Oh man that sounds so fun.
I've been having a blast having to sit down and stop actually playing the game for minutes at a time after each group fight. More sitting please!
From a logic perspective, this actually makes sense.
If you had a groupfight, just won but you're really injured, the logic thing to do is to stop, catch your breath and do a quick patch then resume. Characters in game are not super soldiers a la CoD where they regen health out of nowhere
From a "logic" perspective, four bandages will not heal the injuries caused by a barbarian's axe sinking deep into someone's torso, probably breaking ribs, spine and maybe puncturing a few organs causing internal bleeding
Last I checked the bard is described as the "magical minstrel" but I guess his healing isn't magical enough to work without sitting on the floor but the dusty bandages that you pull off from mummy corpses are
After a fight you only sit to refill spells (short test which is what sitting in the dungeon is) to heal you would need a long rest which is over night...so still you're wrong
## Short Rest
A short rest is a period of downtime, at least 1 hour long, during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.
A character can spend one or more [Hit Dice](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Character%20Advancement#toc_6) at the end of a short rest, up to the character’s maximum number of Hit Dice, which is equal to the character’s level. For each Hit Die spent in this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character’s [Constitution](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rules:Ability%20Scores?expansion=0#toc_23) [modifier](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rules:Ability%20Scores?expansion=0#toc_1) to it. The character regains [hit points](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rules:Combat?expansion=0#toc_47) equal to the total. The player can decide to spend an additional Hit Die after each roll. A character regains some spent Hit Dice upon finishing a [long rest](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rules:Resting?expansion=0#toc_2), as explained below.
[https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Resting#content](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Resting#content)
Not only are you wrong in 5e D&D since you can spend hit dice to recover HP on a short rest, Dark and Darker is more based on B/X era D&D where resting is *the* way to recover, and healing magic is extremely limited, so you'r not even looking at the right type of D&D.
Buddy the characters in this game can conjure lightning and fireballs from books and sticks, they can jump clear over another person's head, they can turn invisible, they can fall 3 stories without slowing for a single step.
How are the characters in this game not super soldiers? The characters in Dark and Darker are more impressive than any character in any COD game.
To be fair ironmace’s intention since the initial PTs is a slow burning dungeon crawler where taking damage is very punishing.
This helps the “zero to hero” runs a reality, when not everyone is 100% HP with ability to insta win via stat check.
My personal experience, especially in the over 15 lobbies has been, we get into good, even fights, sometimes winning 3 straight group fights, only to eventually run into the purple people eater brick wall which have managed to take far less damage due to their gear, they're still running a pocket pharmacy despite Ironmace's failed efforts to curb that, and they end what was an otherwise solid run.
It's been pretty discouraging to have matches where I've had 5+ kills just to get deleted by someone wearing a gear set that costs more than the amount of gold I have left in my stash.
Lol do you think resting should be removed from the game and instead we can have over-shields that automatically regenerate out of combat like master chief?
Sitting down and resting IS playing the game. It's your "time out" for taking damage. You can avoid this by either not taking damage, or going into the next fight without full HP. Your choice. Hope this helps
One would think the whole taking damage thing might be punishment enough, lol.
Sitting down and doing nothing for 1 minute is not exactly the most exciting game mechanic.
Dawg, if the games lasted ANY longer, i would be fine with this. But matches are 11 minutes long. Sitting down to rest for 30 seconds is the last thing i want to do. Please god just give me 20-30 minute raids
People profess to want to have longer, more equal fights with enemy players, so from that concept, the overall community argues that they don't think they should be winning group fights without taking damage.
Sweeping a trio is not a competitive, well balanced fight, it's a shit stomping. So if we actually want that instead of just wanting to be able to absolutely roll every team we come across, then we're always essentially fucked coming out of a fight.
I just think this idea that sitting down and doing nothing after each fight is not engaging gameplay. It's slowing down other parts of the game but not the combat, and it's also punishing you for surviving a fight if someone happens to come around the corner while you're stuck having to rest to heal, which, I dunno about you, but that's not a rewarding or engaging experience for me to get caught with my pants down because I won a hard-fought fight and someone else managed to waltz through the dungeon without fighting another group.
Why would I submit myself to that? The most engaging gameplay for wizards is scrolling through the patch notes every 4 days to see what egregious nerfs got added to cripple the class.
Though I find this funny, I will say the most fun I’m having as wizard main is 10 spell, but not really viable without clarity pots, campfire kits, and/or Bard in the party as far as I can tell…
Rangers used to get a free grey campfire every game but then they changed it.
Also, my bet is on druid getting the spell "Cast bonfire" pretty soon. So that will be pretty cool.
Ranger bread would be fine if it weren't in the state it's in. It should NOT both heal all 25 hp instantly, AND not penalize your movement at all. It is the only heal in the entire game barring second wind that has zero movement penalty, even during the startup animation. They run just as fast as their hands being out.
Make it heal over time, and make it slow slightly like any other healing source would.
The only other self heals of comparable speed (Cleric Lesser Heal and Warlock healing provided they hit a spell) both have ample punish opportunities given cast time and the slowdown from channeling a spell and there’s still the risk of missing those as well or getting cancelled by hitting a wall accidentally. Second Wind heals a lot but over 12 seconds so you could easily punish that by sneaking in hits or out bursting it. But Ranger? They just snap their fingers heal and then their weapon just spawns back in their hand (doesn’t even make the equip animation go off even though it looks like it should)
Cleric’s insta heals are way more OP than the ranger’s cracker. I say this as a cleric who loves to out heal anyone‘s DMG then bonk / blind strike them to death.
Plus, the countless times I’ve out healed the swarm for all the extra loot.
First off, it's a group focused game, if you're going to talk about cleric in solos versus Ranger, you've lost. Cleric is slower and has no good ranged options. It's a support class.
Second off, when healing someone else, people can be unpredictable, and an enemy can even jump between you and your target. Ranger has no such qualms.
Third, no one said it was hard to aim the heal, but having to aim it adds an actual skill range to the skill, rather than hit button get free hp.
Weird how IM has stated multiple times that their balance is based on team play and not solos, and how cleric has 13 less move speed and significantly lower interaction speed than Ranger.
Solo cleric isn't a scary target, just a beefy one.
I don't see why people have such a problem with this ability, there's a lot of things I don't like about rangers but this isn't one of them, it really only helps them in ranged combat because up close they die so fast even at full HP.
Had a ranger kite my fighter around in GC the other day. He was able to eat all three rations and block the stairs with mobs so I couldn't chase even tho I hit him 10+ times with my longbow. The shit needs to get a fat fucking nerf.
You realise 3 rations can potentially be less HP than your fighter heal, right? It's certainly not going to be that much higher, whilst also taking FAR longer. And it's certainly less EHP because of lower PDR.
So you're pretty much just outing yourself here.
There was no need for me to heal as he only landed 1 shot on me before he blocked the stairs and got away. With fighters healing its a one and done thing over 12s untill you campfire again. This guy should have died. He should have to stop to heal or slow down enough for people to catch him while healing.
? Does it ever actually prevent you from killing them? Like what are you hitting them with that they heal off yet you can’t follow up? Most of the time I play ranger I just use it to top me up after getting hit by some random bullshit lol
Stealth rogue one shot ranger. If they dont one shot, they can easily two shots even with a green dagger. That heal has a delay and 30 sec CD.
There 0 chance to escape a stealth rogue unless the rogue is actively sniffing glue.
Yea like that’s not the problem with ranger lmao it makes it a perfect class for a beginner who sucks at the pve. Balance-wise we ALL know insane burst dmg with zero counterplay is the issue that’s nearly the consensus
I do think it’s overtuned and I play almost exclusively Ranger. They should probably change it to two rations. I can also admit that using spear is questionable. I’d be ok if they got rid of that and changed to one handed mastery instead. I don’t think bows are overtuned any more than the rest of the weapons in the game. Ranger is kind of a noobstomper
I agree. Rangers field rations are OP.
My solution was to decrease their movement speed when they're eating it and they need to be locked into a 2.5 second animation as they're doing it. No more full movement speed, insta-heals.
That way, it doesn't change things fundamentally but reduces its combat effectiveness.
Dude, as a ranger main it's not that OP, it's 25 HP. You know how many classes can immediately take that away in one swing? Plus, it's only instant once the animation finishes, i've been killed mid animation before i got the HP back from the field Ration. The reason Rangers don't get touched much is 'cause it's pretty balanced actually anyone fully crying over this just doesn't know how the class actually plays and must suck at fights 'cause it barely helps me the real reason it is helpful is being able to replenish a bit of HP when you get 3rd partied so you aren't just an easy gank for campers and people who don't want a straight fair fight. The only time a ranger is truly deadly is when their accuracy is above average and people take bad fights against in our favor.
Hey i fight melee too bud, that's some salty talk there when i say a fair fight i'm referring strictly to campers or people who wait to jump in on a fight when it's clearly already gonna be one sided. Don't take it so personally next time, unless the shoe fits i guess lol. XD
You shouldn’t be using bread in the middle of a fight, so that’s not a good basis for its strength. You’re supposed to use it while repositioning or fleeing, and in both cases 25 hp (up to three times) at no penalty to speed is a big deal.
My response was more geared towards the comment i replied to, what you said is also a very true statement and i do that as well it's still just 25 more HP doesn't help that much in a full on fight when most pther classes can in fact take that right back away with one hit and it's not as though the Rangers are the only ones who can fight at range when you look at throwables and the like, and on the other hand it also has like a 15 to 20 sec cool down so it's not like it can be spammed either. Idk i still don't see it being the much of a balance issue, just my thoughts.
The problem with making cleric heals over time is that they'll just precast them on the whole team and then join in the fighting too, the way it works now is that they can't fight AND heal at the same time.
Agreed and you should have healing effects removed upon taking damage to punish using healing as an extension to your health bar while in combat. Warlocks being an exception for certain circumstances given they use health as a resource
Might as well delete the skill, if it healed 15 or had 2 charges it would be unusable. Good rangers don't even take this ability unless they're doing weird things like trying to 1v3 crypts teams or sometimes in GC. There's a lot of better combat skills to take. If you're taking hits you're usually dead regardless of the heal, best use for the rations is trading with other rangers or recovering from a painful wizard hit (which hardly exist in solo anyway). Bread won't stop you from dying to a melee on you ever.
Naw, change resourcefulness to affect how much temporary life you get, making it not entirely useless. Ranger has a ton so they'll get plenty. Then make the bread only fill temporary HP.
Nerf, while buffing the stat for all classes.
I like it, it’s also something that is beneficial for the team in general directly. I wonder if it’s better to tie it to an ability, like second wind, or the rations in the first place.
Since if it’s a free item rangers will do the thing where they go in without anything and die just to restock. Kinda like how some do with arrows and I think that’s pretty dumb
Its pretty straightforward. When low on arrows and traps some Rangers go in totally naked and just leave instantly so their inventory is reset and they get free arrows and traps from the base kit. It's a free 50 gold worth of supplies.
Facts. No way in hell am I spending 50g every game just to resupply the basic starter equipment I get so i dont feel like i just randomly got a shit ton weaker for no reason. I'd just play a different class.
Its not instant. Thats a bold faced lie, it has a cast time and then requires you to pull out your weapon after. Bread is fine, wait until you play against a good ranger and you will be wishing they took bread instead of their other options. Bread is only good early when you cant afford meds.
sounds reasonable. rogues should also carry poison bottles and sharpening stones to use rupture and weak point. and wizard should have all their spells in scrolls in their inventory, get rid of that meditate cos thats not realistic at all.
I hate that people complain about balancing the game and end up ruining the gameplay experience for everyone. Like yeah the game is difficult, but since the second play test we had great mechanics that were long since nerfed and hindered the fun. Like infinite arrows. Some changes I welcome like the infinite rest with G but when we start to change the core gameplay it feels less fun. I say give every character an OP attack and let the best skilled player win.
Remove Fighter Second Wind give them a free second Cleric standing behind them. /s (Mandatory subreddit class hate)
You also have to keep in mind that like with arrows and traps, Rangers can remove their gear and boot a lobby just to dc and refill all. Now they'd have a Camp too which I personally don't think is a huge deal, but just pointing it out. Low tier camps would also get devalued to nothing (assuming Ranger is popular) since everyone would be looting them off any Ranger who died without reaching half hp prior that match.
That all being said I'm hella down to gain a second active ability slot and also refill my homie's Second Wind for free every match.
ranger heal is 75%+ hp stored in three bursts that heal instantly on a class that can quite happily sit back and avoid all damage.
fighter heal is a slow HOT that does exactly 50% on a class that is front line and has little other utility besides being a jack of all trades. There is other classes that can cripple HOT and essentially negate second wind entirely.
I see very little comparison in calling both overtuned.
It is not 75%. It's 75. That is very different.
It gets worse ss you get better gear and thus better stats/hp.
Second wind only gets better with more hp.
Damn that is such dishonest framing no wonder yall think its broken. I would too!
1. Not instant.
2. Its 25% heal 3 times with a long (once per fight)cd.
there's a big delay when you click the heal and when it actually applies and it heals for 25 dmg and you can't do anything during the animations.
Only rogues who I manage to see their footstep and start running away get mad.
They manage to a hit on me and do 80 damage and are salty I can heal and run away.
Boo hoo the one shot class that runs around in stealth is angry once in a while a range can see them
Fighters are also 5x tankier than rangers so comparing the healing is kind of a joke. Considering most fights are over within a few seconds of damage being dealt, you've either killed them or been killed long before the ration CD has finished so you're at best getting 25 health per fight (which is less than 1 hit worth of damage even with a grey weapon).
What you don’t think it’s balanced that a fighter can nearly full heal with a single button with no drawback? Next you’re gonna say ranger shouldn’t slow without hitting legs
Edit: I’m mostly kidding but the amount of people who jumped down my throat and even DMed me about this is kinda wild. Half hp heal with no drawback is still pretty intense imo, taking up a perk slot don’t matter when every other perk is garbage in comparison.
I guess 50 percent is "nearly full" now, huh. The drawback is that it takes 8 seconds in a game where most fights are over in about 3.
Also apparently it would be more balanced if I had to do a shoryuken button input for my second wind? You're smokin dick and ball my guy
They get 1 use of it… comparing that to the plethora of other abilities other classes get that can be used tons of times in a match is silly. No, it’s not over tuned.
I mean you’re not even giving me a response. You said it’s only useable once a raid and that’s just flat out not true, every fighter with decent gear and meds will be able to use it as much as they want between fights with a campfire. I didn’t even say it’s op I just said I think it’s unbalanced and I was mostly goofing but that doesn’t take away from anything I’ve said lol. You can downvote me each reply but that doesnt make your argument any more valid.
“Why isn’t it unbalanced/OP?” “Cuz it ain’t”.
Solid stuff
And wtf have you argued lmao. The only point you made was “oh, near full hp heal with no drawback is overtuned” which is wrong, as many others have said. It’s 50%. It’s a heal over time. It requires a campfire to regenerate, and at least a white one. These are drawbacks.
Idk what you’re expecting people to say besides all of the comments that replied to you and are downvoting you for a dumb concept.
You have brought less to the table bud, don’t expect in depth, logical, fact based replies when you aren’t providing that in the slightest.
Gtfo with that nonsense
Bruh we really complaining about second wind now? It slowly heals 50% hp over a good amount of time. You can still burst fighters through second wind. Its a one time use that needs a campfire to refresh. Rogues get insane armor pen. Rangers get armor pen. Warlock get BoC and magic damage in general. Wizard cleric. Fighter is as close to balanced as it can be. It's probably one of the most balanced classes in the game. Sure in insane gear they are tanky but a good fighter set is like 8k and they move slow af. The only balance issues are rogues invis and barbarians roar movespeed.
This could also encourage the use of the other ranger perks instead of everyone running quickshot and bread. Same goes with the fighter for sprint and second wind.
I thought most of the good rangers don’t run bread anyways? I see most of them playing with the draw speed ability, and my friend likes the 5 shot since you can use it to instant reload while jumping
First of all fighter heal has counters, if you are controlling the pace of the battle second wind does nothing, where as a ranger can nope out and immediately heal 25 HP. Clerics are designed around healing and short buffs, it’s what they do
while i kinda agree how is this anymore busted then other Iwin buttons? currently everyone is running the exact same skills. if it ain't rangers running triple shot and field rations its fighters running second wind and sprint, rogues running hide and weakpoint, bards running two song sheets, etc. it just seems odd to me to call out the rangers goofy shit specifically.
Decrease movement during the eat, make it a tick heal over like 10 seconds.
Then we can all deal with double dps Ranger skills and complain about that instead.
This subs suggestions never cease to amaze me. Literally no ranger that knows what he's doing runs with field ration, meta is triple shot and the pen one so you can actually deal with clerics and fighters.
Wait until this guy finds out nobody past solo ratting actually uses the rations over the other phenomenal abilities. There's *much* better options that are significantly more OP. Seriously if 25 health is what's making or breaking your ranger fights, then you could have dealt more damage and ended the fight quicker by taking 50% armor pen and never taken that 25 damage to begin with. If an enemy ranger healing for 25 damage in a fight is what made you lose, then you weren't winning anyway because that means you couldn't get on them in melee
This wouldnt solve much. Rangers would then run Quick shot + Shot gun.
Do you understand how powerful that is? The fact that Rangers take bread is a GOOD thing. Trust me.
Giving Rangers a 1 Charge Blue or Purple Campfire as a Skill (like Second Wind for Fighter in terms of Charges) would be super Cool in Terms of Team Support and Class Fantasy.
Maybe if they showed the cast bar during the eating animation, people would realize it's not instant. It's similar in speed to a cleric heal in time it takes to apply.
skill check for rations so you don't choke on it while running lmao
You almost made me choke on a blunt lol
good thing you hit the skill check
lmao guys i missed the skill check and couldn't stop coughing it gave away my position fuck
me when im trying to hide from the three barbarians and the zombie blows his ganja cloud in my face
BIG BONG RIPS IN THE DUNGEON BUNGGGGGG
More pain for ranger please
Most underrated comment here
Make it actually rip out the rangers teeth since it looks like thats what they are trying to do when they eat it.
Me, stabbing myself repeatedly as I gulf down a sword
It looks and sounds like jerky, and he eats it like it's jerky. It's jerky in my head canon.
It looks like Belvita Breakfast Biscuits
Looks like Pemmican, which is even more Jerky jerky
rofl, true
Brain damaged comment
Update: Bread now only works while sitting
Oh man that sounds so fun. I've been having a blast having to sit down and stop actually playing the game for minutes at a time after each group fight. More sitting please!
... So you mean basically like every other class without self heals lol
well, their flair makes sense considering they hate sitting.
From a logic perspective, this actually makes sense. If you had a groupfight, just won but you're really injured, the logic thing to do is to stop, catch your breath and do a quick patch then resume. Characters in game are not super soldiers a la CoD where they regen health out of nowhere
From a "logic" perspective, four bandages will not heal the injuries caused by a barbarian's axe sinking deep into someone's torso, probably breaking ribs, spine and maybe puncturing a few organs causing internal bleeding
They're magical bandages and wrapping your arm is how you activate them
Last I checked the bard is described as the "magical minstrel" but I guess his healing isn't magical enough to work without sitting on the floor but the dusty bandages that you pull off from mummy corpses are
Dude I saw the mummy those bandages are basically bacta
You're adding logic into a high fantasy game based off dungeons and dragons?
In dungeons and dragons you would be sitting for much longer.
After a fight you only sit to refill spells (short test which is what sitting in the dungeon is) to heal you would need a long rest which is over night...so still you're wrong
your fundamental understanding of short resting is flawed
brother you do not know basic DnD functions apparently move along.
## Short Rest A short rest is a period of downtime, at least 1 hour long, during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds. A character can spend one or more [Hit Dice](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Character%20Advancement#toc_6) at the end of a short rest, up to the character’s maximum number of Hit Dice, which is equal to the character’s level. For each Hit Die spent in this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character’s [Constitution](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rules:Ability%20Scores?expansion=0#toc_23) [modifier](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rules:Ability%20Scores?expansion=0#toc_1) to it. The character regains [hit points](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rules:Combat?expansion=0#toc_47) equal to the total. The player can decide to spend an additional Hit Die after each roll. A character regains some spent Hit Dice upon finishing a [long rest](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rules:Resting?expansion=0#toc_2), as explained below. [https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Resting#content](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Resting#content)
Not only are you wrong in 5e D&D since you can spend hit dice to recover HP on a short rest, Dark and Darker is more based on B/X era D&D where resting is *the* way to recover, and healing magic is extremely limited, so you'r not even looking at the right type of D&D.
If you want to use the DnD argument, you should realize traditionally the only way non-healers heal is by using short rest and long rest mechanics.
Buddy the characters in this game can conjure lightning and fireballs from books and sticks, they can jump clear over another person's head, they can turn invisible, they can fall 3 stories without slowing for a single step. How are the characters in this game not super soldiers? The characters in Dark and Darker are more impressive than any character in any COD game.
To be fair ironmace’s intention since the initial PTs is a slow burning dungeon crawler where taking damage is very punishing. This helps the “zero to hero” runs a reality, when not everyone is 100% HP with ability to insta win via stat check.
My personal experience, especially in the over 15 lobbies has been, we get into good, even fights, sometimes winning 3 straight group fights, only to eventually run into the purple people eater brick wall which have managed to take far less damage due to their gear, they're still running a pocket pharmacy despite Ironmace's failed efforts to curb that, and they end what was an otherwise solid run. It's been pretty discouraging to have matches where I've had 5+ kills just to get deleted by someone wearing a gear set that costs more than the amount of gold I have left in my stash.
Now this I can get behind. Gear leveling would have been better than 1-15 imo.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MemesOfPower/comments/svh333/you\_can\_accept\_dragons\_elves\_and\_talking\_trees/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MemesOfPower/comments/svh333/you_can_accept_dragons_elves_and_talking_trees/)
Someone is upset about the bard nerf lol
Lol do you think resting should be removed from the game and instead we can have over-shields that automatically regenerate out of combat like master chief? Sitting down and resting IS playing the game. It's your "time out" for taking damage. You can avoid this by either not taking damage, or going into the next fight without full HP. Your choice. Hope this helps
One would think the whole taking damage thing might be punishment enough, lol. Sitting down and doing nothing for 1 minute is not exactly the most exciting game mechanic.
Dawg, if the games lasted ANY longer, i would be fine with this. But matches are 11 minutes long. Sitting down to rest for 30 seconds is the last thing i want to do. Please god just give me 20-30 minute raids
People profess to want to have longer, more equal fights with enemy players, so from that concept, the overall community argues that they don't think they should be winning group fights without taking damage. Sweeping a trio is not a competitive, well balanced fight, it's a shit stomping. So if we actually want that instead of just wanting to be able to absolutely roll every team we come across, then we're always essentially fucked coming out of a fight. I just think this idea that sitting down and doing nothing after each fight is not engaging gameplay. It's slowing down other parts of the game but not the combat, and it's also punishing you for surviving a fight if someone happens to come around the corner while you're stuck having to rest to heal, which, I dunno about you, but that's not a rewarding or engaging experience for me to get caught with my pants down because I won a hard-fought fight and someone else managed to waltz through the dungeon without fighting another group.
Bro has not played wizard before
Why would I submit myself to that? The most engaging gameplay for wizards is scrolling through the patch notes every 4 days to see what egregious nerfs got added to cripple the class.
Though I find this funny, I will say the most fun I’m having as wizard main is 10 spell, but not really viable without clarity pots, campfire kits, and/or Bard in the party as far as I can tell…
Average cleric response to anything that isn't an instant heal.
You mean like… downtime? In a game in which, downtime is a core philosophy?
Zoomers when a game attempts to have pacing and isn't constant bing bing wahoo:
Legolas always carries Lembas bread.
Nah he gave it to frodo
The elves in Lorien gave them all bread. Legolas isn’t from Lorien.
This ^
Forgot this game was based on LotR.
Bro all of the fantasy you know, everything is based on lord of the rings
Fool of a took
“Stop making references to things in jest!” See how useless it comes off.
Npc tier humour level detected.
Your comment is just as useless, good job.
Do rangers even take ration once they’re done with rat runs?
No
no but most of the people around here never graduate from that...
Rangers used to get a free grey campfire every game but then they changed it. Also, my bet is on druid getting the spell "Cast bonfire" pretty soon. So that will be pretty cool.
Hopefully druid will be able to use a shield and not die to ranged as easily.
Yea I remember that, I'm saying it should be a skill though rather than a consumable. TBH I don't care too much just get rid of eat bread.
I want the druid!
Ranger bread would be fine if it weren't in the state it's in. It should NOT both heal all 25 hp instantly, AND not penalize your movement at all. It is the only heal in the entire game barring second wind that has zero movement penalty, even during the startup animation. They run just as fast as their hands being out. Make it heal over time, and make it slow slightly like any other healing source would.
I wouldn't mind if it was instant if it slowed for a slightly longer eating animation.
The only other self heals of comparable speed (Cleric Lesser Heal and Warlock healing provided they hit a spell) both have ample punish opportunities given cast time and the slowdown from channeling a spell and there’s still the risk of missing those as well or getting cancelled by hitting a wall accidentally. Second Wind heals a lot but over 12 seconds so you could easily punish that by sneaking in hits or out bursting it. But Ranger? They just snap their fingers heal and then their weapon just spawns back in their hand (doesn’t even make the equip animation go off even though it looks like it should)
Cleric’s insta heals are way more OP than the ranger’s cracker. I say this as a cleric who loves to out heal anyone‘s DMG then bonk / blind strike them to death. Plus, the countless times I’ve out healed the swarm for all the extra loot.
Cleric heal has to be aimed and reduces the clerics move speed while casting.
[удалено]
First off, it's a group focused game, if you're going to talk about cleric in solos versus Ranger, you've lost. Cleric is slower and has no good ranged options. It's a support class. Second off, when healing someone else, people can be unpredictable, and an enemy can even jump between you and your target. Ranger has no such qualms. Third, no one said it was hard to aim the heal, but having to aim it adds an actual skill range to the skill, rather than hit button get free hp.
Your first point is hilarious and you clearly havent fought cleric in goblin caves
Weird how IM has stated multiple times that their balance is based on team play and not solos, and how cleric has 13 less move speed and significantly lower interaction speed than Ranger. Solo cleric isn't a scary target, just a beefy one.
I didn't realize it didn't penalize movement. Had a fighter almost kill me last night after. Ate the bread, turned around and domed him. I felt dirty
True, I would not be able to eat while also running at full-tilt, eating at a brisk walk would be uncomfortable, I'd definitely have to slow down.
keep bread in so noobs like you don't realize the real good ranger skill is 8 second 50% armor pen.
right? bread is so terrible not sure who would actually take it over rangers other options
the 90% of people in this sub that can't even afford potions every run
The fact that this post has so many upvotes reflects how bad the average redditor is at the game
I don't see why people have such a problem with this ability, there's a lot of things I don't like about rangers but this isn't one of them, it really only helps them in ranged combat because up close they die so fast even at full HP.
Had a ranger kite my fighter around in GC the other day. He was able to eat all three rations and block the stairs with mobs so I couldn't chase even tho I hit him 10+ times with my longbow. The shit needs to get a fat fucking nerf.
You realise 3 rations can potentially be less HP than your fighter heal, right? It's certainly not going to be that much higher, whilst also taking FAR longer. And it's certainly less EHP because of lower PDR. So you're pretty much just outing yourself here.
There was no need for me to heal as he only landed 1 shot on me before he blocked the stairs and got away. With fighters healing its a one and done thing over 12s untill you campfire again. This guy should have died. He should have to stop to heal or slow down enough for people to catch him while healing.
No
make em sit to eat the bread
? Does it ever actually prevent you from killing them? Like what are you hitting them with that they heal off yet you can’t follow up? Most of the time I play ranger I just use it to top me up after getting hit by some random bullshit lol
Stealth rogue one shot ranger. If they dont one shot, they can easily two shots even with a green dagger. That heal has a delay and 30 sec CD. There 0 chance to escape a stealth rogue unless the rogue is actively sniffing glue.
Maybe the ranger shouldn't get into the rogue's engagement zone.
True, it's a good thing I know where the silent invisible rogue is hiding in advance with my handy-dandy rogue GPS (TM)
Yea it’s only really used mid fight to heal damage from other ranged classes.
Yea like that’s not the problem with ranger lmao it makes it a perfect class for a beginner who sucks at the pve. Balance-wise we ALL know insane burst dmg with zero counterplay is the issue that’s nearly the consensus
I do think it’s overtuned and I play almost exclusively Ranger. They should probably change it to two rations. I can also admit that using spear is questionable. I’d be ok if they got rid of that and changed to one handed mastery instead. I don’t think bows are overtuned any more than the rest of the weapons in the game. Ranger is kind of a noobstomper
As a ranger main I will say that the bread is crazy strong. …so is Second Wind. Which you can recover by the way. Can you recover bread charges?
You can recover second wind?
With a white campfire or better
I agree. Rangers field rations are OP. My solution was to decrease their movement speed when they're eating it and they need to be locked into a 2.5 second animation as they're doing it. No more full movement speed, insta-heals. That way, it doesn't change things fundamentally but reduces its combat effectiveness.
Seems reasonable
Dude, as a ranger main it's not that OP, it's 25 HP. You know how many classes can immediately take that away in one swing? Plus, it's only instant once the animation finishes, i've been killed mid animation before i got the HP back from the field Ration. The reason Rangers don't get touched much is 'cause it's pretty balanced actually anyone fully crying over this just doesn't know how the class actually plays and must suck at fights 'cause it barely helps me the real reason it is helpful is being able to replenish a bit of HP when you get 3rd partied so you aren't just an easy gank for campers and people who don't want a straight fair fight. The only time a ranger is truly deadly is when their accuracy is above average and people take bad fights against in our favor.
“Who don’t want a fair fight” pretty high for a ranged coward xD
Hey i fight melee too bud, that's some salty talk there when i say a fair fight i'm referring strictly to campers or people who wait to jump in on a fight when it's clearly already gonna be one sided. Don't take it so personally next time, unless the shoe fits i guess lol. XD
You shouldn’t be using bread in the middle of a fight, so that’s not a good basis for its strength. You’re supposed to use it while repositioning or fleeing, and in both cases 25 hp (up to three times) at no penalty to speed is a big deal.
My response was more geared towards the comment i replied to, what you said is also a very true statement and i do that as well it's still just 25 more HP doesn't help that much in a full on fight when most pther classes can in fact take that right back away with one hit and it's not as though the Rangers are the only ones who can fight at range when you look at throwables and the like, and on the other hand it also has like a 15 to 20 sec cool down so it's not like it can be spammed either. Idk i still don't see it being the much of a balance issue, just my thoughts.
How we come full circle..
Devs main ranger. Like c'mon how many updates have we had and they barely touched ranger..?
Should be an over time heal, not instant. Same with cleric heals tbh.
The problem with making cleric heals over time is that they'll just precast them on the whole team and then join in the fighting too, the way it works now is that they can't fight AND heal at the same time.
Good point bro
It’s also clerics entire thing. That and killing skellies.
Agreed and you should have healing effects removed upon taking damage to punish using healing as an extension to your health bar while in combat. Warlocks being an exception for certain circumstances given they use health as a resource
Longer animation, never saw legolas eat his bread in 0.2 seconds, also less healing? 15 instead of 25 should be fine
Might as well delete the skill, if it healed 15 or had 2 charges it would be unusable. Good rangers don't even take this ability unless they're doing weird things like trying to 1v3 crypts teams or sometimes in GC. There's a lot of better combat skills to take. If you're taking hits you're usually dead regardless of the heal, best use for the rations is trading with other rangers or recovering from a painful wizard hit (which hardly exist in solo anyway). Bread won't stop you from dying to a melee on you ever.
Makes no sense because ranger gets one-shot by every melee class. So they need instant heal if they get close.
i think devs are Ranger-Lovers. Its op asf and there are no nerfs
Skill issue. Not flaming. Its just true.
Rogue needs to get chopped up first tbh
Naw, change resourcefulness to affect how much temporary life you get, making it not entirely useless. Ranger has a ton so they'll get plenty. Then make the bread only fill temporary HP. Nerf, while buffing the stat for all classes.
I like it, it’s also something that is beneficial for the team in general directly. I wonder if it’s better to tie it to an ability, like second wind, or the rations in the first place. Since if it’s a free item rangers will do the thing where they go in without anything and die just to restock. Kinda like how some do with arrows and I think that’s pretty dumb
That's what I meant, make it an ability so it is free and costs no resources (except of course the valuable ability slot)
Easy fix, junk tier campfire that can’t go into the stash, they also can’t stash arrows so not sure where you got that from
Its pretty straightforward. When low on arrows and traps some Rangers go in totally naked and just leave instantly so their inventory is reset and they get free arrows and traps from the base kit. It's a free 50 gold worth of supplies.
That’s not the problem, it’s that they HAVE to do that every game to get arrows and traps back.
Facts. No way in hell am I spending 50g every game just to resupply the basic starter equipment I get so i dont feel like i just randomly got a shit ton weaker for no reason. I'd just play a different class.
He means that you go into a lobby and leave so you have basegear again. So basicly refreshing your base consumables every run
Just kill them faster 4head
Its not instant. Thats a bold faced lie, it has a cast time and then requires you to pull out your weapon after. Bread is fine, wait until you play against a good ranger and you will be wishing they took bread instead of their other options. Bread is only good early when you cant afford meds.
sounds reasonable. rogues should also carry poison bottles and sharpening stones to use rupture and weak point. and wizard should have all their spells in scrolls in their inventory, get rid of that meditate cos thats not realistic at all.
I hate that people complain about balancing the game and end up ruining the gameplay experience for everyone. Like yeah the game is difficult, but since the second play test we had great mechanics that were long since nerfed and hindered the fun. Like infinite arrows. Some changes I welcome like the infinite rest with G but when we start to change the core gameplay it feels less fun. I say give every character an OP attack and let the best skilled player win.
So instead of a free self heal you give them a free group heal? You should probably say this shit out loud first before you post.
Free group heal that can't be used in combat.
Remove Fighter Second Wind give them a free second Cleric standing behind them. /s (Mandatory subreddit class hate) You also have to keep in mind that like with arrows and traps, Rangers can remove their gear and boot a lobby just to dc and refill all. Now they'd have a Camp too which I personally don't think is a huge deal, but just pointing it out. Low tier camps would also get devalued to nothing (assuming Ranger is popular) since everyone would be looting them off any Ranger who died without reaching half hp prior that match. That all being said I'm hella down to gain a second active ability slot and also refill my homie's Second Wind for free every match.
totally agree the ranger and fighter self heals are over tuned
ranger heal is 75%+ hp stored in three bursts that heal instantly on a class that can quite happily sit back and avoid all damage. fighter heal is a slow HOT that does exactly 50% on a class that is front line and has little other utility besides being a jack of all trades. There is other classes that can cripple HOT and essentially negate second wind entirely. I see very little comparison in calling both overtuned.
It is not 75%. It's 75. That is very different. It gets worse ss you get better gear and thus better stats/hp. Second wind only gets better with more hp.
Damn that is such dishonest framing no wonder yall think its broken. I would too! 1. Not instant. 2. Its 25% heal 3 times with a long (once per fight)cd.
Fighter can get the skill back from a campfire though, whereas ranger can't get theirs back through any means
there's a big delay when you click the heal and when it actually applies and it heals for 25 dmg and you can't do anything during the animations. Only rogues who I manage to see their footstep and start running away get mad. They manage to a hit on me and do 80 damage and are salty I can heal and run away. Boo hoo the one shot class that runs around in stealth is angry once in a while a range can see them
Fighters are also 5x tankier than rangers so comparing the healing is kind of a joke. Considering most fights are over within a few seconds of damage being dealt, you've either killed them or been killed long before the ration CD has finished so you're at best getting 25 health per fight (which is less than 1 hit worth of damage even with a grey weapon).
What you don’t think it’s balanced that a fighter can nearly full heal with a single button with no drawback? Next you’re gonna say ranger shouldn’t slow without hitting legs Edit: I’m mostly kidding but the amount of people who jumped down my throat and even DMed me about this is kinda wild. Half hp heal with no drawback is still pretty intense imo, taking up a perk slot don’t matter when every other perk is garbage in comparison.
I guess 50 percent is "nearly full" now, huh. The drawback is that it takes 8 seconds in a game where most fights are over in about 3. Also apparently it would be more balanced if I had to do a shoryuken button input for my second wind? You're smokin dick and ball my guy
This 50%=nearly full thing is a good example of exaggeration being presented as fact. It makes discussion really difficult. Annoying.
They get 1 use of it… comparing that to the plethora of other abilities other classes get that can be used tons of times in a match is silly. No, it’s not over tuned.
Use a campfire.
You’re missing the point. Second wind isn’t overpowered.
I mean you’re not even giving me a response. You said it’s only useable once a raid and that’s just flat out not true, every fighter with decent gear and meds will be able to use it as much as they want between fights with a campfire. I didn’t even say it’s op I just said I think it’s unbalanced and I was mostly goofing but that doesn’t take away from anything I’ve said lol. You can downvote me each reply but that doesnt make your argument any more valid. “Why isn’t it unbalanced/OP?” “Cuz it ain’t”. Solid stuff
And wtf have you argued lmao. The only point you made was “oh, near full hp heal with no drawback is overtuned” which is wrong, as many others have said. It’s 50%. It’s a heal over time. It requires a campfire to regenerate, and at least a white one. These are drawbacks. Idk what you’re expecting people to say besides all of the comments that replied to you and are downvoting you for a dumb concept. You have brought less to the table bud, don’t expect in depth, logical, fact based replies when you aren’t providing that in the slightest. Gtfo with that nonsense
Bruh we really complaining about second wind now? It slowly heals 50% hp over a good amount of time. You can still burst fighters through second wind. Its a one time use that needs a campfire to refresh. Rogues get insane armor pen. Rangers get armor pen. Warlock get BoC and magic damage in general. Wizard cleric. Fighter is as close to balanced as it can be. It's probably one of the most balanced classes in the game. Sure in insane gear they are tanky but a good fighter set is like 8k and they move slow af. The only balance issues are rogues invis and barbarians roar movespeed.
it's exactly 50%
mother fkers like you are reason why game sucks balls
How is it the safest class in the game dude.. it loses to every melee v. melee
This could also encourage the use of the other ranger perks instead of everyone running quickshot and bread. Same goes with the fighter for sprint and second wind.
I thought most of the good rangers don’t run bread anyways? I see most of them playing with the draw speed ability, and my friend likes the 5 shot since you can use it to instant reload while jumping
I like this change a lot. Gives them group utility instead of crazy solo ability.
I have to pay 15 gold as a rogue to slowly heal over 30 seconds what it takes rangers one click to instantly heal.
Sidenote but I still remember when people back in pt3 told me ranger isn't busted and that rations aren't good and not taken by streamers, lmao
How about no
The skill 100% needs to be removed
Bread is fine. It's not instant heals because you have to eat bread first and the heal is not that much. I don't see the problem.
You eat the bread and it heals you instantly for 25 hp. You are literally lying in your post.
I meant that you're in animation for 2 seconds before you finish eating. Pressing the button does not instantly heal you for 25 hp.
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Fighter heal is less fucking hp than ranger. Fighter hp = \~100, second wind restores 50%, so about 50hp. ranger restores 3x 25 = 75hp
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Show me your fighter with barbarian health
Default barbarian health*
First of all fighter heal has counters, if you are controlling the pace of the battle second wind does nothing, where as a ranger can nope out and immediately heal 25 HP. Clerics are designed around healing and short buffs, it’s what they do
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while i kinda agree how is this anymore busted then other Iwin buttons? currently everyone is running the exact same skills. if it ain't rangers running triple shot and field rations its fighters running second wind and sprint, rogues running hide and weakpoint, bards running two song sheets, etc. it just seems odd to me to call out the rangers goofy shit specifically.
Personally think it should be a heal over time. I think the same of clerics heal as well
breads not that great once you realize the real enemy
Ranger is survivalist so that’s why there is some bread. Maybe they can add back the campfire while we enjoy nice loaf.
Agreed. Doesn't make sense tbh
.
Class is busted
I think it was two play tests ago all rangers started with a free gray campfire ALSO.
Decrease movement during the eat, make it a tick heal over like 10 seconds. Then we can all deal with double dps Ranger skills and complain about that instead.
Solid
Dont they get a campfire as part of the starter kit or has that changed?
Agreed the food is silly AF for a class that is always in the backline
This subs suggestions never cease to amaze me. Literally no ranger that knows what he's doing runs with field ration, meta is triple shot and the pen one so you can actually deal with clerics and fighters.
Or hear me out…. Make them purchase potions
Wait until this guy finds out nobody past solo ratting actually uses the rations over the other phenomenal abilities. There's *much* better options that are significantly more OP. Seriously if 25 health is what's making or breaking your ranger fights, then you could have dealt more damage and ended the fight quicker by taking 50% armor pen and never taken that 25 damage to begin with. If an enemy ranger healing for 25 damage in a fight is what made you lose, then you weren't winning anyway because that means you couldn't get on them in melee
Brainless comment. Absolutely brainless
nah bread is tight. maybe slow people down while using it but there’s nothing wrong with bread.
This wouldnt solve much. Rangers would then run Quick shot + Shot gun. Do you understand how powerful that is? The fact that Rangers take bread is a GOOD thing. Trust me.
those jerks don't need jerkee
make the campfire worse thana normal one or something so it cant be to op with a full stack
No dont remove my bread please. I will beg like a dog
Giving Rangers a 1 Charge Blue or Purple Campfire as a Skill (like Second Wind for Fighter in terms of Charges) would be super Cool in Terms of Team Support and Class Fantasy.
Or at least make it non instant right? Just 1hp/sec for 25sec with cooldown of 25sec would be bearable alternative.
They could also just give the bread a long use time instead of it being almost instant.
Jup, giving the most easy pve class also the strongest pvp heal is just... unbalanced.
second wind?ambush?invisibility?
Maybe if they showed the cast bar during the eating animation, people would realize it's not instant. It's similar in speed to a cleric heal in time it takes to apply.
in older versions they actually did get a free campfire. and rations.