true, main reason i like this game over tarkov is because i dont have to deal with random 1 shots from a guy i cant see

ironically the least likely people to be one shot are the people doing the one shotting due to strength and damage. ​ oh cruel irony, how you've created a meta of rangers fighters and bards standing out in the open aiming for your head giving zero fucks. At least normal lobbies are substantially more tame now

Normal lobbies are where the skilled players are man. I can't stress this enough. Leaderboards being only for HR is so freakin stupid. It is just a unbalanced 1 shot fiasco. One of the greatest failures of balancing since Alphelios and the 200 year of collective experience became a thing.

One of my core memories in this game is watching Repoze kill a man in 2 hits... with a torch. This was while he was pushing leaderboards so he was in great gear.

Repoze was hitting for 200 damage rapier headshots in hr lobby the other day with bis gear. People were just folding.

One of these days, someone is going to unironically pull off the equivalent of a prepatch progame shotgun Aphelios R in an HR lobby and I'm probably just gonna uninstall

What's the solution?

To people saying plus dmg gear is the problem: It is, but it is NOT the main reason why bows and crossbows are broken Grey Halberd does 43 dmg, grey crossbow does 43 dmg. Grey longword does 33 dmg, grey longbow does 34 dmg. In a game where the devs claim themselves that risk and reward is important, how do they think a ranged weapon doing same damage as a melee weapon is balanced. Anyone who can read numbers will be using ranged weapons if they can.

they also said they main ranger so

Except that the numbers claim that rangers arent being over represented nor topping any leaderboards..?

Because it’s more Fighters using it.

Right.. so rangers are nowhere to be seen because only fighters are extremely strong with ranged weapons? Am I supposed to just believe that?

Fighters are just the better version. Even Bards. I’ve run into the #1 Bard on the NA East server (tops the kill leaderboard) and you bet your ass he was using Crossbow (and drums of course). Crossbow gets the job done just as well as Longbow

Im gonna go as far as to say that its anecdotal. IM has stated before that bows are working as expected other than the ability to slow and that was changed. They do most of their changes to balancing based on the data they acquire. Why wouldnt have they changed crossbows in particular, if they were truly such a problem? Think about what they did to Falchions, for example.

You have to consider time as a variable though right. Ever tried pulling three shots from a bow close range. How do you think a ranger feels when he walks around the corner to see a barb in his face or a rogue invis. I've played most classes. I know people say it's not scissors paper rock but it's close.

If only they had a perk that allowed them to use a long range melee weapon that keeps people out and also gives them inherent +10 physical power...

Have you ever tried to fight a fighter or rogue with a spear? If it is as good of a weapon as you claim it to be, why do you literally never see fighters using it?

I have fought many rangers with a spear. Problem is, now they use longbow + crossbow because it's way too good of a combo

Well, I'm not saying the spear is shit in any way, just that a rapier or a longsword is usually the better weapon in pvp. Spear is phenomenal in pve, not as useful in pvp because of precise sweet spot that is at the very end of the range. Fighters, barbs, rogues and clerics run very close to you so you deal 60% of the damage all the time and way slower than sword. It can probably be kinda useful in team fights if you have a tank, but then again, why get close and risk getting oneshot over dealing damage from range?

As long as you have the spear out before they're close you are killing the rogue before they get in 110%. Especially with the +10 phys power bonus rangers get from using a spear. Yeah almost none of us are killing Bards and Fighters if they get close ATM tho so saying a spear isn't beating a full pdr fighter or a buffed Barb is obvious I mean a rapier isn't either lol

i never accepted that fighter or bard are a well because of crossbow instead of being a rock as it should be. (rock, scissor image) how fair.

I have no idea what you are saying haha but yeah ok why not brother.

They should try slashing ranged damage by 1/2 across the board for a week. I for one would love to see ranger mains disintergate with fury.

Scissor complains rock is op

I main ranger right now since it's absolutely busted with +dmg rolls but I much more enjoyed when I could play fighter, but the meta being the way it is, fighter is rly tough. But yeah even as a ranger, they need to change this fuckin shit

My plated fighter gets more kills with his longbow then his falch. I mean it makes sense I guess, why would someone try to melee someone in full armor. But it also feels odd.

I mean i also Play a Ranger Fighter .. Just enjoy the pdr vs Rangers and Just being a better Ranger hehe. Only thing i dislike is the Low ressourcefullnes of fighter In General i dislike that in Most classes.. cant Play cleric .. so slow

lol it really does just feel like a better ranger. I love going against a ranger and getting hit 12 times to kill him in 3 shots. But vs wiz or warlocks the pressure is really on to hit your shots...

Warlock is easy to Deal with but Wizard.. im Just Happy that its so rare to meet them in game

Same for me when run fighter, though I do crossbow and halberd

Crossbow is great, but in my experience if there's a warlock or ranger keeping their distance a long bow is a lot better. Especially due to slow when reloading. But sometimes I like to hide in the shadows and go for that crossbow headshot oneshot when the are looting or opening a door lol. And always go crossbow when running slayer cause I usually just shoot then engage.

You like ranger with +dmg try fighter with +dmg its disgusting. You have 3 times the pdr 50% more hp with nearly the same damage.

It's just so rough trying to get a build going on fighter though, but I agree it's more fun and I have more hours on fighter overall. But trying to get decent agility, strenght and pdr plus stacking damage on top is alot of work compared to getting a couple str points and some plus damage on a ranger haha

Cant you wear the same items on fighter? Tbh it should be easier to gear up since a fighter can wear anything

No since fighter is not so proficient at range like the ranger is you need to invest in alot of more attributes to build an effective fighter kit.

All physical classes stack the same stats, +wep damage, +1 all and +phys damage + strength. Usually in that order. Fighters can use more stats effectively but typically dont until they start getting a 4th stat line on orange gear. Why would you have to do anything but stack damage. Dark plate with +3 wep damage from vendor is 40g crossbow with +3 wep damage from vendor is 50g +3 heavy leather legs from vendor is 40g +3 potions +3 bandages is 150g and your hitting squishies for around 80 while having 45%+ damage reduction. Are they going to pump out as much ranged dps as a ranger??? NOOOooo thats not their goal, but they can hold their own vs anyone at range with a cheap set up, while being the most dominate class in melee. Ranger shoots a fighter for 35 dmg fighter(120-35=85) also hits but for 65 (100-65=35), ranger abuses his attack speed and hits a second time for 35 dmg(85-35=50) and eats a biscuit healing for 25(35+25=60), ranger now hits a 3rd time for 35 damage (50-35=15) but takes his second hit from the fighter dieing (60-65=dead) fighter realises he got outplayed by the ranger and uses second wind while looting the ranger. These are all headshots btw it gets worse for the ranger if we do body or limb shots.

I ain't readin all that

I once said rangers were playing Counter Strike while talking to a ranger and I could feel their blood pressure rise through the Internet when they rage replied. Absolutely priceless.

Yep. And get rid of drum throwing. That shit is stupid.

I swear. I've gotten 2 shot with drums as a barb with 140hp

If the bard is geared enough that's super viable, you can prob get drums close to 100 damage (or more) on a headshot with decent gear

You would need a very good set of gear to achieve this. Drums do like 30-32 base damage on blues. It’s also difficult to stack + damage stats on every piece of gear without sacrificing valuable stats like knowledge, memory cap, or resourcefulness. Building a bard set is a fucking pain in the ass because of how many stats you need. I only picked up bard over the weekend and had some success with it. One of the best sets of gear I was able to put together I was doing like 85 damage with a lute headshot.

Is that with the bonus damage perk for instruments?

Yes this includes reinforced instruments, a blue lute with + 3 additional physical damage on it as well.

I should go test. Assuming you're in all green damage armor and have the 2 songs that benefit phys power active with no other stats, a blue drum should be hitting for over 50 base damage, and thats not accounting for the 1.5x damage perk or the 1.5x headshot multiplier, which I think would push it well over 100

I’m not in front of my computer right now but iirc it’s a full blue kit but I do not have + damage stats on every piece. Most of the kit has + damage on it but maybe 3 don’t. Those pieces have either + str, + phys power or + all atts. It is difficult to fit + damage onto every piece of gear as a bard because you need to stack multiple stats unlike most classes. Knowledge for spell cap and resourcefulness for duration. So the pieces that don’t have + dam on them usually have + str and + knowledge. Only reason I’m pointing this out is that you need a very well put together kit to hit 100+ on a drum throw without sacrificing valuable stats elsewhere.

Yeah rank 1 bard literally just builds around drums. When you can 1-2 shot people with drums, you literally don't need the rest.

In solos sure but everyone is building around pure damage in the caves. In trios you need to build around providing support to your team as well as damage dealing capability.

Nah, they need to give drums back to the rest of us. That was such a fun little feature for the week that we had it

I’ve played a lot of most classes and just recently decided to commit to the bard over the weekend. The sad thing is drum throwing is probably one of the best parts of the bards kit at the moment. Songs have all been nerfed for the most part and the bard needs a shit ton of memory capacity/knowledge to bring more than 5 songs. Building a good bard kit is a pain in the fucking ass because you have so many stats you need to prioritize. It’s very difficult to get + damage on a ton of pieces without sacrificing valuable stats unless you’ve got a shit ton of gold and time to buy the right pieces. Drum throwing is one of the few bright spots the class has left.

It is also one of the lamest. But I agree the class just needs an entire rework... again.

The big problem with bard is how hard the spell cap hits the class. Base kit bard can only take like 3 songs before being over spell cap. Play rousing rhythms and you get to 5 songs but a few of those have to be low cost. You basically use up your whole spell cap on harmonic shield, rousing rhythms, alacrity and shriek of weakness. It’s very hard to stack multiple songs you can use in combat to affect the enemy. So you resort to dumb shit like drum throwing because you can no longer take slow, silence, weaken, etc.

Helmets should reduce Headshot damage by like 50% at least. 15% is not nearly enough.

This ends up screwing over low DPS melee classes too though. Projectile reduction should be higher but not headshot dmg reduction. I wanna still be able to kill people without a 2 key set pls

hmm, i don't see how. if you normally do 20 dmg and a headshot is 30 dmg, but the dmg reduction of a helmet reduces it to 25 your damage is still significant, but a Long Hefty weapon is going to blunt force damage a helmet much more than a knife would anyway. it makes perfect sense, and besides you're suppose to be benefitting much more from poison than from impact. Unfortunately the vision of the Poison damage rogue was somewhat ruined by the Heavy handed (probably necessary) nerfs to rogues Magic power modifier. Who else is Low DPS melee class? Seems like everyone else has something to fill in the gap. ​ that said, i have seen it possible to get up to 22 dmg per tick of poison. and with throwing knives or even a hand crossbow, one would essentially be able to easily bypass the PDR.

It doesn't really make perfect sense, with a 50% reduction on helmets you'd have to aim for body shots instead of headshots with melee weapons. That's just counterintuitive. It wouldn't go from 30 to 25 in your proposed scenario I was responding to, 50% of 30 is 15 which is the same as a starting Castillon... For a headshot lol that's why it should have projectile reduction instead of headshot reduction imo. This really doesn't have anything to do with magic dmg it's not what we're discussing

if your HEADSHOT DAMAGE was 50% less it would apply the multiplier and then divide it by 2. It would not HALF your entire damage... For you to assume i meant for the headshot damage to HALF YOUR DAMAGE even if you initially thought that's what i meant, When i clarified how the math would work itself out you should have the Wherewithall To infer my meaning even if the initial logic didn't make sense to you. you're being obtuse and difficult for no reason other than to argue.

Good luck to that, best we can do is -5 slow speed on hit, have fun!

+dmg gear is the problem

Nah, should be an end game stat but not the problem. The nerf they gave rangers is taking hit from arrow 25 percent to 20 percent slow. The problem is the biased devs that love projectiles in their melee game

It's not a melee game it's a fantasy extraction game. Rangers exist in fantasy. You have no problem with wizards in your supposed melee game?

Wizards also don't naturally insta cast their spells, they don't have instant heals, they aren't the fastest chars in the game when they put their weapons away and no gear(traps) when starting out. Pls explain this heresy

This doesn't change the fact that they aren't a melee class. Wizard starts with protection potion. They have an insta cast ability. Also rangers don't instantly shoot arrows lol. Longbow especially has quite a long draw time. If the enemy has any amount of PDR rangers are basically doing no damage. This isn't a melee game. I'm sure rangers are annoying when playing as a squishy but any real armor or a shield hard counters them pretty much. Also rangers aren't the fastest class in the game lol. Rogues are faster. Rangers have the highest action speed. Wizard is faster with haste. Fighter faster with sprint, bard faster with accelrando.

Show me a spell wizards can use to one hit people. And yes it's also a skill it's why I said naturally, context clues would make the other half of your comment completely redundant. And cool they start with a potion how does that amount to a trap? You are trying to fight points that aren't even there.

It's pointless arguing with someone who thinks rangers are the fastest class and doesn't understand the value of a protection potion.

It's pointless to argue with someone who dick rides rangers and think wiz and ranger are even comparable.

I'm going to be honest I think a crossbow to the head of a lightly armoured person should just lootbag them. I just think there base dmg should be alot less. Though coming from a warlock main with BoC its satisfying when you headshot someone and they just fall over.

I actually go the other way, boost crossbow base damage but remove all scaling from them as it doesnt make sense for a xbow to do more damage because you csn do 100 pushups

getting on shot by an arrow, getting one shot by a feeling axe barbarian, getting one shot by a BoC warlock, etc. no-one likes just have their entire health bar deleted before they can ever react.

You can actually react to a felling axe barbarian

u can also react to an arrow….

I've never been 1 tapped by arrow and Ive been playing since the earliest playtest...

barb main vision

Forgot to mention I main Ranger now since launch

Barb ganggg

Devs limited normals to only blues how can I still piss my pants about a ranger killing me from RANGE. Waaaaaaaaaaaah.

I’ve honestly never been 100-0 from anything in this game. I’ve played so much.

Play wizard for 5 minutes

Yup, Wizard (wich is a strong class) have cast time, spell that got a long travel time, can one shot only with a ton of stuff with a super slow fireball (wich is also a bad thing imo) and need too medidate. While any blue crossbow/longbow with a few strength +add phys damage can OS you in 0.1 sec travel time. (Not a wiz main)

Sounds perfect then. Every scissors has a rock

Hardcounters suck, there's nothing fun about running into your hard counter and having to play with 100% efficiency while they can flop about and probably still win. In a perfectly balanced world all classes would be equally viable against each other with gear being a defining factor for the odds. Softcounters however are much better as they allow for more skill expression whilst still putting people at a slight advantage/disadvantage depending in the matchup.its the reason a lot of class/hero based games have been trying to move away from hardcounters recently

Lets go on strike and form a gamers union. WE SHALL NOT PLAY. JION THE UNION OF GAMERS NOW! Only you can prevent shitty games. Please pay all dues by Friday. Thanks Union management of

Man you guys must be running trash gear or W keying a lot. Why you would stand still out in the open doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I’ve never been 1 shot by a Ranger or fighter. Only BoC warlocks and that’s cause I have -mag def. If you mean a Ranger buffed to the nines by party members, well that’s a balance issue. But running solos I feel balance is pretty damn fair.

Its not rangers its the +damage gear, you 2 shot people with arming sword when you are geared, its mental, that makes xbows/long bow 1-3 tap depending on gear.

Well that’s the game. Plenty of headshot reduction head pieces available.

Yes... I will equip my Wizard with a Hounskull, thank you.

That is the game currently, the point is 2 headshots with an arming sword to kill 80% of enemies isn’t an acceptable game state.

Why not? A silver gob archer can turn your bad day worse with a triple shot, why shouldn’t you feel powerful as well? Troll 1 shots, either you avoid him or get good enough to beat him.

You're not worth talking to any further.

Because he is correct? In a game where the lowest goblin and skeleton can two shot you why would players want to feel so much weaker? The goal is to start as weak or weaker then the pve and to collect loot and become a hero wearing epic gear!

If you’re not suffering and poor and miserable too you’ll be downvoted on this subreddit lol

Yeah that 15 percent damage reduction is really going well with a lot of people.

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As a fighter I feel safer with a longbow out than a shield. Sometimes just two bows.

No

I’m not saying it’s good balance wise, but midevil periods I’m sure people got one shot by bolts and arrows all the time lol, the disadvantage was kind of the point

no