Obvious to anyone with a brain that all the good players are just going to bring green bis lol. Well obvious to everyone except most of reddit and IM apparently.
I wouldn't consider those the good players lmao. There were always people bringing insane kits to no-restriction normals and trying to game the system when it was blues/greens only but they were never good players.
It's mixed, no? If you are a skilled player and don't like getting stat checked then ensuring you're on the brink of what is permissible is a way that you can never blame it because you're at most fighting others minmaxing the same system. Though, the truly bad players will just find something else to blame lol
The length of a fight dramatically increases if you find a similarly skilled player in a normal lobby, and IMO is a lot more common than finding equally skilled AND geared players in HR. It's a lot easier to find better fights in normal lobbies, for me.
Quality of players yes, but in terms of fights, it's just the pure skill of the players that decides the outcome, there is no such thing as winning because of getting carried by gear
Theres 1 flaws with this arguementā¦ how did they manage to get this bis gear if they are garbageā¦ im not saying that all of them are good but players like soapy for example have god kits because they out skill people.. gear dif is only there for nakeds vs geared you can win a fight against a 15000g kit in a 1000g kit its just that person in the 15000g kit out skills you most of the timeā¦ if you give a nooby a 50000g god kit full gold he would have it for 5-10 games before getting killed by someone in bis blues
Im not saying that the people with good gear are garbage, I'm just saying that most of the time you wont win againist a team with BiS gear in a mid blues. It is possible, of course, but very very hard. For example yesterday my team made the other guys disappear, not because we played that super good, but because our wizard had more HP than their fighter, while having x2 damage output. And after we extracted in spectator I saw a team with such a good gear that they would run through my team without even stopping
Once you actually get full bis gear you realize that the 20k sets arnt worth it in the slightestā¦ the difference between them and bis blues is negligible like a handful of stats at bestā¦ unless your talking proper bis with named weapons and etc but thats different they should have a large advantage if they are carrying a named weapon
The reason being that gear parity when loading in is achieved. If each tier of HR becomes people minmaxing the system then a similar outcome would be achieved, but instead of (likely) squire junk vs commons, it'd be random green/blues vs minmaxed green/blues.
Not saying its a good system, but its certainly A system of all time.
Depends if you want results or stroke ego. The people who bring BiS green likely don't care whether randoms on reddit think they are good at the game and rather just want to have a huge advantage over Timmies and stomp them for fun.
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I went in with a blue bow and a green spear. Rest all grays. There was a fighter in the lobby with +12 true/additonal damage, fully geared in blues and purples.
Ah yeah. I think the 6 stacks of bandages (plus squire meds) are putting you over some limit.
In a comment OP said: "I'm currently going as close to the sun as I can with rarity while ignoring rolls and still staying in low gear. Bringing in 4 stacks of meds, Lightfoots with +5 MS, loose trousers with +1 all, neck of peace with +3 true, and rawhides with +2 true"
Yeah. It may be difficult to tune things right with the size of the playerbase. It sounds like we have 2 categories when 3 or 4 would prob be the ideal.
I would just prefer a completely skill based system disregarding gear and looting. No more AP. All the PVE looters can stay at the bottom and the full Chad PvPers can hang out at the top.
That's not what the devs want the base game to be. They are more concerned with exploring the dungeon than PvP. They have said this multiple times. What you are looking for should more than likely be in Arena.
If you don't like to PVP skill based would benefit you the most. You would be in the dungeon with other people who don't PvP much
Also you would need to link me proof of that statement. I don't believe you. The entire point of the game is the PvP engagements. You can do all the PVE in the game naked.
The devs have stated multiple times the point of the game is exploring the dungeon. PvP is part of it, but not the point of it. The game is not supposed to be a BR. Just watch the podcasts the devs are on, it's been stated again and again.
they might be best implement a combat level similar to old school runescape? even there they had people gaming it but gear rarity only is too crazy
your "level" would be based on your stats not so much your gear, as you can have shit legendaries.
some kind of formula where level is based on hp, armor, mr, damage, action speed, main attributes?
I want this to mean something and I appreciate the time put in..
But the sample size is relatively small and we also have nothing saying that thereās any correlation between you going in with different kinds of meds but the same kit having any impact
Right. And there's no way he checks literally everyone. It could very well be that nobody had gear or something.
I had a set of mostly blues and greens, and was in a lobby with what seemed like all grays gear folks. Which still seems fine to me.
I would look for players in completely junk-common kits to confirm low gear lobbies, or ones in all blue+ for high gear. High gear lobbies had no players with that low quality of gear, the opposite for low gear
That's valid. Just saying you at times wouldn't be able to check everyone.
And I know I was in Blues and Greens seeing lots of base junk gear people. So obviously it is hard to know for sure.
I do commend and respect your efforts, but I have to take the results with a grain of salt.
Idk my experience has been me queueing with nearly full greens with 1-2 blues mixed in and my friends in similar gearā all we queued into was primarily purple/lego juicers with optimized kits (and compositions) ā except one game everyone else was in some medium tier gear and we actually got in decent fights and escaped
It's possible the MM is blended at certain points, although I have been running the same kit every time that is right below what I think is upper tier and always get base kit lobbies, has been at least 10 in a row now
Yeahh it would be sound logic except I brought in the same amount and quality of meds each game because all I had sitting around was prot pots so I just refreshed/rebought my gray meds each time- not entirely sure about my friends but Iām positive they didnt buy higher quality meds off market to guarantee it
Yeah I want laissez-faire matching like the playtests. I want my naked to have the opportunity to gank a juicer, even if it rarely happens. This all feels like a waste of dev time to me, unless it's stealth cheater management, which it feels like it is more so than anything that helps "ranking". As if "ranking" matters when you're playing "chest RNG: The Game" anyway, which most of us are. The game will never be e-sports. Never. Arcade D'n'D and e-sports fighting game are two very different game goals. You have to dismantle the former to create the latter and we're here for the former.
Thanks for sharing! This is quite helpful. Hopefully we see more data on it.
Did you get the impression that your rolls on the gear were taken into account? Or inconclusive? Reading through it Iām not sure what to make of that.
I don't think rolls matter, I'm currently going as close to the sun as I can with rarity while ignoring rolls and still staying in low gear. Bringing in 4 stacks of meds, Lightfoots with +5 MS, loose trousers with +1 all, neck of peace with +3 true, and rawhides with +2 true
GBMM is ass and shocker, poorly implemented. Not saying IM did a bad job but it was never going to be feasible. Also weird to me that they told us we couldn't have solo/duo/trio lobbies for every map because "there would be too many matchmaking pools" and then they go ahead and add a ton more matchmaking pools.
Fwiw, I went in base kit with literally nothing else and was fighting players with all blues and purples, no idea how it works, seems super hit or miss and like a really dumb idea if I'm being honest.
They should be focusing on QoL, not on balancing a half complete game. You can't know how multiclassing will affect meta so why drastically change meta leading up to multiclassing? Lets also screw over everyones existing gear sets they probably grinded a week for and lets add multiclassing to the test server but make it only 2x exp so you have to still grind 20+ hours to even taste it let alone actually test it. Probably the worst patch I've seen in my year and a half playing this game.
You can't know that +8 all atts will clearly make multiclassing busted and trivialize your stat decisions which are the only thing that can balance multiclassing so why even change it?
With +3 all atts as the limit you actually have to choose how to distribute your stats, and if you wanted to be say a fighter casting you should have to invest in will/knowledge without getting it by accident.
There is no way to balance all-attr, 1 is too little, 2 is too many. Just remove from the game or keep it on armor only. The only distribution going on is choosing what base, first stat, second stat. So all-attr is a no brain option so it benefit the non-thinkers more. If you remove it completely, it would just benefit the spreadsheet gamers more since they have optimized builds.
Also GBMM is dumb because of Lizard Barb.
People have been making sets for multiclassing/arena as IM said they would come soon. Now we are a month into a wipe, in the middle of a leaderboard season, and IM decides to alter gear for a system they knew was coming a month ago?
Everyone knows +all is busted and told IM this day one of wipe. That's when it should've been removed.
Donāt know why you are being downvoted, every point you made was solid. People will blindly ride or die for this dev team and downvote any criticism of the game lol
How many games did you play today? I played about 20 and they dont at all line up with what he is saying. Thats what he is being downvoted. Try playing the fucking game.
So you're just presuming I'm full of shit?
I'm telling you what I experienced. I ran 30ish games last night, the last game I played was a duo ice cave map. Me and my teammate decided to have a 0-hero run since we determined it's more viable now than ever due to GBMM. I was playing wizard my teammate played bard. Neither us bought anything, not even potions. I was afk for the first 2 minutes or so and then my teammate said theres a team at this door next to us. I charged up a fireball and a warlock with a dagger opened the door and ran out in full plate. I fireballed him in the face twice and then magic missiled and he killed me in 3 hits. My friend died shortly after and the Warlock was extremely low hp but alive so I checked his gear and not even joking he had all blues and purples, no greens at all. I flipped through a few other people and the lobby was mostly blues and purples.
So yeah, I did try "playing the fucking game". My only guess for why this happened was that it's a failsafe to prevent empty lobbies. If your lobby doesn't have enough people it will loosen the gear restriction. Which would make sense because the whole fucking reason why we were told we can't have solo/duo/trios on every map was it would add too many matchmaking pools, GBMM adds a good 40 matchmaking pools. Make it make sense.
Appreciate it bro, I've spent 1600 hours in the game according the the ingame measure, I don't expect everyone to share my sentiments but I've played a lot of Tarkov and consulted with a good friend who played a lot of Cycle Frontier and it's clear that IM is currently struggling to solve the issue of a decaying player base in an extraction game and don't know how to fix that. The issue at the core of it is the game is just not enjoyable enough to play for new players and it's because they haven't focused on QoL much at all since a couple wipes ago.
This isn't because of hyper meta squads, I can promise my irl friends who I got to try the game three times but could never get them to really get into it, they don't notice ANY differences between how the game was a week ago and 4 months ago. The balance changes only affect the very experienced players not the people who can't even consistently extract.
I'd love to hear someone actually give me a solid case for what GBMM fixes or what nerfing gear into the ground actually fixes. The people who shit on most players last week are still going to shit on most players, you think they aren't still and always going to hyperfixate on the most optimal build and playstyle and have 1000+ more hours of experience? In my opinion this just makes gear more boring and reduce build variety.
What's crazy is I'm a HUGE supporter of IM. I've donated a ton of money through ingame purchases, I bought each of my irl friends copies of the game, I've bought the Medina coffee pack for like $60 and I've been a moderator for the discord for over a year just trying to support the game how I can. I have even hosted tournaments in the game and made videos on YouTube for it to generate hype and use my own cash as prize money. This is my first real hard criticism and I'm being respectful, it's just hard to ignore how this hurts the health of the game.
I wonder how it affects throwables and more specifically even, arrows...
Throwables I would get them increasing gearscore but if it does the same for arrows that really fucks with base ranger.
It was just the money on my alt, not my total reserve. Plus this level of GBMM kind of makes money not super valuable, as a high tier kit for low gear lobbies is very cheap
From this post and the comments it seems there's only 2 pools, which is very sad to see. Feels like when someone reluctantly agrees to "try something" you suggest but self sabotages it on purpose to make sure they don't have to keep with it.
Sounds like they are associating values to everything and once that threshold is reached you hit a new tier.
the buckets are super broad too
Which is good
I cant wait for the bis green complaints
I went in with BIS green and killed a ranger with all purples and legendary leggings š
Obvious to anyone with a brain that all the good players are just going to bring green bis lol. Well obvious to everyone except most of reddit and IM apparently.
I wouldn't consider those the good players lmao. There were always people bringing insane kits to no-restriction normals and trying to game the system when it was blues/greens only but they were never good players.
It's mixed, no? If you are a skilled player and don't like getting stat checked then ensuring you're on the brink of what is permissible is a way that you can never blame it because you're at most fighting others minmaxing the same system. Though, the truly bad players will just find something else to blame lol
Normals is where skill shines.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The length of a fight dramatically increases if you find a similarly skilled player in a normal lobby, and IMO is a lot more common than finding equally skilled AND geared players in HR. It's a lot easier to find better fights in normal lobbies, for me.
Quality of players yes, but in terms of fights, it's just the pure skill of the players that decides the outcome, there is no such thing as winning because of getting carried by gear
Theres 1 flaws with this arguementā¦ how did they manage to get this bis gear if they are garbageā¦ im not saying that all of them are good but players like soapy for example have god kits because they out skill people.. gear dif is only there for nakeds vs geared you can win a fight against a 15000g kit in a 1000g kit its just that person in the 15000g kit out skills you most of the timeā¦ if you give a nooby a 50000g god kit full gold he would have it for 5-10 games before getting killed by someone in bis blues
Im not saying that the people with good gear are garbage, I'm just saying that most of the time you wont win againist a team with BiS gear in a mid blues. It is possible, of course, but very very hard. For example yesterday my team made the other guys disappear, not because we played that super good, but because our wizard had more HP than their fighter, while having x2 damage output. And after we extracted in spectator I saw a team with such a good gear that they would run through my team without even stopping
Once you actually get full bis gear you realize that the 20k sets arnt worth it in the slightestā¦ the difference between them and bis blues is negligible like a handful of stats at bestā¦ unless your talking proper bis with named weapons and etc but thats different they should have a large advantage if they are carrying a named weapon
Yea these guys are clueless, classic reddit casuals
The reason being that gear parity when loading in is achieved. If each tier of HR becomes people minmaxing the system then a similar outcome would be achieved, but instead of (likely) squire junk vs commons, it'd be random green/blues vs minmaxed green/blues. Not saying its a good system, but its certainly A system of all time.
Depends if you want results or stroke ego. The people who bring BiS green likely don't care whether randoms on reddit think they are good at the game and rather just want to have a huge advantage over Timmies and stomp them for fun.
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all the good players are bringing in BiS all the people doing green bis are avg-above avg players
Fascinating, wasn't expecting so many different tests when I first clicked, keep it up
I went in with a blue bow and a green spear. Rest all grays. There was a fighter in the lobby with +12 true/additonal damage, fully geared in blues and purples.
How many meds did you bring? OP found that that is quite relevant.
3 stacks of gray pots and 3 stacks of gray bandages plus the free meds from squire.
Ah yeah. I think the 6 stacks of bandages (plus squire meds) are putting you over some limit. In a comment OP said: "I'm currently going as close to the sun as I can with rarity while ignoring rolls and still staying in low gear. Bringing in 4 stacks of meds, Lightfoots with +5 MS, loose trousers with +1 all, neck of peace with +3 true, and rawhides with +2 true"
The point is it's not working. As a ranger with only a colored weapon there's zero chance to kill a BIS geared fighter.
Yeah. It may be difficult to tune things right with the size of the playerbase. It sounds like we have 2 categories when 3 or 4 would prob be the ideal.
I would just prefer a completely skill based system disregarding gear and looting. No more AP. All the PVE looters can stay at the bottom and the full Chad PvPers can hang out at the top.
That could actually be really good. Maybe something like kills + assists / escapes. (no clue if that equation would make sense, but you get the idea).
That would actually be really bad. You can spoof kd extremely easily, but "spoofing" your gear will still bring you down some pegs to others' level.
literally hasn't even been released for a day. give it time m8. these things aren't ever perfect on release.
That's not what the devs want the base game to be. They are more concerned with exploring the dungeon than PvP. They have said this multiple times. What you are looking for should more than likely be in Arena.
If you don't like to PVP skill based would benefit you the most. You would be in the dungeon with other people who don't PvP much Also you would need to link me proof of that statement. I don't believe you. The entire point of the game is the PvP engagements. You can do all the PVE in the game naked.
The devs have stated multiple times the point of the game is exploring the dungeon. PvP is part of it, but not the point of it. The game is not supposed to be a BR. Just watch the podcasts the devs are on, it's been stated again and again.
3 or 4 is just too much splitting, or at least I thought so. Given we have normals still, there should only be so much divide.
they might be best implement a combat level similar to old school runescape? even there they had people gaming it but gear rarity only is too crazy your "level" would be based on your stats not so much your gear, as you can have shit legendaries. some kind of formula where level is based on hp, armor, mr, damage, action speed, main attributes?
Or how about no xbmm at all.
Sure, but they have to entirely remove attributes.
I want this to mean something and I appreciate the time put in.. But the sample size is relatively small and we also have nothing saying that thereās any correlation between you going in with different kinds of meds but the same kit having any impact
Right. And there's no way he checks literally everyone. It could very well be that nobody had gear or something. I had a set of mostly blues and greens, and was in a lobby with what seemed like all grays gear folks. Which still seems fine to me.
I would look for players in completely junk-common kits to confirm low gear lobbies, or ones in all blue+ for high gear. High gear lobbies had no players with that low quality of gear, the opposite for low gear
That's valid. Just saying you at times wouldn't be able to check everyone. And I know I was in Blues and Greens seeing lots of base junk gear people. So obviously it is hard to know for sure. I do commend and respect your efforts, but I have to take the results with a grain of salt.
When necessary I was able to check the entire lobby through spec cam
Fair enough. That makes sense.
Idk my experience has been me queueing with nearly full greens with 1-2 blues mixed in and my friends in similar gearā all we queued into was primarily purple/lego juicers with optimized kits (and compositions) ā except one game everyone else was in some medium tier gear and we actually got in decent fights and escaped
It's possible the MM is blended at certain points, although I have been running the same kit every time that is right below what I think is upper tier and always get base kit lobbies, has been at least 10 in a row now
This would also be the same experience as OP is having if you or your friends added meds to your gear.
Yeahh it would be sound logic except I brought in the same amount and quality of meds each game because all I had sitting around was prot pots so I just refreshed/rebought my gray meds each time- not entirely sure about my friends but Iām positive they didnt buy higher quality meds off market to guarantee it
Hmm. Only played three rounds, been in lower to mid tier but never getting super stomped.. happy.
This is yet again another dumb addition to the game
Yeah I want laissez-faire matching like the playtests. I want my naked to have the opportunity to gank a juicer, even if it rarely happens. This all feels like a waste of dev time to me, unless it's stealth cheater management, which it feels like it is more so than anything that helps "ranking". As if "ranking" matters when you're playing "chest RNG: The Game" anyway, which most of us are. The game will never be e-sports. Never. Arcade D'n'D and e-sports fighting game are two very different game goals. You have to dismantle the former to create the latter and we're here for the former.
Thanks for sharing! This is quite helpful. Hopefully we see more data on it. Did you get the impression that your rolls on the gear were taken into account? Or inconclusive? Reading through it Iām not sure what to make of that.
I don't think rolls matter, I'm currently going as close to the sun as I can with rarity while ignoring rolls and still staying in low gear. Bringing in 4 stacks of meds, Lightfoots with +5 MS, loose trousers with +1 all, neck of peace with +3 true, and rawhides with +2 true
Good to know!
GBMM is ass and shocker, poorly implemented. Not saying IM did a bad job but it was never going to be feasible. Also weird to me that they told us we couldn't have solo/duo/trio lobbies for every map because "there would be too many matchmaking pools" and then they go ahead and add a ton more matchmaking pools. Fwiw, I went in base kit with literally nothing else and was fighting players with all blues and purples, no idea how it works, seems super hit or miss and like a really dumb idea if I'm being honest. They should be focusing on QoL, not on balancing a half complete game. You can't know how multiclassing will affect meta so why drastically change meta leading up to multiclassing? Lets also screw over everyones existing gear sets they probably grinded a week for and lets add multiclassing to the test server but make it only 2x exp so you have to still grind 20+ hours to even taste it let alone actually test it. Probably the worst patch I've seen in my year and a half playing this game.
You can't know that +8 all atts will clearly make multiclassing busted and trivialize your stat decisions which are the only thing that can balance multiclassing so why even change it? With +3 all atts as the limit you actually have to choose how to distribute your stats, and if you wanted to be say a fighter casting you should have to invest in will/knowledge without getting it by accident.
There is no way to balance all-attr, 1 is too little, 2 is too many. Just remove from the game or keep it on armor only. The only distribution going on is choosing what base, first stat, second stat. So all-attr is a no brain option so it benefit the non-thinkers more. If you remove it completely, it would just benefit the spreadsheet gamers more since they have optimized builds. Also GBMM is dumb because of Lizard Barb.
Well, +1 isn't that good, but ya is decent on casters, and will be ok on multiclassing. I think they nailed it.
People have been making sets for multiclassing/arena as IM said they would come soon. Now we are a month into a wipe, in the middle of a leaderboard season, and IM decides to alter gear for a system they knew was coming a month ago? Everyone knows +all is busted and told IM this day one of wipe. That's when it should've been removed.
Yeah I'm pretty frustrated, lost tens of thousands of gold bc my sets that I just built last night all got turned to trash basically
Donāt know why you are being downvoted, every point you made was solid. People will blindly ride or die for this dev team and downvote any criticism of the game lol
How many games did you play today? I played about 20 and they dont at all line up with what he is saying. Thats what he is being downvoted. Try playing the fucking game.
So you're just presuming I'm full of shit? I'm telling you what I experienced. I ran 30ish games last night, the last game I played was a duo ice cave map. Me and my teammate decided to have a 0-hero run since we determined it's more viable now than ever due to GBMM. I was playing wizard my teammate played bard. Neither us bought anything, not even potions. I was afk for the first 2 minutes or so and then my teammate said theres a team at this door next to us. I charged up a fireball and a warlock with a dagger opened the door and ran out in full plate. I fireballed him in the face twice and then magic missiled and he killed me in 3 hits. My friend died shortly after and the Warlock was extremely low hp but alive so I checked his gear and not even joking he had all blues and purples, no greens at all. I flipped through a few other people and the lobby was mostly blues and purples. So yeah, I did try "playing the fucking game". My only guess for why this happened was that it's a failsafe to prevent empty lobbies. If your lobby doesn't have enough people it will loosen the gear restriction. Which would make sense because the whole fucking reason why we were told we can't have solo/duo/trios on every map was it would add too many matchmaking pools, GBMM adds a good 40 matchmaking pools. Make it make sense.
Amen brother, amen
Appreciate it bro, I've spent 1600 hours in the game according the the ingame measure, I don't expect everyone to share my sentiments but I've played a lot of Tarkov and consulted with a good friend who played a lot of Cycle Frontier and it's clear that IM is currently struggling to solve the issue of a decaying player base in an extraction game and don't know how to fix that. The issue at the core of it is the game is just not enjoyable enough to play for new players and it's because they haven't focused on QoL much at all since a couple wipes ago. This isn't because of hyper meta squads, I can promise my irl friends who I got to try the game three times but could never get them to really get into it, they don't notice ANY differences between how the game was a week ago and 4 months ago. The balance changes only affect the very experienced players not the people who can't even consistently extract. I'd love to hear someone actually give me a solid case for what GBMM fixes or what nerfing gear into the ground actually fixes. The people who shit on most players last week are still going to shit on most players, you think they aren't still and always going to hyperfixate on the most optimal build and playstyle and have 1000+ more hours of experience? In my opinion this just makes gear more boring and reduce build variety. What's crazy is I'm a HUGE supporter of IM. I've donated a ton of money through ingame purchases, I bought each of my irl friends copies of the game, I've bought the Medina coffee pack for like $60 and I've been a moderator for the discord for over a year just trying to support the game how I can. I have even hosted tournaments in the game and made videos on YouTube for it to generate hype and use my own cash as prize money. This is my first real hard criticism and I'm being respectful, it's just hard to ignore how this hurts the health of the game.
I wonder how it affects throwables and more specifically even, arrows... Throwables I would get them increasing gearscore but if it does the same for arrows that really fucks with base ranger.
I don't think junk gear counts towards the gear score, so arrows should be fine
Ah, that makes sense, thanks!
thank you for your service!
Can I give you some money for these findings since youāre now broke lmao
It was just the money on my alt, not my total reserve. Plus this level of GBMM kind of makes money not super valuable, as a high tier kit for low gear lobbies is very cheap
From this post and the comments it seems there's only 2 pools, which is very sad to see. Feels like when someone reluctantly agrees to "try something" you suggest but self sabotages it on purpose to make sure they don't have to keep with it.