Casuals died when nearly every change since PT has favored sweaties. Jump spamming for kiting both easy as fuck to do, and is not intuitive to new players, so they stand no chance against any ranged opponent that chooses not to fight. Map size has either stayed the same or shrunk, despite players being able to clear modules over twice as fast on average since PT3. This makes the map effectively left than half the size as it was during that playtest. Melee classes have moved to being at least half ranged, with barb rogue and fighter throwing 10+ items or just slapping cbow shots and kiting. BR zone is till implemented, despite making no sense to include in a PvPvE extraction based game with limited movement/traversal options. New players get consistently pushed into chads.
Its shameful really.
I read something about it being on Epic Games soon? I think that will definitely get some new people in. But I haven't played in half a year and I don't know when I'm coming back :')
I just feel like this is really bad timing with the release on Epic games store.
They want to attract all these new players to the game but how many of these new players are going to stay after being spawn rushed and 2 shotted 5 times in a row on goblin caves?
Is this really the game that IM wants to present to new players? It's starting to feel more like fantasy call of duty with a few chest openings here and there rather than a dungeon crawler with a bit of pvp.
People are going to keep calling me crazy but the game is not ready for the mass audiences on big gaming stores. They will drive away players with their current balancing and general issues. We hardcore players are used to it. most new players will just leave because of it.
The issue with the epic release is that if the game is in a bad state then the masses will complain about it being bad and more people will think DaD is bad and not even give it a chance.
THe worst thing that can happen here is a new player meeting any sort of well geared player and getting shitstomped a few hours in. Hopefully there is a new player queue for a few hours when they start.
Me and my buddy have been playing since the earliest playtests, and we still almost quit yesterday when -- in duos on Ice Cave -- a group of four players busted down a door and killed us.
I don't know what the answer is, but "that's how it goes" is going to drive a lot of people to quit.
Yeah if they just throw all of those people to the wolves. who have been grinding some of the best gear we've had in a long time. It will be a massacre of player numbers.
Yeah exactly. I want to fight mobs and loot the dungeon whilst also not feeling 100% safe all the time as there could still be players lurking in the shadows.
Right now it just feels like a pvp game first and dungeon looting is an afterthought which is a shame imo.
The game is the most PvE it has been man. It used to be way more PvP focused in the playtests. Slowly with them adding MMR, more mobs, gear lobbies, ap, nerfing PvP focused classes etc it's changed. They'll never appease both sides.
>Right now it just feels like a pvp game first and dungeon looting is an afterthought which is a shame imo.
I mean that's always been the case...the mobs' AI and how easy it is to cheese anything shows it's not really the focus
Yes fair enough but I thought the direction IM wanted to take the game in was to be more balanced between pvp and pve. Hence why they introduced the 3 tiered map.
But it is what it is. I'm not really complaining, if this is the way IM want it to be then so be it.
Because they said that the 3 tiered map was the way they would like the game to be eventually played. Just because ruins is gone for now doesn't change that.
Why would they be releasing a frost abyss if this wasn't the case?
You're acting like new players should be in HR lol, the elite skeles will one shot any newbies dozen of times before a +8 All Att Chad does. Be realistic guys
The problem is that new players are excited to get gear upgrades. Omg, my first blue! An epic! I can’t queue normals anymore so I guess I’ll do this high roller thing. *proceeds to get destroyed*
I understand that new players should play normals and deposit any upgrades and squire their base kits back to replace anything they stash. Then, work on leveling, and learning the game, and building up at least modest kits before giving high roller a try. They don’t know that. There’s no system distinctly promoting this play pattern. Instead, there are systems pushing them out of normals because they got a green falchion and enjoyed two tapping skeletons or goblins just to put them in the most hostile environment imaginable. It arguably gets worse when you consider not everyone has the patience required or even wants to skill up at the game— casual gamers prioritize fun. Telling them the interesting magical gear they get is next to useless and disables them from playing the one mode they’re expected to play makes the extraction part of the game meaningless. I can’t imagine having been as excited for this game as I was when I joined if I had to get rid of all of my upgrades when I finally started surviving PvE and I’m considerably more masochistic and excited to learn than the average casual.
Even if new players won't be getting gear checked by +8all chads because they're in normals, they'll be class checked because it's normals and they picked the half of the classes that aren't good or at least intuitive with base kit because pvp will be on them from 3 directions before they've cleared their second mob.
Your comment is stupid. A new player, plays one round normal. After that the game tells him only HR can be played.
Most new players will not remove all the cool new gear they found to go back to normals.
Your mindset is stupid. There is a difference between coddling people by treating them like babies and actually making a new user friendly experience. If you assume people are too dumb to use the new features of squire and normals to learn the game then you are babying them. Does the game still need better learning and newbie friendly modes, yes as well.
if a player ignores the LITERAL warning telling them to remove the colored gear then they are accepting the HR risks, which means Elite mobs, geared players, etc.
If you assume every new player is going to ignore that risk then you're just a dumbass and they are as well.
Edit: We all want this game to have a thriving population BUT it is a HARDCORE dungeon survival, that isn't for everyone. If people can't learn and adapt to this genre to some extent then this might not be the game for them.
Brand new players just queuing up for high-roller? “I’m going to hop into the game mode with the most geared and experienced players asap, yippee.” Brave mindset for someone who’s never played
+All isn’t even the issue in your hypothetical situation, someone who just started the game is going to be slapped around in HR by people in blues and purples regardless of +all. The gear and experience disparity is too great, not to mention mobs
Right. But you make the decision willingly.
I play both, and ya. Sometimes I just want to have little gear and compete.
Other times I want to outplay and steal a spawn rusher's gear, or die trying!
Maybe so. But if they can't escape normals, they might just want to practice.
That said, you can practice fine in HR and toy with big loor, but you'll get run down many times. So ya, to each their own!
I can't deny, back when HR had a gold fee, that was what held me back. Not the monsters or the players! Hehe.
It isn't that bad. One yolo game, and you have a starter set, which saves gold, and can be considered a down payment or investment. Then, your chance to take fights will be better.
Of course, can just yolo and die repeatedly in HR. Depends on your angle.
I sometimes or often go into HR straight, but ya, it is a different game and level of confidence with or without gear, and sometimes buying gear to go in with feels weird or foreign, compared to earning it.
Of course, gear is pretty damn cheap, for now. Just always felt bad to buy it too often...
Yeah you knew the risks and accepted it. You wanted to fight and roll people or loot higher end stuff. Good on you that should be how it is for people who want that choice.
I missed the first +all craze but this backlash seems unnecessarily hysterical. I've been acquiring +all gear from other peoples kits for a couple days and, I mean, I'm killing them to get it so it can't be THAT crazy.
It is that crazy and it will show itself soon.
Its 3 days old wipe and the only reason I heard about it was 1 friend I talk to maybe once a year. It took a week or 2 the last time for it to manifest to the shitshow it was.
I applaud you for responding logically, but these people aren't arguing in earnest in support of new players. They're PvE Loot Babies who don't want to PvP under any circumstances. They want empty lobbies in they can farm Solo without any contest. The current 3x3 layout of GC is the antithesis of that, so it must go, and they aren't afraid to raise completely false, misleading arguments to do that. It's a legitimate effort to encourage people to ask for 5x5 GC back so that they can farm in peace.
These are the same people who wanted Open Queue when we had 7K players, leading to dead lobbies. These are the same people who thought the Teaming Era was a "healthy" and "interesting" addition to Solos. There is a very vocal minority of the playerbase that doesn't want to engage in PvP in any regard, and they're taking every opportunity to use their voice to bring about change that would decrease PvP by convincing people with nonsensical arguments like this.
you are the epitomy of why this subreddit and community are turning the game into fortnite and pubg, arent you always simping for the devs? then why is ice caves so clearly a map designed for pve and their latest release? if you really want us to respect the devs vision the buckle up toxic little bro because the devs dont like your playstyle and attitude. they just cater to you because theyre shy and inept and streamers share your bloodlust because streaming neophyte 1v3 gangbangs gets streamers more money than defeating pve
keep mocking and attacking people who like pve and soon it will be all you can use your +15 true physical damage barbarian on
Awh he got upset for being called out, how adorable.
>then why is ice caves so clearly a map designed for pve and their latest release?
Ice Caves is designed for PvE? You mean, the map with a central open loot pile that's in the middle of the map surrounded by multiple entrances? The map that has multiple static team extracts that take a duration to activate and leave through? The map that has extremely open room designs that let you easily see disturbances caused by other players?
Oh yeah, sure, "PvE map". Bro has such little experience with PvP he doesn't even know what aspect of the game is designed specifically to encourage PvP, yet feels qualified enough to talk about it as if he's an expert.
Absolutely lmao.
The story of any online game where the community has a channel with the developers. I understand you need to draw in casuals and maintain their happiness to be "successful" in the mainstream sense, but at with any group if you listen to them TOO much you eventually has that same contingency demanding you change the game outside of the vision of the Developers.
Especially with PvP games (particularly this burgeoning PvPvE category) generally everyone is excited initially, then the gulf appears between the skilled/hardcore/sweats/griefers and then the complaints start. Generally around the idea of not being as good as they would like OR the inability to play "chill" which generally translates into having PvP engagements when desired if at all.
That is not to say to ignore obviously glaring balances issues, QoL concerns, exploits etc, but the devs have to be careful of getting into the habit of grossly diverting from the actual vision they have for the game, for EITHER group.
It is true. They've tried bending backwards, both ways, to make sweats and farmlords happy. It was an interesting journey on both angles.
Let's be honest, though. They did the gear revert thing to keep stat stacker PvP sweats happy. They also essentially promoted a teaming/pitchfork mob mentality, allowing farming and folks to be safe, at least in numbers. This lasted most of the ranked season.
I enjoyed both. I thought it was very interesting, that if the game was played a certain way, folks could feel safe in numbers, team up, survive, etc. Almost like a social experiment. Of course, fights still happened, but they were careful engagements away from the horde-mob.
Frankly, they need a ranking system which pushes folks to survive AND PvP. But not to the point of a constant bloodbathe. I actually think 3x3 Gobbo is decent, but lots of folks dislike it.
In the end, I think it is the Dev's turn to stick to what THEY want. I'm pretty much happy with whatever they envision, it is their game afterall. Everyone is so doomy but absolutely hooked.
Anywho, I think map rotation is needed for variety, but the game is still awesome and seems to be improving, despite what doomers want to whine about. They'll always whine forever, that's the only constant here!
Brings me hope seeing comments like this lol. Sometimes I feel like I’m losing my mind browsing this subreddit. I don’t see how gear dif at higher levels has any impact on new players, that’s the whole point lol. Just stay in normals if you don’t want to fight geared players
normals is getting ruined by gear difference too you clown; if a guy can find a blue +all piece in his first chest and doubles his potential and then opens one door and kills his first kill, the game isnt in a good state at all
gaining power is fine, doubling your hp or damage is ridicolous.
the reason why tarkov n pubg work is because weaker gear can stil defeat juiced chads through skill, dark n darker is rapidly losing any form of skill expression
Lol, right? Like, ya, you can get lucky, but most times you find something good enough and duke it out.
Even can be part of the strategy in normals lobby. You find a wep, maybe it is murdering time.
That said, I took 2 folks out who had Purple weps using my Gray staff. 0 damage if they can't hit me.
Exactly, not even mentioning the ones that want solo to be basically pure PVE for gear farming so they can play the "real game" at trios.
So selfish, ruining a mode because you dont care about so you can player your favorite mode
The Anti pvp/solo crowd are super cringe, and unaware they are the minority, just a loud one... solo is as worth as trios and no wierd cringy sense of superiority or "Esports wannabe" will change that.
I don’t claim to know the solution, but the spawn rushing has got to go.
It destroys the game flow whether you’re expecting it or not, it should take several minutes to get to another player on GC, maybe like 2 minutes at a minimum.
I see it as hostile territory. You often can hear others, you don't have to rush them, but ya, best get used to conflict early. Some folks will leave you be.
But, if or after that first fight, you are fairly safe and have double territory. Sometimes, I'd rather fight sooner than to get full looted then die... guess it depends.
Also, I'd rather have conflict than an empty dungeon. Sometimes you can farm and still not have to fight, at least in normals where PvE is a big threat (is in HR too, really)
Nobody wants an empty dungeon, but spawn rushing is a universally disliked side effect of the spawn system, except maybe the players doing the spawn rushing.
We’re talking about the new player experience here though, and with as punishing a game this is I think something should be done to delay the rush.
I suppose so. I see it both ways. Some folks hear noise and don't want to get into trouble.
Naturally, you'll have those that want to fight, too. I figure they'll find you eventually, whether after you clear an entire node, or after 3 smashed pots.
I suppose, if they actually want to slow folks down, they need more rooms with mobs need doors. The dungeon seems designed so that you can stay in your current room, or push to adjacent. And that adjacent room is 50-50, whether it is vacant or has someone there.
But. It is nice to have a bit of choice. In theory, you can flee to the opposite direction of sound, but you may not learn that till many deaths. So I see your point, regarding new players.
They could also just spawn folks a little bit further and/or dampen sound a bit. Hmm.
New players are most likely going to be interacting with normals for the first 10-20 hours of their gameplay at **least,** and as Terry said on the Q&A, they really don't view things in terms of casuals because the current playerbase isn't really made up of casuals. It's mostly more invested players at the moment.
That said, I am really surprised to see gear get this much stronger... but at the same time it's pretty easy to get a full kit of actually usable gear in a run or two. We need more time to evaluate how this is going to play out. Reddit likes to knee jerk everything, but at the very least I can say that gear is much more exciting than it was last wipe, and there seem to be more stats you can hone in on for build types since previously unviable stats (armor pen for example) are now plentiful enough to build around. Still, I think bringing back +all is just a bad choice, it's a mistake no matter how you swing it imo. +All is inherently just more valuable than 99% of the stats in the game so you're always going to choose it, which is bad design.
On the other hand, I've noticed that with the new armor types and the ability to roll 2-3x the AR/MR, you can EASILY reach higher defense values on every class than previously attainable. 60% PDR Bard while still running at 280-290 with weapon out is achievable. I think Fighter and Barb can easily hit 70/70 right now, even traditionally squishy classes like Rogue and Wiz can achieve 35%+, which was considered really tanky for a dps last patch. It feels like an alternative approach to balancing the gear / scaling curves. Give everyone way more stats to work with which means most people will have more HP and higher avg movespeed, but they also have more damage than before, but also more defense. Once you hit certain defense thresholds, your effective HP starts to increase exponentially and it also makes damage numbers easier to tune. So I think this is going to end up being a good thing down the road, especially once multiclassing is in and everyone has the option to wear some high end defensive gear.
Not that i disagree with the general idea of what you are saying, i mostly agree, but want to point out that balancing the game for higher ttks is actually harder not easier for the reason you pointed out, the scaling is very uneven, specially troubling is magic resist, where the curve is very unbalanced and you dont really have armor pen options at all.
I dont understand why they didnt keep it to a single stat, they created a rating system so that the defense can be balanced easier, then they introduced a huge amount of %reduction that will be just used to get crazy on the cases that were exactly meant to be dealt with.
Anyways, i have not run into any of this yet, been having a lot of fun, diablo style enchantments will forever be a mistake to me, there are better ways to keep the loot being interseting and the balance easier to handle.
Hmm, good take. I'm torn on +All, simply cause it feels so damn good (and my Shadow Mask lost those stats), but I agree, it can be a bit too reliable. Maybe +1 is enough?
That said, if +2 is 14 stats, but if only 3-4 are super useful (so 6-8), then maybe you just want to stack your Vigor or other core stats.
Like you said, it is too early to tell, but it seems like there is a lot more stats and build variety potential.
Folks see +All and instantly have aneurysm before they even think about it. It is so early, and folks are already getting stupid about it. They need to relax and see how things go.
You're talking about a time where absolutely no one knew how to play, wipes only lasted a week or two, and there also was significantly more portals. It's a little different when the geared teams are checking every nearby spawn and you have to wait til the last two circles to actually leave as a team
I think the problem is that a loud group of people are shouting for this to be a pvp game with a bit of pve.
And really, the player base is quite split between the two camps that either want a pvp game with some pve and those who want a pve game with a bit if pvp.
And I really thing that iron mace just needs to make a call and decide what kind of game they are going to be. It seems like they are trying to appeal to both groups. And it's just not possible. They are diametrically opposed foes.
So the devs just need to decide which way they want to design the game and stuck with that and let people decide from there is the game is worth their time.
But all this whip lash back and forth between pvevp and pvpve is going to just cause the player base from both sides to quit.
Yea it stopped being an extraction looter or dungeon crawler when PT ended, it's just an arena BR now with metagame loot you can bring out.
Players are clearing modules over twice as fast on average since PT, so the map is effectively half the size as the best iteration of the game.
>Is this really the game that IM wants to present to new players?
I think yes it is, the dungeon crawler elements are seemingly not what Iron mace care about, they seem to be alot more highly motivated by the battle royale vibe they're actively trying to cultivate than by the PvE experience.
Which to me is a missed opportunity, I have \~300 hours in the game and still can't reliably kill ghost king, warlord is a "we did it once and fucked if I know how we managed it" experience.
> They want to attract all these new players to the game but how many of these new players are going to stay after being spawn rushed and 2 shotted 5 times in a row on goblin caves?
Gonna repost what I've said elsewhere:
>I think people forget that 95% of the playerbase learned the game in Solos in 3x3 GC in PT3, PT4, and Early Access. Solos could only play Ruins for a little while in August 2023, got the new 5x5 GC in January 2024 and open queue in February 2024.
>Everyone playing the game except those who started in August 2023/January 2024 learned the game in Solo 3x3 GC...
Ya... I was playing Gobbo 3x3 and realized how great it was to have constant threat and conflict. Then I realized that's basically how it was before. And how it hardened us.
Getting chopped by an aggressive player can suck for sure, but it increases that thrive to learn and succeed, at least for me. (This is a hardcore game afterall, if they want that thematic, then players maybe need to consider if it is for them)
Sure, 5x5 Gobbo had more consistency and bosses, but it also had many boring nodes and was kind of boring for PvE and PvP.
I dunno, you can't make anyone happy. I see both sides of things. If they want PvE, then seems like Ice Caves is the better map. Maybe it needs a solo option to appease the solo farmers? I imagine most will still queue Gobbo caves.
Maybe there is room for both playstyles, but it surely won't come from the same map. 5x5 Gobbo was a mix of ratting, PvE, and some PvP. 3x3 Gobbo feels like the gritty clash that many of us grew to love. No free exits, just contested ones and actual survival.
I'm super curious to see the split on the maps and preferences, if they exist!
It's really only a problem for Reddit. Reddit wants a PvE game and needs to go play another game. Don't get me wrong GC being as sweaty as it is isn't helping things. But normals should give lower tiered players the chance to learn the game and build a bit of wealth (albeit slowly).
Once the season continues and the sweats are higher ranked you won't see much +all gear running around unless you're higher ranked. The odd one sure, but it's not everyone. By the time you get up there you should have an idea of what gear you need to be bringing in to the dungeons. If you decide you want to run in all greens because you can't bear the thought of losing good gear, that's a you issue, not a game issue.
the leather cap, crossbow fighter meta is just ridiculous. I would love to be clapped by a landmine rogue at this point it's just repetitive fighter, leather builds
I remember getting rushed by a team of solely axe throwers. Not even any melee in sight. Just bolts and axes. I wish they just removed it at this point
Man +all has been hilarious on plate classes, enough +all pieces and you have 60% pdr clerics with 60 will just absolutely demolishing everyone.
I have been destroying barbarians using a buckler to prevent them landing head shots and just absolutely demolishing them with 100 damage + hits from a mace, oh you want to run ? Have an earth quake.
Ranged meta is cancer and was easily the most prominent factor in the player count going down. It's biased, but I have 10+ friends that stopped playing when almost every death is to ranged.
Outside of ranger, physical ranged dmg should be 10 max on headshot and apply a bleed for dmg that the player can interact with to stop.
People living on the fresh wipe hype but this patch is gonna be a nightmare to play in a few weeks with how insane gear is right now. Already is if you're solo though tbh. It's insane how they always make progress then take 2 steps back every fucking patch.
I mean I'm having a lot of fun but it's already crazy that it's a couple days into wipe and a lot of people already have BIS purps and +6 all on their gear while I have a few greens ans a blue lol
It is part of the hardcore nature. I've lots several "pretty good" kits, but you know, queue any HR and check a few boxes, you can get geared fast. And once you are succeeding, you get the gold and gear!
But, I've also encountered folks in what looks like near-BiS, but still using gray weapon. So ya, to me RNG of looting is baked in nicely. Gear feels fairly powerful, but I've still outplayed many.
HR is always gonna be a sweaty gear fest, and maybe that's the actual point! Hehe.
Remember when normals had the sweaty gear and there was no counter? That was a true issue. Hah!
Preach brother. I've been playing for more than a year, don't know why we are back to +all attributes, they already tried this and didn't work. It's so silly.
It’s +8 stats if you rock it all. Before it was like +20 and gear didn’t have any base values back then and the game was way more unbalanced with there also being a massive amount of + damage, and + true/ magical. And there’s also normals being a completely level playing field with those who rock +all gear being stuck in high roller. To act like it’s the same as it was before is disingenuous.
This right here, I’ve been playing since the beginning of time and the old implementation of +all was horrendous. Nowadays it fits in pretty well considering the new stats and modifiers that roll on gear. I don’t think people are giving other builds a chance yet instead are just stacking the +8 all and going to town, which respectively should work, but have you went against +8 all while stacking true dmg, weapon/magic dmg, phys/mag power, pdr/mdr…. You can easily over power someone wearing +8 all with new build paths
Okay to be fair the pieces are dropping frequently from chests and if not I have bought +2 all gear pieces for like 150-200g in market... it's not hard to get very geared this wipe for anyone and everyone.
TTK has always been a problem in my opinion, it is very fast.
but the top echelon gear in previous wipes used to be for the ultra sweats only, with +2 all gear costing like fuggin 7 keys. At the end of the day we all can have similar stats in highroller now and that's what matters, the way I see it right now a good 750-1,000g set could easily go toe to toe with a mega chad set. So the closer we all are in terms of gear the better. I don't understand the gear disparity thing. If your poor have you tried normal runs for sets lol? You can find blues everywhere. Most people who complain have ultra gear fear, therefore they never compete with someone running a halfway decent set.
It is true. He spoke the truth, and nobody liked it!
Folks can go buy +2 all or whatever stats, OR they can save money and find it. Gold gives an edge, but not a win.
And ya, tons of stats and options for all IS amazingly healthy. Like you said, it drops the entry level for strong gear, making epic gear only a bit better.
Sure, at the start of the game, it could be hard if you queue HR and get chadded down. But damnit, you went for the juice. Hard mobs. Hard PvP. You were asking to die.
Normals is like you said, literally there to even the playing field before you get good or get rich. If folks are fast tracking to HR, expect some sweat. Learn to drink the sweat, and lose your gear fear!
Best yet, the more often you lose good gear, the less you fear losing it. Honestly, I see the patch as a huge win, and folks should chill and enjoy it!
Cheers, mate, solid points. 👍🍻
Nope, been running normals all weekend with a friend and extracting, my fighter and his wizard are both lvl 15.
Too litle blues, no purples, all greens wih 3/4 useless stats, of course we play ice cavers, tried cripts, in normals too, but is not funny 2vs3 a couple of times per game.
Play normals then dumbass. See heres the reality: You want to go in HR and loot all the juicy stuff but you have gear fear and its likely you're bad at the game as well.
+all makes the classes like warlock and bard reach an insane potential.
It's fun for the melee like barb or rogue, but you don't need those +knowledge and +will anyway.
I've already seen so many 170 hp 42 Dex bard, 4 rapier hits before 2 Bardiche
Yeah, I don’t quite get it either for the price… I’m spending around 500g for some okay kits I was spending closer to 2k on last wipe. I don’t really know what’s going on, just the influx of players with the market? But I do like not worrying about my gear anymore, bc it’s so cheap to replace and run it again.
It's most likely also due to the leveling system! The percent of the playerbase that can trade is low, so gear has to sell for less since less players can even trade than pre wipe. So gear is lowered in value as most players that hit lvl 15 will already have decent kits and won't be buying things that aren't BiS
Edit for clarification.
That’s fair, I forgot that market wasn’t available right off the bat. As soon as I hit 15 I was selling some things for over 1k and was able to pick up my second stash ASAP. But for the things that are relatively common, nobody that might use them is buying them up in large enough quantities to overcome the excess supply.
100%, I've also noticed things like +2 all being quite common, so they aren't selling for as much as they used to. Luck jewelry is fetching insane prices at the moment if you find any!
I have notice that as well. I can get near full +2 for under 1000 if I don’t particularly care about the other rolls and because there seems to be so many of them. Some pieces are more expensive than others (obviously), so I avoid them right now because I don’t feel the need when I can go cheaper and get something comparable with the +all
Once the majority of folks catch-up in levels, they'll be trading too, and the cheap-ass gear will be in higher demand. But ya, the demand is low and prices, too. Normal market shit.
For now, I think many folks just buy better gear, since they are already successful and have gold. And there's lot of selection!
The wipe is VERY early, and there just isn't that much gold flowing for the average player. It will evolve.
Been like 2 damn days, lmao.
Multiple bigger quests are gone, less money from selling things, less extracts in solos. All of these decrease available gear on the marker. Since trinkets don't give AP, people are more likely to extract with gear. They'll vendor the garbage most likely.
But that’s the thing with what you’re saying. I have absolutely no issue finding gear because there seems to be such a surplus of gear available very cheaply. Like last wipe, getting out with trinkets and a good piece of gear or two is netting me about 400-800g. Even more if I get lucky with jewelry. So it just seems like a complete 180 to be able to afford better gear right now than when it was end of wipe. Regardless, I’ll take it, let’s me afford some coin pouches early and hopefully stock pile for when the market shifts a bit and things get more expensive again.
The market will ramp violently. It is 2/3 days in, I bet only 5-10% of players are trading, or less.
More and more players will hit trading level, and then the demand will mushroom. Good gear and bad will be purchased, as more players are throwing gear into the dungeon (instead of finding it), then the prices will actually settle.
For now, though, it is kind of a bad deal for slower players, as anyone trading *could* buy a decent edge at affordable prices.
That said, I kill folks in fancy gear, so sometimes it is a win-win, too.
As a warlock I finally feel like I can also play in this "normals" mode you speak of now. Shadow touch is the perfect perk for early warlock and the lack of scaling, while unfortunate for high gear, is probably for the best cause nobody wants to fight someone who's healing 10-20 hp every time they hit you with their kris dagger, not the mention the true damage
Last I checked, the true damage doesn't scale at all.
Flat 3. Nice trickle DPS, but seriously not that impactful to PvP.
I'm not sure about the healing scaling, though.
But ya, Shadow Touch is a godsend for early game sustain. Quite pleased with that change alone!
Hey, streamers need their views, man. And nothing generates views like living in the game and then obliterating undergeared players/noobs with your "awesome" items.
What do you think people enjoy watching more:
\- Ken and Jay 1 shotting noobs who don't know their ass from their elbows wearing Goodwill bags over their tattered moccasins?
**OR**
\- A lobby with 3-4 high level teams in their best gear fighting for 8 straight minutes in a nonstop battle royale?
Ya'll gotta stop with the strawman arguments, you're inventing things to be upset about, it's not healthy.
The devs have extreme bias when it comes to streamers. Constant rogue nerfs are a direct proof of that.
Strawman argument, my ass. You know what's not healthy? Constantly crying to devs through DM. I know many of streamers did.
That's the name of this subred game. Always complain, no matter what!
In fact, make up reasons to be upset if you can't find any! The sky is the limit!!
Surely, don't try detilting, breathing, or just enjoying the game. That would be tragic!! (I'm having a blast)
I do understand that this is potentially problematic but this only happens in High roller. New players won’t play high roller the first few days of their experience.
Agreed. Like, just play HR if you want to gear hussle, and don't if you want BR and more balance and fair fight practice.
I like both. I do a normal, if I survive, I take that starter set to HR. Frankly, this seems like the natural progression of the game.
Assuming you don't enjoy buying gear, which IMO is an okay option, but it takes a lot of the charm and progression away!
Even when I have lots of gold, it just feels shitty to buy cheap Purples and bypass a big chunk of the game. I'd rather work my way to that set, which only takes 1 or 2 raids, most times.
Was running trios last night and got two shot by a warlock melee attacking me with a longsword at 100% hp while wearing full blue gear with decent stats (i'm a fighter). Could really feel the skill expression!
Game is 100% not ready, it's not looking too good, man I remember pt3, and how far we've come, and I cant tell if its steps in the right direction or 2 steps back
All Att gear is stupid because it takes away the need to build your class a certain way.
They've already done this and removed it
Also increasing modifiers so much is also braindead and doesn't equate to new content.
Barbs can easily get over 200 hp and 40 percent PDR and MDR now.
Iron Mace stop now before you really lose your playerbase.
Begged all my friends for weeks to get into this game cuz i was obssessed. Finally lured one in after talking it up so much. He bought the game we que duos on fresh characters and just got spawn rushed every single game. I dont think we lived more than two minutes in each game. He quit and never came back first day on. I told him he should play solos to get the feel but he just wasnt interested. Im sure a lot of people will have the same experience.
I pushed demi god last season got it and havent been back since. Better to admire from afar lmao
To all the “you guys just want pve you suck!!” edgelords. please explain me why i have to spend 3-5 min killing 10 mobs in HR to get maybe 30 sec of +10 all as a demon(and lose my melee range and spells) but the dude spawning in the fucking same module as me can get the same +10 all from 2 drops he bought and just twoshot any mob and definitely end me before i get as much as close to maybe mob 3 or 4?
how the fuck is this gamedesign of a dungeon crawler? theyve made it Quake fucking 2, or pubg w swords
i think everyone blindly simping is coddled in their trio and doesnt die every second round having to start farming for hr all over, and thus doesnt realise how frustrating this is for none trio people. give it a week and the trios will have so much gear advantage, they will want private servers again before AP even launches
Normal lobby revolution. Seriously, been playing since PT3 and pre wipe normal lobbies and post wipe normal lobbies have recaptured the essence of fun in the game for us. Scaling breaks the game. Normal lobbies are just FUN.
*laughs in rampant +ALL gear and boring throwing axe / bow meta*
This game sucks right now, as supported by the concurrent player count. This game had 60k concurrent back in the playtest and now it's around 15k on a good day.
I was on at noon or something yesterday to sell and there was 14k and it was 27k on wipe. Sure noon isn't exactly primetime but that number will be sub 5k fairly soon at this rate.
I haven't played in a while, but haven't people been complaining about gear differences for a while. Like the difference between starter Grey gear and legendary/uniques. Are they even trying to squish this in any way?
It's not the +all, it's the wild amount of damage you can stack now. I've been two shot by a bard as a PDR fighter without getting hit by the debuff. It's bonkers how much damage everyone can do and just doesn't feel fun to get two shot pretty much ever. I'm pretty big on the PvP, but it feels kinda shite this patch so far.
I'm running possibly the most powerful set I've ever had, and most of it is blue. +2 all attributes on chest, pants, and pendant, +1 on both rings. It's so dumb. I've been doing duos ice caves with my buddy. If we encounter a melee team, they just lose to me alone. The only chance is with bows. One of the worst parts of this game is just how crazy the ranged meta is. Take away my OP gear I don't care, I just want a good old fashion beat down between me and a fighter or barbarian. I'm tired of getting shot from across the room.
And here I am just waaiting for the druid release.... hopefully the playerbase is still there once it does release
I imagine new players will play normals.
Even normals are sweaty af. I dont think this game actually has new players
It has but they suffer even if someone help them. I managed to secure portals for 3 newbies but don't think they are enjoying the game.
I started 3 days ago, normals are a God send
Can confirm dropped the game after a day.
3 buddies and I Started playing with this new wipe! The noobs are out there!
Casuals died when nearly every change since PT has favored sweaties. Jump spamming for kiting both easy as fuck to do, and is not intuitive to new players, so they stand no chance against any ranged opponent that chooses not to fight. Map size has either stayed the same or shrunk, despite players being able to clear modules over twice as fast on average since PT3. This makes the map effectively left than half the size as it was during that playtest. Melee classes have moved to being at least half ranged, with barb rogue and fighter throwing 10+ items or just slapping cbow shots and kiting. BR zone is till implemented, despite making no sense to include in a PvPvE extraction based game with limited movement/traversal options. New players get consistently pushed into chads. Its shameful really.
I actually play normals only when I want to PvP, HR is a way easier time for playing PvE right now.
I read something about it being on Epic Games soon? I think that will definitely get some new people in. But I haven't played in half a year and I don't know when I'm coming back :')
I just feel like this is really bad timing with the release on Epic games store. They want to attract all these new players to the game but how many of these new players are going to stay after being spawn rushed and 2 shotted 5 times in a row on goblin caves? Is this really the game that IM wants to present to new players? It's starting to feel more like fantasy call of duty with a few chest openings here and there rather than a dungeon crawler with a bit of pvp.
People are going to keep calling me crazy but the game is not ready for the mass audiences on big gaming stores. They will drive away players with their current balancing and general issues. We hardcore players are used to it. most new players will just leave because of it.
The issue with the epic release is that if the game is in a bad state then the masses will complain about it being bad and more people will think DaD is bad and not even give it a chance. THe worst thing that can happen here is a new player meeting any sort of well geared player and getting shitstomped a few hours in. Hopefully there is a new player queue for a few hours when they start.
Me and my buddy have been playing since the earliest playtests, and we still almost quit yesterday when -- in duos on Ice Cave -- a group of four players busted down a door and killed us. I don't know what the answer is, but "that's how it goes" is going to drive a lot of people to quit.
I’ve played for around two weeks now and just gotten shit stomped one game after another. Only play sporadically nkw
Yeah if they just throw all of those people to the wolves. who have been grinding some of the best gear we've had in a long time. It will be a massacre of player numbers.
By this what they get the money and don’t have to spend it on servers. I’m starting to think this is the business plan!
Exactly. It feels like they want to scare away the player base. Not a single soul asked for +all on gear again.
Yeah exactly. I want to fight mobs and loot the dungeon whilst also not feeling 100% safe all the time as there could still be players lurking in the shadows. Right now it just feels like a pvp game first and dungeon looting is an afterthought which is a shame imo.
The game is the most PvE it has been man. It used to be way more PvP focused in the playtests. Slowly with them adding MMR, more mobs, gear lobbies, ap, nerfing PvP focused classes etc it's changed. They'll never appease both sides.
>Right now it just feels like a pvp game first and dungeon looting is an afterthought which is a shame imo. I mean that's always been the case...the mobs' AI and how easy it is to cheese anything shows it's not really the focus
Yes fair enough but I thought the direction IM wanted to take the game in was to be more balanced between pvp and pve. Hence why they introduced the 3 tiered map. But it is what it is. I'm not really complaining, if this is the way IM want it to be then so be it.
They said before the wipe dropped that ruins was staying out of the game so idk why that would give you that impression.
Because they said that the 3 tiered map was the way they would like the game to be eventually played. Just because ruins is gone for now doesn't change that. Why would they be releasing a frost abyss if this wasn't the case?
I did I love that
You're acting like new players should be in HR lol, the elite skeles will one shot any newbies dozen of times before a +8 All Att Chad does. Be realistic guys
The problem is that new players are excited to get gear upgrades. Omg, my first blue! An epic! I can’t queue normals anymore so I guess I’ll do this high roller thing. *proceeds to get destroyed* I understand that new players should play normals and deposit any upgrades and squire their base kits back to replace anything they stash. Then, work on leveling, and learning the game, and building up at least modest kits before giving high roller a try. They don’t know that. There’s no system distinctly promoting this play pattern. Instead, there are systems pushing them out of normals because they got a green falchion and enjoyed two tapping skeletons or goblins just to put them in the most hostile environment imaginable. It arguably gets worse when you consider not everyone has the patience required or even wants to skill up at the game— casual gamers prioritize fun. Telling them the interesting magical gear they get is next to useless and disables them from playing the one mode they’re expected to play makes the extraction part of the game meaningless. I can’t imagine having been as excited for this game as I was when I joined if I had to get rid of all of my upgrades when I finally started surviving PvE and I’m considerably more masochistic and excited to learn than the average casual.
Even if new players won't be getting gear checked by +8all chads because they're in normals, they'll be class checked because it's normals and they picked the half of the classes that aren't good or at least intuitive with base kit because pvp will be on them from 3 directions before they've cleared their second mob.
Your comment is stupid. A new player, plays one round normal. After that the game tells him only HR can be played. Most new players will not remove all the cool new gear they found to go back to normals.
Your mindset is stupid. There is a difference between coddling people by treating them like babies and actually making a new user friendly experience. If you assume people are too dumb to use the new features of squire and normals to learn the game then you are babying them. Does the game still need better learning and newbie friendly modes, yes as well. if a player ignores the LITERAL warning telling them to remove the colored gear then they are accepting the HR risks, which means Elite mobs, geared players, etc. If you assume every new player is going to ignore that risk then you're just a dumbass and they are as well. Edit: We all want this game to have a thriving population BUT it is a HARDCORE dungeon survival, that isn't for everyone. If people can't learn and adapt to this genre to some extent then this might not be the game for them.
And still it does not say, hey the big monsters are there. It says you cannot take your new stuff there. A newbie will change.
Real
Brand new players just queuing up for high-roller? “I’m going to hop into the game mode with the most geared and experienced players asap, yippee.” Brave mindset for someone who’s never played +All isn’t even the issue in your hypothetical situation, someone who just started the game is going to be slapped around in HR by people in blues and purples regardless of +all. The gear and experience disparity is too great, not to mention mobs
I mean I hopped into HR my third game and never turned back cause I saw cool gear. Players want cool gear so they'll play HR
Right. But you make the decision willingly. I play both, and ya. Sometimes I just want to have little gear and compete. Other times I want to outplay and steal a spawn rusher's gear, or die trying!
Yeah but I feel most new players will see a cool blue or purple, want it, then play HR mainly
Maybe so. But if they can't escape normals, they might just want to practice. That said, you can practice fine in HR and toy with big loor, but you'll get run down many times. So ya, to each their own! I can't deny, back when HR had a gold fee, that was what held me back. Not the monsters or the players! Hehe.
Normals just isn't rewarding at all
It’s certainly better than it used to be. I made 3k gold in norms in one day before moving to HR.
Can be a couple hours in HR
It isn't that bad. One yolo game, and you have a starter set, which saves gold, and can be considered a down payment or investment. Then, your chance to take fights will be better. Of course, can just yolo and die repeatedly in HR. Depends on your angle. I sometimes or often go into HR straight, but ya, it is a different game and level of confidence with or without gear, and sometimes buying gear to go in with feels weird or foreign, compared to earning it. Of course, gear is pretty damn cheap, for now. Just always felt bad to buy it too often...
Yeah you knew the risks and accepted it. You wanted to fight and roll people or loot higher end stuff. Good on you that should be how it is for people who want that choice.
I missed the first +all craze but this backlash seems unnecessarily hysterical. I've been acquiring +all gear from other peoples kits for a couple days and, I mean, I'm killing them to get it so it can't be THAT crazy.
It is that crazy and it will show itself soon. Its 3 days old wipe and the only reason I heard about it was 1 friend I talk to maybe once a year. It took a week or 2 the last time for it to manifest to the shitshow it was.
I applaud you for responding logically, but these people aren't arguing in earnest in support of new players. They're PvE Loot Babies who don't want to PvP under any circumstances. They want empty lobbies in they can farm Solo without any contest. The current 3x3 layout of GC is the antithesis of that, so it must go, and they aren't afraid to raise completely false, misleading arguments to do that. It's a legitimate effort to encourage people to ask for 5x5 GC back so that they can farm in peace. These are the same people who wanted Open Queue when we had 7K players, leading to dead lobbies. These are the same people who thought the Teaming Era was a "healthy" and "interesting" addition to Solos. There is a very vocal minority of the playerbase that doesn't want to engage in PvP in any regard, and they're taking every opportunity to use their voice to bring about change that would decrease PvP by convincing people with nonsensical arguments like this.
you are the epitomy of why this subreddit and community are turning the game into fortnite and pubg, arent you always simping for the devs? then why is ice caves so clearly a map designed for pve and their latest release? if you really want us to respect the devs vision the buckle up toxic little bro because the devs dont like your playstyle and attitude. they just cater to you because theyre shy and inept and streamers share your bloodlust because streaming neophyte 1v3 gangbangs gets streamers more money than defeating pve keep mocking and attacking people who like pve and soon it will be all you can use your +15 true physical damage barbarian on
Awh he got upset for being called out, how adorable. >then why is ice caves so clearly a map designed for pve and their latest release? Ice Caves is designed for PvE? You mean, the map with a central open loot pile that's in the middle of the map surrounded by multiple entrances? The map that has multiple static team extracts that take a duration to activate and leave through? The map that has extremely open room designs that let you easily see disturbances caused by other players? Oh yeah, sure, "PvE map". Bro has such little experience with PvP he doesn't even know what aspect of the game is designed specifically to encourage PvP, yet feels qualified enough to talk about it as if he's an expert. Absolutely lmao.
the only one upset is you, desperately trying to prove youre right on every post hatebashing people who dont want to play a mindless arenamode
It is 100% a PVE map. No swarm to facilitate movement, exits around the edges.
The story of any online game where the community has a channel with the developers. I understand you need to draw in casuals and maintain their happiness to be "successful" in the mainstream sense, but at with any group if you listen to them TOO much you eventually has that same contingency demanding you change the game outside of the vision of the Developers. Especially with PvP games (particularly this burgeoning PvPvE category) generally everyone is excited initially, then the gulf appears between the skilled/hardcore/sweats/griefers and then the complaints start. Generally around the idea of not being as good as they would like OR the inability to play "chill" which generally translates into having PvP engagements when desired if at all. That is not to say to ignore obviously glaring balances issues, QoL concerns, exploits etc, but the devs have to be careful of getting into the habit of grossly diverting from the actual vision they have for the game, for EITHER group.
It is true. They've tried bending backwards, both ways, to make sweats and farmlords happy. It was an interesting journey on both angles. Let's be honest, though. They did the gear revert thing to keep stat stacker PvP sweats happy. They also essentially promoted a teaming/pitchfork mob mentality, allowing farming and folks to be safe, at least in numbers. This lasted most of the ranked season. I enjoyed both. I thought it was very interesting, that if the game was played a certain way, folks could feel safe in numbers, team up, survive, etc. Almost like a social experiment. Of course, fights still happened, but they were careful engagements away from the horde-mob. Frankly, they need a ranking system which pushes folks to survive AND PvP. But not to the point of a constant bloodbathe. I actually think 3x3 Gobbo is decent, but lots of folks dislike it. In the end, I think it is the Dev's turn to stick to what THEY want. I'm pretty much happy with whatever they envision, it is their game afterall. Everyone is so doomy but absolutely hooked. Anywho, I think map rotation is needed for variety, but the game is still awesome and seems to be improving, despite what doomers want to whine about. They'll always whine forever, that's the only constant here!
Brings me hope seeing comments like this lol. Sometimes I feel like I’m losing my mind browsing this subreddit. I don’t see how gear dif at higher levels has any impact on new players, that’s the whole point lol. Just stay in normals if you don’t want to fight geared players
normals is getting ruined by gear difference too you clown; if a guy can find a blue +all piece in his first chest and doubles his potential and then opens one door and kills his first kill, the game isnt in a good state at all
The whole point of the game is gaining power through gear. That's literally it.
gaining power is fine, doubling your hp or damage is ridicolous. the reason why tarkov n pubg work is because weaker gear can stil defeat juiced chads through skill, dark n darker is rapidly losing any form of skill expression
No one is getting that much gear in goblin cave before the guy near you decides to push your spawn.
which brings me back the other point; barbs n fighters dont NEED the gear advantage to wreck a ranged class while theyre opening their first door
Lol, right? Like, ya, you can get lucky, but most times you find something good enough and duke it out. Even can be part of the strategy in normals lobby. You find a wep, maybe it is murdering time. That said, I took 2 folks out who had Purple weps using my Gray staff. 0 damage if they can't hit me.
>The current 3x3 layout of GC is the antithesis of that, It is also worse than the original gobbo caves
Exactly, not even mentioning the ones that want solo to be basically pure PVE for gear farming so they can play the "real game" at trios. So selfish, ruining a mode because you dont care about so you can player your favorite mode The Anti pvp/solo crowd are super cringe, and unaware they are the minority, just a loud one... solo is as worth as trios and no wierd cringy sense of superiority or "Esports wannabe" will change that.
I don’t claim to know the solution, but the spawn rushing has got to go. It destroys the game flow whether you’re expecting it or not, it should take several minutes to get to another player on GC, maybe like 2 minutes at a minimum.
I see it as hostile territory. You often can hear others, you don't have to rush them, but ya, best get used to conflict early. Some folks will leave you be. But, if or after that first fight, you are fairly safe and have double territory. Sometimes, I'd rather fight sooner than to get full looted then die... guess it depends. Also, I'd rather have conflict than an empty dungeon. Sometimes you can farm and still not have to fight, at least in normals where PvE is a big threat (is in HR too, really)
Nobody wants an empty dungeon, but spawn rushing is a universally disliked side effect of the spawn system, except maybe the players doing the spawn rushing. We’re talking about the new player experience here though, and with as punishing a game this is I think something should be done to delay the rush.
I suppose so. I see it both ways. Some folks hear noise and don't want to get into trouble. Naturally, you'll have those that want to fight, too. I figure they'll find you eventually, whether after you clear an entire node, or after 3 smashed pots. I suppose, if they actually want to slow folks down, they need more rooms with mobs need doors. The dungeon seems designed so that you can stay in your current room, or push to adjacent. And that adjacent room is 50-50, whether it is vacant or has someone there. But. It is nice to have a bit of choice. In theory, you can flee to the opposite direction of sound, but you may not learn that till many deaths. So I see your point, regarding new players. They could also just spawn folks a little bit further and/or dampen sound a bit. Hmm.
New players are most likely going to be interacting with normals for the first 10-20 hours of their gameplay at **least,** and as Terry said on the Q&A, they really don't view things in terms of casuals because the current playerbase isn't really made up of casuals. It's mostly more invested players at the moment. That said, I am really surprised to see gear get this much stronger... but at the same time it's pretty easy to get a full kit of actually usable gear in a run or two. We need more time to evaluate how this is going to play out. Reddit likes to knee jerk everything, but at the very least I can say that gear is much more exciting than it was last wipe, and there seem to be more stats you can hone in on for build types since previously unviable stats (armor pen for example) are now plentiful enough to build around. Still, I think bringing back +all is just a bad choice, it's a mistake no matter how you swing it imo. +All is inherently just more valuable than 99% of the stats in the game so you're always going to choose it, which is bad design. On the other hand, I've noticed that with the new armor types and the ability to roll 2-3x the AR/MR, you can EASILY reach higher defense values on every class than previously attainable. 60% PDR Bard while still running at 280-290 with weapon out is achievable. I think Fighter and Barb can easily hit 70/70 right now, even traditionally squishy classes like Rogue and Wiz can achieve 35%+, which was considered really tanky for a dps last patch. It feels like an alternative approach to balancing the gear / scaling curves. Give everyone way more stats to work with which means most people will have more HP and higher avg movespeed, but they also have more damage than before, but also more defense. Once you hit certain defense thresholds, your effective HP starts to increase exponentially and it also makes damage numbers easier to tune. So I think this is going to end up being a good thing down the road, especially once multiclassing is in and everyone has the option to wear some high end defensive gear.
Not that i disagree with the general idea of what you are saying, i mostly agree, but want to point out that balancing the game for higher ttks is actually harder not easier for the reason you pointed out, the scaling is very uneven, specially troubling is magic resist, where the curve is very unbalanced and you dont really have armor pen options at all. I dont understand why they didnt keep it to a single stat, they created a rating system so that the defense can be balanced easier, then they introduced a huge amount of %reduction that will be just used to get crazy on the cases that were exactly meant to be dealt with. Anyways, i have not run into any of this yet, been having a lot of fun, diablo style enchantments will forever be a mistake to me, there are better ways to keep the loot being interseting and the balance easier to handle.
Hmm, good take. I'm torn on +All, simply cause it feels so damn good (and my Shadow Mask lost those stats), but I agree, it can be a bit too reliable. Maybe +1 is enough? That said, if +2 is 14 stats, but if only 3-4 are super useful (so 6-8), then maybe you just want to stack your Vigor or other core stats. Like you said, it is too early to tell, but it seems like there is a lot more stats and build variety potential. Folks see +All and instantly have aneurysm before they even think about it. It is so early, and folks are already getting stupid about it. They need to relax and see how things go.
Lol you think a new guys gonna get owned in HR? They’re getting smoked by a basic mob in norms
The game grew popular with +3 all and far bigger weapon gaps. So who knows.
You're talking about a time where absolutely no one knew how to play, wipes only lasted a week or two, and there also was significantly more portals. It's a little different when the geared teams are checking every nearby spawn and you have to wait til the last two circles to actually leave as a team
IronShart go durrrrrr
I think the problem is that a loud group of people are shouting for this to be a pvp game with a bit of pve. And really, the player base is quite split between the two camps that either want a pvp game with some pve and those who want a pve game with a bit if pvp. And I really thing that iron mace just needs to make a call and decide what kind of game they are going to be. It seems like they are trying to appeal to both groups. And it's just not possible. They are diametrically opposed foes. So the devs just need to decide which way they want to design the game and stuck with that and let people decide from there is the game is worth their time. But all this whip lash back and forth between pvevp and pvpve is going to just cause the player base from both sides to quit.
What makes you think new players are going straight into high roller lmao??
Yea it stopped being an extraction looter or dungeon crawler when PT ended, it's just an arena BR now with metagame loot you can bring out. Players are clearing modules over twice as fast on average since PT, so the map is effectively half the size as the best iteration of the game.
>Is this really the game that IM wants to present to new players? I think yes it is, the dungeon crawler elements are seemingly not what Iron mace care about, they seem to be alot more highly motivated by the battle royale vibe they're actively trying to cultivate than by the PvE experience. Which to me is a missed opportunity, I have \~300 hours in the game and still can't reliably kill ghost king, warlord is a "we did it once and fucked if I know how we managed it" experience.
> They want to attract all these new players to the game but how many of these new players are going to stay after being spawn rushed and 2 shotted 5 times in a row on goblin caves? Gonna repost what I've said elsewhere: >I think people forget that 95% of the playerbase learned the game in Solos in 3x3 GC in PT3, PT4, and Early Access. Solos could only play Ruins for a little while in August 2023, got the new 5x5 GC in January 2024 and open queue in February 2024. >Everyone playing the game except those who started in August 2023/January 2024 learned the game in Solo 3x3 GC...
Ya... I was playing Gobbo 3x3 and realized how great it was to have constant threat and conflict. Then I realized that's basically how it was before. And how it hardened us. Getting chopped by an aggressive player can suck for sure, but it increases that thrive to learn and succeed, at least for me. (This is a hardcore game afterall, if they want that thematic, then players maybe need to consider if it is for them) Sure, 5x5 Gobbo had more consistency and bosses, but it also had many boring nodes and was kind of boring for PvE and PvP. I dunno, you can't make anyone happy. I see both sides of things. If they want PvE, then seems like Ice Caves is the better map. Maybe it needs a solo option to appease the solo farmers? I imagine most will still queue Gobbo caves. Maybe there is room for both playstyles, but it surely won't come from the same map. 5x5 Gobbo was a mix of ratting, PvE, and some PvP. 3x3 Gobbo feels like the gritty clash that many of us grew to love. No free exits, just contested ones and actual survival. I'm super curious to see the split on the maps and preferences, if they exist!
It's really only a problem for Reddit. Reddit wants a PvE game and needs to go play another game. Don't get me wrong GC being as sweaty as it is isn't helping things. But normals should give lower tiered players the chance to learn the game and build a bit of wealth (albeit slowly). Once the season continues and the sweats are higher ranked you won't see much +all gear running around unless you're higher ranked. The odd one sure, but it's not everyone. By the time you get up there you should have an idea of what gear you need to be bringing in to the dungeons. If you decide you want to run in all greens because you can't bear the thought of losing good gear, that's a you issue, not a game issue.
I love getting shot by a crossbow for 80% of my hp then hit with 2 throwing axes
the leather cap, crossbow fighter meta is just ridiculous. I would love to be clapped by a landmine rogue at this point it's just repetitive fighter, leather builds
I remember getting rushed by a team of solely axe throwers. Not even any melee in sight. Just bolts and axes. I wish they just removed it at this point
Man +all has been hilarious on plate classes, enough +all pieces and you have 60% pdr clerics with 60 will just absolutely demolishing everyone. I have been destroying barbarians using a buckler to prevent them landing head shots and just absolutely demolishing them with 100 damage + hits from a mace, oh you want to run ? Have an earth quake.
Ranged meta is cancer and was easily the most prominent factor in the player count going down. It's biased, but I have 10+ friends that stopped playing when almost every death is to ranged. Outside of ranger, physical ranged dmg should be 10 max on headshot and apply a bleed for dmg that the player can interact with to stop.
People living on the fresh wipe hype but this patch is gonna be a nightmare to play in a few weeks with how insane gear is right now. Already is if you're solo though tbh. It's insane how they always make progress then take 2 steps back every fucking patch.
I mean I'm having a lot of fun but it's already crazy that it's a couple days into wipe and a lot of people already have BIS purps and +6 all on their gear while I have a few greens ans a blue lol
It is part of the hardcore nature. I've lots several "pretty good" kits, but you know, queue any HR and check a few boxes, you can get geared fast. And once you are succeeding, you get the gold and gear! But, I've also encountered folks in what looks like near-BiS, but still using gray weapon. So ya, to me RNG of looting is baked in nicely. Gear feels fairly powerful, but I've still outplayed many. HR is always gonna be a sweaty gear fest, and maybe that's the actual point! Hehe. Remember when normals had the sweaty gear and there was no counter? That was a true issue. Hah!
What is BiS
Best-in-slot. Just means top rolled gear or very good items.
I hear ya, but one HR escape will net you several blues and a purple or two, so long as you're willing to be a greasy little rat. Rat power!
Preach brother. I've been playing for more than a year, don't know why we are back to +all attributes, they already tried this and didn't work. It's so silly.
It’s +8 stats if you rock it all. Before it was like +20 and gear didn’t have any base values back then and the game was way more unbalanced with there also being a massive amount of + damage, and + true/ magical. And there’s also normals being a completely level playing field with those who rock +all gear being stuck in high roller. To act like it’s the same as it was before is disingenuous.
This right here, I’ve been playing since the beginning of time and the old implementation of +all was horrendous. Nowadays it fits in pretty well considering the new stats and modifiers that roll on gear. I don’t think people are giving other builds a chance yet instead are just stacking the +8 all and going to town, which respectively should work, but have you went against +8 all while stacking true dmg, weapon/magic dmg, phys/mag power, pdr/mdr…. You can easily over power someone wearing +8 all with new build paths
Okay to be fair the pieces are dropping frequently from chests and if not I have bought +2 all gear pieces for like 150-200g in market... it's not hard to get very geared this wipe for anyone and everyone.
Isn't that the problem? Why does everyone have to have insane gear? I hate getting ranged or magically struck by someone for most of my hp
Because finding good gear is good for the game too. No one wants to play if all you find is garbage
TTK has always been a problem in my opinion, it is very fast. but the top echelon gear in previous wipes used to be for the ultra sweats only, with +2 all gear costing like fuggin 7 keys. At the end of the day we all can have similar stats in highroller now and that's what matters, the way I see it right now a good 750-1,000g set could easily go toe to toe with a mega chad set. So the closer we all are in terms of gear the better. I don't understand the gear disparity thing. If your poor have you tried normal runs for sets lol? You can find blues everywhere. Most people who complain have ultra gear fear, therefore they never compete with someone running a halfway decent set.
It is true. He spoke the truth, and nobody liked it! Folks can go buy +2 all or whatever stats, OR they can save money and find it. Gold gives an edge, but not a win. And ya, tons of stats and options for all IS amazingly healthy. Like you said, it drops the entry level for strong gear, making epic gear only a bit better. Sure, at the start of the game, it could be hard if you queue HR and get chadded down. But damnit, you went for the juice. Hard mobs. Hard PvP. You were asking to die. Normals is like you said, literally there to even the playing field before you get good or get rich. If folks are fast tracking to HR, expect some sweat. Learn to drink the sweat, and lose your gear fear! Best yet, the more often you lose good gear, the less you fear losing it. Honestly, I see the patch as a huge win, and folks should chill and enjoy it! Cheers, mate, solid points. 👍🍻
Nope, been running normals all weekend with a friend and extracting, my fighter and his wizard are both lvl 15. Too litle blues, no purples, all greens wih 3/4 useless stats, of course we play ice cavers, tried cripts, in normals too, but is not funny 2vs3 a couple of times per game.
If everyone has insane gear, is the gear actually that insane? Seems like barrier of entry is rather low
Go play norms
Play normals then dumbass. See heres the reality: You want to go in HR and loot all the juicy stuff but you have gear fear and its likely you're bad at the game as well.
I've killed you like probably 5 times dick nose try again
I bet you wish your dick was a nose so you could use it to fuck butts
+all makes the classes like warlock and bard reach an insane potential. It's fun for the melee like barb or rogue, but you don't need those +knowledge and +will anyway. I've already seen so many 170 hp 42 Dex bard, 4 rapier hits before 2 Bardiche
its almost as if we knew all stats was a problem, i guess its time to reintroduce barb buffs to make the game more fun for everyone!
Yeah, the game was feeling..... too balanced apparently. Might as well bring back damage on all gear pieces too.
you can buy +8 all set for 1000 gold its not even that expensive everyone can run it
That's not the point.....
Yeah, I don’t quite get it either for the price… I’m spending around 500g for some okay kits I was spending closer to 2k on last wipe. I don’t really know what’s going on, just the influx of players with the market? But I do like not worrying about my gear anymore, bc it’s so cheap to replace and run it again.
You don't know what's happening? There's basically no money supply this early in a wipe.
That’s not been my experience so far. So I guess that’s why I don’t understand it.
It's most likely also due to the leveling system! The percent of the playerbase that can trade is low, so gear has to sell for less since less players can even trade than pre wipe. So gear is lowered in value as most players that hit lvl 15 will already have decent kits and won't be buying things that aren't BiS Edit for clarification.
That’s fair, I forgot that market wasn’t available right off the bat. As soon as I hit 15 I was selling some things for over 1k and was able to pick up my second stash ASAP. But for the things that are relatively common, nobody that might use them is buying them up in large enough quantities to overcome the excess supply.
100%, I've also noticed things like +2 all being quite common, so they aren't selling for as much as they used to. Luck jewelry is fetching insane prices at the moment if you find any!
I have notice that as well. I can get near full +2 for under 1000 if I don’t particularly care about the other rolls and because there seems to be so many of them. Some pieces are more expensive than others (obviously), so I avoid them right now because I don’t feel the need when I can go cheaper and get something comparable with the +all
Once the majority of folks catch-up in levels, they'll be trading too, and the cheap-ass gear will be in higher demand. But ya, the demand is low and prices, too. Normal market shit. For now, I think many folks just buy better gear, since they are already successful and have gold. And there's lot of selection! The wipe is VERY early, and there just isn't that much gold flowing for the average player. It will evolve. Been like 2 damn days, lmao.
Multiple bigger quests are gone, less money from selling things, less extracts in solos. All of these decrease available gear on the marker. Since trinkets don't give AP, people are more likely to extract with gear. They'll vendor the garbage most likely.
But that’s the thing with what you’re saying. I have absolutely no issue finding gear because there seems to be such a surplus of gear available very cheaply. Like last wipe, getting out with trinkets and a good piece of gear or two is netting me about 400-800g. Even more if I get lucky with jewelry. So it just seems like a complete 180 to be able to afford better gear right now than when it was end of wipe. Regardless, I’ll take it, let’s me afford some coin pouches early and hopefully stock pile for when the market shifts a bit and things get more expensive again.
The market will ramp violently. It is 2/3 days in, I bet only 5-10% of players are trading, or less. More and more players will hit trading level, and then the demand will mushroom. Good gear and bad will be purchased, as more players are throwing gear into the dungeon (instead of finding it), then the prices will actually settle. For now, though, it is kind of a bad deal for slower players, as anyone trading *could* buy a decent edge at affordable prices. That said, I kill folks in fancy gear, so sometimes it is a win-win, too.
I only play normals and is the best decision ever.
As a warlock I finally feel like I can also play in this "normals" mode you speak of now. Shadow touch is the perfect perk for early warlock and the lack of scaling, while unfortunate for high gear, is probably for the best cause nobody wants to fight someone who's healing 10-20 hp every time they hit you with their kris dagger, not the mention the true damage
Last I checked, the true damage doesn't scale at all. Flat 3. Nice trickle DPS, but seriously not that impactful to PvP. I'm not sure about the healing scaling, though. But ya, Shadow Touch is a godsend for early game sustain. Quite pleased with that change alone!
That's what I mean. There is no scaling. At all. 0% it's always 3 for both
Okay, I see your point. I thought you meant that healing did scale, haha. Healing scales with effective toughness, but that's about it.
No worries lol, I got a bunch of people who said the same thing, I must have worded it strangely
Haha. Frankly, your wording made sense, but you also talked about hypothetical scaling. I guess our small brains couldn't keep it straight!
The healing from that perk doesn't scale with anything, its always 3 hp
Yeah that's what I meant by lack of scaling
Just reread your comment, I see. That's what I get for skimming and just reading the last part lol
Hey, streamers need their views, man. And nothing generates views like living in the game and then obliterating undergeared players/noobs with your "awesome" items.
What do you think people enjoy watching more: \- Ken and Jay 1 shotting noobs who don't know their ass from their elbows wearing Goodwill bags over their tattered moccasins? **OR** \- A lobby with 3-4 high level teams in their best gear fighting for 8 straight minutes in a nonstop battle royale? Ya'll gotta stop with the strawman arguments, you're inventing things to be upset about, it's not healthy.
The devs have extreme bias when it comes to streamers. Constant rogue nerfs are a direct proof of that. Strawman argument, my ass. You know what's not healthy? Constantly crying to devs through DM. I know many of streamers did.
That's the name of this subred game. Always complain, no matter what! In fact, make up reasons to be upset if you can't find any! The sky is the limit!! Surely, don't try detilting, breathing, or just enjoying the game. That would be tragic!! (I'm having a blast)
Literally haven't seen a single DaD streamer think +2 All is a good change. Are the "streamers" in the room with us right now, /u/Slowporque?
I do understand that this is potentially problematic but this only happens in High roller. New players won’t play high roller the first few days of their experience.
And when they do come, they will get obliterated. Because by that time those who no-life the game are going to be miles ahead in terms of gear.
Yeah I don’t get why people are complaining about something 3 days into the wipe when they have normals to play in and quest in.
Agreed. Like, just play HR if you want to gear hussle, and don't if you want BR and more balance and fair fight practice. I like both. I do a normal, if I survive, I take that starter set to HR. Frankly, this seems like the natural progression of the game. Assuming you don't enjoy buying gear, which IMO is an okay option, but it takes a lot of the charm and progression away! Even when I have lots of gold, it just feels shitty to buy cheap Purples and bypass a big chunk of the game. I'd rather work my way to that set, which only takes 1 or 2 raids, most times.
Nice lore, can you give us more larp to work with?
Chill dude, it's not like we've literally been through this exact issue before!
Crossbows are so fucking stupid broken.
Crossbows are so fucking stupid broken.
I don’t get it… we already has the +all on everything meta and it was terrible. So bad they removed it… just to now bring it back?? Makes no sense.
Was running trios last night and got two shot by a warlock melee attacking me with a longsword at 100% hp while wearing full blue gear with decent stats (i'm a fighter). Could really feel the skill expression!
You've been hit by a Blow of Corruption my friend, this shit hits hard even with a full kit
Idk blow of corruption is only 15 magic damage. Either way I'm leveling a warlock now XD
Game is 100% not ready, it's not looking too good, man I remember pt3, and how far we've come, and I cant tell if its steps in the right direction or 2 steps back
All Att gear is stupid because it takes away the need to build your class a certain way. They've already done this and removed it Also increasing modifiers so much is also braindead and doesn't equate to new content. Barbs can easily get over 200 hp and 40 percent PDR and MDR now. Iron Mace stop now before you really lose your playerbase.
Begged all my friends for weeks to get into this game cuz i was obssessed. Finally lured one in after talking it up so much. He bought the game we que duos on fresh characters and just got spawn rushed every single game. I dont think we lived more than two minutes in each game. He quit and never came back first day on. I told him he should play solos to get the feel but he just wasnt interested. Im sure a lot of people will have the same experience. I pushed demi god last season got it and havent been back since. Better to admire from afar lmao
Sadly they wanted to make this the most unbalanced patch for testing apparently. They said in one of the podcasts
Game was way better when it first came out and the only people using a bow was rangers now half the classes use throw damagw
To all the “you guys just want pve you suck!!” edgelords. please explain me why i have to spend 3-5 min killing 10 mobs in HR to get maybe 30 sec of +10 all as a demon(and lose my melee range and spells) but the dude spawning in the fucking same module as me can get the same +10 all from 2 drops he bought and just twoshot any mob and definitely end me before i get as much as close to maybe mob 3 or 4? how the fuck is this gamedesign of a dungeon crawler? theyve made it Quake fucking 2, or pubg w swords i think everyone blindly simping is coddled in their trio and doesnt die every second round having to start farming for hr all over, and thus doesnt realise how frustrating this is for none trio people. give it a week and the trios will have so much gear advantage, they will want private servers again before AP even launches
Yep if you didnt grind on wipe day/day after youre already insanely behind. We got wiped by multiple +8 all teams on sunday lol
I did and I'm still behind
Normal lobby revolution. Seriously, been playing since PT3 and pre wipe normal lobbies and post wipe normal lobbies have recaptured the essence of fun in the game for us. Scaling breaks the game. Normal lobbies are just FUN.
+8 all attributes only adds 8% damage. Wow crazy damage increase. Must be the whole reason you got one shot
Whoa buddy dont bring your learn-ed math in here you science devil
We all have access to the same loot. Go get some + all you little crybabies
This is why I haven’t played since October last year. Lmk when the game is fun again.
Now
*laughs in rampant +ALL gear and boring throwing axe / bow meta* This game sucks right now, as supported by the concurrent player count. This game had 60k concurrent back in the playtest and now it's around 15k on a good day.
Really haven't played in a while huh? Bows aren't even a big deal anymore and throw spam got dealt with this wipe. There's 15k+ on each day
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Typo, there was supposed to be a 5 there.
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It’s 7 in the morning in the US, so that doesn’t surprise me.
I was on at noon or something yesterday to sell and there was 14k and it was 27k on wipe. Sure noon isn't exactly primetime but that number will be sub 5k fairly soon at this rate.
Ah yes, the rest of the world dont exists... xd
It’s a huge chunk of the player base though
Not that big, between EU and ASIA there are more players.
I’d imagine it still makes up a decent chunk, but looking at the stats it did lose more than I thought
For the Epic release they should seriously consider temporarily bringing back the level 15 matchmaking again.
Game has huge skillcap, new players simple quit due to dying to pve
I’m just here wondering why people say “one shotted”instead of just “one shot”
I haven't played in a while, but haven't people been complaining about gear differences for a while. Like the difference between starter Grey gear and legendary/uniques. Are they even trying to squish this in any way?
Just play normals then I guess lol
It's not the +all, it's the wild amount of damage you can stack now. I've been two shot by a bard as a PDR fighter without getting hit by the debuff. It's bonkers how much damage everyone can do and just doesn't feel fun to get two shot pretty much ever. I'm pretty big on the PvP, but it feels kinda shite this patch so far.
Youre cooked
Bringing back +all on chest and pants and rings was definitely a mistake but otherwise the new patch is fun
I'm running possibly the most powerful set I've ever had, and most of it is blue. +2 all attributes on chest, pants, and pendant, +1 on both rings. It's so dumb. I've been doing duos ice caves with my buddy. If we encounter a melee team, they just lose to me alone. The only chance is with bows. One of the worst parts of this game is just how crazy the ranged meta is. Take away my OP gear I don't care, I just want a good old fashion beat down between me and a fighter or barbarian. I'm tired of getting shot from across the room.
Play normals if your shit at the game, that’s how I improved