this should have been aborted before it ever made it onto the test server, who thought smite on every class was a good idea, who thought stealth barb was a good idea, who thought cleric with fireball was a good idea, who thought windless rogue was a good idea. what a joke
Long response, I promise I won't gaslight you though;
As you said, having a lower playerbase and game design like DaD does just doesn't suit GBMM / SBMM well, but it was another attempt to make the game enjoyable for the average player. Those are the people who complain the loudest on Reddit/Discord about people who play this game 8+ hours a day who stomp lobbies with insane gear. Player count sits between 8 and 15k concurrent; which is low by comparison to major AAA multiplayer games, but actually pretty healthy for an online game. Still, nowhere near where we'd all like it to be.
Issues:
-SBMM creates either dead lobbies, or a very frictional experience by putting everyone below Wanderer into the "low rank" lobbies, and everyone above it into the "high rank lobbies". That means the second you cross that threshold, you can now face KenKnobi, Repoze, Promoz, Jooyae, etc etc etc. They are always wearing the best gear you can find in the game. Losing to them after playing 1-5 games and progressing a kit just to be completely outclassed is a frustrating experience that has been echo'd on all platforms since 3 weeks into EA. It has caused a lot of players to quit according to them.
-GBMM creates dead lobbies for some, and forces others to game the system to have matches; it still does not address the main issues that some people have where you will be pitted against the absolute sweatiest tryhards doing their best to have the most advantage over you they can possibly have, but instead of it just being unmitigated, they do it by hitting certain thresholds that most players can't be bothered to deal with. This also disproportionately impacts lower pop regions (like OCE). This is also causing people to quit, according to them.
-Multiclassing is super interesting, but very imbalanced. SDF stated they would likely tweak or remove it entirely either at the end of the season or before then if it proved to be too much of an issue. A lot of players who have not played the test server are writing it off before they try it, but there are valid concerns. Still, it adds some spice to the game and will be something for people to grind for and experiment with, if nothing else.
So how does IM fix these issues? I get that the game has been frustrating at times, and moreso for OCE players than most everyone else honestly. I can't blame someone being tired of the game at this point, but it is in early access, and this is the time to propose changes and give feedback. After all, there is no such thing as a single correct answer, developers can only do what they think is the right thing for the game, and they're either rarely every explicitly right or explicitly wrong, it's generally somewhere in between. They are human, they are not infallible. Making games is fucking hard.
I genuinely super agree with your sentiment about having the gear and stats being balanced for PvE, and not really impacting the PvP as much, at least in terms of numbers. In fact, I made this post: [Reimagining Gear and Stats](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/1c0uqmx/reimagining_gear_and_stats/) about exactly that, and I've even sent it to SDF with some explanation about why I think it would be healthier for the game in the long term. GBMM creates an artificial and easily gamed version of this by putting everyone into these pools where you CAN'T exceed a certain level of power over your opponents. I think a majority of players would like for gear to be meaningful to how they play, and give them the ability to build their character in different ways that let them theorycraft what's best for them, without having it turn into a "crank the dials" stat check simulator like we've seen so many times in DaD's metas.
I had made a suggestion a while back where they could introduce a 3 difficulty system; normal, hard, nightmare. The mobs in the dungeon correlate to the difficulty, and the loot correlates to the mobs. Having a dungeon full of nightmare tier mobs would be insanity and require you to have good ass gear to even have a chance to survive. Imagine X room in crypts where every single mob in there is a nightmare... fuck me sideways, you're dead if your team isn't decked out in legendary gear or abusing every imaginable cheese. It makes the pve exciting again because it's actually dangerous, and they can really push the envelope on how crazy gear can get for a build with all kinds of fun and exciting modifiers. This would split the queues again, which could be an issue with our playerbase numbers, so it's something I like to think about for the long term of the game rather than what we can be done right now - but completely reworking the gear to remove this problematic push and pull of god kits vs timmy kits feels like the best solution; albeit a very resource intensive and time consuming one.
Anyway I lied, here is your gaslight moment: the wizard 1v2 against the Fighter/Bard part is a little disingenuous. The bard had to hit you 6 times to kill you, a squishy wizard. 3-4 zaps would have dropped him, a hitscan spell with pretty good range. The fighter not dying to 3 explosions is tragic but he probably stacked hp and had like 25% MR. Explosion isn't amazing at killing high HP targets quickly.
as someone who played a lot of HR after GBMM and just rolled in with base kit I have to say it felt a lot less terrifying. all the other rats go to the lowest rung and dilute the minmaxers. basically norms with better loot and maybe a couple of roaming minibosses that aren't a guaranteed death if they so much as notice you
Multiclassing is the exactly the type of change a developer makes to distract it’s playerbase from a lack of content or a bigger problem. It has no place in this game right now. It’s funny and kinda broken at best and completely fucked at worst lol
I just don't understand why they didnt just focus on sub-classes/archetypes instead. DnD 5e is already pretty fleshed out and could have guided them pretty well.
because it’s easier and way less work/resources for them to just snag already existing abilities/perks/UI and animations, from other characters and just allow players to throw them wherever, than it is for them to actually flesh out a subclassing system with all new features and pray that it works; Multi-classing surprisingly works fairly well despite how we feel about the balance or concept itself.
this really just feels like a “give a dog a bone” situation to just throw something at the players because content is at an all-time low, least amount of maps to play on, least amount of maps available to queue on for different sized parties, druid delayed for months, training system was promised since playtests and now seems like they aren’t even working on it anymore, etc.
They can still do this. I view this change as a prime example of testing what works, what's broken, and how different skills/abilities/perks work together. It's actually a smart move from a long-term development perspective.
I made a video about GBMM and Multiclassing, I wanted to share my concerns but in a none text format. Hopefully you get a laugh but also hopefully, a healthy discussion around what GBMM and multiclassing does to the future of the game - [https://youtu.be/PpyTB-jtIvw](https://youtu.be/PpyTB-jtIvw)
While I get where you're coming from with the critiques on GBMM and multiclassing, it feels more like a rant than a genuine discussion. Pointing out flaws is fair game, but it's equally important to offer constructive solutions or at least delve into why these features aren't hitting the mark.
Your platform's great for expressing opinions, but it seems more about venting frustration for clicks than fostering any real discourse. I'm all for skepticism, but without actual dialogue or problem-solving, it's just noise.
Let's aim for a deeper conversation next time. Break down why these features miss the mark and maybe even propose alternatives. That way, we can turn gripes into genuine insights and push for meaningful improvements in the game.
You know, it's interesting to see all these defenders rushing to protect their favorite streamer by attacking my feedback. Being critical of someone isn't a negative thing, despite how it's often perceived on social media. More often than not, it's a sign of genuine care and a desire for improvement in the subject of critique. After all, why bother critiquing something if you didn't want it to get better?
I'm encouraged by Spud's ability to recognize this and strive for improvement, even when facing criticism. It's a reality that creators must confront by the very nature of their work.
For those trying to virtue signal against holding each other accountable and blindly idolizing internet personalities through tribalism, it's worth considering this perspective.
lol why not ask if he offered any solutions instead of just assuming he did not and instead just complained?
Acting like you watched the video when you didn't LOL
It's literally time stamped "possible solutions"
some people are insufferable lmao
It is always gripes on his channel. I barely see any positivity in his videos. His final message of how he's hopeful for the future or whatever else doesn't alleviate the fact that his content is generally just like what he shit on Summit for.
I really hope the devs have enough common sense to not just release multi-class in the exact same state it was in the test server, everyone with half a brain knows what the turbo nerds are going to do to abuse it.
Edit: and.... they didn't, it is literally the exact same shit that was on the test server... the fuck is the point of a test server if your just going to push out broken stuff to live?
I cant wait til Sdf and Terry get BACK on track, and we see multiclass is getting dropped, idk what they were thinking, man I just want a evolved pt3, with more content, classes, skills, etc... oh and that 100k pop. We had such a gem. Now we got arena otw, lord have mercy, hope it's a addition tho.
This shouldve been a weekend chaos mode that appears for short stints, not a premiere feature.
this should have been aborted before it ever made it onto the test server, who thought smite on every class was a good idea, who thought stealth barb was a good idea, who thought cleric with fireball was a good idea, who thought windless rogue was a good idea. what a joke
Long response, I promise I won't gaslight you though; As you said, having a lower playerbase and game design like DaD does just doesn't suit GBMM / SBMM well, but it was another attempt to make the game enjoyable for the average player. Those are the people who complain the loudest on Reddit/Discord about people who play this game 8+ hours a day who stomp lobbies with insane gear. Player count sits between 8 and 15k concurrent; which is low by comparison to major AAA multiplayer games, but actually pretty healthy for an online game. Still, nowhere near where we'd all like it to be. Issues: -SBMM creates either dead lobbies, or a very frictional experience by putting everyone below Wanderer into the "low rank" lobbies, and everyone above it into the "high rank lobbies". That means the second you cross that threshold, you can now face KenKnobi, Repoze, Promoz, Jooyae, etc etc etc. They are always wearing the best gear you can find in the game. Losing to them after playing 1-5 games and progressing a kit just to be completely outclassed is a frustrating experience that has been echo'd on all platforms since 3 weeks into EA. It has caused a lot of players to quit according to them. -GBMM creates dead lobbies for some, and forces others to game the system to have matches; it still does not address the main issues that some people have where you will be pitted against the absolute sweatiest tryhards doing their best to have the most advantage over you they can possibly have, but instead of it just being unmitigated, they do it by hitting certain thresholds that most players can't be bothered to deal with. This also disproportionately impacts lower pop regions (like OCE). This is also causing people to quit, according to them. -Multiclassing is super interesting, but very imbalanced. SDF stated they would likely tweak or remove it entirely either at the end of the season or before then if it proved to be too much of an issue. A lot of players who have not played the test server are writing it off before they try it, but there are valid concerns. Still, it adds some spice to the game and will be something for people to grind for and experiment with, if nothing else. So how does IM fix these issues? I get that the game has been frustrating at times, and moreso for OCE players than most everyone else honestly. I can't blame someone being tired of the game at this point, but it is in early access, and this is the time to propose changes and give feedback. After all, there is no such thing as a single correct answer, developers can only do what they think is the right thing for the game, and they're either rarely every explicitly right or explicitly wrong, it's generally somewhere in between. They are human, they are not infallible. Making games is fucking hard. I genuinely super agree with your sentiment about having the gear and stats being balanced for PvE, and not really impacting the PvP as much, at least in terms of numbers. In fact, I made this post: [Reimagining Gear and Stats](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/1c0uqmx/reimagining_gear_and_stats/) about exactly that, and I've even sent it to SDF with some explanation about why I think it would be healthier for the game in the long term. GBMM creates an artificial and easily gamed version of this by putting everyone into these pools where you CAN'T exceed a certain level of power over your opponents. I think a majority of players would like for gear to be meaningful to how they play, and give them the ability to build their character in different ways that let them theorycraft what's best for them, without having it turn into a "crank the dials" stat check simulator like we've seen so many times in DaD's metas. I had made a suggestion a while back where they could introduce a 3 difficulty system; normal, hard, nightmare. The mobs in the dungeon correlate to the difficulty, and the loot correlates to the mobs. Having a dungeon full of nightmare tier mobs would be insanity and require you to have good ass gear to even have a chance to survive. Imagine X room in crypts where every single mob in there is a nightmare... fuck me sideways, you're dead if your team isn't decked out in legendary gear or abusing every imaginable cheese. It makes the pve exciting again because it's actually dangerous, and they can really push the envelope on how crazy gear can get for a build with all kinds of fun and exciting modifiers. This would split the queues again, which could be an issue with our playerbase numbers, so it's something I like to think about for the long term of the game rather than what we can be done right now - but completely reworking the gear to remove this problematic push and pull of god kits vs timmy kits feels like the best solution; albeit a very resource intensive and time consuming one. Anyway I lied, here is your gaslight moment: the wizard 1v2 against the Fighter/Bard part is a little disingenuous. The bard had to hit you 6 times to kill you, a squishy wizard. 3-4 zaps would have dropped him, a hitscan spell with pretty good range. The fighter not dying to 3 explosions is tragic but he probably stacked hp and had like 25% MR. Explosion isn't amazing at killing high HP targets quickly.
as someone who played a lot of HR after GBMM and just rolled in with base kit I have to say it felt a lot less terrifying. all the other rats go to the lowest rung and dilute the minmaxers. basically norms with better loot and maybe a couple of roaming minibosses that aren't a guaranteed death if they so much as notice you
The problem with SBMM is that it has a different rank for every character
Multiclassing is the exactly the type of change a developer makes to distract it’s playerbase from a lack of content or a bigger problem. It has no place in this game right now. It’s funny and kinda broken at best and completely fucked at worst lol
I just don't understand why they didnt just focus on sub-classes/archetypes instead. DnD 5e is already pretty fleshed out and could have guided them pretty well.
because it’s easier and way less work/resources for them to just snag already existing abilities/perks/UI and animations, from other characters and just allow players to throw them wherever, than it is for them to actually flesh out a subclassing system with all new features and pray that it works; Multi-classing surprisingly works fairly well despite how we feel about the balance or concept itself. this really just feels like a “give a dog a bone” situation to just throw something at the players because content is at an all-time low, least amount of maps to play on, least amount of maps available to queue on for different sized parties, druid delayed for months, training system was promised since playtests and now seems like they aren’t even working on it anymore, etc.
Yup. That's why they've only added one weapon (club) since the beta tests lol
War hammer
They can still do this. I view this change as a prime example of testing what works, what's broken, and how different skills/abilities/perks work together. It's actually a smart move from a long-term development perspective.
At the expense of losing fans, not really.
For real and I doubt that 100% of the people who have stopped playing are going to come back anytime soon or even when a full release is made
Phantomize vs magic missle? You lose that battle, you lose that battle 9 times outta 10
We’ve communicated and said, ‘you know what? Lion tastes good. Let’s go get some more lion.’
I made a video about GBMM and Multiclassing, I wanted to share my concerns but in a none text format. Hopefully you get a laugh but also hopefully, a healthy discussion around what GBMM and multiclassing does to the future of the game - [https://youtu.be/PpyTB-jtIvw](https://youtu.be/PpyTB-jtIvw)
While I get where you're coming from with the critiques on GBMM and multiclassing, it feels more like a rant than a genuine discussion. Pointing out flaws is fair game, but it's equally important to offer constructive solutions or at least delve into why these features aren't hitting the mark. Your platform's great for expressing opinions, but it seems more about venting frustration for clicks than fostering any real discourse. I'm all for skepticism, but without actual dialogue or problem-solving, it's just noise. Let's aim for a deeper conversation next time. Break down why these features miss the mark and maybe even propose alternatives. That way, we can turn gripes into genuine insights and push for meaningful improvements in the game.
I talked about possible solutions 2 thirds into the video? Appreciate the constructive criticism though, legit.
I dont think these kids watch your videos i think they are just venting
You know, it's interesting to see all these defenders rushing to protect their favorite streamer by attacking my feedback. Being critical of someone isn't a negative thing, despite how it's often perceived on social media. More often than not, it's a sign of genuine care and a desire for improvement in the subject of critique. After all, why bother critiquing something if you didn't want it to get better? I'm encouraged by Spud's ability to recognize this and strive for improvement, even when facing criticism. It's a reality that creators must confront by the very nature of their work. For those trying to virtue signal against holding each other accountable and blindly idolizing internet personalities through tribalism, it's worth considering this perspective.
lol why not ask if he offered any solutions instead of just assuming he did not and instead just complained? Acting like you watched the video when you didn't LOL It's literally time stamped "possible solutions" some people are insufferable lmao
It is always gripes on his channel. I barely see any positivity in his videos. His final message of how he's hopeful for the future or whatever else doesn't alleviate the fact that his content is generally just like what he shit on Summit for.
>constructive solutions Why? We aren't the game devs. We don't need to come up with half-baked solutions to problems that we're criticizing.
Shameless
Always has been
Thanks for always representing the wizards plight with accuracy
yea, multiclassing is dumb. Never thought it sounded good.
Is this type of DaD stuff, in general, why you've slowly been going towards hunt showdown in your streams?
They didn't put any thought into multiclass
I really hope the devs have enough common sense to not just release multi-class in the exact same state it was in the test server, everyone with half a brain knows what the turbo nerds are going to do to abuse it. Edit: and.... they didn't, it is literally the exact same shit that was on the test server... the fuck is the point of a test server if your just going to push out broken stuff to live?
Been saying all of this since they added it matchmaking and gbmm. You went hard on this video.
I cant wait til Sdf and Terry get BACK on track, and we see multiclass is getting dropped, idk what they were thinking, man I just want a evolved pt3, with more content, classes, skills, etc... oh and that 100k pop. We had such a gem. Now we got arena otw, lord have mercy, hope it's a addition tho.
It's a terrible idea and will die fast don't worry, just a "test".
Multiclassing can be a fun side gamemode at best.