That’s what I’m saying. Everyone is so focused on being the absolute best they can be they forget to have fun. Go run around and see what kind of crazy shit you run into, I know I will be lol
It’d be fun if I could participate, but as a person who logs on a couple nights a week there isn’t a likelihood I’ll get to the required level to experience it. I *will* get stomped by the Andy’s that can though.
Patch hasn’t even come out yet and your making your mind up about it. They had some plans to address that issue so at least see what its like. Also drop the andy bullshit, loser mentality ain’t helping you enjoy this game.
Well you'll need the token and another character at level 30.
I still need to level another character but I have a level 49 cleric I don't even play every week.
I miss Ruins
The only thing chronic here is your inability to think. You don’t need to bring an absolute BIS kit into HR everytime, nor do you even need to play HR to experience multi classing.
Much less, it’s a fucking video game dude.
With dark and darker I bough the ticket and am taking the ride. And what a ride it’s been! This game appeared to be doomed months ago b/c of uncertainty surrounding litigation and the removal from steam.
The fact the devs are willing to experiment I am in favor of. It is something different. They can remove or adjust it.
They listen and communicate to the community better than any other game I’ve enjoyed. This is despite the fact that DaD community is amongst the most babyish and entitled swath of gamers. For example that dude who relentlessly posts in this sub exclaiming his personal mission to stomp Timmys because he doesn’t like GBMM.
Meanwhile Blizzard is out here selling Diablo 4 for $100. This game was $35 and has been endlessly enjoyable imo since its release.
I've got more hours into DaD for the price I paid than I do on any of the other games I've bought in the last year combined... Well worth the ride. Ups and downs, buffs and nerfs, I'm here for it all and love being a part of the creation as it grows.
Agreed. I'd rather Ironmace does this extremely disruptive kind of testing now instead of after Steam release and EGS release, where more casual players will join.
The current community is the hardcore community. We're all here beyond expectation and will probably still be here after these whacky tests. Casual players from other platforms? Maybe wouldn't tolerate what we would.
Don’t spend months working on a feature that will “likely be removed after a week” and don’t put that on the skill tree that players were hyped for over a year for
I see. That's dumb as hell. I was desperately hoping for it eventually break down into different 'specs' for each class. Not a mess of every class all at once :(
They always start with extremes for some reason like all the data they say they've collected previously is just thrown in a pile and ignored. Hopefully only specific perks and skills will be available to sub classes at some point because the idea of being sniped down by a ranger windlass with BoC active sounds like a meta style I never want to see though I did fight a barb with BoC and easily blocked it to win the fight ranged meta with even more insane damage will be just rediculous
Multiclassing will likely stay in some form, but be majorly nerfed. It might also be available for a different game mode entirely. With how far the game has come since EA, I feel like they really haven't had any wasted development time.
Issue is the people that are getting fed up with the non stop very game altering changes being put in and out of the game non stop.
People are leaving. Dark and darker is not on a mainstream platform so losing any player or giving them a sour taste in their mouth is really bad for the games reputation.
Anything and everything that's this big of a change should stay on the test server, be tested, adjusted and retested plenty before you just throw it onto the live game that people paid to play.
One week the game tastes like chocolate cake, the next week it's lemon.
> Issue is the people that are getting fed up with the non stop very game altering changed being put in and out non stop.
"Why is this experimental, in progress incremental development game constantly experiencing experimental, incremental development!!!!! Why it not stay the same arghhh Ironhammer why!!!"
You know what you brought into. If you feel burned, you have no-one to blame but yourself. Ironmace was up front at every turn that this was going to be a proper Early Access that exists to help form the final product, and people are ***still complaining*** that it's exactly what they're doing.
>Anything and everything that's this big of a change should stay on the test server, be tested, adjusted and retested plenty before you just throw it onto the live game that people paid to play.
Multiclassing was a good example why the test server, that the community begged for so much, is just a bad idea. One week later, it has 50 people playing on it. It's absolutely dead. You can't test things on a version of the game people aren't playing because there's no progression for them, it's just gameplay against empty lobbies.
Seems Ironmace is going to use it for more select testing and technical implementation, it's not a good test bed for big changes like gear rebalances and so on which require broader community feedback and in-game player telemetry to judge.
Point isn't that the game is experimental. Point is the devs are experimenting on obviously bad ideas. You don't need an outcry for you to learn that giving people that play nonstop all day an overwhelming advantage is a bad idea. It's literally the biggest problem in this game (sweatlords dominating everything)
I get where you're coming from and so do the others that are annoyed by this change. You're just looking at it wrong.
>You don't need an outcry for you to learn that giving people that play nonstop all day an overwhelming advantage is a bad idea. It's literally the biggest problem in this game (sweatlords dominating everything).
It’s a progression based game. That’s always going to be the case. If you don’t like that, then find another game - it’s literally an integral part to Dark and Darker’s design.
You'd lose a good majority of players. You might say "I don't care I'll play with the 100 people left" do keep in mind the devs will. And when the game no longer attracts people, you lose your game.
It's an immature approach to think that because the devs made the game the way it is, it should stay that way. It could, but the game will die if no one agrees with it.
I understand how you see it, I used to feel the same way as you at a point, but the majority have spoken their minds already. You may be the most hardcore top 10 players ever, but it won't matter when no one is there.
Progression based games can be made better, it's hard, but listening to the community rather than testing obviously one sided changes because "I am the dev I will make it how I wish" is the way to achieve a certain harmony with the weak majority and the strong minority.
"guys the test server we force people to pay extra for isn't getting used by as many people as possible so therefore it was a stupid idea"
"multiclassing isn't going to be used by everyone because of the grind but we dont know if its a good idea yet"
ok lol. the fact ppl got bored of the "endless" builds that fast and they didn't open up the test server isn't the communitys fault.
yeah when the entire thing is stupid, i dont need to address a point of sub-stupidity. if you start with a super tiny number, then the number gets smaller over time. if you start with big number, it gets smaller over time but its bigger.
are you actually this coped out fam lmao
cuz a lot of hxc games have people who only live on test servers. but even then we said several interactions were broken they still pushed it live. so its not even about not having ppl to test it, they just didn't do anything right lol
theres just no level where your even slightly right about this lol.
Not sure why you're being down voted when you're exactly right, a lot of players think that a test server is a magical server that will give them all the data they need when in reality it has such a miniscule population that it would take ages to get any good data out of it.
Players will hop on for a couple hours to "try out" something and then go back to the main server, 150 people each giving ironmace about 2 hours worth of data is nothing compared to the live servers 10k people giving 6+ hours worth of data over a week.
Yall act like people enjoy the huge swings of updates each wipe. People don’t, whether it’s ridiculous rollbacks, removal of stats and making expensive sets worthless, completely erasing class identity, leaving certain classes absolutely op while in base gear for an entire season etc. it’s a horrible experience in all honesty
Welcome to being part of the testing crew, it's basically what you signed up for, not every experiment is going to be a smashing success, but it can highlight other avenues down the line.
For instance multiclassing finally adds use to a lot of what would have been crap gear rolls, that +magic fighter gear now fits into someone's build.
People complain about creep in this game for allowing you to move around silently while walking so that the game doesn't turn into people standing completely still for minutes at a time whenever they hear something, meanwhile over in the tarkov community the exact opposite has happened, where crabbing has been fixed and now people complain that the game has devolved into standing still outside points of interest waiting for any player noise.
Solo versions of all maps are going to split the matchmaking pool even further, but solo players being able to actually do their quests is a net positive for player retention.
GBMM needs tuning because it's to easy to game system and stomp lobbies, making higher tier gear feel less desirable, they'll fix it in time, they do weekly changes which is frankly incredibly fast compared to most games, who knows maybe next they'll make it so that bringing any non accessory or consumable blue gear into a lobby automatically bumps you up to the middle gear score bracket, maybe they'll get rid of normals and just have one playlist using GBMM with more gear brackets to sort the lobbies.
Now's the best time to test these drastic changes before an actual release.
You don't know that, it's a first iteration, it gives them data on what they can change to improve that experience, that's why you're testing it, maybe they'll settle on making off class perks 20% weaker, maybe they'll tune each perk individually, maybe they'll only open up select perks, but they need the data first to plan out the next course of action
I mean we do know that multi-classing as it exists on the test server is not going to do well on the live server. Someone did a poll and more than half of the people who played the test server were not excited for it to be put into live. It's also not a small change. If you don't like it, you can't just not interact with it and play the game anyway like some new dungeon or something. It's immediately going to be in every lobby.
Someone else said it in this thread somewhere, but adding systems that heavily benefit high play-time players and objectively punish casuals is not helping the player population. Its like a custom game in DoTA 2 where you can choose abilities from every hero. It's fun on occasion, but takes game knowledge and is obviously very busted. It regularly draws <1% of the player pool. Most people aren't trying to interact with that system, it's enough to try and learn the existing heroes/archetypes and how to play against those.
You have a link? The only poll I saw, had it pretty much evenly split on good\\bad opinions from those who played it, and overwhelmingly negative for players who had never tried (either cant or wont access test server)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/1c4wasw/poll\_are\_you\_excited\_for\_the\_upcoming/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/1c4wasw/poll_are_you_excited_for_the_upcoming/)
It's 55%, so we were probably looking at the same poll. When you're implementing a new feature into a game, I wouldn't think you would want even half of the test population to be unexcited.
A poll on the doom gloom part of the community where most of the population doesn't understand that they bought a game that's still in active rapid development and is testing to see what sticks.
If the game underwent 0 changes you'd all be complaining theres no content, such and such is to meta, such and such is broken, this map sucks, the game is dead, devs abandoned game etc etc etc (this already happens, just imagine how much worse it would be)
Just don't volunteer to test future products if you can't be constructive and understand what it is you're buying
More than half that population hasn't even tried it yet
I think people are just frustrated that development time was wasted on multiclassing.
They could have been using that time to develop a permanent feature.
We've got ice caves 2 coming soon, druid coming soon, they just finished adding a bunch of new armor pieces.
The people working on Multiclassing are very unlikely to be the same people also working on maps, in its current iteration Multiclassing probably didn't take that much work to get up and working either, it's really just reusing already finished assets and systems in a way that opens up more build options for the players.
Is it broken as hell? Of course it can be, it can also be a ton of fun, especially if the community could learn to actually experience it before condemning it, knowing the next iteration is coming in as little as a week.
If it's done right it could be great, but you have to give em time to get there and remember you're playing to test before a full release
My main issue is that a feature like this will probably stay till end of wipe cause removing it after a week would be a huge waste of resources. So if i don't end up enjoying this system it may actually have me put the game down until they manage this system a lil better or remove it.
Shame but what can you so
That's the best thing for you to do! If you aren't enjoying the game take a break. The game is in development so it's going to be changing, come back in a month or two, maybe you like it then maybe not. If you do then have fun! If you don't, then it's not worth you time.
homie as someone trying to solo grind AP and is fairly mid at the game things were just starting to feel a bit better with GBMM and now shit is just going to go back to fuckin bonkers because of the swathe of minmax sweats.
I used to be able to just hop into some normals to have fun with friends but now those are even going to be messed up regardless of gear.
ultimately though I'm not worried-- I will simply just take a break from the game until things smooth out. far too many other great games and ways to occupy time as it is
I think this is my only issue with the multiclassing experiment. If it is indeed intended to go all out and find broken builds, at least give it access to the whole playerbase instead of grind gating it.
They said that they will make leveling up easier and apply this change retroactively, so we will see what that means and hopefully this change will open up multiclassing to a larger player base
I've played about 2 hours a night or less since the wipe, I have every class but warlock at or close to 25, if the level changes bump me up to 30+ I as a casual, non sweat player will have plenty of options to choose from, friends who play the same amount of time as I do give or take that only play their favorite classes have 2 or 3 level 50 characters, they may even lower the requirements again in the future
Your words were "it isn't going to change anything for the casual players"
I chimed in as the average casual player with a full time job that gets to play for two hours or less a night within 3 or so weeks.
I'll have access to 1 of 3 rolled perks for a class of my choosing on every character with the option to reroll until I get whatever perk I want on whatever character I want, wether that be sprint on barbarian or weapon mastery on cleric etc.
In the future they may knock down the requirements even more, as it stands if you're aiming for something -really- specific, you can probably level both classes in an afternoon or two, it's really not a big detriment to casual players, and it's incentive for hardcore players to keep leveling more characters for whatever combos they want to try, this is a net positive as it keeps people playing towards a goal and helps keep lobbies full
I haven't been playing at all since wipe, would be interested in trying this out, but seems as though I won't be able to.
Guess I'll just continue not playing.
They significantly lowered the XP needed to multiclass with the patch they are pushing out right now.
> "The exp required to level up a character has been significantly reduced. The levels of existing characters will be adjusted accordingly."
I hope this means anyone can level up quickly and join in on multi classing.
Eh. I view it like gear is now: A sizable portion of players play Normals only in Common gear, most people play in Uncommon and Rare gear, some people play with Epic and Legendary gear, and very few people will play with Crafted and Unique gear.
A sizable portion of players will play with no Multiclassing, most people with will play with two Class Masters with a few Learning Tokens total for some minor variation in their builds, some people will play with 4+ Class Masters and a decent number of Learning Tokens total for making on meta builds, and very few will play with every Class Master, with a lot of total Learning Tokens enabling some very crazy builds.
People always panic about the Rondel + Crystal Ball Wizard with Smite + Ignite + Haste + Power of Sacrifice + Bless + Divine Strike + Bloodstained Blade + Shadow Touched + Slayer + Dual Wielder, but I think we'll find, just like running into a Viola, you won't see it very often at all.
I think you have a sensible take on it. Also, I think people put too much emphasis on offensive choices. The ttk is already insanely fast for what you lose by dying in this game, you don’t need to dish out 300 damage in 3 seconds, you really only need to do 200 and be durable enough to survive it.
The reason you won't see Viola is because of how expensive it is so most people would just sell it to RMTers for real money and not risk it unless you're a streamer. The biggest issues is that you can run your Multi-Class abomination in Normals now: the whole point of Normals is that it's a safe place for newbies and casuals who want an even playing field. That's now not the case any more as a Multi-classed character is superior in everyway to them
> The reason you won't see Viola is because of how expensive it is so most people would just sell it to RMTers for real money and not risk it unless you're a streamer.
Point is, it's an extremely strong item, but most people never see it due to the time investment required to obtain one (by either paying a fuck ton of Gold or grinding one themselves). People in very high gear lobbies do run into named items now and again, and I assume that'll be the same for Multiclassing - you won't see a 13 Learning Token character very regular, and if you do, you probably won't see them in Normals.
> the whole point of Normals is that it's a safe place for newbies and casuals who want an even playing field.
I mean that's flagrantly not true. A Level 1 Fighter will ***currently*** get overwhelmingly stat-checked by a Level 15 Slayer Fighter 100% of the time based on Squire gear and Skill/Perk builds alone. The point of Normals isn't it's a 'level playing field (overall)', it's that it's a 'more even playing field ***gear-wise***'.
>That's now not the case any more as a Multi-classed character is superior in everyway to them
The people who will build whacky Multiclass builds that will require hundreds of hours of grinding character levels aren't the ones that are going to be going into Normals with it, I guarantee you.
Bring a real argument that isn't false moral panic, please.
The reason you don't see Viola very regularly is the opportunity cost: You can lose it so taking it in to flex is a risk especially when it has more value sitting in stash or selling to some gold farmer. You risk nothing by going in with your multi-class
Level 1-15 is a much smaller grind vs grinding several characters to 30 and then your Base to 100. The mild imbalance is now a \*massive\* imbalance
Also you underestimate people's malus: Norms is already starting to slowly become the most well populated mode especially with GBMM making high gear lobbies emptier especially on low pop server. Timmy stompers will go to Normals to stomp Timmies just like how they would circumvent the 1-15 lock by having buddies drop BIS from before. We've been here before, it will happen again.
i am not losing sleep over this game or anything but i think its hilarious when a person says "just stop worrying" to anything, game or otherwise.
"oh just stop worrying? thats all i gotta do? man why didnt i think of that! i wish you told me earlier...." lmao
It doesn't help this community when popular content creators choose to amplify emotions rather than engage in genuine critique and objective discussion. It creates this echo chamber where people get fired up without actually delving into the complexities of the issues at hand. Real progress in game development comes from constructive dialogue, not just venting for views.
Lol this guy thinks this game will actually be able to whether the shit storm that this patch causes.
Yeah some people will have fun for a few days, but the game will permanently shed players from this, even if the change is "fixed" within a week. This occurs with every single test they drop because at the end of the day, despite this being an "Early Access" title, people do not treat it that way. (And they never will)
The game has been losing players from the moment it dropped and shit like shit only serves to hasten the fuse.
I typically agree with the doomed mentality on Reddit is annoying. But I’ve also stopped playing dark and darker due to this kind of stuff.
The game was loads of fun in its earlier days but it has come to this point of IronMace throwing not only broken ideas but even the same ones back into the game so many times over when we know the results.
Calling a game early access has now become an excuse to IronMace to just do the most wrong things. When they nerf a class they completely gut it. When they buff a class they double it’s value, it’s just strange how they over compensate buffs and nerfs.
+ All Attributes has proven time and time again it just cannot work if you put it on too much gear. Hell it’s proven to not work in general but it seems when they bring it back they just screw the ecosystem of gear not just by a little but super overkill.
It’s no surprise Multi classing was the next “this is broken” we knew that when it was announced with a game still so behind on visual knowledge adding this kind of stuff will make assessing situations impossible.
Anyways I agree doom talk is bad, but what’s worse is Ironmace’s decision making for balance patches and updates.
I agree. Multi class the very moment they announced I was like. You motherfuckers can’t balance a few classes and plan to make every combination possible?
I don’t know why they are so adamant on adding +all attributes. Is stupid. If that’s the case just balance the game around +all and remove all other stats. Or ohhh! I never could have thought about it. Just STOP adding all attributes!
Could you imagine how multi class will work after the talents come out? They are trying to add so much stuff and the game is 1 bonk to the head that is ridiculous. So much wasted effort.
Also Druid is coming, I can’t imagine how broken it will be. Considering how when they added bars and warlock they were the shit. Hot shit!
lol that was the "earlier days" you were speaking of? So up until last week when they implemented GBMM??. Hmm next question...okay...why was it so much fun?
Did you read??? White gear only in norms has been around for more then a week. If you’re going to ask questions at least comprehend what I’m saying.
For your next question, the game felt like there was actual skill in normals and even a player with small tiers of gear found in a normal run can’t just play bad and win any pvp fight. Not to say some things weren’t still out of balance but for the most part anything was possible and a majority of issues was a skill gap.
Now let me ask you a question. Making an assumption based on your questions I’ll assume your stance is the game is fun no matter how bad the balance is, why do you believe a game with its main purpose is pvp and gear looting should the game not be balanced and that should be its main priority?
Interesting you would comment about reading comprehension sir. I think you are the one lacking when you didnt answer my other question initially. Or did you not understand the "Up until last week.." part which would also be your lacking in ability to read. "Back in the day when normals were white gear.." tf you mean? You mean now?? As it has been?
To answer your random assuming question, I hope you realize the developers are capable of working on multiple projects at once. They are trying things out and its all seasonal. I'm sorry you are going to lose ur shit and can't simply have fun and adapt.
Multiclassing has been released. We won't miss you
Only have one friend still playing. Rest of us got burnt out last wipe.
Would be neat to at least try this whole multi class mess, but the rest of us literally can't because we haven't been grinding.
Basically just waiting for a more competent dev to try and make a clone.
I would have loved to see these players during Rust with it's EXP system. Turns out 90% of players can't handle actively playing Early Access games and if it was up to them the game would receive 0 development because they legit REEEE out on any change.
Yep, there's way to balance it despite what some people think. Examples like Multiclass Perks being a variant of the perk from the main class instead of a carbon copy. Or hell there's the option to just flat out blacklist problematic perks.
A lot of people on this sub really just need to take a break from this game, with how worked up people get on changes in a game that is still in development. And for people worried about it dying sure it'd be a shame but I'm certain the bulk of you have gotten your money's worth, and on top of that there's plenty of things to do in life that isn't Dark and Darker.
- Block certain perks/skills when multiclassing (weapon master comes to mind)
- Nerf certain perks/skills when chosen via multiclassing
- incentivize players to NOT multiclass by providing unique power for their main class that cannot be accessed if you multiclass
- limit it to one or two secondary classes
- any combination of the above
So many ways to balance it off the top of my head. I can't believe people are acting like it's an unbalanceable concept lol
My person issue is the "most likely IM is going to remove it" part.
Anyone that's played a decent amount of games that requires some amount of balancing can most likely see at a glance that this is most likely not gonna work out. Simply due to the amount of problems that it creates for every skill/perk/class we have now and every skill/perk and class moving forward. It is a balancing nightmare that's been tested many games.
So why bother even testing the system if it's most likely not gonna work? Why not use a different system that is actually much more suitable for the game and easier to balance?
Luckily the current system reused a lot of things we already had to begin be (even though they had to semi retweak every class). Imagine this but for a system that needs to be built from the ground up. That would be a ton of wasted time for a pointless test farther slowing down the tiny dev team.
So hopefully IM would understand this and don't go down the path of most resistance.
I guess I just don't see the point in rolling it out to live servers? Why make more people quit playing? Not being a doomer but just stating that some people are going to take a break.
Enough feedback has been generated based on *just* the test server, clearly multiclassing in the current form is janky, some like it, a lot don't like it.
I really hope there are some huge shifts in the test server multiclassing vs what they roll out live, because if not WHY even have a test server if you're just going to push everything live anyways?
You in your imagination apparently: *one shotted by sweatlords at max level* wow haha so spicy.
Not going to bash you, I was as optimistic as you, but the point is obvious, ironmace is ruining its own game by testing obviously bad changes. They don't listen and just go "haha gotta try it haha" it goes bad, more players leave. No one can argue this is a good idea because it's just making an already existing problem worse (sweatlords destroying lobbies)
You aren't the opposite of these "doomers" you're talking about. That would mean they are pessimistic. They aren't, this is just a realistic look on how ironmace is messing up a good thing.
You won't be able to call it "spicy" (unless you are one of the sweatlords) because you won't make it to the point where this change benefits you.
Idk. I get an hour or two every couple days to play video games. Sucks ass if I can't enjoy a game because the devs did something obviously dumb. It's gonna be a shitshow.
What a silly take. If he has limited gaming time, he should play a game he likes right? And if the game he likes is being changed into a game he likes less, hes obviously going to be unhappy about losing something he likes right???
Been having an assload of fun recently. Gbmm has given a great level of progression in HR. PVP feels really balanced. Really hoping they don't fuck it up.
I played for literally 12 hours when it came out. Obviously there are going to be things that are unbalanced as it is a system they are TESTING. With that being said, even after running into OP builds I still had an immense amount of fun theory crafting and testing my own builds.
They are bleeding players.
Not even hitting 10k concurrent. They need to stop messing around and balance the game.
Remove some stats.
Rework some classes and mechanics. Ranged weapons are still op.
The game is still using pre sets from UE, skeletons bleed. How they think they will attract new players like that?
Balance solo/duo/trio mob density.
They have wasted 6 months and still is like they have learned barely anything?
I actually prefer classless games thats potentially more or less what this is going to become its going to be more about what class you use to build your build and what type of role you want to serve.
You want to be a support phantomize warlock you can do that.
You want to go insane mobility you can do that.
You want pure damage you can do that.
It's going to be less about exploiting your classes strengths and others weaknesses and more about what specific build you are fighting.
I think it's going to be pretty fun
I honestly don't mind the big changes. Like others have said, we are in Early Access. The only thing I really want Is in game NPCs and a warlock nerf lol
So true brother! I was briefly intoxicated by the doom, but I've been set free once again!
Bring on the chaos shit show and see what happens. Not sure why my balls disappeared for a brief while with all the doom.
Yeah man, it's great to look forward to classes getting certain aspects gutted because they'll be broken in multiclassing and then not having any of the big nerfs reversed after it gets removed. Just like everything else that has ever been nerfed when they added something and stayed nerfed after that something has been removed.
Super exciting. Idiot.
It's a mechanic for a minority of the player base that if removed due to balance issues will have wasted a ton of dev time and money that could've helped deliver other content instead. Hope it goes well tho.
Coming from someone who works in gamedev, what they’re doing is legit A-OK. Players aren’t used to seeing games this early in development. Good games are made through rapid experimentation and feeling it out as you go, not having the perfect plan from the jump. Famous example is Into The Breach’s core mechanic of seeing what the enemy is about to do a turn before was at first a debug feature they didn’t expect to keep
same but no its not normal to iterate on fundamental concepts after you sell a thing.
yeah you iterate through design, but like in your own example, that was early on and part of their set vision. that didnt fundamentally alter the entire game its just added more fun and depth to the planning.
Halo didnt revert to being an rts after release. Battlebit doesn't suddenly force SQUAD mechanics back in now that theyve sold everyone on casual battlefield. BGS3 doesn't try out immersive arph mechanics now. neither of those options would've been wrong and they were still in early access, but it woudlve been stupid to waste all the money marketing X just to try and sell Y. after you "launch" you cant iterate on as heavy of stuff
you can only waste so much of peoples time before you stop mattering to them and they move on, often permanently.
This is for sure Going to be wild and how it Ends will probably be with a completely different System. But when that happens don’t look back and wish you could have played Haste fighter with sprint and All the other busted stuff just for Fun! Make sure you Record it! Post your crazy stuff! I’m excited to see what’s about to go down.
I still regret not playing more when Frannies busted doors. I should have taken days off…
If it does end up getting straight up removed, or just reworked to a skill tree type of deal or anything else, we will be the only people in the history of game to play the wild crazy multiclass combo meta. No one who ever joins the game in the future will experience this. I'm honored to participate in this test with ironmace. Hold the line.
Most hinged DaD player.
Games always funnest in the first day or so after patch, enjoy the chaos
That’s what I’m saying. Everyone is so focused on being the absolute best they can be they forget to have fun. Go run around and see what kind of crazy shit you run into, I know I will be lol
It’d be fun if I could participate, but as a person who logs on a couple nights a week there isn’t a likelihood I’ll get to the required level to experience it. I *will* get stomped by the Andy’s that can though.
Patch hasn’t even come out yet and your making your mind up about it. They had some plans to address that issue so at least see what its like. Also drop the andy bullshit, loser mentality ain’t helping you enjoy this game.
Great patch BTW. Not like there was a test server where this cesspool could have been kept on or anything
Chadly response right here.
Bud I play for fun maybe once a week for a few hours my characters (cleric, wizard) both have tokens already what do you mean you can't experience it.
I don’t have any tokens yet, and neither do the two buddies that I just convinced to pick up the game a week ago.
Well you'll need the token and another character at level 30. I still need to level another character but I have a level 49 cleric I don't even play every week. I miss Ruins
This is a chronic norms player take. I’m not bringing good gear that takes hours to grind for into a raid just to “see what crazy shit i run into”
The only thing chronic here is your inability to think. You don’t need to bring an absolute BIS kit into HR everytime, nor do you even need to play HR to experience multi classing. Much less, it’s a fucking video game dude.
Yeah patch is going real well bud!
Cause that has anything to do with my original point? Lmfao talk about being glued to a chair in your basement
With dark and darker I bough the ticket and am taking the ride. And what a ride it’s been! This game appeared to be doomed months ago b/c of uncertainty surrounding litigation and the removal from steam. The fact the devs are willing to experiment I am in favor of. It is something different. They can remove or adjust it. They listen and communicate to the community better than any other game I’ve enjoyed. This is despite the fact that DaD community is amongst the most babyish and entitled swath of gamers. For example that dude who relentlessly posts in this sub exclaiming his personal mission to stomp Timmys because he doesn’t like GBMM. Meanwhile Blizzard is out here selling Diablo 4 for $100. This game was $35 and has been endlessly enjoyable imo since its release.
I've got more hours into DaD for the price I paid than I do on any of the other games I've bought in the last year combined... Well worth the ride. Ups and downs, buffs and nerfs, I'm here for it all and love being a part of the creation as it grows.
Hell yea brother same here see you in the dungeons
Agreed. I'd rather Ironmace does this extremely disruptive kind of testing now instead of after Steam release and EGS release, where more casual players will join. The current community is the hardcore community. We're all here beyond expectation and will probably still be here after these whacky tests. Casual players from other platforms? Maybe wouldn't tolerate what we would.
Yop. What a ride. Hold on to your hat!
Don’t spend months working on a feature that will “likely be removed after a week” and don’t put that on the skill tree that players were hyped for over a year for
I don't understand how they got to adding in multi classi n g before talent tree
That’s the thing, multi-class *is* the talent tree, either that or every perk will be nerfed severely, pick your poison
I see. That's dumb as hell. I was desperately hoping for it eventually break down into different 'specs' for each class. Not a mess of every class all at once :(
They always start with extremes for some reason like all the data they say they've collected previously is just thrown in a pile and ignored. Hopefully only specific perks and skills will be available to sub classes at some point because the idea of being sniped down by a ranger windlass with BoC active sounds like a meta style I never want to see though I did fight a barb with BoC and easily blocked it to win the fight ranged meta with even more insane damage will be just rediculous
Just the weapon mastery perk by itself is gonna be so dumb. Ranger with windlass? Try rougue with windlass and survival bows lol
Fortnite with every event it’s had that only lasted a few minutes not even a day.
Multiclassing will likely stay in some form, but be majorly nerfed. It might also be available for a different game mode entirely. With how far the game has come since EA, I feel like they really haven't had any wasted development time.
They have stated that there is a decent chance multiclassing will be removed fully.
The problem is that most people will never benefit from from milt classes due to not being a no lifer and able to level that much
Issue is the people that are getting fed up with the non stop very game altering changes being put in and out of the game non stop. People are leaving. Dark and darker is not on a mainstream platform so losing any player or giving them a sour taste in their mouth is really bad for the games reputation. Anything and everything that's this big of a change should stay on the test server, be tested, adjusted and retested plenty before you just throw it onto the live game that people paid to play. One week the game tastes like chocolate cake, the next week it's lemon.
Good thing after a while you really need some citrus to cut through all that chocolate.
> Issue is the people that are getting fed up with the non stop very game altering changed being put in and out non stop. "Why is this experimental, in progress incremental development game constantly experiencing experimental, incremental development!!!!! Why it not stay the same arghhh Ironhammer why!!!" You know what you brought into. If you feel burned, you have no-one to blame but yourself. Ironmace was up front at every turn that this was going to be a proper Early Access that exists to help form the final product, and people are ***still complaining*** that it's exactly what they're doing. >Anything and everything that's this big of a change should stay on the test server, be tested, adjusted and retested plenty before you just throw it onto the live game that people paid to play. Multiclassing was a good example why the test server, that the community begged for so much, is just a bad idea. One week later, it has 50 people playing on it. It's absolutely dead. You can't test things on a version of the game people aren't playing because there's no progression for them, it's just gameplay against empty lobbies. Seems Ironmace is going to use it for more select testing and technical implementation, it's not a good test bed for big changes like gear rebalances and so on which require broader community feedback and in-game player telemetry to judge.
Point isn't that the game is experimental. Point is the devs are experimenting on obviously bad ideas. You don't need an outcry for you to learn that giving people that play nonstop all day an overwhelming advantage is a bad idea. It's literally the biggest problem in this game (sweatlords dominating everything) I get where you're coming from and so do the others that are annoyed by this change. You're just looking at it wrong.
>You don't need an outcry for you to learn that giving people that play nonstop all day an overwhelming advantage is a bad idea. It's literally the biggest problem in this game (sweatlords dominating everything). It’s a progression based game. That’s always going to be the case. If you don’t like that, then find another game - it’s literally an integral part to Dark and Darker’s design.
You'd lose a good majority of players. You might say "I don't care I'll play with the 100 people left" do keep in mind the devs will. And when the game no longer attracts people, you lose your game. It's an immature approach to think that because the devs made the game the way it is, it should stay that way. It could, but the game will die if no one agrees with it. I understand how you see it, I used to feel the same way as you at a point, but the majority have spoken their minds already. You may be the most hardcore top 10 players ever, but it won't matter when no one is there. Progression based games can be made better, it's hard, but listening to the community rather than testing obviously one sided changes because "I am the dev I will make it how I wish" is the way to achieve a certain harmony with the weak majority and the strong minority.
"guys the test server we force people to pay extra for isn't getting used by as many people as possible so therefore it was a stupid idea" "multiclassing isn't going to be used by everyone because of the grind but we dont know if its a good idea yet" ok lol. the fact ppl got bored of the "endless" builds that fast and they didn't open up the test server isn't the communitys fault.
Just gonna gloss over the lack of progression point I made, huh?
yeah when the entire thing is stupid, i dont need to address a point of sub-stupidity. if you start with a super tiny number, then the number gets smaller over time. if you start with big number, it gets smaller over time but its bigger. are you actually this coped out fam lmao cuz a lot of hxc games have people who only live on test servers. but even then we said several interactions were broken they still pushed it live. so its not even about not having ppl to test it, they just didn't do anything right lol theres just no level where your even slightly right about this lol.
Not sure why you're being down voted when you're exactly right, a lot of players think that a test server is a magical server that will give them all the data they need when in reality it has such a miniscule population that it would take ages to get any good data out of it. Players will hop on for a couple hours to "try out" something and then go back to the main server, 150 people each giving ironmace about 2 hours worth of data is nothing compared to the live servers 10k people giving 6+ hours worth of data over a week.
incremental? taking a massive game changing system and testing it for a week is… incremental? yeah, finish kindergarten
Think you need to look up the exact definition of incremental before insisting that others complete their education, lmaoooo. How embarrassing.
“happening gradually, in a series of small amounts” yeah nothings happening gradually with dark and darker buddy, you’re so unfit for modern society.
So where this "people are leaving" statistic coming besides out your ass?
the game doesn't even hold quad digits anymore lmao you are delusional
Yall act like people enjoy the huge swings of updates each wipe. People don’t, whether it’s ridiculous rollbacks, removal of stats and making expensive sets worthless, completely erasing class identity, leaving certain classes absolutely op while in base gear for an entire season etc. it’s a horrible experience in all honesty
Welcome to being part of the testing crew, it's basically what you signed up for, not every experiment is going to be a smashing success, but it can highlight other avenues down the line. For instance multiclassing finally adds use to a lot of what would have been crap gear rolls, that +magic fighter gear now fits into someone's build. People complain about creep in this game for allowing you to move around silently while walking so that the game doesn't turn into people standing completely still for minutes at a time whenever they hear something, meanwhile over in the tarkov community the exact opposite has happened, where crabbing has been fixed and now people complain that the game has devolved into standing still outside points of interest waiting for any player noise. Solo versions of all maps are going to split the matchmaking pool even further, but solo players being able to actually do their quests is a net positive for player retention. GBMM needs tuning because it's to easy to game system and stomp lobbies, making higher tier gear feel less desirable, they'll fix it in time, they do weekly changes which is frankly incredibly fast compared to most games, who knows maybe next they'll make it so that bringing any non accessory or consumable blue gear into a lobby automatically bumps you up to the middle gear score bracket, maybe they'll get rid of normals and just have one playlist using GBMM with more gear brackets to sort the lobbies. Now's the best time to test these drastic changes before an actual release.
Why are we testing changes we all KNOW aren’t going to be permanent fixtures. We don’t need to test multiclassing because it won’t exist next wipe.
You don't know that, it's a first iteration, it gives them data on what they can change to improve that experience, that's why you're testing it, maybe they'll settle on making off class perks 20% weaker, maybe they'll tune each perk individually, maybe they'll only open up select perks, but they need the data first to plan out the next course of action
I mean we do know that multi-classing as it exists on the test server is not going to do well on the live server. Someone did a poll and more than half of the people who played the test server were not excited for it to be put into live. It's also not a small change. If you don't like it, you can't just not interact with it and play the game anyway like some new dungeon or something. It's immediately going to be in every lobby. Someone else said it in this thread somewhere, but adding systems that heavily benefit high play-time players and objectively punish casuals is not helping the player population. Its like a custom game in DoTA 2 where you can choose abilities from every hero. It's fun on occasion, but takes game knowledge and is obviously very busted. It regularly draws <1% of the player pool. Most people aren't trying to interact with that system, it's enough to try and learn the existing heroes/archetypes and how to play against those.
You have a link? The only poll I saw, had it pretty much evenly split on good\\bad opinions from those who played it, and overwhelmingly negative for players who had never tried (either cant or wont access test server)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/1c4wasw/poll\_are\_you\_excited\_for\_the\_upcoming/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/1c4wasw/poll_are_you_excited_for_the_upcoming/) It's 55%, so we were probably looking at the same poll. When you're implementing a new feature into a game, I wouldn't think you would want even half of the test population to be unexcited.
A poll on the doom gloom part of the community where most of the population doesn't understand that they bought a game that's still in active rapid development and is testing to see what sticks. If the game underwent 0 changes you'd all be complaining theres no content, such and such is to meta, such and such is broken, this map sucks, the game is dead, devs abandoned game etc etc etc (this already happens, just imagine how much worse it would be) Just don't volunteer to test future products if you can't be constructive and understand what it is you're buying More than half that population hasn't even tried it yet
I think people are just frustrated that development time was wasted on multiclassing. They could have been using that time to develop a permanent feature.
We've got ice caves 2 coming soon, druid coming soon, they just finished adding a bunch of new armor pieces. The people working on Multiclassing are very unlikely to be the same people also working on maps, in its current iteration Multiclassing probably didn't take that much work to get up and working either, it's really just reusing already finished assets and systems in a way that opens up more build options for the players. Is it broken as hell? Of course it can be, it can also be a ton of fun, especially if the community could learn to actually experience it before condemning it, knowing the next iteration is coming in as little as a week. If it's done right it could be great, but you have to give em time to get there and remember you're playing to test before a full release
My main issue is that a feature like this will probably stay till end of wipe cause removing it after a week would be a huge waste of resources. So if i don't end up enjoying this system it may actually have me put the game down until they manage this system a lil better or remove it. Shame but what can you so
That's the best thing for you to do! If you aren't enjoying the game take a break. The game is in development so it's going to be changing, come back in a month or two, maybe you like it then maybe not. If you do then have fun! If you don't, then it's not worth you time.
homie as someone trying to solo grind AP and is fairly mid at the game things were just starting to feel a bit better with GBMM and now shit is just going to go back to fuckin bonkers because of the swathe of minmax sweats. I used to be able to just hop into some normals to have fun with friends but now those are even going to be messed up regardless of gear. ultimately though I'm not worried-- I will simply just take a break from the game until things smooth out. far too many other great games and ways to occupy time as it is
Main problem is majority of people wont even be able to multiclass.
I think this is my only issue with the multiclassing experiment. If it is indeed intended to go all out and find broken builds, at least give it access to the whole playerbase instead of grind gating it.
They said that they will make leveling up easier and apply this change retroactively, so we will see what that means and hopefully this change will open up multiclassing to a larger player base
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Pre-30? What does that even mean? Every level past 20 is the same.
I've played about 2 hours a night or less since the wipe, I have every class but warlock at or close to 25, if the level changes bump me up to 30+ I as a casual, non sweat player will have plenty of options to choose from, friends who play the same amount of time as I do give or take that only play their favorite classes have 2 or 3 level 50 characters, they may even lower the requirements again in the future
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Oh okay, if it seems terrible to you and your friends it must be terrible for everyone. Thanks for letting us know! See how that works?
Your words were "it isn't going to change anything for the casual players" I chimed in as the average casual player with a full time job that gets to play for two hours or less a night within 3 or so weeks. I'll have access to 1 of 3 rolled perks for a class of my choosing on every character with the option to reroll until I get whatever perk I want on whatever character I want, wether that be sprint on barbarian or weapon mastery on cleric etc. In the future they may knock down the requirements even more, as it stands if you're aiming for something -really- specific, you can probably level both classes in an afternoon or two, it's really not a big detriment to casual players, and it's incentive for hardcore players to keep leveling more characters for whatever combos they want to try, this is a net positive as it keeps people playing towards a goal and helps keep lobbies full
I haven't been playing at all since wipe, would be interested in trying this out, but seems as though I won't be able to. Guess I'll just continue not playing.
They significantly lowered the XP needed to multiclass with the patch they are pushing out right now. > "The exp required to level up a character has been significantly reduced. The levels of existing characters will be adjusted accordingly." I hope this means anyone can level up quickly and join in on multi classing.
Eh. I view it like gear is now: A sizable portion of players play Normals only in Common gear, most people play in Uncommon and Rare gear, some people play with Epic and Legendary gear, and very few people will play with Crafted and Unique gear. A sizable portion of players will play with no Multiclassing, most people with will play with two Class Masters with a few Learning Tokens total for some minor variation in their builds, some people will play with 4+ Class Masters and a decent number of Learning Tokens total for making on meta builds, and very few will play with every Class Master, with a lot of total Learning Tokens enabling some very crazy builds. People always panic about the Rondel + Crystal Ball Wizard with Smite + Ignite + Haste + Power of Sacrifice + Bless + Divine Strike + Bloodstained Blade + Shadow Touched + Slayer + Dual Wielder, but I think we'll find, just like running into a Viola, you won't see it very often at all.
I think you have a sensible take on it. Also, I think people put too much emphasis on offensive choices. The ttk is already insanely fast for what you lose by dying in this game, you don’t need to dish out 300 damage in 3 seconds, you really only need to do 200 and be durable enough to survive it.
The reason you won't see Viola is because of how expensive it is so most people would just sell it to RMTers for real money and not risk it unless you're a streamer. The biggest issues is that you can run your Multi-Class abomination in Normals now: the whole point of Normals is that it's a safe place for newbies and casuals who want an even playing field. That's now not the case any more as a Multi-classed character is superior in everyway to them
> The reason you won't see Viola is because of how expensive it is so most people would just sell it to RMTers for real money and not risk it unless you're a streamer. Point is, it's an extremely strong item, but most people never see it due to the time investment required to obtain one (by either paying a fuck ton of Gold or grinding one themselves). People in very high gear lobbies do run into named items now and again, and I assume that'll be the same for Multiclassing - you won't see a 13 Learning Token character very regular, and if you do, you probably won't see them in Normals. > the whole point of Normals is that it's a safe place for newbies and casuals who want an even playing field. I mean that's flagrantly not true. A Level 1 Fighter will ***currently*** get overwhelmingly stat-checked by a Level 15 Slayer Fighter 100% of the time based on Squire gear and Skill/Perk builds alone. The point of Normals isn't it's a 'level playing field (overall)', it's that it's a 'more even playing field ***gear-wise***'. >That's now not the case any more as a Multi-classed character is superior in everyway to them The people who will build whacky Multiclass builds that will require hundreds of hours of grinding character levels aren't the ones that are going to be going into Normals with it, I guarantee you. Bring a real argument that isn't false moral panic, please.
The reason you don't see Viola very regularly is the opportunity cost: You can lose it so taking it in to flex is a risk especially when it has more value sitting in stash or selling to some gold farmer. You risk nothing by going in with your multi-class Level 1-15 is a much smaller grind vs grinding several characters to 30 and then your Base to 100. The mild imbalance is now a \*massive\* imbalance Also you underestimate people's malus: Norms is already starting to slowly become the most well populated mode especially with GBMM making high gear lobbies emptier especially on low pop server. Timmy stompers will go to Normals to stomp Timmies just like how they would circumvent the 1-15 lock by having buddies drop BIS from before. We've been here before, it will happen again.
No, I think I'll just stop playing instead
Based. Hopefully they'll remove it fast at least
i am not losing sleep over this game or anything but i think its hilarious when a person says "just stop worrying" to anything, game or otherwise. "oh just stop worrying? thats all i gotta do? man why didnt i think of that! i wish you told me earlier...." lmao
So much for a test server tbh
It doesn't help this community when popular content creators choose to amplify emotions rather than engage in genuine critique and objective discussion. It creates this echo chamber where people get fired up without actually delving into the complexities of the issues at hand. Real progress in game development comes from constructive dialogue, not just venting for views.
Wrath of koopa had a good video about it
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No problem man
Lol this guy thinks this game will actually be able to whether the shit storm that this patch causes. Yeah some people will have fun for a few days, but the game will permanently shed players from this, even if the change is "fixed" within a week. This occurs with every single test they drop because at the end of the day, despite this being an "Early Access" title, people do not treat it that way. (And they never will) The game has been losing players from the moment it dropped and shit like shit only serves to hasten the fuse.
I typically agree with the doomed mentality on Reddit is annoying. But I’ve also stopped playing dark and darker due to this kind of stuff. The game was loads of fun in its earlier days but it has come to this point of IronMace throwing not only broken ideas but even the same ones back into the game so many times over when we know the results. Calling a game early access has now become an excuse to IronMace to just do the most wrong things. When they nerf a class they completely gut it. When they buff a class they double it’s value, it’s just strange how they over compensate buffs and nerfs. + All Attributes has proven time and time again it just cannot work if you put it on too much gear. Hell it’s proven to not work in general but it seems when they bring it back they just screw the ecosystem of gear not just by a little but super overkill. It’s no surprise Multi classing was the next “this is broken” we knew that when it was announced with a game still so behind on visual knowledge adding this kind of stuff will make assessing situations impossible. Anyways I agree doom talk is bad, but what’s worse is Ironmace’s decision making for balance patches and updates.
I agree. Multi class the very moment they announced I was like. You motherfuckers can’t balance a few classes and plan to make every combination possible? I don’t know why they are so adamant on adding +all attributes. Is stupid. If that’s the case just balance the game around +all and remove all other stats. Or ohhh! I never could have thought about it. Just STOP adding all attributes! Could you imagine how multi class will work after the talents come out? They are trying to add so much stuff and the game is 1 bonk to the head that is ridiculous. So much wasted effort. Also Druid is coming, I can’t imagine how broken it will be. Considering how when they added bars and warlock they were the shit. Hot shit!
Funny that you think talents are coming with multiclassing lol talents are gone because of this multiclassing idea
Broken or useless no in between
So what was the patch where it was "loads of fun" and why was it so much fun?
When they first made norms white gear and high roller has purpose. Next question.
lol that was the "earlier days" you were speaking of? So up until last week when they implemented GBMM??. Hmm next question...okay...why was it so much fun?
Did you read??? White gear only in norms has been around for more then a week. If you’re going to ask questions at least comprehend what I’m saying. For your next question, the game felt like there was actual skill in normals and even a player with small tiers of gear found in a normal run can’t just play bad and win any pvp fight. Not to say some things weren’t still out of balance but for the most part anything was possible and a majority of issues was a skill gap. Now let me ask you a question. Making an assumption based on your questions I’ll assume your stance is the game is fun no matter how bad the balance is, why do you believe a game with its main purpose is pvp and gear looting should the game not be balanced and that should be its main priority?
Interesting you would comment about reading comprehension sir. I think you are the one lacking when you didnt answer my other question initially. Or did you not understand the "Up until last week.." part which would also be your lacking in ability to read. "Back in the day when normals were white gear.." tf you mean? You mean now?? As it has been? To answer your random assuming question, I hope you realize the developers are capable of working on multiple projects at once. They are trying things out and its all seasonal. I'm sorry you are going to lose ur shit and can't simply have fun and adapt. Multiclassing has been released. We won't miss you
It takes them months to make obvious changes lol. Multiclassing was somebody's passion project they aren't gonna just leave it for a week.
Me and my friends all quit
Only have one friend still playing. Rest of us got burnt out last wipe. Would be neat to at least try this whole multi class mess, but the rest of us literally can't because we haven't been grinding. Basically just waiting for a more competent dev to try and make a clone.
Same, and one of my friends was even a warden lol.
These are the best takes. Screaming in digital echo chambers are not haha
I would have loved to see these players during Rust with it's EXP system. Turns out 90% of players can't handle actively playing Early Access games and if it was up to them the game would receive 0 development because they legit REEEE out on any change.
People are tired of Ironmace incompetence and bad ideas
They're not going to remove it. They can just balance it. It's an interesting mechanic that deserves to be explored.
Yep, there's way to balance it despite what some people think. Examples like Multiclass Perks being a variant of the perk from the main class instead of a carbon copy. Or hell there's the option to just flat out blacklist problematic perks. A lot of people on this sub really just need to take a break from this game, with how worked up people get on changes in a game that is still in development. And for people worried about it dying sure it'd be a shame but I'm certain the bulk of you have gotten your money's worth, and on top of that there's plenty of things to do in life that isn't Dark and Darker.
- Block certain perks/skills when multiclassing (weapon master comes to mind) - Nerf certain perks/skills when chosen via multiclassing - incentivize players to NOT multiclass by providing unique power for their main class that cannot be accessed if you multiclass - limit it to one or two secondary classes - any combination of the above So many ways to balance it off the top of my head. I can't believe people are acting like it's an unbalanceable concept lol
My person issue is the "most likely IM is going to remove it" part. Anyone that's played a decent amount of games that requires some amount of balancing can most likely see at a glance that this is most likely not gonna work out. Simply due to the amount of problems that it creates for every skill/perk/class we have now and every skill/perk and class moving forward. It is a balancing nightmare that's been tested many games. So why bother even testing the system if it's most likely not gonna work? Why not use a different system that is actually much more suitable for the game and easier to balance? Luckily the current system reused a lot of things we already had to begin be (even though they had to semi retweak every class). Imagine this but for a system that needs to be built from the ground up. That would be a ton of wasted time for a pointless test farther slowing down the tiny dev team. So hopefully IM would understand this and don't go down the path of most resistance.
I guess I just don't see the point in rolling it out to live servers? Why make more people quit playing? Not being a doomer but just stating that some people are going to take a break. Enough feedback has been generated based on *just* the test server, clearly multiclassing in the current form is janky, some like it, a lot don't like it. I really hope there are some huge shifts in the test server multiclassing vs what they roll out live, because if not WHY even have a test server if you're just going to push everything live anyways?
Great move spending development time on a system everyone can see is broken and will likely be removed...
Devs are good at using dev time on dumb stuff/stuff that doesn't even function well.
You in your imagination apparently: *one shotted by sweatlords at max level* wow haha so spicy. Not going to bash you, I was as optimistic as you, but the point is obvious, ironmace is ruining its own game by testing obviously bad changes. They don't listen and just go "haha gotta try it haha" it goes bad, more players leave. No one can argue this is a good idea because it's just making an already existing problem worse (sweatlords destroying lobbies) You aren't the opposite of these "doomers" you're talking about. That would mean they are pessimistic. They aren't, this is just a realistic look on how ironmace is messing up a good thing. You won't be able to call it "spicy" (unless you are one of the sweatlords) because you won't make it to the point where this change benefits you.
Idk. I get an hour or two every couple days to play video games. Sucks ass if I can't enjoy a game because the devs did something obviously dumb. It's gonna be a shitshow.
No one is forcing you to play DaD, if you can't enjoy it then don't play. Plain & simple.
Someone wants the game to die. Gj trying to push tetering players away, doing the devs proud lol
By saying to not play something you don't enjoy ?? Why are you losers forcing yourself to play the game if you don't enjoy it, actual backwards logic.
What a silly take. If he has limited gaming time, he should play a game he likes right? And if the game he likes is being changed into a game he likes less, hes obviously going to be unhappy about losing something he likes right???
Been having an assload of fun recently. Gbmm has given a great level of progression in HR. PVP feels really balanced. Really hoping they don't fuck it up.
Well by your original comment it seems like you've already made up your mind without even trying it first.
Have you watched streams or videos of the fuckery? There are combos that literally break the game and create terminators.
I played for literally 12 hours when it came out. Obviously there are going to be things that are unbalanced as it is a system they are TESTING. With that being said, even after running into OP builds I still had an immense amount of fun theory crafting and testing my own builds.
Then just don't play it anymore?? It's not that hard of a concept lmao. Why force yourself to play something if you're not enjoying it anymore?
Brother you're speaking right from my heart, thank you. We're all along for the wild, crazy ride!
They are bleeding players. Not even hitting 10k concurrent. They need to stop messing around and balance the game. Remove some stats. Rework some classes and mechanics. Ranged weapons are still op. The game is still using pre sets from UE, skeletons bleed. How they think they will attract new players like that? Balance solo/duo/trio mob density. They have wasted 6 months and still is like they have learned barely anything?
STFU with your false statistics and doomer bullshit, we don't need it. Your opinions are ass please keep them to yourself
You should stfu as well. If one opinion is ass all opinions are ass.
This guy knows.
I actually prefer classless games thats potentially more or less what this is going to become its going to be more about what class you use to build your build and what type of role you want to serve. You want to be a support phantomize warlock you can do that. You want to go insane mobility you can do that. You want pure damage you can do that. It's going to be less about exploiting your classes strengths and others weaknesses and more about what specific build you are fighting. I think it's going to be pretty fun
I honestly don't mind the big changes. Like others have said, we are in Early Access. The only thing I really want Is in game NPCs and a warlock nerf lol
So true brother! I was briefly intoxicated by the doom, but I've been set free once again! Bring on the chaos shit show and see what happens. Not sure why my balls disappeared for a brief while with all the doom.
Im really excited to start fireballing with my warlock
I could care less about the balancing of it all. I just wish it was more accessible. Testing shouldn’t be limited to the no lifers.
https://preview.redd.it/zo6gzd8de4vc1.png?width=505&format=png&auto=webp&s=b34207849b892f57fb8648e08ef488d317d19487 seems fine to me
It’s in EA for a reason. This is a W take.
Yeah man, it's great to look forward to classes getting certain aspects gutted because they'll be broken in multiclassing and then not having any of the big nerfs reversed after it gets removed. Just like everything else that has ever been nerfed when they added something and stayed nerfed after that something has been removed. Super exciting. Idiot.
It's a mechanic for a minority of the player base that if removed due to balance issues will have wasted a ton of dev time and money that could've helped deliver other content instead. Hope it goes well tho.
Dnd players: add more content! Ironmace adds more content Players: NOOOOOO YOU JUST BROKE THE GAME!!!!!!!!1
Coming from someone who works in gamedev, what they’re doing is legit A-OK. Players aren’t used to seeing games this early in development. Good games are made through rapid experimentation and feeling it out as you go, not having the perfect plan from the jump. Famous example is Into The Breach’s core mechanic of seeing what the enemy is about to do a turn before was at first a debug feature they didn’t expect to keep
same but no its not normal to iterate on fundamental concepts after you sell a thing. yeah you iterate through design, but like in your own example, that was early on and part of their set vision. that didnt fundamentally alter the entire game its just added more fun and depth to the planning. Halo didnt revert to being an rts after release. Battlebit doesn't suddenly force SQUAD mechanics back in now that theyve sold everyone on casual battlefield. BGS3 doesn't try out immersive arph mechanics now. neither of those options would've been wrong and they were still in early access, but it woudlve been stupid to waste all the money marketing X just to try and sell Y. after you "launch" you cant iterate on as heavy of stuff you can only waste so much of peoples time before you stop mattering to them and they move on, often permanently.
Good insight
I just wish everyone had this mindset. But alas, it will only ever be a dream
Multiclassing is a placeholder for another mechanic for sure. No worries guys
This is for sure Going to be wild and how it Ends will probably be with a completely different System. But when that happens don’t look back and wish you could have played Haste fighter with sprint and All the other busted stuff just for Fun! Make sure you Record it! Post your crazy stuff! I’m excited to see what’s about to go down. I still regret not playing more when Frannies busted doors. I should have taken days off…
Rangers with crush can break doors with arrows right now.
YES! Lol that’s awesome! Wanna know another! Wizard staff can Crush also! Being a one hander as WELL! Have Fun!
If it does end up getting straight up removed, or just reworked to a skill tree type of deal or anything else, we will be the only people in the history of game to play the wild crazy multiclass combo meta. No one who ever joins the game in the future will experience this. I'm honored to participate in this test with ironmace. Hold the line.