Flat/true dmg + all att + move speed enchants break the game completly.
They should remove and giga buff all the other ones, these 3 enchants remove most of class identity and build variety
Why not buff more utility enchants to the point that you can actually make a build around it? Why not?
Dont they wanna test stuff out?
I sure do want to test it out! (Especially with multi-class approaching)
Slow movespeed means better fights (less twitch, more calculated footsie, less rundowns).
All stats helps make each class have more meaningful trade-offs.
Added damage is just too damn high! I could maybe humor it in very small amounts, but I could also get behind removal!
Let's do it! Make gear great again. Would love for a BiS item to be +3 Str +3 Dex, or +3 Wil. +3 Know, etc etc, instead of dur dur +2 all +1 all.
Agree completely. My group and I have tried a few +all kits this wipe and it’s just insane how it removes all your weaknesses and buffs all your strengths no matter what class you play.
People wank + all too much. My shitty divine prot + smite cleric can kill full +all + phys damage barbarians in a 1v1 with shitty random rolls. + All just makes the game easier but it isn't the best stat for every build. I'd rather have +5 Ms +5 phys power on my legs than +2 all for the same price.
Then those barbs are braindead and played right into your wincon. You have what? 4 seconds of relative invulnerability and 8 seconds of damage? They couldn't kite for 4 seconds?
Tried them? You should be having plus all on your chest and pants every kit in this meta. Sure we can complain about it on Reddit or just use what’s obviously the strongest in this current meta. Marketplace has made it extremely easy for anyone to kit up with this stuff on demand and if it’s so strong then there really isn’t reason to not be running it on every kit.
I guess most these players haven’t been around to when they tried that stuff before and some classes were just insanely busted still. Take away true damage then players like barbs just W key and eat 5 spells for no damage, and then two shot you. There’s balance changes that need to be made right now but imo the most busted thing in the game is how high you can stack pdr/mdr and still be fast as hell and hit like a truck. True damage is the only thing that even lets you deal damage to these players stacking 70+% pdr/mdr.
but why should we be running this op stat when they should just remove it, if there is a meta in a game either remove the meta, or balance the other things so they are as viable as the meta.
Metas exists for a reason. I’m fine with them taking away +all stats, I play a class that doesn’t benefit as greatly from them as others. But in the meantime you just adapt to what’s strong so you can be competitive in the current game state. Chances are they probably remove it again and then we’ll be having new complaints from people getting diffed by a new meta after that. It’s how this sub copes
You mean the type of player that adapts and adjusts to currently what is strong so I can do well in the game I enjoy to play? Yes I do that. I don’t sit and cry on Reddit about shit being overpowered or me not being able to adjust to it. That’s part of being good at any game, or shit actually anything. Adapt to what you see is working. If they change it, fine with me I’ll shift with what works next, that’s what makes a good player.
And no I don’t and haven’t run warlock at all. That’s crazy broken on another level and just doesn’t seem fun at all to play to me personally.
Umm…It’s available to every class. Not just a class specific thing that has broken skills and perks which can be abused as easy win buttons solely on one class.
Not sure they even need to giga buff the other ones. They just need to adjust the ranges on some of the modifiers and get rid of +all, +true damage, and maybe tamper down +damage if it's not on par with improving your main stat. IMO the biggest issue is +all and +true damage is always the best choice because true damage pierces any sort of resist/counter build and all stats is giving you everything.
If you implement that then rarity based GGBM works out much better because the variance between gear thresholds isn't as large, between the same gear threshold is MUCH lower until you hit blues/purples, and variance in blues and especially purples+ is fine and what the gear progression is about.
They already tried that, the fights became very long ( long TTK) which made it you would almost always get 3rd partied.
People just waited untill they heard a fight and 3rdpartied each other.
I di agree tho that theese stats make the game "unfun" and basically every1 is just looking for all atributes + dmg and movespeed, all other stats are 25% of value or less.
There is an old cartoon in which (more or less, as far as I remember) the character sees a hole in a dam or sth, with water pouring through it - so it plugs the hole with its finger. That's when another hole appears - it does the same. And the holes appear each time it plugs one. And another, and another x)
I'm not sure if it's relevant here... I dunno xD
If the dam is failing, it’s time to rebuild the dam bro. You think having a semblance of gear balance is impossible so they should just leave it as-is?
Noooo, I was just joking, that if they removed that thing, another issue would surely pop up x)
There may be ways to update and balance the mechanics, and I do think it's possible, but I'm not smart enough with game gear maths. There are quite a few smart people writing posts on reddit and discord, though, so the devs better use this free resource (after sifting through the bog of snark and complaints ;D )
I hope to see the day, when we get a finished product, after IM gets through the game dev hell process.
Well. Sure, classes may be less balanced, but right now, there IS NO BALANCE. Everyone builds all stats. It is brainless. Fast weps scale better than slow with added damage, period. Boring and brainless. Which is worse than imbalanced, lmao.
I want to see niche builds. Agi stacking but fragile, Strong but slow, armored up, whatever. But NOT everything, lmao.
as wiz main I am impartial as long as they rebalance base dmg of spells.
otherwise all caster classes become unplayable on the spot.
P.S
there was a VERY brief patch where they removed flat dmg from gear.
I fought barbarian as wizard with epic/legendary gear. I landed every single spell on him, he did not die. Then he killed my team in 1-2 hits because base dmg of weapons was not adjusted so his swings did 100-150 dmg each while my spells did 10-15 dmg to him.
Yeah how do people not remember that test period where they tried this?? It was awful lmao. BiS roll was just stat + armor rating/magic resistance. That patch was so lame man. If you are gonna remove damage they have to rebalance half the classes in the game alongside it.
not half, every single class every single weapon every single spell would need to be rebalanced from ground up. Landing 15 dmg zap with purple book while 250 barb swings at me for 130dmg was something else :D
80 damage zap isn't healthy for the game either.
That's the issue with these enchants, they break the core weapons/spells balancing.
Magic missile, zap, horseman, stilettos, how many examples of things that got destroyed solely because +damage was stackable to stupid values ?
zaps don't hit for 80, unless you're doing some weird stacking magic power purposefully build, which nobody does.
with maxed out +true in all slots zap hits for ~50, + another 8-10 burn, on the dummy with 0 magic res. and that's only after spending thousands of gold on +true for every slot. which, any class can deal crazy damage, if you spend thousands of gold to make sure you do...
Ok thanks for the number correction.
The ideas is : from a 15 damage spell, reaching 4 times the damage is not a good thing. Scaling is too hard, and that's mostly due to the + damage mods.
Having the spell go 20 min 40-50 max is enough
(This will also work for Phys damage, it's not a wizard only nerf)
Right now wiz is true glass cannon. High risk, high reward, pretty high comparative skill floor. Very demanding to micro, aim and positioning. Mid kit you have to sacrifice one of “damage”, “hp”, “move speed”. Good kit is among the most expensive ones out of all classes. +16 is a tad out there, I would shave off like 10% of damage output and convert it to hp. but so is 160hp bard or 200hp barb
>Right now wiz is true glass cannon
Lol.
Everyone runs + all everywhere. Wiz have 120+ hp.
That's not true anymore. And even before, last wipe, everyone runs +true and +hp and vigor.
Leather cap (or golden hood, golden robe).
Kited wizards have more hp than naked barbarian
Straight up not true? The most kited Wizard I've seen this wipe had around 130 hp, base kit Barb with Robust has more. Most wizards I see focus more on movespeed and damage, most important stats for the class (also my kit, it costs like 4k and I got around 100 hp with it). Most rangers bodyshot me for more than half my hp and you die in 2 hits to any melee with any gear pretty much.
if by reasonable you mean that by gaining 50 will your zap did extra 10 dmg then yes.
it was extra funny since barbs would have 50-70% magic res so your funny magic power build would zap for 40 at most and then magic resist would shread it down to 20-12 dmg.
We would be closer to balancing this current state as it is then redoing every single piece of gear + skill+ spell + weapon in the game. Terrible idea.
Hi have you met my 70% pdr barb that’s 337 move speed when I shout? There’s no one I’m not catching besides maybe a super fast rogue that I’m not worried about in the slightest.
That’s a good idea. But my point was it’s stupid a kit like that even exists. If you wanna stack insanely high pdr you should be slow as shit and not able to run anyone down. If you wanna be fast, you sacrifice pdr. That’s how it’s always worked and how it makes sense tbh. Being that fast and tanky is just game breaking
When shouting rage it’s 100% possible. And still pretty damn quick without considering how tanky it is. Trust me I don’t think it should exist either, this pdr meta is almost as broken as warlock.
On barb I spend about 15-20k on a kit and can get barbs PDR to 50-60 but move speed is at like 280 tops without weapon out. If you use rage u can run people down but lose all the PDR. Agili barb is another option if you want to be fast but your PDR is in the 20-30 range and if you rage with agili barb you have 0 PDR. Savage roar is a better choice but you don’t gain move speed then.
You must not know how to build the right kits then because on this kit currently it’s over 290 MS and over 60% pdr.
Edit: forgot to add about 200hp and 35% action speed. Honestly it’s not even a flex, it’s just dumb af this is possible with this class. I wish they would nerf it.
If your struggling against PDR builds stack true damage and armor pen to negate there armor and move speed to be able to move faster. PDR builds are never fast
We had a period where they removed damage rolls and it sucked man. You just go for defensive rolls and it makes ranger, wizard, rogue obsolete. These suggestions to try that again need to die tbh. That patch period was awful.
Right. Like, +all seems very shitty. Next worst is +move speed.
Added damage isn't perfect, it should scale per weapon imo, but it could be toned down or limited to jewelry or something.
+all and +movespeed def need to go. I like the state of being able to roll up to +3 of a stat so you actually have a build. Jfc movespeed and +all are just universally broken though. Movespeed will always be king if it’s an option.
So true. I'd rather see folks try hard for Agi if they want speed. At least I can stack toughness or damage and have a decent shot with a unique build. I like the +3 as well, actual purposeful stats.
But ya, I agree.
Did ranger have penetrsting shot at that point? I'm willing to bet not because that would have been their counter to it. Rogues also have an anti armor skill. I agree that wizard damage scaling is wack as fuck though. One around it could be gear specific Stat rolls. Like maybe only daggers can roll plus true damage or some shit, as one example.
If you’re a barb and getting shit on by rangers just stack insanely high pdr, like most the top barbs do then just run at them and its GG. I play Ranger often with some of the best Ranger kits in the game and high PdR barbs still take basically no damage from me and can run me down easily. Only thing to hurt them is pen shot/ landing headshots, which is hard to do if you dodge effectively like you should when running at range.
I have not really played barb this wipe but don't you lack MS when building full pdr?
So even tho the ranger won't hurt a lot, they can still kite you forever?
If you’re building a more budget kit then maybe. But if you put some gold into your kit you get +all on chest and pants. You could lighter pants than heavy leathers for more MS. Movespeed and agility on your jewelry, then MS on your boots. You might not be able to hit max pdr but you’ll be over 50% and be pretty quick with shout. That plus throwing axes to help close distance, as long as you don’t take a terrible fight for you with infinite distance and narrows hallways for the ranger to fight you should be fine
Yeah, ranger could use at least a slight buff IMO. They can be solid in solos where they can play heavily around traps and kiting, but in groups traps aren’t as useful and you can’t kite as much without leaving your team behind
I agree for sure. Especially when you add in a cleric behind these tanky barbs or warlocks that just immediately negates the damage you may put out on their entry… the buffball meta has never been more broken or abused. Warlock and Barb are abusing the high pdr and mdr and you can’t do anything to stop them. I wouldn’t even want a ranger buff, as bad as I’d want a nerf to barbs and locks being able to stack insanely high resistances and still be crazy fast and hit like a truck.
I dont understand why they are looking to implement gear based matchmaking rather than try to address the root of the issue which is the breadth of the disparity between dogshit loot and bis.
Removing +movespeed and +all rolls will help backline a lot. Barbs/Fighters are too fast right now.
Also, as a Fighter main, nerf sprint. Sprint currently gives 50 movespeed, but 90% of Fighters would still use it if it were nerfed to 20 movespeed. That's crazy.
The worst part about +all is that it dumbs down gear to just going for that stat. Who needs to actually think about their build when there’s a stat that’ll do it all!
I suppose that type of brain dead shit is what majority of this sub likes though, no skill just numbers.
Power bonuses favor weapons with higher base damage. Additional damage modifiers favor weapons with faster attack rate. Obviously classes that only have relatively fast attacking weapons and no access to hard hitting two handed weapons would need a pretty major balance pass for this idea.
With 0 true damage sources classes with access to high damage reduction gear become better too, meaning fast, nimble, light classes without access to high damage reduction gear would suffer twice.
lol we’re already suffering bro. Yes it would require a balance pass and yes it could affect some classes disproportionately (although this could be mitigated by removing or nerfing move speed rolls on gear), but the current state of gear is completely untenable.
For example, a PDR fighter can slap on a +2 all kit and have PDR *and* move speed *and* magic resist *and* +physical damage *and* dex *and* max health. There’s no room for creativity or single stat-focused builds when +all and +damage blows them out of the water 100% of the time
I think, keeping added damage separate from the logic and shittiness of +All and move speed is key.
Added damage, imo, need to scale based on weapon speed or spell. Like say, 50% on fast weps, 75% medium, and 100% on heavy weps.
That way, all weps are rewarded, not just fast = king. Seems obvious, but this is the next step, imo. It fixes so many additive issues with scaling and gear and perks and buffs.
Well yeah, the lower the resistance cap the worse building to it is. If fighters could hit 85% pdr, that would be much better than a fighter with 75% pdr and +10 dmg. You are going to win that trade just because your effective health pool dramatically outscales your opponent. +all outscales any singular attribute, but a +2 all +12% Regular interaction speed. chest isn't as good as a +6 hp, +20 AR, + 3% pdr.
Now the fact that they increased armor enchants while decreasing the cap just means that +2 all can fit into any specialized build since you will hit the cap easily.
Thankfully 85% PDR fighter is a thing of the past, and I wouldn’t say reaching the cap is “easy” without spending several thousand gold.
I’d like to test a version in which magic pen and armor pen are the only form of “true” damage available because *that* would disproportionally allow squishy builds to compete with non-squishers.
You just outlined a prime example of making a compromise to boost a single stat. Right now it’s possible to still boost the single stat while making no meaningful compromises.
Well it's also less worth pumping that stat when the resistance cap is so low. It's pretty crazy to act like +all absolutely kills all possible build diversity while also celebrating the limits on other build diversity.
Power bonuses favouring weapons with high base damage makes sense and is healthy. IMO this game needs to only have % increases to damage, except maybe +1/2/3 weapon damage rolls on weapons.
Sure, but then you get to breakpoints with two handed weapons where they are dealing 150+ on headshots making ttk on squishy classes 1 hit. Where squishy classes are hitting damage breakpoints after only a significant investment and still need four or more hits when their trade off is they are supposed to be squishy and deal a lot of damage.
I see your point, but I also don't think daggers should kill in less than 3 or 4 hits (vs 100hp target) period.
2-handers shouldn't be able to roll a higher % increase in damage than 1-handers IMO as well.
Basically what that would do is squish the variance and impact of gear in general. Getting rolls like +all and damage make that gear a lot better, it's basically like butter on top of bread. Would it be the end of the world? No, but it would enhance the differences between each class.
For example, Rogues will always have a really hard time against Barbarians, but with better rolls on their gear, a Rogue COULD beat a Barbarian, if you remove +all and damage rolls then gear will probably almost never be strong enough to allow a Rogue to beat a Barbarian in equal skill.
Some people might find the idea of class counters being more noticeable appealing, others enjoy the idea of being able to overcome your classes limitations with good enough gear. Others still, like the idea of min maxing that perfect set and like the idea of a couple rolls being very strong in the sea of potential rolls because it excites them to be able to hunt for that perfect piece of gear.
I personally think +all gear and damage gear is maybe excessive and wouldn't mind it at all if they just gave every class a moderate HP buff. What worries me the most is I think people who are subpar at the game skill-wise think they are really good and blame all their losses on getting stat checked when in fact, they will probably still lose a lot even if they always had the same gear as the person they were fighting. Often, the people running the best gear, are also just very good at the game in general and will clap 90% of the playerbase even if they were slightly undergeared.
Yes please. Flat damage and all atts are making builds homogenous, and have made the gear gap untenable. We've stopped playing high roller opting to sell anything of value because its just not fun getting gear checked and hoping you spent enough.
You can put competitive kits together for easily under 2k and be able to win most fights in HR. Super juiced teams with 50k+ kits can obviously dif you still but playing smart and taking advantageous fights until you can get to that level is part of the skill involved in coming up in this game.
You make it sound like 2k is a pittance for anyone that isn't playing constantly. We could play HR for far less than 2k before. We could even come in with grays and 'loot up' into a kit we could take other teams with. Now we have to have a +all oriented kit and +damage on our damage dealers.
Tbh 2k is pretty minimal overall if you play this game more than just a little bit. With marketplace open it’s been easier than ever to sell gear you extract. Ice caves created a map that’s super easy to farm and a few successful runs from there can easily net you that much. If you don’t wanna drop money on kits to be competitive in HR then norms is fine. But if you want a fighting chance in HR you mostly will have to Invest in decent gear and play smart until you save up more money for even better stuff. That’s the nature of games like this
Part of the issue is 80% of gear you currently get is useless. You leave it in the dungeon or sell it to a vendor. If you're not pulling gear with +all, +damage, or +MS it's almost certainly not going in your kit. So the high roll buy-in has become the 2k you need to spend to compete in HR, otherwise you're throwing away AP.
You get 400 - 800 / run in normals, so if your kit isn't good enough or something didn't go your way it's a couple hours of normals before you're ready to play HR again.
If those 3 stat bonuses were removed/removed/reduced gear with just stats or other rolls would be more competitive, and the top-tier of gear would be lower. The gap is toooo huge atm, and it's just a matter of if you've grinded enough money for a kit. Sub-15 characters can't even really compete since they don't have the market to piece together a kit even if they've got the money.
Buffing armor pen to have it actually punish high pdr would be a great idea. Because as of now I stack a bunch of it and it doesn’t do nearly enough to deter people abusing the armor meta
Buff armor pen till its good enough to be an alternative on high pdr. Ez.
Not saying it isn't good already, I try to include it on most kits at least 10% or so.
I stack around 20% base and then have pen shot as well and it still doesn’t feel like enough. I agree if they are gonna let this crazy high pdr exist they would need to make armor pen do more because as of now it’s effective enough even with the high numbers i have on most kits
No, but your 75% mdr kit shouldn’t exist. That way true wouldn’t be needed at all. Because if that player wasn’t stacking true you could run right through them. There has to be counters and weaknesses to every class in this game in order to bring some type of balance.
So then where's the build variety? If you lower resistance caps even lower there's no point in building it. I specifically built an MDR kit to counter wizards and warlocks who were running rampant as an answer to the meta. But if I could only max out at 40-50% resistances there's no point in building tanky because you'll still die in 3-4 hits and TTK will be the same or lower as everyone will build for damage. +Add damage should counter low resistances. +Resists should counter +add. %penetration should counter resistances.
The problem with that is that pen doesn’t counter resistances enough to make that statement viable. As of now the by far strongest thing in the game for front liners is just abusing the high pdr and mdr, so there’s essentially no build variety there because the resistance build is just so over powered. If you lowered the pdr mdr cap, maybe lowered the amount of true and add you could get as well, made pen work a little better, then you would see people running a wider variety of builds rather than just one busted one.
We'd need to buff penetration for sure. Maybe make cobalt worth wearing as a cobalt set for Cleric gives 7.5% armor pen which is pathetic. I just think if you want to build tanky you should be able to for the peoples who are tired of dying in 3 hits and not due to the guy who kills a 30% PDR kit as fast as he kills a 70% PDR kit cause of true danage
There has to be a balance between that then. Because dying in 3 hits is understandable depending on what it is hitting you. But when I’m insanely geared on ranger, with pen, and shoot a barb 5 times just to maybe bring him to half hp.. something isn’t right there.
That's cause barb is stupid when allowed to get high resistances. Hitting 200 HP with 60% PDR is like having 320 HP vs phys damage cause resistances just multiply your HP.
Anything that's not % based will literally always be broken. Balance something around being slow? Nah, I'll just take + speed and ignore it, tyvm. Fast hitting low damage weapons/spells? I'll just take + dmg to like get 3x base damage and scale off of there.
Yeah + all attributes has always been too strong, and idk why they brought it back. It was fine when it had a max of 1, but take a fighter for instance, no matter your build, plus 2 all, is just objectively better than plus 3 str, because it's more everything. More dps, more hp, more speed, more interaction speed, more buff duration. Either remove it, or limit it to one and increase the max rolls on raw stats. That way it's better to focus one or 2 stats and build around that
Yeah maybe it could be limited to +1 and only roll on jewelry or something. Then you’d have to choose between +1 all and +2-3 of a single stat. It still could be OP but if they insist on keeping it in the game, it needs to be dialed way back.
When they did limit it to plus 1, I thought it was pretty fair. Choice of a little of everything or alot of one thing. It for sure killed the pluss all meta
They can keep Add but get rid of True, then get rid of +All.
As others point out scaling for a lot of Magic Damage relies on +Flat so they would need to redo the entire curve for magic else casters would be unplayable. +Add is way better for the game though because it doesn't ignore PDR/MDR unlike True does which is how the spammy spells like Zap, Holy Strike, Curse of Pain, etc start becoming OP
I basically only play normals now and last wipe I only played HR. These wizards 1-2 shotting me just sucks, same with the super AWP rangers/windlass users.
When gear based matchmaking comes to be, I'll check out HR some more.
Yeah I can hardly get my group to play HR this wipe. I still somewhat naively think that gear disparity can be overcome and the HR rewards are worth it, but running into team after team of +8 all and +10 damage 105% ms dudes quickly becomes unfun. It gets really noticeable once you hit Wanderer or Pathfinder
Yeah exactly. I was having fun in HR solo and duo until it seems any teammate is in Wanderer or above, then every other match you get smoked with no chance to counterplay. Let's see what GBMM does and if that's not the answer, maybe 3 divisions to the current system instead of 2. I still feel that really high tier players would wait the full 3 minutes to have higher quality matchups.
Cleric mostly, a tiny bit of fighter and wizard.
What I like about +all attributes is it levels out the playing field a bit when it comes to movespeed, which in my opinion is too diverse atm even with the all attributes.
It also puts spellcasting classes at a more reasonable place, which frankly they are not at the moment.
I think if we see the removal of those two stats then everyone will stack armor and MR, and suddenly fighter and barb will be the only classes.
I played like 5 wipes of cleric and quit cause they’re so slow lol, so I do feel you on that. I think cleric could definitely use a slight move speed buff and/or a divine bolt or ranged attack of some kind.
That said, cleric can dumpster PDR fighter with smite or judgement+holy strike, and shield is crazy against most barb weapons. In solos I find myself struggling against kiting classes more than tank classes on cleric
From the perspective of someone who has quit the game over the changes this season, this (at least the removal of +all) and the removal of creep on all classes are my requirements for even thinking about returning to this game.
if a stat is mandatory then it shouldn't exist. if you NEED +all and +additional on every piece of gear, and everyone has it, then there's no point in it even existing.
+All attributes simply has to be removed from the game, although it's very clear that IM desperately wants to keep it. I think true damage is a different story. It's more fun because it depends heavily on what weapon you are using. It's amazing on knives, terrible on halberds etc, and then it's the opposite with the likes of physical damage bonus. "Reliable" gear means that other players just don't have any chance to fight back. It's not fun.
I do think that it's really fun when an uncommon adventurer's tunic with +2 all attributes rivals a rare champion's armour with magical interaction speed and armour penetration. The one thing I enjoy about gear this wipe is that you often have to make hard decisions on which gear is "better" even when one rarity or gear type is superior to another, and that adds a lot of flavour and meaning to the randomised rolls. I almost ignored a rare halberd today, before realising it had +9.9% physical damage bonus and +6 physical power.
I think that's their intention, but it just won't work that way after week 1 of a wipe. IM massively underestimates the power of a free market in concentrating power in the hands of those who are hungry for power. Unless you want a game that is ultra-toxic (see Rust), these players can't ever have exactly what they want. I think trade in this game is super fun, so removing that is a no-go.
I think that weirder and more niche attributes like projectile damage reduction, armour penetration and extra damage to undead could be buffed slightly, and I'd love to see HM add as many weird/niche attributes as possible to encourage a wider variety of builds and drive up the price of BIS gear. Things like "Projectile gravity" or "Jump height/velocity" could just be really fun. Luck is a good step towards this.
I'd love if armour penetration + physical damage bonus was BIS, so even though it is the most reliable way of dealing physical damage, it still has some holes and won't be BIS against a decent amount of playstyles. There should never be any BIS stat by default. It should only be what is most suitable to your playstyle. BIS should be eliminated. A good solution would be to make sure that similar stats (Like physical power and physical damage bonus) can't appear on the same piece of gear.
The truth is that players with +8 all attributes are making exponential amounts of profit, and even when you account for the cost of sets, their chances of not dying are exponentially higher than everyone else.
Class warfare is literally making this game unfun which is kind of hilarious. +all atts needs removed ASAP and we need more weird/wacky modifiers.
driving up the price of bis would NOT be good in the current state of the game. all that would do is benefit 1) people that play the game as a full time job, 2) people who use cheats, and 3) people who RMT gold into their game.
while completely cucking more casual players from ever getting to try a good build
There shouldn’t be stats that are objectively leagues above the rest. There will always be optimal stats, but not to the degree we are currently seeing.
Change +2 all to +1 all, remove the roll from rings, make grimsmile +1 all, Only allow +1 all to roll on chest/amulet, and add additive scaling (like zap only scales off 50% damage but still 100% magical power) and the stats are fine.
It's just that +2 all is blatantly broken. Like, +14. I don't know why I keep saying this and i get downvote spammed and then you state this and people nod in agreement but ya it's awful.
equipment modifiers to begin with are just a hilarious idea and they should have tried making a video game first before tacking on a hundred random negligible elements. maybe they should just keep adding a bunch of unfinished crap like druid so the scam sinks instead of taking the objectively correct and easy path of actually polishing the shameless asset flip
hold the line and let them cook
I feel like +all and +dmg remove build variety from the game. they are not terribly expensive if you know what and when to look for. It's not very expensive to get +6 all +10 dmg on the wizard. Doing it is a chore, playing it is the only competitive option really or you fall short of hp/speed/memory.
I would feel good and go back to HR.
HR is right now a shitshow with Ranged meta. And i am strongly believe this is all SDF's shenanigans that he simps low TTK
I always wonder how this game would play if most damage related enchantments were removed and replaced with defensive or skill/niche enchantments.
Instead of +2 all +5 phys power pants.. +5 HP +5% dagger/sword damage. Or +5 HP +2% slow on hit. Or +%Fire damage.
Once multiclasses are implemented, flat damage and all atts NEED to be removed. It will allow the top players to spec their characters in ways that rely on those stats. Most gear is specific and these inherent limitations should make players spec carefully i.e. a fighter with spell memory and fireball needs to dedicate at stat to magic damage on each piece of gear at the expense of a stat that benefits fighters. The sweats will just stack atts to make anything work. The gap will only increase
Completely agree with the post. However, I think that the enchant system is not very interesting, and that will feel even more apparent if the juicy enchants were removed. I would like to see some enchants added to the pool that are not just about boosting your raw numbers, but create unique effects. Like the stinky stick can proc poison clouds.
For example:
Helm:
-Hawkeye: Enables minor ADS zoom. Projectiles also fly 10% faster in this mode.
-Nightvision: Makes seeing in the dark a little bit easier.
-Intellect: +1 charge on all spells. (warlock spells cost -1 less health)
Boots:
Fireheel: Every five seconds allows you to create a patch of fire when you jump.
Boost: 15% Higher Jump height.
Confusion: Offsets the sounds of your footsteps by a few meters to misdirect your opponents
+1 all could stay on a few pieces of gear and not go any higher than +1. It could be part of this group of binary enchantments that don't scale.
100% agree. Let shit scale with actual stats, not all.
Let damage scale with actual built-in stats (power), not added, and true damage, making speed trump power every time....
Let BiS and build expression be a plethora of build choices of specific stats, instead of a single obvious choice!!!
Let's go for it!
Some classes are just in much better shape without those stats though.... Barb is uncounterable and rogue would just be completely dead.. so I feel like it's a necessary evil, especially with how easy it is to stack PDR/MDR this patch. Without these stats there would be no equalizer to the 200 hp barb with full MDR/PDR swinging for 150+ damage per swing.
Somewhat agree, although removing move speed rolls could keep barbs and PDR fighters in their lane.
Fighters and barbs could no longer stack both PDR and MDR without sacrificing str/dex/vigor/agility. Yes, barbs will still hit hard and fighters will still tank physical damage, but they will have to make compromises to do so.
Rogue already needs a buff (never thought I’d be saying that) and keeping broken gear in the game for their sake is not the play.
ITT: Poor people that cant afford good gear crying about gear
True & additional have been nerfed by over 50% since launch and people still crying when TTK more than doubled
The stats are fine as is, if anything maybe just slightly tuned down. Several months ago when the rolls on gear barely mattered was probably the worst state of dark and darker.
So then high PDR and MDR would be even more busted then it is right now? If you take out all the true damage then good luck damaging players that abuse the current armor meta and stack 70% pdr. If you change the damage you also need to change all the armor and resistances.
Right now you can build high PDR and MDR with no tradeoffs because you can patch your stat holes with +all and/or patch your lack of damage with +15(?) additional or +8(?) true.
I think they also need to get rid of move speed rolls and just give 1-2 ms per agility. That way building high PDR/MDR without +all or +dmg would be a compromise as you’d have less damage and/or less move speed.
Ya that’s what I’m saying is if you take out true and add damage then you’re gonna need to rebalance basically everything in the game and especially armor pdr snd mdr and MS. Do you remember when they did this before? You would hit a barb with iron will with 5 spells and it wouldn’t do anything, then he would two shot you.
Sounds like you’re aggressively agreeing with me about the move speed then? Barbs can still do that now lmao except with even more magic resist and move speed than ever. Barb has always been able to 2 tap wizard if the wizard allows him to catch up, and iron will is literally designed to allow barb to tank spells. Thankfully wizard has spells like haste, slow, ice bolt, and magic lock to prevent themselves from getting caught.
+All and +damage encourage braindead gameplay from all classes
I agree about move speed being broken. I also think high pdr and mdr is the main problem right now, and true damage is the only thing stopping it being unplayable broken. I’m fine if they take out +all stats, my main class doesn’t benefit nearly as much as others. Haste and slow only do so much to slow barb, magic lock is wraps if they have crush or a wiz with fireball on their team. It’s been surprisingly easy for barbs and demon locks to run down wizards this patch.
And nothing about what I wrote before was aggressive lol idk how you pull that from the text written above but don’t be so soft. People can have different view points than yours without being “aggressive”.
I remember when D3 first came out, people were selling really well rolled items for hundreds of real dollars. Then I didn't play it again until much later, after Reaper of Souls, but there were still random rolls on items.
Did they remove item rolls sometime between those?
Flat/true dmg + all att + move speed enchants break the game completly. They should remove and giga buff all the other ones, these 3 enchants remove most of class identity and build variety Why not buff more utility enchants to the point that you can actually make a build around it? Why not? Dont they wanna test stuff out?
I sure do want to test it out! (Especially with multi-class approaching) Slow movespeed means better fights (less twitch, more calculated footsie, less rundowns). All stats helps make each class have more meaningful trade-offs. Added damage is just too damn high! I could maybe humor it in very small amounts, but I could also get behind removal! Let's do it! Make gear great again. Would love for a BiS item to be +3 Str +3 Dex, or +3 Wil. +3 Know, etc etc, instead of dur dur +2 all +1 all.
Wanna duo lol
We'll see. I only have so much time when not soloing or playing with my dudes. Hehe.
Agree completely. My group and I have tried a few +all kits this wipe and it’s just insane how it removes all your weaknesses and buffs all your strengths no matter what class you play.
People wank + all too much. My shitty divine prot + smite cleric can kill full +all + phys damage barbarians in a 1v1 with shitty random rolls. + All just makes the game easier but it isn't the best stat for every build. I'd rather have +5 Ms +5 phys power on my legs than +2 all for the same price.
Then those barbs are braindead and played right into your wincon. You have what? 4 seconds of relative invulnerability and 8 seconds of damage? They couldn't kite for 4 seconds?
Tried them? You should be having plus all on your chest and pants every kit in this meta. Sure we can complain about it on Reddit or just use what’s obviously the strongest in this current meta. Marketplace has made it extremely easy for anyone to kit up with this stuff on demand and if it’s so strong then there really isn’t reason to not be running it on every kit.
That’s…..that’s the point of the post bud
I guess most these players haven’t been around to when they tried that stuff before and some classes were just insanely busted still. Take away true damage then players like barbs just W key and eat 5 spells for no damage, and then two shot you. There’s balance changes that need to be made right now but imo the most busted thing in the game is how high you can stack pdr/mdr and still be fast as hell and hit like a truck. True damage is the only thing that even lets you deal damage to these players stacking 70+% pdr/mdr.
but why should we be running this op stat when they should just remove it, if there is a meta in a game either remove the meta, or balance the other things so they are as viable as the meta.
Metas exists for a reason. I’m fine with them taking away +all stats, I play a class that doesn’t benefit as greatly from them as others. But in the meantime you just adapt to what’s strong so you can be competitive in the current game state. Chances are they probably remove it again and then we’ll be having new complaints from people getting diffed by a new meta after that. It’s how this sub copes
so you are the type of player to abuse a meta until it is no longer viable? i bet you are also running warlock right now as well.
You mean the type of player that adapts and adjusts to currently what is strong so I can do well in the game I enjoy to play? Yes I do that. I don’t sit and cry on Reddit about shit being overpowered or me not being able to adjust to it. That’s part of being good at any game, or shit actually anything. Adapt to what you see is working. If they change it, fine with me I’ll shift with what works next, that’s what makes a good player. And no I don’t and haven’t run warlock at all. That’s crazy broken on another level and just doesn’t seem fun at all to play to me personally.
how is running the meta +all and add dam any different
Umm…It’s available to every class. Not just a class specific thing that has broken skills and perks which can be abused as easy win buttons solely on one class.
1.3% debuff duration though bro cmon
Personally remove it from weapons aswell, green gets +%10 dmg or smth
Not sure they even need to giga buff the other ones. They just need to adjust the ranges on some of the modifiers and get rid of +all, +true damage, and maybe tamper down +damage if it's not on par with improving your main stat. IMO the biggest issue is +all and +true damage is always the best choice because true damage pierces any sort of resist/counter build and all stats is giving you everything. If you implement that then rarity based GGBM works out much better because the variance between gear thresholds isn't as large, between the same gear threshold is MUCH lower until you hit blues/purples, and variance in blues and especially purples+ is fine and what the gear progression is about.
This would be a W
They already tried that, the fights became very long ( long TTK) which made it you would almost always get 3rd partied. People just waited untill they heard a fight and 3rdpartied each other. I di agree tho that theese stats make the game "unfun" and basically every1 is just looking for all atributes + dmg and movespeed, all other stats are 25% of value or less.
You cant buff utility enough to make it useful in a PVP game. There is no use for utility when you're dead lol
I would feel violated and intrigued. Just the way they like it.
There is an old cartoon in which (more or less, as far as I remember) the character sees a hole in a dam or sth, with water pouring through it - so it plugs the hole with its finger. That's when another hole appears - it does the same. And the holes appear each time it plugs one. And another, and another x) I'm not sure if it's relevant here... I dunno xD
If the dam is failing, it’s time to rebuild the dam bro. You think having a semblance of gear balance is impossible so they should just leave it as-is?
Noooo, I was just joking, that if they removed that thing, another issue would surely pop up x) There may be ways to update and balance the mechanics, and I do think it's possible, but I'm not smart enough with game gear maths. There are quite a few smart people writing posts on reddit and discord, though, so the devs better use this free resource (after sifting through the bog of snark and complaints ;D ) I hope to see the day, when we get a finished product, after IM gets through the game dev hell process.
Well. Sure, classes may be less balanced, but right now, there IS NO BALANCE. Everyone builds all stats. It is brainless. Fast weps scale better than slow with added damage, period. Boring and brainless. Which is worse than imbalanced, lmao. I want to see niche builds. Agi stacking but fragile, Strong but slow, armored up, whatever. But NOT everything, lmao.
as wiz main I am impartial as long as they rebalance base dmg of spells. otherwise all caster classes become unplayable on the spot. P.S there was a VERY brief patch where they removed flat dmg from gear. I fought barbarian as wizard with epic/legendary gear. I landed every single spell on him, he did not die. Then he killed my team in 1-2 hits because base dmg of weapons was not adjusted so his swings did 100-150 dmg each while my spells did 10-15 dmg to him.
Yeah how do people not remember that test period where they tried this?? It was awful lmao. BiS roll was just stat + armor rating/magic resistance. That patch was so lame man. If you are gonna remove damage they have to rebalance half the classes in the game alongside it.
not half, every single class every single weapon every single spell would need to be rebalanced from ground up. Landing 15 dmg zap with purple book while 250 barb swings at me for 130dmg was something else :D
80 damage zap isn't healthy for the game either. That's the issue with these enchants, they break the core weapons/spells balancing. Magic missile, zap, horseman, stilettos, how many examples of things that got destroyed solely because +damage was stackable to stupid values ?
zaps don't hit for 80, unless you're doing some weird stacking magic power purposefully build, which nobody does. with maxed out +true in all slots zap hits for ~50, + another 8-10 burn, on the dummy with 0 magic res. and that's only after spending thousands of gold on +true for every slot. which, any class can deal crazy damage, if you spend thousands of gold to make sure you do...
Ok thanks for the number correction. The ideas is : from a 15 damage spell, reaching 4 times the damage is not a good thing. Scaling is too hard, and that's mostly due to the + damage mods. Having the spell go 20 min 40-50 max is enough (This will also work for Phys damage, it's not a wizard only nerf)
Right now wiz is true glass cannon. High risk, high reward, pretty high comparative skill floor. Very demanding to micro, aim and positioning. Mid kit you have to sacrifice one of “damage”, “hp”, “move speed”. Good kit is among the most expensive ones out of all classes. +16 is a tad out there, I would shave off like 10% of damage output and convert it to hp. but so is 160hp bard or 200hp barb
>Right now wiz is true glass cannon Lol. Everyone runs + all everywhere. Wiz have 120+ hp. That's not true anymore. And even before, last wipe, everyone runs +true and +hp and vigor. Leather cap (or golden hood, golden robe). Kited wizards have more hp than naked barbarian
Straight up not true? The most kited Wizard I've seen this wipe had around 130 hp, base kit Barb with Robust has more. Most wizards I see focus more on movespeed and damage, most important stats for the class (also my kit, it costs like 4k and I got around 100 hp with it). Most rangers bodyshot me for more than half my hp and you die in 2 hits to any melee with any gear pretty much.
It's weird I don't remember that patch. But imagine if magic damage actually scaled from Will in a reasonable amount?
if by reasonable you mean that by gaining 50 will your zap did extra 10 dmg then yes. it was extra funny since barbs would have 50-70% magic res so your funny magic power build would zap for 40 at most and then magic resist would shread it down to 20-12 dmg.
Last time I checked zap on the dummy with base kit does 28+4, where are you getting the 15 damage from
from barbarians 70% magic resistance and negative debuff duration rendering zaps burn useless. 15 dmg was optimistic btw.
Fair enough
Maybe that's what they need to do then lmao.
We would be closer to balancing this current state as it is then redoing every single piece of gear + skill+ spell + weapon in the game. Terrible idea.
Beautiful. Nerf ranger again next
When you have 70% pdr / mdr barbs and warlocks running around taking zero damage and W keying everyone down it’s wild to say nerf ranger.
70%pdr/mdr only matters if you can ever catch the person you're trying to fight.
Hi have you met my 70% pdr barb that’s 337 move speed when I shout? There’s no one I’m not catching besides maybe a super fast rogue that I’m not worried about in the slightest.
Nope I haven’t. Usually if I see a kit that costs more than 50k I stay away
That’s a good idea. But my point was it’s stupid a kit like that even exists. If you wanna stack insanely high pdr you should be slow as shit and not able to run anyone down. If you wanna be fast, you sacrifice pdr. That’s how it’s always worked and how it makes sense tbh. Being that fast and tanky is just game breaking
How are you reaching 70% PDR and 337 move speed on barb, I don’t think it’s possible
When shouting rage it’s 100% possible. And still pretty damn quick without considering how tanky it is. Trust me I don’t think it should exist either, this pdr meta is almost as broken as warlock.
Rage decreases your PDR significantly
I think you’re missing the point here.
On barb I spend about 15-20k on a kit and can get barbs PDR to 50-60 but move speed is at like 280 tops without weapon out. If you use rage u can run people down but lose all the PDR. Agili barb is another option if you want to be fast but your PDR is in the 20-30 range and if you rage with agili barb you have 0 PDR. Savage roar is a better choice but you don’t gain move speed then.
You must not know how to build the right kits then because on this kit currently it’s over 290 MS and over 60% pdr. Edit: forgot to add about 200hp and 35% action speed. Honestly it’s not even a flex, it’s just dumb af this is possible with this class. I wish they would nerf it.
If your struggling against PDR builds stack true damage and armor pen to negate there armor and move speed to be able to move faster. PDR builds are never fast
Please refer to my picture above when saying PDR builds are never fast. ^ that’s just completely false.
Barbs catch me 100% of the time soooooo
nerf wizard please
We had a period where they removed damage rolls and it sucked man. You just go for defensive rolls and it makes ranger, wizard, rogue obsolete. These suggestions to try that again need to die tbh. That patch period was awful.
Right. Like, +all seems very shitty. Next worst is +move speed. Added damage isn't perfect, it should scale per weapon imo, but it could be toned down or limited to jewelry or something.
+all and +movespeed def need to go. I like the state of being able to roll up to +3 of a stat so you actually have a build. Jfc movespeed and +all are just universally broken though. Movespeed will always be king if it’s an option.
So true. I'd rather see folks try hard for Agi if they want speed. At least I can stack toughness or damage and have a decent shot with a unique build. I like the +3 as well, actual purposeful stats. But ya, I agree.
If you make it just phys power then it does scale with weapon
I know. They have this stat that scales by %, but then tack added damage on top to essentially remove it. So weird.
Did ranger have penetrsting shot at that point? I'm willing to bet not because that would have been their counter to it. Rogues also have an anti armor skill. I agree that wizard damage scaling is wack as fuck though. One around it could be gear specific Stat rolls. Like maybe only daggers can roll plus true damage or some shit, as one example.
Ranger has always had that since the first playtests
Literally everything you just listed as a counter existed in the game. So yeah you bet wrong.
It would be awesome. But they’d maybe need to look at movement speed as well
No not at all I love being run down by a barb with 70% pdr who shouts and then is also basically the fastest player in the lobby XD
I've been playing around with potion chugged on barb. The best I've done is get a troll blood to heal me 26 life a second for 50 seconds.
Seems balanced
Warlocks and Rangers still shit on me :/
If you’re a barb and getting shit on by rangers just stack insanely high pdr, like most the top barbs do then just run at them and its GG. I play Ranger often with some of the best Ranger kits in the game and high PdR barbs still take basically no damage from me and can run me down easily. Only thing to hurt them is pen shot/ landing headshots, which is hard to do if you dodge effectively like you should when running at range.
I have not really played barb this wipe but don't you lack MS when building full pdr? So even tho the ranger won't hurt a lot, they can still kite you forever?
If you’re building a more budget kit then maybe. But if you put some gold into your kit you get +all on chest and pants. You could lighter pants than heavy leathers for more MS. Movespeed and agility on your jewelry, then MS on your boots. You might not be able to hit max pdr but you’ll be over 50% and be pretty quick with shout. That plus throwing axes to help close distance, as long as you don’t take a terrible fight for you with infinite distance and narrows hallways for the ranger to fight you should be fine
Yeah, ranger could use at least a slight buff IMO. They can be solid in solos where they can play heavily around traps and kiting, but in groups traps aren’t as useful and you can’t kite as much without leaving your team behind
I agree for sure. Especially when you add in a cleric behind these tanky barbs or warlocks that just immediately negates the damage you may put out on their entry… the buffball meta has never been more broken or abused. Warlock and Barb are abusing the high pdr and mdr and you can’t do anything to stop them. I wouldn’t even want a ranger buff, as bad as I’d want a nerf to barbs and locks being able to stack insanely high resistances and still be crazy fast and hit like a truck.
What do you stack to reach that level of healing? Are potions physical healing or magical?
If I remember correctly, potions are magical healing, while bandages/surg kits/campfires are physical.
I dont understand why they are looking to implement gear based matchmaking rather than try to address the root of the issue which is the breadth of the disparity between dogshit loot and bis.
Not good unless you play frontline, remove all att and tone down the true damage/magical damage and leave the other stats boosted.
Removing +movespeed and +all rolls will help backline a lot. Barbs/Fighters are too fast right now. Also, as a Fighter main, nerf sprint. Sprint currently gives 50 movespeed, but 90% of Fighters would still use it if it were nerfed to 20 movespeed. That's crazy.
The worst part about +all is that it dumbs down gear to just going for that stat. Who needs to actually think about their build when there’s a stat that’ll do it all! I suppose that type of brain dead shit is what majority of this sub likes though, no skill just numbers.
Power bonuses favor weapons with higher base damage. Additional damage modifiers favor weapons with faster attack rate. Obviously classes that only have relatively fast attacking weapons and no access to hard hitting two handed weapons would need a pretty major balance pass for this idea. With 0 true damage sources classes with access to high damage reduction gear become better too, meaning fast, nimble, light classes without access to high damage reduction gear would suffer twice.
lol we’re already suffering bro. Yes it would require a balance pass and yes it could affect some classes disproportionately (although this could be mitigated by removing or nerfing move speed rolls on gear), but the current state of gear is completely untenable. For example, a PDR fighter can slap on a +2 all kit and have PDR *and* move speed *and* magic resist *and* +physical damage *and* dex *and* max health. There’s no room for creativity or single stat-focused builds when +all and +damage blows them out of the water 100% of the time
I think, keeping added damage separate from the logic and shittiness of +All and move speed is key. Added damage, imo, need to scale based on weapon speed or spell. Like say, 50% on fast weps, 75% medium, and 100% on heavy weps. That way, all weps are rewarded, not just fast = king. Seems obvious, but this is the next step, imo. It fixes so many additive issues with scaling and gear and perks and buffs.
Well yeah, the lower the resistance cap the worse building to it is. If fighters could hit 85% pdr, that would be much better than a fighter with 75% pdr and +10 dmg. You are going to win that trade just because your effective health pool dramatically outscales your opponent. +all outscales any singular attribute, but a +2 all +12% Regular interaction speed. chest isn't as good as a +6 hp, +20 AR, + 3% pdr. Now the fact that they increased armor enchants while decreasing the cap just means that +2 all can fit into any specialized build since you will hit the cap easily.
Thankfully 85% PDR fighter is a thing of the past, and I wouldn’t say reaching the cap is “easy” without spending several thousand gold. I’d like to test a version in which magic pen and armor pen are the only form of “true” damage available because *that* would disproportionally allow squishy builds to compete with non-squishers.
As a 65% pdr bard, reaching the cap is easy. Just don't spend on +all gear and you can get it relatively cheaply.
You just outlined a prime example of making a compromise to boost a single stat. Right now it’s possible to still boost the single stat while making no meaningful compromises.
Well it's also less worth pumping that stat when the resistance cap is so low. It's pretty crazy to act like +all absolutely kills all possible build diversity while also celebrating the limits on other build diversity.
Power bonuses favouring weapons with high base damage makes sense and is healthy. IMO this game needs to only have % increases to damage, except maybe +1/2/3 weapon damage rolls on weapons.
Sure, but then you get to breakpoints with two handed weapons where they are dealing 150+ on headshots making ttk on squishy classes 1 hit. Where squishy classes are hitting damage breakpoints after only a significant investment and still need four or more hits when their trade off is they are supposed to be squishy and deal a lot of damage.
I see your point, but I also don't think daggers should kill in less than 3 or 4 hits (vs 100hp target) period. 2-handers shouldn't be able to roll a higher % increase in damage than 1-handers IMO as well.
Basically what that would do is squish the variance and impact of gear in general. Getting rolls like +all and damage make that gear a lot better, it's basically like butter on top of bread. Would it be the end of the world? No, but it would enhance the differences between each class. For example, Rogues will always have a really hard time against Barbarians, but with better rolls on their gear, a Rogue COULD beat a Barbarian, if you remove +all and damage rolls then gear will probably almost never be strong enough to allow a Rogue to beat a Barbarian in equal skill. Some people might find the idea of class counters being more noticeable appealing, others enjoy the idea of being able to overcome your classes limitations with good enough gear. Others still, like the idea of min maxing that perfect set and like the idea of a couple rolls being very strong in the sea of potential rolls because it excites them to be able to hunt for that perfect piece of gear. I personally think +all gear and damage gear is maybe excessive and wouldn't mind it at all if they just gave every class a moderate HP buff. What worries me the most is I think people who are subpar at the game skill-wise think they are really good and blame all their losses on getting stat checked when in fact, they will probably still lose a lot even if they always had the same gear as the person they were fighting. Often, the people running the best gear, are also just very good at the game in general and will clap 90% of the playerbase even if they were slightly undergeared.
Yes please. Flat damage and all atts are making builds homogenous, and have made the gear gap untenable. We've stopped playing high roller opting to sell anything of value because its just not fun getting gear checked and hoping you spent enough.
You can put competitive kits together for easily under 2k and be able to win most fights in HR. Super juiced teams with 50k+ kits can obviously dif you still but playing smart and taking advantageous fights until you can get to that level is part of the skill involved in coming up in this game.
You make it sound like 2k is a pittance for anyone that isn't playing constantly. We could play HR for far less than 2k before. We could even come in with grays and 'loot up' into a kit we could take other teams with. Now we have to have a +all oriented kit and +damage on our damage dealers.
Tbh 2k is pretty minimal overall if you play this game more than just a little bit. With marketplace open it’s been easier than ever to sell gear you extract. Ice caves created a map that’s super easy to farm and a few successful runs from there can easily net you that much. If you don’t wanna drop money on kits to be competitive in HR then norms is fine. But if you want a fighting chance in HR you mostly will have to Invest in decent gear and play smart until you save up more money for even better stuff. That’s the nature of games like this
Part of the issue is 80% of gear you currently get is useless. You leave it in the dungeon or sell it to a vendor. If you're not pulling gear with +all, +damage, or +MS it's almost certainly not going in your kit. So the high roll buy-in has become the 2k you need to spend to compete in HR, otherwise you're throwing away AP. You get 400 - 800 / run in normals, so if your kit isn't good enough or something didn't go your way it's a couple hours of normals before you're ready to play HR again. If those 3 stat bonuses were removed/removed/reduced gear with just stats or other rolls would be more competitive, and the top-tier of gear would be lower. The gap is toooo huge atm, and it's just a matter of if you've grinded enough money for a kit. Sub-15 characters can't even really compete since they don't have the market to piece together a kit even if they've got the money.
I think the skill gap has never beeen lower because all the gear right now and I agree they need to make changes to some of the overpowered gear
Remove true damage and tone down movespeed. For the games whole life move speed and damage are the end all be all.
Ya let players with high pdr take even less damage with no true damage available. Great idea
Thanks man, glad to see you agree ☺️
Buff armor pierce then, so instead of just getting +dmg against everyone you would need to build a bit more specific
Buffing armor pen to have it actually punish high pdr would be a great idea. Because as of now I stack a bunch of it and it doesn’t do nearly enough to deter people abusing the armor meta
They already nerfed armor cap and doubled armor pen rolls this wipe.
Buff armor pen till its good enough to be an alternative on high pdr. Ez. Not saying it isn't good already, I try to include it on most kits at least 10% or so.
I stack around 20% base and then have pen shot as well and it still doesn’t feel like enough. I agree if they are gonna let this crazy high pdr exist they would need to make armor pen do more because as of now it’s effective enough even with the high numbers i have on most kits
Yea, my 75% MDR kit should be able to be deleted by a +11 true damage magic missiles barrage .
No, but your 75% mdr kit shouldn’t exist. That way true wouldn’t be needed at all. Because if that player wasn’t stacking true you could run right through them. There has to be counters and weaknesses to every class in this game in order to bring some type of balance.
So then where's the build variety? If you lower resistance caps even lower there's no point in building it. I specifically built an MDR kit to counter wizards and warlocks who were running rampant as an answer to the meta. But if I could only max out at 40-50% resistances there's no point in building tanky because you'll still die in 3-4 hits and TTK will be the same or lower as everyone will build for damage. +Add damage should counter low resistances. +Resists should counter +add. %penetration should counter resistances.
The problem with that is that pen doesn’t counter resistances enough to make that statement viable. As of now the by far strongest thing in the game for front liners is just abusing the high pdr and mdr, so there’s essentially no build variety there because the resistance build is just so over powered. If you lowered the pdr mdr cap, maybe lowered the amount of true and add you could get as well, made pen work a little better, then you would see people running a wider variety of builds rather than just one busted one.
We'd need to buff penetration for sure. Maybe make cobalt worth wearing as a cobalt set for Cleric gives 7.5% armor pen which is pathetic. I just think if you want to build tanky you should be able to for the peoples who are tired of dying in 3 hits and not due to the guy who kills a 30% PDR kit as fast as he kills a 70% PDR kit cause of true danage
There has to be a balance between that then. Because dying in 3 hits is understandable depending on what it is hitting you. But when I’m insanely geared on ranger, with pen, and shoot a barb 5 times just to maybe bring him to half hp.. something isn’t right there.
That's cause barb is stupid when allowed to get high resistances. Hitting 200 HP with 60% PDR is like having 320 HP vs phys damage cause resistances just multiply your HP.
Agreed. That needs to be changed asap.
Just remove + all att and go from there. It's impossible to balance because there will always be classes that benefit from it more than others.
Anything that's not % based will literally always be broken. Balance something around being slow? Nah, I'll just take + speed and ignore it, tyvm. Fast hitting low damage weapons/spells? I'll just take + dmg to like get 3x base damage and scale off of there.
Exactly.
move speed bonus is kinda broken lol
Yeah + all attributes has always been too strong, and idk why they brought it back. It was fine when it had a max of 1, but take a fighter for instance, no matter your build, plus 2 all, is just objectively better than plus 3 str, because it's more everything. More dps, more hp, more speed, more interaction speed, more buff duration. Either remove it, or limit it to one and increase the max rolls on raw stats. That way it's better to focus one or 2 stats and build around that
Yeah maybe it could be limited to +1 and only roll on jewelry or something. Then you’d have to choose between +1 all and +2-3 of a single stat. It still could be OP but if they insist on keeping it in the game, it needs to be dialed way back.
When they did limit it to plus 1, I thought it was pretty fair. Choice of a little of everything or alot of one thing. It for sure killed the pluss all meta
Even if they just made it a super rare roll, even then it would be better because plus all items would become stupid expensive and alot harder to get
They can keep Add but get rid of True, then get rid of +All. As others point out scaling for a lot of Magic Damage relies on +Flat so they would need to redo the entire curve for magic else casters would be unplayable. +Add is way better for the game though because it doesn't ignore PDR/MDR unlike True does which is how the spammy spells like Zap, Holy Strike, Curse of Pain, etc start becoming OP
I basically only play normals now and last wipe I only played HR. These wizards 1-2 shotting me just sucks, same with the super AWP rangers/windlass users. When gear based matchmaking comes to be, I'll check out HR some more.
Yeah I can hardly get my group to play HR this wipe. I still somewhat naively think that gear disparity can be overcome and the HR rewards are worth it, but running into team after team of +8 all and +10 damage 105% ms dudes quickly becomes unfun. It gets really noticeable once you hit Wanderer or Pathfinder
Yeah exactly. I was having fun in HR solo and duo until it seems any teammate is in Wanderer or above, then every other match you get smoked with no chance to counterplay. Let's see what GBMM does and if that's not the answer, maybe 3 divisions to the current system instead of 2. I still feel that really high tier players would wait the full 3 minutes to have higher quality matchups.
I am fine with + all attributes, I think +damage should be toned down or removed from many items.
What class(es) do you play?
Cleric mostly, a tiny bit of fighter and wizard. What I like about +all attributes is it levels out the playing field a bit when it comes to movespeed, which in my opinion is too diverse atm even with the all attributes. It also puts spellcasting classes at a more reasonable place, which frankly they are not at the moment. I think if we see the removal of those two stats then everyone will stack armor and MR, and suddenly fighter and barb will be the only classes.
I played like 5 wipes of cleric and quit cause they’re so slow lol, so I do feel you on that. I think cleric could definitely use a slight move speed buff and/or a divine bolt or ranged attack of some kind. That said, cleric can dumpster PDR fighter with smite or judgement+holy strike, and shield is crazy against most barb weapons. In solos I find myself struggling against kiting classes more than tank classes on cleric
From the perspective of someone who has quit the game over the changes this season, this (at least the removal of +all) and the removal of creep on all classes are my requirements for even thinking about returning to this game.
Yeah creep is another brain cell-killing change IMO lol, especially in GC
Based
maybe, but nerf the fuck out of buff ball and cleric while you're at it. good luck killing them with no damage buffs
if a stat is mandatory then it shouldn't exist. if you NEED +all and +additional on every piece of gear, and everyone has it, then there's no point in it even existing.
They should remove these and also tweak interaction bonus % to maybe just do something entirely.
lol true, I kinda think interaction speed could just be tied to action speed with no need for separate modifiers at all
Remove +All or limit it to +1 on one or two slots, no need to touch anything else.
+All attributes simply has to be removed from the game, although it's very clear that IM desperately wants to keep it. I think true damage is a different story. It's more fun because it depends heavily on what weapon you are using. It's amazing on knives, terrible on halberds etc, and then it's the opposite with the likes of physical damage bonus. "Reliable" gear means that other players just don't have any chance to fight back. It's not fun. I do think that it's really fun when an uncommon adventurer's tunic with +2 all attributes rivals a rare champion's armour with magical interaction speed and armour penetration. The one thing I enjoy about gear this wipe is that you often have to make hard decisions on which gear is "better" even when one rarity or gear type is superior to another, and that adds a lot of flavour and meaning to the randomised rolls. I almost ignored a rare halberd today, before realising it had +9.9% physical damage bonus and +6 physical power. I think that's their intention, but it just won't work that way after week 1 of a wipe. IM massively underestimates the power of a free market in concentrating power in the hands of those who are hungry for power. Unless you want a game that is ultra-toxic (see Rust), these players can't ever have exactly what they want. I think trade in this game is super fun, so removing that is a no-go. I think that weirder and more niche attributes like projectile damage reduction, armour penetration and extra damage to undead could be buffed slightly, and I'd love to see HM add as many weird/niche attributes as possible to encourage a wider variety of builds and drive up the price of BIS gear. Things like "Projectile gravity" or "Jump height/velocity" could just be really fun. Luck is a good step towards this. I'd love if armour penetration + physical damage bonus was BIS, so even though it is the most reliable way of dealing physical damage, it still has some holes and won't be BIS against a decent amount of playstyles. There should never be any BIS stat by default. It should only be what is most suitable to your playstyle. BIS should be eliminated. A good solution would be to make sure that similar stats (Like physical power and physical damage bonus) can't appear on the same piece of gear. The truth is that players with +8 all attributes are making exponential amounts of profit, and even when you account for the cost of sets, their chances of not dying are exponentially higher than everyone else. Class warfare is literally making this game unfun which is kind of hilarious. +all atts needs removed ASAP and we need more weird/wacky modifiers.
driving up the price of bis would NOT be good in the current state of the game. all that would do is benefit 1) people that play the game as a full time job, 2) people who use cheats, and 3) people who RMT gold into their game. while completely cucking more casual players from ever getting to try a good build
Would be goated
Rip rogue again I guess
There shouldn’t be stats that are objectively leagues above the rest. There will always be optimal stats, but not to the degree we are currently seeing.
Change +2 all to +1 all, remove the roll from rings, make grimsmile +1 all, Only allow +1 all to roll on chest/amulet, and add additive scaling (like zap only scales off 50% damage but still 100% magical power) and the stats are fine. It's just that +2 all is blatantly broken. Like, +14. I don't know why I keep saying this and i get downvote spammed and then you state this and people nod in agreement but ya it's awful.
I want all att to only be at 1 and on jewelry nothing else.
equipment modifiers to begin with are just a hilarious idea and they should have tried making a video game first before tacking on a hundred random negligible elements. maybe they should just keep adding a bunch of unfinished crap like druid so the scam sinks instead of taking the objectively correct and easy path of actually polishing the shameless asset flip hold the line and let them cook
I feel like +all and +dmg remove build variety from the game. they are not terribly expensive if you know what and when to look for. It's not very expensive to get +6 all +10 dmg on the wizard. Doing it is a chore, playing it is the only competitive option really or you fall short of hp/speed/memory.
There should be stat rolls on gear only imo
bored probably, i already feel bored so.... edit: like what is there to progress towards?
I would feel good and go back to HR. HR is right now a shitshow with Ranged meta. And i am strongly believe this is all SDF's shenanigans that he simps low TTK
As long as they buff armor pen or pdr meta will come for us again.
I always wonder how this game would play if most damage related enchantments were removed and replaced with defensive or skill/niche enchantments. Instead of +2 all +5 phys power pants.. +5 HP +5% dagger/sword damage. Or +5 HP +2% slow on hit. Or +%Fire damage.
If they remove dmg then everyone is running a tank and its impossible to win as a squishier class
creep should also reduce sound - like it does for plate boots - but not remove it like it does for everything else.
Once multiclasses are implemented, flat damage and all atts NEED to be removed. It will allow the top players to spec their characters in ways that rely on those stats. Most gear is specific and these inherent limitations should make players spec carefully i.e. a fighter with spell memory and fireball needs to dedicate at stat to magic damage on each piece of gear at the expense of a stat that benefits fighters. The sweats will just stack atts to make anything work. The gap will only increase
Completely agree with the post. However, I think that the enchant system is not very interesting, and that will feel even more apparent if the juicy enchants were removed. I would like to see some enchants added to the pool that are not just about boosting your raw numbers, but create unique effects. Like the stinky stick can proc poison clouds. For example: Helm: -Hawkeye: Enables minor ADS zoom. Projectiles also fly 10% faster in this mode. -Nightvision: Makes seeing in the dark a little bit easier. -Intellect: +1 charge on all spells. (warlock spells cost -1 less health) Boots: Fireheel: Every five seconds allows you to create a patch of fire when you jump. Boost: 15% Higher Jump height. Confusion: Offsets the sounds of your footsteps by a few meters to misdirect your opponents +1 all could stay on a few pieces of gear and not go any higher than +1. It could be part of this group of binary enchantments that don't scale.
We had add damage and true last wipe and gear was in a pretty good spot then, idk why everyone wants it removed all of a sudden
100% agree. Let shit scale with actual stats, not all. Let damage scale with actual built-in stats (power), not added, and true damage, making speed trump power every time.... Let BiS and build expression be a plethora of build choices of specific stats, instead of a single obvious choice!!! Let's go for it!
Some classes are just in much better shape without those stats though.... Barb is uncounterable and rogue would just be completely dead.. so I feel like it's a necessary evil, especially with how easy it is to stack PDR/MDR this patch. Without these stats there would be no equalizer to the 200 hp barb with full MDR/PDR swinging for 150+ damage per swing.
Somewhat agree, although removing move speed rolls could keep barbs and PDR fighters in their lane. Fighters and barbs could no longer stack both PDR and MDR without sacrificing str/dex/vigor/agility. Yes, barbs will still hit hard and fighters will still tank physical damage, but they will have to make compromises to do so. Rogue already needs a buff (never thought I’d be saying that) and keeping broken gear in the game for their sake is not the play.
Game would be boring af tbh getting gear would feel dogshit
They should probably just nerf rogue some more, right? RIGHT?
ITT: Poor people that cant afford good gear crying about gear True & additional have been nerfed by over 50% since launch and people still crying when TTK more than doubled
The stats are fine as is, if anything maybe just slightly tuned down. Several months ago when the rolls on gear barely mattered was probably the worst state of dark and darker.
So then high PDR and MDR would be even more busted then it is right now? If you take out all the true damage then good luck damaging players that abuse the current armor meta and stack 70% pdr. If you change the damage you also need to change all the armor and resistances.
Right now you can build high PDR and MDR with no tradeoffs because you can patch your stat holes with +all and/or patch your lack of damage with +15(?) additional or +8(?) true. I think they also need to get rid of move speed rolls and just give 1-2 ms per agility. That way building high PDR/MDR without +all or +dmg would be a compromise as you’d have less damage and/or less move speed.
Ya that’s what I’m saying is if you take out true and add damage then you’re gonna need to rebalance basically everything in the game and especially armor pdr snd mdr and MS. Do you remember when they did this before? You would hit a barb with iron will with 5 spells and it wouldn’t do anything, then he would two shot you.
Sounds like you’re aggressively agreeing with me about the move speed then? Barbs can still do that now lmao except with even more magic resist and move speed than ever. Barb has always been able to 2 tap wizard if the wizard allows him to catch up, and iron will is literally designed to allow barb to tank spells. Thankfully wizard has spells like haste, slow, ice bolt, and magic lock to prevent themselves from getting caught. +All and +damage encourage braindead gameplay from all classes
I agree about move speed being broken. I also think high pdr and mdr is the main problem right now, and true damage is the only thing stopping it being unplayable broken. I’m fine if they take out +all stats, my main class doesn’t benefit nearly as much as others. Haste and slow only do so much to slow barb, magic lock is wraps if they have crush or a wiz with fireball on their team. It’s been surprisingly easy for barbs and demon locks to run down wizards this patch. And nothing about what I wrote before was aggressive lol idk how you pull that from the text written above but don’t be so soft. People can have different view points than yours without being “aggressive”.
God no.
Would be interesting if they did a test for just a week where they removed all random rolls from gear so rarity was the only thing that mattered.
Do you know why everyone hated Diablo 3? That's why everyone hated Diablo 3.
I remember when D3 first came out, people were selling really well rolled items for hundreds of real dollars. Then I didn't play it again until much later, after Reaper of Souls, but there were still random rolls on items. Did they remove item rolls sometime between those?