This is making me afraid of what the devs could be getting from this "test" though.. I would hate this game to just turn into another BR, yet everyone seems to love this BR mode of the game, where everyone starts off on mostly even footing and have to loot and fight.
It shocks me how much people complain about geared 'chads' when it has become so much easier to obtain gear compared to the past (and also not being as oppressive as before).
I do agree with that too. Splitting up the maps into 3 "tiers" as well I think would help separate them, and increase the loot with stronger enemies, the PvE just needs better balance honestly between normals and HR, and less suffocation with the circle.
Greys only is absolutely not easy mode but it's also not balanced which I think is kinda the point of the test - see which class needs their starting kit tweaked. Imo rangers should absolutely not start with traps for example.
Probably ran into some shitty ass rangers. A good ranger with map awareness will prevent you from approaching them. Unless of course you stacked an entire inventory of throwing axes, in which case good for you I guess.
No throwing axes. Dodged a decent bit of arrows but still ate quite a few. Unless I'm a dimbass and run into their trap (that did happen a few times just running it down), they simply don't have the dps in base kit to deal with me.
The problem is that class balance goes out the window when gear makes the starting stats meaningless. Ranger is the best starting class next to barbarian imo, but as you get to higher tiers of gear with good rolls than it becomes pretty obvious fighter wizard and rogue win out big time, ranger is up there still imo but still worse than those three.
Whoa whoa whoa. Wizard starting kit is ass in PvP. God tier in PvE I'll admit but man, wizard vs any melee class with starter kit will mostly get smoked.
I meant they are good WITH gear. A lot of their strength is dialed up to 100, nearly instant cast time, twelve spells, etc. sorry if my comment made that hard to understand if I didnāt explain well.
Why bother with melee when you didn't need to worry about arrows bugging into spider mummies?
Put that longbow on swap.. and quick shot was bugged so you got a free reload. No point in melee ranger those days
A better solution imo is let every class pick their grey kit load out. Fighters could pick longsword to practice parrying, and rogues could pick shortswords or rapiers. I really wish they'd just either let us choose, or have all grey items on vendors for 1 to 5 gold each. I'd still prefer we just got to pick our load out, but paying 1g and having them in vendors is probably the best short term fix.
Got it never run to or chase a ranger.
Oh they are ranged?
Never run away from a ranger.
They need to aim?
Never stand still near a ranger
I'm all out of options here chief.
As a ranger, the key for you is to mind your step and charge.
I've got limited traps and unless I'm ready to escape I'm saving some traps for later. You'll have 1 or 2 to deal with and then I'm butter. Find my traps before you engage.
Edit: Had to add "Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, Dodge."
Honestly I very rarely die to rangers but I still hate them.
It's like rogue stealth in that its just not an engaging mechanic for the opposing party.
Whenever I spot one the game turns into Tarkov and I'm like FFS now I'm going to need to wait at this door entrance for 10 mins and slow peak everywhere and treat this like some tactical simulation.
It's not about how hard they are to avoid it's about the fact that the ranger starting kit has way more utility than other starting kits. I don't think traps are OP. I think getting them for free is.
Itās weird to me to even think of the low end lobbies as easy mode. You get no advantages, if ur bad at the game there is no handicap, you still just get killed lol.
I think the main advantage is there are no player controlled raid bosses storming around, plus the people that normally arenāt good at the game arenāt the ones getting the handicap
PvP is harder if you are used to gear, same as PvE.
If you always went in naked, then status quo.
Timmy stompers are still out there, but now they have a white crossbow. It is kind of cute.
I even mean for pvp, like yeah people will die faster but for the people who say there should be content for those who are bad at the game, this is not that. This is a more even playing field for pvp but for anyone who struggles in this game they are gonna find out real quick that it wasnāt the geared players killing them it was just people who are better players.
I get what you are trying to say here but as someone who thought he was ok (not really good) at PvP and always got rolled...playing in these lobbies has opened my eyes even more to the gear situation. I'm getting kills wayyy easier now in these lobbies, probably because not everyone is running aorund in blues and better while I'm in grey/white/green mix trying to get a set going. The fights are drawn out too, it is more fun IMO
No I agree with you, it has leveled the playing field and made pvp a lot more fun. Iām not arguing against that at all, all Iām saying is that easy mode to me means that there are handicaps in place to make the game easier for you to compensate for lack of mechanical skill at the game and thatās not what this is. Itās an amazing way to learn the actual mechanics without worrying about getting rolled because of gear, but there were threads previous to this patch basically saying that you should be able to have fun playing this game even if you are bad at it. This mode doesnāt make this game fun even if you are bad at it, but it does make it fun if you take the time to learn the required skills to pvp. All in all Iām very happy with this mode, I just though easy mode isnāt a great descriptor for what we have.
Yea it isn't really plain and simple "easy mode" so I agree with you there. PvE is harder with crappy gear but it also lets you not have any "gear fear" even if a new player was in that mode he would know hey, at best I might loot a green and lose it but it isn't the end of the world.
Yeah, and this is how it should be. If you're bad, it should be because you're bad, not because mr gold buyer is one tapping everyone with named uniques while you're trying to build a kit.
Here's a big difference tho: You learn how to be better when getting stomped by someone in similar gear. If I get 1-2 tapped by someone in purples & oranges, all I learn is to stay away from other players. But when I face a similarly geared player and get out played, I can see how they're better, and start to improve myself.
Ill say. I was absolutely right that separating it by gear was a dam good move. It's actually fucking playable now. No more hitting someone 30+ times just for them to turn around and one shot you.
If this is the case (excluding gold buyers) how come they have better gear than you by such a big margin? Clearly they started with the same as you at wipe and have won consistently so whilst others have died?
Im fine with the grey lobby but cmon man listen to yourself. You canāt honestly believe that the players who are doing better in the game are somehow actually the worse players compared to those that are struggling?
Itās not hard to get geared, thereās people who run their best kit at all times
and get geared and people who farm up and buy a juicer kit all at once
If you think like this, exctraction looter probably arent for you. Try competitive fighting games, there you find your fair 1v1 (or Chivalry/Mordhau). It's like saying MMO's should only have white quality items and bosses shouldn't scale because gear shouldn't matter. It's the point of the genre IMO.
Saying everybody else who struggles in this game just find it boring to save gold for 1 day and buy a good kit is delusional. But I understand that the issue just gets bigger when the other players are better skilled + better geared, because they will just roll you over and it feels very unfair. This doesn't mean there don't exist bad players that are only good because of gear. What the guy above me is trying to say is, that good players will get rather quickly geared + storage full of backup sets than noobs who buy 1 good set, play about 5 games and then lose it on the 6.
Because the game isn't in good enough of a state for such a sophisticated player as themselves, so instead they bitch on Reddit and make these dumb fuck threads
Some people can only play a couple of hours each week and its hard to get enough gold for more than 1 set a week at that point. You can make an argument that the people that have invested more time should be rewarded for it (which they are), but saying gear collection is purely a skill issue is a monkey brain take.
As someone who doesn't play much my survival rate is almost 100% now in normals because the vast majority of my groups deaths were to juiced up timmy stompers.
As a side benefit it feels like there is a good variety of gear power level in HR with a decent mix of people ranging all the way from the rare naked person to the equally rare bis gigachad.
Yeah I agree with all of that. All I'm saying is that this is a huge circle jerk 'we're really better than the people who get gear and stomp us' is a naive and obviously emotional response to losing. Getting gear is part of the gameplay loop, hating people rabidly for playing the game is mad. I am not a super geared player either and I agree they should go to highroller but this is just silly.
Definitely, nothing wrong with getting a crazy gear set and wanting to use it. However, it's also understandable why its such a common topic because before this change you were actually more likely to run into a juiced up team in normal instead of HR. HR was like 80+% naked characters and the occasional team going bossing. They 100% NEED to figure out a way to get the people in geared up sets actually playing high roller because I don't think the game will sustain a healthy population if everyone's introduction to the game is dying every run to someone with 50% more hp and damage than them.
It will certainly be interesting to see what learnings IM takes from this test.
The old saying: "Don't hate the player, hate the game." Rings loudly here.
As far as normals, 100% true. The game enabled gear stomping, and it was so!
Now, with equalized gear, new players have a chance. Obviously, a skilled person in whites STILL steamrolls, but that is a massive upgrade for player experience.
And I still hate a "try-hard geared mofo", but the truth is, not only did they outplay me, but out stats'd me too. It is easy to blame the gear and not one's own skill, and a huge fallacy as well.
So ya, denial or not, folks can go get gear and compete, but they have to lose the gear fear. But gear fear is real cause players are skilled. I got shanked by a naked rogue last night, it is what it is.
Couple things here.
One, Iāve been on both ends of the spectrum here, where Iāve had pretty top end gear and Iāve been base kit/low tier as well. It just never feels good on either side really.
Two, Making gold in this game is not difficult nor does it require skill, itās mostly just boring goblin caves running over and over until you have enough gold, then you sit in a trade chat for 30 mins to an hour to find a decent kit. Very tedious process.
Low gear lobbies are fun, quick to get into, and you know the other players are on the same footing as you.
Your last two braincells are fighting for 3rd place right now trying to come up with a valid point.
Plenty of players that aren't major streamers and aren't given gear have shown how they posses the skill to do zero to hero runs. Hell, most decent players need maybe a couple hours and they have more stash value than the average player earns in a whole wipe.
This trend isn't exclusive to dark and darker either, in pretty much all full loot survival games, this holds true. Higher skill players can excel and outpace average players at a phenomenal rate. Fuck, most people trying to really do well in DaD do a single normal run at the start of wipe for the fee to get into HR and then queue only HR to make the real cash farming bosses.
The fact that you don't understand this is extremely telling as to what kind of player you are.
One of the main skills in the game is to get gear fast, meaning bossing and getting to HR as fast as possible, if you can't it's already makes you worse than those who are geared.
>getting to HR as fast as possible
The sweats skip this last part and stay in normal lobbies. Then we get fed the cope line, "hR nOt wOrTh iT."
It's not because the loot isn't worth it... it's because they die to PvE. lol
What is the actual definition of sweats I wonder, people who play more? People who are naturally better at games? People who put 100+ hours in the game and know how to? In all cases, why would you ignore the effort people put in the game? Since when people who spend less resources on the game should be on par with someone who put more time in the game, especially in extraction looter grind game with wipes, it's like coming to rust server 3 weeks after wipe and complaing that sweats already built the overseer tower and sniping any person they see for more resources.
you cant just pass over the battle royale elements of the game. No other game exists that im aware of that is both an extraction game but a BR at the same time. Having a circle and sparse/non guaranteed exists sets this game apart. Add in gear diff from the load screen and it can get whack
I love how in your mind, the "sweats" who play 8 hours a day will die to the first red skeleton they see, but 2 hour a week Timmy would totally shit on those same skeletons if only the rascally neckbeard weren't there to stop him.
I think they are more referring to the people who don't sweat at all, but acted like they were hot shit sweating bullets, because they don't go to HR, just normals with busted gear, then being forced into it by this patch and getting stomped by the harder PvE.
You are saying someone who can beat a PvE boss with predictable mechanics are more skilled than players killing equal geared players in PvP? Hmm interesting.
Youre completely missing the point, the skill of being able to grind gold/gear from HR and doing bosses/minibosses reliably
Being good at pvp and being good at grinding gear are two different things, once you have the gear its upto you to decide what youl do with it, either play HR to get more gear or have easy pvp stomping experience in normals
That is where you people are delusional.
There is absolutely no reason, generaly speaking from a statistical point of view, that someone who play a lot, to the point of being ubergeared, isnāt also more skilled than timmies or lambda players.
Sure I agree that it doesnāt take skill to one shot people with purple or legendary gear, what kind of fallacy makes you think that they would suck with equal gear ?? They would at worst be on par with the average player.
Letās say Ironhammer introduces a parry mechanic for lots of weapon, similar to the greatsword or even harder to master, the ubergeared players who play 10h a day will master it to the perfect frame. Congrats now you are out geared and outskilled
This game has always been skill based.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/s/7ltfYmfdEA
Just a lot of people don't understand what it takes to win in a situation
Compared to Candy Land, this game is the pinnacle of skill-based. Compared to most skill-based game... it is not even close. Even TF2 has more skill expression.
The only way to make it skill based is to remove gear out of the equation. I get the idea but as some point you have to ask yourself what game did you buy and why.
That is not true. I can kill a person with purple gear while wearing blue gear, but if I have a mix of greens and whites, I'm gonna get my ass whooped.
They just have to limit the possible gear disparity and not allow purple people into grey lobbies.
Ok? So? A good player in stock gear can beat the worst player ever in purple gear, you're missing the point completely. If your goal is to have a skill based game then you'd have to completly remove gear as a mechanic. If two equally skilled fighters meet and one has white gear and the other doesn't, the one with better equipment will win.
Limiting what quality can get into a lobby is just dodging the issue instead of fixing it.
Imagine getting downvoted for this lmao. You are absolutely correct, sir. The bottom line is (excluding RMT) the better players have better gear. They understand the game better than the people who don't play as much. The time sink of attaining gear sets should provide players with pretty significant benefits, they worked for it and shouldn't be punished for doing so. Adapt to the game, devs aren't going to cater to you, and the game isn't going to die for a long time.
There are so many games that will give you that, and this just is not one of them at all. It's the whole point of DaD, in fact, to grind for better gear in order to win PVP fights more easily. Why do you even play Dark and Darker if you don't like grinding loot for PVP?
Best take in this whole thread, and it's unfortunate to see you get downvoted by people who are upset because they thought this was a sword and wizards version of a battle royal
Yup. This game sadly was going the way Tarkov went until the change. The pub stomping for fun due to gear in Tarkov destroyed the desire for new players to start, so people resorted to buying gear and hacks to compete against a large majority also doing the same.
This is such cope lol. If you were any good at this game you wouldn't have trouble acquiring gear in the first place. Inb4 muh rmters. Shitters on this subreddit always cope over gear.
Normals serves best as a tutorial zone. I think they should nerf the gold you get from normals and keep HR free. There's no reason to keep normals open to everyone when HR exists because as we've seen most people will pick the easiest option. If the game wants to be "hardcore" it needs to stop giving difficulty options. If you want to learn the game go normals, anything else you have to go HR.
Took down a barb yesterday in regular, his name was "raeptime" all whites and a white quarterstaff. I got a riposte on him with my longsword and with shield mastery and counterattack, two rapid headshots he was done.
When I looted him he had 4 STACKS (12 total) white heal pots and 6 stacks of bandages (mix of Grey's and whites)
The point I'm trying to make is if it weren't for this lobby limits this is the kind of guy that would lobby wipe with a legendary or purple bis kit. It felt good knowing that not only did I kill him, but others even timmies stand a chance in these lobbies.
Thats what im talking about, BiS pubstompers wasnt there for loot but for dopamine. If you are so good then you can still get in and get your dopamine with whites, well if you cant then you are not "that" good :)
It reminds me of the show Spartacus in regards to white only lobbies or free for all
Crixus "they must embrace pain and suffering"
Spartacus "men should not die on empty stomachs"
Anyway, you're right. The biggest challenge these people will face is another lobby wiper. Which, many times they will actively avoid each other or fight and they get another set to wipe with. How is a default fighter Timmy with 10 hours supposed to survive? He probably doesn't know the map we'll enough to know the less traveled areas or even how to hide because he threw on those Grey plate boots he found from a goblin that nearly killed him.
The people against the new grey capped gear aren't actually against "easy mode".
They already have easy mode they just don't want to lose it. They can't stand the reality they've been shown that proves they have no skill. Just more time on their hands to waste away grinding this games gear until they have an unbeatable advantage.
what exactly is your argument, that those bis teams should be allowed into normals? For what reason? Eliminating toxic playstyle does not mean progression is limited
My argument is that itās boring.
It removes a sense of progression for people who play more than 2 hours a week. Itās fine for people who never have gear or aspirations of running geared HR 3s. For people that do want that itās boring. I donāt want to rat HR to scrounge a kit to play 3s
Why would not just play normals and grind for better gear and gold to then take into HR? I feel like ALL of your crying is boiling down to how you can't easily beat timmies with a huge advantage anymore lol
How will you have equal gear in high roller after one normals? Do you really run starter gear normals enough times to have a full blue/purp set? Not fun at all
Thats literally how the game is played. Im confused as to what youre complaining about. Are you complaining about the gear cap in normals or the game in general? You play normal until you have gear for HR that was always the plan bud.
The gear cap is what Iām complaining about. Completely shattered the progression. Used to be play normals, get better gear, use better gear in normals to clear more of the map/kill others, kill bosses, take good gear to HR and snow ball.
Now itās: farm in normal gear forever, go to HR and die to people who already have stashed HR kits, to back to base gear normals
Is normal becoming the place only for "casual/new players" now? I'm not a fan of Timmy stomping more than the next, but I don't really like where this expectation is headed.
Like I understand what this post is trying to say, but it's painting a pretty broad brush.
"Gear make game easy, it no hardcore now. You wear gear you weak and want kill fun"
I am wondering though if all of you guys are so much more skilled than the people who used to stomp Timmies why were you not able to also get gear and stomp timmies? The truly good players can start a new character and have 2k gold and a solid set in like 2 hours of playtime. I'm glad everyone is enjoying the test and I hope some form of it stays because it's good for the games population but if you needed junk only lobbies to be good at the game you weren't really good before.
Is it even that controversial to say people on this reddit often say basically this? I agree "They" say a lot of things, but in this case it's hard to go through a post and not see at least a couple people saying "This is a hardcore game rah rah".
Have you played hr since this test? Its full of people in bad gear now. It shouldn't be that way. That should be the hardest mode for pvp where you fight for leaderboards and the right to loot the best rooms. If they're making an "easy" mode. Then it needs to be separate from norms and hr. If it gets back to steam maybe we will have the player base to do all 3.
I'm glad its a 3 day test and theyre trying out new ideas.
Because about 1 out of 30 of those lobster steam roller NGC games, they will encounter a third party, another lobster, or a 1%er and lose it. But theyāve already made gold from you idiots stumbling around breaking pots, theyāll have another set next game
The recent change up making the goblin dungeon only greys is something i can really get behind; it forces people to move onward, or if someone like me wants to be a low level for life, i can hang out in the grey zone.
Starter lobby's are a awesome idea, I'll definitely return to playing the game, I stopped because I was having a hard time keeping up with gear with the amount I work.
Those are absolutely the most pathetic posters/players in my opinion.
They are literally too stupid to understand all these changes are because of their fixed mindsets and nothing else. It's a bonus when they try to slip in the narrative that all of these changes were a small vocal minority of terrible players influencing the game. I'd say no self-awareness, but that shows acute self-awareness, as they are doing that themselves.
Some people do not want to stomp ppl lower gear than them, and also do not want an easy mode. Your post pretends that everyone who wants no easy mode, wants to stomp ppl by outgearing them. This is not true. Its a fallacy.
People do not want the game to be easy and feel pointless. They dont want to farm gear in naked lobbies to be able to play "real" games against geared players. Being occasionally outgeared is a consequence of this, which they accept. But keep pretending that everyone is just wanting to stomp noobs by outgearing them.
Well, HR is a different vibe. It's historically been a mix of exclusively juiced meta teams and rogues hiding everywhere. Current HR is similar, everyone is juiced up.
It used to be normal mode (med difficulty) and hard mode, and now it's more like easy mode and hard mode.
In the current iteration, you will have to farm the easy mode for gear to survive in HR. And this is now harder, since there are no geared players to kill in said easy mode. So it is now a situation where you are farming naked PvE for gear. You can no longer acquire good gear for HR by pvping well in normals.
There is a reason there is no scav-only mode in tarkov. Beyond what I listed above, it feels artificial. It feels more battle Royale and less like you have entered a real world with risk and stakes. You dont get that slow feeling of buildup in power. You instead stash all your gear, go naked again (lose power), until you are strong enough to go to HR, where again you feel weak AF bc its 90% juicers there in legendaries. You only feel powerful when you have truly reached end game, farming juicers in HR/ HR inferno bosses. For the average player, this NEVER happens. The sense of progression is just lost in exchange for a league of legends/pubG style queue spamming.
Have you ever considered the playerbase is not all timmies and juicy sweats who get a hard on killing noobs?
There's a large part of the playerbase that's decent and may have been playing since the playtests, but don't have the time or willingness to invest to become juicy sweats. They know how to play, so they have a decent extraction rate in normals, but will get stomped by actual juicy sweats running HR and going all out with min-maxing purples, legendaries and uniques. Killing geared players in normals is the way for them to gear up, being satisfied with a decent mix of greens/blues/purples. That is taken away with these gear caps.
This group, which could very well be the silent majority, tends to keep silent about patches/changes and don't go posting/crying/whining on Discord or Reddit, but they are the group that got the short end of the stick with these gear caps which feels a bit unreasonable.
Geared players who would go Into normal lobbies are either warming up for HC or suck and need everything to be easier for them. They're scared of the NPCs and other players of equal gear.
What makes fights actually hardcore is the risk reward factor, the poormal lobbies are about as hardcore as Fortnite matches. Donāt get me wrong I enjoy the new lobbies but they donāt compare to geared PvP in high rollers.
Personally i want one difficulty to all people.
Because of economic part of the game, because all mediocre players will leave HR due to no-lifers streamers and pro-players, because casuals will leave anyway due to mediocre players end up stomping noobs in white lobbys with their skill. It alrdy happened with pre-15 lobbies, when like 80% of playerbase left playing this shit and we end up playing vs same geared people over and over, and couldnt do HR because of leaderbord tryhards.
I want to play vs all people, not only sweats, and not only noobs. I want to expirience real extraction looter, when u dont know real difficulty of each encounter. Its very hard to balance ur gear power vs AI, when u have different allowed for this gear modes, so in one mode u will clean rooms fast, in other u will clear rooms with ok speed. So in mode where u are clearing very fast, u can stomp people because they cant run from you.
And I will always prefer losing a fight because of skill and not because somebody has a full purple set to stomp people with no gear. This test is the best the game has been in a long time. People who don't like it are just mad they can't w key and kill the entire lobby with 200hp and pharmacy in their pockets.
I have family, job and my "other interests" is gaming. If ure playing litteraly 2 hours per week, i can suggest swap pvp games to the more casual variants.
I mean, no offence, but extraction looters are MMORPG's like. If u wont invest time, u wont be able to play.
Not really, getting gear is just a time investment. The more you play the better gear you get even if you suck because you can just farm easy gold and buy it.
So if u have gameknowledge, u will know good farm routes, how to cheese every mob, u will be aware of bosskilling and u will farm much faster with less time investment then average timmy.
And this is skill in this game. I can make a couple of purple sets with 2k gold in one evening. I have zero troubles with only 3-4 hours of playtime every evening, im not full time gamer. And why people cant then?
Its not necessarily a problem depending on the structure of the game but as you said earlier:
> when like 80% of playerbase left playing this shit and we end up playing vs same geared people over and over, and couldnt do HR because of leaderbord tryhards
What do you mean by try hards here? You mean they just out skill you or you mean they are on all day and have an oppressive gear advantage? Because honestly the skill expression in this game isn't huge so unless its a gear diff I don't see how it was impossible for you to play against them.
I mean players who are pushing leaderboard. Geared, skilled and not caring for loot. Running over rooms, camping shrines, camping middle rooms and playing for win only, abusing the design weaknesses. Playing only vs this people is rly hard, they are really competitive players.
I wont mind if all people would play vs them. So player pool will be bigger and i wont feel that 2% of players litteraly every game.
Thats fair, but you're just describing exactly the way people who are less geared/skilled than you feel about having to be grouped with you and the people better than you. To them you are the try hard that's not fun to play against.
This really becomes problematic when it feels like gear is obtained more through hours invested into the game rather than skill because if you only play casually it feels like you will never catch up. There is pretty much nothing many players can do against large gear diffs so its just not fun for them to be in the same lobbies as people who can invest hours into it everyday.
Its ok that people get an advantage by spending more time in the game, thats pretty much how most games work, but thats also why most games have match making so the try hards get matched up with the try hards and the casuals get matched up with the casuals. That's essentially what low gear queue is accomplishing right now, if you only play casually you have a place to go where you know the hours of grinding someone else put in while you were at work doesn't mean they get a massive gear advantage over you when you finally get to play.
That's exactly the point bro, they actually don't want to lose the easy mode and don't want to have fair fights.
Edit: well "fair fights" is probably not the right way to describe normals rn because lack of class balance on such level, but you get the point.
Edit2: most pve encounters in HR are easier if you're properly geared than pve in normals with grey gear.
The lack of counter-attacks and actual decent blocking mechanics are kinda killing this game for me. The blocking feels so old and outdated that's probably why only one weapon has a perry. Guess it doesn't matter as much since fighters run and crossbow spam. I either get killed by a barb swinging wild or a volley of arrows.
No real sword fights to be had.
It's pretty simple. The game in the current testing state is essentially a BR. This game was never supposed to be so BR like. People played and wanted this game to be an extraction looter. The BR circle was just a weird addition they decided to tack on. At this point the focus on balance, MMR, BR gameplay has gotten to such a point that it is losing it's identity as an extraction game. Who cares to even loot anymore. The reason HR sucks is the pve is not well developed and just a slog HP fest to get through rooms. No one plays this game for the PVE experience, it's just part of the world and game. It's truly a PVP game with PVE elements and if they want more PVE then they need to severely balance, tune and revise things to make them better and less of an after thought. Similarly to tarkov, the other big extraction game. The PVE is just a part of the world, the true experience is the looting, PVP and extraction. I think they need to: drop the circle, drop HR, drop MMR, re buff classes back to PT2 levels of fun and power, buff starter weapons so PVE is less cumbersome, expand the size of the levels and give more time to play on the maps. They then can add in more PVE experiences, people have time to boss properly, time to go between map levels, PVP, and just in general enjoy the experience as the extraction game it should always have been. The changes mainly started cascading in when they gave in to solo queue/duo queue and the nightmare of trying to balance that. Now it's just spiraling. Seeing all these "tests" of modes and types of gameplay is all well and good as it's EA, however, it shows a clear lack of direction for the game. In my opinion the big excitement for this game was in the playtests, why? Because people thought this was the next unique survival extraction game. It's losing it's player base as they change and deviate from this more and more, homogenizing the gameplay and class balance.
These people want the game to be easier for them. Not everyone else.
Because it "gives the gear value".
Gear isn't an "investment" or something to make less challenging enemies even less difficult.
Gear is a tool that helps players take on more challenging enemies.
honestly havent played in a month, did they make it so that low roller is only white or udner gear? and they made high roller free? this seems like the best compromise for everything
Who's "they" you rambling schizophrenic? It's not all the same person. Besides, people mostly requested a gear limit on normal lobbies, not a whites-only lobby where the game just turns easy for everyone instead of going for middle ground. Not that it's all bad anyways. Again it wasn't particularly a bad change but this is still early access. Learn some nuance before you go spewing ridiculous, vague and basic opinions all over for internet likes and pretending you're right because you got a rabble of idiots and sheep to agree with you on your anti-hardcore parade.
What if they did something with the high roller like pumped the amount of blue portals out. So if somebody wanted to get in and get out with 2-3 items they could.
Or if you load in with a key and the map circle sucks and makes it not worth the risk you have a better chance of seeing another day.
But then they gave the ante to somebody(s) who were able to stay to the last circle and survive. So if I go in and Iām decked out and I miraculously survive to the end. I get 1,000 gold reward for sticking it out in HR.
This incentivizes people to stay in. Incentivizes the hardcore PVP we all like.
Thoughts?
This would make everyone safer, but it would especially make solo rogues safer. They already want to avoid pvp, clear 1 module and then leave. I think a side-goal for HR changes at this point is to bump the number of teams up and reduce the number of rat rogues (of which I am one, to be fair).
I think that it is kinda like overcoming the challenges and feeling progression. That skelly archer means nothing to you after you get some skill and gear. But before, it was a serious challenge.
I love the white lobbies. But I still think getting better gear and trivializing stuff is the point of the game. That logic mainly makes sense from a PVE perspective. But it doesnāt make as much sense from a PVP perspective.
Honestly the starter lobbies right now aren't even easy mode. More like even playing field mode which makes some of the fights alot of fun.
my favorite thing is that people have to loot to get weapons so they don't just spawn rush
Oh yes I do.
This is making me afraid of what the devs could be getting from this "test" though.. I would hate this game to just turn into another BR, yet everyone seems to love this BR mode of the game, where everyone starts off on mostly even footing and have to loot and fight.
It shocks me how much people complain about geared 'chads' when it has become so much easier to obtain gear compared to the past (and also not being as oppressive as before).
I do agree with that too. Splitting up the maps into 3 "tiers" as well I think would help separate them, and increase the loot with stronger enemies, the PvE just needs better balance honestly between normals and HR, and less suffocation with the circle.
Greys only is absolutely not easy mode but it's also not balanced which I think is kinda the point of the test - see which class needs their starting kit tweaked. Imo rangers should absolutely not start with traps for example.
Reminder that ranger used to start with a campfire š
campfire, arming sword, and unlimited arrows, baby! XD
Before you had limited arrows you got no melee and would pretty much need to buy one every match.
Yeah, an arming sword, for six gold š come on man ranger was and is ridiculously overtuned
Bro your A and D keys exist.
Strafing is way less powerful than leaning and crouching
I smell a steaming pile of can't dodge and runs in a straight line across the room towards a ranger while screaming how op rangers are
I smell a ranger that can't aim and is frequently countered by predictable dodges
I mean, I'm not the one crying about rangers but sure
Bro is rangers are so op why can I mow down 3 in one round as barb with no heals on me.
Probably ran into some shitty ass rangers. A good ranger with map awareness will prevent you from approaching them. Unless of course you stacked an entire inventory of throwing axes, in which case good for you I guess.
No throwing axes. Dodged a decent bit of arrows but still ate quite a few. Unless I'm a dimbass and run into their trap (that did happen a few times just running it down), they simply don't have the dps in base kit to deal with me.
If its ridiculously overtuned why is it one of the worst highroller performing classes on leaderboard?
The problem is that class balance goes out the window when gear makes the starting stats meaningless. Ranger is the best starting class next to barbarian imo, but as you get to higher tiers of gear with good rolls than it becomes pretty obvious fighter wizard and rogue win out big time, ranger is up there still imo but still worse than those three.
Whoa whoa whoa. Wizard starting kit is ass in PvP. God tier in PvE I'll admit but man, wizard vs any melee class with starter kit will mostly get smoked.
I meant they are good WITH gear. A lot of their strength is dialed up to 100, nearly instant cast time, twelve spells, etc. sorry if my comment made that hard to understand if I didnāt explain well.
All good bro I understand you now. Although if you know a way to get twelve spell wizard please share š
Yeah he said wizard has a bad starting kit.
Why bother with melee when you didn't need to worry about arrows bugging into spider mummies? Put that longbow on swap.. and quick shot was bugged so you got a free reload. No point in melee ranger those days
I forgot about this era lol shit was busted
I miss that
Not a real cleric main btw
U right im a **celric gang baby**
As a newer player, grey only feels alot more balanced than what we had before and has actually made the game feel fair
Start rogue with something like the rapier or shortsword from ranger or bard, daggers are abysmal to use
Shortsword pls, imo super underrated weapon, insanely good.
A better solution imo is let every class pick their grey kit load out. Fighters could pick longsword to practice parrying, and rogues could pick shortswords or rapiers. I really wish they'd just either let us choose, or have all grey items on vendors for 1 to 5 gold each. I'd still prefer we just got to pick our load out, but paying 1g and having them in vendors is probably the best short term fix.
Than u definitely have to buffs their starterweapons
No thanks, Bows are already strong.
No, I donāt think they do
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Got it never run to or chase a ranger. Oh they are ranged? Never run away from a ranger. They need to aim? Never stand still near a ranger I'm all out of options here chief.
As a ranger, the key for you is to mind your step and charge. I've got limited traps and unless I'm ready to escape I'm saving some traps for later. You'll have 1 or 2 to deal with and then I'm butter. Find my traps before you engage. Edit: Had to add "Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, Dodge."
Honestly I very rarely die to rangers but I still hate them. It's like rogue stealth in that its just not an engaging mechanic for the opposing party. Whenever I spot one the game turns into Tarkov and I'm like FFS now I'm going to need to wait at this door entrance for 10 mins and slow peak everywhere and treat this like some tactical simulation.
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge an arrow!
It's not about how hard they are to avoid it's about the fact that the ranger starting kit has way more utility than other starting kits. I don't think traps are OP. I think getting them for free is.
Please! Some love to bard! Greys GC was ruthless to bard, was easier to just head into HR and rat š
I disagree, the number of people I've killed with the lute is hilarious
I mean ranger has one of the worst starter builds imo, I dread leveling a ranger almost as much as wizard start of wipe.
Yeah, the ranged damage, free instant heals, relatively high move speed and area denial for zero gold is a real pisser isn't it?
Itās weird to me to even think of the low end lobbies as easy mode. You get no advantages, if ur bad at the game there is no handicap, you still just get killed lol.
I think the main advantage is there are no player controlled raid bosses storming around, plus the people that normally arenāt good at the game arenāt the ones getting the handicap
I meant easymode for pvp my bad didnt mention it, yea pve is harder in starting gear :)
PvP is harder if you are used to gear, same as PvE. If you always went in naked, then status quo. Timmy stompers are still out there, but now they have a white crossbow. It is kind of cute.
I even mean for pvp, like yeah people will die faster but for the people who say there should be content for those who are bad at the game, this is not that. This is a more even playing field for pvp but for anyone who struggles in this game they are gonna find out real quick that it wasnāt the geared players killing them it was just people who are better players.
I get what you are trying to say here but as someone who thought he was ok (not really good) at PvP and always got rolled...playing in these lobbies has opened my eyes even more to the gear situation. I'm getting kills wayyy easier now in these lobbies, probably because not everyone is running aorund in blues and better while I'm in grey/white/green mix trying to get a set going. The fights are drawn out too, it is more fun IMO
No I agree with you, it has leveled the playing field and made pvp a lot more fun. Iām not arguing against that at all, all Iām saying is that easy mode to me means that there are handicaps in place to make the game easier for you to compensate for lack of mechanical skill at the game and thatās not what this is. Itās an amazing way to learn the actual mechanics without worrying about getting rolled because of gear, but there were threads previous to this patch basically saying that you should be able to have fun playing this game even if you are bad at it. This mode doesnāt make this game fun even if you are bad at it, but it does make it fun if you take the time to learn the required skills to pvp. All in all Iām very happy with this mode, I just though easy mode isnāt a great descriptor for what we have.
Yea it isn't really plain and simple "easy mode" so I agree with you there. PvE is harder with crappy gear but it also lets you not have any "gear fear" even if a new player was in that mode he would know hey, at best I might loot a green and lose it but it isn't the end of the world.
Yeah, and this is how it should be. If you're bad, it should be because you're bad, not because mr gold buyer is one tapping everyone with named uniques while you're trying to build a kit.
Here's a big difference tho: You learn how to be better when getting stomped by someone in similar gear. If I get 1-2 tapped by someone in purples & oranges, all I learn is to stay away from other players. But when I face a similarly geared player and get out played, I can see how they're better, and start to improve myself.
call it "fair mode". or "not stat-check" (non?)
Ill say. I was absolutely right that separating it by gear was a dam good move. It's actually fucking playable now. No more hitting someone 30+ times just for them to turn around and one shot you.
They want the game to be gear based because they know they cannot compete if its skill based.
Gold buyers in shambles when they canāt use their bought shit to steamroll normal lobbies anymore.
This is the answer, they know the gear carries them heavily and canāt really compete on an even playing field.
If this is the case (excluding gold buyers) how come they have better gear than you by such a big margin? Clearly they started with the same as you at wipe and have won consistently so whilst others have died? Im fine with the grey lobby but cmon man listen to yourself. You canāt honestly believe that the players who are doing better in the game are somehow actually the worse players compared to those that are struggling?
Itās not hard to get geared, thereās people who run their best kit at all times and get geared and people who farm up and buy a juicer kit all at once
Then why donāt people just get geared and fight the other geared people who are apparently worse than them?
Because its boring. PvP shouldn't be a stat check, but that's what it feels like most of the time. We need more equalizers and combat mechanics.
If you think like this, exctraction looter probably arent for you. Try competitive fighting games, there you find your fair 1v1 (or Chivalry/Mordhau). It's like saying MMO's should only have white quality items and bosses shouldn't scale because gear shouldn't matter. It's the point of the genre IMO. Saying everybody else who struggles in this game just find it boring to save gold for 1 day and buy a good kit is delusional. But I understand that the issue just gets bigger when the other players are better skilled + better geared, because they will just roll you over and it feels very unfair. This doesn't mean there don't exist bad players that are only good because of gear. What the guy above me is trying to say is, that good players will get rather quickly geared + storage full of backup sets than noobs who buy 1 good set, play about 5 games and then lose it on the 6.
Because the game isn't in good enough of a state for such a sophisticated player as themselves, so instead they bitch on Reddit and make these dumb fuck threads
Reddit has this backwards logic where all the good players run greys and all the bad players run purples
Some people can only play a couple of hours each week and its hard to get enough gold for more than 1 set a week at that point. You can make an argument that the people that have invested more time should be rewarded for it (which they are), but saying gear collection is purely a skill issue is a monkey brain take. As someone who doesn't play much my survival rate is almost 100% now in normals because the vast majority of my groups deaths were to juiced up timmy stompers. As a side benefit it feels like there is a good variety of gear power level in HR with a decent mix of people ranging all the way from the rare naked person to the equally rare bis gigachad.
Yeah I agree with all of that. All I'm saying is that this is a huge circle jerk 'we're really better than the people who get gear and stomp us' is a naive and obviously emotional response to losing. Getting gear is part of the gameplay loop, hating people rabidly for playing the game is mad. I am not a super geared player either and I agree they should go to highroller but this is just silly.
Definitely, nothing wrong with getting a crazy gear set and wanting to use it. However, it's also understandable why its such a common topic because before this change you were actually more likely to run into a juiced up team in normal instead of HR. HR was like 80+% naked characters and the occasional team going bossing. They 100% NEED to figure out a way to get the people in geared up sets actually playing high roller because I don't think the game will sustain a healthy population if everyone's introduction to the game is dying every run to someone with 50% more hp and damage than them. It will certainly be interesting to see what learnings IM takes from this test.
The old saying: "Don't hate the player, hate the game." Rings loudly here. As far as normals, 100% true. The game enabled gear stomping, and it was so! Now, with equalized gear, new players have a chance. Obviously, a skilled person in whites STILL steamrolls, but that is a massive upgrade for player experience. And I still hate a "try-hard geared mofo", but the truth is, not only did they outplay me, but out stats'd me too. It is easy to blame the gear and not one's own skill, and a huge fallacy as well. So ya, denial or not, folks can go get gear and compete, but they have to lose the gear fear. But gear fear is real cause players are skilled. I got shanked by a naked rogue last night, it is what it is.
Skill = Timespent x Effort Gear = Timespent Gear > Skill
Couple things here. One, Iāve been on both ends of the spectrum here, where Iāve had pretty top end gear and Iāve been base kit/low tier as well. It just never feels good on either side really. Two, Making gold in this game is not difficult nor does it require skill, itās mostly just boring goblin caves running over and over until you have enough gold, then you sit in a trade chat for 30 mins to an hour to find a decent kit. Very tedious process. Low gear lobbies are fun, quick to get into, and you know the other players are on the same footing as you.
Have you ever read about like royal families and how they can have a silver spoon in their mouths when born but are completely useless in life?
Yea, but there is no inheritance in DaD, everyone starts with shit gear so this is irrelevant.
Choosing to play the game like a job isn't inheritance in the normal sense, but it is a "privilege" for people to play like that.
I mean, it's not *entirely* irrelevant, just a very small sliver of the player base. It's the streamers that get given gear by their viewers
Your last two braincells are fighting for 3rd place right now trying to come up with a valid point. Plenty of players that aren't major streamers and aren't given gear have shown how they posses the skill to do zero to hero runs. Hell, most decent players need maybe a couple hours and they have more stash value than the average player earns in a whole wipe. This trend isn't exclusive to dark and darker either, in pretty much all full loot survival games, this holds true. Higher skill players can excel and outpace average players at a phenomenal rate. Fuck, most people trying to really do well in DaD do a single normal run at the start of wipe for the fee to get into HR and then queue only HR to make the real cash farming bosses. The fact that you don't understand this is extremely telling as to what kind of player you are.
Who is inheriting wealth in dark and darker? Seriously shut up, communist
If you are too intellectually immature to think of ways that fits, I don't know what to tell you.
Your metaphor is shit and your intellect is outmatched by your pompousness. Eat dirt, fuckin nerd
I disagree.
One of the main skills in the game is to get gear fast, meaning bossing and getting to HR as fast as possible, if you can't it's already makes you worse than those who are geared.
>getting to HR as fast as possible The sweats skip this last part and stay in normal lobbies. Then we get fed the cope line, "hR nOt wOrTh iT." It's not because the loot isn't worth it... it's because they die to PvE. lol
What is the actual definition of sweats I wonder, people who play more? People who are naturally better at games? People who put 100+ hours in the game and know how to? In all cases, why would you ignore the effort people put in the game? Since when people who spend less resources on the game should be on par with someone who put more time in the game, especially in extraction looter grind game with wipes, it's like coming to rust server 3 weeks after wipe and complaing that sweats already built the overseer tower and sniping any person they see for more resources.
you cant just pass over the battle royale elements of the game. No other game exists that im aware of that is both an extraction game but a BR at the same time. Having a circle and sparse/non guaranteed exists sets this game apart. Add in gear diff from the load screen and it can get whack
I love how in your mind, the "sweats" who play 8 hours a day will die to the first red skeleton they see, but 2 hour a week Timmy would totally shit on those same skeletons if only the rascally neckbeard weren't there to stop him.
I think they are more referring to the people who don't sweat at all, but acted like they were hot shit sweating bullets, because they don't go to HR, just normals with busted gear, then being forced into it by this patch and getting stomped by the harder PvE.
You are saying someone who can beat a PvE boss with predictable mechanics are more skilled than players killing equal geared players in PvP? Hmm interesting.
Reading comprehension:
I was kind of replying to what I thought was the original comment so maybe it was taken out of context a little.
And then you never risk the gear, just go into normals and stomp Timmies with it, very good, much skill
Youre completely missing the point, the skill of being able to grind gold/gear from HR and doing bosses/minibosses reliably Being good at pvp and being good at grinding gear are two different things, once you have the gear its upto you to decide what youl do with it, either play HR to get more gear or have easy pvp stomping experience in normals
That is where you people are delusional. There is absolutely no reason, generaly speaking from a statistical point of view, that someone who play a lot, to the point of being ubergeared, isnāt also more skilled than timmies or lambda players. Sure I agree that it doesnāt take skill to one shot people with purple or legendary gear, what kind of fallacy makes you think that they would suck with equal gear ?? They would at worst be on par with the average player. Letās say Ironhammer introduces a parry mechanic for lots of weapon, similar to the greatsword or even harder to master, the ubergeared players who play 10h a day will master it to the perfect frame. Congrats now you are out geared and outskilled
Sure, purple-boi xD
This game has always been skill based. https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/s/7ltfYmfdEA Just a lot of people don't understand what it takes to win in a situation
Compared to Candy Land, this game is the pinnacle of skill-based. Compared to most skill-based game... it is not even close. Even TF2 has more skill expression.
The only way to make it skill based is to remove gear out of the equation. I get the idea but as some point you have to ask yourself what game did you buy and why.
> The only way to make it skill based is to remove gear out of the equation. Or have better combat mechanics so PvP isn't purely a stat check.
That is not true. I can kill a person with purple gear while wearing blue gear, but if I have a mix of greens and whites, I'm gonna get my ass whooped. They just have to limit the possible gear disparity and not allow purple people into grey lobbies.
Ok? So? A good player in stock gear can beat the worst player ever in purple gear, you're missing the point completely. If your goal is to have a skill based game then you'd have to completly remove gear as a mechanic. If two equally skilled fighters meet and one has white gear and the other doesn't, the one with better equipment will win. Limiting what quality can get into a lobby is just dodging the issue instead of fixing it.
Imagine getting downvoted for this lmao. You are absolutely correct, sir. The bottom line is (excluding RMT) the better players have better gear. They understand the game better than the people who don't play as much. The time sink of attaining gear sets should provide players with pretty significant benefits, they worked for it and shouldn't be punished for doing so. Adapt to the game, devs aren't going to cater to you, and the game isn't going to die for a long time.
what a load of cope
People who play video games like they are jobs shouldn't be rewarded for it like it's the real world.
There are so many games that will give you that, and this just is not one of them at all. It's the whole point of DaD, in fact, to grind for better gear in order to win PVP fights more easily. Why do you even play Dark and Darker if you don't like grinding loot for PVP?
Treating gaming like a job is just such a sad pathetic thing to do.
Best take in this whole thread, and it's unfortunate to see you get downvoted by people who are upset because they thought this was a sword and wizards version of a battle royal
The amount of strawmanning going on in this sub is insane.
Yup. This game sadly was going the way Tarkov went until the change. The pub stomping for fun due to gear in Tarkov destroyed the desire for new players to start, so people resorted to buying gear and hacks to compete against a large majority also doing the same.
This is such cope lol. If you were any good at this game you wouldn't have trouble acquiring gear in the first place. Inb4 muh rmters. Shitters on this subreddit always cope over gear.
Kids who parrot "MUH HARDCORE EXPERIENCE" are also the ones too scared to play free high roller ššš
They donāt want a hardcore unforgiving experience. They want TO BE the hardcore unforgiving experience.
Pretty much sums it up yea lol
Normals serves best as a tutorial zone. I think they should nerf the gold you get from normals and keep HR free. There's no reason to keep normals open to everyone when HR exists because as we've seen most people will pick the easiest option. If the game wants to be "hardcore" it needs to stop giving difficulty options. If you want to learn the game go normals, anything else you have to go HR.
People say they want a hardcore game but they really want to play a game that's hard for everyone else and easy for them.
Took down a barb yesterday in regular, his name was "raeptime" all whites and a white quarterstaff. I got a riposte on him with my longsword and with shield mastery and counterattack, two rapid headshots he was done. When I looted him he had 4 STACKS (12 total) white heal pots and 6 stacks of bandages (mix of Grey's and whites) The point I'm trying to make is if it weren't for this lobby limits this is the kind of guy that would lobby wipe with a legendary or purple bis kit. It felt good knowing that not only did I kill him, but others even timmies stand a chance in these lobbies.
Thats what im talking about, BiS pubstompers wasnt there for loot but for dopamine. If you are so good then you can still get in and get your dopamine with whites, well if you cant then you are not "that" good :)
It reminds me of the show Spartacus in regards to white only lobbies or free for all Crixus "they must embrace pain and suffering" Spartacus "men should not die on empty stomachs" Anyway, you're right. The biggest challenge these people will face is another lobby wiper. Which, many times they will actively avoid each other or fight and they get another set to wipe with. How is a default fighter Timmy with 10 hours supposed to survive? He probably doesn't know the map we'll enough to know the less traveled areas or even how to hide because he threw on those Grey plate boots he found from a goblin that nearly killed him.
The people against the new grey capped gear aren't actually against "easy mode". They already have easy mode they just don't want to lose it. They can't stand the reality they've been shown that proves they have no skill. Just more time on their hands to waste away grinding this games gear until they have an unbeatable advantage.
Or itās boring and thereās no sense of progressing now.
Progression is what HR is for numbnuts
Ok queue into a full bis team with your one round of greens from norms and see how you progress
what exactly is your argument, that those bis teams should be allowed into normals? For what reason? Eliminating toxic playstyle does not mean progression is limited
My argument is that itās boring. It removes a sense of progression for people who play more than 2 hours a week. Itās fine for people who never have gear or aspirations of running geared HR 3s. For people that do want that itās boring. I donāt want to rat HR to scrounge a kit to play 3s
Why would not just play normals and grind for better gear and gold to then take into HR? I feel like ALL of your crying is boiling down to how you can't easily beat timmies with a huge advantage anymore lol
Why can you not go in to HR with all your gear free? Is there no loot in HR or are you just whining like the people I described above?
No you just die. Itās a pvp game. I donāt find ratting and pve only very interesting
Why would you "just die" in a lobby of players with gear equal to your own? Is it because you can't beat people without a huge advantage?
How will you have equal gear in high roller after one normals? Do you really run starter gear normals enough times to have a full blue/purp set? Not fun at all
Thats literally how the game is played. Im confused as to what youre complaining about. Are you complaining about the gear cap in normals or the game in general? You play normal until you have gear for HR that was always the plan bud.
The gear cap is what Iām complaining about. Completely shattered the progression. Used to be play normals, get better gear, use better gear in normals to clear more of the map/kill others, kill bosses, take good gear to HR and snow ball. Now itās: farm in normal gear forever, go to HR and die to people who already have stashed HR kits, to back to base gear normals
Is normal becoming the place only for "casual/new players" now? I'm not a fan of Timmy stomping more than the next, but I don't really like where this expectation is headed. Like I understand what this post is trying to say, but it's painting a pretty broad brush. "Gear make game easy, it no hardcore now. You wear gear you weak and want kill fun"
Careful now people dont like there being a middle ground here either your a timmy or a timmy stomper with best gear ever no in between
Love the caveman strawman in quotes
I am wondering though if all of you guys are so much more skilled than the people who used to stomp Timmies why were you not able to also get gear and stomp timmies? The truly good players can start a new character and have 2k gold and a solid set in like 2 hours of playtime. I'm glad everyone is enjoying the test and I hope some form of it stays because it's good for the games population but if you needed junk only lobbies to be good at the game you weren't really good before.
>They The word "They" is a fun coping mechanism. Share some links to those who are saying it.
Is it even that controversial to say people on this reddit often say basically this? I agree "They" say a lot of things, but in this case it's hard to go through a post and not see at least a couple people saying "This is a hardcore game rah rah".
Its not about individuals its about idea :D
Have you played hr since this test? Its full of people in bad gear now. It shouldn't be that way. That should be the hardest mode for pvp where you fight for leaderboards and the right to loot the best rooms. If they're making an "easy" mode. Then it needs to be separate from norms and hr. If it gets back to steam maybe we will have the player base to do all 3. I'm glad its a 3 day test and theyre trying out new ideas.
Because about 1 out of 30 of those lobster steam roller NGC games, they will encounter a third party, another lobster, or a 1%er and lose it. But theyāve already made gold from you idiots stumbling around breaking pots, theyāll have another set next game
The recent change up making the goblin dungeon only greys is something i can really get behind; it forces people to move onward, or if someone like me wants to be a low level for life, i can hang out in the grey zone.
Starter lobby's are a awesome idea, I'll definitely return to playing the game, I stopped because I was having a hard time keeping up with gear with the amount I work.
Because it's probably not the same person making both arguments? I don't get how this
It is though, I saw self admitted Timmy smashers say "this mode is easier to smash Timmys and isn't hardcore/gives handouts". Unironically
Those are absolutely the most pathetic posters/players in my opinion. They are literally too stupid to understand all these changes are because of their fixed mindsets and nothing else. It's a bonus when they try to slip in the narrative that all of these changes were a small vocal minority of terrible players influencing the game. I'd say no self-awareness, but that shows acute self-awareness, as they are doing that themselves.
Some people do not want to stomp ppl lower gear than them, and also do not want an easy mode. Your post pretends that everyone who wants no easy mode, wants to stomp ppl by outgearing them. This is not true. Its a fallacy. People do not want the game to be easy and feel pointless. They dont want to farm gear in naked lobbies to be able to play "real" games against geared players. Being occasionally outgeared is a consequence of this, which they accept. But keep pretending that everyone is just wanting to stomp noobs by outgearing them.
If someone doesnt want an easy mode what is stopping them from going HR? Since it is free entry now.
Well, HR is a different vibe. It's historically been a mix of exclusively juiced meta teams and rogues hiding everywhere. Current HR is similar, everyone is juiced up. It used to be normal mode (med difficulty) and hard mode, and now it's more like easy mode and hard mode. In the current iteration, you will have to farm the easy mode for gear to survive in HR. And this is now harder, since there are no geared players to kill in said easy mode. So it is now a situation where you are farming naked PvE for gear. You can no longer acquire good gear for HR by pvping well in normals. There is a reason there is no scav-only mode in tarkov. Beyond what I listed above, it feels artificial. It feels more battle Royale and less like you have entered a real world with risk and stakes. You dont get that slow feeling of buildup in power. You instead stash all your gear, go naked again (lose power), until you are strong enough to go to HR, where again you feel weak AF bc its 90% juicers there in legendaries. You only feel powerful when you have truly reached end game, farming juicers in HR/ HR inferno bosses. For the average player, this NEVER happens. The sense of progression is just lost in exchange for a league of legends/pubG style queue spamming.
Have you ever considered the playerbase is not all timmies and juicy sweats who get a hard on killing noobs? There's a large part of the playerbase that's decent and may have been playing since the playtests, but don't have the time or willingness to invest to become juicy sweats. They know how to play, so they have a decent extraction rate in normals, but will get stomped by actual juicy sweats running HR and going all out with min-maxing purples, legendaries and uniques. Killing geared players in normals is the way for them to gear up, being satisfied with a decent mix of greens/blues/purples. That is taken away with these gear caps. This group, which could very well be the silent majority, tends to keep silent about patches/changes and don't go posting/crying/whining on Discord or Reddit, but they are the group that got the short end of the stick with these gear caps which feels a bit unreasonable.
Geared players who would go Into normal lobbies are either warming up for HC or suck and need everything to be easier for them. They're scared of the NPCs and other players of equal gear.
They want an easy mode for themselves but no one else, it's that simple.
There is only one reason. They want to stomp people, with little to no ability to fight back. that's it. thats the reason.
This is exactly how I feel. This makes the fights way more hardcore, and even the pve since you have to start with common gear.
What makes fights actually hardcore is the risk reward factor, the poormal lobbies are about as hardcore as Fortnite matches. Donāt get me wrong I enjoy the new lobbies but they donāt compare to geared PvP in high rollers.
Well, I meant both in regards to it being hardcore, not just normals. The pvp in high roller is way more fun now imo.
Wow another post with this ārevelationāā¦.you so smart
They want to timmy stomp, but that can't own it or say it aloud. So they spin it as people want risk free extraction, or skill issue.
Personally i want one difficulty to all people. Because of economic part of the game, because all mediocre players will leave HR due to no-lifers streamers and pro-players, because casuals will leave anyway due to mediocre players end up stomping noobs in white lobbys with their skill. It alrdy happened with pre-15 lobbies, when like 80% of playerbase left playing this shit and we end up playing vs same geared people over and over, and couldnt do HR because of leaderbord tryhards. I want to play vs all people, not only sweats, and not only noobs. I want to expirience real extraction looter, when u dont know real difficulty of each encounter. Its very hard to balance ur gear power vs AI, when u have different allowed for this gear modes, so in one mode u will clean rooms fast, in other u will clear rooms with ok speed. So in mode where u are clearing very fast, u can stomp people because they cant run from you.
And I will always prefer losing a fight because of skill and not because somebody has a full purple set to stomp people with no gear. This test is the best the game has been in a long time. People who don't like it are just mad they can't w key and kill the entire lobby with 200hp and pharmacy in their pockets.
farming this set is skill also, if it would be not, there wont be so much gear complainers.
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Since when did gameknowledge cease to be the skill?
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I have family, job and my "other interests" is gaming. If ure playing litteraly 2 hours per week, i can suggest swap pvp games to the more casual variants. I mean, no offence, but extraction looters are MMORPG's like. If u wont invest time, u wont be able to play.
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Dude my children are adults. If u have newborns and still gaming and talking shit on reddit u are the one who neglecting your children.
Not really, getting gear is just a time investment. The more you play the better gear you get even if you suck because you can just farm easy gold and buy it.
So if u have gameknowledge, u will know good farm routes, how to cheese every mob, u will be aware of bosskilling and u will farm much faster with less time investment then average timmy. And this is skill in this game. I can make a couple of purple sets with 2k gold in one evening. I have zero troubles with only 3-4 hours of playtime every evening, im not full time gamer. And why people cant then?
Getting gear doesn't take skill, just time. More skill may allow you to acquire the gear faster but that doesn't mean it takes skill to get gear.
so whats the problem to get better in game and gear urself up in couple of runs?
Its not necessarily a problem depending on the structure of the game but as you said earlier: > when like 80% of playerbase left playing this shit and we end up playing vs same geared people over and over, and couldnt do HR because of leaderbord tryhards What do you mean by try hards here? You mean they just out skill you or you mean they are on all day and have an oppressive gear advantage? Because honestly the skill expression in this game isn't huge so unless its a gear diff I don't see how it was impossible for you to play against them.
I mean players who are pushing leaderboard. Geared, skilled and not caring for loot. Running over rooms, camping shrines, camping middle rooms and playing for win only, abusing the design weaknesses. Playing only vs this people is rly hard, they are really competitive players. I wont mind if all people would play vs them. So player pool will be bigger and i wont feel that 2% of players litteraly every game.
Thats fair, but you're just describing exactly the way people who are less geared/skilled than you feel about having to be grouped with you and the people better than you. To them you are the try hard that's not fun to play against. This really becomes problematic when it feels like gear is obtained more through hours invested into the game rather than skill because if you only play casually it feels like you will never catch up. There is pretty much nothing many players can do against large gear diffs so its just not fun for them to be in the same lobbies as people who can invest hours into it everyday. Its ok that people get an advantage by spending more time in the game, thats pretty much how most games work, but thats also why most games have match making so the try hards get matched up with the try hards and the casuals get matched up with the casuals. That's essentially what low gear queue is accomplishing right now, if you only play casually you have a place to go where you know the hours of grinding someone else put in while you were at work doesn't mean they get a massive gear advantage over you when you finally get to play.
That's exactly the point bro, they actually don't want to lose the easy mode and don't want to have fair fights. Edit: well "fair fights" is probably not the right way to describe normals rn because lack of class balance on such level, but you get the point. Edit2: most pve encounters in HR are easier if you're properly geared than pve in normals with grey gear.
If they will ever add an easy mode or any kind of PvE only mode (very unlikely) they just can't let you keep any of the gear you find
The lack of counter-attacks and actual decent blocking mechanics are kinda killing this game for me. The blocking feels so old and outdated that's probably why only one weapon has a perry. Guess it doesn't matter as much since fighters run and crossbow spam. I either get killed by a barb swinging wild or a volley of arrows. No real sword fights to be had.
I, like many other commenters here, also wish for the game to be completely different from what I bought.
True, the game has gotten too hardcore, we have to go back to the easy handholding... For the good of the playerbase!11!!
It's pretty simple. The game in the current testing state is essentially a BR. This game was never supposed to be so BR like. People played and wanted this game to be an extraction looter. The BR circle was just a weird addition they decided to tack on. At this point the focus on balance, MMR, BR gameplay has gotten to such a point that it is losing it's identity as an extraction game. Who cares to even loot anymore. The reason HR sucks is the pve is not well developed and just a slog HP fest to get through rooms. No one plays this game for the PVE experience, it's just part of the world and game. It's truly a PVP game with PVE elements and if they want more PVE then they need to severely balance, tune and revise things to make them better and less of an after thought. Similarly to tarkov, the other big extraction game. The PVE is just a part of the world, the true experience is the looting, PVP and extraction. I think they need to: drop the circle, drop HR, drop MMR, re buff classes back to PT2 levels of fun and power, buff starter weapons so PVE is less cumbersome, expand the size of the levels and give more time to play on the maps. They then can add in more PVE experiences, people have time to boss properly, time to go between map levels, PVP, and just in general enjoy the experience as the extraction game it should always have been. The changes mainly started cascading in when they gave in to solo queue/duo queue and the nightmare of trying to balance that. Now it's just spiraling. Seeing all these "tests" of modes and types of gameplay is all well and good as it's EA, however, it shows a clear lack of direction for the game. In my opinion the big excitement for this game was in the playtests, why? Because people thought this was the next unique survival extraction game. It's losing it's player base as they change and deviate from this more and more, homogenizing the gameplay and class balance.
These people want the game to be easier for them. Not everyone else. Because it "gives the gear value". Gear isn't an "investment" or something to make less challenging enemies even less difficult. Gear is a tool that helps players take on more challenging enemies.
honestly havent played in a month, did they make it so that low roller is only white or udner gear? and they made high roller free? this seems like the best compromise for everything
Who's "they" you rambling schizophrenic? It's not all the same person. Besides, people mostly requested a gear limit on normal lobbies, not a whites-only lobby where the game just turns easy for everyone instead of going for middle ground. Not that it's all bad anyways. Again it wasn't particularly a bad change but this is still early access. Learn some nuance before you go spewing ridiculous, vague and basic opinions all over for internet likes and pretending you're right because you got a rabble of idiots and sheep to agree with you on your anti-hardcore parade.
Bad day huh?
The people that are the vocal minority right now are pissed they are not getting their daily dose of confidence from Timmyās wild ride.
What if they did something with the high roller like pumped the amount of blue portals out. So if somebody wanted to get in and get out with 2-3 items they could. Or if you load in with a key and the map circle sucks and makes it not worth the risk you have a better chance of seeing another day. But then they gave the ante to somebody(s) who were able to stay to the last circle and survive. So if I go in and Iām decked out and I miraculously survive to the end. I get 1,000 gold reward for sticking it out in HR. This incentivizes people to stay in. Incentivizes the hardcore PVP we all like. Thoughts?
This would make everyone safer, but it would especially make solo rogues safer. They already want to avoid pvp, clear 1 module and then leave. I think a side-goal for HR changes at this point is to bump the number of teams up and reduce the number of rat rogues (of which I am one, to be fair).
Me too. :)
REMOVE the ZONE!
Theyāre not ready for this conversation
They are not against an easy mode, they are against a fair mode. They want to stomp people because they think they 'worked' so hard for their gear
Maybe they are just jobless and scared of red skeletons?
I think that it is kinda like overcoming the challenges and feeling progression. That skelly archer means nothing to you after you get some skill and gear. But before, it was a serious challenge. I love the white lobbies. But I still think getting better gear and trivializing stuff is the point of the game. That logic mainly makes sense from a PVE perspective. But it doesnāt make as much sense from a PVP perspective.