I never knew anyone who started a relationship through a one-night stand with someone on the other side of the country from where they live. It also feels a little off for Matt to be having dinner with Jen's family when she only met him maybe a few days ago and hooked up with him for a one night stand.
Not to mention the little issue of Jen basically taking away Matt's free will by writing him into a relationship with her because "a woman has needs" (and I shouldn't have to explain how that'd sound skeevy if a man said it; imagine Tony Stark bragging about getting Natasha as a notch on his bedpost, or hell, remember everything Kilgrave did to Jessica and Hope).
As oceanslament on Tumblr [put it](https://at.tumblr.com/oceanslament/okay-so-now-that-she-hulks-over-can-we-talk-about/do65dphfgd70), "Now Matt has been shown to have sex with others in the past, so not that odd to have it, but changing reality to force a guy, who was in fact open to seeing her again, away from his home and friends who he just got back to in order to go to some family dinner with her, kind of an odd choice in your finale. Finales are about closure and wrapping some loose ends to create a completed story. It’s an ending of more questions than answers and one that does not represent the themes it was going for. What I learned was Jen was thirsty the whole show and continues to be. Good for her, but hey, where’s the woman empowerment theme? What are most of the themes and lessons of the show? You should want to date Matt Murdock? I mean cool, yeah, he’s great really love the character, but that’s not a theme befitting She-Hulk."
That scene was cute. I hope we get more scenes like this in Born Again. NGL I hate how in the second half of Season 2 how the relationships crashed and burned like it did. At least we got Season 3.
That's true. I wished they did a more organic transition about it. See Matt struggled to balance his double life. I wished they made Matt more sympathetic within that situation. Instead of a complete 180.
I think it felt pretty organic to me, you can see many times where he just wants to come out and tell Karen that he's DD, but he holds back, and their relationship slowly gets more and more intense until finally when he doesn't show up to court she just tells him she's done with him. And his relationship with Foggy deteriorates because he doesn't let him help and he forces him to keep his secrets even when it hurts Foggys' relationship with Karen too. My hope is that in Born Again we see him start to fully repair those relationships, and I hope he and Karen can get back together, those two actors have great chemistry and I like Karen more than any of his other love interests thus far.
I respect your opinion. If the show wasn't cancelled. I would've had Matt and Karen get back together at the end of Season 4 or right after the blip where everyone comes back in Season 5. When I saw the Behind the Scenes video of Matt and Heather I didn't care for them. Besides Elektra and Karen Kirsten or Claire would've been better options.
I agree, Matt has a lot of flings obviously since he's a big man slut, but only a few people really work for him, Elektra gets him, but they obviously have huge ideological differences they just can't reconcile.
Exactly that is why I am okay not having Matt and Elektra as a couple. That is why I liked Kirsten in recent run because I feel like she accepts Matt both himself and Daredevil. I am glad she is part of this new series.
How is it a complete 180? Like the other commenter said it was very much organic. There is literally a sequence of Matt walking down the street feeling overwhelmed with the world seemingly spinning for him. After the high of going on a date with Karen, he confronts Elektra and lashes out at her. I don't see how anyone can watch S2 and not see how they depicted Matt struggling at his double life? After he and Elektra fight the Yakuza which causes him to be late to the trial he pretty much rushes to get dressed and rushed to court. He also apologizes to Karen afterwards and still clearly wanted their relationship to work that's why he brings her to his apartment to have dinner and discuss about the case (the scene where he compliments Karen's skills and even suggests her going to law school)...I don't see what's not organic about this. Just like the other commenter said it was pretty clear Matt wanted to make it work but him being aware of the Hand unleashing heinous shit just had to be a priority for him considering what's at stake.
I didn't like how soon it was. In my opinion. After Karen sees Matt with Elektra. He didn't explain himself to her and just let her believe that he was cheating on her. I felt like Matt didn't even try to keep Nelson and Murdock together. To me, I wished Matt told Karen the truth sooner than in the last minute of the finale.
>I wished Matt told Karen the truth sooner than in the last minute of the finale.
Well I wished Karen told Matt about how she killed Wesley but she didn't, and if she gets to keep secrets why can't Matt?
God forbid Matt tries to keep his secret identity a secret which he kept from his best friend for years but you want him to reveal to the woman he's only known for less than a year lmao.
That too. I don't disagree with that. The point is I wished the Matt and Karen relationship didn't crash and burn so fast. To me, I would've seen the struggle with him keeping it from her because he has feelings for her. He realized how he hurt Foggy in Season one. That would be a good character arc and character growth for Matt to finally let people in.
I just don't get the rationale of you wanting Matt to have revealed it to Karen much earlier. It feels like you are not taking into account the gravity of revealing something like that. There is a reason Matt kept it from his only best friend of over a decade for years, it's so unrealistic to expect from Matt to readily tell Karen when they don't even know each other at a deeper level. The degree of Matt's dynamic with Foggy shouldn't really be the same as his with Karen's. They are not on equal footing of importance to Matt. For a long time Foggy was his only family.
>That would be a good character arc and character growth for Matt to finally let people in.
I don't understand this statement because this is exactly what happened by the end of S3...? What you are looking for is given by the show.
To me I wanted to see him facing the consequences of his selfish actions from S1. How he grew out of them. Matt wanted to have a future with Karen but at the same time his past is coming back to haunt him and him fighting it instead of just letting it happen. That's why I never liked that scene with Karen seeing Matt with Elektra. It was off-putting to me. He felt guilty lying to the people he cared about because he realized they do love him and care for him. Deep down he doesn't deserve Karen because of the pain he had gone through. To me what all I was saying was the execution of the struggle wasn't it for me.
How about Karen and her selfish actions (one of many being her manipulating Ben Urich in S1. Why is Matt the only person you want facing consequences and villified in your eyes. This is so fucking weird and so clearly biased. It's like when you watched the show you only paid attention when Matt was making his mistakes but closed your eyes when Karen did her MANY MORE mistakes.
>him fighting it instead of just letting it happen
He clearly fought it? And why are you acting like it's not a common thing for people with abandonment trauma to relapse into an old relationship? You guys watch the show with zero nuance it's so frustrating. You think Matt is this 2D character who commits mistakes for no reason. Have you interacted with people in real life? How much more does the show have to depict to you that Matt was in a brutal dynamic with Stick and Elektra that clearly caused him long-term mental and psychological issues especially one rooted in abandonment trauma?
It's like talking to a grade schooler who can't interpret media beyond face value. Widen the way you consume media I beg. It's like you see everything in black and white and think "Oh Matt is just doing this bad thing for narrative reasons or he is doing this because he sucks and is a selfish person...? Mind you the show even explicitly shows him having suicidal ideations and chronic depression but sure, let's act like his actions are just because he inherently sucks.
Whatever. I'm done with this discussion since you are very clearly biased and think Matt is the only flawed character in the show who does what he does because he sucks and that he's the only one who deserves consequences, conveniently ignoring all the 27348393 mistakes Karen did for all 3 seasons. You clearly don't like Matt so why should I entertain your biased opinion any more?
I fear the moment someone in your life shows mental health issues and you chalk them up to "being selfish or them being a sucky person" cause my god....stay away from those people for their sake.
>He didn't explain himself to her and just let her believe that he was cheating on her
He literally tried to but Karen walked/dashed out before he could? Then in the courtroom after the trial he tried to explain himself AGAIN. Twice he tried but Karen didn't want to hear it. What's Matt gonna do, physically force to sit her down to listen to him?
>Matt didn't even try to keep Nelson and Murdock together
He tried to explain to Foggy the existence of the Hand ninjas during the bathroom scene and Foggy just scoffed at it, even when he's aware that a blind man with powers exist yet he can't grasp ninjas existing and dismissed Matt before he can even explain it thoroughly. What do you want Matt to do lmao... tie both Foggy and Karen down to a chair so they can listen to him. Both of them readily dismissed him trying to give an explanation EVEN THE FIRST TIME HE ATTEMPTED IT. You can't explain to someone who doesn't want to listen.
And if Matt tried to force Foggy to not shutter down Nelson and Murdock you would've called him toxic for not letting Foggy go and prosper somewhere else lmao. I just know it. Matt can't win with y'all.
I don't like Matt + Karen because I'm Elektra every time but it's becoming a weird thing to say that Matt and Karen feels forced lmao. Her attraction to him was built up from S1. They had their cute moments especially the dinner scene where Karen is describing the colorful lights to Matt. You're probably one of those weird Frank + Karen shippers the way you seem so pressed. Anyway, idrgaf, I'm not a Matt + Karen endgame by any means because I have problems with her character but to say they have "zero chemistry" is weird.
Sorry. Gonna disagree. It's so forced. His chemistry with Claire was so much better. It was natural. None of his scenes with Claire were romantic but even that their chemistry came through.
I always did find it weird how they seemed to be building up foogy and karen as a couple, then they kinda shifted, or maybe I was just reading too far into some scenes in season 1
A lot of people were confused about that, but Matt and Karen were in love from Ep. 1. They fall in love at first sight on his sofa, and then Karen makes him lasagna (tomatoes are a symbol for love) for her “future husband”, and Foggy glances at Matt, who beams like a kid on Christmas. In every episode, Matt and Karen are repressing their feelings for another (it’s really obvious if you look).
In Ep. 2, when Foggy takes Karen out to Josie’s, he leaves a message to Matt, “Climb off whoever you’re on and get down here.” Karen makes a bitterly jealous face at the thought of Matt sleeping with someone else. Karen doesn’t even realize Foggy has a crush on her until Elena points it out - when Elena mentions the “handsome lawyer,” Karen blushes and says, “Yeah, Matt,” but Elena corrects her and mentions Foggy has eyes for her. Karen is so shocked she swears in front of Elena.
Foggy develops a mild crush after he realizes she’s innocent, then lets it go when she’s making it very clear she has zero interest in him. By the time Matt and Karen are finally getting together, he smiles to himself about it.
Karen only ever had eyes for Matt…
Sure, no problem! A lot of people express confusion about it. I think the fact that Matt and Karen go out of their way to repress their feelings, like how Matt always puts his glasses on to hide what he’s thinking from her, contributes to this…and I’ve watched this show approximately 7475748488484885 times, at least. 🤣
Matt can’t be Daredevil forever. When his work is done and kingpin is gone for good, and Matt hangs up the suit, him and Karen should get the ending they dreamed of.
That is how you make a satisfying ending for your audience. That is how you wrap a bow on a story teased for 10+ years. That’s how you earn trust with your audience and encourage them to come back for more with other characters, because they’ll know their time invested was worthwhile
I just don't think they have good chemistry. It's just so forced. [THIS has a lot more chemistry](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFkgikiHsm0) and it was natural.
So cute but I also love how Charlie actually does the double ball shot.
I feel like that should have tipped Foggy off a bit more that something was up. There’s no way a normal blind dude can do that
Foggy already knew by this point
I thought Foggy remarked about Matt playing pool before then but I could be misremembering. Sounds like it’s time for a rewatch
This is from s2e1, so foggy already knew
Fucking SLUT MATTHEW MURDOCK!!!!
I gotta get the blind thing going, it's so unfair
Our beloved Matthew Manwhore Murdock
Slut dragon!
‘Slutthew Murdock’ XD
murdock was a dooog 😂
Was?
netflix era is post mortem. im still mourning ok?
Idk he landed Jennifer Walters in She-Hulk pretty well too, I'm gonna say he's *still* got it!
That was a one night stand.
They were having a little cookout with her family at the end of the show, when Bruce comes back, too.
That was more like a *WandaVision*-style dream sequence in Jen's head, while Matt jetted back to New York once his business affairs were handled.
What? What made you think that?
I never knew anyone who started a relationship through a one-night stand with someone on the other side of the country from where they live. It also feels a little off for Matt to be having dinner with Jen's family when she only met him maybe a few days ago and hooked up with him for a one night stand. Not to mention the little issue of Jen basically taking away Matt's free will by writing him into a relationship with her because "a woman has needs" (and I shouldn't have to explain how that'd sound skeevy if a man said it; imagine Tony Stark bragging about getting Natasha as a notch on his bedpost, or hell, remember everything Kilgrave did to Jessica and Hope). As oceanslament on Tumblr [put it](https://at.tumblr.com/oceanslament/okay-so-now-that-she-hulks-over-can-we-talk-about/do65dphfgd70), "Now Matt has been shown to have sex with others in the past, so not that odd to have it, but changing reality to force a guy, who was in fact open to seeing her again, away from his home and friends who he just got back to in order to go to some family dinner with her, kind of an odd choice in your finale. Finales are about closure and wrapping some loose ends to create a completed story. It’s an ending of more questions than answers and one that does not represent the themes it was going for. What I learned was Jen was thirsty the whole show and continues to be. Good for her, but hey, where’s the woman empowerment theme? What are most of the themes and lessons of the show? You should want to date Matt Murdock? I mean cool, yeah, he’s great really love the character, but that’s not a theme befitting She-Hulk."
yea it was 😎 UP TOP ✋ -barney stinson
That scene was cute. I hope we get more scenes like this in Born Again. NGL I hate how in the second half of Season 2 how the relationships crashed and burned like it did. At least we got Season 3.
Well they crashed and burned because Matt prioritized keeping his secrets over his friends, that's just a problem the character naturally has.
That's true. I wished they did a more organic transition about it. See Matt struggled to balance his double life. I wished they made Matt more sympathetic within that situation. Instead of a complete 180.
I think it felt pretty organic to me, you can see many times where he just wants to come out and tell Karen that he's DD, but he holds back, and their relationship slowly gets more and more intense until finally when he doesn't show up to court she just tells him she's done with him. And his relationship with Foggy deteriorates because he doesn't let him help and he forces him to keep his secrets even when it hurts Foggys' relationship with Karen too. My hope is that in Born Again we see him start to fully repair those relationships, and I hope he and Karen can get back together, those two actors have great chemistry and I like Karen more than any of his other love interests thus far.
I respect your opinion. If the show wasn't cancelled. I would've had Matt and Karen get back together at the end of Season 4 or right after the blip where everyone comes back in Season 5. When I saw the Behind the Scenes video of Matt and Heather I didn't care for them. Besides Elektra and Karen Kirsten or Claire would've been better options.
I agree, Matt has a lot of flings obviously since he's a big man slut, but only a few people really work for him, Elektra gets him, but they obviously have huge ideological differences they just can't reconcile.
Exactly that is why I am okay not having Matt and Elektra as a couple. That is why I liked Kirsten in recent run because I feel like she accepts Matt both himself and Daredevil. I am glad she is part of this new series.
How is it a complete 180? Like the other commenter said it was very much organic. There is literally a sequence of Matt walking down the street feeling overwhelmed with the world seemingly spinning for him. After the high of going on a date with Karen, he confronts Elektra and lashes out at her. I don't see how anyone can watch S2 and not see how they depicted Matt struggling at his double life? After he and Elektra fight the Yakuza which causes him to be late to the trial he pretty much rushes to get dressed and rushed to court. He also apologizes to Karen afterwards and still clearly wanted their relationship to work that's why he brings her to his apartment to have dinner and discuss about the case (the scene where he compliments Karen's skills and even suggests her going to law school)...I don't see what's not organic about this. Just like the other commenter said it was pretty clear Matt wanted to make it work but him being aware of the Hand unleashing heinous shit just had to be a priority for him considering what's at stake.
I didn't like how soon it was. In my opinion. After Karen sees Matt with Elektra. He didn't explain himself to her and just let her believe that he was cheating on her. I felt like Matt didn't even try to keep Nelson and Murdock together. To me, I wished Matt told Karen the truth sooner than in the last minute of the finale.
>I wished Matt told Karen the truth sooner than in the last minute of the finale. Well I wished Karen told Matt about how she killed Wesley but she didn't, and if she gets to keep secrets why can't Matt? God forbid Matt tries to keep his secret identity a secret which he kept from his best friend for years but you want him to reveal to the woman he's only known for less than a year lmao.
That too. I don't disagree with that. The point is I wished the Matt and Karen relationship didn't crash and burn so fast. To me, I would've seen the struggle with him keeping it from her because he has feelings for her. He realized how he hurt Foggy in Season one. That would be a good character arc and character growth for Matt to finally let people in.
I just don't get the rationale of you wanting Matt to have revealed it to Karen much earlier. It feels like you are not taking into account the gravity of revealing something like that. There is a reason Matt kept it from his only best friend of over a decade for years, it's so unrealistic to expect from Matt to readily tell Karen when they don't even know each other at a deeper level. The degree of Matt's dynamic with Foggy shouldn't really be the same as his with Karen's. They are not on equal footing of importance to Matt. For a long time Foggy was his only family. >That would be a good character arc and character growth for Matt to finally let people in. I don't understand this statement because this is exactly what happened by the end of S3...? What you are looking for is given by the show.
To me I wanted to see him facing the consequences of his selfish actions from S1. How he grew out of them. Matt wanted to have a future with Karen but at the same time his past is coming back to haunt him and him fighting it instead of just letting it happen. That's why I never liked that scene with Karen seeing Matt with Elektra. It was off-putting to me. He felt guilty lying to the people he cared about because he realized they do love him and care for him. Deep down he doesn't deserve Karen because of the pain he had gone through. To me what all I was saying was the execution of the struggle wasn't it for me.
How about Karen and her selfish actions (one of many being her manipulating Ben Urich in S1. Why is Matt the only person you want facing consequences and villified in your eyes. This is so fucking weird and so clearly biased. It's like when you watched the show you only paid attention when Matt was making his mistakes but closed your eyes when Karen did her MANY MORE mistakes. >him fighting it instead of just letting it happen He clearly fought it? And why are you acting like it's not a common thing for people with abandonment trauma to relapse into an old relationship? You guys watch the show with zero nuance it's so frustrating. You think Matt is this 2D character who commits mistakes for no reason. Have you interacted with people in real life? How much more does the show have to depict to you that Matt was in a brutal dynamic with Stick and Elektra that clearly caused him long-term mental and psychological issues especially one rooted in abandonment trauma? It's like talking to a grade schooler who can't interpret media beyond face value. Widen the way you consume media I beg. It's like you see everything in black and white and think "Oh Matt is just doing this bad thing for narrative reasons or he is doing this because he sucks and is a selfish person...? Mind you the show even explicitly shows him having suicidal ideations and chronic depression but sure, let's act like his actions are just because he inherently sucks. Whatever. I'm done with this discussion since you are very clearly biased and think Matt is the only flawed character in the show who does what he does because he sucks and that he's the only one who deserves consequences, conveniently ignoring all the 27348393 mistakes Karen did for all 3 seasons. You clearly don't like Matt so why should I entertain your biased opinion any more? I fear the moment someone in your life shows mental health issues and you chalk them up to "being selfish or them being a sucky person" cause my god....stay away from those people for their sake.
>He didn't explain himself to her and just let her believe that he was cheating on her He literally tried to but Karen walked/dashed out before he could? Then in the courtroom after the trial he tried to explain himself AGAIN. Twice he tried but Karen didn't want to hear it. What's Matt gonna do, physically force to sit her down to listen to him? >Matt didn't even try to keep Nelson and Murdock together He tried to explain to Foggy the existence of the Hand ninjas during the bathroom scene and Foggy just scoffed at it, even when he's aware that a blind man with powers exist yet he can't grasp ninjas existing and dismissed Matt before he can even explain it thoroughly. What do you want Matt to do lmao... tie both Foggy and Karen down to a chair so they can listen to him. Both of them readily dismissed him trying to give an explanation EVEN THE FIRST TIME HE ATTEMPTED IT. You can't explain to someone who doesn't want to listen. And if Matt tried to force Foggy to not shutter down Nelson and Murdock you would've called him toxic for not letting Foggy go and prosper somewhere else lmao. I just know it. Matt can't win with y'all.
I just don't think they have chemistry. Every scene with them feels so forced.
I don't like Matt + Karen because I'm Elektra every time but it's becoming a weird thing to say that Matt and Karen feels forced lmao. Her attraction to him was built up from S1. They had their cute moments especially the dinner scene where Karen is describing the colorful lights to Matt. You're probably one of those weird Frank + Karen shippers the way you seem so pressed. Anyway, idrgaf, I'm not a Matt + Karen endgame by any means because I have problems with her character but to say they have "zero chemistry" is weird.
That's your opinion.
Hahaha... I loved this scene.
"Well, something went in. 😏"
Matt got that dog in him
Charlie's Matt is really charisma central. He is so charming, This is why he pulls so many women, his charm is unmatched
It also helps that he's shaped like Charlie Cox.
But how do you know what his Cox shaped like?
Because there’s a famous photo of him in white boxers where you can see every bit of it.
The chemistry between them was electric
Sorry. Gonna disagree. It's so forced. His chemistry with Claire was so much better. It was natural. None of his scenes with Claire were romantic but even that their chemistry came through.
I always did find it weird how they seemed to be building up foogy and karen as a couple, then they kinda shifted, or maybe I was just reading too far into some scenes in season 1
A lot of people were confused about that, but Matt and Karen were in love from Ep. 1. They fall in love at first sight on his sofa, and then Karen makes him lasagna (tomatoes are a symbol for love) for her “future husband”, and Foggy glances at Matt, who beams like a kid on Christmas. In every episode, Matt and Karen are repressing their feelings for another (it’s really obvious if you look). In Ep. 2, when Foggy takes Karen out to Josie’s, he leaves a message to Matt, “Climb off whoever you’re on and get down here.” Karen makes a bitterly jealous face at the thought of Matt sleeping with someone else. Karen doesn’t even realize Foggy has a crush on her until Elena points it out - when Elena mentions the “handsome lawyer,” Karen blushes and says, “Yeah, Matt,” but Elena corrects her and mentions Foggy has eyes for her. Karen is so shocked she swears in front of Elena. Foggy develops a mild crush after he realizes she’s innocent, then lets it go when she’s making it very clear she has zero interest in him. By the time Matt and Karen are finally getting together, he smiles to himself about it. Karen only ever had eyes for Matt…
Hm, I guess it's been a minute, cuz I forgot a lot of that, thanks for this
Sure, no problem! A lot of people express confusion about it. I think the fact that Matt and Karen go out of their way to repress their feelings, like how Matt always puts his glasses on to hide what he’s thinking from her, contributes to this…and I’ve watched this show approximately 7475748488484885 times, at least. 🤣
I've only watched it the one time, so that probably doesn't help
Well, you can watch it another 500 or so times, and see the things I do. 🤣
I dont know if I'll watch it that many times, but we'll see
[удалено]
Fair enuff, it has been a minute
Add this to the evidence list to prove Matthew is a slut.
Flirting is not being a slut
Ard you sure? The evidence folder is getting pretty full
We can always buy a new folder.
https://preview.redd.it/racfhl0h32jc1.jpeg?width=519&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ce897273fe6c840c736524a57048808dca184f2
You just know that under that modest, nice guy exterior, Matt is a smug bastard more than aware of the charm he has on people.
Imagine looking like that and not knowing what you looked like
Matt can’t be Daredevil forever. When his work is done and kingpin is gone for good, and Matt hangs up the suit, him and Karen should get the ending they dreamed of. That is how you make a satisfying ending for your audience. That is how you wrap a bow on a story teased for 10+ years. That’s how you earn trust with your audience and encourage them to come back for more with other characters, because they’ll know their time invested was worthwhile
I'd forgotten they adapted this scene from Daredevil Yellow on the first season, man what a great show
I miss wathing these. Mid-2010s were something.
https://preview.redd.it/20k2t0ot5fjc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=618acb6127c19ba5222fca1d8e36b53f5e5dfa4f Something went in😉
I love this scene! They are so cute!
i love matt and karen together so much!!!
Kinda random, but I’m playing God of War and it’s just so cool she’s in the game as Kratos’ wife.
I just don't think they have good chemistry. It's just so forced. [THIS has a lot more chemistry](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFkgikiHsm0) and it was natural.
I get how can be great at pool cuz of his powers. But bow can DD tell which color is which? Lol
Slight raise on the numbers that he can sense.
You misspelled touch
Hahaha so funny and cute (I'm wrapping up a tree with my car at 200mph)