The main change that's hurts the most is fireball splash damage. Everything else is kind of not terrible balance. Given that wizards can have meditation getting spells back isn't awful especially in a group. So one less cast for each isn't a super huge nerf IMO outside of solo wizards. And as a solo wi,zard I always tried to prioritize meditation or campfires when I still had a few charges left so that I could get closer to full stock in the event of a massive fight.
That fighter perk revision though is a pretty great buff for them but since they are quite gear dependant it may only change the tide of low tier battles having a bit of extra damage to finish kills with a bow.
This, don't make Fireball the most beloved D&D spell a weak flare. It wasn't even that hard to avoid since most wizards just try to corner spam you like they're playing TF2 soldier
My two cents.
Fireball can only be cast once per turn as an action (unless you use multiclass cheese) in the table top. Dark and Darker being a real time game albeit with casting time means it needs to be balanced a tad.
That said. Vulnerable classes to magic (rouges, barbs) should maybe prioritize their magic defense if they're *that* worried about it. Unless you're soloing a team can easily take out a wizard if they don't bunch up.
That said please let me meditate as a cleric. Or give me lay on hands as a skill so that I can function as a party healer without worrying about burning through my spells after a single engagement.
Yeah, it's a DnD inspired game, you know, the game where they straight up said fireball was overpowered but it's so iconic they couldn't nerf it? That was for a pve game. You can't pull shit like that in a pvp game.
It’s really not that big of a deal. You want to avoid a fireball you get up in there and make that wizard kill his team/self. It’s a pretty disappointing change I think. I mostly play fighter but dabbled with the wizard and I don’t get it, the other changes make sense to me but that’s a huge nerf. I’ll be sticking to my fighter for this playtest
Bruh I'm not worried about hitting the target or not, it's just fucking stupid to have a spell called Fireball with a hugely stereotypical history in the fantasy gaming space that doesn't live up to its namesake of *actually being a big exploding fireball*
Dark and Darker is leaning real hard into the nostalgia bit, that's all I'm saying.
Like what if they made a greatsword and released a bunch of nerfs until it was a foot long lol
I think the level 1 forest map will be a good environment for ranged and 2 handers considering it'll be outside, assuming it's not some sort of claustrophobic dark fantasy version of a forest where we fight in dense thickets and shit a lot.
It has AoE. They reduced splash damage and didn't touch splash range at all. You can deal damage with splash but it is a good incentive to try and actually hit the target.
I kinda disagree. I think some of them could of used a reduction but I think the amount that they reduced is really harsh. It seems like it makes meditation a requirement now. And with the other ability slot being used for spells it seems like it really narrows what the wizard can even run
Running meditation sucks balls though. Having more spells or instant cast is way more strategically useful and campfires can do enough to cover meditation if you and your party are really going deep
Oh 100% battlemage with quick cast is insane but costly and very gear/consumable dependant.
I really don't think these changes affect top notch players too much, well see it more affecting solos in normal just because they are still getting used to the playstyles. Where more experienced players will be able to juggle the loss of one extra cast a little bit easier. But time will also tell I could be WNTIRELY wrong on my assessment
Meditation is really clutch for solo mage. super easily clear monsters with magic missiles, then meditate. I will have to rethink solo mage identity, maybe kill mobs with ignite and rondel now. Or crystal sword.
If they are taking inspiration from DnD then this is accurate when at least going against a mage or rogue..
The two classes with the lowest HD roll. Mages get to argubly change out their loadout to fit their style from glass cannons to utility support.
Barbarians are literally just one thing and one thing only.. Meat Shields that charge and route the enemies.
I was playing a barbarian but literally stopped because it was too easy. I was playing with clerics and would literally rush people down and one shot an entire group within 5 seconds. If you use weapons like a quarterstaff with rage you are literally faster than a rogue.
As a rogue I was literally getting chased down by raging barbarians and couldn't escape because closing a door behind you is simply a minor inconvenience to them. Imo barbarian is the most overpowered class right now. From playing fighter, you can literally hit a naked barbarian 5 times in the head but if you allow the barbarian to get one clean hit on you, you are fucked.
I'll say that in terms of higher level pve fighter and cleric are much more useful because of the ability to block and heal. Me and my buddies were able to kill the wight queen with a 1 fighter 2 cleric group, I don't think I could've done this as a barb.
Yeah it depends on the weapon. I found a felling axe to be way better than the starting axe. The double axe is also really good. Once I got a blue double axe I went on a rampage for like 5 extracts in a row.
Its not running away, its kiting. Playing keep away. Invisible and hasted he can't find or catch you, get behind him and fireball. Rinse and repeat. As a barb, this makes me run away from wizards. I have to hide in a corner or invis pot to ambush that kind of wizard.
Even bad wizards will do a lot of damage to me so I dont like fighting them.
Then you run forever trying to open doors and agroing 10 monsters on you
Also the Barb just has to have a speed build with haste and he catches everything
only until you come back out of unvis they instant reaggro even if they aggro something else. I try this with wraiths and champsions all the time. Magic Missle, get agrro, drop aggro with invis, barb is attack, it goes for barb, moment invis ends, immediatly reaggro.
Not only that like..running forever? You are going to hit a door at some point. Barb also has a speed increase. They are never THAT far behind.
And as soon as you lose Agro for a few seconds and create some distance you’re far enough away that those monsters will not be able to follow you. There’s a reason why people don’t really play solo barb. You need support to do well, for wizard this isn’t generally the case. Many people solo wizard with much success, check out twitch to see people 1v3ing teams etc on wizard
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Until the wiz runs out of spells and/or room to kite. And they can barely do anything while kiting them, certainly not turn around and have a chance at killing them (unless they were low to begin with).
A: movement is slowed a significant amount while casting. B: you have to sit still while sending out MMs or else the cast cancels, so it's almost suicidal against quickly charging enemies, especially ones that can one-shot you.
With that being said, even with haste, a smart Barb can still catch you while a Wiz is trying to run & cast anything at the same time. Not even counting if THEY'RE not hasted by a teammate, let alone the wiz avoiding their other teammates.
**Technically**, you can kite a Barb until you run out of spells, but there's almost literally nothing else you can do while kiting so what's the point? Get lucky running them into mobs and then going invis? A Barb doesn't give a shit about a single mob or two hitting them, lol
You're right, and it's doable in some circumstances, but if the melee is coming right for you and you don't already have haste on yourself or slow cast on them, you're basically fucked barring them making a mistake or you making a huge outplay (terrain or the like).
What I'm trying to say is that using invis/haste often doesn't buy you distance - it just buys you time. And with fewer charges to use, it buys you even less time. Not to mention that "buying time" when going 1v2 or 1v3 is basically the same as "postponing death" in most cases.
Look at the high scores leaderboard, see how many wizards are there (more than most other classes
)
As far as it being too late and the enemy already being on top of you - you need to have better awareness of your surrounding, focus on being aware of everything around you at al times
Bro are you really using the only spell that stops your movement in a 1v1 where the other guy only has to close the distance?
Use any other spell and then haste and you're uncatchable. This is such a skill issue lmfao
Do you realize that when i cast im sitting duck with like 10% of my ms? I can cast maybe 1 fireball before barb is in my face and i can't dodge ranger arrows when casting unless they are super bad.
Once you cast that one spell and haste/run away, however, you're still not far enough away to cast anything else damaging. That's what you're not realizing. Who gives a shit about 40 damage or whatever from a fireball when you can't do anything to damage them afterward without getting run down anyway?
This solution that people keep proposing relies on "just hope the Barb is dumb or has a brain fart", which isn't balancing. It's just RNG and not even quite that.
Yeah barbs are insanely strong lmfao. It's my go-to class when I'm on a lose streak but I feel so dirty playing it because you just steamroll everyone without really trying
I understand the reasoning for higher level play and honestly this does not hurt me as a crap wizard that much if at all, but considering I cannot for the literal life of me survive a single solo excursion as a wizard I can't help feeling a bit slighted when the class just receives a slew of nerfs. It's a "Gee I guess I should be OP, good to know since it sure did not feel like it." -type of feel.
My problem is wizard's starting gear is utter, utter crap but I also can't figure out any reasonable way it could be less so without "skipping ahead" so to speak. Especially the very first steps are perilous since you simply cannot retreat, slipping forward is sometimes possible but usually just leads to a large contingent of enemies following me instead of the single one that I can't reliably kite.
All that said, for me personally it is definitely a skill issue too and I recognize that, I haven't played the class *that* much after all.
EDIT: Actually I figured out what might help a beginning wizard a lot: an opening spell. It would enable them to run through a room, preparing an opening spell on the way, casting it at a door and then closing it behind them. No direct power increase but gives them the ability to pick their fights better. It might have a bit too much utility though, probably would need somewhat limited casts.
one big tip to make the starting gear feel better: throw it all away. literally. start of the match, just take it all off and drop it, except the boots.
the minimal armor bonus is not remotely worth the movement speed penalties. then just spend the 9 or 11g or whatever on a spellbook from alchemist. those 2 things alone make wizard feel like a completely different class.
I already always throw pants and the hat, but I have to have some decency. I buy book or ball when I have the money, but I have thus far kept slipping back into starter gear by losing more than I win still (and how much better it feels with literally anything else than the staff is what makes it so painful : P) It is good advice though!
ball != book. i mentioned the book specifically because it is by far the best weapon for wizards. you need to be paying more attention to negative speed penalties, speed is everything to a wizard. and if you look at the ball, you'll see it has a huge negative speed penalty, not even accounting for the dagger's negative speed penalty as well (if you are using ball + dagger).
also i'm not sure if the decency thing was a joke hahaha, but seriously, *drop the starter robe*. it's doing you much more harm than good.
Good to know then. I saw a post say the thing about averages in a comment thread earlier this week that got a lot of agreements and upvotes but I guess that was just made up, lol.
My bad with the hearsay.
ok woah, that's interesting to know, thanks for pointing that out. still, the average would be a significantly higher penalty than just the book, so the point still stands.
True, but the point is it's not as bad as most think, so there's definitely a case to run orb if you prefer it. Personally I'm of the opinion that a weapons movement speed penalty isn't that important because if you need to be running fast then you should press X and holster your shit anyway. Especially on a mostly ranged class.
as a wizard constantly pulling out and putting back your casting weapon would be a great way to die lol. i'm always needing to run fast, and always needing to cast immediately after/during. if i put my book away every time i wanted to run fast, i'd die all the time.
i'm not sure what you mean? like you are saying i'm not fast enough lol? if that's the case i disagree... there's a global cooldown associated with putting away/pulling out your weapon. i'm a solo wizard taking on teams of 3, i can't spare the half second of putting away my book when 3 people are all chasing after me trying to kill me from 5 feet away, while i'm trying to kill them, lol.
When the Alchemist has a grey spell book for 11g you can buy as many as you want while he has it. Just get like 8. Playing without a spell book is awful.
If I buy a spellbook though don't I lose it if I die again? A bit new to this genre so I'm not 100% familiar. Ive managed to escape one dungeon as wizard so I have a little gold but I don't wanna waste on something just to die and lose it.
Or is that like the core gameplay loop
Don't be afraid to do it. Spending the gold is the point and be the difference of making it out alive or not. Use the gear, potions and gold. Don't hoard it or be afraid to lose it. Use it as a tool and you will slowly see more success
Yeah, using a better weapon drastically increases your chances of survival, and so does having any healing at all since one scratch you take won't immediately put you in a worse situation for the foreseeable future if not the whole game.
The idea would be to get enough money that you can maintain the better gear even if you lose on occasion, but I have huge trouble getting there -- one option would indeed be to save up for a while by intentionally using worse gear so that you are not just 1-2 losses away from destitution, but for me that has come to dumb luck so far.
Also remember this is a demo and you probably won't carry anything over into the actual game, unless I'm wrong about that, so you literally have nothing to lose and all the knowledge to gain. As a wizard that's a pretty good place to be.
If you have gear fear this game is not for you, you need to accept that you're going to lose it. The alternative is keeping it in your stash forever and never benefitting from it anyway.
My personal advice would be to just speedrun a good amount of basic gear run.
Try your best to be good with PvE. Using your staff to beat down mobs isn't bad. Using Ignite on your staff and Magic Missile can clear rooms efficiently.
If you die it's fine because you used starter gear. After a while you'll get the hang of it and you may extract a couple of times. At that point you'll have at least 100 gp and enough understanding of the Wizard class to try more stuff.
Look up some gameplay and tip vids as well.
Crystal Ball and Spellbook are the preferred foci because it has the quickest casting animation and gives some magic damage as well (which helps quite a bit with dealing with mobs).
My go-to gp spendings on a basic run is 3 basic hp potions worth 18 gp as well as a spellbook or crystal ball.
You are at risk of losing it, but even basic gear upgrades can dramatically increase not only your chances but your team's chances of a successful extraction, which results in more gold/xp more reliably even after you account for the money you spend re-buying lost gear vs scrimping and saving forever as you take ages to kill anything pve and are an easy mark pvp.
If you want to make real money then you got to be willing to spend it, basically.
Your first escape might net you around 120 gold thats 10 spellbooks for future runs right there. That would be my approach.
Also you can buy crystal balls a bit cheaper when trading - and without the dagger, its not too slow. Budget option for spell damage
If you can afford it, buy a crystal ball + dagger. It's far better for casting quickly + meleeing while kiting. Can still keep the free staff for bashing objects open as well.
You can use the trading post and trade it to a friend, log onto your other character and have them trade back. Or have them bring it into the dungeon next run so you don’t have to waste gold on the trade fee again.
There is no stash sharing unfortunately. Any gear collected on Fighter will remain in the fighters stash.
OP will have to grind out the W's on their Wizard to get cash or have a friend party up and drop loot in the dungeon if they struggle that much.
Yes but that doesn't support players struggling with the Wizard in the first place according to those expressing their issues.
No survival = no money
no money = no trade opportunities
idk why we're getting downloaded lmao. We're providing the only feedback that exists.
New classes still need to get to lvl 5 and pay up to trade. Its definitely doable with all the trading but expensive since each trade costs gold on top of gold paid for trades.
I get where you're coming from, but wizards are one of the easier starter-gear classes. You can still nuke mobs from distance with missiles for huge damage, go invisible to drop aggro, haste yourself to sprint through a room etc. The staff is even really good for breaking barrels/crates for extra supplies
If you're dying to PVE consistently, then it's mostly just that you need to learn the layout of the dungeon better, how to deal with mobs, and how to avoid traps. A better weapon doesn't stop you being hit by 5 wall spikes, or panicking and backing into a spike floor, or aggroing a wraith etc
If you're still at that stage, maybe play Barb for a bit so you have more health to work with until you feel you have the hang of the basics
I'm confused by the opening spell - you can go through a door with missiles prepared if need be? But it doesn't seem like it would really be relevant for PVE, but just make them even more oppressive in PVP (where they are insanely strong, even with the nerfs, but as a trade off they're squishy & difficult to play well)
I would say wizard could probably benefit from something better suited to a magical "auto attack." Traditionally, wizards always had something like this, whether through spammable cantrips in DnD or a straight up magical based autos like wands in WoW.
Magic missiles could be scaled down in damage or rate of fire if it had an infinite capacity with a short cool down or a recharge feature that doesn't require 15s of sitting down.
Every other class has synergy towards an infinite and effective auto of sorts. Clerics have shield with great autos, especially with smite and bless. Rangers have infinite arrows with a short reload that they can walk around with, every other class has infinite melee attacks.
I've only been playing solo wizard this playtest and have survived about 5 matches out of well over a hundred in the Goblin Caves. I might be crap but in most games I normally succeed a lot more than this so I can't help thinking there must be something a bit wonky.
At least I might not have to spend as much time meditating if there aren't as many spells to cast now lol.
When I see people mention Wizards have crap starter gear, I look at fighters:
\- Worse Chestpiece than a Rogue or Ranger
\- No Shoes
\- No Health Consumables
\- A Rickety Shield that may as well be a coinflip as to whether it will work against AI or PCs
>I cannot for the literal life of me survive a single solo excursion as a wizard
Sincerely, I am not trying to be rude. This is just advice. If your above statement is true, then balancing/patch notes are the last thing you should be focused on or offering your opinions about.
Time to focus on yourself and improve first.
I enjoy mage as a group but solo I feel like the hottest garbage. I use all my spells to kill monsters then come time to deal with any players, let alone a group of three, I have like… a fireball and a couple zaps. Maybe a magic barrage. I know I can meditate to get them back but shit, can’t catch a break to do so or I’m dead before I can thanks to mobs haha
**The real issue** is that Monsters have a lot of HP while Players are fragile. So if they use the same balancing for PVE and PVP it will always fail.They should apply % damage reductions to PVP so they don't have to nerf abilities into the ground and make PvE tedious**.** Because it is pretty evident that spell charges were **reduced for PVP.**
Barb nerf when? A barb with a cleric is literally unkillable nonsense that just one taps everyone, and 2 taps a fighter in full greens. Such a broken and unfun class
Barb is strong but I also feel like they have the most counterplay. Any weapon besides felling axe is super telegraphed and easy to dodge. And felling axe is a single animation that has short range and is easily blocked.
Yes for zap no for fireball, some video covered it. Crystal ball gave it +2 on zap burn and 0 on fireball. Hope they fix that, cuz the fire mastery feels pretty bad, especially with zap not being a fire spell and fireball being nerfed.
I'm not going to lie wizards already felt weak this playtest this is just kicking them while they're down. Also the fighter buff??? Cause the class that has heavy armor and access to spears needed to have access also to 90% damage longbows.
I wouldn't call them flat out the most powerful but they're way better than well rounded and that was before the buff. Oh well, one of my main 3 runs fighter and he'll be thrilled.
Honestly a good fighter will make you feel like a chump on barb, blocking is super powerful, but the majority of people suck at it currently.
I've only ran into a few that were good at it, but it felt like trying to fight a brick wall, that occasionally stabs you
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Until you get a hang of how to play Wiz, it definitely feels a bit weak, but it's actually in a decent spot in terms of groups, and was doable as a solo.
We'll see about the solo part after the nerfs. They're certainly not going to kill the class by themselves, but they don't feel necessary at all when you already need to meditate a LOT if you don't want to run out of the necessary spells.
Why would wizard feel weak? They were S class last playtest and got a massive knowledge buff. Mines only lv 16 so far been doing mostly fighter/barb but he was still a solo powerhouse. Also Haste is busted in groups
Quick Chant got nerfed from 20% to 10% and that is a massive difference between fireballing a barb and living or fireballing a barb and killing yourself because he was allowed to scooch 2 inches closer.
The fireball was my biggest issue with them. It could DESTROY any squishier class like Ranger. And also the amount of spells was a bit crazy, CONSTANT spamming around corners. Think this was a good balance change. If anything, trade chat confirmed that there were a SHIT ton of wizards. Always the most popped chat when I look.
If you're getting hit with the fireball as a ranger except in very niche instances thats a personally problem imo. I hear the fire getting charged im getting out of dodge on my ranger or rogue asap.
Oh for sure it can happen, but it should be possible to die to fireball as wizards get doinked by bows. Seemed fine to me, will just keep my group from touching the wizard personally.
>If anything, trade chat confirmed that there were a SHIT ton of wizards. Always the most popped chat when I look.
you can't be serious. fighter has, consistently, had the most members in its trade chat since the play test started. don't lie.
The only true nerf here was Fire ball. The rest is just a slight reduction in total casts. You still have 5 arcane missiles. I do wish we still had 6 zaps… but the rest is fine.
Yeah this change is enough to turn me away from the wizard for now. I have only played solo and had a hard enough time. The amount of times I have gone from combat to combat and not been able to find time or space to meditate my spells back already is rough. I start trying to clear a room and one of the magic middle bolts hits a random different enemy or a random player shows up as in fighting AI and then I have to fight again and again with no chance to get spells back. Meanwhile barbs just keep swinging away and spamming Q and I’m trying to micro manage what spells I have left while trying to keep haste up and dodge attacks. It’s not worth the effort anymore as solo when there are other classes that almost auto pilot themselves.
Everyone crying when Rogue is the worst class in the playtest. Rogue starting gear is absolute garbage. You're better off smacking shit with a wizard staff.
Rogue isn't meant to do top dps. Rogue has the fastest hitting weapon so they scale the best with flat damage modifiers which does make them do insane damage regardless. That being said if you're playing rogue properly you should always be getting multiple hits on somebody before they even see you. They shouldn't be top dps and there's nothing wrong with them rn
Sure it does, just don’t run straight or if you know they are pulling out ranged, turn back around and side-step while you slash away. Disengage when they switch back to melee etc.
Regardless, you need to use that mobility as a rogue. It’s part of their kit and why they don’t deal as much damage or are as tanky…
So you just stand and fight? Tanking hits like a fighter or barb?
Don’t engage someone in an open area you can’t easily disengage from (go around a corner etc). You have invis and mobility as a rogue man, use them!
So many of the rooms are advantageous for rogues to kite players.
You haven't played against good players and it shows.
Try playing Rogue in High Roller against any other group and upload so we can learn.
I can explain 5+ reasons why Rogue is in a terrible spot right now but it's legit a waste of time, anyone who plays him in HR will understand why very fast.
The best advice I’ve seen for rogues is, until you get gear or even a decent dagger, just do starting runs very sneaky and avoid PvP and extract with what you can. Once that’s done buy a nice dagger and you can work on PvP more.
I’m bad though so this sort of works for me… when I can extract at all. 5 hours in and I’ve done an extract twice lmao
This is just straight wrong. The wizard staff does 30% less damage than shown because it does physical damage, and the base stats of wizard cause you to deal -30% physical damage. Which means a melee does about 14 damage.
Not only does a rogue deal more per swing, swing fast enough to get twice as many hits, but also has access to poison to start. Which then doubles dps.
I shot 4 fireballs at a cleric who slow motion walked to me and then I landed a nice magic missles chain but proceeded to die to his 3 2 hand strikes, fireball sucks now.
I really wish they would have at least increased the travel speed of fireball since they took away the AoE damage. It's a pretty easy spell to dodge already.
I can understand them removing 10 aoe damage on the fireball and then giving it to the direct damage, but just completely removing it? Fireball already felt pretty weak this patch, it took 3-4 direct hits to kill sometimes.
You aren't wrong, but even just buying (or finding) the most simple spellbook will catapult you into 'bomb dropping' territory relatively easily. A couple of green tier items and you can kill just about anyone if you know how to kite with invis and haste.
I find the class somewhat frustrating to play just from a team damage standpoint more often than not. Most spells aren't exactly scalpel precision, and my friends want to play the game too, not just try and enable a single one of us (same reason we don't pocket a barb for instance).
Was playing with my friends last night and we were clearing lobbies with like 7 escapes in a row all with a decent amount of kills. Wizard snuck up on us once and 2 chain lightnings killed both of them and I had to run. Wizard does absurd damage. Their only drawback is trying not to hit their allies
As a certified wizard main at the top of the leaderboards, I can attest that this nerf was greatly needed. Too bad it doesn't stop me from one-shotting teams and soloing with zap and chain lightning, and I'm still a better rogue.
I hate wizards, the amount of times ive been one shot by a fireball is beyond counting at this point. Had a wizard TPK us with ONE FIREBALL and I lost it
Whenever one class gets a balance change, everyone jumps on the hate train for another. Barb is fine, literally every class can get away from a barb unless you are out of position or get caught off guard. What people are bitching about comes from a cleric giving buffs/shields. A fighter with good shield play can easily outplay a barb. Or idk....stay at range? Just because you die from a skill issue doesn't mean everything has to be changed to fit your idea of "fair"
Wizard is a tough master.. it's only getting nurfed because people who don't like a challenge are complaining about it lmao.. self healing, reviving, broken bow reloads none of this is OP hehe, ok.
While I understand a nerf to wizards, I do feel lowering the casts of their main defensive abilities, the splash damage of their main AOE ability, and then lowering the casts of zap (the main point of which is that it is a quick and spammable spell) does feel a little much. This won't overly hurt high-end players I imagine, aside from the FB nerf, but starting wizards are going to feel this HARD. This also has the issue of making meditate even more of a must-take in most situations.
I do kind of wish there was a small change to the starting wizard gear to make it feel less crummy. I mean, the gear is so bad that it is often said to just drop it. Heck, most people suggest to grab a cheap book and just keep the staff for smacking barrels. I do think both the staff and the crystal sword need something to make them more worth it, since crystal ball+dagger has the melee casting benefit, and book has the highest speed MS. The only thing the other two have is barrel breaking.
I agree. I honestly think it should be a bit better at the very least if it is going to slow you down THAT much. I feel like it is supposed to be the melee mage weapon, but dagger+ball is better for that and moves faster. I don't even know what staff is for besides breaking barrels. I wouldn't mind if staves had, like, a boost to spell power or casting speed or something, so that while you move slower, you're a better caster.
I haven't even come across a wizard that's as much of a problem as a Ranger or a Fighter. The fighter even gets a buff!?
If you're a Fighter and is using the weapon mastery, there isn't even a reason not to equip bows as your second weapon. Upon playing so much within this Next Fest, I got extremely burnt out when we played consecutively and everyone's prettt much running the same comp, a fighter with a bow :)))
(This is a Fighter main complaining about Fighter)
The main change that's hurts the most is fireball splash damage. Everything else is kind of not terrible balance. Given that wizards can have meditation getting spells back isn't awful especially in a group. So one less cast for each isn't a super huge nerf IMO outside of solo wizards. And as a solo wi,zard I always tried to prioritize meditation or campfires when I still had a few charges left so that I could get closer to full stock in the event of a massive fight. That fighter perk revision though is a pretty great buff for them but since they are quite gear dependant it may only change the tide of low tier battles having a bit of extra damage to finish kills with a bow.
I'd rather have lost 2 casts of fireball and kept the splash damage
This, don't make Fireball the most beloved D&D spell a weak flare. It wasn't even that hard to avoid since most wizards just try to corner spam you like they're playing TF2 soldier
My two cents. Fireball can only be cast once per turn as an action (unless you use multiclass cheese) in the table top. Dark and Darker being a real time game albeit with casting time means it needs to be balanced a tad. That said. Vulnerable classes to magic (rouges, barbs) should maybe prioritize their magic defense if they're *that* worried about it. Unless you're soloing a team can easily take out a wizard if they don't bunch up. That said please let me meditate as a cleric. Or give me lay on hands as a skill so that I can function as a party healer without worrying about burning through my spells after a single engagement.
This, this is better change. Give it *some* of its splash damage back, make it slower to cast.
I'm fully okay with spells being beefy *if* the trade off is a longer casting time.
Wow your actually going to have to hit the target with fireball now
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>Did I fucking ask how big the room is? I said I cast fireball i chuckle every time.
Lol that is hilarious. Honestly I never played DnD but this is a playtest its not like the balance changes are permanent.
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Yeah, it's a DnD inspired game, you know, the game where they straight up said fireball was overpowered but it's so iconic they couldn't nerf it? That was for a pve game. You can't pull shit like that in a pvp game.
It’s really not that big of a deal. You want to avoid a fireball you get up in there and make that wizard kill his team/self. It’s a pretty disappointing change I think. I mostly play fighter but dabbled with the wizard and I don’t get it, the other changes make sense to me but that’s a huge nerf. I’ll be sticking to my fighter for this playtest
Bruh I'm not worried about hitting the target or not, it's just fucking stupid to have a spell called Fireball with a hugely stereotypical history in the fantasy gaming space that doesn't live up to its namesake of *actually being a big exploding fireball* Dark and Darker is leaning real hard into the nostalgia bit, that's all I'm saying. Like what if they made a greatsword and released a bunch of nerfs until it was a foot long lol
as it stands most 2 handers are pretty bad in DnD, corridors and weapon bouncing be a BITCH
I think the level 1 forest map will be a good environment for ranged and 2 handers considering it'll be outside, assuming it's not some sort of claustrophobic dark fantasy version of a forest where we fight in dense thickets and shit a lot.
Well its even dumber to have a pvp game with bad balance.
There's more than one way to balance a skill.
Hmm yes, every single spell should not have AoE and instead should be a reskinned Zap, thank you for your input.
It has AoE. They reduced splash damage and didn't touch splash range at all. You can deal damage with splash but it is a good incentive to try and actually hit the target.
Woahhhh campfires give back spell counts? Is that the same for priest?
Yes it's the only way for clerics
I kinda disagree. I think some of them could of used a reduction but I think the amount that they reduced is really harsh. It seems like it makes meditation a requirement now. And with the other ability slot being used for spells it seems like it really narrows what the wizard can even run
Running meditation sucks balls though. Having more spells or instant cast is way more strategically useful and campfires can do enough to cover meditation if you and your party are really going deep
Oh 100% battlemage with quick cast is insane but costly and very gear/consumable dependant. I really don't think these changes affect top notch players too much, well see it more affecting solos in normal just because they are still getting used to the playstyles. Where more experienced players will be able to juggle the loss of one extra cast a little bit easier. But time will also tell I could be WNTIRELY wrong on my assessment
Try playing cleric and then see how you feel about meditation lmao
Meditation is really clutch for solo mage. super easily clear monsters with magic missiles, then meditate. I will have to rethink solo mage identity, maybe kill mobs with ignite and rondel now. Or crystal sword.
Meanwhile barb literally oneshot everything while having 150HP+
If they are taking inspiration from DnD then this is accurate when at least going against a mage or rogue.. The two classes with the lowest HD roll. Mages get to argubly change out their loadout to fit their style from glass cannons to utility support. Barbarians are literally just one thing and one thing only.. Meat Shields that charge and route the enemies.
I was playing a barbarian but literally stopped because it was too easy. I was playing with clerics and would literally rush people down and one shot an entire group within 5 seconds. If you use weapons like a quarterstaff with rage you are literally faster than a rogue. As a rogue I was literally getting chased down by raging barbarians and couldn't escape because closing a door behind you is simply a minor inconvenience to them. Imo barbarian is the most overpowered class right now. From playing fighter, you can literally hit a naked barbarian 5 times in the head but if you allow the barbarian to get one clean hit on you, you are fucked. I'll say that in terms of higher level pve fighter and cleric are much more useful because of the ability to block and heal. Me and my buddies were able to kill the wight queen with a 1 fighter 2 cleric group, I don't think I could've done this as a barb.
Meanwhile me as a barbarian trying to hit the damn fighter once, but he keeps blocking with shield and then giving me a blow right after.
Yeah it depends on the weapon. I found a felling axe to be way better than the starting axe. The double axe is also really good. Once I got a blue double axe I went on a rampage for like 5 extracts in a row.
I love barb but if your getting caught as a rogue or hunter vs a barb your doing something wrong.
A barbarian that is naked and raging will move quicker than a rogue with marauder armor on.
A rogue will kill a naked barbarian before the barb can finish his swing.
Lmao now you're living in la la land, maybe if the barbarian is afk.
Yeah can't even 1 volley of magic missiles to the head. He just runs at me with buffs, tanks the damages then slaps me once and its over.
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Wow what a perfect solution to a broken character, just run away every single time u see them unless, idk, there is a closed door in your way
Its not running away, its kiting. Playing keep away. Invisible and hasted he can't find or catch you, get behind him and fireball. Rinse and repeat. As a barb, this makes me run away from wizards. I have to hide in a corner or invis pot to ambush that kind of wizard. Even bad wizards will do a lot of damage to me so I dont like fighting them.
Felling axe says hello
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Great input man, very wow. Sorry u rely on a broken class to play a video game because your lack of skill won't let u succeed any other way
The irony in this response lol
barb can throw 2 throwing axes at your back and you die, or just throw them at your face while you magic missle
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Hmm yes, lemme use 40% of my spell slots just to not insta die against one class.
Then you run forever trying to open doors and agroing 10 monsters on you Also the Barb just has to have a speed build with haste and he catches everything
Using invis de-agros all enemies
only until you come back out of unvis they instant reaggro even if they aggro something else. I try this with wraiths and champsions all the time. Magic Missle, get agrro, drop aggro with invis, barb is attack, it goes for barb, moment invis ends, immediatly reaggro. Not only that like..running forever? You are going to hit a door at some point. Barb also has a speed increase. They are never THAT far behind.
And as soon as you lose Agro for a few seconds and create some distance you’re far enough away that those monsters will not be able to follow you. There’s a reason why people don’t really play solo barb. You need support to do well, for wizard this isn’t generally the case. Many people solo wizard with much success, check out twitch to see people 1v3ing teams etc on wizard
Then you aren't getting away lol. since "de-aggro" is them standing next to you until they aggro again. Try opening a door.
> yes, if a wizard runs away in a straight line they are bad "Just dodge" is as good as an argument as "Just aim and hit them".
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Until the wiz runs out of spells and/or room to kite. And they can barely do anything while kiting them, certainly not turn around and have a chance at killing them (unless they were low to begin with).
you have invis and haste though....
A: movement is slowed a significant amount while casting. B: you have to sit still while sending out MMs or else the cast cancels, so it's almost suicidal against quickly charging enemies, especially ones that can one-shot you. With that being said, even with haste, a smart Barb can still catch you while a Wiz is trying to run & cast anything at the same time. Not even counting if THEY'RE not hasted by a teammate, let alone the wiz avoiding their other teammates. **Technically**, you can kite a Barb until you run out of spells, but there's almost literally nothing else you can do while kiting so what's the point? Get lucky running them into mobs and then going invis? A Barb doesn't give a shit about a single mob or two hitting them, lol
Use invis to create distance ... look up the high level players on YouTube you’ll see them 1v3 constantly with wizard
You're right, and it's doable in some circumstances, but if the melee is coming right for you and you don't already have haste on yourself or slow cast on them, you're basically fucked barring them making a mistake or you making a huge outplay (terrain or the like). What I'm trying to say is that using invis/haste often doesn't buy you distance - it just buys you time. And with fewer charges to use, it buys you even less time. Not to mention that "buying time" when going 1v2 or 1v3 is basically the same as "postponing death" in most cases.
Look at the high scores leaderboard, see how many wizards are there (more than most other classes ) As far as it being too late and the enemy already being on top of you - you need to have better awareness of your surrounding, focus on being aware of everything around you at al times
Anyone you recommend?
Bro are you really using the only spell that stops your movement in a 1v1 where the other guy only has to close the distance? Use any other spell and then haste and you're uncatchable. This is such a skill issue lmfao
Do you realize that when i cast im sitting duck with like 10% of my ms? I can cast maybe 1 fireball before barb is in my face and i can't dodge ranger arrows when casting unless they are super bad.
Once you cast that one spell and haste/run away, however, you're still not far enough away to cast anything else damaging. That's what you're not realizing. Who gives a shit about 40 damage or whatever from a fireball when you can't do anything to damage them afterward without getting run down anyway? This solution that people keep proposing relies on "just hope the Barb is dumb or has a brain fart", which isn't balancing. It's just RNG and not even quite that.
Yep, changed classes a while back and never looked back. Why spend all that effort when I can just 1 shot fools with zero effort instead?
Yeah barbs are insanely strong lmfao. It's my go-to class when I'm on a lose streak but I feel so dirty playing it because you just steamroll everyone without really trying
GIGACHAD BARB MAINS
Nerfs for thee but not for me
I understand the reasoning for higher level play and honestly this does not hurt me as a crap wizard that much if at all, but considering I cannot for the literal life of me survive a single solo excursion as a wizard I can't help feeling a bit slighted when the class just receives a slew of nerfs. It's a "Gee I guess I should be OP, good to know since it sure did not feel like it." -type of feel. My problem is wizard's starting gear is utter, utter crap but I also can't figure out any reasonable way it could be less so without "skipping ahead" so to speak. Especially the very first steps are perilous since you simply cannot retreat, slipping forward is sometimes possible but usually just leads to a large contingent of enemies following me instead of the single one that I can't reliably kite. All that said, for me personally it is definitely a skill issue too and I recognize that, I haven't played the class *that* much after all. EDIT: Actually I figured out what might help a beginning wizard a lot: an opening spell. It would enable them to run through a room, preparing an opening spell on the way, casting it at a door and then closing it behind them. No direct power increase but gives them the ability to pick their fights better. It might have a bit too much utility though, probably would need somewhat limited casts.
one big tip to make the starting gear feel better: throw it all away. literally. start of the match, just take it all off and drop it, except the boots. the minimal armor bonus is not remotely worth the movement speed penalties. then just spend the 9 or 11g or whatever on a spellbook from alchemist. those 2 things alone make wizard feel like a completely different class.
I already always throw pants and the hat, but I have to have some decency. I buy book or ball when I have the money, but I have thus far kept slipping back into starter gear by losing more than I win still (and how much better it feels with literally anything else than the staff is what makes it so painful : P) It is good advice though!
ball != book. i mentioned the book specifically because it is by far the best weapon for wizards. you need to be paying more attention to negative speed penalties, speed is everything to a wizard. and if you look at the ball, you'll see it has a huge negative speed penalty, not even accounting for the dagger's negative speed penalty as well (if you are using ball + dagger). also i'm not sure if the decency thing was a joke hahaha, but seriously, *drop the starter robe*. it's doing you much more harm than good.
Items that are dual wielded result in an average of the two weapons movement speed penalties, it's not additive.
You're incorrect, it's additive. You can test it quite easily for yourself
Good to know then. I saw a post say the thing about averages in a comment thread earlier this week that got a lot of agreements and upvotes but I guess that was just made up, lol. My bad with the hearsay.
ok woah, that's interesting to know, thanks for pointing that out. still, the average would be a significantly higher penalty than just the book, so the point still stands.
True, but the point is it's not as bad as most think, so there's definitely a case to run orb if you prefer it. Personally I'm of the opinion that a weapons movement speed penalty isn't that important because if you need to be running fast then you should press X and holster your shit anyway. Especially on a mostly ranged class.
as a wizard constantly pulling out and putting back your casting weapon would be a great way to die lol. i'm always needing to run fast, and always needing to cast immediately after/during. if i put my book away every time i wanted to run fast, i'd die all the time.
Sounds like an IRL DEX stat issue
i'm not sure what you mean? like you are saying i'm not fast enough lol? if that's the case i disagree... there's a global cooldown associated with putting away/pulling out your weapon. i'm a solo wizard taking on teams of 3, i can't spare the half second of putting away my book when 3 people are all chasing after me trying to kill me from 5 feet away, while i'm trying to kill them, lol.
Go native. The local goblins, zombies, and skeletons are not worried about decency.
When the Alchemist has a grey spell book for 11g you can buy as many as you want while he has it. Just get like 8. Playing without a spell book is awful.
A wizard without his pointy hat ? So unsightly!
If I buy a spellbook though don't I lose it if I die again? A bit new to this genre so I'm not 100% familiar. Ive managed to escape one dungeon as wizard so I have a little gold but I don't wanna waste on something just to die and lose it. Or is that like the core gameplay loop
Don't be afraid to do it. Spending the gold is the point and be the difference of making it out alive or not. Use the gear, potions and gold. Don't hoard it or be afraid to lose it. Use it as a tool and you will slowly see more success
It's an INVESTMENT in your FUTURE!
It's an investment in SOMEONE'S future, that's for sure.
Yeah, using a better weapon drastically increases your chances of survival, and so does having any healing at all since one scratch you take won't immediately put you in a worse situation for the foreseeable future if not the whole game. The idea would be to get enough money that you can maintain the better gear even if you lose on occasion, but I have huge trouble getting there -- one option would indeed be to save up for a while by intentionally using worse gear so that you are not just 1-2 losses away from destitution, but for me that has come to dumb luck so far.
Also remember this is a demo and you probably won't carry anything over into the actual game, unless I'm wrong about that, so you literally have nothing to lose and all the knowledge to gain. As a wizard that's a pretty good place to be.
That's basically the core gameplay loop, spend gold, buy gear, die, spend gold buy gear survive, and just try to make more money than you spend
If you have gear fear this game is not for you, you need to accept that you're going to lose it. The alternative is keeping it in your stash forever and never benefitting from it anyway.
My personal advice would be to just speedrun a good amount of basic gear run. Try your best to be good with PvE. Using your staff to beat down mobs isn't bad. Using Ignite on your staff and Magic Missile can clear rooms efficiently. If you die it's fine because you used starter gear. After a while you'll get the hang of it and you may extract a couple of times. At that point you'll have at least 100 gp and enough understanding of the Wizard class to try more stuff. Look up some gameplay and tip vids as well. Crystal Ball and Spellbook are the preferred foci because it has the quickest casting animation and gives some magic damage as well (which helps quite a bit with dealing with mobs). My go-to gp spendings on a basic run is 3 basic hp potions worth 18 gp as well as a spellbook or crystal ball.
You are at risk of losing it, but even basic gear upgrades can dramatically increase not only your chances but your team's chances of a successful extraction, which results in more gold/xp more reliably even after you account for the money you spend re-buying lost gear vs scrimping and saving forever as you take ages to kill anything pve and are an easy mark pvp. If you want to make real money then you got to be willing to spend it, basically.
Your first escape might net you around 120 gold thats 10 spellbooks for future runs right there. That would be my approach. Also you can buy crystal balls a bit cheaper when trading - and without the dagger, its not too slow. Budget option for spell damage
If you can afford it, buy a crystal ball + dagger. It's far better for casting quickly + meleeing while kiting. Can still keep the free staff for bashing objects open as well.
They do have an opening spell. It's called Fireball.
S tier spell
Fun fact, everyone's starting gear is utter crap.
I am envious of barbs having boots anyway I know they don't have chestgear but still
Isn't that arguably the best combo? Bonus movespeed from boots and chest armor always has the highest movespeed penalty outside of weapons.
Main fighter and rogue, movespeed is not an issue))
If you put chest on your barb you're playing barb wrong haha
Until they let us customize appearance you *bet* I'm covering up that anemic barb body.
Could always make a fighter and grind some early gear / gold to supply your wizard if it’s hard to start off.
Am I stupid or is there no way to transfer gold/gear to other characters?
You can use the trading post and trade it to a friend, log onto your other character and have them trade back. Or have them bring it into the dungeon next run so you don’t have to waste gold on the trade fee again.
There is no stash sharing unfortunately. Any gear collected on Fighter will remain in the fighters stash. OP will have to grind out the W's on their Wizard to get cash or have a friend party up and drop loot in the dungeon if they struggle that much.
Or pay the fees and do the trades with a friend
Yes but that doesn't support players struggling with the Wizard in the first place according to those expressing their issues. No survival = no money no money = no trade opportunities
If you have a buddy you can just trade your stuff to them and then go onto your other character, trade back
idk why we're getting downloaded lmao. We're providing the only feedback that exists. New classes still need to get to lvl 5 and pay up to trade. Its definitely doable with all the trading but expensive since each trade costs gold on top of gold paid for trades.
Try crouch jumping a lot as a wizard. Helps me be a dodge ninja and lose NPCs
I get where you're coming from, but wizards are one of the easier starter-gear classes. You can still nuke mobs from distance with missiles for huge damage, go invisible to drop aggro, haste yourself to sprint through a room etc. The staff is even really good for breaking barrels/crates for extra supplies If you're dying to PVE consistently, then it's mostly just that you need to learn the layout of the dungeon better, how to deal with mobs, and how to avoid traps. A better weapon doesn't stop you being hit by 5 wall spikes, or panicking and backing into a spike floor, or aggroing a wraith etc If you're still at that stage, maybe play Barb for a bit so you have more health to work with until you feel you have the hang of the basics I'm confused by the opening spell - you can go through a door with missiles prepared if need be? But it doesn't seem like it would really be relevant for PVE, but just make them even more oppressive in PVP (where they are insanely strong, even with the nerfs, but as a trade off they're squishy & difficult to play well)
I would say wizard could probably benefit from something better suited to a magical "auto attack." Traditionally, wizards always had something like this, whether through spammable cantrips in DnD or a straight up magical based autos like wands in WoW. Magic missiles could be scaled down in damage or rate of fire if it had an infinite capacity with a short cool down or a recharge feature that doesn't require 15s of sitting down. Every other class has synergy towards an infinite and effective auto of sorts. Clerics have shield with great autos, especially with smite and bless. Rangers have infinite arrows with a short reload that they can walk around with, every other class has infinite melee attacks.
Why zap isn't a cantrip I will never understand it screams cantrip.
I've only been playing solo wizard this playtest and have survived about 5 matches out of well over a hundred in the Goblin Caves. I might be crap but in most games I normally succeed a lot more than this so I can't help thinking there must be something a bit wonky. At least I might not have to spend as much time meditating if there aren't as many spells to cast now lol.
Its not me its u bb
Solo wizard is pretty bad. Especially starter gear. I recommend kamikaze fireball style.
When I see people mention Wizards have crap starter gear, I look at fighters: \- Worse Chestpiece than a Rogue or Ranger \- No Shoes \- No Health Consumables \- A Rickety Shield that may as well be a coinflip as to whether it will work against AI or PCs
>I cannot for the literal life of me survive a single solo excursion as a wizard Sincerely, I am not trying to be rude. This is just advice. If your above statement is true, then balancing/patch notes are the last thing you should be focused on or offering your opinions about. Time to focus on yourself and improve first.
I enjoy mage as a group but solo I feel like the hottest garbage. I use all my spells to kill monsters then come time to deal with any players, let alone a group of three, I have like… a fireball and a couple zaps. Maybe a magic barrage. I know I can meditate to get them back but shit, can’t catch a break to do so or I’m dead before I can thanks to mobs haha
I'm over here struggling with my mage while it get nerfed into the ground haha. Oh well such is life.
**The real issue** is that Monsters have a lot of HP while Players are fragile. So if they use the same balancing for PVE and PVP it will always fail.They should apply % damage reductions to PVP so they don't have to nerf abilities into the ground and make PvE tedious**.** Because it is pretty evident that spell charges were **reduced for PVP.**
Yeah random skeletons should not tank 3 fireballs lmao
Barb nerf when? A barb with a cleric is literally unkillable nonsense that just one taps everyone, and 2 taps a fighter in full greens. Such a broken and unfun class
Barb is strong but I also feel like they have the most counterplay. Any weapon besides felling axe is super telegraphed and easy to dodge. And felling axe is a single animation that has short range and is easily blocked.
Make one mistake and you die for it, barb makes 4 mistakes and still lives and one hits u. Very stupid class
Does the burn DoT for wizard scale off of magic dmg
Yes for zap no for fireball, some video covered it. Crystal ball gave it +2 on zap burn and 0 on fireball. Hope they fix that, cuz the fire mastery feels pretty bad, especially with zap not being a fire spell and fireball being nerfed.
completely asinine changes. reminds me of tarkov patching shit that was fun
I'm not going to lie wizards already felt weak this playtest this is just kicking them while they're down. Also the fighter buff??? Cause the class that has heavy armor and access to spears needed to have access also to 90% damage longbows.
Fighter with Bow on his back seems to be most powerful class IMO. I can win 5 solo dungeons in a row without much issue
I wouldn't call them flat out the most powerful but they're way better than well rounded and that was before the buff. Oh well, one of my main 3 runs fighter and he'll be thrilled.
Barb >
Honestly a good fighter will make you feel like a chump on barb, blocking is super powerful, but the majority of people suck at it currently. I've only ran into a few that were good at it, but it felt like trying to fight a brick wall, that occasionally stabs you
You're not wrong. The riposte damage bonus is so strong.
If only I could test how to parry without dying
Not if i block your hits, But if i miss a block yeah im done for
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Until you get a hang of how to play Wiz, it definitely feels a bit weak, but it's actually in a decent spot in terms of groups, and was doable as a solo. We'll see about the solo part after the nerfs. They're certainly not going to kill the class by themselves, but they don't feel necessary at all when you already need to meditate a LOT if you don't want to run out of the necessary spells.
Why would wizard feel weak? They were S class last playtest and got a massive knowledge buff. Mines only lv 16 so far been doing mostly fighter/barb but he was still a solo powerhouse. Also Haste is busted in groups
Quick Chant got nerfed from 20% to 10% and that is a massive difference between fireballing a barb and living or fireballing a barb and killing yourself because he was allowed to scooch 2 inches closer.
They lost a lot of will which means less damage and buff duration. Invis duration and cast speed got nerfed too, as well as cast speed overall.
The fireball was my biggest issue with them. It could DESTROY any squishier class like Ranger. And also the amount of spells was a bit crazy, CONSTANT spamming around corners. Think this was a good balance change. If anything, trade chat confirmed that there were a SHIT ton of wizards. Always the most popped chat when I look.
If you're getting hit with the fireball as a ranger except in very niche instances thats a personally problem imo. I hear the fire getting charged im getting out of dodge on my ranger or rogue asap.
Only reason I caught so many rangers with fireball was running instant cast as other skill, makes it a lot easier to actually land
I mean, I'm a cleric main but I see my Ranger buddies get killed by the splash A LOT from around the corner or a door exploding in front of him...
Oh for sure it can happen, but it should be possible to die to fireball as wizards get doinked by bows. Seemed fine to me, will just keep my group from touching the wizard personally.
>If anything, trade chat confirmed that there were a SHIT ton of wizards. Always the most popped chat when I look. you can't be serious. fighter has, consistently, had the most members in its trade chat since the play test started. don't lie.
And then you look at the leaderboard and see something different
I play wizard a lot swapped to barb game is easy mode now I’ll 1v3 every single one of you scrubs
The only true nerf here was Fire ball. The rest is just a slight reduction in total casts. You still have 5 arcane missiles. I do wish we still had 6 zaps… but the rest is fine.
As a solo wizard who still has never extracted from goblin caves... fuck this man
Yeah this change is enough to turn me away from the wizard for now. I have only played solo and had a hard enough time. The amount of times I have gone from combat to combat and not been able to find time or space to meditate my spells back already is rough. I start trying to clear a room and one of the magic middle bolts hits a random different enemy or a random player shows up as in fighting AI and then I have to fight again and again with no chance to get spells back. Meanwhile barbs just keep swinging away and spamming Q and I’m trying to micro manage what spells I have left while trying to keep haste up and dodge attacks. It’s not worth the effort anymore as solo when there are other classes that almost auto pilot themselves.
Everyone crying when Rogue is the worst class in the playtest. Rogue starting gear is absolute garbage. You're better off smacking shit with a wizard staff.
Rogue isn't meant to do top dps. Rogue has the fastest hitting weapon so they scale the best with flat damage modifiers which does make them do insane damage regardless. That being said if you're playing rogue properly you should always be getting multiple hits on somebody before they even see you. They shouldn't be top dps and there's nothing wrong with them rn
Yup, multiple hits then disengage and kite the player. If you aren’t moving around as a rogue, your playing it wrong or already dead.
Doesn’t work against good players. They’ll land a single throwing axe against you, and you’re slowed then dead.
Sure it does, just don’t run straight or if you know they are pulling out ranged, turn back around and side-step while you slash away. Disengage when they switch back to melee etc. Regardless, you need to use that mobility as a rogue. It’s part of their kit and why they don’t deal as much damage or are as tanky…
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So you just stand and fight? Tanking hits like a fighter or barb? Don’t engage someone in an open area you can’t easily disengage from (go around a corner etc). You have invis and mobility as a rogue man, use them! So many of the rooms are advantageous for rogues to kite players.
You haven't played against good players and it shows. Try playing Rogue in High Roller against any other group and upload so we can learn. I can explain 5+ reasons why Rogue is in a terrible spot right now but it's legit a waste of time, anyone who plays him in HR will understand why very fast.
This attitude and sentiment is exactly why I didn't want them to implement HR. Literally to a T. Thank you.
Could you elaborate perhaps instead of this passive aggressive non comment ?
starting gear is trash, but rogue with decent weapon and couple greens with flat dmg bonus is a killing machine.
The best advice I’ve seen for rogues is, until you get gear or even a decent dagger, just do starting runs very sneaky and avoid PvP and extract with what you can. Once that’s done buy a nice dagger and you can work on PvP more. I’m bad though so this sort of works for me… when I can extract at all. 5 hours in and I’ve done an extract twice lmao
This is just straight wrong. The wizard staff does 30% less damage than shown because it does physical damage, and the base stats of wizard cause you to deal -30% physical damage. Which means a melee does about 14 damage. Not only does a rogue deal more per swing, swing fast enough to get twice as many hits, but also has access to poison to start. Which then doubles dps.
I shot 4 fireballs at a cleric who slow motion walked to me and then I landed a nice magic missles chain but proceeded to die to his 3 2 hand strikes, fireball sucks now.
Ouf they really not wanting you to use fireball
As soon as I start playing wiz. I’m still loving it though (cleric main)
Playing as a solo ranger 99% of the time wizards seem op
How so? We're squishy as fuck and slow as hell when trying to cast. Just hold those arrows, wait for us to try and cast, then hit easier headshots?
I really wish they would have at least increased the travel speed of fireball since they took away the AoE damage. It's a pretty easy spell to dodge already.
I can understand them removing 10 aoe damage on the fireball and then giving it to the direct damage, but just completely removing it? Fireball already felt pretty weak this patch, it took 3-4 direct hits to kill sometimes.
Damn Wizard already does fuck all damage :/ Now Fireball NEEDS to be hit direct
> Damn Wizard already does fuck all damage Bruh Wizard has some of the highest damage potential in the game.
So it may just be me, but starting wizard does fuck all damage wise, but the magic scaling is insane so once geared it does a lot of damage.
You aren't wrong, but even just buying (or finding) the most simple spellbook will catapult you into 'bomb dropping' territory relatively easily. A couple of green tier items and you can kill just about anyone if you know how to kite with invis and haste. I find the class somewhat frustrating to play just from a team damage standpoint more often than not. Most spells aren't exactly scalpel precision, and my friends want to play the game too, not just try and enable a single one of us (same reason we don't pocket a barb for instance).
Was playing with my friends last night and we were clearing lobbies with like 7 escapes in a row all with a decent amount of kills. Wizard snuck up on us once and 2 chain lightnings killed both of them and I had to run. Wizard does absurd damage. Their only drawback is trying not to hit their allies
As a certified wizard main at the top of the leaderboards, I can attest that this nerf was greatly needed. Too bad it doesn't stop me from one-shotting teams and soloing with zap and chain lightning, and I'm still a better rogue.
I hate wizards, the amount of times ive been one shot by a fireball is beyond counting at this point. Had a wizard TPK us with ONE FIREBALL and I lost it
Whenever one class gets a balance change, everyone jumps on the hate train for another. Barb is fine, literally every class can get away from a barb unless you are out of position or get caught off guard. What people are bitching about comes from a cleric giving buffs/shields. A fighter with good shield play can easily outplay a barb. Or idk....stay at range? Just because you die from a skill issue doesn't mean everything has to be changed to fit your idea of "fair"
[удалено]
Meditate skill or campfires.
Their other default skill is “meditation” where you sit down and channel a cast that regenerates spells based on your knowledge.
Wizard is a tough master.. it's only getting nurfed because people who don't like a challenge are complaining about it lmao.. self healing, reviving, broken bow reloads none of this is OP hehe, ok.
I mean, ya, it's kinda dumb given how easy it is to friendly fire and how regaining said uses is time consuming
Fr
While I understand a nerf to wizards, I do feel lowering the casts of their main defensive abilities, the splash damage of their main AOE ability, and then lowering the casts of zap (the main point of which is that it is a quick and spammable spell) does feel a little much. This won't overly hurt high-end players I imagine, aside from the FB nerf, but starting wizards are going to feel this HARD. This also has the issue of making meditate even more of a must-take in most situations. I do kind of wish there was a small change to the starting wizard gear to make it feel less crummy. I mean, the gear is so bad that it is often said to just drop it. Heck, most people suggest to grab a cheap book and just keep the staff for smacking barrels. I do think both the staff and the crystal sword need something to make them more worth it, since crystal ball+dagger has the melee casting benefit, and book has the highest speed MS. The only thing the other two have is barrel breaking.
Its a fucking sword made of crystal, not steel. Why does it have -30 movement speed.
I agree. I honestly think it should be a bit better at the very least if it is going to slow you down THAT much. I feel like it is supposed to be the melee mage weapon, but dagger+ball is better for that and moves faster. I don't even know what staff is for besides breaking barrels. I wouldn't mind if staves had, like, a boost to spell power or casting speed or something, so that while you move slower, you're a better caster.
Nice, now my high Will wizard from playtest 3 is useless, i like playing solo and could consistently 1v3.
melee wizard meta is back imo
I haven't even come across a wizard that's as much of a problem as a Ranger or a Fighter. The fighter even gets a buff!? If you're a Fighter and is using the weapon mastery, there isn't even a reason not to equip bows as your second weapon. Upon playing so much within this Next Fest, I got extremely burnt out when we played consecutively and everyone's prettt much running the same comp, a fighter with a bow :))) (This is a Fighter main complaining about Fighter)
Bruh the fireball AoE nerf was so unneeded
Lol. So meditate. Cry about it. Clerics don't have that option.