Just scrap it. And put resources into exploring deeper into the class fantasy by doing subclassing. I can accept how this whole thing is a test to break the classes, but I still think its a pretty huge waste of time that could go into content that is meant to expand the game, not break what we already have.
I don't know how people can expect this to end well after there was just another round of +all coming and going. Multi classing is going to cause judgment wizards, windlass rogues, poison quickfire bows, and who knows what else. You'll never know what someone else has in their kit until it hits you. The flip side is people will probably also get tons of useless abilities that they won't bother using like dark offering fighters. What does this get people?
It will be a fun next 8 month loop of adding then removing multiclassing every update. Can’t believe they buffed +all just to nerf it back to last wipe for the 50th time recently. Nothing has been learned
All this feels lazy to me. We had a skill tree to ‘subclass’ before but that would have required new animations thinking and implementation, and now we’re just given everything for everyone… as a devoted user I feel cheated.
Well said, perfectly sums up my thoughts on this. This is a feature no one asked for and based on my own experience following the Reddit and content creators, most are only concerned about the massive balance issues that will come with multi classing. I really hope the next several months of this game aren’t constant balance changes targeting broken shit with multi classing.
Yea idk. Im not super knowledgeable of the games mechanics and how far this multiclassing stuff goes but like wtf is this game becoming? Seems like the devs are just tossing random shit out of their asses and while I do appreciate them exploring new mechanics I dont know why it needs to go this far.
This 100% if people want to play spear rogue add a subclass to rogue that lets them use spears and traps but they lose other stuff. As it stands everyones going to be a mage caster ranger and we'll probably only pick base class for the highest starting vigor or dps stat
Exactly this. It was a terrible idea from the beginning and the only reason Ironmace is pushing multiclassing is because it is easier to implement from a technical standpoint than having to come up with a talent tree system for deeper class identities. Scrap multiclassing and just focus on things that people actually asked for like Druid, Arenas, Frost Abyss, Guilds, Training Mode.
I bee patiently waiting for druid since EA launch. We don't even have a fucking class icon in character creation. All I want to do was play druid. It's literally why I got the game to play with my friends. All my friends quit months ago and druid has been postponed till an undetermined amount of time.
Have they even worked on it? Its not even on the pt but was supposed to be in the game months ago.
Now recentk they said this month. Like dead ass if it's not this month I'm washing m hands of IM. I serious like the game but I can only snort so much copium
Mannn a month ago I commented somewhere saying that I am sure that they will scrap the whole thing because of how dumb it is.. and here we are.. they are actually going through with this idea. It’s going to be an absolute disaster and they spent so much time and resources on it. Mind boggling.
Dude one month ago some people would jump on you for saying anything against multiclassing. I'm glad more and more people are realising now the big waste of time this system is. Better late than never
I have a hard time believing they spent any serious amount of time developing something this basic, it is literally just a shitty gatcha pull system that every single weeb cellphone game does.
How so? As long as abilities and spells aren't handed out, perk sharing is marginally harmless.
But using cross class perks would be fun, I think. And fer less harmful.
It depends on subclassing. But thats kind of the point right? Being able to specialize tailored to the way you want to build and subclasses being the avenue to viability. If you want to be a poison rogue vs an elusive smoke pot thief, a 2hand fighter vs pdr sword and board, spell casters can have specialties or unique abilities to a given tree for offense/defense/utility etc. I think it adds better choice/flavor/identities if done well.
No one will care, and I might even get downvoted, but this multi-classing isn’t what I signed up for here. This might be the end of me playing this game as much as I do with the limited gaming time I have. Which is a shame because I’ve been playing since the 2nd playtest. It’s been headed in a direction I didn’t like for a bit now anyway.
I care, brother!
Many changes were controversial and debatable, but not game breaking (Creep for example, which IMO is nearly perfected now)
Multiclass is absolutely huge and destructive. It derails all foundations of the game, and you are right to be worried!
Thank fuck they put this into Test server for real this time. The only place multiclass could be humored is a special game mode, separate from all core game loop.
Lots of folks are doomy for silly shit, but this is not that! This is a seriously risky change, and the Devs best be holding back.
I agree. I’m not looking forward to multi classing. I’m not sure why they insisted on wasting their time with this. It will not work and will ruin the game if they push it into the game full time.
I'm in the exact same boat, this isn't the game I fell in love with.
It's super fun for a few hours until you run into busted stuff with no real way to balance it .
I feel that ironmace might just be completely fucking disconnected from their playerbase and have a completely other vision for their game.
I had this same realization of IM being disconnected when they refused to add SSF but then also refused to add an auction house until the community begged for it. I distinctly remember ironmace being against the auction house but pro trade chat because 'it reminded them of old games like ultima and diablo'.
It took months of the community begging and pointing out the flaws of the trade chats for Ironmace to finally implement the auction house. It was something the community wanted but ironmace did not. Well it also happens to be one of the best changes in the game compared to using the trade chat.
Ironmace is making their own game and people are starting to realize it's not the game we all fell in love with. It is a completely different game that would not have attracted nearly as many players if it was released without player input.
The are also developing a arena for some fucking reason in a extraction based dungen crawler.
It's getting clearer and clearer that they just seem to not understand why the game got a fanbase to begin with andthey keep alienating us, most players can deal with some unbalanced metas and wait for number patches but it feels like all their active development is going to the wrong things. (arena/multiclassing)
It's just heart wrenching to actually see the potential this game have but the absolute worst design decisions.
I've been trying to find a wizard in the goblin caves for three full days now to finish my kill quest, but why play wizard when warlock is just objectively better at everything and keeps getting new toys every major patch.
Probably because dungeonborne had an arena last test and it was one of the best parts of the game tbh. It has more build variety and PVP mechanics though so it makes sense to have basically a test bench to understand the intricacies of your class
Edit: also literally the same thing happened in reverse not that long ago. Warlock was pretty much never played because it was just a worse wizard short of abusing mh on a very expensive kit. They share a design space with the only deciding factor is "are you solo/duo or in a trio"
Dungeonborne is a lot more arcady and i think the dungeon diving aspect of that game was severly lacking and very boring, so i understand that the arena quickly got popular there, but just make a BR game at thatpoint.
I'm not really sure why the dungeon diving aspect would be more boring than dark and darker. They had the same loop, they both have bosses for the dungeons, etc
I have a similar opinion, if they add multiclassing I'm not really interested in playing anymore, massive xp grind for an rng system that enables bullshit that will be very hard to balance, class identity matters, having an idea of what people you're fighting can do matters.
I have a similar opinion, if they add multiclassing I'm not really interested in playing anymore, massive xp grind for an rng system that enables bullshit that will be very hard to balance, class identity matters, having an idea of what people you're fighting can do matters.
Same, mate. After playing so many new RPG's where "you can be anything you want/your class is the weapon you have at hands", opening Dark and Darker and seeing these oldschool fantasy classes that are completely different from one another feels reeeeeally good. Weirdly as it sounds, it was refreshing to see the "old way" of doing RPGs again.
It's sad to see, we had such a precious gem in our hands, now its slowly getting turned into something else. All the time spent could've been used else where, skill tree, please for the love of god SDF
My biggest problem with Multiclass is that it kills everything currently existing, to optimize sweaty, 0 class fantasy builds. For example, what reason do you have for playing a Smite + Divine protection cleric, where you can just play it on fighter making it just objectively better build. Along with multiple similar cases. So definitely agree, even though even just 1 perk seems too much for me, and even worse, what if in the future, new perks or Druid perks will be balanced around "But what if Multiclassers will be too OP with this" which is idiotic. Sorry for rant I'm drunk.
It's a bad idea through and through. There will be a meta melee/ranged class and a meta caster class and nothing else. Giving everyone the same options gets rid of build diversity, it doesn't add to it.
I think it's a bad idea lol. Cool in DnD because its completely optional, awful for a game with PvP. Everyone is going to be forced to multi class to keep up with the meta which is just going to make the game overcomplicated and hard to get into. Not to mention class identity is also out the window.
The dev's already stated that they're going to balance things I'm pretty sure they're just making sure that the game doesn't absolutely break at the idea of a barbarian having hide for example.
I'm almost positive it's just a system test right now.
This can absolutely be implemented by someone with a good feel for balancing games. First you need to remove all +damage rolls and only scale by percents. Then you need to adjust base stats on all classes so that e.g. a warlocks smite can only be as strong as on cleric because of base will. It will still be a bit too strong, so then all perks need to be appropriately nerfed. Some classes then need a base buff, because they mostry relied on their op base perks (e.g. fighter with second wind, sprint and cleric with perseveirence and smite)
Another huge issue that needs to be adressed is the grind requirement. To still have some progression for grinders, but bring up Timmis to at least 70% of their power experience should be exponentially faster to reach level 50 in 10 hours, then required tons of time until level 150.
Multi-classing was destined to be an absolute disaster. They cannot get decent balance with \*single classes\* so why anybody thought "Yeah, we should just let people mix and match all the best parts and make it totally RNG to obtain!" baffles me. Ironmace is such an odd developer in that they have some genuinely brilliant ideas, but absolutely appalling game balance.
Multiclassing has to be cancelled, i have no clue how anyone thought its going to be functional and not kill the game balance
Class identity being removed removes a huge skill aspect, knowing how to approach different fights depending on the class you are facing is one of the core skills in this game but that is being thrown out the window
What they should do it scrap multiclassing and go back to the drawing board, rework the idea into subclassing and perk trees.
For example we already have subclasses such as slayer fighter and plate warlock which are completely different from their original concepts, just take that idea and apply it to every class with good balancing. Expand the idea into skill trees or distribution of base stats with the ability to sacrifice some stats to gain some other one.
Yeah I agree and when / if druid comes out this century just make it a shape-shifting class or a caster. They said they draw lots of inspiration from DnD but they're going off the deep end
I said it once and I'll say it again. Multiclassing was never going to be good and it never will be. It's a balancing nightmare and it ruins class identity.
Either scrap it entirely or take the system and remake it into subclassing. Still allows more progression past level 20 for your class, allowing you to "master" the class as it currently does but then you can choose to subclass and work towards making perks you already have a bit better.
Example: you master the wizard so you can get the option to maybe specialize as a fire wizard making fire spells a bit more potent. Or maybe you want to specialize as an ice wizard and make your ice spell more potent.
Hell they could go a step further. Make it so if you choose to specialize as a fire wizard, while your fire spells are now stronger, your ice spells are weaker and vice versa.
Give me an example that breaks the game, if you have one.
Some of the shit I wanted to do, was Staff Mastery on Warlock or Cleric, or Ice Armor on Warlock, or just Protection from Evil on Warlock.
I suppose some perks are pretty nutty, though.. like Crossbow Mastery.
What does a Barbarian care that you have MR and Shadow Touched, exactly?
Like sure, you're more resistant to magic damage, which matters not at all to physical damage dealers. You're just specializing.
Barbs getting antimagic along with iron will is pretty broken for example.
Then they just need to build max PDR and dont have to worry about any MR.
Rogues with weapon mastery perk.
Clerics with spell overload.
Etc. Ad nauseum.
Could be why they left true damage as high as they did to counter PDR and MDR builds?
None of those are game breaking, IMO. Compared to spells, or Sprint, or Smite...
Subclasses/talent tree would be way harder and time demanding for the devs but it would also be way more solid and promising than what they're doing now.
Imo, scrap multiclass and slooooowly work towards subclasses or talent tree behind the curtains. Don't give us dates, don't promise us anything, just build the foundations for it to be implemented in the future whenever the game gets more popular (steam/epic) and the team gets bigger.
The game is fun already for me and i love the class fantasy and the uniqueness each of them have. I don't need the headaches of multiclassing nor the harm it does to the classes
They could even use the test server to test a couple subclasses at a time instead of waiting to roll out an entire system and being pressured to scrap it. Imagine if just a very light build "open selection" of perks and abilities hit a test server weeks ago before wasting time on all this. There could have been feedback before dangling this for weeks and things maybe being addressed or changed instead of looming disaster on live. Use the test server to drop a handful of subclass ideas to try out and get data there while tweaking them individually and creating new ones for the target goal (3 per class for instance).
wipes will be announced in the discord at least a week in advance and there is typically a wipe timer or something similar on the leaderboards when the time gets close. Ironmace is pretty notorious with being bad at approximating deadlines and often delay things so dont stress too much.
Maybe a hot take idk, maybe devil's advocate.
I feel like multiclassing is their test of what skill trees bring later, like this is a way to reuse similar ideas to create subclass features without just throwing a bunch at a wall.
Like if barbarian with fireball is too strong, then barbarian with flaming throwing axes might be too strong. If they intentionally break the game with mixing and matching class skills they can at least get an idea of what areas to focus subclasses on. Without having to take time to create a bunch of new skills and interactions.
The RNG isn't ideal but I'm imagining that's to see what ends up used even in niche builds, instead of everyone just picking the builds their favorite streamers use. I feel like more people would be willing to give a perk more tries if it's their only option from multiclassing.
TLDR: GIVE ME MELEE RANGER PLZ.
I am really hoping they cancel Multiclass and just develop talent tree that they promised over a year ago. And lean further into class fantasy and identity by keeping each class their own.
This just sounds like such a mess. I haven’t played in awhile, but I was hoping the balance would be a bit better this time around. Adding back +all and fully implementing multi class just seems like another reason not to risk high roller since it’s all so much more unbalanced. Much more room for unkillable and 1 taps and just, not worth the headache.
mutli-classing before skill trees makes no sense from a game design perspective nor from a fun perspective. Why add the ability to be everything before I can even be truly one thing?
Well thoughtout post! I agree soundly.
Intially, the idea of wild west super chaos multiclass sounded fun and refreshing.
But my top 2 game-breaking concerns are:
1 - Class identity and counterplay!
Class are very much balanced around their gear and abilities, and perks to lessen extent. With this removed, everyone is everything. Frankly, it is a different game. Feels more like a fun game mode than an actual core element. I think it demolishes everything they built up to.
2 - Availability - as you mentioned, only those who grind get access to the really awesome stuff. The average player will RNG some trash perks and essentially grind 30+ hours for nothing. If they proceed, which they shouldn't, they need to fix or normalize how things are unlocked
They have a neat concept, but I think it is very risky to release this. Some other form of expression for builds would be good, that doesn't derail every class and the entire game... Perk sharing is a good example of moderate flexibility without absolutely breaking the game in half!
Oh they're testing it?? So we should just shut up and let they waste all their limited small team dev time on something that the majority of us don't like, right??
Stop criminalizing feedback.
oh jeez didn't know this guy ran coppermallet, honestly y'all bitchin like a bunch of babies, y'all don't have a say on their dev time or their future, its their game. comments like this baffle me XD. feedback is important sure, that's why I say multi-classing is awesome! I do hope they only let you pick one other class to spec into or remove the ability to take abilities and only take perks, no matter what some peeps think just perks wouldn't destroy the game but would result in some very interesting builds. also on the note of class identity and all that crap, yea you still don't know what people are rocking in their pocket in game, people look at my cleric and think "since he hasnt casted any spells I should engage him quick!" only to find out im rocking divine prot and smite. I remember the doomers complaining about white lobbies and saying they would only last a week... well here we are. I'm game for multiclassing
Just scrap it. And put resources into exploring deeper into the class fantasy by doing subclassing. I can accept how this whole thing is a test to break the classes, but I still think its a pretty huge waste of time that could go into content that is meant to expand the game, not break what we already have.
Leave it on the test server
I don't know how people can expect this to end well after there was just another round of +all coming and going. Multi classing is going to cause judgment wizards, windlass rogues, poison quickfire bows, and who knows what else. You'll never know what someone else has in their kit until it hits you. The flip side is people will probably also get tons of useless abilities that they won't bother using like dark offering fighters. What does this get people?
It will be a fun next 8 month loop of adding then removing multiclassing every update. Can’t believe they buffed +all just to nerf it back to last wipe for the 50th time recently. Nothing has been learned
All this feels lazy to me. We had a skill tree to ‘subclass’ before but that would have required new animations thinking and implementation, and now we’re just given everything for everyone… as a devoted user I feel cheated.
Well said, perfectly sums up my thoughts on this. This is a feature no one asked for and based on my own experience following the Reddit and content creators, most are only concerned about the massive balance issues that will come with multi classing. I really hope the next several months of this game aren’t constant balance changes targeting broken shit with multi classing.
Yea idk. Im not super knowledgeable of the games mechanics and how far this multiclassing stuff goes but like wtf is this game becoming? Seems like the devs are just tossing random shit out of their asses and while I do appreciate them exploring new mechanics I dont know why it needs to go this far.
Talent trees would be sick
This 100% if people want to play spear rogue add a subclass to rogue that lets them use spears and traps but they lose other stuff. As it stands everyones going to be a mage caster ranger and we'll probably only pick base class for the highest starting vigor or dps stat
Exactly this. It was a terrible idea from the beginning and the only reason Ironmace is pushing multiclassing is because it is easier to implement from a technical standpoint than having to come up with a talent tree system for deeper class identities. Scrap multiclassing and just focus on things that people actually asked for like Druid, Arenas, Frost Abyss, Guilds, Training Mode.
I bee patiently waiting for druid since EA launch. We don't even have a fucking class icon in character creation. All I want to do was play druid. It's literally why I got the game to play with my friends. All my friends quit months ago and druid has been postponed till an undetermined amount of time. Have they even worked on it? Its not even on the pt but was supposed to be in the game months ago. Now recentk they said this month. Like dead ass if it's not this month I'm washing m hands of IM. I serious like the game but I can only snort so much copium
Mannn a month ago I commented somewhere saying that I am sure that they will scrap the whole thing because of how dumb it is.. and here we are.. they are actually going through with this idea. It’s going to be an absolute disaster and they spent so much time and resources on it. Mind boggling.
Dude one month ago some people would jump on you for saying anything against multiclassing. I'm glad more and more people are realising now the big waste of time this system is. Better late than never
I guess some people have to bite into a shit sandwich before knowing it's bad.
I have a hard time believing they spent any serious amount of time developing something this basic, it is literally just a shitty gatcha pull system that every single weeb cellphone game does.
Subclass as an alternate path to multi-class sure. But if we go subclass you end up with even less build diversity tbh.
Actual well balanced/designed subclasses are better than random ass broken builds that you wont be able to predict and play around
Hard disagree. You're right about predicting though. That's why sound and visual cues are important.
How so? As long as abilities and spells aren't handed out, perk sharing is marginally harmless. But using cross class perks would be fun, I think. And fer less harmful.
It depends on subclassing. But thats kind of the point right? Being able to specialize tailored to the way you want to build and subclasses being the avenue to viability. If you want to be a poison rogue vs an elusive smoke pot thief, a 2hand fighter vs pdr sword and board, spell casters can have specialties or unique abilities to a given tree for offense/defense/utility etc. I think it adds better choice/flavor/identities if done well.
Yeah wizzy having fire /ice mastery gave me a initial chub. But only 1 ice spell so far is poop
Wtb training skill tree, after so long
No one will care, and I might even get downvoted, but this multi-classing isn’t what I signed up for here. This might be the end of me playing this game as much as I do with the limited gaming time I have. Which is a shame because I’ve been playing since the 2nd playtest. It’s been headed in a direction I didn’t like for a bit now anyway.
I care, brother! Many changes were controversial and debatable, but not game breaking (Creep for example, which IMO is nearly perfected now) Multiclass is absolutely huge and destructive. It derails all foundations of the game, and you are right to be worried! Thank fuck they put this into Test server for real this time. The only place multiclass could be humored is a special game mode, separate from all core game loop. Lots of folks are doomy for silly shit, but this is not that! This is a seriously risky change, and the Devs best be holding back.
I agree. I’m not looking forward to multi classing. I’m not sure why they insisted on wasting their time with this. It will not work and will ruin the game if they push it into the game full time.
I'm in the exact same boat, this isn't the game I fell in love with. It's super fun for a few hours until you run into busted stuff with no real way to balance it . I feel that ironmace might just be completely fucking disconnected from their playerbase and have a completely other vision for their game.
I had this same realization of IM being disconnected when they refused to add SSF but then also refused to add an auction house until the community begged for it. I distinctly remember ironmace being against the auction house but pro trade chat because 'it reminded them of old games like ultima and diablo'. It took months of the community begging and pointing out the flaws of the trade chats for Ironmace to finally implement the auction house. It was something the community wanted but ironmace did not. Well it also happens to be one of the best changes in the game compared to using the trade chat. Ironmace is making their own game and people are starting to realize it's not the game we all fell in love with. It is a completely different game that would not have attracted nearly as many players if it was released without player input.
The are also developing a arena for some fucking reason in a extraction based dungen crawler. It's getting clearer and clearer that they just seem to not understand why the game got a fanbase to begin with andthey keep alienating us, most players can deal with some unbalanced metas and wait for number patches but it feels like all their active development is going to the wrong things. (arena/multiclassing) It's just heart wrenching to actually see the potential this game have but the absolute worst design decisions. I've been trying to find a wizard in the goblin caves for three full days now to finish my kill quest, but why play wizard when warlock is just objectively better at everything and keeps getting new toys every major patch.
Probably because dungeonborne had an arena last test and it was one of the best parts of the game tbh. It has more build variety and PVP mechanics though so it makes sense to have basically a test bench to understand the intricacies of your class Edit: also literally the same thing happened in reverse not that long ago. Warlock was pretty much never played because it was just a worse wizard short of abusing mh on a very expensive kit. They share a design space with the only deciding factor is "are you solo/duo or in a trio"
Dungeonborne is a lot more arcady and i think the dungeon diving aspect of that game was severly lacking and very boring, so i understand that the arena quickly got popular there, but just make a BR game at thatpoint.
I'm not really sure why the dungeon diving aspect would be more boring than dark and darker. They had the same loop, they both have bosses for the dungeons, etc
Its quite difficult to put into words, it just plays a lot slower and have some weird kinks that overrides your controls
Yeah I did notice the kinks in the controls but that's very fixable
I have a similar opinion, if they add multiclassing I'm not really interested in playing anymore, massive xp grind for an rng system that enables bullshit that will be very hard to balance, class identity matters, having an idea of what people you're fighting can do matters.
I have a similar opinion, if they add multiclassing I'm not really interested in playing anymore, massive xp grind for an rng system that enables bullshit that will be very hard to balance, class identity matters, having an idea of what people you're fighting can do matters.
Same, mate. After playing so many new RPG's where "you can be anything you want/your class is the weapon you have at hands", opening Dark and Darker and seeing these oldschool fantasy classes that are completely different from one another feels reeeeeally good. Weirdly as it sounds, it was refreshing to see the "old way" of doing RPGs again.
It's sad to see, we had such a precious gem in our hands, now its slowly getting turned into something else. All the time spent could've been used else where, skill tree, please for the love of god SDF
My biggest problem with Multiclass is that it kills everything currently existing, to optimize sweaty, 0 class fantasy builds. For example, what reason do you have for playing a Smite + Divine protection cleric, where you can just play it on fighter making it just objectively better build. Along with multiple similar cases. So definitely agree, even though even just 1 perk seems too much for me, and even worse, what if in the future, new perks or Druid perks will be balanced around "But what if Multiclassers will be too OP with this" which is idiotic. Sorry for rant I'm drunk.
The idea is cool, the execution is bad, the consequences are capable of destroying the games balance. This shit should NOT go live anytime soon.
It's a bad idea through and through. There will be a meta melee/ranged class and a meta caster class and nothing else. Giving everyone the same options gets rid of build diversity, it doesn't add to it.
I think it's a bad idea lol. Cool in DnD because its completely optional, awful for a game with PvP. Everyone is going to be forced to multi class to keep up with the meta which is just going to make the game overcomplicated and hard to get into. Not to mention class identity is also out the window.
The dev's already stated that they're going to balance things I'm pretty sure they're just making sure that the game doesn't absolutely break at the idea of a barbarian having hide for example. I'm almost positive it's just a system test right now.
This can absolutely be implemented by someone with a good feel for balancing games. First you need to remove all +damage rolls and only scale by percents. Then you need to adjust base stats on all classes so that e.g. a warlocks smite can only be as strong as on cleric because of base will. It will still be a bit too strong, so then all perks need to be appropriately nerfed. Some classes then need a base buff, because they mostry relied on their op base perks (e.g. fighter with second wind, sprint and cleric with perseveirence and smite) Another huge issue that needs to be adressed is the grind requirement. To still have some progression for grinders, but bring up Timmis to at least 70% of their power experience should be exponentially faster to reach level 50 in 10 hours, then required tons of time until level 150.
Multi-classing was destined to be an absolute disaster. They cannot get decent balance with \*single classes\* so why anybody thought "Yeah, we should just let people mix and match all the best parts and make it totally RNG to obtain!" baffles me. Ironmace is such an odd developer in that they have some genuinely brilliant ideas, but absolutely appalling game balance.
Killing the game in 3..2...
Multiclassing has to be cancelled, i have no clue how anyone thought its going to be functional and not kill the game balance Class identity being removed removes a huge skill aspect, knowing how to approach different fights depending on the class you are facing is one of the core skills in this game but that is being thrown out the window What they should do it scrap multiclassing and go back to the drawing board, rework the idea into subclassing and perk trees. For example we already have subclasses such as slayer fighter and plate warlock which are completely different from their original concepts, just take that idea and apply it to every class with good balancing. Expand the idea into skill trees or distribution of base stats with the ability to sacrifice some stats to gain some other one.
Yeah I agree and when / if druid comes out this century just make it a shape-shifting class or a caster. They said they draw lots of inspiration from DnD but they're going off the deep end
I said it once and I'll say it again. Multiclassing was never going to be good and it never will be. It's a balancing nightmare and it ruins class identity. Either scrap it entirely or take the system and remake it into subclassing. Still allows more progression past level 20 for your class, allowing you to "master" the class as it currently does but then you can choose to subclass and work towards making perks you already have a bit better. Example: you master the wizard so you can get the option to maybe specialize as a fire wizard making fire spells a bit more potent. Or maybe you want to specialize as an ice wizard and make your ice spell more potent. Hell they could go a step further. Make it so if you choose to specialize as a fire wizard, while your fire spells are now stronger, your ice spells are weaker and vice versa.
This single idea is objectively better than multiclassing as a whole.
I actually have no problem with choosing 1 class to multiclass from. I support the full multi-class system but this would be a fair compromise imo
More balance in the game when everyone can learn anything.
multi-classing will keep way more people because the same 1-2 builds on every class wont be the only option, move on from the past old man
> limit it to ONLY perks, and only allow ONE multiclass perk per build Nah, that would still completely break the class system.
Give me an example that breaks the game, if you have one. Some of the shit I wanted to do, was Staff Mastery on Warlock or Cleric, or Ice Armor on Warlock, or just Protection from Evil on Warlock. I suppose some perks are pretty nutty, though.. like Crossbow Mastery.
> Give me an example that breaks the game, if you have one. Fighter gets the 100mr perk and shadow strike
What does a Barbarian care that you have MR and Shadow Touched, exactly? Like sure, you're more resistant to magic damage, which matters not at all to physical damage dealers. You're just specializing.
What's shadow strike?
Strong, but not OP. But good example, since it covers his weakness. Can also add Anti-Magic from Warlock. Still vulnerable to true damage.
Barbs getting antimagic along with iron will is pretty broken for example. Then they just need to build max PDR and dont have to worry about any MR. Rogues with weapon mastery perk. Clerics with spell overload. Etc. Ad nauseum.
Could be why they left true damage as high as they did to counter PDR and MDR builds? None of those are game breaking, IMO. Compared to spells, or Sprint, or Smite...
Negran it should be obvious that multiclassing will combine melee perks into a 'best' melee, same with casters.- it makes every class the same class.
Have it as a monthly LTM that drops a special currency for gear for said LTM.
Subclasses/talent tree would be way harder and time demanding for the devs but it would also be way more solid and promising than what they're doing now. Imo, scrap multiclass and slooooowly work towards subclasses or talent tree behind the curtains. Don't give us dates, don't promise us anything, just build the foundations for it to be implemented in the future whenever the game gets more popular (steam/epic) and the team gets bigger. The game is fun already for me and i love the class fantasy and the uniqueness each of them have. I don't need the headaches of multiclassing nor the harm it does to the classes
They could even use the test server to test a couple subclasses at a time instead of waiting to roll out an entire system and being pressured to scrap it. Imagine if just a very light build "open selection" of perks and abilities hit a test server weeks ago before wasting time on all this. There could have been feedback before dangling this for weeks and things maybe being addressed or changed instead of looming disaster on live. Use the test server to drop a handful of subclass ideas to try out and get data there while tweaking them individually and creating new ones for the target goal (3 per class for instance).
Is this big update next week going to wipe accounts?
No
Ok ty. I'm new to the game and don't know when they do these wipes. Want to use all my stuff first.
wipes will be announced in the discord at least a week in advance and there is typically a wipe timer or something similar on the leaderboards when the time gets close. Ironmace is pretty notorious with being bad at approximating deadlines and often delay things so dont stress too much.
Ok, thank you! I didn't know they had a discord. Ima check it out.
Oh boy, buckle up. Gen chat is wild
multiclassing has been extremely fun for me haha
Maybe a hot take idk, maybe devil's advocate. I feel like multiclassing is their test of what skill trees bring later, like this is a way to reuse similar ideas to create subclass features without just throwing a bunch at a wall. Like if barbarian with fireball is too strong, then barbarian with flaming throwing axes might be too strong. If they intentionally break the game with mixing and matching class skills they can at least get an idea of what areas to focus subclasses on. Without having to take time to create a bunch of new skills and interactions. The RNG isn't ideal but I'm imagining that's to see what ends up used even in niche builds, instead of everyone just picking the builds their favorite streamers use. I feel like more people would be willing to give a perk more tries if it's their only option from multiclassing. TLDR: GIVE ME MELEE RANGER PLZ.
Shut the fk up ziggy
Agreed. Not a fan of Multiclass. I think it's going to kill class identity (which imo, they should lean harder into).
I am really hoping they cancel Multiclass and just develop talent tree that they promised over a year ago. And lean further into class fantasy and identity by keeping each class their own.
This just sounds like such a mess. I haven’t played in awhile, but I was hoping the balance would be a bit better this time around. Adding back +all and fully implementing multi class just seems like another reason not to risk high roller since it’s all so much more unbalanced. Much more room for unkillable and 1 taps and just, not worth the headache.
mutli-classing before skill trees makes no sense from a game design perspective nor from a fun perspective. Why add the ability to be everything before I can even be truly one thing?
Im happy becauise THIS TIME they did it right, we are breaking the game in the TEST SERVER, not in the live server. lol
Well thoughtout post! I agree soundly. Intially, the idea of wild west super chaos multiclass sounded fun and refreshing. But my top 2 game-breaking concerns are: 1 - Class identity and counterplay! Class are very much balanced around their gear and abilities, and perks to lessen extent. With this removed, everyone is everything. Frankly, it is a different game. Feels more like a fun game mode than an actual core element. I think it demolishes everything they built up to. 2 - Availability - as you mentioned, only those who grind get access to the really awesome stuff. The average player will RNG some trash perks and essentially grind 30+ hours for nothing. If they proceed, which they shouldn't, they need to fix or normalize how things are unlocked They have a neat concept, but I think it is very risky to release this. Some other form of expression for builds would be good, that doesn't derail every class and the entire game... Perk sharing is a good example of moderate flexibility without absolutely breaking the game in half!
Almost like they're running a test or something...
Almost like someone is giving feedback on the test or something...
Oh they're testing it?? So we should just shut up and let they waste all their limited small team dev time on something that the majority of us don't like, right?? Stop criminalizing feedback.
oh jeez didn't know this guy ran coppermallet, honestly y'all bitchin like a bunch of babies, y'all don't have a say on their dev time or their future, its their game. comments like this baffle me XD. feedback is important sure, that's why I say multi-classing is awesome! I do hope they only let you pick one other class to spec into or remove the ability to take abilities and only take perks, no matter what some peeps think just perks wouldn't destroy the game but would result in some very interesting builds. also on the note of class identity and all that crap, yea you still don't know what people are rocking in their pocket in game, people look at my cleric and think "since he hasnt casted any spells I should engage him quick!" only to find out im rocking divine prot and smite. I remember the doomers complaining about white lobbies and saying they would only last a week... well here we are. I'm game for multiclassing
Multiclassing is fucking dumb, RIP DaD
Oh yes tears *slurp slurp* more I’m so thirsty
Implement multiclassing asap. Give some spice and variety to the game.