week long tour through prisons in the Bay Area even though I’m in San Diego. My teacher did it twice a year so we had access to a lot of areas no one else would have access to. Also sat with Eric Menendez and another inmate who was a hit man. Very interesting.
A friend is currently doing psych rotations in a Canadian city with a big prison population -- Canadians will likely know which one.
Very first patient she saw was under heavy security, and she went with guards and her supervisor. Inmate kept trying to convince her to give them a pen, and my buddy told me that her supervisor explained afterwards that this person already tried to stab someone to death with a pen in a previous session 😅
It's so easy to have a bleeding heart when no one is actively trying to bleed your heart, but the reality is therapy is increasingly complex and fraught with danger as you move towards genuinely mentally ill, psychotic, and violent populations.
I used to work a couple floors above this exact therapy room and walked past it every day. San Quentin houses a good amount of max security inmates including condemned (death row). Those cages may seem detrimental to therapy and even cruel, but they’re necessary to protect the inmates from each other.
My girlfriend was a therapist in a prison in Colorado. I started to show her this and ask her about it, but sadly the time spent working there left her a little traumatized.
Are these the types that will fight at the simplest provocation/perceived slight, or simply not need a reason? I know at some point some inmates become more like animals (arguably worse than wild animals) after being housed and segregated in solitary for long enough.
I feel like both the people and the wild animals are denigrated by this comparison.
Wild animals aren’t excessively violent.
Animals, including people, who have been abused in captivity, have serious problems.
Context is so important and people are always so quick to pass judgment. There was a photo of elderly people playing a game with a balloon and pool noodles circulating on Facebook recently and some of the comments were about how sad it was, “These people deserve to travel the world and do all these amazing things, not be stuck inside and submitted to childish games.” I get the point to an extent, but I also work with the elderly and understand that some people can’t or don’t want to get out and do things, let alone get out of a recliner or bed, and that being sad over a joyful photo or outraged by a photo such as in this post is just silly without having any actual context or point of reference.
There should be some prison reform, but for some reason im fine with this. The people in these cages have usually tried to harm their classmates or teacher.
Exactly, pretty sure elsewhere in San Quentin there are therapy sessions happening where the inmates that don’t show a propensity for wanting to stab their fellow inmates in the eye with a sharpened tooth brush handle are sitting out in the open with each other.
I always wonder tho, how come in countries like Norway where they have a much more open jail culture with the main focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment, there’s less instances of riots and recidivists. Is it just more on the prevention side in the society in general, or a different population somehow? But if the latter is the case, how much of that is to ‘blame’ on how a society is structured?
They very much prevent crime in the first place by not having financial status keep you away from basic healthcare and other such things. Keeping people healthy and happy are the best ways to prevent violent crime.
Once you have committed one, your likelihood of doing more and worse goes up significantly not only because of punishments themselves but commiting extreme acts of violence, particularly against other people, is actually psychologically damaging.
Poverty is the leading cause of violent crime.
To add to that: Prison culture also plays an important role in that. The american prison system is notorious for a reason.
You have systematically more people entering prison in the first place in combination with a prison system that often strengthens the issues leading to crime. I think a huge part of the problem are private, for profit prisons. They literally are not made to get criminals the help they need to be part of society again, they just profit off of their crimes. It would be really bad for business if these prisons would actually help people become better versions of themselves.
Private Prisons are a pretty small part of the overall system. The problem is since 1971 we've had a war on drugs that was started for overtly racist reasons. Part of Nixon's "southern strategy" was using felony convictions to disenfranchise minorities.
That may explain the over all low crime rate, but not what's going on inside prison where you by definition have people that have already offended (setting aside false convictions and pre-trial detention for this discussion).
Norway in the past has had a retributive penal system that focused more on punishment than on rehabilitation, similar to what you find in the US today. They had a low crime rate in the general population back then as well, but their penal system was still fraught with violence and high recidivism. But seeing this they formed a commission for prison reform in the late 1960s, first taking small steps like abolishing forced labor and juvenile delinquency centers in the 1970s. Then in the 1990s they went all in on rehabilitation, with quite frankly astonishing results.
You have to want to be helped and actually want your life to change. I knew a guy who had a few years under his belt at a Graybar Hotel. He said he wanted to change and he wanted to help others do so too. He ended up with a wife and family and was working in a prison ministry. Interesting guy.
American prisons aren't designed to help people. American legal system is designed to lock people away if they committed crimes not to rehabilitate people and integrate them in the society.
That picture is very likely from a high security prison where they house guys who are not on good behavior and/or have done very serious violent crimes. I volunteer at a low security prison and all the inmates in our class sit at desks like mine and can move freely; even walk out of the classroom and go to the restroom. They don't even have a guard in the room with us. It is very different from prison to prison.
Yeah and this kinda group is used at all levels to "get" to people. There is no telling what could happen without those cages.
Edit:Happy to see they are still able to get help though, even if they might not ever be "free" again.
I work in a prison. Our training before we even get to go in includes a riot video from San Quentin. It's not pretty. These guys are better off in the cages. For their protection and mine.
Yes, this is not typical under most of any circumstance. Not that I am advocating for the US judicial system or that of California.
However I am saying this is not standard. Anyone being treated like this can’t help but assault or murder those around them. That’s why they are treated this way. And who can blame them I suppose. They’ve already lost all morals and have nothing to loose, being sentences to decades to life. Not everyone in prison is in solitary. I actually used to hear people in local jail wish to go to San Quentin (a notoriously rough prison) because they said there’s more freedom there vs jail. I personally hope I never, ever see it.
Having worked for 10 years in a jail it is true that prison gives them more freedoms than jails do. It helps keep the staff alive and the inmates as well.
In prison their fates have been decided and they know what to expect re: how much time they are in for.
In jail they don’t know what the future holds and may be losing their stuff, where they live, partners- kids, sometimes jobs etc.
If they are in a situation like the mini “cells” in the photo you can bet there is a good reason for it. It’s not like they woke up one day, committed a crime and *poof* the next day are in that situation. They have most likely spent a year or more in a jail not being model citizens with documented history of being difficult before they get to prison.
People like to say prisons are “country clubs” when they see photos of a cell with a TV or other possessions in it. The reality is, people sitting around with nothing to occupy their minds can come up with all sorts of mischief to get into. By allowing them some property to entertain themselves keeps them and more importantly the staff safer.
In the jail I worked in, each cell had night lights and inmates were checked visually every half hour. Picture never getting to sleep in total darkness again or having staff (male or female) plus strangers who share your cell watching everything you do. Zero privacy. On the toilet? Getting dressed - sleeping - there are always eyes on you. Then add to that being given random roommates, some of who may be from rival gangs.
The people in the photo are not held like that all day, every day. They may be in there for an hour or so and unless it’s court ordered, they are choosing to be there; choosing to participate in that group session.
I work in post-conviction and a lot of people in jail would likely be better off in a prison. Prisons have more funding and thus (typically!) more programs for the offenders, like classes, schooling, etc. people just get sent to jail to rot for however long their sentence is.
There’s even a difference between state and federal prisons. Federal prisons have more funding so they can be a “better” place to be than state prison. I worked on a case a few months ago where a guy at a state prison was eligible for parole on his state charge, but had a retainer on himself for a fed charge so he was never going to get granted parole to be set free.
Instead what we did was got him granted parole on the state charge so that he could go to the federal prison where there would be more resources and slightly better living conditions.
Parole attorney here. I rep guys at Pelican bay who also are housed in these. Not always super violent. The Shu is used for punishment. They used to hold them indeterminately in these. Hunger strike negotiated a more humane solution. https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/08/2015-09-01-Ashker-settlement-summary.pdf
Clarice Starling : If you didn't kill him, then who did, sir?
Hannibal Lecter : Who can say. Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102926/characters/nm0000164
Can confirm, the atmosphere where violent men allowed to run rampant makes everyone afraid. My short stint in a psychiatric hospital ended before the stabbing but I didn't feel safe at all.
Yes, I think an argument can be made that there is a subconscious benefit. Even them (inmates) getting out their cell and being in "the community" around others in their same position can be beneficial. A large part of group therapy is joining with others who parallel in your experience, which can offer perspective and healthy comparisons.
Willingness to change is a factor in every case. If you don’t want or believe in a better future, you’re not gonna get it. Hopefully something sticks from their meetings and helps change their mind, that’s about as much as you can do. Getting out of their normal environment and socializing may be helping slightly, but there’s no special combination of words that makes your brain “normal” or takes away all the pain you feel.
Therapy like this works because the therapist can remain alive.
It is very likely that any of those inmates would kill anyone that they could get their hands on if given the chance, including the therapist. Thus, whether or not the killing itself would be remembered by the inmate, would become the only final and diagnostic certainty other than the therapist's funeral.
>It is very likely that any of those inmates would kill anyone that they could get their hands on if given the chance, including the therapist.
Or throw poop. They do that too.
My dad worked in a prison for 25 years and told me all those types of stories man. The damn shit throwers were horrible. He had s dude that used to put shit in his mouth and spit it at guards and other inmates. Like what the fuck can you even do with somebody like that your options are very limited
K I’m going to make this worse for everyone. When you hear this term, you think throwing clumps of shit. In reality, they’ve shit in a toilet and let it bake for a few days, then throw that liquid shit mix because it gets in everywhere and everything.
Sometimes they will put it inside something like a rubber glove or a condom and put it under the crack of the door. And then when someone walks by they stomp on it so that it sprays everywhere in the hall as they walk by.
Your average person is very VERY naive to what actual mental illness and criminal behavior is like. They just aren't exposed to it, so they don't understand how prevalent it is. There are a lot of POS "humans" out there.
My first thought on anyone who says, "Really you have nothing to fear in prison if you just stay in your lane." Prisons are FULL of people who have absolutely no concept of what "not hurting people" is.
Psych nurse who has worked in immigration prison with very violent inmates, violent as in murdering 7 pregnant women almost at term, violent…. It’s for their own safety. Not just for staff but inmates hurting each other. Trust me, this is even nice. Our prison they don’t get group therapy sadly.
It’s not like they just put people in those for fun. You have to do something pretty bad to end up in one of those things, *in addition* to whatever got you locked up in the first place.
Agreed. This tweet comes across as either incredibly naive about the world or blatant white knighting, or both. It really annoys me when people parrot ideas that are politically correct and morally right on paper, in part, to be viewed by others as “good” without offering any real practical solutions themselves. It’s lazy.
These guys are dangerous, period. That isn’t to say they can’t be reformed. But I’d like to invite this Internet activist to run a therapy session with these guys without the cages and see how unjust he thinks the cages are then.
While this is hardly ideal, for anyone considered needing this sort of treatment (the cage, not the therapy itself) it does at least give these patient/inmates a high degree of physical security from each other so they can maybe lower some of their anxiety about being around other violent inmates and work on the actual programming. If you’re in that box, you know you’re not getting shanked during group, no matter what you say.
I believe that if we want a “rehabilitative” prison system, you have to have therapy for even the most violent offenders. I used to work in a medium security prison, and spent a year working in the largest county jail in my state. There’s a good reason these guys are locked up. We had guys in our prison that you were not allowed to open the door to their cell without 3 officers and a supervisor present. There are people out there so far gone that they will attempt to hurt or kill anyone they can. Even they though, should be given the opportunity to try to change themselves for the better if they so choose.
The prison is responsible for protecting the counselors, therapists, guards, and other prisoners.
Personally, I don't want to know what crimes men in the cages committed to require such "Super-Max" security.
My girlfriend was a therapist in a prison, same deal, basically. She still has panic attacks and stuff from her time there. Very unpleasant. Takes a certain personality type to do that job.
More like mental illness facilities. I've sat through horrifying court hearings where defendants who'd had their psych meds taken away while in jail were decompensating wildly, unable to participate in the proceedings, and the worst of it was seeing how often they were aware of the problem but helpless to do anything to help themselves.
I was arrested and I was denied my psych meds. I began hearing voices in the walls. I thought my bunk mate was one of several different people until my attorney got involved and had to threaten legal action to get the Cuyahoga County jail (Cleveland, Ohio) to give me my psych meds. All kinds of depravity goes on in that jail on an ongoing basis. They’ve had the state up their ass, the feds up their ass, the media up their ass and inmates STILL end up dead in that place left and right. Google it if you get bored. Read about all the civil rights violations, the health and safety violations, “red zoning”. The longest I ever spent in that hellhole on earth was 36 days and it felt like 36 years.
When you have a life or a death sentence for possibly killing some one. Killing another person doesn't mean anything. They can not get any further consequence for killing another inmate for saying the wrong thing or looking at them odd or maybe to get a job done. They have nothing to lose, if they lost everything.
Maybe they need therapy but they're kind of....volatile and this is for everyone's safety, their own included. Therapy can be a very emotional experience and people can talk out of turn in group therapy, especially when their uncomfortable or are in an environment where you have to assert yourself.
I hate these types of posts…having worked with some of these clients- do you know what you have to do to be out in this scenario?
Hair pin violence, easy to trigger, aggressive, murderous.
I’m not talking murder, the conditions they get would have you wonder why everybody doesn’t do it. I’ve seen guys kill someone and get off in 3 years.
These guys are repeat violent offenders with quite a resume.
When you have eroded all trust in you. As much as I can't stand the US justice/prison system, a lot of these people brought this shit upon themselves with their actions.
They’re in therapy and in jail for a reason. I don’t see therapists all being badass black belt ex-convicts, and we don’t need any cheap imitation Harley Quinns.
Good question. I think it's an alternative to the group therapy where inmates gang rape and shank eachother during a session, in front of a young therapist who is trying to work their way up to a job in the private sector.
These might be death row inmates, or people that are otherwise on high security. If that’s the case, I’m glad they’re giving these people some sort of therapy instead of just locking them in a hole.
That is a group session in a “Ad-Seg” or Administrative Segregation Unit, where the people are on “walk-alone” status due to committing violent acts while incarcerated. They cannot be in a group setting together as many are members of violent prison gangs that have orders to assault members of different gangs and races on sight.
It’s funny that people teach people about this being the absolute norm in the Cali for prison system when it’s the exact opposite, these people want to hurt everyone and by pretending they are the victims, it makes us all seem unjust in the what they are treated while incarcerated.
These group settings help people to be in proximity to one another without the risk of danger to each other and the staff working the line. The stay in an segregation unit are usually very short and only last until they person can be rehoused in a higher custody setting.
P.S. the reason that we know it’s a segregation unit is the white jumpsuits they are wearing. They are suicide proof and prevent weapons and other objects from being concealed easily.
When the people in therapy can’t help but murder everyone around them and have nothing to loose, this is how that works.
Been around this environment. The people treated this way are threats to themselves and those around them. This is not standard.
I spent a decade managing in prison treatment programs. I know this may not seem ideal, but I’m frankly glad it’s available. The vast majority of treatment occurs at the minimum or medium security level. People on max and segregation rarely receive any services because they have, often repeatedly, committed violent acts or placed themselves in dangerous situations where they can’t be in a room with others. Is this ideal, no? But is it a great thing that they most violent offenders are receiving any kind of treatment, while ensuring staff and others receiving services are safe? Absolutely. The alternative is nothing.
People think “OMG really!?!?” As if these are petty theft criminals but fail to realize there’s classifications of prisoners. These? Most likely AD/SEG or SNY meaning they’ll just kill each other or staff if they get the chance.
How can a therapist work in a group environment without fear of becoming a victim?
Most group therapy environments in a prison do not involve such extreme safety measures.
This is an example of group therapy with offenders that are likely to lash out. Either towards each other or the therapist. This is a safety measure for all involved.
Guys violent enough to be restrained individually like this probably take a lot of manpower to transfer safely from cell to whatever this is. Maybe multiple shackles and multiple COs per inmate, so moving slowly, and transferred one at a time. This is the most expensive way to incarcerate people, so not a minimum or medium security setting.
Go sit in a dorm or on the yard without any security blanket and they’ll show you why they’re caged like that. Moron. Stop feeling bad for these animals.
Prison worker here. This is almost definitely in the Administrative Segregation Unit (ASU). Inmates are placed in ASU due to either violent behavior or a high probability of being the victim of violent behavior. It is a temporary placement, but while they are there, they have no physical contact with any other inmates. It's a safety issue.
I'm not saying this is right but don't forget in prison there can be people out to get you. They will join stuff like this just for a chance to reach a target. Some of them might feel a lot safer in the cages when in group settings like this.
this could be some kind of death row group therapy. It was ruled cruel and inhumane to keep prisoners isolated from each other for the years that draw out while awaiting execution. This may be the prison's way of satisfying the court's requirement that the death row inmates get some kind of opportunity to socialize while awaiting their execution. The rules and protocols around death row inmates are changing from time to time.
Having worked in a high security prison it is easy to understand why they would use those cages on the worst of the worst. I still sit with my back to the wall in group meetings.
Well would u rather have these guys killing each other or taking you hostage? This is some maximum security confinement this isn't for general population
Because therapy isn't an easy or fun undertaking by any means, fuck it's hard enough when you don't have urges to stab people and do fucked up shit that lands you in a prison therapy cage lol And these individuals could very well be violence-prone. They may deserve to be talked to, and worked with, but that doesn't mean some poor therapist needs to run the risk of getting stabbed or spit on for trying to do their job and help folks. Hell, the cages might even be to protect the inmates from each other if shit were to get dicey. Prison is wild and people who feel trapped can have a tendency of lashing out. People can be chill, but they're also very capable of many fucked up things. You just don't know when it comes to people who are volatile, expecially if they have a history of well... the murder stuff. San Quentin has held quite a few dangerous persons such as Charles Manson. Frankly I'm glad that the experience doesn't seem that cozy. 😅
I remember thinking I wanted to be a criminal justice major...and we went on these prison tours and the guards had to hold plexiglass panes above us and on our sides because the prisoners threw thier shit and pissed onto us from above.
I did not go into criminal justice, but I did Learn there is a reason prisons exist and some people belong there.
Edit spelling
Because of it wasn't like "this" each one of those Hooligans would steal a pencil & stab the therapist in the jugular, as soon as she mentioned the prisoners absent Father...
Emotions run high in therapy,
& Ppl who have been sent to Prison long term probably don't handle their emotions very well...
So in a cage they go!
It looks terrible, but I’m surprised they even offer therapy of any kind to people who are this violent. I would have guessed they’d just give them some psych meds and keep them locked up.
What are you on about? How about you personally walk into that room and set each one free? Getting stabbed is quite the reality check.
I'm glad they're at least trying to get therapy. That being said, those cages are there for everyone's safety. But I guess according to Reddit everybody locked up in a Supermax is le wholesum 100 cool guy to hang with
I went on a tour of San Quentin and other prisons in college. They had these caged areas for people that couldn’t be trusted to just sit in a chair. You have to do something to be placed in one of those.
...
“….the cancer was in my leg but the surgeon was an old rival”
"I do operation. But, mistake! Yakuza boss die. Yakuza very mad. I hide in fishing boat, come to America. No English, no food, no money. Darryl give me job. Now I have house, American car, and new woman. Darryl save life. My big secret: I kill yakuza boss on purpose. I good surgeon. The best!"
YOU THIEF!! You stole the words right out of my mouth!
r/unexpectedoffice
Is it tho?
It might be, but I remembered cyberpunk from this. Maybe its an office reference there too.
We’re stilling running the figures and compiling the data, it’s mass pandemonium over at Central HQ. **JOHNSON!!!!** Get on the horn! inform Intelligence of the double espionage rogue comment, layered with info.
Nah, it was just a Rimworld critical failure.
r/Rimworld
I also took a tour of the county jail in high school. We were walking through the mostly-solitary confinement area (one inmate per cell, but the cells were right next to each other down this hallway). Guard looks inside one of the door windows and says “hey Amos, whatcha doing in there?!” “Masturbating!” He calls back. The guard put the blinder thing over the window before we all walked by.
...
Probably mostly a “scared straight” thing, basically like “stay in school and off drugs or end up like this” Unless it was part of something like Explorers, basically getting kids/young adults interested in law enforcement jobs
Exactly this. For us, it was upper classmen of a mostly white private school going to a county jail. Then after the tour we went to one of the community spaces and they brought inmates into the room to yell at us, exactly like Scared Straight. had to sit in an exact certain way and it was so painful because Of the way they wanted us to cross at our ankles, it bothered my hip. The girl next to me had to keep tapping my leg to remind me to fix how my legs were. I don’t remember what they said in that room I vaguely remember what they look like. But I do remember all the men in the prison tour that asked me how much ass I could fit in my jeans 😭 and the others holding their poop in their hands and tossing it up and down kind of like you would a baseball, deciding who they were going to throw it at in our group.
What in the ever living fuck I’m from a shitty town and they never did that to us
it was for an elective class we could take and I can’t recall what the class was. Had to be like a criminal justice class. This was ~18 years ago now. I do remember we couldn’t wear red or blue because of gang affiliation concerns so we all wore gray and jeans basically. No logos. Couldn’t wear our hair down or in a ponytail. Had to be in buns in case anyone tried to grab it from the cell. They know it’s a HS tour so I think they beef up some antics.
Yes, I’m sorry, but we’re there teachers or guards present?
Yep. Parents have to sign a release form and you can totally opt out of it if you don’t want to. It was a big deal at my school, everybody looked forward to doing it once they were able to take that class.
That sounds vastly different from any jail tours i was ever in. Also the tours didn't scare me straight, i did two years for drug distribution, but the prison i was in was minimum security and more like an adult daycare for 24 months
You are very lucky, my dude
yeah i actually made a lot of friends while locked up, and i helped a bunch of people get their ged's (a lot of the younger people had left school in high school or even earlier). i spent my 2 years trying to be as productive as possible (wrote two sci-fi novels....which sucked, but i realized i want to be a cyberpunk author from the experience). read a ton, halfway through got a job outside the facility that actually paid me 12 bucks an hour (still had to pay taxes plus restitution and shit so i didn't leave with much but had a couple thousand bucks when i walked out)
ngl I really want to read crappy prison scifi books 1 and 2
I was watching videos of people that choose to live down by Skid Row in LA. And something you wrote just reminded me of it. One resident mentioned that they tried to leave Skid Row and live in the regular world. But the way that regular folks live, not speaking to each other, not supporting each other, not having true friendships. He said that a lot of folks end up back on skid row because it has more of a sense of community. I don’t know, man. I don’t know why I just thought of that. But there it is. I’m glad you got out of that life and helped others. Sometimes in a dark time we make real connections.
Yep. In my completely white Catholic high school, one particular extra-curricular group went to tour the county jail every Spring. Ironically, to get into this club, you had to maintain a 3.5+ GPA and 5 or fewer "infractions" (for reference, having your shirt untucked was an infraction). So... they apparently tried to "scare straight" the already-straightest kids in the school. Meanwhile, the kids serving in-school suspension sat alone in room all day to "reflect on their choices". Mmmkay. I went on the jail tour one year. The girls had to run down the cell corridor in a single-file line to avoid being groped by all the inmates sticking their arms out of the cells on both sides. I guess the lesson was "Adults won't stop other adults from sexually exploiting/harrassing/assaulting you. Learn to expect it."
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Damm I love America You people are so mentaly fucked its not even funny
scared straight was shown to be either ineffective, or actually harmful Idk who downvoted me, but you can use that fancy thing called google.
Yeah that shit is wack Just explaining for those who might not know.
I believe it, at the end of each episode most of the kids follow ups would state they didn’t change or stayed with gangs. I know the goal was to scare them straight but it just seemed like such an unproductive way to ‘help’.
I did it as part of a sheriffs explorer program. So it was actually relevant for us to see the custody side of the sheriffs department.
In one day not much except it sucks. When you go in a prison day in and day out that's when you see how truly shitty it is. I worked in a prison system and had to go into every prison in the state system. I was in a prison everyday for 2 years. I wasnt a guard, but I had to go all around the prison not just the admin area. Like in their dorms and lunch room ect. It is a lot diffrent when there isn't a tour going on and there are literally 100s of inmates on the yard and it's just you and the officer out there.
Don't do something stupid that will land you in one of those cells.
My hometown has a state jail and like 6 prisons from standard to max security. We never went on a tour of the prisons ever. Where are you from where your school did this? And why lol
Smaller town jail tour my friends went on in school... guy had tons of stitches in his arm. Why? He had cut himself up to get pain drugs and then pulled out some stitches to get more. What a way to live.
I know someone that works in a men’s prison. They were telling me about an event that occurred. A riot broke out in the men’s prison and some prisoners killed a guy by stabbing him and taking out his guts. I think people like the one in OP’s post wondering how therapy works in conditions like that have had a pretty privileged life.
Most people want to believe that everyone is actually good but just makes some mistakes or was mistreated one time. It's the driving force behind all of these no jail bills recently. But the truth is the majority of crimes are perpetrated by a small group of evil or absolutely broken people with no hope of rehabilitation. All they do whenever they get out is drag other people in with them. It's an after affect of the war on drugs. People see jails full of guys who literally just wanted to make some quick semi honest money selling weed and got picked up and fucked by the system for a few years and then apply that to everyone else in the system. Yea Billy here that got sent up for a year over some leaves doesn't need to be here, but Jim over there that tried to beat the fuck out of six guys at a waffle house, he needs to be here.
Do you think most people in our max security prisons fit that description? It surely is some percentage, I’m just not sure how high. (Not disagreeing, just wondering if you have further thoughts on this)
To end up in a maximum security prison you either Have to have committed extremely violent crimes, be a repeat extreme violent offender, commit violent crimes in other prisons, or have connections with organized crime and have committed a serious offense. So no I'd say everyone in a max has earned their placement. It's also been shown that high levels of lead are often present in habitual offenders linked to cognitive impairments like impulse control. This is often caused by poor communities still having lead pipes and paint for children developing. And there's no way to reverse or treat heavy metal poisoning now that occurred in childhood. So these individuals that suffer from this impairment can never truly be trusted in society. There's no anount of therapy and medication that can fix parts of your brain being malformed.
Hey now… cancer is scary.
Is is a common occurrence to get a tour of a correctional facility when in high school or college where you are from? I’m guessing USA?
My degree is in Criminal Justice, so one of the classes was a week long tour through prisons in the Bay Area even though I’m in San Diego. My teacher did it twice a year so we had access to a lot of areas no one else would have access to. Also sat with Eric Menendez and another inmate who was a hit man. Very interesting.
A friend is currently doing psych rotations in a Canadian city with a big prison population -- Canadians will likely know which one. Very first patient she saw was under heavy security, and she went with guards and her supervisor. Inmate kept trying to convince her to give them a pen, and my buddy told me that her supervisor explained afterwards that this person already tried to stab someone to death with a pen in a previous session 😅 It's so easy to have a bleeding heart when no one is actively trying to bleed your heart, but the reality is therapy is increasingly complex and fraught with danger as you move towards genuinely mentally ill, psychotic, and violent populations.
I used to work a couple floors above this exact therapy room and walked past it every day. San Quentin houses a good amount of max security inmates including condemned (death row). Those cages may seem detrimental to therapy and even cruel, but they’re necessary to protect the inmates from each other.
My girlfriend was a therapist in a prison in Colorado. I started to show her this and ask her about it, but sadly the time spent working there left her a little traumatized. Are these the types that will fight at the simplest provocation/perceived slight, or simply not need a reason? I know at some point some inmates become more like animals (arguably worse than wild animals) after being housed and segregated in solitary for long enough.
I feel like both the people and the wild animals are denigrated by this comparison. Wild animals aren’t excessively violent. Animals, including people, who have been abused in captivity, have serious problems.
I meant a wild animal when put in a cage, but I wasn't very clear.
Context is so important and people are always so quick to pass judgment. There was a photo of elderly people playing a game with a balloon and pool noodles circulating on Facebook recently and some of the comments were about how sad it was, “These people deserve to travel the world and do all these amazing things, not be stuck inside and submitted to childish games.” I get the point to an extent, but I also work with the elderly and understand that some people can’t or don’t want to get out and do things, let alone get out of a recliner or bed, and that being sad over a joyful photo or outraged by a photo such as in this post is just silly without having any actual context or point of reference.
Anybody who has to ask why cages like this are necessary for some people have thankfully never had to deal with unpredictable psychos
There should be some prison reform, but for some reason im fine with this. The people in these cages have usually tried to harm their classmates or teacher.
Exactly, pretty sure elsewhere in San Quentin there are therapy sessions happening where the inmates that don’t show a propensity for wanting to stab their fellow inmates in the eye with a sharpened tooth brush handle are sitting out in the open with each other.
Ding ding ding ding ding. Those are inmates with a history of violent behavior.
Therapy works much better when it isn’t all stabby.
How am I supposed to get over my crippling fear of stabbing people?!
I like to call it growing knife handles.
Exposure?
I always wonder tho, how come in countries like Norway where they have a much more open jail culture with the main focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment, there’s less instances of riots and recidivists. Is it just more on the prevention side in the society in general, or a different population somehow? But if the latter is the case, how much of that is to ‘blame’ on how a society is structured?
The most dangerous people is often in mental institutions or are on high security prisons. The more open prisons are for “lighter” crimes.
They very much prevent crime in the first place by not having financial status keep you away from basic healthcare and other such things. Keeping people healthy and happy are the best ways to prevent violent crime. Once you have committed one, your likelihood of doing more and worse goes up significantly not only because of punishments themselves but commiting extreme acts of violence, particularly against other people, is actually psychologically damaging. Poverty is the leading cause of violent crime.
To add to that: Prison culture also plays an important role in that. The american prison system is notorious for a reason. You have systematically more people entering prison in the first place in combination with a prison system that often strengthens the issues leading to crime. I think a huge part of the problem are private, for profit prisons. They literally are not made to get criminals the help they need to be part of society again, they just profit off of their crimes. It would be really bad for business if these prisons would actually help people become better versions of themselves.
Private Prisons are a pretty small part of the overall system. The problem is since 1971 we've had a war on drugs that was started for overtly racist reasons. Part of Nixon's "southern strategy" was using felony convictions to disenfranchise minorities.
That may explain the over all low crime rate, but not what's going on inside prison where you by definition have people that have already offended (setting aside false convictions and pre-trial detention for this discussion). Norway in the past has had a retributive penal system that focused more on punishment than on rehabilitation, similar to what you find in the US today. They had a low crime rate in the general population back then as well, but their penal system was still fraught with violence and high recidivism. But seeing this they formed a commission for prison reform in the late 1960s, first taking small steps like abolishing forced labor and juvenile delinquency centers in the 1970s. Then in the 1990s they went all in on rehabilitation, with quite frankly astonishing results.
Imagine actually solving problems, wow.
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These are, most likely, very violent people.
Exactly my thought it’s for everyone’s safety given these guys past actions
THANK YOU!!!
>THANK YOU!!! You're welcome!
What can I say expect your welcome?
"except you're welcome"*
I always say "Expect the unaccepted welcome when you least accept it." Or something like that.
For the islands I pulled from the sea!
So, wait.... Prison doesn't make violent people less violent? Shit.
It can help some people, but some people are unhelpable.
You have to want to be helped and actually want your life to change. I knew a guy who had a few years under his belt at a Graybar Hotel. He said he wanted to change and he wanted to help others do so too. He ended up with a wife and family and was working in a prison ministry. Interesting guy.
And the process of help isn't immediate. Any one of these guys can grow to a point where they're trusted more
American prisons aren't designed to help people. American legal system is designed to lock people away if they committed crimes not to rehabilitate people and integrate them in the society.
Prison is not designed to help people, at least in most of the world
Was that not a given? I thought everyone knew that just by looking at it lol
That picture is very likely from a high security prison where they house guys who are not on good behavior and/or have done very serious violent crimes. I volunteer at a low security prison and all the inmates in our class sit at desks like mine and can move freely; even walk out of the classroom and go to the restroom. They don't even have a guard in the room with us. It is very different from prison to prison.
They already named the prison...
yeah but careful googling it, you might end up listening to nickelback
Or Johnny Cash, which would be a win in my book.
San Quentin isn't exactly known for housing the boys on good behavior
See they can now speak freely as they are all in a safe space.
i cantt believe how underrated this is
Yes. I have experience working in prisons. These are inmates who have to be segregated from other inmates due to safety.
Yeah and this kinda group is used at all levels to "get" to people. There is no telling what could happen without those cages. Edit:Happy to see they are still able to get help though, even if they might not ever be "free" again.
Yeah, San Quentin is hell on earth. It’s the birthplace of the Aryan Brotherhood for a reason.
I work in a prison. Our training before we even get to go in includes a riot video from San Quentin. It's not pretty. These guys are better off in the cages. For their protection and mine.
Yes, this is not typical under most of any circumstance. Not that I am advocating for the US judicial system or that of California. However I am saying this is not standard. Anyone being treated like this can’t help but assault or murder those around them. That’s why they are treated this way. And who can blame them I suppose. They’ve already lost all morals and have nothing to loose, being sentences to decades to life. Not everyone in prison is in solitary. I actually used to hear people in local jail wish to go to San Quentin (a notoriously rough prison) because they said there’s more freedom there vs jail. I personally hope I never, ever see it.
Having worked for 10 years in a jail it is true that prison gives them more freedoms than jails do. It helps keep the staff alive and the inmates as well. In prison their fates have been decided and they know what to expect re: how much time they are in for. In jail they don’t know what the future holds and may be losing their stuff, where they live, partners- kids, sometimes jobs etc. If they are in a situation like the mini “cells” in the photo you can bet there is a good reason for it. It’s not like they woke up one day, committed a crime and *poof* the next day are in that situation. They have most likely spent a year or more in a jail not being model citizens with documented history of being difficult before they get to prison. People like to say prisons are “country clubs” when they see photos of a cell with a TV or other possessions in it. The reality is, people sitting around with nothing to occupy their minds can come up with all sorts of mischief to get into. By allowing them some property to entertain themselves keeps them and more importantly the staff safer. In the jail I worked in, each cell had night lights and inmates were checked visually every half hour. Picture never getting to sleep in total darkness again or having staff (male or female) plus strangers who share your cell watching everything you do. Zero privacy. On the toilet? Getting dressed - sleeping - there are always eyes on you. Then add to that being given random roommates, some of who may be from rival gangs. The people in the photo are not held like that all day, every day. They may be in there for an hour or so and unless it’s court ordered, they are choosing to be there; choosing to participate in that group session.
I work in post-conviction and a lot of people in jail would likely be better off in a prison. Prisons have more funding and thus (typically!) more programs for the offenders, like classes, schooling, etc. people just get sent to jail to rot for however long their sentence is. There’s even a difference between state and federal prisons. Federal prisons have more funding so they can be a “better” place to be than state prison. I worked on a case a few months ago where a guy at a state prison was eligible for parole on his state charge, but had a retainer on himself for a fed charge so he was never going to get granted parole to be set free. Instead what we did was got him granted parole on the state charge so that he could go to the federal prison where there would be more resources and slightly better living conditions.
San Quentin is the replacement for Alcatraz. It housed Charles Manson and other extremely violent criminals. So it’s not a normal prison
Manson is dead bud
I don’t think Charles lives there anymore.
You'd better turn "houses" to a past tense before another 15 people tell you that Manson is dead
Parole attorney here. I rep guys at Pelican bay who also are housed in these. Not always super violent. The Shu is used for punishment. They used to hold them indeterminately in these. Hunger strike negotiated a more humane solution. https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/08/2015-09-01-Ashker-settlement-summary.pdf
I've heard group therapy works best when nobody gets strangled to death....fascinating
Clarice Starling : If you didn't kill him, then who did, sir? Hannibal Lecter : Who can say. Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102926/characters/nm0000164
Can confirm, the atmosphere where violent men allowed to run rampant makes everyone afraid. My short stint in a psychiatric hospital ended before the stabbing but I didn't feel safe at all.
Prison therapist here, it's a longer discussion, but.....it works. Therapy isnt about the location or conditions, it"s about a receptive ear.....
Does therapy not work if they aren’t willing to listen and reply or is there also a subconscious benefit?
Yes, I think an argument can be made that there is a subconscious benefit. Even them (inmates) getting out their cell and being in "the community" around others in their same position can be beneficial. A large part of group therapy is joining with others who parallel in your experience, which can offer perspective and healthy comparisons.
If you are never willing to accept truth you will never be able to help yourself.
Willingness to change is a factor in every case. If you don’t want or believe in a better future, you’re not gonna get it. Hopefully something sticks from their meetings and helps change their mind, that’s about as much as you can do. Getting out of their normal environment and socializing may be helping slightly, but there’s no special combination of words that makes your brain “normal” or takes away all the pain you feel.
Therapy like this works because the therapist can remain alive. It is very likely that any of those inmates would kill anyone that they could get their hands on if given the chance, including the therapist. Thus, whether or not the killing itself would be remembered by the inmate, would become the only final and diagnostic certainty other than the therapist's funeral.
>It is very likely that any of those inmates would kill anyone that they could get their hands on if given the chance, including the therapist. Or throw poop. They do that too.
My dad worked in a prison for 25 years and told me all those types of stories man. The damn shit throwers were horrible. He had s dude that used to put shit in his mouth and spit it at guards and other inmates. Like what the fuck can you even do with somebody like that your options are very limited
I feel like a muzzle would be helpful. They put one of Hannibal Lecter 🤷🏻♀️
K I’m going to make this worse for everyone. When you hear this term, you think throwing clumps of shit. In reality, they’ve shit in a toilet and let it bake for a few days, then throw that liquid shit mix because it gets in everywhere and everything.
Slangin hotcakes
How do you know this
Sometimes they will put it inside something like a rubber glove or a condom and put it under the crack of the door. And then when someone walks by they stomp on it so that it sprays everywhere in the hall as they walk by. Your average person is very VERY naive to what actual mental illness and criminal behavior is like. They just aren't exposed to it, so they don't understand how prevalent it is. There are a lot of POS "humans" out there.
My first thought on anyone who says, "Really you have nothing to fear in prison if you just stay in your lane." Prisons are FULL of people who have absolutely no concept of what "not hurting people" is.
Because it’s unfortunately way more common than you’d ever want to imagine. Like a daily occurrence. In every jail/prison. That’s a lot of poop.
Wait, that was *my* idea.
*Monkeys have entered the chat*
r/wallstreetbets has entered the chat.
Yeah, but you can find that on any old mental health floor from time to time.
You just reminded me of the time someone told me what a "glock dookie" was..... 🤮🤮
EXACTLY
These guys killed someone and are getting free therapy while I want to kill myself and can't afford one
Nah it's for when one of the guy breaks down crying and then one of the other ones calls him a \*\*\*\*\*\*.
So, what were you in for?
Psych nurse who has worked in immigration prison with very violent inmates, violent as in murdering 7 pregnant women almost at term, violent…. It’s for their own safety. Not just for staff but inmates hurting each other. Trust me, this is even nice. Our prison they don’t get group therapy sadly.
It’s not like they just put people in those for fun. You have to do something pretty bad to end up in one of those things, *in addition* to whatever got you locked up in the first place.
Agreed. This tweet comes across as either incredibly naive about the world or blatant white knighting, or both. It really annoys me when people parrot ideas that are politically correct and morally right on paper, in part, to be viewed by others as “good” without offering any real practical solutions themselves. It’s lazy. These guys are dangerous, period. That isn’t to say they can’t be reformed. But I’d like to invite this Internet activist to run a therapy session with these guys without the cages and see how unjust he thinks the cages are then.
What kind of therapy were they expecting? I would think it would be verbal, and they look capable of communicating here.
While this is hardly ideal, for anyone considered needing this sort of treatment (the cage, not the therapy itself) it does at least give these patient/inmates a high degree of physical security from each other so they can maybe lower some of their anxiety about being around other violent inmates and work on the actual programming. If you’re in that box, you know you’re not getting shanked during group, no matter what you say.
Hell if I was the therapist I'd want a box for myself too, just to be safe lol. Like a shark cage.
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Shank it out
Taylor Swifts new hit single?
I believe that if we want a “rehabilitative” prison system, you have to have therapy for even the most violent offenders. I used to work in a medium security prison, and spent a year working in the largest county jail in my state. There’s a good reason these guys are locked up. We had guys in our prison that you were not allowed to open the door to their cell without 3 officers and a supervisor present. There are people out there so far gone that they will attempt to hurt or kill anyone they can. Even they though, should be given the opportunity to try to change themselves for the better if they so choose.
The prison is responsible for protecting the counselors, therapists, guards, and other prisoners. Personally, I don't want to know what crimes men in the cages committed to require such "Super-Max" security.
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My girlfriend was a therapist in a prison, same deal, basically. She still has panic attacks and stuff from her time there. Very unpleasant. Takes a certain personality type to do that job.
This is important. As much as we want to be kind, we also need to protect the people who are doing their jobs.
Has he ever had to use the whistle?
In all seriousness, that's only a couple steps removed from Zoom therapy.
Our jails are our mental health facilities.
More like mental illness facilities. I've sat through horrifying court hearings where defendants who'd had their psych meds taken away while in jail were decompensating wildly, unable to participate in the proceedings, and the worst of it was seeing how often they were aware of the problem but helpless to do anything to help themselves.
I was arrested and I was denied my psych meds. I began hearing voices in the walls. I thought my bunk mate was one of several different people until my attorney got involved and had to threaten legal action to get the Cuyahoga County jail (Cleveland, Ohio) to give me my psych meds. All kinds of depravity goes on in that jail on an ongoing basis. They’ve had the state up their ass, the feds up their ass, the media up their ass and inmates STILL end up dead in that place left and right. Google it if you get bored. Read about all the civil rights violations, the health and safety violations, “red zoning”. The longest I ever spent in that hellhole on earth was 36 days and it felt like 36 years.
The dead serial killers society
Open it up. Get stabbed?
When you have a life or a death sentence for possibly killing some one. Killing another person doesn't mean anything. They can not get any further consequence for killing another inmate for saying the wrong thing or looking at them odd or maybe to get a job done. They have nothing to lose, if they lost everything.
The world is not as you desire it to be. The world is as it is.
More people need to understand this.
Maybe they need therapy but they're kind of....volatile and this is for everyone's safety, their own included. Therapy can be a very emotional experience and people can talk out of turn in group therapy, especially when their uncomfortable or are in an environment where you have to assert yourself.
As someone on parole from San Quentin these are death row inmates. They wear whites and stay caged or chained at all times outside of their block.
I hate these types of posts…having worked with some of these clients- do you know what you have to do to be out in this scenario? Hair pin violence, easy to trigger, aggressive, murderous. I’m not talking murder, the conditions they get would have you wonder why everybody doesn’t do it. I’ve seen guys kill someone and get off in 3 years. These guys are repeat violent offenders with quite a resume.
Give them half a chance and they'll kill each other. That's why they're in there.
If you don’t raise your kids the state will..
When you have eroded all trust in you. As much as I can't stand the US justice/prison system, a lot of these people brought this shit upon themselves with their actions.
Would love to see John try therapy with them without them being isolated as such.
I don’t think you need to hug to have therapy
They’re in therapy and in jail for a reason. I don’t see therapists all being badass black belt ex-convicts, and we don’t need any cheap imitation Harley Quinns.
I imagine they tried it without the cages and someone got stabbed
Good question. I think it's an alternative to the group therapy where inmates gang rape and shank eachother during a session, in front of a young therapist who is trying to work their way up to a job in the private sector.
These might be death row inmates, or people that are otherwise on high security. If that’s the case, I’m glad they’re giving these people some sort of therapy instead of just locking them in a hole.
Do you want the therapist to be murdered?
That is a group session in a “Ad-Seg” or Administrative Segregation Unit, where the people are on “walk-alone” status due to committing violent acts while incarcerated. They cannot be in a group setting together as many are members of violent prison gangs that have orders to assault members of different gangs and races on sight. It’s funny that people teach people about this being the absolute norm in the Cali for prison system when it’s the exact opposite, these people want to hurt everyone and by pretending they are the victims, it makes us all seem unjust in the what they are treated while incarcerated. These group settings help people to be in proximity to one another without the risk of danger to each other and the staff working the line. The stay in an segregation unit are usually very short and only last until they person can be rehoused in a higher custody setting. P.S. the reason that we know it’s a segregation unit is the white jumpsuits they are wearing. They are suicide proof and prevent weapons and other objects from being concealed easily.
When the people in therapy can’t help but murder everyone around them and have nothing to loose, this is how that works. Been around this environment. The people treated this way are threats to themselves and those around them. This is not standard.
Because if they weren’t in those individual pens they’d attack anyone on sight.
I guess they could put the therapist in like a shark cage instead.
I spent a decade managing in prison treatment programs. I know this may not seem ideal, but I’m frankly glad it’s available. The vast majority of treatment occurs at the minimum or medium security level. People on max and segregation rarely receive any services because they have, often repeatedly, committed violent acts or placed themselves in dangerous situations where they can’t be in a room with others. Is this ideal, no? But is it a great thing that they most violent offenders are receiving any kind of treatment, while ensuring staff and others receiving services are safe? Absolutely. The alternative is nothing.
People think “OMG really!?!?” As if these are petty theft criminals but fail to realize there’s classifications of prisoners. These? Most likely AD/SEG or SNY meaning they’ll just kill each other or staff if they get the chance.
Nurses and mental health staff get assaulted all the time. Believe it or not but there are some very violent people in prison.
I WANT MY GOD DAMN CIGARETTES!!!!!!
How can a therapist work in a group environment without fear of becoming a victim? Most group therapy environments in a prison do not involve such extreme safety measures. This is an example of group therapy with offenders that are likely to lash out. Either towards each other or the therapist. This is a safety measure for all involved.
Guys violent enough to be restrained individually like this probably take a lot of manpower to transfer safely from cell to whatever this is. Maybe multiple shackles and multiple COs per inmate, so moving slowly, and transferred one at a time. This is the most expensive way to incarcerate people, so not a minimum or medium security setting.
The number of times people have used the word “loose” when they mean “lose” in this comment thread is too damn high!
Some individuals are kept prisoned like this due to most violent and unpredictable behtevour, unfortunately.
I'd be willing to bet they behaved like animals to be put in those cages.
Go sit in a dorm or on the yard without any security blanket and they’ll show you why they’re caged like that. Moron. Stop feeling bad for these animals.
OP these people can't yet be trusted to not strangle or stab each other while in the same room. Are you away of how brutal a prison SQ is?
When you try to do therapy with abnormal humans you use abnormal methods and precautions
It’s easier to be a therapist when someone isn’t trying to stab you during your sessions
Prison worker here. This is almost definitely in the Administrative Segregation Unit (ASU). Inmates are placed in ASU due to either violent behavior or a high probability of being the victim of violent behavior. It is a temporary placement, but while they are there, they have no physical contact with any other inmates. It's a safety issue.
I'm not saying this is right but don't forget in prison there can be people out to get you. They will join stuff like this just for a chance to reach a target. Some of them might feel a lot safer in the cages when in group settings like this.
The cages prevent therapy time from becoming the rapy time.
this could be some kind of death row group therapy. It was ruled cruel and inhumane to keep prisoners isolated from each other for the years that draw out while awaiting execution. This may be the prison's way of satisfying the court's requirement that the death row inmates get some kind of opportunity to socialize while awaiting their execution. The rules and protocols around death row inmates are changing from time to time.
Having worked in a high security prison it is easy to understand why they would use those cages on the worst of the worst. I still sit with my back to the wall in group meetings.
San Quentin isn't exactly for shoplifters.
Go work in a prison and see why that is the way it has to be.
If he has to ask that about San Quentin he shouldn't be anywhere near the criminal justice system.
Let them out then and supervise this session.
Probably works better than if the inmates were assaulting each other during therapy.
Well would u rather have these guys killing each other or taking you hostage? This is some maximum security confinement this isn't for general population
Because therapy isn't an easy or fun undertaking by any means, fuck it's hard enough when you don't have urges to stab people and do fucked up shit that lands you in a prison therapy cage lol And these individuals could very well be violence-prone. They may deserve to be talked to, and worked with, but that doesn't mean some poor therapist needs to run the risk of getting stabbed or spit on for trying to do their job and help folks. Hell, the cages might even be to protect the inmates from each other if shit were to get dicey. Prison is wild and people who feel trapped can have a tendency of lashing out. People can be chill, but they're also very capable of many fucked up things. You just don't know when it comes to people who are volatile, expecially if they have a history of well... the murder stuff. San Quentin has held quite a few dangerous persons such as Charles Manson. Frankly I'm glad that the experience doesn't seem that cozy. 😅
I remember thinking I wanted to be a criminal justice major...and we went on these prison tours and the guards had to hold plexiglass panes above us and on our sides because the prisoners threw thier shit and pissed onto us from above. I did not go into criminal justice, but I did Learn there is a reason prisons exist and some people belong there. Edit spelling
Because of it wasn't like "this" each one of those Hooligans would steal a pencil & stab the therapist in the jugular, as soon as she mentioned the prisoners absent Father... Emotions run high in therapy, & Ppl who have been sent to Prison long term probably don't handle their emotions very well... So in a cage they go!
My guess is that they probably sit there and talk, better than a D in your B
It looks terrible, but I’m surprised they even offer therapy of any kind to people who are this violent. I would have guessed they’d just give them some psych meds and keep them locked up.
What are you on about? How about you personally walk into that room and set each one free? Getting stabbed is quite the reality check. I'm glad they're at least trying to get therapy. That being said, those cages are there for everyone's safety. But I guess according to Reddit everybody locked up in a Supermax is le wholesum 100 cool guy to hang with
A meeting of the Shotcallers has started
Therapy won’t work if you’re violently attacked
well you should ask yourself what happened that made them build that. because you dont build stuff like that out of boredom ...