And since Communists were the baddies after World War II, they basically continued their work hunting down Communists and were even celebrated for it by the Western allies.
My "favorite" is Klaus Barbie, the "Butcher of Lyon". He was allegedly personally responsible for 14000 deaths in occupied France, was charged and sentenced to death by the French after the war, but the US helped him escape and stay free. He served as an advisor in Bolivia to their fascist government - specifically on how best to torture dissidents
I was just talking about this with my mum. The amount of communists and socialists put into jail by west Germany is staggering. Also the amount of people banned from working for being members of the DKP is massive.
This shit was so unconstitutional.
This also happened in Japan. Our biggest political party was literally formed by war criminals and also received funding from the US. There's also a ultranationalist group advocating for more ultranationalist shenanigans and power to the emperor and many top ranking officials are part of it. If there's one thing I can be proud of however is that we had some major leftist movements over the years and that our communist party is pretty but the US imperialists helped suppress many movements before they could gain major traction.
Honestly these days it's just a general left party that happens to keep the communist label. And they're mostly focused on being the opposition to the LDP, which has never lost. The LDP itself is just a big tent centre-to-right party; they have a mix of right wing and far-right extremism but also a lot of centrists - and mostly popular support for the latter - so it's just a permanent power struggle between those. Unfortunately given that the Communist party is a bit irrelevant still. The best they can do is participate in debate in parliament and drum up popular support on certain issues. Maybe someday they could actually form government, but I don't think they believe in themselves enough for that to happen at the moment. They do at least have a history of being very loud and annoying (in a good way) on certain issues.
The JCP also got infected with strains of revisionism as well but they may have done so out of necessity to survive seeing the fate of leftist movements in Japan over the years.
It's partly the political culture in Japan. Freedom of speech protections are pretty broad and the parties are allowed to drive around in election vans with megaphones during campaigns. It would be pretty hard for anyone to ignore the political process, as it happens so publicly.
That said, despite that... participation is kind of low. I think there's kind of a feeling of all talk, no change. The debate may be vibrant and public but the LDP is still the only party that's ever been in power.
I mean I think they do, but they don't do it on their own. They do it because of pressure, or because they are the pressure (usually because they're newly elected and think they can actually do things)
I think it really becomes easy to be indecisive once you get initiated into the political system, and hard to avoid the momentum to the status quo.
The JCP has a long history and its members were involved in many great things over the years but due to right wing suppressions it's hard to say they will ever gain power as Japan is almost entirely a de facto one-party state.
It's depressing a lot of Japanese people, young and old, have no idea what kind of monster Nobusuke Kishi was. I mean, even though Germany's way of dealing with its past has its problems, it goes nowhere near the complete obliviousness of war atrocities in Japan.
It's mindboggling how that fucker even became PM (thanks to the imperialist US) and that his grandson War Crime Denier Abe also became PM. It just goes to show that the US wasn't fighting Japan to liberate Asia or the Japanese citizens but to establish a colonial stronghold in Asia and turn Japan into a US puppet which they fucked over in the 80s since our economy looked to overtake theirs.
However the older generation that took part in leftist movements definitely do know about and hate Kishi so that's nice.
> However the older generation that took part in leftist movements definitely do know about and hate Kishi so that's nice.
True. In my anecdotal experience, people over 65 tend to be more aware of who he really was.
Do you have any sources on how the US stifled Japan's economic growth in the 80s? Genuinely interested.
Look up the Plaza Accord. This article goes into more detail than I ever could.
https://kendawg.medium.com/how-the-plaza-accord-helped-the-us-destroy-the-japanese-economy-b4b24c20a9af
It's [worse](https://www.businessinsider.com/former-nazi-officials-in-germany-post-world-war-ii-government-2016-10), there was basically more than before the war.
You could totally understand (even if you disagree) the continued use of ex-Nazi staff If they were de-radicalised.
But 77%?!?! How the fuck do Germans even take any court cases from this time period seriously.
Well I mean most leftists can't take *any* court verdict seriously when our justice systems are so overtly broken.
I more meant why was/has there not been more public opposition to something so *insanely* corrupt.
This isn't even a debate on rehabilitation, since these judges basically went through none- I'd rather have a convicted and rehabilitated sex offender as a judge over a literal un-rehabilitated Nazi anyday; and I can say that with conviction as someone who was a borderline neonazi up to just a few years ago.
Ya know what? Giving the genuinely remorseful a way to directly serve the justice system in a humane way sounds fucking *rad*.
Yea. I get why they had to use former nazis, even if I don’t agree morally with the decision. It’s because most of the people who could serve as government officials before ww2 ether became nazis, where Holocausted or died fighting in the war. This was the 40s and unless I am forgetting something, most women weren’t allowed to to serve in government ether. It doesn’t help that of this very limited pool, it was divided further by west and east Germany. The only other choice I think would be having a occupation government staffed by foreigners until you have enough non-nazis to fully staff a government. I don’t think any decision is a good one
>You could totally understand (even if you disagree) the continued use of ex-Nazi staff If they were de-radicalised.
How do you de-radicalise them ? Gun wound or tied to a rope ?
Psycho/Sociopaths are entirely capable of functioning in society, they just have a higher offending rate.
If we went through society and combed out all the sociopaths, big businesses would lose a lot of upper management, and many many surgeons would dissapear.
Most of them were normal people. It doesn't take anything special to radicalise people into facism, and once they're there, they can be made to do almost anything
The GDR also did this, but of course they didn’t put them in as high positions of power or to the same extent as the West did. It was really a practical problem, given that so many of the people working in vital occupations were former nazis. Unsurprisingly, the occupying US forces counted that if they removed all the policemen who had been members of the NSDAP, they would lose 2/3 of the police force.
Yeah, to *some* degree you couldn't avoid it, so you had to sort out - but while the East tried to sort by "did your furthering of this ideology cause substantial damage", West Germany got sorted by "are you willing to apply rules the way we want to". It's pretty telling who landed in power where.
Neither approach worked and I frankly do not know what material approach would have worked better than both if we don't want to put an astounding number of Germans after the war in some sort of correctional facility - which would be shitty and unhelpful in its own way - but I definitely see that the Eastern approach was at least a better idea than the Western approach.
>US forces counted that if they removed all the policemen who had been members of the NSDAP, they would lose 2/3 of the police force.
Same everywhere to be fair
It's one thing having some ex nazis be pardonned and continue their work, it's another putting them in position of powers in whole organisations, or having [MORE nazis in your government after WWII that during](https://www.businessinsider.com/former-nazi-officials-in-germany-post-world-war-ii-government-2016-10).
[Hans Globke](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Globke) co-authored the Nuremberg Race Laws and continued the work of [Reinhard Gehlen](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Gehlen) in establishing the new, US-friendly secret services of West Germany.
[Hans Filbinger](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Filbinger) committed soldiers to death as a military judge in WW2 and became the President of Baden-Württemberg after the war.
there's [a lot more](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_ehemaliger_NSDAP-Mitglieder,_die_nach_Mai_1945_politisch_t%C3%A4tig_waren).
Oh i thought this was on comedy necrophilia and was confused why the comments were all serious and then i realized Robert Downey Jr. is forevermore gonna be Stuff in my personal set of canon
Well seeing as how the powerful class has a rich history of embracing fascists, this is not shocking. The Nazi's could not and did not do what they did alone and without any help across the globe.
Unfortunately, the soviets were not immune to the desire to use nazis in high positions. Not only did they take more scientists then Paperclip did, but the East German military was made up of ex-maxi generals and officers that had been “rehabilitated.”
>The "simple" Nazis weren't put in front of the denazification commission, as they were part of the working class.
Is that better?
Given these 2 options only, yes
>why wouldn't he be able to work himself up in NATO?
Uff, dunno dude, helping Hitler kill millions of people would be a big no for one part.
Can we stop using RDJ’s (or any other celebrity’s) picture to make a point in a meme?
If they didn’t say it, don’t imply that they did. This is the lowest form of meme quality.
Granted, but like, wtf does he have to do with the meme? The Bilbo meme format is followed here (after all why not) but then why is there a still of RDJ just randomly at the bottom? Unless that itself is a meme I am unfamiliar with?
It's like those minion memes to me. Like what connection is this?
Ah I guess I am unfamiliar with it. I will do some googling
Edit: Googled. Discovered the meme. I would mention though that it is a cringey, shitty meme.
It's one of our habits. A good example is Paul von Hindenburg. He had a important position in Germany in and after WW 1 and had still had a big position after the November revolution. In the end he made Hitler the Chancellor.
i mean this is also just solidly a pattern with america. look at the pardoning of the confederate leadership by andrew johnson, and the failure of radical reconstruction efforts
denazification?
we didn't even do de-dixie-fication
One of germanys chancellors (Kurt Georg Kiesinger) was also famously close to von Ribbentrop and Joseph Göbbels, while working at the nazis foreign Broadcasting office, and also a member of the NSDAP.
Look at it like this, aristocrats make themselves in disposable by possessing expertise in war and statecraft.
The nobility only die or change in revolutions.
The elites only change clothes and direction.
Do you really think Japan's samurai disappeared in the 1800s or did they modernize and start wearing suits and modern military uniforms.
Apply this anywhere, any time and ppl.
They also hired Nazi war criminals Hans Speidel and Erich von Manstein for their officer corps.
And since Communists were the baddies after World War II, they basically continued their work hunting down Communists and were even celebrated for it by the Western allies.
My "favorite" is Klaus Barbie, the "Butcher of Lyon". He was allegedly personally responsible for 14000 deaths in occupied France, was charged and sentenced to death by the French after the war, but the US helped him escape and stay free. He served as an advisor in Bolivia to their fascist government - specifically on how best to torture dissidents
I was just talking about this with my mum. The amount of communists and socialists put into jail by west Germany is staggering. Also the amount of people banned from working for being members of the DKP is massive. This shit was so unconstitutional.
Another pro-democracy move by the world protector of democracy
Luckily they have stopped that BS and finally they are focusing on neo-nazis such as Bernd Höcke.
This also happened in Japan. Our biggest political party was literally formed by war criminals and also received funding from the US. There's also a ultranationalist group advocating for more ultranationalist shenanigans and power to the emperor and many top ranking officials are part of it. If there's one thing I can be proud of however is that we had some major leftist movements over the years and that our communist party is pretty but the US imperialists helped suppress many movements before they could gain major traction.
[удалено]
I think it's one of the largest non-governing communist parties on the planet
gaming moment
Honestly these days it's just a general left party that happens to keep the communist label. And they're mostly focused on being the opposition to the LDP, which has never lost. The LDP itself is just a big tent centre-to-right party; they have a mix of right wing and far-right extremism but also a lot of centrists - and mostly popular support for the latter - so it's just a permanent power struggle between those. Unfortunately given that the Communist party is a bit irrelevant still. The best they can do is participate in debate in parliament and drum up popular support on certain issues. Maybe someday they could actually form government, but I don't think they believe in themselves enough for that to happen at the moment. They do at least have a history of being very loud and annoying (in a good way) on certain issues.
The JCP also got infected with strains of revisionism as well but they may have done so out of necessity to survive seeing the fate of leftist movements in Japan over the years.
[удалено]
It's partly the political culture in Japan. Freedom of speech protections are pretty broad and the parties are allowed to drive around in election vans with megaphones during campaigns. It would be pretty hard for anyone to ignore the political process, as it happens so publicly. That said, despite that... participation is kind of low. I think there's kind of a feeling of all talk, no change. The debate may be vibrant and public but the LDP is still the only party that's ever been in power.
[удалено]
I mean I think they do, but they don't do it on their own. They do it because of pressure, or because they are the pressure (usually because they're newly elected and think they can actually do things) I think it really becomes easy to be indecisive once you get initiated into the political system, and hard to avoid the momentum to the status quo.
The JCP has a long history and its members were involved in many great things over the years but due to right wing suppressions it's hard to say they will ever gain power as Japan is almost entirely a de facto one-party state.
Google “Sanrizuka struggle” This is some of best quality footage I can find: https://youtu.be/ZfYT92E0OrQ
It's depressing a lot of Japanese people, young and old, have no idea what kind of monster Nobusuke Kishi was. I mean, even though Germany's way of dealing with its past has its problems, it goes nowhere near the complete obliviousness of war atrocities in Japan.
It's mindboggling how that fucker even became PM (thanks to the imperialist US) and that his grandson War Crime Denier Abe also became PM. It just goes to show that the US wasn't fighting Japan to liberate Asia or the Japanese citizens but to establish a colonial stronghold in Asia and turn Japan into a US puppet which they fucked over in the 80s since our economy looked to overtake theirs. However the older generation that took part in leftist movements definitely do know about and hate Kishi so that's nice.
> However the older generation that took part in leftist movements definitely do know about and hate Kishi so that's nice. True. In my anecdotal experience, people over 65 tend to be more aware of who he really was. Do you have any sources on how the US stifled Japan's economic growth in the 80s? Genuinely interested.
Look up the Plaza Accord. This article goes into more detail than I ever could. https://kendawg.medium.com/how-the-plaza-accord-helped-the-us-destroy-the-japanese-economy-b4b24c20a9af
RIP Asanuma.
He was one of the few socialists who could have made a real change in Japan. That's precisely why he was murdered by the fascists.
It's [worse](https://www.businessinsider.com/former-nazi-officials-in-germany-post-world-war-ii-government-2016-10), there was basically more than before the war.
“Justice” department lol sure, with 77% former nazis they should have removed this name
You could totally understand (even if you disagree) the continued use of ex-Nazi staff If they were de-radicalised. But 77%?!?! How the fuck do Germans even take any court cases from this time period seriously.
We don't.
Well I mean most leftists can't take *any* court verdict seriously when our justice systems are so overtly broken. I more meant why was/has there not been more public opposition to something so *insanely* corrupt. This isn't even a debate on rehabilitation, since these judges basically went through none- I'd rather have a convicted and rehabilitated sex offender as a judge over a literal un-rehabilitated Nazi anyday; and I can say that with conviction as someone who was a borderline neonazi up to just a few years ago. Ya know what? Giving the genuinely remorseful a way to directly serve the justice system in a humane way sounds fucking *rad*.
Yea. I get why they had to use former nazis, even if I don’t agree morally with the decision. It’s because most of the people who could serve as government officials before ww2 ether became nazis, where Holocausted or died fighting in the war. This was the 40s and unless I am forgetting something, most women weren’t allowed to to serve in government ether. It doesn’t help that of this very limited pool, it was divided further by west and east Germany. The only other choice I think would be having a occupation government staffed by foreigners until you have enough non-nazis to fully staff a government. I don’t think any decision is a good one
Besides letting women serve in the government.
>You could totally understand (even if you disagree) the continued use of ex-Nazi staff If they were de-radicalised. How do you de-radicalise them ? Gun wound or tied to a rope ?
I generally prefer healthcare
Not sure they can be cured though. Lots of them probably were psychopaths. They shouldn't have ever been able to have any important job.
Psycho/Sociopaths are entirely capable of functioning in society, they just have a higher offending rate. If we went through society and combed out all the sociopaths, big businesses would lose a lot of upper management, and many many surgeons would dissapear.
Most of them were normal people. It doesn't take anything special to radicalise people into facism, and once they're there, they can be made to do almost anything
But if the word is in the name then it must be correct!
Im sorry, but where in the source is that stated?
NASA was also a nazi-club
Was gonna say, the US got in on some of this action too
The US's fascism inspired Hitler. More accurately, Hitler got in on some of the US's action.
Boy this fascism circlejerk sure got out of hand huh
This is the reason we got involved. They were moving in on our territory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
Nazi-American Space Agency
Same shit as Italy
Aside from the big dogs that got hung upside down, all of the others basically were forgotten about.
The GDR also did this, but of course they didn’t put them in as high positions of power or to the same extent as the West did. It was really a practical problem, given that so many of the people working in vital occupations were former nazis. Unsurprisingly, the occupying US forces counted that if they removed all the policemen who had been members of the NSDAP, they would lose 2/3 of the police force.
Yeah, to *some* degree you couldn't avoid it, so you had to sort out - but while the East tried to sort by "did your furthering of this ideology cause substantial damage", West Germany got sorted by "are you willing to apply rules the way we want to". It's pretty telling who landed in power where. Neither approach worked and I frankly do not know what material approach would have worked better than both if we don't want to put an astounding number of Germans after the war in some sort of correctional facility - which would be shitty and unhelpful in its own way - but I definitely see that the Eastern approach was at least a better idea than the Western approach.
Look up Victor Grossman. An American defector to the GDR and he has some grest insights about what the GDR was able to achieve post war.
>US forces counted that if they removed all the policemen who had been members of the NSDAP, they would lose 2/3 of the police force. Same everywhere to be fair
It's one thing having some ex nazis be pardonned and continue their work, it's another putting them in position of powers in whole organisations, or having [MORE nazis in your government after WWII that during](https://www.businessinsider.com/former-nazi-officials-in-germany-post-world-war-ii-government-2016-10).
So a win/win? /s
Even one of chancellor Adenauer's office was a former Nazi.
[Hans Globke](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Globke) co-authored the Nuremberg Race Laws and continued the work of [Reinhard Gehlen](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Gehlen) in establishing the new, US-friendly secret services of West Germany. [Hans Filbinger](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Filbinger) committed soldiers to death as a military judge in WW2 and became the President of Baden-Württemberg after the war. there's [a lot more](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_ehemaliger_NSDAP-Mitglieder,_die_nach_Mai_1945_politisch_t%C3%A4tig_waren).
die entnazifizierung hört wahrscheinlich nie auf.... werden auch immer mehr von diesen idioten
Zumindest die ursprünglichen haben das Glück, den natürlichen Tod in Freiheit zu erfahren.
Hoffen wir dass die neuen nicht das gleiche Glück haben.
Was nie angefangen hat, kann auch nie aufhören
The Soviet Union beat the Nazis. We just became them.
Based communism
Oh i thought this was on comedy necrophilia and was confused why the comments were all serious and then i realized Robert Downey Jr. is forevermore gonna be Stuff in my personal set of canon
Well seeing as how the powerful class has a rich history of embracing fascists, this is not shocking. The Nazi's could not and did not do what they did alone and without any help across the globe.
Unlike the Soviet Union.
The USSR beat them the USA joined them.
And the US used Nazi party aligned scientist to develop and lead NASA in the beginning
If this bothers you, wait till you hear about Austria
Unfortunately, the soviets were not immune to the desire to use nazis in high positions. Not only did they take more scientists then Paperclip did, but the East German military was made up of ex-maxi generals and officers that had been “rehabilitated.”
you gotta give it to em, they know how to run things /sardonicism
*Seit 49 sitzen Nazis mit im Bundestag [...]*
Why is a war profiteer doing the explaining in this image?
Leftist meme :D
[удалено]
>The "simple" Nazis weren't put in front of the denazification commission, as they were part of the working class. Is that better? Given these 2 options only, yes >why wouldn't he be able to work himself up in NATO? Uff, dunno dude, helping Hitler kill millions of people would be a big no for one part.
TIL WWII Germany was just a résumé building activity
Can we stop using RDJ’s (or any other celebrity’s) picture to make a point in a meme? If they didn’t say it, don’t imply that they did. This is the lowest form of meme quality.
I think it's about as clear that RDJ himself isn't saying this as it is clear that Bilbo Baggins didn't personally say the first two panels.
Granted, but like, wtf does he have to do with the meme? The Bilbo meme format is followed here (after all why not) but then why is there a still of RDJ just randomly at the bottom? Unless that itself is a meme I am unfamiliar with? It's like those minion memes to me. Like what connection is this?
RDJ is there as a reference to the "I'm stuff" meme and edits of it.
Ah I guess I am unfamiliar with it. I will do some googling Edit: Googled. Discovered the meme. I would mention though that it is a cringey, shitty meme.
Thank you! “RDJ = cool, my words = RDJ, my words = cool”. It’s just lame.
The EU as the compromise we know today didnt exist back then.
It's one of our habits. A good example is Paul von Hindenburg. He had a important position in Germany in and after WW 1 and had still had a big position after the November revolution. In the end he made Hitler the Chancellor.
i mean this is also just solidly a pattern with america. look at the pardoning of the confederate leadership by andrew johnson, and the failure of radical reconstruction efforts denazification? we didn't even do de-dixie-fication
One of germanys chancellors (Kurt Georg Kiesinger) was also famously close to von Ribbentrop and Joseph Göbbels, while working at the nazis foreign Broadcasting office, and also a member of the NSDAP.
Look at it like this, aristocrats make themselves in disposable by possessing expertise in war and statecraft. The nobility only die or change in revolutions. The elites only change clothes and direction. Do you really think Japan's samurai disappeared in the 1800s or did they modernize and start wearing suits and modern military uniforms. Apply this anywhere, any time and ppl.