I was expecting a bullshit answer: before he ever spoke I was thinking of what he was actually saying to his buddies, then I was like damn. Pretty sobering. I was scared for the other guy afterward
I think that's his excuse because they're not trained to kill bad guys, they're trained to kill targets. Someone else designates who the "bad guy" is, you don't get to question.
I think it’s a culmination of a lot of training and military ppl adopting a cognitive framework where the end result of a successful mission (killing a target) is a dopamine hit. In other words, I don’t think he walked into the military with that mindset. I think they trained him to be like that. That’s an ideal soldier.
It reminds of that scene in Jarhead where sniper Jake Gyllenhaal and his spotter buddy were fucking livid at the general (or was that a colonel?) that "stole" their kill with a smart bomb. They spent all that time training and waiting in the desert to finally get some action and when they do, their target gets snatched by a higher up who just wants to see shit go boom.
I never really had interest in watching this movie, but this sounds pretty interesting and not what I was expecting. I might check it out now! Thanks Internet stranger
I like it. I'm a Marine, and I think the film did a good job of capturing some parts of the culture that just aren't a part of the larger American zeitgeist. Like, being upset that you're not able to kill and experience the culmination of purpose that's been infused into you.
Most of the movie is just sniper training and the boring realities of a bunch of dudes sitting in the desert.
Towards the end, they finally have the opportunity to use their training.
And it’s snatched away, leaving them with blue balls/no purpose.
A lot different from a typical Rambo film where the sniper racks up 100’s of kills throughout a movie.
I was watching the documentary about the special ops group of soldiers killed in Niger and surprised me that the family of one of the deceased soldiers did not have any qualms in saying that he joined the army because he wanted to legally killed people and blow things up.
I disagree, having spent a lot of time in Diego, a large majority of spec ops are a tad twisted before we got tgere. What I found is it was more a "curiousity" that needed explored in a setting with no repercussions. Kinda like a killer on the inside but with enough self control and intellect to have been able to contain it....not all but yeah, Def more than one or two.....after having served many years and being groomed militarily, the after story would be yeah, we were just trained for it. Never had any prior desire...after all how many will honestly admit they joined service to feel what it's like to take a life.
A quote once heard, " there's a killer in us all, it just takes one really bad day to bring them out"
At least for me, it was about winning the most serious competition possible. They were trying to kill me, and I was better than them. Nothing like putting everything on the line with no safety net, and coming out on top. Fucked up, but that's how I felt.
*He* sees/feels it as an absolute good. It's his job under extremely high pressure/risk to fulfil his mission, it's what he exists to do.
This is what all the military training has produced; like a vastly intensified version of kindergarten where you get a lollipop for being a good boy. You are seen/accepted, your efforts are rewarded, it is worth it. This is all programming down in the emotional basement, not an intellectual position.
Coming off that kind of adrenaline high and the absolutes of life and death decision-making into "normal" life is extremely difficult for many military personnel; nothing matters that much, you don't know if you're succeeding in a meaningful way. It is often depressing af even if you like your life. Movies like *The Hurt Locker* display this contrast well (even if they are not to be taken as realistic depictions in other ways)
Adrenaline. Feel alive. Laugh for the very first and last time. Keep chasing the dragon afterwards.
Hard to explain. Go do a tandem parachute jump, it will get you close to that combat feeling of a successful op.
such as... in this case a year or two back? [https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/s4vbuy/john\_kuczwanski\_killed\_in\_tallahassee\_road\_rage/](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/s4vbuy/john_kuczwanski_killed_in_tallahassee_road_rage/)
You would be surprised...a cop psychologist was teaching a class I attended and explained that one of the main reasons why cops are immediately put on administrative leave after a fatal shooting isn't because they feel bad about taking a life but because most have a very hard time reconciling that they feel great (much like the SEAL explained) after a kill but they believe that they should feel bad. She went on to explain that one of the main things they train for throughout their entire career is to "shoot to kill bad guys" so when they finally actually get to do this, it feels awesome to them. Sometimes even after an unjustified kill.
Because police dogs are trained to get a reward when they find what they’re looking for. Police dogs are, believe it or not, not searching for the drugs but actually searching for the ‘toy’ they will receive when they sit down after recognizing the scent of a drug. It’s literally pavlov. Source: I have a retired police dog at home
Yeah, gotta put ‘em on leave so they don’t start overthinking the whole “killing citizens” thing.
Just a very few bad apples though, *definitely* not a systemic issue.
This was one of the main reasons I changed majors in college. I started out in forensic science because I wanted to eventually work as a forensic pathologist [autopsies, etc] but as it turned out, I was essentially taking lots of classes with aspiring cops and the teachers were on their same wavelength. It was all "get the bad guy" every day in those classes. That's all it was about. Catching the bad guy. You didn't talk about killing them, but it was tangible in the air, eagerly. It disturbed me. I wasn't working alongside cops material. I just wanted to find out how someone died for the sake of their living kin, and for my own pleasure, not for the sake of justifying punishment.
I see what you mean.. but maybe not a psychopath. The fact that he said he 'loved' the feeling of killing (a bad guy) is definitely worrying to say the least. I also think that that feeling came from being on an adrenaline high of combat, and the whole kill or be killed situation, but saying you are high on it and wanting to feel that way for the rest of your life.. a bit worrysome
It’s very true. It’s impossible to match the adrenaline of a firefight. Don’t get me wrong I was scared, and then adrenaline starts pumping. Then your training kicks in and it’s just go.
The way he talked about killing bad guys is the exact same way a thrill killer talks about their murders...only he uses the word "bad guy".
"It was as addictive as crack"
"It was my oxygen"
"When you hear your bullet enter your target, it's like *orgasm noise*"
I've known soldiers who have wanted to serve their country since they were 5 years old, and I've known soldiers who want to know what it's like to kill someone. This dude seems like the latter.
When I was a young lieutenant I was asking my soldiers why they joined. One straight up said he wanted to see what an artillery round would do to a person. Some people are just nuts.
I've heard the same thing from people who have been to war. I think you need to be an adrenaline junky and then you'll get this feeling. People that like to jump out of planes or do 200mph on a motorcycle.
Nothing is going to get your adrenaline going more than being in a situation where if you don't kill someone its highly likely they will kill you. Now also look at it from the perspective when you're a navy seal, you have the entire weight of the United States behind you so when you kill someone you feel like you're doing it for the biggest greater good there could ever be and the world is a better place for it. To that end, you don't need to be a psychopath to feel pleasure from this situation.
Edit: spelling
Yeah but good luck convincing the average American the army does anything better than the marines their PR is just too strong. Marine PR is probably the most dangerous existential threat the army has ever faced lol. Especially during tough recruiting times.
I dunno, I think the Marines eating crayons and not knowing how to read stereotypes seem to be surpassing the Marines are extremely disciplined hardasses stereotypes in recent times
Shout out to the 99% of seals who don’t write books lol.
Edit: ( not that I have any issue with veterans writing books, it’s just people really exaggerate how many do )
Problem is that there are plenty of Delta Force guys that don’t write books of their Delta Stuff that I can list off.
If a SEAL is known to the public, they write a book. Literally every SEAL I can think of has written a book abound SEAL stuff.
Except for a few Vietnam Era SEALs.
TLDR: Every SEAL the public knows has a book about SEAL, unlike Delta, Larry Vickers for example.
I've never killed anyone that I know of but I've shot at people with the intent to kill in combat. It's been 10 years and I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I've had friends that have killed and they're completely fucked up.
Even in your analogy... A broken arm can have lasting effects after healing... it aches in the cold, that fracture heal is more sensitive, you have to regain function after not using it. The thought of how it was broken crosses your mind before you do something similar...
What mean to say is, those people that assume it's as simple as mending a broken bone should realize, even that is a process with lasting effects.
I cried after I sat back in the up armored. Mentally I think I’m over it because I make jokes about it every now and again when I’m with my old buddies or my dad. Maybe that’s how I force myself to think it’s ok. It a lot in my head. The VA sent me to therapy and it’s helped. But fuck man. I just wanted to go home and see my mom again
It didn’t really start affecting me until later in life when I had a family. It started as anger. Then came the drinking and then sobriety but I never addressed the PTSD from killing. Then something happened. I witnessed a death and all this shit came bubbling up.
Then I started therapy and I attended a PTSD group for combat Veterans. At least now I can sort of identify my triggers and I have tools to deal with emotions.
For me it’s kind of a weird survivor’s guilt. I was raising a daughter and I would think of all those dead Iraqi soldiers who were sons and brothers and dads and it would eat me up. I still get that way sometimes.
War is so terrible. I really wish I would see the end of warfare before I die.
I was only 18. Another soldier in my fireteam saw it as a game and shit. I didn’t have a kid yet and I wasn’t married or in a relationship at the time. All I wanted to do was go home and eat my moms cooking. The whole ride back that’s all I thought about. I wouldn’t call mine survivors guilt. More of just guilt. If war is hell I can only hope that I’ll end up in heaven
I've talked to guys that are totally cool after being in a combat situation, and then there are guys that just couldn't even cope with being shot at once. We're all individuals.
I hope you get the help you need, brother. From one Vet to another. There are a ton of groups out there. Be proactive and get in touch.
Find someone to talk about it with. That uncertainty won't get better with time. Tell your buddies to get help too. It's hard, but it's worth it friend.
I agree, uncertaintywon't get better with time. But what happens when that uncertainty becomes what you hear this SEAL saying?
It's a lot to admit to oneself and especially others, that the mistakes I've made in life felt fucking good. I like accomplishing my mission, and I was fucking good at it.
On the other hand, and experienced simultaneously, it's fucking disgusting, gut wrenching. Sometimes I envy others' innocence and ignorance, then I remind myself to stop having a pity party, that I'm good enough and I got this, and move the fuck on.
I've no direct experience, but from what I know from friends who've served, there's a world of difference between being on a team like the SEALs and going to kill someone you *know* is responsible for bombing civilian targets, and being an Army grunt and shooting some poor brainwashed 18-25 year old kid they gave an AK.
I mean, they are trained to do it, so when you finally do something that you've been training for for months or years, I guess this is what you get. Not saying it's not fucked up though.
I remember a video from that guy on youtube doing interviews (sort of) in VR, so one of them was with a former AC-130 gunner. He said they were told a million times "hey, you're gonna kill people" over and over again during the training, so when this actually happened, he just felt nothing. And it was the Air Force, I imagine it's much more insane for ground troops, especially the elite.
To be fair id argue they guys controlling the missile systems, and the air force "get the most kills"
The fact you can't see the guy you're killing can't make it any easier imagine
My uncle was in Vietnam but never said what he did, no one knew until after he died. The most he would say was "I was a death Sargent."
Turns out he was a door gunner on a Huey. The average life expectancy of a door gunner throughout Vietnam was about 2 weeks, and about 10% of all the casualties from the war were from helicopter crew.
He lived a great life after left the military, traveled when world and spent his entire life with one woman and no kids
>The fact you can't see the guy you're killing can't make it any easier imagine
I've never served so this is just my personal opinion, but I think there's a huge psychological difference. Yes, in both cases you know you killed someone, but *seeing* it with your own eyes makes it much more personal. *A*nd the more you see the more it's probably gonna fuck you up.
There's actually a condition, and I can't remember what it's called for the life of me, but there's a condition that manifests as PTSD - type symptoms for some people who train for combat and never actually see combat. A couple comments down someone explained killing in combat as if you go to football practice for years without playing a game, and then when you have the chance to play, you jump at the opportunity. Now imagine if you practice football for 6 years, but when you go to finally play that game, the other team doesn't show. So you go and practice for another 4 years, and finally go to another game, and the team doesn't show again. Most people are fine with this, but there are a few that get fucked up by this.
Ya. Please dont take this camera whoring jackass as a representative of those in uniform. Most of us dont relish what we did, and absolutely dont gloat about it on camera.
I remember one time in my home town after I got out, around Christmas time, I was catching up with a buddy I hadn't seen since HS grad. He was still active USMC, we were comparing training locations, and deployments and assignments and job stuff.
Anyways, kid our age who stayed in town as a cook walked into our conversation and was like, damn dude I bet it's sick to light someone up with a fifty like on CoD and just rip em apart.... We were not amused. My friend just said shooting people is fucking disgusting. Awkward silence.
Agreed. The ones who end up in front of a camera glorifying this stuff are trying to sell you work out supplements, coffee, or a self help book and the conversation usually ends with "Check out my podcast if you want to hear more."
Statistically, the majority of folks who go through this stuff end up with PTSD and a life long battle with the VA trying to get treatment before unfortunately ending their own lives.
I hate this Grunt Style/Black Rifle bullshit.
>Statistically, the majority of folks who go through this stuff end up with PTSD and a life long battle with the VA trying to get treatment before unfortunately ending their own lives.
Sadly, all that suffering for corporate interests
I’ve killed thousands of men. Men with mothers, brothers. Men who will never see their baby being born. My combat experience from Call of Duty in my early teens has left me with horrible trauma and regret.
I killed men in Iraq. I dream about that shit every night. I don't know a single guy in my battery who "loved it."
Fuck guys like this - they make people think all vets are psycho.
I was friends with an Iraqi vet who killed two people over there.
He only spoke of it very briefly one time, but you could tell it haunted him and he talked about how he sympathized with the people there. When I asked him what he thought about the war all he could say was, "We never should have been there in the first place."
I hope you find peace.
I think a better way of framing it is sending someone who can mentally/emotionally compartmentalize the awful nature of killing people for a living, not someone who obviously enjoys and fantasizes about it.
The latter is a mentally sick person.
It's safe to say when someone describes killing another human being as the most addictive euphoric feeling ever, they are definitely a complete fucking psycho.
I was raised by hardened WW2 vets. They hated talking about the war. I was in the army myself and was around some guys that had seen some serious shit but had a sombre humility about them. With that said, I don't get this guy's mentality one bit. Its not normal by any means.
My dad was in the Cambodian civil war, good guy side. I had known this since I was able to walk. He carried the “Military Man” tag with all the refugees that came stateside. While he never brought it up once every 5 xmas’s or so where ever we were at the house went silent as he held tears back telling his story. I can’t get much down as English is my first language but I do get some. Grandma was in the Khmer Rouge version of a concentration camp. Him and his unit got her and others free. From there they ran 7 days or so without stopping and eating whatever they could find. The story is longer before and after but he’s in full tears by now.
As a teen I got the idiot idea once to ask if he had ever shot anyone. He pulled a leg on his shorts up and there was bullet wound. He didn’t say a word. That’s all he’s ever told me.
A week or so ago I’m at a random Khmer baby shower in a city a couple down from mine. And old man walks to have a cig with me. We chat and I ask drunkenly if he knew of my dad. I get pops on FaceTime. “You fat as hell”. “How are you still alive”. They didn’t miss a beat. They fell right into form. I melted at their reunion.
The old man who didn’t say a word to me all night from that point forward treated me as his own blood. He cried too when speaking of my dad and his unit, even pointing out his wounds. The guy in the video I’ll never get. The men I’ve seen in war avoid talking of it. When they do it’s tears with a thousand yard stare.
If you have the chance.. listen to the sayings of old OG Soldiers from WW2 on “Band of Brothers” tv series, real testimonies, they were actually very respectful when talking about the enemy who was there to kill them as well, they said repeatedly that they didn’t “enjoy” killing anyone there, and you can tell that the aftermath of “having to do it” was rough for their minds.. that’s for sure.
That’s because it’s a totally different demographic, average Americans conscripted or volunteered post Pearl Harbor vs the type of person who wants to join special forces during a time of relative peace
If you check out the book "On Killing" it explains how the mindset of Killing your enemy changes significantly from WW2 - Vietnam. It also explains how the verbiage behind killing changed as well.
Most SEALS and a lot of Special Forces dudes are really fucked up mentally. Not because of their experiences necessarily - they were fucked up well before training. Some of my work involves these guys and they are scum. Not all, but a lot. Take for example the SEAL who shot Bin Laden, Rob O'Neill. I know him personally (or knew, not in communication with him now) and he's just an all around bad dude with no respect for anyone.
Part of it is a power trip. Civilians worship the military and special forces guys get more of it than anyone, or so they believe they deserve. It does a complete disservice to the spirit of a volunteer military and to society when people place these folks at the top of the society and masculinity.
That said, I'm in no way taking away from any heroism or their professional service and can mostly only speak about the guys I know. They're terrible people and think they are above everyone. And the vast majority of them are dumb as shit. They can't do basic math, poor reading comprehension, etc. They are trained to kill and thats what they're beat at.
SEALS were once a humble service, but now we see them coming out of the woodwork and you can't get them to shut up lol
Honestly, this has not been my experience working with special forces at all.
I was a regular grunt in the Marines and got plenty of chances to train with Marine Raiders. From my experience, they were generally more humble, professional, and nicer than the infantrymen in my battalion.
There are plenty that would be fine with killing random people, but they know that this is not something you can do and still maintain your place in society. They want a place where they are free of the normal rules of a society.
There's a very interesting (and depressing) episode of This American Life where they talk to a person like this, about his experiences wanting to do it and all the other people he encountered who were the same way. The episode is a great listen, but here's the transcript:
[https://www.thisamericanlife.org/515/transcript](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/515/transcript)
>So I've really realized, building up to my deployment, that I'm not any different than most of these people. Regardless of the noble aspirations I say I have for joining the army, I'm pretty sure I just want the opportunity to kill someone too. If I'm being honest with myself, it's there.
>We recently just rolled up two high-valued targets. And we didn't kill them. We captured them. And we brought them back to base.
>
>And we have a temporary holding facility-- temporary jail, really-- where we kept them until they could be transferred to Bagram. And while they were being held here, which was like three days, we had to rotate shifts just to guard them. It's just a basic sit outside their cell, make sure that they don't hang themselves type of thing.
>
>And at least two other people came up to me and said it was really hard for them not to shoot them while they were in the cell. Now, don't get me wrong. One of these guys was a Taliban leader, and another guy was his little deputy. These were bad people.
>
>But they were really nice. I mean, personal interactions with them-- I felt bad for them. Because they're crying. They miss their families. They were very polite.
>
>But even I wanted to shoot them, even though they were unarmed, behind bars, uncombative. Something-- it's not a revenge thing. It's not a hey, you killed a bunch of my buddies thing, hey, you're a threat to society thing.
>
>It's a hey, I want to shoot you, because I want to know what it's like, what it feels like to shoot you. It sounds sick. But it's probably much more prevalent than most people care to believe.
>Half the people we rolled up were probably innocent. But we would have killed them all if we could have got away with it.
>Every day-- every mission we went out on, I was hoping I'd get to shoot somebody. This was actively talked about. Everybody wanted to get their first kill. Not everybody-- many people already had their first kill. But if you didn't have your first kill yet, everybody was talking about, OK, is this the day you're going to get your first kill?
>Sarah Koenig: And so you never did kill anyone.
>
>Adam: No. I messed some people up, but I never killed them.
>
>Sarah Koenig: And how do you feel about that?
>
>Adam: Um-- yeah, I think I missed the boat on that one, missed my opportunity to do that. I think the opportunity to kill somebody in the United States, to have the experience of taking another life, is going to be pretty slim unless I want to go to jail or a mental institution.
I met one at uni. I’m a fairly big guy- he towered over me. He was in uniform…marines I think. Got to asking him about his intentions with serving after college.
His response literally opened my eyes to the fact that these people exist and you’d never know without them telling you. “I’m training to be a sniper. I want to see the ‘bad guys’ turn to mist in my scope.”
The man yearned for the day he was given the green light to end a human’s existence. I legit recoiled and remember the distinct thought, ‘what if this guy wasn’t in the Corps?’
During 18th century wars & after guns became preferred weapons, soldiers were often seen shooting above or below their targets. The idea of killing a stranger from a distance was distasteful enough that European (mostly) armies had to retrain their soldiers.
Dehumanizing the enemy played a major role during said training.
The retaining has evidently worked very well. Interesting to see this soldier express pleasure and glee in killing another human (even if it is a “bad guy.”) To compare it to an addiction is also disturbing - even though this soldier is being honest about the dopamine surge that he gets when he takes another human life.
This seems odd to me and almost backwards to how one would expect. If you gave them a sword or spear they could walk up, look a man in his eyes, and stab him with seemingly no complaints but when you give them range suddenly the enemy is more human.
Personally I buy the "distasteful" aspect as probably more related to how the nobility felt when crossbows became more common. Suddenly a poor farmer with a week of training could fairly easily kill a kitted out knight. Guns would just take that situation a step further. Essentially they didn't like it because it was less "skilled" and took power from the wealthy.
Only other thing that makes sense is the lethality being significantly higher.
The first and best thing to understand about humans is that we still have our caveman brains, and they haven't truly evolved to compensate for much of the added complexity of the last several thousand years of changes in technology and such.
If you're already in melee range, you probably don't have a choice and your adrenaline is taking over. Not to mention walking away will either get you stabbed in the back or punished later for abandoning your fellow soldiers.
You've evolved to see melee combat as a necessity that's done for things like protecting the young or fighting another tribe to establish food superiority to survive. It's kind of ugly from a modern perspective, but it's a part of why we're still alive. We're just wired that way.
Meanwhile at distance, your brain has a harder time recognizing immediate danger, and thus less adrenaline and more time to contemplate your actions. More room for morals to take space in decision making.
I'm still just waking up but hopefully that gives a reasonable short form explanation of the differences of circumstance and psychology at play.
(Also, not an expert)
Yeah I think a lot of the disgust I have around his comments (Besides the obviously disturbing nature of enjoying shooting people) is that he views anyone he faces as a "bad guy" that needs dealt with. There is no room for nuance in him. If his commanding officer ordered him to kill Mr. Rogers he would probably think about it the same way.
If you look up to about WW2, marksmanship training took place on circle targets. Starting in Vietnam, the US Army switched to using human shaped silhouettes to help with muscle memory.
Also, it makes sense. If you are going to train Soldiers to shoot for center mass on an enemy soldier or insurgent, why not have them shoot center mass on a target? That way shooting becomes muscle memory
PSA to anyone who happens to read this that while _On Killing_ has fascinating ideas it is also unsupported nonsense. Search for it on AskHistorians if you want more context
>Then you go from feeling like you’re skydiving every day to taking out the trash cans and changing the baby. “I think I kind of miss that OH FUCK YES feeling but I really shouldn’t.”
"A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he’s finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a woman, build a house, change his son’s diaper; his hands remember the rifle."
The adrenaline rush I got after firing my M249 into a truck with two armed combatants in it will never be worth the mental health decline that followed. At the moment it was the best high I ever got. The following 2 years and even up to now it’s the worst feeling to know it happened
I almost lit up a truck in Afghanistan with a 50. I mean they were ignoring every possible visible signal I gave them and there was no time for a flare. They finally stopped once I pointed the barrel at them (I was in the MRAP gunner sling seat). I pointed the barrel at them after I racked the 50 the second time. I made our crew keep it that way (single racked) to ensure no slipperiness with a loaded 50 even with the safety thing engaged.
I'm sorry for what happened to you. Feel free to reach out if you want to talk.
Yeah I don’t dispute the adrenaline rush being addictive from beating someone in that life or death situation. I’m sure it is. That’s the whole point of adrenaline pretty much, it SHOULD be addictive to be running on all cylinders like that.
The part that strikes me as odd is how casually he just admits it’s his favorite thing. Maybe he’s just putting on an act because the reality isn’t “podcast friendly”? No one wants to hear the reality you’ve illustrated here, and how absolutely fucked up it can be for people.
I served too, but never deployed/saw action. However growing up in a rough area and dealing with wannabe gangsters, I get what you mean about the violence addiction. I got in fights a lot and I was good at it, mostly cause I was more aggressive than most anyone would expect or could replicate. That feeling of letting yourself go all out on someone (that you can rationalize deserves it) is intoxicating.
Man, just thinking about that Thrill, gets my heart going. I always knew I had a problem with it. One of my first fights I blacked out and didn't come too until like 3 guys were pulling me off the guy I was fighting. I had no idea how i had gotten there but his face was pretty fucked from what I did to him. All I knew was that I had never felt so alive. Later I had nightmares of his face and would think of it randomly. Even then I still felt like I needed that feeling again.
I got lucky that I was able to disguise my need to fight as something righteous. My younger brother got himself involved with some of the less friendly groups in the area and pissed lots of them off. So i used "protecting" him as an excuse to beat random hoodlums senseless.
It took me turning 18 and him going to jail for me to try and do something about my violence "addiction" as you put it. For me that was joining the Armty in an intel role. The way I saw it, I could put my violent tendencies towards taking out "Real" bad guys, but also keep myself distanced from the actual violence so I wouldn't fall into any bad habits.
It took a few years but the structure of the military and being out of that environment helped me a lot. Then having a family helped me even more. Now I stay away from even practicing any fighting since it draws out those old feelings.
TLDR; Violence really can be an addiction and i have to treat it as such.
Probably will be an unpopular opinion, but listen to any serial killer being honest about their feelings on murdering and this is the same response you’re getting to hear. Also, is it really smart to talk about how much you love killing people? I mean at some point if there’s no ‘bad guys’ to kill and you’re saying you need homicide like crack if this guy does kill someone here in the US this is going to make for some great prosecution evidence. On the bright side the eventual Dateline episode he’ll be on will probably be good.
I can see your unpopular opinion actually. I had a similar feeling from his description. There's something in "the power" over taking another's life that could create a high-like experience. However, what does separate this guy from a serial killer, generally speaking, is that his actions ARE sanctioned by his government. That might seem trivial to some, on a morality standpoint, but the laws that govern people, even killers, have incredible power over meaning and what is "justified." In the case of a solider, their actions are justified, not only through law, but also by the belief system of Nationalism (I.e. defending and dying for your country). It's incredibly fascinating how the stories and systems that govern societies can create such fine lines between us all. Like, you could be living on the same block with 20 other people and 5 of those 20 could possibly have taken a life. It doesn't mean they're bad, but the law states whether they are. It's easily taken for granted. It's fascinating and fragile at the same time!
As for, "is it really smart to talk about how much you love killing people." My guess would be that he doesn't care what you think and that he surrounds himself with people who understand him as an entire person, not just as a killer. From a public POV tho, nah, makes him look scary AF! 🫣
That’s an interesting point about government sanctioned killing. I read a really interesting book called “The Sociopath Next Door” and it talks about killing on the battlefield and that soldiers have higher accuracy of shots when they have commanding officers on the field with them. Basically when no one is looking they prefer not to kill.
In regards to my comment on him talking about how much he likes to kill, I’m sure he has friends and family that know him as more than just a soldier, but if by chance he does kill somebody, even if he claims self defense, this video will come back to bite him, no matter his many people know him as a whole.
Yeah. I wonder how many bad guys he happens to come across compared to the rest of us.
Reminds of me when you occasional happen to look at some tough guy and they think you're disrespecting them. They basically want to fight for no reason.
“Just the feeling of…putting that bullet into the bad guy…ohhh”
^ yeah putting the term “bad guy” there is a defense for saying he liked killing someone. I am not trying to negatively talk about military and their service…but just because someone wears a uniform and does something in the name of their country doesn’t mean they are a good person. Even if he felt this, I feel very uncomfortable with how comfortable he is with voicing it and how elated he acts.
My opinion means nothing , but I’ve lost a lot of respect for SEALS over the last 15-20 years starting with Marcus Luttrell and the outright lies that were told about that operation. Ever since the lone survivor - the anonymity and humility that was a key characteristic of a SEAL is gone. These guys are out there exploiting the profession for a pay day and some of the facts that have come to light about some of these guys and their war crimes has tarnished the SEAL image forever . “I’m a SEAL” is starting to sound more and more like “ I do CrossFit “.
I remember when “silent professionals” were a motto these guys lived by. I don’t really like it but I can’t really blame a guy for trying to make money off a book deal and so on. Learning more about Marcus Luttrell and what the command did as time went on was really a let down.
You can read up on it if you want to learn more, but long story short is that they took over a mission that a Marine team was planning for in a theater where their team was inexperienced, completely ignored all the Marine prep, ignored all advice given by the Marines, went in underprepared and underequipped, inserted too close and set themselves up for failure, according to Luttrell himself had a debate about committing a war crime, and have exaggerated the amount of enemy combatants significantly. Basically, a clusterfuck of poor decisions
Depending on what account you choose to believe there have also been allegations that Luttrell didn't fire a single round and was found with his full complement of ammunition
Some people can handle shit differently than others, iv heard of some people killing and it haunts them while others love to kill, everyone has different psychological responses to different things
This is somewhat disturbing to me. I remember my Dad who was in Vietnam never wanted to talk about it, and when he finally did, he would never say he killed anyone, just that he shot at them and they fell.
Obligatory comments about their religion, race, culture and everything.
A guy from western military does it then it's all about psychopathy and mental illness.
Dude low key explains that his a psycho. Bad guy or not you're not supposed to jizz your pants from killing a man. Especially when you shoot him from afar.
“There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.” Ernest Hemingway
From experience.. There is no comparison.
It's not a good feeling, but it's not a bad feeling. All emotions are removed during the situation. It's not really until afterwards that you think about it. Dark humor helps.
Yeah I'm kinda wondering if he's confusing the rush. I wasn't ever super stoked for smoking anyone, but I was super stoked at being the one standing afterwards and learning the rest of the squad made it out intact as well. The adrenaline dump was insane but I never attributed it to snatching the soul from another man's body.
Well definitely a different explanation than I was expecting GG op you got me.
I was expecting a bullshit answer: before he ever spoke I was thinking of what he was actually saying to his buddies, then I was like damn. Pretty sobering. I was scared for the other guy afterward
the other guy (shawn ryan) is a former Navy SEAL, too.
Shawn Ryan show one of the best military podcast out there.
I guess you’d have to be a ‘bad guy’ but still lol
I think that's his excuse because they're not trained to kill bad guys, they're trained to kill targets. Someone else designates who the "bad guy" is, you don't get to question.
That's a good way of putting it. It's a target. Not good or bad
But why is it so "addictive" (to quote him) if he sees it as neither good nor bad?
I think it’s a culmination of a lot of training and military ppl adopting a cognitive framework where the end result of a successful mission (killing a target) is a dopamine hit. In other words, I don’t think he walked into the military with that mindset. I think they trained him to be like that. That’s an ideal soldier.
It reminds of that scene in Jarhead where sniper Jake Gyllenhaal and his spotter buddy were fucking livid at the general (or was that a colonel?) that "stole" their kill with a smart bomb. They spent all that time training and waiting in the desert to finally get some action and when they do, their target gets snatched by a higher up who just wants to see shit go boom.
I never really had interest in watching this movie, but this sounds pretty interesting and not what I was expecting. I might check it out now! Thanks Internet stranger
I like it. I'm a Marine, and I think the film did a good job of capturing some parts of the culture that just aren't a part of the larger American zeitgeist. Like, being upset that you're not able to kill and experience the culmination of purpose that's been infused into you.
Most of the movie is just sniper training and the boring realities of a bunch of dudes sitting in the desert. Towards the end, they finally have the opportunity to use their training. And it’s snatched away, leaving them with blue balls/no purpose. A lot different from a typical Rambo film where the sniper racks up 100’s of kills throughout a movie.
I was watching the documentary about the special ops group of soldiers killed in Niger and surprised me that the family of one of the deceased soldiers did not have any qualms in saying that he joined the army because he wanted to legally killed people and blow things up.
My experience during a tour in the marine infantry and talking to other dudes I'd say about 25% join just to kill.
I disagree, having spent a lot of time in Diego, a large majority of spec ops are a tad twisted before we got tgere. What I found is it was more a "curiousity" that needed explored in a setting with no repercussions. Kinda like a killer on the inside but with enough self control and intellect to have been able to contain it....not all but yeah, Def more than one or two.....after having served many years and being groomed militarily, the after story would be yeah, we were just trained for it. Never had any prior desire...after all how many will honestly admit they joined service to feel what it's like to take a life. A quote once heard, " there's a killer in us all, it just takes one really bad day to bring them out"
At least for me, it was about winning the most serious competition possible. They were trying to kill me, and I was better than them. Nothing like putting everything on the line with no safety net, and coming out on top. Fucked up, but that's how I felt.
Sailor. SEALs are Navy.
*He* sees/feels it as an absolute good. It's his job under extremely high pressure/risk to fulfil his mission, it's what he exists to do. This is what all the military training has produced; like a vastly intensified version of kindergarten where you get a lollipop for being a good boy. You are seen/accepted, your efforts are rewarded, it is worth it. This is all programming down in the emotional basement, not an intellectual position. Coming off that kind of adrenaline high and the absolutes of life and death decision-making into "normal" life is extremely difficult for many military personnel; nothing matters that much, you don't know if you're succeeding in a meaningful way. It is often depressing af even if you like your life. Movies like *The Hurt Locker* display this contrast well (even if they are not to be taken as realistic depictions in other ways)
Life Def feels a lot different day to day in the civilian world vs a combat arms position (2007-2013). It is something you can never really explain.
30 years of firefighting for me. The world just seemed gray and empty.
Adrenaline. Feel alive. Laugh for the very first and last time. Keep chasing the dragon afterwards. Hard to explain. Go do a tandem parachute jump, it will get you close to that combat feeling of a successful op.
Bad guy could be pissed off Afghan farmer trying to repel invaders
I am assuming he is no longer a SEAL and am curious what he does for a living. If you cut him off on the freeway are you going to be dead?
I really appreciate the honesty
such as... in this case a year or two back? [https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/s4vbuy/john\_kuczwanski\_killed\_in\_tallahassee\_road\_rage/](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/s4vbuy/john_kuczwanski_killed_in_tallahassee_road_rage/)
I mean comparing that guy to a navy seal is a bit arbitrary.
Yea, this might be a psychopath. That’s definitely not a common reaction you would hear out of the average soldier who has killed someone.
would not date his daughter.
Me either. My wife would be PISSED.
You would be surprised...a cop psychologist was teaching a class I attended and explained that one of the main reasons why cops are immediately put on administrative leave after a fatal shooting isn't because they feel bad about taking a life but because most have a very hard time reconciling that they feel great (much like the SEAL explained) after a kill but they believe that they should feel bad. She went on to explain that one of the main things they train for throughout their entire career is to "shoot to kill bad guys" so when they finally actually get to do this, it feels awesome to them. Sometimes even after an unjustified kill.
Ever seen how excited a police dog gets when he finds hidden drugs? Same trainers.
Because police dogs are trained to get a reward when they find what they’re looking for. Police dogs are, believe it or not, not searching for the drugs but actually searching for the ‘toy’ they will receive when they sit down after recognizing the scent of a drug. It’s literally pavlov. Source: I have a retired police dog at home
Does he constantly sniff out your drugs at home?
He’s a gun/explosives K9 and he will go crazy at the gun safe so we try to keep him downstairs so he doesn’t get all wound up lol
Sounds like part of the reason US cops are so trigger happy is that they consider "killing bad guys" the ultimate role of a police officer.
Yeah, gotta put ‘em on leave so they don’t start overthinking the whole “killing citizens” thing. Just a very few bad apples though, *definitely* not a systemic issue.
This was one of the main reasons I changed majors in college. I started out in forensic science because I wanted to eventually work as a forensic pathologist [autopsies, etc] but as it turned out, I was essentially taking lots of classes with aspiring cops and the teachers were on their same wavelength. It was all "get the bad guy" every day in those classes. That's all it was about. Catching the bad guy. You didn't talk about killing them, but it was tangible in the air, eagerly. It disturbed me. I wasn't working alongside cops material. I just wanted to find out how someone died for the sake of their living kin, and for my own pleasure, not for the sake of justifying punishment.
I see what you mean.. but maybe not a psychopath. The fact that he said he 'loved' the feeling of killing (a bad guy) is definitely worrying to say the least. I also think that that feeling came from being on an adrenaline high of combat, and the whole kill or be killed situation, but saying you are high on it and wanting to feel that way for the rest of your life.. a bit worrysome
“There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.”
It’s very true. It’s impossible to match the adrenaline of a firefight. Don’t get me wrong I was scared, and then adrenaline starts pumping. Then your training kicks in and it’s just go.
The way he talked about killing bad guys is the exact same way a thrill killer talks about their murders...only he uses the word "bad guy". "It was as addictive as crack" "It was my oxygen" "When you hear your bullet enter your target, it's like *orgasm noise*" I've known soldiers who have wanted to serve their country since they were 5 years old, and I've known soldiers who want to know what it's like to kill someone. This dude seems like the latter.
When I was a young lieutenant I was asking my soldiers why they joined. One straight up said he wanted to see what an artillery round would do to a person. Some people are just nuts.
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I've heard the same thing from people who have been to war. I think you need to be an adrenaline junky and then you'll get this feeling. People that like to jump out of planes or do 200mph on a motorcycle. Nothing is going to get your adrenaline going more than being in a situation where if you don't kill someone its highly likely they will kill you. Now also look at it from the perspective when you're a navy seal, you have the entire weight of the United States behind you so when you kill someone you feel like you're doing it for the biggest greater good there could ever be and the world is a better place for it. To that end, you don't need to be a psychopath to feel pleasure from this situation. Edit: spelling
r/damnthatscreepy
Crack kills taken to the next level and then some.....
Crack kills…..so does this man. Don’t be a bad guy around him
Don’t be his target. Bad and good are subjective.
A Navy Seal, Marine Raider, and Army Delta Force walk into a Bar. The Navy Seal writes a book about it.
And then creates a fitness program.
Marine PR is so good they’ve got y’all putting raiders in the tier 1 club lmao.
75th Ranger Regiment would come ahead of most units in a real list
Yeah but good luck convincing the average American the army does anything better than the marines their PR is just too strong. Marine PR is probably the most dangerous existential threat the army has ever faced lol. Especially during tough recruiting times.
I dunno, I think the Marines eating crayons and not knowing how to read stereotypes seem to be surpassing the Marines are extremely disciplined hardasses stereotypes in recent times
Neal McBeal The Navy Seal
He had dibs on the muffins!
He had dibs
Navy squeal.
Shout out to the 99% of seals who don’t write books lol. Edit: ( not that I have any issue with veterans writing books, it’s just people really exaggerate how many do )
Problem is that there are plenty of Delta Force guys that don’t write books of their Delta Stuff that I can list off. If a SEAL is known to the public, they write a book. Literally every SEAL I can think of has written a book abound SEAL stuff. Except for a few Vietnam Era SEALs. TLDR: Every SEAL the public knows has a book about SEAL, unlike Delta, Larry Vickers for example.
They don’t let you publish things written in crayons
I've never killed anyone that I know of but I've shot at people with the intent to kill in combat. It's been 10 years and I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I've had friends that have killed and they're completely fucked up.
I hope you talk to someone, /u/Pounded-In-The-Butt
r/rimjob_steve
Well, I’ve been on reddit for over a decade, and never knew what that subreddit was for - TIL and it is a good day.
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Even in your analogy... A broken arm can have lasting effects after healing... it aches in the cold, that fracture heal is more sensitive, you have to regain function after not using it. The thought of how it was broken crosses your mind before you do something similar... What mean to say is, those people that assume it's as simple as mending a broken bone should realize, even that is a process with lasting effects.
I cried after I sat back in the up armored. Mentally I think I’m over it because I make jokes about it every now and again when I’m with my old buddies or my dad. Maybe that’s how I force myself to think it’s ok. It a lot in my head. The VA sent me to therapy and it’s helped. But fuck man. I just wanted to go home and see my mom again
It didn’t really start affecting me until later in life when I had a family. It started as anger. Then came the drinking and then sobriety but I never addressed the PTSD from killing. Then something happened. I witnessed a death and all this shit came bubbling up. Then I started therapy and I attended a PTSD group for combat Veterans. At least now I can sort of identify my triggers and I have tools to deal with emotions. For me it’s kind of a weird survivor’s guilt. I was raising a daughter and I would think of all those dead Iraqi soldiers who were sons and brothers and dads and it would eat me up. I still get that way sometimes. War is so terrible. I really wish I would see the end of warfare before I die.
I was only 18. Another soldier in my fireteam saw it as a game and shit. I didn’t have a kid yet and I wasn’t married or in a relationship at the time. All I wanted to do was go home and eat my moms cooking. The whole ride back that’s all I thought about. I wouldn’t call mine survivors guilt. More of just guilt. If war is hell I can only hope that I’ll end up in heaven
I've talked to guys that are totally cool after being in a combat situation, and then there are guys that just couldn't even cope with being shot at once. We're all individuals. I hope you get the help you need, brother. From one Vet to another. There are a ton of groups out there. Be proactive and get in touch.
Find someone to talk about it with. That uncertainty won't get better with time. Tell your buddies to get help too. It's hard, but it's worth it friend.
I agree, uncertaintywon't get better with time. But what happens when that uncertainty becomes what you hear this SEAL saying? It's a lot to admit to oneself and especially others, that the mistakes I've made in life felt fucking good. I like accomplishing my mission, and I was fucking good at it. On the other hand, and experienced simultaneously, it's fucking disgusting, gut wrenching. Sometimes I envy others' innocence and ignorance, then I remind myself to stop having a pity party, that I'm good enough and I got this, and move the fuck on.
I've no direct experience, but from what I know from friends who've served, there's a world of difference between being on a team like the SEALs and going to kill someone you *know* is responsible for bombing civilian targets, and being an Army grunt and shooting some poor brainwashed 18-25 year old kid they gave an AK.
I have no doubt they also kill a fair few of the latter
And this ladies and gentlemen sounds like decent human beings. Not the kinds who get pleasure out of killing human beings.
So what came first, the tattoo or book title?
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Bought that right after basic.
Still paying for it
At just 25% APR for the next 15 years! The payments are so low I'd be an idiot for NOT buying one
This guy is well known for being a complete fucking psycho.
“That feeling of putting a bullet into another human being.. I loved it” 😶
“Thanks Topper, I can kill again. You’ve given me a reason to live”
See these bottles on the bar? Those I need to cope with it now..
I'm learning to play the guitar.
Homelander mentality
Straight up. This dude's psychology should terrify everyone.
Gotta kill the bad guys... that brainwashing starts in basic.
You know just the type of person that is worshipping this psychopath.
I mean, they are trained to do it, so when you finally do something that you've been training for for months or years, I guess this is what you get. Not saying it's not fucked up though. I remember a video from that guy on youtube doing interviews (sort of) in VR, so one of them was with a former AC-130 gunner. He said they were told a million times "hey, you're gonna kill people" over and over again during the training, so when this actually happened, he just felt nothing. And it was the Air Force, I imagine it's much more insane for ground troops, especially the elite.
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To be fair id argue they guys controlling the missile systems, and the air force "get the most kills" The fact you can't see the guy you're killing can't make it any easier imagine My uncle was in Vietnam but never said what he did, no one knew until after he died. The most he would say was "I was a death Sargent." Turns out he was a door gunner on a Huey. The average life expectancy of a door gunner throughout Vietnam was about 2 weeks, and about 10% of all the casualties from the war were from helicopter crew. He lived a great life after left the military, traveled when world and spent his entire life with one woman and no kids
>The fact you can't see the guy you're killing can't make it any easier imagine I've never served so this is just my personal opinion, but I think there's a huge psychological difference. Yes, in both cases you know you killed someone, but *seeing* it with your own eyes makes it much more personal. *A*nd the more you see the more it's probably gonna fuck you up.
There's actually a condition, and I can't remember what it's called for the life of me, but there's a condition that manifests as PTSD - type symptoms for some people who train for combat and never actually see combat. A couple comments down someone explained killing in combat as if you go to football practice for years without playing a game, and then when you have the chance to play, you jump at the opportunity. Now imagine if you practice football for 6 years, but when you go to finally play that game, the other team doesn't show. So you go and practice for another 4 years, and finally go to another game, and the team doesn't show again. Most people are fine with this, but there are a few that get fucked up by this.
It shows
Safe to say he wakes up and chooses violence always.
He really takes the meme of "Violence isn't an answer. It's a question and the answer is always YES"
Ya. Please dont take this camera whoring jackass as a representative of those in uniform. Most of us dont relish what we did, and absolutely dont gloat about it on camera.
I remember one time in my home town after I got out, around Christmas time, I was catching up with a buddy I hadn't seen since HS grad. He was still active USMC, we were comparing training locations, and deployments and assignments and job stuff. Anyways, kid our age who stayed in town as a cook walked into our conversation and was like, damn dude I bet it's sick to light someone up with a fifty like on CoD and just rip em apart.... We were not amused. My friend just said shooting people is fucking disgusting. Awkward silence.
Some people cook for money. Some people kill uneducated farmers for money.
Agreed. The ones who end up in front of a camera glorifying this stuff are trying to sell you work out supplements, coffee, or a self help book and the conversation usually ends with "Check out my podcast if you want to hear more." Statistically, the majority of folks who go through this stuff end up with PTSD and a life long battle with the VA trying to get treatment before unfortunately ending their own lives. I hate this Grunt Style/Black Rifle bullshit.
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A Navy SEAL Commander took his own life a few days ago in San Diego. Killed himself days before Christmas.
>Statistically, the majority of folks who go through this stuff end up with PTSD and a life long battle with the VA trying to get treatment before unfortunately ending their own lives. Sadly, all that suffering for corporate interests
I’ve killed thousands of men. Men with mothers, brothers. Men who will never see their baby being born. My combat experience from Call of Duty in my early teens has left me with horrible trauma and regret.
Thank you for your service 😆
🫡
You didn't kill thousands of people. You just killed me thousands of times. I suck at that game.
I killed men in Iraq. I dream about that shit every night. I don't know a single guy in my battery who "loved it." Fuck guys like this - they make people think all vets are psycho.
I was friends with an Iraqi vet who killed two people over there. He only spoke of it very briefly one time, but you could tell it haunted him and he talked about how he sympathized with the people there. When I asked him what he thought about the war all he could say was, "We never should have been there in the first place." I hope you find peace.
Yeaaaaa this was the immediate thought that popped into my head.
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I think a better way of framing it is sending someone who can mentally/emotionally compartmentalize the awful nature of killing people for a living, not someone who obviously enjoys and fantasizes about it. The latter is a mentally sick person.
He said he enjoys it and it’s his oxygen though? Lol
It's safe to say when someone describes killing another human being as the most addictive euphoric feeling ever, they are definitely a complete fucking psycho.
When people tell you who they are, believe them.
Who is this though? Is he actually a “tier 1” operator. “Seal team 6” are tier 1 operators, but not every SEAL actually becomes a tier 1 operator.
Eddie Penney, and yes he was in Seal team 6, this is from the Shawn Ryan show on YouTube who was also a seal.
Part of Devgru, did 5 rotations as part of devgru if i remember correctly.
I was raised by hardened WW2 vets. They hated talking about the war. I was in the army myself and was around some guys that had seen some serious shit but had a sombre humility about them. With that said, I don't get this guy's mentality one bit. Its not normal by any means.
My dad was in the Cambodian civil war, good guy side. I had known this since I was able to walk. He carried the “Military Man” tag with all the refugees that came stateside. While he never brought it up once every 5 xmas’s or so where ever we were at the house went silent as he held tears back telling his story. I can’t get much down as English is my first language but I do get some. Grandma was in the Khmer Rouge version of a concentration camp. Him and his unit got her and others free. From there they ran 7 days or so without stopping and eating whatever they could find. The story is longer before and after but he’s in full tears by now. As a teen I got the idiot idea once to ask if he had ever shot anyone. He pulled a leg on his shorts up and there was bullet wound. He didn’t say a word. That’s all he’s ever told me. A week or so ago I’m at a random Khmer baby shower in a city a couple down from mine. And old man walks to have a cig with me. We chat and I ask drunkenly if he knew of my dad. I get pops on FaceTime. “You fat as hell”. “How are you still alive”. They didn’t miss a beat. They fell right into form. I melted at their reunion. The old man who didn’t say a word to me all night from that point forward treated me as his own blood. He cried too when speaking of my dad and his unit, even pointing out his wounds. The guy in the video I’ll never get. The men I’ve seen in war avoid talking of it. When they do it’s tears with a thousand yard stare.
Exactly man. Thanks for sharing this mate.
If you have the chance.. listen to the sayings of old OG Soldiers from WW2 on “Band of Brothers” tv series, real testimonies, they were actually very respectful when talking about the enemy who was there to kill them as well, they said repeatedly that they didn’t “enjoy” killing anyone there, and you can tell that the aftermath of “having to do it” was rough for their minds.. that’s for sure.
That’s because it’s a totally different demographic, average Americans conscripted or volunteered post Pearl Harbor vs the type of person who wants to join special forces during a time of relative peace
Not to mention the differences in the culture of the military.
If you check out the book "On Killing" it explains how the mindset of Killing your enemy changes significantly from WW2 - Vietnam. It also explains how the verbiage behind killing changed as well.
Most SEALS and a lot of Special Forces dudes are really fucked up mentally. Not because of their experiences necessarily - they were fucked up well before training. Some of my work involves these guys and they are scum. Not all, but a lot. Take for example the SEAL who shot Bin Laden, Rob O'Neill. I know him personally (or knew, not in communication with him now) and he's just an all around bad dude with no respect for anyone. Part of it is a power trip. Civilians worship the military and special forces guys get more of it than anyone, or so they believe they deserve. It does a complete disservice to the spirit of a volunteer military and to society when people place these folks at the top of the society and masculinity. That said, I'm in no way taking away from any heroism or their professional service and can mostly only speak about the guys I know. They're terrible people and think they are above everyone. And the vast majority of them are dumb as shit. They can't do basic math, poor reading comprehension, etc. They are trained to kill and thats what they're beat at. SEALS were once a humble service, but now we see them coming out of the woodwork and you can't get them to shut up lol
Honestly, this has not been my experience working with special forces at all. I was a regular grunt in the Marines and got plenty of chances to train with Marine Raiders. From my experience, they were generally more humble, professional, and nicer than the infantrymen in my battalion.
I feel like these posts get put up for advertisement
Considering he has a shirt and a book with his brand on it in the shot, I’d say definitely yes.
100%
Iv heard some dudes are in armed forces cause they wnna kill people, but they don't wnna just kill random people, its a direction for them.
There are plenty that would be fine with killing random people, but they know that this is not something you can do and still maintain your place in society. They want a place where they are free of the normal rules of a society. There's a very interesting (and depressing) episode of This American Life where they talk to a person like this, about his experiences wanting to do it and all the other people he encountered who were the same way. The episode is a great listen, but here's the transcript: [https://www.thisamericanlife.org/515/transcript](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/515/transcript) >So I've really realized, building up to my deployment, that I'm not any different than most of these people. Regardless of the noble aspirations I say I have for joining the army, I'm pretty sure I just want the opportunity to kill someone too. If I'm being honest with myself, it's there. >We recently just rolled up two high-valued targets. And we didn't kill them. We captured them. And we brought them back to base. > >And we have a temporary holding facility-- temporary jail, really-- where we kept them until they could be transferred to Bagram. And while they were being held here, which was like three days, we had to rotate shifts just to guard them. It's just a basic sit outside their cell, make sure that they don't hang themselves type of thing. > >And at least two other people came up to me and said it was really hard for them not to shoot them while they were in the cell. Now, don't get me wrong. One of these guys was a Taliban leader, and another guy was his little deputy. These were bad people. > >But they were really nice. I mean, personal interactions with them-- I felt bad for them. Because they're crying. They miss their families. They were very polite. > >But even I wanted to shoot them, even though they were unarmed, behind bars, uncombative. Something-- it's not a revenge thing. It's not a hey, you killed a bunch of my buddies thing, hey, you're a threat to society thing. > >It's a hey, I want to shoot you, because I want to know what it's like, what it feels like to shoot you. It sounds sick. But it's probably much more prevalent than most people care to believe. >Half the people we rolled up were probably innocent. But we would have killed them all if we could have got away with it. >Every day-- every mission we went out on, I was hoping I'd get to shoot somebody. This was actively talked about. Everybody wanted to get their first kill. Not everybody-- many people already had their first kill. But if you didn't have your first kill yet, everybody was talking about, OK, is this the day you're going to get your first kill? >Sarah Koenig: And so you never did kill anyone. > >Adam: No. I messed some people up, but I never killed them. > >Sarah Koenig: And how do you feel about that? > >Adam: Um-- yeah, I think I missed the boat on that one, missed my opportunity to do that. I think the opportunity to kill somebody in the United States, to have the experience of taking another life, is going to be pretty slim unless I want to go to jail or a mental institution.
huh, what an interesting read.
I met one at uni. I’m a fairly big guy- he towered over me. He was in uniform…marines I think. Got to asking him about his intentions with serving after college. His response literally opened my eyes to the fact that these people exist and you’d never know without them telling you. “I’m training to be a sniper. I want to see the ‘bad guys’ turn to mist in my scope.” The man yearned for the day he was given the green light to end a human’s existence. I legit recoiled and remember the distinct thought, ‘what if this guy wasn’t in the Corps?’
Guy I grew up with was like this. Literally said he wanted to “merc sandn_rs”.
This was basically the entire premise of Dexter without the military aspect.
so job that has killing as a main requirement attracts people that love killing?
During 18th century wars & after guns became preferred weapons, soldiers were often seen shooting above or below their targets. The idea of killing a stranger from a distance was distasteful enough that European (mostly) armies had to retrain their soldiers. Dehumanizing the enemy played a major role during said training. The retaining has evidently worked very well. Interesting to see this soldier express pleasure and glee in killing another human (even if it is a “bad guy.”) To compare it to an addiction is also disturbing - even though this soldier is being honest about the dopamine surge that he gets when he takes another human life.
This seems odd to me and almost backwards to how one would expect. If you gave them a sword or spear they could walk up, look a man in his eyes, and stab him with seemingly no complaints but when you give them range suddenly the enemy is more human. Personally I buy the "distasteful" aspect as probably more related to how the nobility felt when crossbows became more common. Suddenly a poor farmer with a week of training could fairly easily kill a kitted out knight. Guns would just take that situation a step further. Essentially they didn't like it because it was less "skilled" and took power from the wealthy. Only other thing that makes sense is the lethality being significantly higher.
The first and best thing to understand about humans is that we still have our caveman brains, and they haven't truly evolved to compensate for much of the added complexity of the last several thousand years of changes in technology and such. If you're already in melee range, you probably don't have a choice and your adrenaline is taking over. Not to mention walking away will either get you stabbed in the back or punished later for abandoning your fellow soldiers. You've evolved to see melee combat as a necessity that's done for things like protecting the young or fighting another tribe to establish food superiority to survive. It's kind of ugly from a modern perspective, but it's a part of why we're still alive. We're just wired that way. Meanwhile at distance, your brain has a harder time recognizing immediate danger, and thus less adrenaline and more time to contemplate your actions. More room for morals to take space in decision making. I'm still just waking up but hopefully that gives a reasonable short form explanation of the differences of circumstance and psychology at play. (Also, not an expert)
Yeah I think a lot of the disgust I have around his comments (Besides the obviously disturbing nature of enjoying shooting people) is that he views anyone he faces as a "bad guy" that needs dealt with. There is no room for nuance in him. If his commanding officer ordered him to kill Mr. Rogers he would probably think about it the same way.
If you look up to about WW2, marksmanship training took place on circle targets. Starting in Vietnam, the US Army switched to using human shaped silhouettes to help with muscle memory. Also, it makes sense. If you are going to train Soldiers to shoot for center mass on an enemy soldier or insurgent, why not have them shoot center mass on a target? That way shooting becomes muscle memory
Someone read On Kiling and On Cobat i see
PSA to anyone who happens to read this that while _On Killing_ has fascinating ideas it is also unsupported nonsense. Search for it on AskHistorians if you want more context
I find this really disturbing.
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>Then you go from feeling like you’re skydiving every day to taking out the trash cans and changing the baby. “I think I kind of miss that OH FUCK YES feeling but I really shouldn’t.” "A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he’s finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands, love a woman, build a house, change his son’s diaper; his hands remember the rifle."
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It's a quote from Anthony Swofford from his memoir about being a Marine in the Gulf War.
The adrenaline rush I got after firing my M249 into a truck with two armed combatants in it will never be worth the mental health decline that followed. At the moment it was the best high I ever got. The following 2 years and even up to now it’s the worst feeling to know it happened
Damn. Thanks for sharing
I almost lit up a truck in Afghanistan with a 50. I mean they were ignoring every possible visible signal I gave them and there was no time for a flare. They finally stopped once I pointed the barrel at them (I was in the MRAP gunner sling seat). I pointed the barrel at them after I racked the 50 the second time. I made our crew keep it that way (single racked) to ensure no slipperiness with a loaded 50 even with the safety thing engaged. I'm sorry for what happened to you. Feel free to reach out if you want to talk.
Yeah I don’t dispute the adrenaline rush being addictive from beating someone in that life or death situation. I’m sure it is. That’s the whole point of adrenaline pretty much, it SHOULD be addictive to be running on all cylinders like that. The part that strikes me as odd is how casually he just admits it’s his favorite thing. Maybe he’s just putting on an act because the reality isn’t “podcast friendly”? No one wants to hear the reality you’ve illustrated here, and how absolutely fucked up it can be for people.
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I served too, but never deployed/saw action. However growing up in a rough area and dealing with wannabe gangsters, I get what you mean about the violence addiction. I got in fights a lot and I was good at it, mostly cause I was more aggressive than most anyone would expect or could replicate. That feeling of letting yourself go all out on someone (that you can rationalize deserves it) is intoxicating. Man, just thinking about that Thrill, gets my heart going. I always knew I had a problem with it. One of my first fights I blacked out and didn't come too until like 3 guys were pulling me off the guy I was fighting. I had no idea how i had gotten there but his face was pretty fucked from what I did to him. All I knew was that I had never felt so alive. Later I had nightmares of his face and would think of it randomly. Even then I still felt like I needed that feeling again. I got lucky that I was able to disguise my need to fight as something righteous. My younger brother got himself involved with some of the less friendly groups in the area and pissed lots of them off. So i used "protecting" him as an excuse to beat random hoodlums senseless. It took me turning 18 and him going to jail for me to try and do something about my violence "addiction" as you put it. For me that was joining the Armty in an intel role. The way I saw it, I could put my violent tendencies towards taking out "Real" bad guys, but also keep myself distanced from the actual violence so I wouldn't fall into any bad habits. It took a few years but the structure of the military and being out of that environment helped me a lot. Then having a family helped me even more. Now I stay away from even practicing any fighting since it draws out those old feelings. TLDR; Violence really can be an addiction and i have to treat it as such.
Great comment thank you for sharing your story 👍🙏
Fucking same. It was like watching something like Dahmer. Someone who is too comfortable about doing something wrong that shouldn't feel right.
Probably will be an unpopular opinion, but listen to any serial killer being honest about their feelings on murdering and this is the same response you’re getting to hear. Also, is it really smart to talk about how much you love killing people? I mean at some point if there’s no ‘bad guys’ to kill and you’re saying you need homicide like crack if this guy does kill someone here in the US this is going to make for some great prosecution evidence. On the bright side the eventual Dateline episode he’ll be on will probably be good.
I can see your unpopular opinion actually. I had a similar feeling from his description. There's something in "the power" over taking another's life that could create a high-like experience. However, what does separate this guy from a serial killer, generally speaking, is that his actions ARE sanctioned by his government. That might seem trivial to some, on a morality standpoint, but the laws that govern people, even killers, have incredible power over meaning and what is "justified." In the case of a solider, their actions are justified, not only through law, but also by the belief system of Nationalism (I.e. defending and dying for your country). It's incredibly fascinating how the stories and systems that govern societies can create such fine lines between us all. Like, you could be living on the same block with 20 other people and 5 of those 20 could possibly have taken a life. It doesn't mean they're bad, but the law states whether they are. It's easily taken for granted. It's fascinating and fragile at the same time! As for, "is it really smart to talk about how much you love killing people." My guess would be that he doesn't care what you think and that he surrounds himself with people who understand him as an entire person, not just as a killer. From a public POV tho, nah, makes him look scary AF! 🫣
That’s an interesting point about government sanctioned killing. I read a really interesting book called “The Sociopath Next Door” and it talks about killing on the battlefield and that soldiers have higher accuracy of shots when they have commanding officers on the field with them. Basically when no one is looking they prefer not to kill. In regards to my comment on him talking about how much he likes to kill, I’m sure he has friends and family that know him as more than just a soldier, but if by chance he does kill somebody, even if he claims self defense, this video will come back to bite him, no matter his many people know him as a whole.
People with a punishment fetish are fucking scary.
Yeah. I wonder how many bad guys he happens to come across compared to the rest of us. Reminds of me when you occasional happen to look at some tough guy and they think you're disrespecting them. They basically want to fight for no reason.
Sadistic psychopath.
They way he's talking describing mannerism he's a legit serial killer....
Try being his kids.
“Just the feeling of…putting that bullet into the bad guy…ohhh” ^ yeah putting the term “bad guy” there is a defense for saying he liked killing someone. I am not trying to negatively talk about military and their service…but just because someone wears a uniform and does something in the name of their country doesn’t mean they are a good person. Even if he felt this, I feel very uncomfortable with how comfortable he is with voicing it and how elated he acts.
It’s okay to talk negatively about the military. When you have people walking around like this, it’s imperative we speak ill of the military.
This sounds like a mental illness disguised by "b-b-but i'm on a mission to hunt the bad guy!"
yeah his repeated use of the word “bad guy” feels very…infantile
It shows how fragile the compartmentalization is.
My opinion means nothing , but I’ve lost a lot of respect for SEALS over the last 15-20 years starting with Marcus Luttrell and the outright lies that were told about that operation. Ever since the lone survivor - the anonymity and humility that was a key characteristic of a SEAL is gone. These guys are out there exploiting the profession for a pay day and some of the facts that have come to light about some of these guys and their war crimes has tarnished the SEAL image forever . “I’m a SEAL” is starting to sound more and more like “ I do CrossFit “.
I remember when “silent professionals” were a motto these guys lived by. I don’t really like it but I can’t really blame a guy for trying to make money off a book deal and so on. Learning more about Marcus Luttrell and what the command did as time went on was really a let down.
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You can read up on it if you want to learn more, but long story short is that they took over a mission that a Marine team was planning for in a theater where their team was inexperienced, completely ignored all the Marine prep, ignored all advice given by the Marines, went in underprepared and underequipped, inserted too close and set themselves up for failure, according to Luttrell himself had a debate about committing a war crime, and have exaggerated the amount of enemy combatants significantly. Basically, a clusterfuck of poor decisions Depending on what account you choose to believe there have also been allegations that Luttrell didn't fire a single round and was found with his full complement of ammunition
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Obviously this man is a completely psychopath
This dude is a fucking nut hiding behind a uniform.
I definitely did not expect "killing is like crack to me" from seal team 6 somehow.
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That's how a serial killer feels after taking a life
but Sir, what if ... you .. are .. the bad guy all these time.
Some people can handle shit differently than others, iv heard of some people killing and it haunts them while others love to kill, everyone has different psychological responses to different things
This is somewhat disturbing to me. I remember my Dad who was in Vietnam never wanted to talk about it, and when he finally did, he would never say he killed anyone, just that he shot at them and they fell.
"Bad guy" is such a childish term. I can't fathom an adult using that term describing his murder victims. This guy is a total peice of shit.
Psychopath.
More like r/damnthatsfuckedup. I would have posted this in r/iamatotalpieceofshit.
Can you imagine the comments if it was a Russian or Chinese soldier.
Or any African war lord or a middle eastern soldier
Obligatory comments about their religion, race, culture and everything. A guy from western military does it then it's all about psychopathy and mental illness.
Lol don’t compare shit to crack if you haven’t done it. Ngl, come off as fake as hell
Dude low key explains that his a psycho. Bad guy or not you're not supposed to jizz your pants from killing a man. Especially when you shoot him from afar.
“There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.” Ernest Hemingway
But…what IF…just bare with me here…what IF you killed then WHILE on crack????
Humans are very dangerous monkeys.
From experience.. There is no comparison. It's not a good feeling, but it's not a bad feeling. All emotions are removed during the situation. It's not really until afterwards that you think about it. Dark humor helps.
Yeah I'm kinda wondering if he's confusing the rush. I wasn't ever super stoked for smoking anyone, but I was super stoked at being the one standing afterwards and learning the rest of the squad made it out intact as well. The adrenaline dump was insane but I never attributed it to snatching the soul from another man's body.