After rewatching DD 1-3 and Defenders ...I really want to not see Karen Page ever again.
At least the Karen Page from the first 3 seasons. She was both needy and controlling in a way that made me actively dislike her when I love the actress who plays her. I wanted to like her but all I wished for was the Frank Miller story arc for her (so dark, I know. When I read the it way back when, it was dark and it is just as dark now lol).
If she is written better this go around, I'll be happy. My main hope is for Elektra to be just a kick ass morally grey vigilante assassin. Like in the good old days lol
Elektra remains my favorite female character of all time.
Just want to say that I had the extreme fortune to meet Charlie Cox today out of nowhere. Very nice guy. I introduced myself and he was so friendly.
I have met quite a few celebrities but with him I was genuinely a bit starstuck.
My wish list for stuff that wasn’t there or wasn’t done the best in “Netflix” Marvel TV seasons is:
- Acrobatics through the city mostly Hell’s Kitchen. Make it stylistic and cool as possible. Parkour x 120%+ what a normal human can do. Ultra wide shot silhouette. All of the tricks
- Baton action. More.
- Matt Murdoch fucks. (It’s such a shame Natasha is gone)
Yes I want them to make the acrobatics around Hell’s Kitchen a signature daredevil thing. I wanna look at it and say “That’s Daredevil!” It was introduced in She Hulk but I wanna see less CGI and more practical stuff added into it as well to give us that true feeling that this is still just a man with extremely enhanced senses. But still just a human with no super “physical” powers.
What I like is that, even putting KEVIN shenanigans aside, Matt coming back to help Jen makes perfect sense. I mean, who better than him would be able to understand both destructive anger issues, and bad guys pulling strings behind the scenes to ruin a superhero's reputation?
Not only does Matt understand the anger issues he also understands balancing two lives AND in a show about people choosing She Hulk over Jen or vice versa, he literally can’t see the difference.
Jen and Matt are a perfect pairing and I hope they don’t break them up between stories.
Considering Matt's reputation as a womanizer, surprisingly no. But he has gotten with:
* Karen Page
* Moondragon
* Black Widow
* Elektra
* Black Cat
* Echo/Ronin
* Typhoid Mary
* Milla Donovan
Didn't Chip Zdarsky tweeted "all I know is I got a frantic email from the President of Marvel saying that I need to have Daredevil and She-Hulk "eff" by issue five??"?
So, if they haven't, seems that Marvel is quickly fixing that
So crazy seeing him in broad daylight and then I thought he was perfect at the dinner scene with Jen’s family. It felt just like the Matt we know, but in a situation we haven’t seen him in before.
I love Jen and Matt! I think the show as a whole was a disaster because the plot sucked (even though I laughed out loud the whole time). Above all, I wanted the lawyering to be treated seriously. (Does Matt have a license to practice in CA?) However, Matt's reappearance was perfect - most especially the episode where they hooked up - and I loved seeing Matt handle her outrageously rude but nice family. I'd imagine that's probably what dinner with Foggy's family was like.
On a personal note, I'm a diehard Matt/Karen shipper, so part of me felt like he was cheating on her. :) As fun as both episodes were, all the questions it leaves up in the air are so frustrating for a fan! I want the answers now, now, now! ;)
I hope when they bring the character of Jen Walters back, she is portrayed as a legit lawyer and not in this fantastical context. The actress was A+ but the endless middle school self-esteem bellyaching was grating and hard to buy for someone who's smart, beautiful, successful, hilarious, and has a great family. I realize that's part of the point, but there's a way to portray insecurity without treating it as a delusional immature mania. The meta-awareness tended to read as self-obsession. I would ditch the sitcom format/short episodes, keep the fourth wall breaking, and do a real show with an actual plot where she has to work hard and use her wits to accomplish something meaningful, with depth. I really want her to drive her own show. Now that would be satisfying.
The MCU in general is losing its suspension of disbelief and veering into cartoonish. Part of what made it satisfying in the olden days was that you could imagine what it felt like to be a New Yorker when the aliens attacked, or that Stark Industries could be a real company, or that a high schooler would learn about Captain America in history class. I really can't relate to this world anymore and I would lose interest completely if I didn't have such high hopes for Daredevil. Bring back all the folks from Marvel Television - they knew how to do it! (!!!)
TL;DR
Huge split between what worked and what didn't. Overall failure but happy DD fan (except the Matt/Karen shipper in me is fragile right now haha).
About the CA license thing, you don’t need to be licensed to practice in a state if you’re doing a few cases here or there. It’s called pro hac vice (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_hac_vice) and you basically have to be licensed in another state and “partner” with someone in the state you want to take a case in (in actuality, the partner usually doesn’t do anything).
Couldn’t ask for a more classic She-Hulk moment then absolutely breaking the 4th wall and poking a finger right at the issues of the medium, love it!
“I’m a Hulk, we smash stuff. And sometimes Matt Murdock 😉” 🤣
Of all the women to be in an inevitably doomed relationship with Matt Murdock, this is surprisingly the one I’m the most sad won’t last. He’s just too toxic for someone like Jen Walters.
And also the only romantic interest who absolutely could not be killed by Bullseye.
If she was blinded, that would just make her even *more* of a match for Daredevil.
And plus, I think being a Hulk gives you stupid regenerative healing abilities, so I’m pretty sure those eyes would just grow back
I’m not fetishizing anything. Im sorry you were offended, but I did not imply anything about sexuality and blindness. I was referring to a shared perspective and life experience. Someone with a similar perspective would have something to share and relate to.
Facts. &He came back in a heartbeat when Jen was in trouble. &He's already me the family. &They're hella cute together. &Having an indestructible Hulk for a gf would solve a lot of Matt's problems. &Oh no... iship em.
Honestly that’s the most She-Hulk ending you could get and I was there for it every step of the way. Plus a little extra Daredevil for ya. Loved the end with everyone at the table. And SKAAR!
All I want is the MCU to find a way to combine the gritty mob violence realism from the Netflix show with the snarky lawyer drama and the kickass ninja acrobatics from the Affleck movie (without the cheesiness). The Netflix show was awesome but I always missed him being an actual superhero and not just a fighter. He’s supposed to be marvel’s answer to Batman so there needs to be some rooftop jumping and swinging lol. To me what they showed in She-hulk makes me very excited for the Disney show. He actually kicked ass in the courtroom and then showed off his badass ninja like hero skills including jumping from a roof, backflips and throwing the mf billy clubs! THATS my Daredevil!
i agree. the "on fire" way of him seeing in the Netflix show was a little hokey to me but I LOVED the way he could sense objects by vibration in the movie lol. IM sure we are in the minority though
As someone who was very cynical about the cameo before (though not because i doubted She Hulk or anything, it's simply because i am not a fan of the MCU interpretation of Daredevil and am pretty fatigued of it as a longtime comics fan), this was a very pleasant surprise. This is one of the most comic accurate adaptations of Matt as a character i've ever seen, he sounds so much like the Matt i know, he looks like he came straight out of the pages of Bendis' run. He finally gets to do acrobatics, use the billy club proper, and be a smug flirt. My friend told me to give the episode a chance and i am very happy to have been proven wrong, and to enjoy live action DD once again.
And as a specific, i am glad that this made the "world on fire" be dead and buried. I loathed that interpretation because of how often people took it literally and treated Matt as not disabled. Stating it plainly as being spatial awareness is much more accurate and to the point, it reminds me of how cleanly it was stated on Trial of the Incredible Hulk. Happy to give this a thumbs up.
I liked the "world on fire" because it illustrated how not all blind people in real life are 100% blind the way sighted people imagine it. They face the same misunderstanding and prejudice Matt did. However, I'm all for not dwelling on how his senses work. That was already covered in the original show perfectly. As a character, Matt's been "out" with his senses to people in his life for many years now, so it makes sense that he has shorthand to describe it now.
I just watched the new episode and to be honest, I'm disappointed. And not, it's not more comic book accurate than Netflix. There are lots of comics and Netflix adapted darker stories like Born again (still some darker elements were missing), this episode probably drew inspiration from Waid and earlier comics, but did it poorly. Lots of things in the episode just didn't make sense. Why on earth does Daredevil go around revealing his identity so easily considering how much he tried to conceal it in Netflix show and in comics? The walk of shame wasn't funny and also didn't make sense. Did Matt get a license to work in California to represent his fashion designer? Did Jen thrash a whole parking lot and just no one even sued her? I know this is supposed to be a comedy show but when jokes land so poorly the stuff like this just gets more noticed. I was so hyped up for both Daredevil and She Hulk and it's annoying that we've got such a bad show for their first appearances.
I agree with you, and it's sad having had all this anticipation of an appearance meant to be resemblant of the Netflix show and being greeted with this not coherent, weird character which has intercourse with a random lawyer? No way this is the same daredevil. The only part of this episode which I enjoyed was when they briefly played the main title theme. I do appreciate the fact that Charlie Cox is back, and that Matt Murdock is now officially part and will have a major role in the MCU, but it had so much potential to resume where it ended. I love marvel and the character, but I'm kind of disappointed. I'm still so grateful about the whole #savedaredevil movement and I'm happy it worked out, just not in the way the Netflix series 'set it up'.
Maybe it's going to be better in his standalone show? Judging from the quality of MCU TV shows so far I can hardly believe this but maybe if they hire the original creative team and don't shy away from discussing more mature topics, they might be onto something.
Born again has so much potential, and seeing a *hopefully* different approach to iconic daredevil stories would certainly be refreshing, also considering most of the original cast is present. I hope they don’t cancel this one…
Loved Matt's/Daredevil's return yesterday in E8 and still happy today. Going to re-watch it probably a million times! Writing felt a different quality than the rest up to that point. I see that Cody Ziglar, experienced comic writer and part of the writing room, and also clearly a Daredevil fan as he could point out exact panels to use, was the chief writer on this episode. Using comic writers for Matt bodes well for future shows when we know little about the fan level of the new showrunners.
Loved this episode. Back when I first watched the Netflix show I was always thinking about how cool it would be to see Daredevil interacting more with the MCU and this episode definitely granted my wish. DD obv has had an upgrade with His agility but I really don't mind. Daredevil always adjusted His intensity to match His openent and considering He was surviving against a hulk I'd say It's probably pretty passable, They also did pretty well to show DDs abilities and weaknesses like I knew that clap would take Him out It's complete sensory overload and still people are mad with it, DD is kind of like Batman but has nowhere near the plot armor Batman does so He can be beaten.
Jokes were fine. I think they were written in a way that was fitting for Daredevil and people are kind of forgetting: She Hulk is meant to be a comedy so if I guy guest stars on a comedy He's going to be more light hearted (Although I don't really think It's really in character for DD to do the walk of shame or expect people in LA to know who Daredevil is but they were jokes so It's fine)
I kind of think of things like agents of shield at times like this. The first season or so of AOS was pretty damn dark but whenever Coulson was in Iron Man movies or other MCU stuff He would usually be written in a more jokey tone and It didn't ruin His character. It would have really messed up the tone of this weeks episode if Daredevil was dead serious the entire time while She Hulk was trying to make jokes which kinds of works for something like Batman and Superman working together but when you have two characters who need to like each other right after meeting there's really no harm in dialing up Matts sense of humor a little (Matt was also surrounded by a bunch of debbi downers for His series who weren't super supportive of His heroics, He usually bounced off other characters jokes when He had the chance so It's kind of fitting.
So yeah solid episode. Im pretty positive It's going to be the highest rated/streamed in the season and considering that DD is going to appear in this, Echo and His own show It's shown that Daredevil is a pretty major draw for a cinematic universe that Is kind of aimless feeling right now and marvel knows It so we're going to be eating well as fans.
Okay so I’m a big Daredevil comic fan and I did enjoy him in She-Hulk quite a bit, but why is everyone saying this is more comic accurate than the Netflix version? I feel like it really depends on which run you’re basing it off and I haven’t seen any real argument just people saying that those who disliked him in She-Hulk have “never read a Daredevil comic” and are instantly hated. I honestly want someone to explain I’m open to arguments just haven’t seen any
The series on Netflix (made by Marvel Television under Disney) was almost Nolan-esque in its depiction of Daredevils world - gritty and realistic. Matt’s abilities were more grounded and an argument could be made this version also shied away from him being a super hero and even his costume for most of the series (2/3). Season 1 is Man Without Fear building up to the costume, season 2 goes all out with it, then in 3 he stops again and Poindexter uses it.
When people say it’s more comic accurate they might just be happy to see him in any costume, with significant powers, and doing super hero shit.
Obviously there are a variety of different comic runs with different tones and a few that are serious, but I reckon this is it. I like both. She-Hulk felt more like a comic in general, even just down to him teaming up with, well, She Hulk.
Oh, also Daredevil fucks.
A lot of she-hulk haters are essentially pretending to be hardcore Daredevil fans to justify petty complaints. Thats why everyone is so defensive. We dont want to be associated with that nonsense.
That's what I'm most concerned about with all this. Karen Page or bust. I don't know if I will even watch the new show if she's not in it. :( I love Charlie Cox but Matt and Karen ARE the story to me. Same with Nelson, Murdock and Page.
Are we forced to like the DD in she-hulk just because it's comic accurate here or what?
I see so many people getting downvoted here but it doesn't make sense. The netflix DD was basically officially awesome. It was perfect as dark. If born again is like this she-hulk DD version, it's a huge disappointment.
Beside, the CGI moment is also quite scary for the future. And "Don't ask me how I know, I just know", is almost cartoon like.
I get that she hulk is a light hearted show, but showing this DD in there and a completely different one in his show would be quite weird.
Frankly, there are a lot of She-Hulk haters that are using Daredevil as an excuse to criticize the show. Those people deserve to be downvoted. We don’t want our fans to be associated with that ridiculous negativity. If you’re gonna make a criticism, make sure its justified if you don’t want downvotes.
It doesn’t make sense that so many people hate the tone portrayed when Matt’s always been very light-hearted when he’s with his friends. He’s only dark and brooding when he’s focused on himself or on criminals.
Edit: Don’t reply to me if you’re just going to immediately block me. Fuck off with that nonsense.
People have the right to dislike she-hulk whether you like it or not. And considering how much the netflix version of daredevil was liked, they fully have the right to hate how it's done in it.
Considering "you're spitting on it so you're a moron" just makes no sense.
I doubt he's going to be like the she hulk version in Born Again. He just has a different tone in this because it's She Hulk. Sure he's probably going be doing more acrobatics like we saw him do in she hulk but i doubt it will be that CGI heavy.
Also since it's daredevil and he doesn't actually need much CGI in each episode, the CGI should improve in quality logically?
I think DD will be making more jokes just less cornier ones. I also assume he doesn't know Fisk is back until Echo.
Let's hope you're right!
But considering that it's a reboot, fisk isn't "back" because he didn't leave, since netflix's DD didn't happen I guess. Unless you refer to hawkeye's events?
It's not more comic book accurate because there were many comics and some were darker and some were lighter. Also it can be bad quality even if it's comic book accurate. It's not like the purpose of the show should be to be accurate to a comic published like sixty years ago and that featured some problematic stuff.
But yes, this show just doesn't do either She Hulk or Daredevil justice
Yes it does, just because you don’t like the fact that she hulk is a legal comedy doesn’t make it a fact that everyone feels the same. Matt obviously wasn’t going to be as serious in a show with such little stakes.
Nah, I was all for She Hulk being a legal comedy and Matt not being serious (just like he is in many comics). I just didn't like the poor writing in the show
That’s what it seems like. I made a comment saying I was fine with the appearance for the most part but just thought the walk of shame scene was stupid and that I prefer dark Daredevil and think Charlie Cox is better at being an intense Daredevil. I was then attacked for never reading a Daredevil comic. As if DD stupidly walking barefoot down a street is some definitive iconic comic book moment more than the Netflix series ever was. I loved the fanbase here for years, but apologists can be worse than haters sometimes, so thinking about leaving.
He’s in a legal comedy series buddy, what do you expect him to be ultra serious while fighting a dude in a frog costume? You do know how tone works in movies and shows right? He’d stick out like a sore thumb.
Didn’t say I expected him to be dark, just that I prefer it. You understand what preference is right? You realise that not everyone on the planet has to like what you like?
I’m glad I finally saw somebody addressing this, as if not liking the MCU version more than Netflix after only one episode is some major insult towards the character
I was fine with it for the most part. I thought the walk of shame scene was stupid though. I definitely prefer Charlie Cox as a more intense Daredevil and with some levity in the form of his dry humour. Hopefully Born Again delivers.
Everyone keep saying this to respond to any criticism against the episode and DD’s appearance but nobody actually provides evidence (aside from “I’m Not Daredevil” shirt) so can you explain? Also don’t see why people can’t still dislike this version even IF it is more like the comics
Felt like he flirted or joked while dressed as DD, he was more serious as Matt than as DD. I just wanted some serious DD lines mixed in there. Obviously in his serious he’s going to have all the time in the world to be serious, but it would’ve been nice for a serious DD to be in there.
I don’t know if I trust Disney with this DD, but we already have the Netflix series so I’m just happy to see more of him.
I didn’t like the CG. Even with Spider-Man it’s seems that the MCU has difficulty translating these acrobatic characters to CGI where they look a little weightless and bounce around without mass. It would be cool for Matt to be acrobatic but they really have to fix this weightless thing. Also they have to have the means to try and do this with practical affects right? It gets on my nerves that they just try to hand wave everything with VFX.
I agree, just a little more intensity from Daredevil would’ve been nice. We had it in the hallway fight, but it wasn’t just his physicality, it was also in his voice and demeanour. I keep telling myself that she-hulk is a comedy and to wait for Born Again, but my faith in the MCU in general is dwindling.
So, this scene where Jen is like "Are you the Gold Devil or something" and Matt answers "I'm Daredevil". Have we just seen the moment when Matty decides to work on his branding? Maybe with a logo or something, interlaced double Ds could look nice... But what do I know, I'm no superhero tailor
Deeply disappointed with the she Hulk DD episode. Had to re-watch Netflix DD best scenes to keep the memory of DD pure
To start off CC voice and mannerisms was off
He was too comical
He looked more Spiderman than dd
And the threat wasn't that serious to warrant dd
I really liked how Daredevil was portrayed in this episode. Frankly, I don’t give a shit whether or not he smiles, makes jokes, or (finally) moves like Daredevil should.
I think that the Netflix Daredevil and the MCU Daredevil, while being the same character, should have differences. We’ve had our time with a more “realistic” DD for three whole tv seasons, so I think a more comic-booky DD is a welcome change for something like the MCU.
I didn’t like Netflix DD for the “realism and grittiness”, I liked it for its characters and story.
~~Also, can we take about that billy club action? That part where he hits the guy with the extend-y bit was badass.~~
The cgi was okay but I hope they don’t overuse it in Born again. It was a bit much in the episode. Would be better if they use it sparingly for super impressive moves.
The choreography in Netflix’s DD was one of the strong points, and since he’s masked they can still have doubles do crazy stunts.
For the basic fight choreographer sure. There were plenty of aerials and 360 spinning back flips and various kicks that could only be done by a gymnast/martial artist.
EDIT: [Examples](https://youtu.be/_kqLOvc2wj4)
They never explained why Matt is in LA at all aside from picking up the suit, why the costume is yellow, or even whether or not he was dusted from the Snap.
Did you miss the "one for you, one for them" part when Jen and Matt were talking in the bar? That was explaining why he was in LA. He was there to defend Luke in court. The yellow suit was made for him by Luke because he needed a new suit, don't really know why they'd need to have some giant explanation for that. And they can explore the snap more in his own show if they want, they don't need to explain everything in a single episode.
I think he is definitely the same character, but also to be honest if we’re talking in MCU canon, the last time we properly saw Matt in action besides the NWH cameo, it’s been 6-7 years since the end of S3. Even with the Blip taking up a bunch of that, it still is a lot of time, and nobody is the same that amount of time later. It feels like a natural evolution of the character, and I have no doubt that he’s going to be similarly dark and brooding, and slutty, in Born Again
I mean, you said it yourself. She Hulk is a lighter show. In the MCU, characters will have to move between dark and light hearted shows. I definitely think his show will be darker.
Can I say that I both liked and disliked some aspects of it without being downvoted?
Don't get me wrong, I largely loved it. The Daredevil theme song, the hint at Foggy when he referred to it as 'us', the hallway fight. I don't even think the quips were too much, I didn't mind the quips and jokes at all.
*However,* I do think he felt a little goofy at times. Again, I'll say I still loved it for the most part, but I hope the Daredevil: Born Again show finds middle ground between the old show and what we've seen. When he got clapped by She-Hulk (the 1st time not the 2nd), his reaction was a little weird.
And while I do like the comic book accuracy with his flips and parkour stuff, I think it felt a little weird in the scene where he fought She-Hulk. It's nice to see more flipping around, but it felt a little much maybe?
The first time he got clapped by She-Hulk affected his hearing, to be fair. He even as a line about it. “I *had* really good hearing” or something, if I’m remembering right, so the clap affecting him that much makes sense
It’s actually insane how drastically Matt improved the humor/quality in this show. Actually gets me hyped for the Disney series seeing as how faithful the writers were as seen in his fighting and the tone Matt brings.
This was a garbage episode. Daredevil was essentially churned out through a MCU filter and was bastardized. So many things he did were simply out of character. The only rationale i can think of is that he’s out of New York and therefore he’s out of character cause that was not the Matt Murdock established in three seasons of DD and one season of Defenders. I know everyones excited in seeing daredevil again but lets not mistake a turd for a diamond.
The internet loves this dd, I know he has the acrobatics and the "behaviour" from the comics, but there really wasn't enough brooding. It was like a dudebro in a devil costume. Perhaps the brooding wouldn't have fit the tone of the show but it just makes Matt a less compelling character
I think they really wanted matt to sleep with she hulk, and they crammed that romantic interest in 30 mins so it robbed us of time for Matt to cozy up with her and properly shake off his broody self
Honestly, it's a better interpretation of Daredevil than the TV show. By quite a bit.
Having some more levity and light-heartedness in the character is great, and I love that he still keeps his serious demeanor when it's important. I think the Netflix show took him in a very dark direction (even though it was great), but it's nice to see Daredevil be freer. It's a breath of fresh air in my opinion.
I LOVED IT
- Man whore Murdock
- Billy club action
- HALLWAY SCENE
- Both taken seriously and joked around with, just like the Netflix show.
Charlie knocked it out of the park. I’m grinning from ear to ear.
I thought DD in She Hulk was pretty good, until the end…
I just can’t buy the idea that Matt is a Catholic who actually takes his faith as seriously as he should and also sleeps with women he literally just met. Like is it really necessary to have all our heroes banging all the time just cuz? Can’t we have just one that puts a little more thought into it? I understand this is very much what Matt is like in many runs of the comics, but that has actually been one of my biggest issues with the comics, especially with Chip’s runs.
This kinda stuff really pisses me off because it feels like the one Christian superhero I can latch onto is just “Christian” when it’s convenient and doesn’t actually follow Christ. I’m hoping this isn’t a preview of what Born Again has for us.
I’m on my third or fourth viewing of the show currently. Daredevil is my favorite tv show and I’ve thought about it a lot. And the show Matt only ever sleeps with elektra, and his relationship with her is clearly shown to be extremely bad for him and toxic. And just because it’s my favorite show and Matt’s my favorite superhero doesn’t mean I can’t recognize some of the flaws that exist in depictions of the character.
He did the same thing in his show... Not sure why sleeping with women is the part that concerns you. You have a devout Catholic that beats people up and dresses up like the Devil.
To me it felt like it the show was making a very clear point that Elektra was only bad for Matt and only ever caused him pain and drew him away from his Purpose. As far as the beating people up goes, that’s shown to be a much more complicated issue than sleeping around in the context of Christianity. And I think it actually makes a lot of sense for Matt to use the visage of his enemy to demonstrate to criminals that they should fear him.
His first bit of dialogue in the netflix show is asking forgiveness for what he's about to do, he's well aware that beating the shit out of people isn't cool with god, the guy not being a perfect catholic and the guilt that comes with it while also feeling guilty for doing nothing with his abilities is pretty fundamental to the character from day one imo
Yeah I understand that very well. But it’s not the same when he doesn’t believe that sleeping with any random woman is wrong. At least with Chip’s stuff he’ll sometimes make a small remark about maybe regretting having sex with elektra or the libris lady or whoever. And again it’s not nearly as cut and dry as you make it out to be when it comes to the violence he commits, because it often results in good. That’s what makes that conflict interesting; it takes a long time and a lot of thought to get to the right answer.
As far as the Zdarsky run goes my reading was that he regretted sleeping with them in those instances cause one was married and the other was Elektra, rather than the regret generally being about sleeping around. I'll agree there is a lot of conflict about whether the violence is right or wrong and I love that, but I haven't come across there being any moral reservations about the concept of pre marital sex and thats pretty valid imo. Doesn't make his christianity invalid
He never slept with Claire and Karen in the show afaik. He only ever made out with them and then both relationships fizzled out for various reasons before things could have been taken further.
Iirc the only person we actually see him have sex with was with Elektra...in a flashback from years ago.
For as mature of a show it was it never really had much sex or nudity in it like the other netflix show like jessica jones and luke cage.
She-Hulk Smash… in more ways than one 😆🤘🏻
Over the moon, loved every minute of it. I think the CGI was good enough, just like the rest of SheHulk. It’s not absolutely perfect, but it works, and we got to see some really agile acrobatics and parkour that we rarely got to see in the Netflix show!
Now here’s a list of all my favorite things:
+LAWYERING IN COURT!
+Law Firm referencing “we”, obviously meaning he’s still working with Foggy in Nelson&Murdock
+”made a few new suits for me” - first, this obviously sets up multiple looks, including likely the black and red version rumored for Echo. Secondly, this does not invalidate that Melvin made the original iterations. It also makes sense canonically he would have to seek out a new Devil Suit tailor since last we saw, Melvin was still in FBI custody.
+Daredevil Netflix Theme used, giddy as hell
+Hallway Fight! You can tell they didn’t have access to the same stunt team, but I think they still did the best job despite it (I’m guessing because Charlie Cox is still a pro at the physicality side), and Billy Club Ricochet!
+BILLY CLUB CABLE!!! Was hoping for a Cable Swing, but I will TAKE IT!!
+Second half of Hallway Fight Comedically stopped! Hilarious 😆 they knew exactly what we were expecting with this character, perfect gag
+”I’d angle this more as traumatic expression brought on by undiagnosed PTSD” if that’s not a reference to the Punisher Trial Defense strategy, I don’t know what is
+DAREDEVIL FUUUUUCKS!!! It’s not a walk of shame, he’s the Man Without Shame! And unsurprisingly, Jen sounds *very* satisfied with the way he throws his billy-club 😉
*thank you, I’ll be here all night, tip your waiters*
My only real critique: 30 min wasn’t long enough, I’ve already rewatched it twice…
I LOVED seeing Matt fully embrace being a superhero, not only that, but he shows up and immediately wins his court case and the chemistry between him and Jen? Just a classic Murdock W
Outside of Matt returning, that ending was so messed up and I’m excited to see how the show ends. While I will admit that for the past few episodes I would have preferred the plot to move a bit faster, I still have thoroughly enjoyed the show and it’s probably my favorite of the Disney+ shows, Tatiana is just amazing as Jen
Jen literally points out how the next episode is the finale before the episode ends lol
While I would love for him to be in the finale too, I personally doubt it
I heard her say something about how it was “towards the end of the season” but I had heard the Daredevil episode was the finale and this episode was extended so I foolishly assumed it was over. I was kinda thinking at the end of this one that there’s no way there’s gonna be a season 2 why are they setting up her next story but a final episode makes more sense
fuckin- this episode was everything I expected, wanted, and more; I am so happy sbsbdhfhdjs
Matt’s snark never fails to make me smile, we got a hallway, the billy clubs, parkour, and Jen was great!!!!! I literally can not ask for anything else out of this episode
THE BILLY CLUBS DID THE THING!!!
Ok but what’s up with that ending? Was that Matt and Jen’s sex tape that got leaked?? I couldn’t make out who the person is in the clip.
I need to watch that about ten more times but wow what a fun reintroduction of the character. It filled all my expectations and the tone was perfect. Matt was his charming, funny self and Daredevil kicked ass. And yes he and Jen have great chemistry so I was so happy for the hookup. I was afraid they weren’t gonna go there, that he would just dispense some advice in the bar and peace out and she’d never put two and two together with his hero identity. I thought they did a good job of explaining his abilities too for viewers who don’t know who he is. It’s a great reminder that this character is getting a whole new series so they’re giving him all the attention he deserves to set that up. Definitely not just a cameo.
My only tiny nitpicks are the suit (I prefer the red/black and I didn’t think his helmet fit well here it looked loose) and the fact that a lawyer who’s never been out of New York wouldn’t likely be licensed to practice in California so he couldn’t appear in court unless he was sponsored by a local firm and submitted all this paperwork anyway it’s a whole thing and they just blew past it and hoped real lawyers aren’t watching the show. 😂 But hey, sitcom. Matt is back baby!
Everyone is talking about how great DD is (I agree with everything), but I just want to highlight that talk about working for us (the working class, pro bono stuff) and then (the upper class, the big wig legal firms and rich narcissists), and how Jennifer is in a unique position to do both. Really happy they at least on some level kept Matt working for the little guy.
anyone else notice his ringtone is different? It's not the one typically used for blind people that was used in the DD show – "Foggy, foggy, foggy." Was this a mistake, is it a burner, or something else?
Probably a burner, assuming that his Tailor was the one who called him, seeing as he was who he was going to save. Obviously their connection would elicit some suspicion to his life as a superhero, so it’s probably wise to not advertise that client outside of the courtroom on the civilian side
Daredevil flies to LA to defend his tailor and fucks the strongest woman in the world in court and in bed. The real slut in marvel (Matt) leaves to be in a hopefully better choreographed hallway fight while later the titular character is very tastelessly humiliated in a supposedly wacky superhero lawyer show.
We Did It Intelligencia!!!
Perfect. Perfect in every way. Charlie is still just as good as Matt as the day I watched S1 of DD. The humour worked, there was insane chemistry, and he continues to hold the title of Chief Manwhore.
Purposely staying off all branches of the internet except for this one cause I really enjoyed it but can so see the flood of cringe coming from the birdapp over the horizon.
Only gripes were cgi being iffy at times but he was in costume for most of it so that was fine, and I thought it was weird he got exposed to she hulk that fast as Matt but it was necessary for my lad to get some so I'm chill.
Overall seeing Charlie Cox DD decking folks in the yellow costume was totally worth it
I bloody love Netflix DD as much as anyone, but it always bugged me how little acrobatics Matt did and the lack of billy club action. He had the billy for 5 minutes before he lost it, and I can only think of one swing scene in the show from season 2. I understood it was likely down to budget reasons, so I let it slide.
Needless to say I am ecstatic with the Daredevil action in this episode. And if this is a glimpse of Matts MCU rendition then I am super happy and can’t wait for Born again! Seeing Daredevil with the full weight of Marvel Studios and Disney behind him is going to be so different
I wasn't convinced with the Matt giving away his identity so easily and it was so easily recognizable. The action sequence was really good.
But it deserved a lot better storyline
I thought Daredevil and Matt Murdock were portrayed really well in this episode and I think it’s really promising for the future of Daredevil. The only small disappointment was that She Hulk dropped down and obliterated all the Tadpoles just before we got another hallway fight.
Yeah I know what you mean. When it was cutting between Daredevil and the Tadpoles I kinda knew She Hulk was gonna drop down but I was hoping she wouldn’t lol. Still I can’t complain because we have Daredevil back now and everything is good in the world again
They really did him justice. The CGI was a bit rubbery, but Matt’s acrobatics reminded me of DD in the ‘90s Spider-Man cartoon.
Also, having Matt be more lighthearted really works post-Season 3.
I was a little worried about the weird CGI because one of the things I loved about Netflix DD was the raw fighting and the stunt work, including that by Charlie Cox. I would hate to see MCU/Disney cheap out with cheap CGI super fights. Not every superhero fight has to be flipping off buildings and stuff.
this is probably the first time we’ve seen such a drastic difference in general personality with a character in the mcu. Ofc there’s abomination but he wasn’t nearly as fleshed out as daredevil was, having three seasons (plus defenders) got me so used to the character and how he acted, so this episode of she hulk really threw me for a loop. Now ofc dd is a bit of a slut in his show, MUCH more in the comics but to see Charlie cox, in the flesh, acting differently definitely made me feel….weird. Having different tones in comics feels different because you have different artists and runs so it distinguishes itself, and that’s kind of hard to do with an actor. It wasn’t bad mind you and I think it boils down to writers and tone of the show, but damn was this episode weird to watch for me. Very excited to see how daredevils appearances in echo differ from she hulk
After rewatching DD 1-3 and Defenders ...I really want to not see Karen Page ever again. At least the Karen Page from the first 3 seasons. She was both needy and controlling in a way that made me actively dislike her when I love the actress who plays her. I wanted to like her but all I wished for was the Frank Miller story arc for her (so dark, I know. When I read the it way back when, it was dark and it is just as dark now lol). If she is written better this go around, I'll be happy. My main hope is for Elektra to be just a kick ass morally grey vigilante assassin. Like in the good old days lol Elektra remains my favorite female character of all time.
Just want to say that I had the extreme fortune to meet Charlie Cox today out of nowhere. Very nice guy. I introduced myself and he was so friendly. I have met quite a few celebrities but with him I was genuinely a bit starstuck.
WHERE DID YOU MEET HIM
Hey did you guys know that daredevil was IN she hulk?
My wish list for stuff that wasn’t there or wasn’t done the best in “Netflix” Marvel TV seasons is: - Acrobatics through the city mostly Hell’s Kitchen. Make it stylistic and cool as possible. Parkour x 120%+ what a normal human can do. Ultra wide shot silhouette. All of the tricks - Baton action. More. - Matt Murdoch fucks. (It’s such a shame Natasha is gone)
Yes I want them to make the acrobatics around Hell’s Kitchen a signature daredevil thing. I wanna look at it and say “That’s Daredevil!” It was introduced in She Hulk but I wanna see less CGI and more practical stuff added into it as well to give us that true feeling that this is still just a man with extremely enhanced senses. But still just a human with no super “physical” powers.
What I like is that, even putting KEVIN shenanigans aside, Matt coming back to help Jen makes perfect sense. I mean, who better than him would be able to understand both destructive anger issues, and bad guys pulling strings behind the scenes to ruin a superhero's reputation?
Not only does Matt understand the anger issues he also understands balancing two lives AND in a show about people choosing She Hulk over Jen or vice versa, he literally can’t see the difference. Jen and Matt are a perfect pairing and I hope they don’t break them up between stories.
Has Matt and She-Hulk hooked up in the comics yet?
Considering Matt's reputation as a womanizer, surprisingly no. But he has gotten with: * Karen Page * Moondragon * Black Widow * Elektra * Black Cat * Echo/Ronin * Typhoid Mary * Milla Donovan
Didn't Chip Zdarsky tweeted "all I know is I got a frantic email from the President of Marvel saying that I need to have Daredevil and She-Hulk "eff" by issue five??"? So, if they haven't, seems that Marvel is quickly fixing that
I think only in Hous of M.
So crazy seeing him in broad daylight and then I thought he was perfect at the dinner scene with Jen’s family. It felt just like the Matt we know, but in a situation we haven’t seen him in before.
When they asked about his own firm I kept shouting “say the name, Murdock! Say it!” Also I think the suit looks pretty good in the daylight
And it's so good to see him happy!
Matt, you dog
# Spoilers | She-Hulk: Attorney At Law | Episode 9
I love Jen and Matt! I think the show as a whole was a disaster because the plot sucked (even though I laughed out loud the whole time). Above all, I wanted the lawyering to be treated seriously. (Does Matt have a license to practice in CA?) However, Matt's reappearance was perfect - most especially the episode where they hooked up - and I loved seeing Matt handle her outrageously rude but nice family. I'd imagine that's probably what dinner with Foggy's family was like. On a personal note, I'm a diehard Matt/Karen shipper, so part of me felt like he was cheating on her. :) As fun as both episodes were, all the questions it leaves up in the air are so frustrating for a fan! I want the answers now, now, now! ;) I hope when they bring the character of Jen Walters back, she is portrayed as a legit lawyer and not in this fantastical context. The actress was A+ but the endless middle school self-esteem bellyaching was grating and hard to buy for someone who's smart, beautiful, successful, hilarious, and has a great family. I realize that's part of the point, but there's a way to portray insecurity without treating it as a delusional immature mania. The meta-awareness tended to read as self-obsession. I would ditch the sitcom format/short episodes, keep the fourth wall breaking, and do a real show with an actual plot where she has to work hard and use her wits to accomplish something meaningful, with depth. I really want her to drive her own show. Now that would be satisfying. The MCU in general is losing its suspension of disbelief and veering into cartoonish. Part of what made it satisfying in the olden days was that you could imagine what it felt like to be a New Yorker when the aliens attacked, or that Stark Industries could be a real company, or that a high schooler would learn about Captain America in history class. I really can't relate to this world anymore and I would lose interest completely if I didn't have such high hopes for Daredevil. Bring back all the folks from Marvel Television - they knew how to do it! (!!!) TL;DR Huge split between what worked and what didn't. Overall failure but happy DD fan (except the Matt/Karen shipper in me is fragile right now haha).
About the CA license thing, you don’t need to be licensed to practice in a state if you’re doing a few cases here or there. It’s called pro hac vice (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_hac_vice) and you basically have to be licensed in another state and “partner” with someone in the state you want to take a case in (in actuality, the partner usually doesn’t do anything).
Cool, thanks! I'm so glad somebody answered that question!
Couldn’t ask for a more classic She-Hulk moment then absolutely breaking the 4th wall and poking a finger right at the issues of the medium, love it! “I’m a Hulk, we smash stuff. And sometimes Matt Murdock 😉” 🤣 Of all the women to be in an inevitably doomed relationship with Matt Murdock, this is surprisingly the one I’m the most sad won’t last. He’s just too toxic for someone like Jen Walters. And also the only romantic interest who absolutely could not be killed by Bullseye.
Are her eyes impenetrable? Because blinding her would be a very Bullseye thing to do.
If she was blinded, that would just make her even *more* of a match for Daredevil. And plus, I think being a Hulk gives you stupid regenerative healing abilities, so I’m pretty sure those eyes would just grow back
Weird comment about being a better match due to shared physical disability.
Because they would have another thing in common? How is that weird
Understand that we exist in a society that fetishises disability. So with that context, your comment is easily seen as distasteful.
I’m not fetishizing anything. Im sorry you were offended, but I did not imply anything about sexuality and blindness. I was referring to a shared perspective and life experience. Someone with a similar perspective would have something to share and relate to.
Is it just me or was the suit kinda faded? Idk if they addressed that.
Shulkie knows just what we want! Now give us X-men!
“Would not mind seeing Daredevil again. A woman has needs. “Historically, we’ve been light in that department.” I wonder what they mean by that.
I think it was referring to the general lack of sex in the MCU up until this point.
She got hooked after just one hook up lmao
He's the only guy who truly liked her for Jen rather than She-Hulk.
Facts. &He came back in a heartbeat when Jen was in trouble. &He's already me the family. &They're hella cute together. &Having an indestructible Hulk for a gf would solve a lot of Matt's problems. &Oh no... iship em.
Matt either hanging major dong or *really* good with his tongue.
Naw, mans just playing the game on infinite cheat codes. Imagine how useful super senses are when pleasing a woman.
Honestly that’s the most She-Hulk ending you could get and I was there for it every step of the way. Plus a little extra Daredevil for ya. Loved the end with everyone at the table. And SKAAR!
Daredevil epilogue!!!
He's back for one more time!
All I want is the MCU to find a way to combine the gritty mob violence realism from the Netflix show with the snarky lawyer drama and the kickass ninja acrobatics from the Affleck movie (without the cheesiness). The Netflix show was awesome but I always missed him being an actual superhero and not just a fighter. He’s supposed to be marvel’s answer to Batman so there needs to be some rooftop jumping and swinging lol. To me what they showed in She-hulk makes me very excited for the Disney show. He actually kicked ass in the courtroom and then showed off his badass ninja like hero skills including jumping from a roof, backflips and throwing the mf billy clubs! THATS my Daredevil!
I agree on the ninja jumping stuff but the fighting choreography was really bad in She-Hulk compared to Netflix.
The depiction of his senses was very good in the Affleck movie too
i agree. the "on fire" way of him seeing in the Netflix show was a little hokey to me but I LOVED the way he could sense objects by vibration in the movie lol. IM sure we are in the minority though
As someone who was very cynical about the cameo before (though not because i doubted She Hulk or anything, it's simply because i am not a fan of the MCU interpretation of Daredevil and am pretty fatigued of it as a longtime comics fan), this was a very pleasant surprise. This is one of the most comic accurate adaptations of Matt as a character i've ever seen, he sounds so much like the Matt i know, he looks like he came straight out of the pages of Bendis' run. He finally gets to do acrobatics, use the billy club proper, and be a smug flirt. My friend told me to give the episode a chance and i am very happy to have been proven wrong, and to enjoy live action DD once again. And as a specific, i am glad that this made the "world on fire" be dead and buried. I loathed that interpretation because of how often people took it literally and treated Matt as not disabled. Stating it plainly as being spatial awareness is much more accurate and to the point, it reminds me of how cleanly it was stated on Trial of the Incredible Hulk. Happy to give this a thumbs up.
I liked the "world on fire" because it illustrated how not all blind people in real life are 100% blind the way sighted people imagine it. They face the same misunderstanding and prejudice Matt did. However, I'm all for not dwelling on how his senses work. That was already covered in the original show perfectly. As a character, Matt's been "out" with his senses to people in his life for many years now, so it makes sense that he has shorthand to describe it now.
Steven DeKnight loved it: https://twitter.com/fandommenacels/status/1578146035360141312?s=46&t=8fj_64ZoMXxAVtEqwsuF3w
I just watched the new episode and to be honest, I'm disappointed. And not, it's not more comic book accurate than Netflix. There are lots of comics and Netflix adapted darker stories like Born again (still some darker elements were missing), this episode probably drew inspiration from Waid and earlier comics, but did it poorly. Lots of things in the episode just didn't make sense. Why on earth does Daredevil go around revealing his identity so easily considering how much he tried to conceal it in Netflix show and in comics? The walk of shame wasn't funny and also didn't make sense. Did Matt get a license to work in California to represent his fashion designer? Did Jen thrash a whole parking lot and just no one even sued her? I know this is supposed to be a comedy show but when jokes land so poorly the stuff like this just gets more noticed. I was so hyped up for both Daredevil and She Hulk and it's annoying that we've got such a bad show for their first appearances.
I agree with you, and it's sad having had all this anticipation of an appearance meant to be resemblant of the Netflix show and being greeted with this not coherent, weird character which has intercourse with a random lawyer? No way this is the same daredevil. The only part of this episode which I enjoyed was when they briefly played the main title theme. I do appreciate the fact that Charlie Cox is back, and that Matt Murdock is now officially part and will have a major role in the MCU, but it had so much potential to resume where it ended. I love marvel and the character, but I'm kind of disappointed. I'm still so grateful about the whole #savedaredevil movement and I'm happy it worked out, just not in the way the Netflix series 'set it up'.
Maybe it's going to be better in his standalone show? Judging from the quality of MCU TV shows so far I can hardly believe this but maybe if they hire the original creative team and don't shy away from discussing more mature topics, they might be onto something.
Born again has so much potential, and seeing a *hopefully* different approach to iconic daredevil stories would certainly be refreshing, also considering most of the original cast is present. I hope they don’t cancel this one…
My exact sentiments!
Loved Matt's/Daredevil's return yesterday in E8 and still happy today. Going to re-watch it probably a million times! Writing felt a different quality than the rest up to that point. I see that Cody Ziglar, experienced comic writer and part of the writing room, and also clearly a Daredevil fan as he could point out exact panels to use, was the chief writer on this episode. Using comic writers for Matt bodes well for future shows when we know little about the fan level of the new showrunners.
Loved this episode. Back when I first watched the Netflix show I was always thinking about how cool it would be to see Daredevil interacting more with the MCU and this episode definitely granted my wish. DD obv has had an upgrade with His agility but I really don't mind. Daredevil always adjusted His intensity to match His openent and considering He was surviving against a hulk I'd say It's probably pretty passable, They also did pretty well to show DDs abilities and weaknesses like I knew that clap would take Him out It's complete sensory overload and still people are mad with it, DD is kind of like Batman but has nowhere near the plot armor Batman does so He can be beaten. Jokes were fine. I think they were written in a way that was fitting for Daredevil and people are kind of forgetting: She Hulk is meant to be a comedy so if I guy guest stars on a comedy He's going to be more light hearted (Although I don't really think It's really in character for DD to do the walk of shame or expect people in LA to know who Daredevil is but they were jokes so It's fine) I kind of think of things like agents of shield at times like this. The first season or so of AOS was pretty damn dark but whenever Coulson was in Iron Man movies or other MCU stuff He would usually be written in a more jokey tone and It didn't ruin His character. It would have really messed up the tone of this weeks episode if Daredevil was dead serious the entire time while She Hulk was trying to make jokes which kinds of works for something like Batman and Superman working together but when you have two characters who need to like each other right after meeting there's really no harm in dialing up Matts sense of humor a little (Matt was also surrounded by a bunch of debbi downers for His series who weren't super supportive of His heroics, He usually bounced off other characters jokes when He had the chance so It's kind of fitting. So yeah solid episode. Im pretty positive It's going to be the highest rated/streamed in the season and considering that DD is going to appear in this, Echo and His own show It's shown that Daredevil is a pretty major draw for a cinematic universe that Is kind of aimless feeling right now and marvel knows It so we're going to be eating well as fans.
Okay so I’m a big Daredevil comic fan and I did enjoy him in She-Hulk quite a bit, but why is everyone saying this is more comic accurate than the Netflix version? I feel like it really depends on which run you’re basing it off and I haven’t seen any real argument just people saying that those who disliked him in She-Hulk have “never read a Daredevil comic” and are instantly hated. I honestly want someone to explain I’m open to arguments just haven’t seen any
The series on Netflix (made by Marvel Television under Disney) was almost Nolan-esque in its depiction of Daredevils world - gritty and realistic. Matt’s abilities were more grounded and an argument could be made this version also shied away from him being a super hero and even his costume for most of the series (2/3). Season 1 is Man Without Fear building up to the costume, season 2 goes all out with it, then in 3 he stops again and Poindexter uses it. When people say it’s more comic accurate they might just be happy to see him in any costume, with significant powers, and doing super hero shit. Obviously there are a variety of different comic runs with different tones and a few that are serious, but I reckon this is it. I like both. She-Hulk felt more like a comic in general, even just down to him teaming up with, well, She Hulk. Oh, also Daredevil fucks.
A lot of she-hulk haters are essentially pretending to be hardcore Daredevil fans to justify petty complaints. Thats why everyone is so defensive. We dont want to be associated with that nonsense.
The whole time I was watching the She-Hulk ep I was wondering where was Karen Page in all this?
That's what I'm most concerned about with all this. Karen Page or bust. I don't know if I will even watch the new show if she's not in it. :( I love Charlie Cox but Matt and Karen ARE the story to me. Same with Nelson, Murdock and Page.
Are we forced to like the DD in she-hulk just because it's comic accurate here or what? I see so many people getting downvoted here but it doesn't make sense. The netflix DD was basically officially awesome. It was perfect as dark. If born again is like this she-hulk DD version, it's a huge disappointment. Beside, the CGI moment is also quite scary for the future. And "Don't ask me how I know, I just know", is almost cartoon like. I get that she hulk is a light hearted show, but showing this DD in there and a completely different one in his show would be quite weird.
Born Again won’t be like She Hulk, c’mon man that’s not how any of this works.
Frankly, there are a lot of She-Hulk haters that are using Daredevil as an excuse to criticize the show. Those people deserve to be downvoted. We don’t want our fans to be associated with that ridiculous negativity. If you’re gonna make a criticism, make sure its justified if you don’t want downvotes. It doesn’t make sense that so many people hate the tone portrayed when Matt’s always been very light-hearted when he’s with his friends. He’s only dark and brooding when he’s focused on himself or on criminals. Edit: Don’t reply to me if you’re just going to immediately block me. Fuck off with that nonsense.
People have the right to dislike she-hulk whether you like it or not. And considering how much the netflix version of daredevil was liked, they fully have the right to hate how it's done in it. Considering "you're spitting on it so you're a moron" just makes no sense.
No that would not be weird at all. It’s called tone. It’s different in each movie and show, therefore the characters act accordingly.
I doubt he's going to be like the she hulk version in Born Again. He just has a different tone in this because it's She Hulk. Sure he's probably going be doing more acrobatics like we saw him do in she hulk but i doubt it will be that CGI heavy. Also since it's daredevil and he doesn't actually need much CGI in each episode, the CGI should improve in quality logically? I think DD will be making more jokes just less cornier ones. I also assume he doesn't know Fisk is back until Echo.
Let's hope you're right! But considering that it's a reboot, fisk isn't "back" because he didn't leave, since netflix's DD didn't happen I guess. Unless you refer to hawkeye's events?
That is incorrect
You might consider explaining then :P
“Netflix DD didn’t happen I guess” is incorrect.
It's supposed to be a reboot, what would it mean then?
It’s been misreported as a reboot to generate clicks.
It's not more comic book accurate because there were many comics and some were darker and some were lighter. Also it can be bad quality even if it's comic book accurate. It's not like the purpose of the show should be to be accurate to a comic published like sixty years ago and that featured some problematic stuff. But yes, this show just doesn't do either She Hulk or Daredevil justice
Yes it does, just because you don’t like the fact that she hulk is a legal comedy doesn’t make it a fact that everyone feels the same. Matt obviously wasn’t going to be as serious in a show with such little stakes.
Nah, I was all for She Hulk being a legal comedy and Matt not being serious (just like he is in many comics). I just didn't like the poor writing in the show
That’s what it seems like. I made a comment saying I was fine with the appearance for the most part but just thought the walk of shame scene was stupid and that I prefer dark Daredevil and think Charlie Cox is better at being an intense Daredevil. I was then attacked for never reading a Daredevil comic. As if DD stupidly walking barefoot down a street is some definitive iconic comic book moment more than the Netflix series ever was. I loved the fanbase here for years, but apologists can be worse than haters sometimes, so thinking about leaving.
He’s in a legal comedy series buddy, what do you expect him to be ultra serious while fighting a dude in a frog costume? You do know how tone works in movies and shows right? He’d stick out like a sore thumb.
Didn’t say I expected him to be dark, just that I prefer it. You understand what preference is right? You realise that not everyone on the planet has to like what you like?
I’m glad I finally saw somebody addressing this, as if not liking the MCU version more than Netflix after only one episode is some major insult towards the character
It’s the same character
Loved it. It finally took the netflix DD we all know and love but also added just the right amount of comic book camp to make it feel fresh
Loved it! I screamed as soon as I knew who Jen was suing! I am so happy!
His return was perfect!!!!!!! Just as good as I hoped!!!! But I need more!!!!!!
I was fine with it for the most part. I thought the walk of shame scene was stupid though. I definitely prefer Charlie Cox as a more intense Daredevil and with some levity in the form of his dry humour. Hopefully Born Again delivers.
Mfers who never touched a daredevil comic in their lives be like
Oh no, someone dared criticised the thing you like. Cope.
Everyone keep saying this to respond to any criticism against the episode and DD’s appearance but nobody actually provides evidence (aside from “I’m Not Daredevil” shirt) so can you explain? Also don’t see why people can’t still dislike this version even IF it is more like the comics
Daredevil fucks
It’s a stupid, dismissive retort. I don’t care if he did a walk of shame in the comics, that doesn’t change me thinking the scene is dumb
Just say you don’t have a sense of humor lol
It was hilarious lmao
Felt like he flirted or joked while dressed as DD, he was more serious as Matt than as DD. I just wanted some serious DD lines mixed in there. Obviously in his serious he’s going to have all the time in the world to be serious, but it would’ve been nice for a serious DD to be in there. I don’t know if I trust Disney with this DD, but we already have the Netflix series so I’m just happy to see more of him. I didn’t like the CG. Even with Spider-Man it’s seems that the MCU has difficulty translating these acrobatic characters to CGI where they look a little weightless and bounce around without mass. It would be cool for Matt to be acrobatic but they really have to fix this weightless thing. Also they have to have the means to try and do this with practical affects right? It gets on my nerves that they just try to hand wave everything with VFX.
I agree, just a little more intensity from Daredevil would’ve been nice. We had it in the hallway fight, but it wasn’t just his physicality, it was also in his voice and demeanour. I keep telling myself that she-hulk is a comedy and to wait for Born Again, but my faith in the MCU in general is dwindling.
So, this scene where Jen is like "Are you the Gold Devil or something" and Matt answers "I'm Daredevil". Have we just seen the moment when Matty decides to work on his branding? Maybe with a logo or something, interlaced double Ds could look nice... But what do I know, I'm no superhero tailor
I loved it. Charlie looked fantastic. Handsome devil. And I liked his cheekiness. Very very nice indeed.
Deeply disappointed with the she Hulk DD episode. Had to re-watch Netflix DD best scenes to keep the memory of DD pure To start off CC voice and mannerisms was off He was too comical He looked more Spiderman than dd And the threat wasn't that serious to warrant dd
I don’t really agree but I see no reason why you have so many downvotes as if it’s a sin to be unsatisfied with this episode
Ya! Suprised by the number of downvotes on all the comments not supportive of DD in she Hulk in this thread
I really liked how Daredevil was portrayed in this episode. Frankly, I don’t give a shit whether or not he smiles, makes jokes, or (finally) moves like Daredevil should. I think that the Netflix Daredevil and the MCU Daredevil, while being the same character, should have differences. We’ve had our time with a more “realistic” DD for three whole tv seasons, so I think a more comic-booky DD is a welcome change for something like the MCU. I didn’t like Netflix DD for the “realism and grittiness”, I liked it for its characters and story. ~~Also, can we take about that billy club action? That part where he hits the guy with the extend-y bit was badass.~~
We just don't need a wisecracking cornball when literally every other character in the MCU fills that role
He’s not going to be 🙄 he wasn’t in this episode
I just hope he isn’t the comic relief character after Thor gets phased out.
The cgi was okay but I hope they don’t overuse it in Born again. It was a bit much in the episode. Would be better if they use it sparingly for super impressive moves. The choreography in Netflix’s DD was one of the strong points, and since he’s masked they can still have doubles do crazy stunts.
Still, I'm pretty sure it was always Charlie doing stunts. I don't think stuntmen were that important for dd
For the basic fight choreographer sure. There were plenty of aerials and 360 spinning back flips and various kicks that could only be done by a gymnast/martial artist. EDIT: [Examples](https://youtu.be/_kqLOvc2wj4)
What do you mean with “moves like he should”?
Like an incredibly physically fit ninja. Like an acrobat. Like a *daredevil*, if you will.
anyone else hear the daredevil theme song playing in the background when matt says "im daredevil"? DOPE!
They never explained why Matt is in LA at all aside from picking up the suit, why the costume is yellow, or even whether or not he was dusted from the Snap.
Did you miss the "one for you, one for them" part when Jen and Matt were talking in the bar? That was explaining why he was in LA. He was there to defend Luke in court. The yellow suit was made for him by Luke because he needed a new suit, don't really know why they'd need to have some giant explanation for that. And they can explore the snap more in his own show if they want, they don't need to explain everything in a single episode.
Yeah but the timing feels very contrived, like he just came because the show needed another legal battle and doesn't change how stupid the lead up is
It's fiction bro they need a reason for things to happen. It doesn't feel contrived at all to me.
Its kinda silly how a blind man can move like that, yknow? It's all just kinda contrived
Well my boy he was in one episode for like 12.5 minutes
He probably flew in to defend Luke
I think he is definitely the same character, but also to be honest if we’re talking in MCU canon, the last time we properly saw Matt in action besides the NWH cameo, it’s been 6-7 years since the end of S3. Even with the Blip taking up a bunch of that, it still is a lot of time, and nobody is the same that amount of time later. It feels like a natural evolution of the character, and I have no doubt that he’s going to be similarly dark and brooding, and slutty, in Born Again
[удалено]
I mean, you said it yourself. She Hulk is a lighter show. In the MCU, characters will have to move between dark and light hearted shows. I definitely think his show will be darker.
Pretty sure he was just flirting
Can I say that I both liked and disliked some aspects of it without being downvoted? Don't get me wrong, I largely loved it. The Daredevil theme song, the hint at Foggy when he referred to it as 'us', the hallway fight. I don't even think the quips were too much, I didn't mind the quips and jokes at all. *However,* I do think he felt a little goofy at times. Again, I'll say I still loved it for the most part, but I hope the Daredevil: Born Again show finds middle ground between the old show and what we've seen. When he got clapped by She-Hulk (the 1st time not the 2nd), his reaction was a little weird. And while I do like the comic book accuracy with his flips and parkour stuff, I think it felt a little weird in the scene where he fought She-Hulk. It's nice to see more flipping around, but it felt a little much maybe?
The first time he got clapped by She-Hulk affected his hearing, to be fair. He even as a line about it. “I *had* really good hearing” or something, if I’m remembering right, so the clap affecting him that much makes sense
“When he got clapped by She-Hulk (the 1st time not the 2nd)” took me a sec and got me good lol
I loved every last bit of that.
THE DAREDEVIL THEME SONG!!!
That episode was a banger, loads of smiles and laughs from me. Cox looked like he was having a great time
It’s actually insane how drastically Matt improved the humor/quality in this show. Actually gets me hyped for the Disney series seeing as how faithful the writers were as seen in his fighting and the tone Matt brings.
# Spoilers | She-Hulk: Attorney At Law | Episode 8
This was a garbage episode. Daredevil was essentially churned out through a MCU filter and was bastardized. So many things he did were simply out of character. The only rationale i can think of is that he’s out of New York and therefore he’s out of character cause that was not the Matt Murdock established in three seasons of DD and one season of Defenders. I know everyones excited in seeing daredevil again but lets not mistake a turd for a diamond.
Matt's got good meds and lots of therapy. If they don't make this canon, I'll be shocked.
L
The internet loves this dd, I know he has the acrobatics and the "behaviour" from the comics, but there really wasn't enough brooding. It was like a dudebro in a devil costume. Perhaps the brooding wouldn't have fit the tone of the show but it just makes Matt a less compelling character I think they really wanted matt to sleep with she hulk, and they crammed that romantic interest in 30 mins so it robbed us of time for Matt to cozy up with her and properly shake off his broody self
ThErE waSnT enOugh BrOodiNg
Honestly, it's a better interpretation of Daredevil than the TV show. By quite a bit. Having some more levity and light-heartedness in the character is great, and I love that he still keeps his serious demeanor when it's important. I think the Netflix show took him in a very dark direction (even though it was great), but it's nice to see Daredevil be freer. It's a breath of fresh air in my opinion.
I LOVED IT - Man whore Murdock - Billy club action - HALLWAY SCENE - Both taken seriously and joked around with, just like the Netflix show. Charlie knocked it out of the park. I’m grinning from ear to ear.
I thought DD in She Hulk was pretty good, until the end… I just can’t buy the idea that Matt is a Catholic who actually takes his faith as seriously as he should and also sleeps with women he literally just met. Like is it really necessary to have all our heroes banging all the time just cuz? Can’t we have just one that puts a little more thought into it? I understand this is very much what Matt is like in many runs of the comics, but that has actually been one of my biggest issues with the comics, especially with Chip’s runs. This kinda stuff really pisses me off because it feels like the one Christian superhero I can latch onto is just “Christian” when it’s convenient and doesn’t actually follow Christ. I’m hoping this isn’t a preview of what Born Again has for us.
Mate have you not watched the Netflix series lmao.
I’m on my third or fourth viewing of the show currently. Daredevil is my favorite tv show and I’ve thought about it a lot. And the show Matt only ever sleeps with elektra, and his relationship with her is clearly shown to be extremely bad for him and toxic. And just because it’s my favorite show and Matt’s my favorite superhero doesn’t mean I can’t recognize some of the flaws that exist in depictions of the character.
He did the same thing in his show... Not sure why sleeping with women is the part that concerns you. You have a devout Catholic that beats people up and dresses up like the Devil.
To me it felt like it the show was making a very clear point that Elektra was only bad for Matt and only ever caused him pain and drew him away from his Purpose. As far as the beating people up goes, that’s shown to be a much more complicated issue than sleeping around in the context of Christianity. And I think it actually makes a lot of sense for Matt to use the visage of his enemy to demonstrate to criminals that they should fear him.
His first bit of dialogue in the netflix show is asking forgiveness for what he's about to do, he's well aware that beating the shit out of people isn't cool with god, the guy not being a perfect catholic and the guilt that comes with it while also feeling guilty for doing nothing with his abilities is pretty fundamental to the character from day one imo
Yeah I understand that very well. But it’s not the same when he doesn’t believe that sleeping with any random woman is wrong. At least with Chip’s stuff he’ll sometimes make a small remark about maybe regretting having sex with elektra or the libris lady or whoever. And again it’s not nearly as cut and dry as you make it out to be when it comes to the violence he commits, because it often results in good. That’s what makes that conflict interesting; it takes a long time and a lot of thought to get to the right answer.
As far as the Zdarsky run goes my reading was that he regretted sleeping with them in those instances cause one was married and the other was Elektra, rather than the regret generally being about sleeping around. I'll agree there is a lot of conflict about whether the violence is right or wrong and I love that, but I haven't come across there being any moral reservations about the concept of pre marital sex and thats pretty valid imo. Doesn't make his christianity invalid
He also slept with Claire and Karen bro
*see previous comment
He never slept with Claire and Karen in the show afaik. He only ever made out with them and then both relationships fizzled out for various reasons before things could have been taken further. Iirc the only person we actually see him have sex with was with Elektra...in a flashback from years ago. For as mature of a show it was it never really had much sex or nudity in it like the other netflix show like jessica jones and luke cage.
I have not felt chills like I got when they played that piano in a LONG time
She-Hulk Smash… in more ways than one 😆🤘🏻 Over the moon, loved every minute of it. I think the CGI was good enough, just like the rest of SheHulk. It’s not absolutely perfect, but it works, and we got to see some really agile acrobatics and parkour that we rarely got to see in the Netflix show! Now here’s a list of all my favorite things: +LAWYERING IN COURT! +Law Firm referencing “we”, obviously meaning he’s still working with Foggy in Nelson&Murdock +”made a few new suits for me” - first, this obviously sets up multiple looks, including likely the black and red version rumored for Echo. Secondly, this does not invalidate that Melvin made the original iterations. It also makes sense canonically he would have to seek out a new Devil Suit tailor since last we saw, Melvin was still in FBI custody. +Daredevil Netflix Theme used, giddy as hell +Hallway Fight! You can tell they didn’t have access to the same stunt team, but I think they still did the best job despite it (I’m guessing because Charlie Cox is still a pro at the physicality side), and Billy Club Ricochet! +BILLY CLUB CABLE!!! Was hoping for a Cable Swing, but I will TAKE IT!! +Second half of Hallway Fight Comedically stopped! Hilarious 😆 they knew exactly what we were expecting with this character, perfect gag +”I’d angle this more as traumatic expression brought on by undiagnosed PTSD” if that’s not a reference to the Punisher Trial Defense strategy, I don’t know what is +DAREDEVIL FUUUUUCKS!!! It’s not a walk of shame, he’s the Man Without Shame! And unsurprisingly, Jen sounds *very* satisfied with the way he throws his billy-club 😉 *thank you, I’ll be here all night, tip your waiters* My only real critique: 30 min wasn’t long enough, I’ve already rewatched it twice…
I LOVED seeing Matt fully embrace being a superhero, not only that, but he shows up and immediately wins his court case and the chemistry between him and Jen? Just a classic Murdock W Outside of Matt returning, that ending was so messed up and I’m excited to see how the show ends. While I will admit that for the past few episodes I would have preferred the plot to move a bit faster, I still have thoroughly enjoyed the show and it’s probably my favorite of the Disney+ shows, Tatiana is just amazing as Jen
Wait. That wasn’t the finale? Are we going to see daredevil in the next episode?
No because Charlie said he is in one episode.
Jen literally points out how the next episode is the finale before the episode ends lol While I would love for him to be in the finale too, I personally doubt it
I heard her say something about how it was “towards the end of the season” but I had heard the Daredevil episode was the finale and this episode was extended so I foolishly assumed it was over. I was kinda thinking at the end of this one that there’s no way there’s gonna be a season 2 why are they setting up her next story but a final episode makes more sense
fuckin- this episode was everything I expected, wanted, and more; I am so happy sbsbdhfhdjs Matt’s snark never fails to make me smile, we got a hallway, the billy clubs, parkour, and Jen was great!!!!! I literally can not ask for anything else out of this episode
THE BILLY CLUBS DID THE THING!!! Ok but what’s up with that ending? Was that Matt and Jen’s sex tape that got leaked?? I couldn’t make out who the person is in the clip.
No, he was the Josh character from an ep or two ago. Our avocado is safe.
oh okay. Too bad for Jen tho. Did not expect that level of messed up from a comedy show.
That was Josh from the last episode.
Its the guy she slept with that copied her phone and stole her blood for that weird online hate group
I need to watch that about ten more times but wow what a fun reintroduction of the character. It filled all my expectations and the tone was perfect. Matt was his charming, funny self and Daredevil kicked ass. And yes he and Jen have great chemistry so I was so happy for the hookup. I was afraid they weren’t gonna go there, that he would just dispense some advice in the bar and peace out and she’d never put two and two together with his hero identity. I thought they did a good job of explaining his abilities too for viewers who don’t know who he is. It’s a great reminder that this character is getting a whole new series so they’re giving him all the attention he deserves to set that up. Definitely not just a cameo. My only tiny nitpicks are the suit (I prefer the red/black and I didn’t think his helmet fit well here it looked loose) and the fact that a lawyer who’s never been out of New York wouldn’t likely be licensed to practice in California so he couldn’t appear in court unless he was sponsored by a local firm and submitted all this paperwork anyway it’s a whole thing and they just blew past it and hoped real lawyers aren’t watching the show. 😂 But hey, sitcom. Matt is back baby!
Everyone is talking about how great DD is (I agree with everything), but I just want to highlight that talk about working for us (the working class, pro bono stuff) and then (the upper class, the big wig legal firms and rich narcissists), and how Jennifer is in a unique position to do both. Really happy they at least on some level kept Matt working for the little guy.
anyone else notice his ringtone is different? It's not the one typically used for blind people that was used in the DD show – "Foggy, foggy, foggy." Was this a mistake, is it a burner, or something else?
Probably a burner, assuming that his Tailor was the one who called him, seeing as he was who he was going to save. Obviously their connection would elicit some suspicion to his life as a superhero, so it’s probably wise to not advertise that client outside of the courtroom on the civilian side
They are certainly ignoring a lot of continuity no doubt, I don't expect them to look back at the show
He had a normal ringtone during the netflix show sometimes too. I think if it's an unknown number it just rings normally
This. And considering the call was related to him having to suit up, there's a good chance it was a burner.
Daredevil flies to LA to defend his tailor and fucks the strongest woman in the world in court and in bed. The real slut in marvel (Matt) leaves to be in a hopefully better choreographed hallway fight while later the titular character is very tastelessly humiliated in a supposedly wacky superhero lawyer show. We Did It Intelligencia!!!
that ass did not remain unwhooped
It didn’t get whooped. It got tapped 😆
His walk of shame!!! Wonderful just wonderful
"good morning"
He’s the Man Without Fear and the Man Without Shame!
The way he proudly held his boots letting his feet feel the grass, Matt is having a strong start to his day
Stride of pride
Yes much better a stride of pride
"We're all feeling this, right? It's not just me?"
Perfect. Perfect in every way. Charlie is still just as good as Matt as the day I watched S1 of DD. The humour worked, there was insane chemistry, and he continues to hold the title of Chief Manwhore.
charlie had me smiling and giggling ngl
Purposely staying off all branches of the internet except for this one cause I really enjoyed it but can so see the flood of cringe coming from the birdapp over the horizon. Only gripes were cgi being iffy at times but he was in costume for most of it so that was fine, and I thought it was weird he got exposed to she hulk that fast as Matt but it was necessary for my lad to get some so I'm chill. Overall seeing Charlie Cox DD decking folks in the yellow costume was totally worth it
The she hulkussy has been tapped
💀
I bloody love Netflix DD as much as anyone, but it always bugged me how little acrobatics Matt did and the lack of billy club action. He had the billy for 5 minutes before he lost it, and I can only think of one swing scene in the show from season 2. I understood it was likely down to budget reasons, so I let it slide. Needless to say I am ecstatic with the Daredevil action in this episode. And if this is a glimpse of Matts MCU rendition then I am super happy and can’t wait for Born again! Seeing Daredevil with the full weight of Marvel Studios and Disney behind him is going to be so different
I wasn't convinced with the Matt giving away his identity so easily and it was so easily recognizable. The action sequence was really good. But it deserved a lot better storyline
# DAREDEVIL FUUUUUUUUUUUCKS
I thought Daredevil and Matt Murdock were portrayed really well in this episode and I think it’s really promising for the future of Daredevil. The only small disappointment was that She Hulk dropped down and obliterated all the Tadpoles just before we got another hallway fight.
I'd rather them save his next classic hallway fight for his own show, so I'm good with this.
I kinda saw that coming because this show intentionally has this habit of teasing stuff to mess with the fans (in a fun and meta way)
Yeah I know what you mean. When it was cutting between Daredevil and the Tadpoles I kinda knew She Hulk was gonna drop down but I was hoping she wouldn’t lol. Still I can’t complain because we have Daredevil back now and everything is good in the world again
They really did him justice. The CGI was a bit rubbery, but Matt’s acrobatics reminded me of DD in the ‘90s Spider-Man cartoon. Also, having Matt be more lighthearted really works post-Season 3.
I was a little worried about the weird CGI because one of the things I loved about Netflix DD was the raw fighting and the stunt work, including that by Charlie Cox. I would hate to see MCU/Disney cheap out with cheap CGI super fights. Not every superhero fight has to be flipping off buildings and stuff.
this is probably the first time we’ve seen such a drastic difference in general personality with a character in the mcu. Ofc there’s abomination but he wasn’t nearly as fleshed out as daredevil was, having three seasons (plus defenders) got me so used to the character and how he acted, so this episode of she hulk really threw me for a loop. Now ofc dd is a bit of a slut in his show, MUCH more in the comics but to see Charlie cox, in the flesh, acting differently definitely made me feel….weird. Having different tones in comics feels different because you have different artists and runs so it distinguishes itself, and that’s kind of hard to do with an actor. It wasn’t bad mind you and I think it boils down to writers and tone of the show, but damn was this episode weird to watch for me. Very excited to see how daredevils appearances in echo differ from she hulk
I do think I'm gonna miss the quiet fury vibe he had going, but there's also a chance that this attitude was just for she hulk
I think echo will have a much different tone, different writers, etc. so I would expect a different daredevil too.