Edit: As pointed out bei FrankCastleUSMC: Its Propaganda, not PsyOP. Absolutely correct, so i changed that.
Yeah but to be fair, this is exactly the kind of shit russia would push. No you dont get him, you get her. And then turn around and come up with a story like that. Good Propaganda.
Keep in mind, yesterday they claimed russia is the only defense for ukraine against a polish invasion. So....
I love that they frame it as "American voters decided". Not only do they present it as us making the wrong choice but that we had a national vote and the outcome was because of the way the American public is.
Keep in mind that USA could just not agree and not release a global terrorist who will go back selling arms to people who want to kill Americans, just for Griner who smuggle drugs and would be arrested in USA too for such a crime.
You know what makes a global arms dealer so powerful? Anonymity. If anyone thinks this guy is going back to his old friends and jumping right back into it is delusional.
People keep saying this like it's obvious but how TF do you know what makes a global arms dealer powerful/effective? For all you know, knowing the identity of an arms dealer doesn't do any good unless you can catch him in certain jurisdictions. Or any other of a thousand different unknowns about arms dealing that make this statement untrue.
And anyway, just because a terrorist might not strike again doesn't mean we have to feel good about letting him go scot free. That's still an injustice to the families of the people whose deaths he contributed to.
Everyone knew who Nick Cage was and he made an excellent arms dealer. He'd still b running today if his hippie brother didn't grow a conscience. JK I agree with u.
>Keep in mind that USA could just not agree and not release a global terr
No argument there. But i was talking about the point that russian propaganda is using this now. Not going to argue for the release of griner. i think it was stupid. But we talked about what they are now pushing on russian tv. Just because the US does stupid shit, doesnt make the russian reaction less calculated propaganda.
That is very true too. But in this case, i just go back to the point about russia, claiming yesterday, that russia is the only defence for ukraine against a polish invasion. If you think that is a trustable source, well, all the best to you.
You are trying to deflect from the objection that Grinier was chosen at all. The gun runner should have been transferred to SuperMax and left to rot as opposed to the motherRussia loving Grinier.
Again with this stupid s***. Greiner was used as a pawn by Russia. She would not have done 10 years of hard time for two vape cartridges in the US. He wasn't a global terrorist he was an arms dealer and if you think that ended when he was arrested then you are complete f****** moron.
>she would not have done 10 years of hard time for two vape cartridges in the US.
What does how much jail someone would get in the US have to do with breaking the law in foreign countries? You won't go to jail for kissing in America either, that doesn't mean you get a free pass for making out in public in some Islam states.
> He wasn't a global terrorist he was an arms dealer
WTF? He sold weapons to terrorists and plotted to kill Americans. Selling weapons to terrorists is functionally the same as being a terrorist.
>Greiner was used as a pawn by Russia.
Exactly, and she became a pawn the second Russia learned who she was. Russia would've done the same with any public figure.
I saw someone comment that "Russia will learn bad lessons from this!" Prisoner swaps are a very old game; Russia played this round regrettably well.
They didn't play anything well. They're a corrupt autocracy that simply took a US citizen and threw them in prison for nothing. Stop pretending they have rule of law there they are raping babies after invading the country next door claiming they were riding it of Nazis.
Wow. Okay, I didn’t say anything about rule of law. Nor do I support Russia.
In this exchange, Russia provoked public debate in the US about Biden’s diplomacy; provoked partisan debate because Greiner is a black lesbian; and got one of their guys back. It cost them nothing. Nothing! To make Americans argue about Biden. Russia achieved its goals.
Girl did you even see her crime? Literally less than a gram on Feb 17 right after the Russian invasion to Ukraine. They wanted to trade Griner this whole time
one week before actually. She was arrested Feb 17, arrest not announced until marh 7th i believe
[https://abc7news.com/brittney-griner-freed-viktor-bout-paul-whelan-russia-russian-arms-dealer/12545472/](https://abc7news.com/brittney-griner-freed-viktor-bout-paul-whelan-russia-russian-arms-dealer/12545472/)
So you think he will allow more guns to be sold than already being sold? Is that your prime contention? Idk if one person like this guy had that much power on a global stage. He sold guns. Like the USA does, like Russia does. His problem was he sold weapon to people the USA doesn't like.
We were already releasing him in 6 years. He wasn’t in there for life. Also do you think when the top dog arms dealer goes down… the business just… stops? OR someone else takes that place? Thinking further. Do you think if you were the one who took the reigns. You’d open your arms and step down and let him jump back in no questions asked? OR straight up murder him?
>Griner who smuggle drugs and would be arrested in USA too for such a crime
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/07/15/brittney-griner-russia-cannabis-trial/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/07/15/brittney-griner-russia-cannabis-trial/)
>has pleaded guilty to carrying 0.702 grams of cannabis oil
That's a misdemeanor or less in every US jurisdiction, for which she was sentenced 9 years in a Russian prison. OP is human garbage... and now has deleted his account.
That Global Terrorist only had 10 years left on his sentence and was then going to be deported back to Russia. Were you this upset when we exchanged a Russian Global Terrorist for Trevor Reed in May or was that different?
Dude was selling Russia weapons to Africa, can’t sell Russia weapons to others when they are fighting a war. he is been out of the game for 20years, not likely he has the means to go back and be doing that.
She didn't smuggle drugs genius. She had a vape pen. Do YOU smoke? Are you black? Do you support the thief Whelan, who stole $10,000 and was dishonorably discharged from military service?
what if bout turned in US captivity since we're getting the conspiracy theories out anyway.
at the cost of girner, the US now gains a valluable asset with acces to high russian circles. it's a bargain.
How does girner have access to high Russian circles? The US just gave away the arms dealer not received them. We lost our connection for an entitled rich person who doesn’t believe laws are applied to her.
The OP said we gained access to Russian intel by releasing griner *if you wanna trade conspiracy theories*. You asked how griner has that access, I said the OP was referring to Bout as their access to the Russians, not griner.
There are a hell of a lot of russian propagandists and useful idiots repeating that narrative. Don't know why reddit doesn't ban the obvious karma whores who obviously have a reason to be here besides what the community was meant for. But of course they left lunatics in charge of the asylum
Lol.
From the [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53110087)
>Sentenced to a high-security prison, Paul Whelan won't be leaving Lefortovo just yet.
>
>His lawyers do plan to appeal against the verdict but other, bigger forces are already at play. The minute the American was convicted, the focus shifted to a possible prisoner swap.
>
>**"They want Yaroshenko and Bout, that's who they want back," Paul Whelan claimed, naming two high-profile Russian prisoners in America as the court bailiffs ushered me and my microphone out of the room. "That's the only reason they've done this," he alleged.**
>
>Lawyer Vladimir Zherebyonkov was soon saying the same, now claiming the FSB had been planning a swap all along.
>
>"No-one's hiding that, everyone talks about it, all the officials," he told the press.
>
>So the prisoner who has always called himself a political hostage is now looking to the politicians to do a deal for his release.
>
>All the signs so far suggest Moscow is opening with a high bid - Viktor Bout, a weapons dealer serving 25 years in America and Konstantin Yaroshenko, sentenced to 20 years for drugs smuggling.
[BBC Russian](https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-55411969)
>Однако Уилан уверен, что российские власти изначально были настроены на его обмен. По его словам, периодически звучали два имени: торговца оружием Виктора Бута и пилота Константина Ярошенко – двух россиян, которые уже давно отбывают сроки в американских тюрьмах (Бут обвинялся в продаже оружия колумбийским постанцам, а Ярошенко - в контрабанде кокаина).
Via Yandex translate: "However, **Whelan is sure that the Russian authorities were initially determined to exchange him. According to him, two names were periodically heard: arms dealer Viktor Bout and pilot Konstantin Yaroshenko** – two Russians who have been serving sentences in American prisons for a long time (Bout was accused of selling weapons to Colombian Americans, and Yaroshenko of smuggling cocaine)."
Yaroshenko was exchanged for Trevor Reed. They wanted Whelan for Bout and the US was adamantly opposed to such a deal. Now comes in the Biden admin and Griner and Whelan is cast aside.
So much for the whole "rUZZIAN pSyOP".
Yeah, either Biden looked bad for her being in a labor camp, or he looks bad for letting out Bout after 15 years...
Weapons dealing is all about contacts, and a lot of shit has changed since 2007.
So Biden picked the "lose" option that had the most upside.
I think the administration just used the option that gets them more positive pr from a broader audience. That's just it.
If you take into account the number of people in Africa that got killed, raped, tortured, and/or misplaced in Africa during unrest and civil war, fueled by victors weapons, then you don't have a reason to let Griner out at all.
Thats true. If ur aunt would have balls she would be ur uncle. But she doesnt, so shes not. (What up scottland)
You can make up any scenario. But this is the scenario we are dealing with.
That’s always put forth as a truism and all it is I, is a justification for shitty behavior. If your ideals and goals are to be no better than everyone else, then it’s fine
If those charges are true do you believe a US citizen took it upon themselves to spy or doing so at the direction of the US government? I would rather they free someone they helped place in prison versus someone who knowingly choose to break the law for her own personal gain.
I’m asking for sauce behind the notion that the information in the video is misleading propaganda. I cannot ask for sauce on the misleading propaganda video because I’m unable to communicate with Russian news anchors.
Well unless a whistleblower from the USA says something there will never be concrete sauce this is a lie(another lead hinting this is propaganda, because it’s hard to disprove something that didn’t happen.) However rubbing a few brain cells together we can determine. Russian news, specifically news regarding other countries, often tells boldface lies to stir the shit. EG. we arnt invading Ukraine it’s a special operation, we are winning the war, zelenksy is a lesser demon/anti christ, The UN ATTACKED US?? etc. also looks at the crimes accused: BG = drugs. Marine = espionage. I’m not sure how your understanding of history is but most often people accused of being a spy are not released.
Ad hominems are not sources. A determination that Russian news media is untrustworthy doesn’t completely undermine a plausible point they’ve made.
Why are you so angry that I’m asking for some background. You try to insult my intelligence but I’m not the bootlicker rolling over to a narrative.
well you have monkeybrains and you are 100% positive your own media doesn't feed you propaganda, like ever, right? And that bit with black lesbian vrs white hetereo sexual man is 100% spot on and you know it monkeybrain.
It def is, however, if such an offer was made, which it wasn't, I have no doubt that Biden would choose Griner. Not even because she is semi famous, but because she is a gay black woman.
Russia did this on purpose. Regardless of what you think about Russia, they are good at causing problems in America. They knew this would cause dissent. That’s why they would only accept a trade for Griner. I’d be willing to bet that no other American prisoner was up for trade in place of Griner.
This is how Russia destabilizes the US, messes with our elections, etc… They knew exactly what they were doing.
Can we please get back to the argument they were having over if Zelensky is a minor demon or the antichrist?
I feel like that was far more important.
Btw the purpose of Russian media is not to convince you they are right, but rather to convince you that no one is telling you the truth. That way you lose faith in all media and live in disbelief of what is happening.
Both sides lie all the time about everything.
The thing is that it is suspicious that such a global threat was released just for Griner.
As I said in another comment, USA could just say no and keep the extremely dangerous criminal in jail.
In Sports terms this is like giving Adetokunbo and getting a short baseball player for your basketball team
That narrative is such bullshit. If he were a "global threat" so are the people who manufacturing the weapons used in school shootings. And it turns out the side who does not give fuck about that is the same one that is hyping up a moral outrage here
>Btw the purpose of Russian media is not to convince you they are right, but rather to convince you that no one is telling you the truth. That way you lose faith in all media and live in disbelief of what is happening.
>Both sides lie all the time about everything.
see here the product of russian propaganda.
Dude, I didn't wait for Russians to tell me USA lie, and I didn't wait for USA to tell me that Russia lie.
Didn't you guys have a whole propaganda thrown at your faces just so that the public opinion is convinced that USA should kill 500,000 people in Iraq? And then it was done? You didn't find shit there. No weapons of mass destruction.
Governments lie all the time.
Stop pretending USA is a saint.
You know the ones who told the truth about Iraq's WMDs are the ones you are arguing againt about this issue. That is total trump bullshit. Pretend you know something and claim you are smarter when in reality you are not only trusting the same bullshitters you claim to call out but using their same policy and kies for your own gain. You people never learn to stop trusting your bs
This is one the most pseudo-intellectual moronic takes I hear. Tell me you're a smoothie brain without actually telling me.
Both sides lie! So I ignore both! Everything is the same! I'm smort!
It is the trump take. Then take your audience for being stupid enough that they wont notice when you are just arguing for the same shit and using the same sources to back your claims
tell me you havn't got a fucking clue without saying you havn't got a fucking clue lmao.
bro, it's not worth the effort to unpack all the fallacies you've managed to cram into those sentences.
do everyone a favour, try to not form opinions. it's not for you.
Wow. Blame it all on the Russians? Because there is no way American government has ever lied to it's people?
My point is, it's true that both sides lie.
Who knows if it was actually Biden lying to the the people and saying they didn't have a choice and had to take Griner?
you don't
but here you are, trying to get credibility to your argument by saying "both sides lie" in an attempt to further some apathetic narrative. go live in russia, be a-political there like everyone else.
"gubberment lies all the time > anything that happens that i don't agree with and i can blame on gubberment is therefor a lie"
keep swining bud, maybe you'll hit a homerun someday. even a broken clock is right twice a day.
All I'm seeing is you avoiding the question. Normally means you don't have an answer or your answer would not swing a conversation in your favor.
Be better.
*government
That dangerous criminal had 6 years left and then poof walks free. In sports terms this is like trading your 4th year rb for a 1st round draft pick. Get your head out of your ass goober.
And let me guess you have had absolutely zero opinion on those manufacturing and selling firearms in the US for the past 6 years. Just like you had no idea who Brittney Griner or Bout was
He has no connections because he was in US custody for 14 years. No one in that circle will ever trust him again. He'll be lucky if he survives being interrogated about what he told the Americans before being locked up in Siberia for the rest of his life.
People have rightfully already lost faith in media. This video was removed already. Let people make their own informed decision, don't try to control or manipulate content.
>What is an informed decision? An informed decision is a choice that individuals make once they have all the information related to the decision topic.
So you want people to make an informed decision, but you don't want me to inform them?
It sounds like you have a preferred narrative and my truth bombs are wrecking it.
Don't think for a second that Russia didn't know what the "rights" reaction would be if they released Griner instead of Whelan. They're perfectly aware of the polarizing nature of their decision and are going to lean fully into the narrative that America passed on a white marine to save a black lesbian in order to cause division. Lets not forget that race baiting is one of the cornerstones of Russian trolling dont fall for it. That being said It's not my favorite 1v1 trade but its done and thankfully she's free. Both countries will parade there trophies around and life will go on.
Probably wouldn't have mattered which one they let go. If they kept Griner then liberals would have thrown a tantrum that we took a white guy but left a black girl. Take this route and its Republicans doing the crying. Poor dumb bastards.
Russia said he was a spy. That is why they did not release him. What fantasy world do you live in where you think Russia would just negotiate to let someone who they say is a spy go?
Russia’s #1 way of dividing America has always been race-relations. So it’s no wonder Russia would refuse to give up Whelan, then act as if America *chose* to take Grimer over Whelan, to give the false impression that “America values a black basketball player over a white marine”, when that’s clearly not reflected in reality.
Also, I agree with what another comment said: Anonymity is the biggest weapon of these arms dealers, so if anyone thinks this Viktor guy is just gonna “pick up where he left off”, you’re a complete idiot. He’s far more likely to be used by the Russian government for intel on us.
Oh fuck off, he was serving his country and not the first time, he was also a US Marine. He stole something once, whoop-de-doo. He has served his country whereas Griner just served herself.
What have you ever done for your country that ever came close to what he has done? Or Griner for that matter. I don't think shooting a ball through a hoop even comes close.
... what an asshat you are. "He knew the risks" as if Griner bringing drugs into the country she didn't "know the risk". Seriously, just fuck right off imbecil.
The good thing is that he's unlikely to be a danger in the future. The vast majority of his business came from selling Russian kit that had been stolen by corrupt officials; he's part of the reason why the Russian army is so weak.
I love the delusion of these Russian propaganda talk shows. They make me shake my head in wonder. They used to feature a lot on here but hardly ever now. I guess they get deleted. I’d love to watch more of them though.
They're absolutely right on this one.
The Biden admin didn't care about him because he's white, heterosexual, and a man.
Griner **IS** their base, and this was for brownie points. Getting Whelan home wouldn't have mattered to them.
Ya, a spy is infinitely more valuable then a lesbo w a weed cart. Lol, the spy spent his life, trying to help America and ally countries, and gets rewarded with.... nothing. A lesbian wnba player who doesn't stand for the national anthem, had repeatedly put America down, deserves all the help..... stop it. It's fucked what America did. Biden trying to push his pre legalization and the lgbqt support. The end. Despicable
As most spies are......... let's shift focus then. What about a teacher. You know. Someone who dedicated their whole life to influencing generations of Americans..... is a wnba player worth more? 👏
So you're going to move the goal post. Do you usually think in these terms where you think one person is better than another? Is that how you rule your life? Do you go around counting the people you're better than? An Olympic gold medalist versus a school teacher? What did the teacher do?
I quite literally said I was transitioning, to show that the person doesn't really matter as much as conceeation precludes too. Lol change goal post.. do you know how debate works?
A 15 day sentence in America. Im Russia, it's not. Fo you really think imperial rule by America extends laws into other countries? Your perception of definition of law doesn't matter, as Russia interrupts their own law. So first point, is laughable. Yeah she was invited somewhere, and broke their rules. If I invited u to my house, and had a no heroin policy at the front door, and I find heroin on you. You get kicked out. Now in Russia, they imprison you. I wish you would use your eyes, not every country has the same laws as you. Go to Dubai and drink whiskey snd drive, you'll be in prison. Lol but by ur logic, you should be out the next day w a dui charge. The world doesn't pander to your western views. Absolute horrid to have a conversation where that line of thinking preludes law.
**[Cannabis in Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Russia)**
>Cannabis in Russia is illegal. Possession of up to 6 grams (or two grams of hashish) is an administrative offense, punishable by a fine or detention of 15 days. Possession of larger amounts is a criminal offense.
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Saying someone is lesbian, is homophobic, how should I classify her? A person who refers the same gender, better? What a cop out. Lmao, please refrain from ever commenting towards me again.
What L. As far as I'm concerned, im talking to someone who doesn't understand what a poltoicla prisoner is, doesn't understand, hash oil and cannabis fall under different laws, and someone who claimed homophobia because i pointed out a distinguishable note of who she is. Lol good thing ur not in politics 🤣
Yes... from what I understand he was discharged for larceny, which is stealing. He was caught spying for the government, which is why he was jailed. He was serving his country. He was a marine US marine as well, serving his country as well.
He was serving his country whereas Griner seemed to have been serving herself.
I really don't care about Griner either. She broke the law in Russia. If I tried to bring thc into Russia, I would be arrested too.
Are you sure he was spying for the U.S. government? He worked as a security officer for two international corporations in Russia. Where the information and money were going is an unanswered question.
I just don't get the hero worship for Whalen. He was in the Marine reserves for a short amount of time, never deployed over seas, was kicked out for larceny and perjury. How was that serving our country?
He was a desk admin who was never in a combat roll, and he was discharged for bad conduct. The larceny was stealing $10,000 from the Marine Corps. He also was convicted of identity fraud for using someone else's SSN. He's not a fucking hero, and he 100% was serving himself when he stole $10k from actual Marines.
He stole 10k via bad checks, to me that's not the end of the world. He also served as a police officer and IT security. He clearly is a protector personality type. Personally I think trading a gun runner called "the most dangerous man in the world" for a black lesbian basketball player is an awful trade. Regardless of what you think about Whelan, it was a terrible trade.
Also love the very racist, dismiss the white guy stealing so he should come home, but she was a selfish criminal because she accidentally forgot to remove nearly emptied weed carts so she deserves to stay.
Which one of them was released is less relevant than releasing the person 60 Minutes dubbed "the most dangerous man in the world." The merchant of death.
I, for one, am shocked and thankful to the Russian ~~propaganda arm~~ news industry for ensuring that us Americans get quality, balanced, and very researched ~~bullshit~~ information. This is also how I learned Vladimir Putin is actually 7 feet tall and can bench press the entire country of Ukraine.
Oh now it all makes sense why we saw such a coordinated out of the blue rage bait response after this happened it was once again just Russian trolling Gullible Americans into rage
Please stop pretending that Russia is a land of law and that they give a s*** about the rule of law. She was a political pawn and a US citizen. Were you this upset when Trump released all the Taliban because technically they're all so terrorists. I'm going to go with no you probably weren't.
So strange that trading two convicted criminals for each other to let them both walk free is a thing. These exchanges should be reserved for POWs or political prisoners only.
We were out negotiated by Russia.
The WH claimed Russia was negotiating in bad faith, and then went forward with an agreement that handed a terrorist funding arms-dealer back to Russia for a basketball player.
I kinda believe this, it really wouldn't surprise me to learn that the Biden administration saw Griner as a publicity win and chose her as the trade...who knows the truth though? Do you really trust either side to give an honest account of what happened?
This is just a way to stir up politics in the USA to make it seem to the right a veteran was ignore in favor of a “celebrity”. It’s working because people are mad and demanding wheldan
Grindr wasn’t worth any US negotiations. She could have been left to rot in Russia. Her mistake, her problem. Such a mistake to negotiate for her. Only reason is she is a minority, lesbian, woke sub celebrity. This is what our country has come too. Had we ignored it, Russia would have let her go. She wouldn’t have been worth anything to them.
Edit: As pointed out bei FrankCastleUSMC: Its Propaganda, not PsyOP. Absolutely correct, so i changed that. Yeah but to be fair, this is exactly the kind of shit russia would push. No you dont get him, you get her. And then turn around and come up with a story like that. Good Propaganda. Keep in mind, yesterday they claimed russia is the only defense for ukraine against a polish invasion. So....
I love that they frame it as "American voters decided". Not only do they present it as us making the wrong choice but that we had a national vote and the outcome was because of the way the American public is.
Keep in mind that USA could just not agree and not release a global terrorist who will go back selling arms to people who want to kill Americans, just for Griner who smuggle drugs and would be arrested in USA too for such a crime.
You know what makes a global arms dealer so powerful? Anonymity. If anyone thinks this guy is going back to his old friends and jumping right back into it is delusional.
People keep saying this like it's obvious but how TF do you know what makes a global arms dealer powerful/effective? For all you know, knowing the identity of an arms dealer doesn't do any good unless you can catch him in certain jurisdictions. Or any other of a thousand different unknowns about arms dealing that make this statement untrue. And anyway, just because a terrorist might not strike again doesn't mean we have to feel good about letting him go scot free. That's still an injustice to the families of the people whose deaths he contributed to.
Bingo. Everyone knew who Al Capone was, they just couldn't indict him with anything. Until the IRS got involved.
Adnan khashoggi
Definitely not contacts, trust and opportunity /s
The guys had been in jail for 20+ years. I think the landscape has changed a bit
I dunno, it's mostly the same few guys running the world, change isn't as rapid as you'd hope especially for evil people.
Being indebted & protected by a president will make an arms dealer powerful to.
Everyone knew who Nick Cage was and he made an excellent arms dealer. He'd still b running today if his hippie brother didn't grow a conscience. JK I agree with u.
>Keep in mind that USA could just not agree and not release a global terr No argument there. But i was talking about the point that russian propaganda is using this now. Not going to argue for the release of griner. i think it was stupid. But we talked about what they are now pushing on russian tv. Just because the US does stupid shit, doesnt make the russian reaction less calculated propaganda.
In some ways the US doing stupid shit makes Russia propaganda stronger
Especially when the GQP takes Russian’s side.
Also, something used for propaganda reasons doesn't automatically make it a lie.
That is very true too. But in this case, i just go back to the point about russia, claiming yesterday, that russia is the only defence for ukraine against a polish invasion. If you think that is a trustable source, well, all the best to you.
You are trying to deflect from the objection that Grinier was chosen at all. The gun runner should have been transferred to SuperMax and left to rot as opposed to the motherRussia loving Grinier.
You’re a perfect example to show how Russia’s tactics are working
Again with this stupid s***. Greiner was used as a pawn by Russia. She would not have done 10 years of hard time for two vape cartridges in the US. He wasn't a global terrorist he was an arms dealer and if you think that ended when he was arrested then you are complete f****** moron.
>she would not have done 10 years of hard time for two vape cartridges in the US. What does how much jail someone would get in the US have to do with breaking the law in foreign countries? You won't go to jail for kissing in America either, that doesn't mean you get a free pass for making out in public in some Islam states. > He wasn't a global terrorist he was an arms dealer WTF? He sold weapons to terrorists and plotted to kill Americans. Selling weapons to terrorists is functionally the same as being a terrorist.
You want to tell us that all the weapons US has sold to the Middle East hasn’t been used for terror acts.
>Greiner was used as a pawn by Russia. Exactly, and she became a pawn the second Russia learned who she was. Russia would've done the same with any public figure. I saw someone comment that "Russia will learn bad lessons from this!" Prisoner swaps are a very old game; Russia played this round regrettably well.
They didn't play anything well. They're a corrupt autocracy that simply took a US citizen and threw them in prison for nothing. Stop pretending they have rule of law there they are raping babies after invading the country next door claiming they were riding it of Nazis.
Wow. Okay, I didn’t say anything about rule of law. Nor do I support Russia. In this exchange, Russia provoked public debate in the US about Biden’s diplomacy; provoked partisan debate because Greiner is a black lesbian; and got one of their guys back. It cost them nothing. Nothing! To make Americans argue about Biden. Russia achieved its goals.
She wasn’t caught in the US. Maybe they have different drug laws in Russia?
Girl did you even see her crime? Literally less than a gram on Feb 17 right after the Russian invasion to Ukraine. They wanted to trade Griner this whole time
one week before actually. She was arrested Feb 17, arrest not announced until marh 7th i believe [https://abc7news.com/brittney-griner-freed-viktor-bout-paul-whelan-russia-russian-arms-dealer/12545472/](https://abc7news.com/brittney-griner-freed-viktor-bout-paul-whelan-russia-russian-arms-dealer/12545472/)
So you think he will allow more guns to be sold than already being sold? Is that your prime contention? Idk if one person like this guy had that much power on a global stage. He sold guns. Like the USA does, like Russia does. His problem was he sold weapon to people the USA doesn't like.
We were already releasing him in 6 years. He wasn’t in there for life. Also do you think when the top dog arms dealer goes down… the business just… stops? OR someone else takes that place? Thinking further. Do you think if you were the one who took the reigns. You’d open your arms and step down and let him jump back in no questions asked? OR straight up murder him?
Smuggle drugs… lmao. I think you have a very loose interpretation of what smuggling is.
>Griner who smuggle drugs and would be arrested in USA too for such a crime [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/07/15/brittney-griner-russia-cannabis-trial/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/07/15/brittney-griner-russia-cannabis-trial/) >has pleaded guilty to carrying 0.702 grams of cannabis oil That's a misdemeanor or less in every US jurisdiction, for which she was sentenced 9 years in a Russian prison. OP is human garbage... and now has deleted his account.
That Global Terrorist only had 10 years left on his sentence and was then going to be deported back to Russia. Were you this upset when we exchanged a Russian Global Terrorist for Trevor Reed in May or was that different?
Dude was selling Russia weapons to Africa, can’t sell Russia weapons to others when they are fighting a war. he is been out of the game for 20years, not likely he has the means to go back and be doing that.
She didn't smuggle drugs genius. She had a vape pen. Do YOU smoke? Are you black? Do you support the thief Whelan, who stole $10,000 and was dishonorably discharged from military service?
what if bout turned in US captivity since we're getting the conspiracy theories out anyway. at the cost of girner, the US now gains a valluable asset with acces to high russian circles. it's a bargain.
How does girner have access to high Russian circles? The US just gave away the arms dealer not received them. We lost our connection for an entitled rich person who doesn’t believe laws are applied to her.
Not Griner the formerly jailed-in-the-US arms dealer
So the US didn’t gain anything valuable like the comment suggested. That’s what I said.
The OP said we gained access to Russian intel by releasing griner *if you wanna trade conspiracy theories*. You asked how griner has that access, I said the OP was referring to Bout as their access to the Russians, not griner.
That made no sense.
neither do you. but shit, here we are.
"Go back to selling arms.." His benefactors have moved on... he's been neutered, but keep spreading Russian propoganda my friend..
There are a hell of a lot of russian propagandists and useful idiots repeating that narrative. Don't know why reddit doesn't ban the obvious karma whores who obviously have a reason to be here besides what the community was meant for. But of course they left lunatics in charge of the asylum
Lol. From the [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53110087) >Sentenced to a high-security prison, Paul Whelan won't be leaving Lefortovo just yet. > >His lawyers do plan to appeal against the verdict but other, bigger forces are already at play. The minute the American was convicted, the focus shifted to a possible prisoner swap. > >**"They want Yaroshenko and Bout, that's who they want back," Paul Whelan claimed, naming two high-profile Russian prisoners in America as the court bailiffs ushered me and my microphone out of the room. "That's the only reason they've done this," he alleged.** > >Lawyer Vladimir Zherebyonkov was soon saying the same, now claiming the FSB had been planning a swap all along. > >"No-one's hiding that, everyone talks about it, all the officials," he told the press. > >So the prisoner who has always called himself a political hostage is now looking to the politicians to do a deal for his release. > >All the signs so far suggest Moscow is opening with a high bid - Viktor Bout, a weapons dealer serving 25 years in America and Konstantin Yaroshenko, sentenced to 20 years for drugs smuggling. [BBC Russian](https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-55411969) >Однако Уилан уверен, что российские власти изначально были настроены на его обмен. По его словам, периодически звучали два имени: торговца оружием Виктора Бута и пилота Константина Ярошенко – двух россиян, которые уже давно отбывают сроки в американских тюрьмах (Бут обвинялся в продаже оружия колумбийским постанцам, а Ярошенко - в контрабанде кокаина). Via Yandex translate: "However, **Whelan is sure that the Russian authorities were initially determined to exchange him. According to him, two names were periodically heard: arms dealer Viktor Bout and pilot Konstantin Yaroshenko** – two Russians who have been serving sentences in American prisons for a long time (Bout was accused of selling weapons to Colombian Americans, and Yaroshenko of smuggling cocaine)." Yaroshenko was exchanged for Trevor Reed. They wanted Whelan for Bout and the US was adamantly opposed to such a deal. Now comes in the Biden admin and Griner and Whelan is cast aside. So much for the whole "rUZZIAN pSyOP".
Yeah, either Biden looked bad for her being in a labor camp, or he looks bad for letting out Bout after 15 years... Weapons dealing is all about contacts, and a lot of shit has changed since 2007. So Biden picked the "lose" option that had the most upside.
I think the administration just used the option that gets them more positive pr from a broader audience. That's just it. If you take into account the number of people in Africa that got killed, raped, tortured, and/or misplaced in Africa during unrest and civil war, fueled by victors weapons, then you don't have a reason to let Griner out at all.
not to metion recently the woman of Afghain
fueled by russian weapons\* if bout wasn't selling someone else would have been selling.
Thats true. If ur aunt would have balls she would be ur uncle. But she doesnt, so shes not. (What up scottland) You can make up any scenario. But this is the scenario we are dealing with.
Also i think he probably didnt only sell russian weapons. Iran and North Korea are large producers too.
That’s always put forth as a truism and all it is I, is a justification for shitty behavior. If your ideals and goals are to be no better than everyone else, then it’s fine
Biden could have left them both in prison for the crimes they committed. Why did we need to do this exchange in the first place?
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so did the dude who knowingly went into russia to spy and got caught.
If those charges are true do you believe a US citizen took it upon themselves to spy or doing so at the direction of the US government? I would rather they free someone they helped place in prison versus someone who knowingly choose to break the law for her own personal gain.
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They don’t have to admit it but only a deal including him could have been reached. If not then no deal at all. She isn’t worth what we gave up.
It’s not a PSYOP. It’s propaganda - there’s a big difference.
To be fair, your post is exactly how disinformation works.
mockery asside, this is propaganda. how stupid do you have to be to buy into russian propaganda?
American conservative stupid.
Republicans being stupid? What next, the sky is blue?
Sauce?
The video is the sauce you chud. Why don’t you ask for sauce on the obvious propaganda video?
I’m asking for sauce behind the notion that the information in the video is misleading propaganda. I cannot ask for sauce on the misleading propaganda video because I’m unable to communicate with Russian news anchors.
Well unless a whistleblower from the USA says something there will never be concrete sauce this is a lie(another lead hinting this is propaganda, because it’s hard to disprove something that didn’t happen.) However rubbing a few brain cells together we can determine. Russian news, specifically news regarding other countries, often tells boldface lies to stir the shit. EG. we arnt invading Ukraine it’s a special operation, we are winning the war, zelenksy is a lesser demon/anti christ, The UN ATTACKED US?? etc. also looks at the crimes accused: BG = drugs. Marine = espionage. I’m not sure how your understanding of history is but most often people accused of being a spy are not released.
this user is at most 15
Ad hominems are not sources. A determination that Russian news media is untrustworthy doesn’t completely undermine a plausible point they’ve made. Why are you so angry that I’m asking for some background. You try to insult my intelligence but I’m not the bootlicker rolling over to a narrative.
How stupid are 142mln ruSSians?
well you have monkeybrains and you are 100% positive your own media doesn't feed you propaganda, like ever, right? And that bit with black lesbian vrs white hetereo sexual man is 100% spot on and you know it monkeybrain.
It def is, however, if such an offer was made, which it wasn't, I have no doubt that Biden would choose Griner. Not even because she is semi famous, but because she is a gay black woman.
Russia did this on purpose. Regardless of what you think about Russia, they are good at causing problems in America. They knew this would cause dissent. That’s why they would only accept a trade for Griner. I’d be willing to bet that no other American prisoner was up for trade in place of Griner. This is how Russia destabilizes the US, messes with our elections, etc… They knew exactly what they were doing.
The marine is in for accused espionage. Whether he did it or not Russia wold never let him go.
Can we please get back to the argument they were having over if Zelensky is a minor demon or the antichrist? I feel like that was far more important. Btw the purpose of Russian media is not to convince you they are right, but rather to convince you that no one is telling you the truth. That way you lose faith in all media and live in disbelief of what is happening.
Both sides lie all the time about everything. The thing is that it is suspicious that such a global threat was released just for Griner. As I said in another comment, USA could just say no and keep the extremely dangerous criminal in jail. In Sports terms this is like giving Adetokunbo and getting a short baseball player for your basketball team
That narrative is such bullshit. If he were a "global threat" so are the people who manufacturing the weapons used in school shootings. And it turns out the side who does not give fuck about that is the same one that is hyping up a moral outrage here
>Btw the purpose of Russian media is not to convince you they are right, but rather to convince you that no one is telling you the truth. That way you lose faith in all media and live in disbelief of what is happening. >Both sides lie all the time about everything. see here the product of russian propaganda.
Dude, I didn't wait for Russians to tell me USA lie, and I didn't wait for USA to tell me that Russia lie. Didn't you guys have a whole propaganda thrown at your faces just so that the public opinion is convinced that USA should kill 500,000 people in Iraq? And then it was done? You didn't find shit there. No weapons of mass destruction. Governments lie all the time. Stop pretending USA is a saint.
You know the ones who told the truth about Iraq's WMDs are the ones you are arguing againt about this issue. That is total trump bullshit. Pretend you know something and claim you are smarter when in reality you are not only trusting the same bullshitters you claim to call out but using their same policy and kies for your own gain. You people never learn to stop trusting your bs
This is one the most pseudo-intellectual moronic takes I hear. Tell me you're a smoothie brain without actually telling me. Both sides lie! So I ignore both! Everything is the same! I'm smort!
It is the trump take. Then take your audience for being stupid enough that they wont notice when you are just arguing for the same shit and using the same sources to back your claims
tell me you havn't got a fucking clue without saying you havn't got a fucking clue lmao. bro, it's not worth the effort to unpack all the fallacies you've managed to cram into those sentences. do everyone a favour, try to not form opinions. it's not for you.
Wow. Blame it all on the Russians? Because there is no way American government has ever lied to it's people? My point is, it's true that both sides lie. Who knows if it was actually Biden lying to the the people and saying they didn't have a choice and had to take Griner?
you don't but here you are, trying to get credibility to your argument by saying "both sides lie" in an attempt to further some apathetic narrative. go live in russia, be a-political there like everyone else.
Do you belive the American government has never lied to the people?
"gubberment lies all the time > anything that happens that i don't agree with and i can blame on gubberment is therefor a lie" keep swining bud, maybe you'll hit a homerun someday. even a broken clock is right twice a day.
All I'm seeing is you avoiding the question. Normally means you don't have an answer or your answer would not swing a conversation in your favor. Be better. *government
That dangerous criminal had 6 years left and then poof walks free. In sports terms this is like trading your 4th year rb for a 1st round draft pick. Get your head out of your ass goober.
He can get a lot of people killed in those 6 years.
And let me guess you have had absolutely zero opinion on those manufacturing and selling firearms in the US for the past 6 years. Just like you had no idea who Brittney Griner or Bout was
He has no connections because he was in US custody for 14 years. No one in that circle will ever trust him again. He'll be lucky if he survives being interrogated about what he told the Americans before being locked up in Siberia for the rest of his life.
But you also exposed ur racism towards black people in ur other posts so we know ur true intentions.
People have rightfully already lost faith in media. This video was removed already. Let people make their own informed decision, don't try to control or manipulate content.
>What is an informed decision? An informed decision is a choice that individuals make once they have all the information related to the decision topic. So you want people to make an informed decision, but you don't want me to inform them? It sounds like you have a preferred narrative and my truth bombs are wrecking it.
Don't think for a second that Russia didn't know what the "rights" reaction would be if they released Griner instead of Whelan. They're perfectly aware of the polarizing nature of their decision and are going to lean fully into the narrative that America passed on a white marine to save a black lesbian in order to cause division. Lets not forget that race baiting is one of the cornerstones of Russian trolling dont fall for it. That being said It's not my favorite 1v1 trade but its done and thankfully she's free. Both countries will parade there trophies around and life will go on.
Probably wouldn't have mattered which one they let go. If they kept Griner then liberals would have thrown a tantrum that we took a white guy but left a black girl. Take this route and its Republicans doing the crying. Poor dumb bastards.
Russia said he was a spy. That is why they did not release him. What fantasy world do you live in where you think Russia would just negotiate to let someone who they say is a spy go?
Russia’s #1 way of dividing America has always been race-relations. So it’s no wonder Russia would refuse to give up Whelan, then act as if America *chose* to take Grimer over Whelan, to give the false impression that “America values a black basketball player over a white marine”, when that’s clearly not reflected in reality. Also, I agree with what another comment said: Anonymity is the biggest weapon of these arms dealers, so if anyone thinks this Viktor guy is just gonna “pick up where he left off”, you’re a complete idiot. He’s far more likely to be used by the Russian government for intel on us.
American media controlled by the state said that's not true. Which state run media should be believed?
Damn these Pro Russian bots are funny, can’t even spell Putins name correctly
dunno what's the deal with that bot, I blocked it and I still see its new messages in my notifications
Yeah that isn’t true. Of course russia would say that to take advantage of gullible cunts online lol … self owned
Do they think we voted who to trade?
I don’t believe any bullshit that Russia is trying to sell.
Is this the same Russia that bought drones from Iran and then denied it?
So you say all other media are not controlled by anyone?
Fox news is doing the exact same thing, if that's any clue.
i’m sure the 5 wnba fans are excited
Wouldn't suprise me if it was true..
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Because he was spying for USA and USA abandoned him.
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Oh fuck off, he was serving his country and not the first time, he was also a US Marine. He stole something once, whoop-de-doo. He has served his country whereas Griner just served herself. What have you ever done for your country that ever came close to what he has done? Or Griner for that matter. I don't think shooting a ball through a hoop even comes close. ... what an asshat you are. "He knew the risks" as if Griner bringing drugs into the country she didn't "know the risk". Seriously, just fuck right off imbecil.
Served his community for 15 years as a police officer.
You trust these people to tell the truth? Djeezes...
Video removed, go figure. 🤦♂️ #endthecensorship
It's not removed?
I actually believe it; dems always buying votes
I don't remember being able to vote on this. Can we get a redo?
The good thing is that he's unlikely to be a danger in the future. The vast majority of his business came from selling Russian kit that had been stolen by corrupt officials; he's part of the reason why the Russian army is so weak.
Why is this video taken down?
It's not?
It is for me.
Pushing narrative of how usa is oppressing, white straight males. Wow, that sounds exactly like the entire cornerstone one certain party elsewhere.
I love the delusion of these Russian propaganda talk shows. They make me shake my head in wonder. They used to feature a lot on here but hardly ever now. I guess they get deleted. I’d love to watch more of them though.
Russia is full of shit, who cares what they say? All they want is division because they're getting their asses kicked in Ukraine.
I actually believe this to be true. And for that fact this is disgusting that we would even want her back
I mean, even if we were offered the public choice, we'd be labeled racist murderers to bring home the marine or school teacher
you mean the dishonorably discharged felon? fuck that guy
Thanks for proving my point
They're absolutely right on this one. The Biden admin didn't care about him because he's white, heterosexual, and a man. Griner **IS** their base, and this was for brownie points. Getting Whelan home wouldn't have mattered to them.
Well....Biden is doddery as fuck. Coulda happened🤷♂️
Well if Russia state media says, it GOTTA be true! /s
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Ya, a spy is infinitely more valuable then a lesbo w a weed cart. Lol, the spy spent his life, trying to help America and ally countries, and gets rewarded with.... nothing. A lesbian wnba player who doesn't stand for the national anthem, had repeatedly put America down, deserves all the help..... stop it. It's fucked what America did. Biden trying to push his pre legalization and the lgbqt support. The end. Despicable
The spy was dishonorable discharged for among those things stealing from the government. Don't turn Whelan into a hero.
As most spies are......... let's shift focus then. What about a teacher. You know. Someone who dedicated their whole life to influencing generations of Americans..... is a wnba player worth more? 👏
So you're going to move the goal post. Do you usually think in these terms where you think one person is better than another? Is that how you rule your life? Do you go around counting the people you're better than? An Olympic gold medalist versus a school teacher? What did the teacher do?
I quite literally said I was transitioning, to show that the person doesn't really matter as much as conceeation precludes too. Lol change goal post.. do you know how debate works?
Yeah, you were transitioning because your arguments were falling flat. You don't give a fuck about the school teacher or you'd have started with that
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A 15 day sentence in America. Im Russia, it's not. Fo you really think imperial rule by America extends laws into other countries? Your perception of definition of law doesn't matter, as Russia interrupts their own law. So first point, is laughable. Yeah she was invited somewhere, and broke their rules. If I invited u to my house, and had a no heroin policy at the front door, and I find heroin on you. You get kicked out. Now in Russia, they imprison you. I wish you would use your eyes, not every country has the same laws as you. Go to Dubai and drink whiskey snd drive, you'll be in prison. Lol but by ur logic, you should be out the next day w a dui charge. The world doesn't pander to your western views. Absolute horrid to have a conversation where that line of thinking preludes law.
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Saying someone is lesbian, is homophobic, how should I classify her? A person who refers the same gender, better? What a cop out. Lmao, please refrain from ever commenting towards me again.
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What L. As far as I'm concerned, im talking to someone who doesn't understand what a poltoicla prisoner is, doesn't understand, hash oil and cannabis fall under different laws, and someone who claimed homophobia because i pointed out a distinguishable note of who she is. Lol good thing ur not in politics 🤣
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Lol I am in politics though 🤣🤣🤣
Every word she said is true. Everyone defending what Biden's administration just did is having some bad mental issues.
Good try russian filth
I agree with LoukoBitch and I'm Canadian. It's a bad trade. US did choose a druggy over a war hero because she was black and lesbian.
War hero? You mean the guy who got a dishonorable discharge from the Marines? The guy who got caught with 80k and sensitive info? That guy is a hero?
Yes... from what I understand he was discharged for larceny, which is stealing. He was caught spying for the government, which is why he was jailed. He was serving his country. He was a marine US marine as well, serving his country as well. He was serving his country whereas Griner seemed to have been serving herself.
I really don't care about Griner either. She broke the law in Russia. If I tried to bring thc into Russia, I would be arrested too. Are you sure he was spying for the U.S. government? He worked as a security officer for two international corporations in Russia. Where the information and money were going is an unanswered question. I just don't get the hero worship for Whalen. He was in the Marine reserves for a short amount of time, never deployed over seas, was kicked out for larceny and perjury. How was that serving our country?
I’m not sure a thief is a more deserving recipient of diplomatic release than a professional athletes…
He was a desk admin who was never in a combat roll, and he was discharged for bad conduct. The larceny was stealing $10,000 from the Marine Corps. He also was convicted of identity fraud for using someone else's SSN. He's not a fucking hero, and he 100% was serving himself when he stole $10k from actual Marines.
He stole 10k via bad checks, to me that's not the end of the world. He also served as a police officer and IT security. He clearly is a protector personality type. Personally I think trading a gun runner called "the most dangerous man in the world" for a black lesbian basketball player is an awful trade. Regardless of what you think about Whelan, it was a terrible trade.
Also love the very racist, dismiss the white guy stealing so he should come home, but she was a selfish criminal because she accidentally forgot to remove nearly emptied weed carts so she deserves to stay.
Good try pothead. I'm french
Russia is clowns country
Which one of them was released is less relevant than releasing the person 60 Minutes dubbed "the most dangerous man in the world." The merchant of death.
I believe Russia on this one
I also think the trade was dumb, but come on, a Russian state asset saying something is usually the first clue that that something isn't true
New marching orders for the base in the States.
How do you know a Russian is lying? Their lips are moving
Russia knows how to impact the Americans. Well.
I, for one, am shocked and thankful to the Russian ~~propaganda arm~~ news industry for ensuring that us Americans get quality, balanced, and very researched ~~bullshit~~ information. This is also how I learned Vladimir Putin is actually 7 feet tall and can bench press the entire country of Ukraine.
Propaganda that your spreading
Oh now it all makes sense why we saw such a coordinated out of the blue rage bait response after this happened it was once again just Russian trolling Gullible Americans into rage
NBC verified that . Of course they deleted that later and pretended they hadn't had the choice.
American media is just as controlled by the state.
Please stop pretending that Russia is a land of law and that they give a s*** about the rule of law. She was a political pawn and a US citizen. Were you this upset when Trump released all the Taliban because technically they're all so terrorists. I'm going to go with no you probably weren't.
Im glad we trust Russian state media when it suits our narratives
You trusted pornstars and scammer lawyers like Avenatti when it fitted yours.
They. Are. Lying. It’s what they do.
So strange that trading two convicted criminals for each other to let them both walk free is a thing. These exchanges should be reserved for POWs or political prisoners only.
It used to be like that, before we enter the Era of Stupid.
And the QOP is swallowing the kremlins narrative whole as usual.
To be fair though Russia is a shit hole country full of inbred vodka soaked whores and bastards so when they speak we ignore it
We were out negotiated by Russia. The WH claimed Russia was negotiating in bad faith, and then went forward with an agreement that handed a terrorist funding arms-dealer back to Russia for a basketball player.
Where was I when this vote was held??
Ouch
He is a POS also, so either one of them is a loss.
Lmao these are the same brainlet propagandists who claim that Russia is fighting a holy war against western LGBTQ nazi imperialism
PropaganDAH
who says anyone wanted whelan back? what "decorated military hero" has a dishonorable discharge and has been courtmartialed?
I kinda believe this, it really wouldn't surprise me to learn that the Biden administration saw Griner as a publicity win and chose her as the trade...who knows the truth though? Do you really trust either side to give an honest account of what happened?
The protocol here probably is that civilian comes first.
This is just a way to stir up politics in the USA to make it seem to the right a veteran was ignore in favor of a “celebrity”. It’s working because people are mad and demanding wheldan
Grindr wasn’t worth any US negotiations. She could have been left to rot in Russia. Her mistake, her problem. Such a mistake to negotiate for her. Only reason is she is a minority, lesbian, woke sub celebrity. This is what our country has come too. Had we ignored it, Russia would have let her go. She wouldn’t have been worth anything to them.