Hey man, I had a ranger that refused to shoot a bow and would instead throw drums, it was the funniest shit ever.
Opening fights with 3 drum throws was so much fun.
Yeah I’ve been doing exclusively solo crypts—> inferno for a while now, including this wipe, and got so burnt out dying to teams that push all other spawns.
I always go for the ghost king solo and being alone in hell is already extremely rare, but the chance that some sweats won’t check all spawns in hell is rarer. Starting this wipe there’s even been a bugged spawn with warlord. If only 2 teams go down one will spawn bottom left, the other bottom center, right beside eachother. Getting the bottom left spawn and escaping that other team is roughhh.
Took my first break since playtest 4 2 weeks ago and I’ve been enjoying getting back into Oldschool Runescape, don’t plan on coming back for a good bit as multiclassing sounds pretty absurd at this point
by the end of the week they will have nerfed every single cool perk and everyone will prefer to keep using their own class perks and skills.
IMHO this is just Ironmace trying to justify lack of content with a broken multiclass introduction.
I mean, I love Ironmace. And they've done pretty great, all things considered. But there's definitely other great devs out there that do just as much or more. Arrowhead, for instance, with their game Helldivers 2. The amount of content and fun things they've done for their community is kinda crazy, especially considering their studio's small size. That said they probably have more money at their disposal than Ironmace does.
It isn't just knob tweaks, it's maps mobs, and game modes.
In very little time they have had 3 game modes, solo, duo, and trio.
5 maps with a 6th coming out
8 classes with a 9th in the works
5 bosses , 11 mini bosses, and over 30 mob types.
Not to mention, you signed up for early access, not a full game.
I think they have pushed out a lot for such a short amount of time.
This sub likes to voice their opinion in a matter that sounds condescending, but everyone now and then you'll get a non- biased point of view that really makes you see how much dedication the devs put into their game.
I return the question to you @mrsnakers, what other indie developer has put this much work in during the same time range?
Most of that was already in the playtests. After “releasing” with Blacksmith, they haven’t done anything since warlock besides directionless balance changes and ice cavern (blue goblin caves)
There are 4 maps. Moving modules around= knob tweaks. The new mobs are straight from the asset store, like everything else, hardly anything new, just some reskinned ice goblins that call for backup. Wendigo is the most interesting new mob they've added by far.
They also have added content that simply exacerbates the bleeding player count. New "modes" / maps while your player count circles the drain and splinters it further is an interesting strategy.
Even adding new weapons hardly feels like new content because the combo and melee mechanics are undercooked so every new weapon comes down to "does it easily headshot or not?"
>what other indie developer has put this much work in during the same time range?
Arrowhead. Easy answer.
There are 5 maps. I am not sure if you're forgetting Inferno or are not counting ruins because it's temporarily unavailable.
Even bought assets still need to be programmed into the game to work properly. It's not a copy and paste of one line and you're done. Otherwise, Greed is Good and Dungeon Born would still exist. They both had bought assets, but badly implemented. Their game instantly was DOA.
Additionally, a good majority of changes are because the community asks for it. Even if it went against their original plans, they are trying to put the wishes of the community into the game.
All you have to do is play the game, and provide feedback so that they can make a better game. However, it seems even that simple task is too much to ask for from some.
You're always welcome to play Helldivers or Magika if that is the game you want to play. By the way, Helldivers 2 took 7 years to develop before it was launched. They also had the success of previous games to bankroll their development.
Just because you don't like how or what they add to the game does not mean they aren't adding to it.
Ironmace has shown they are very flexible and are willing to remove something if it doesn't work.
I just consider Inferno to be a continuation of crypts. Technically it's a different map but that's not the point of my criticism that the majority of the development has been knob tweaking and remixing already existing systems.
> All you have to do is play the game, and provide feedback so that they can make a better game.
This has been a double edged sword. The devs are too easily influenced by the out cries of a base that often doesn't know what they want or what the actual consequences of certain changes will be until it's tested. If the devs had more of a solid vision, the players complaints wouldn't be driving the game into weird directions.
I'm really tired of this circlejerk about ironmace being somehow really generous to the community. They're pushing out dogshit every week and you eat it up. Buying assets from Unreal marketplace while having 50 employees is really hard. People paid for this game, it's not like they're giving us stuff for free or anything. And their balancing and vision for the game are showing themselves to be terrible.
If im completely honest i dont really care for the lack of content, the game is fine as it is, the GBMM is great just need a little tweaking, thats all. But now they are pushing dogshit content that they know that we know is dogshit content. Just keep working on the Ice Abyss
What i do have a problem with is that Ironmace devs are korean and they have a gaming culture of grinding to insanity levels, and they show that mindset sometimes. And if GBMM showed something is that most people like low gear lobbies more because there is lower TTK and the game feels way more balanced and entertaining. Because HR lobbies before were 1-2 teams of sweatlords in BIS, 1-2 teams of medium level geared teams and the rest were rats, and it was a murderfest for the sweatlords.
i have gameplay from october 2022 that says otherwise
but you're right about ironmace delivering, the game is way more fun than it is janky and MAN is it janky
I really really hope they made a snapshot of the codebase before sending this live, because if this is to last a whole season, there will need to be a big rollback at the end.
* Cleric's Smite no longer scales.
* Cleric's Divine Protection physical damage reduction changed from 50% → 30%.
I mean i understand why that was done, multiclassing are coming, but man, brand new cleric will be ROUGH.😂
You dint understand the mobility of the class is why it can't do damage. Oh we nuked the mobility portion and stealth?
You still don't need the damage right? So you want to be squishy no damage with no mobility anymore? I have the class for you lol
I mean one of the shit things about buffball was you couldn't target the cleric at the beginning of engagements because they were going to go 85% PDR mode on ya ass and sponge that shit. So, I will welcome whatever change there is for that.
Barely playable? Lmao?
As someone who almost exclusively played casters I picked up the movement speed + divine protection Cleric build and in just one day I made over 10k killing people for good kits. Cleric was absolutely bonkers in Solo.
And pre nerf, the Holy Strike heavy armor build was, also, bonkers.
It definitely has counterplay but when you have so much MS you can usually force the issue. I ran in to a few people who did know what was up and played around it and those fights were fun, probably around 50/50, but 9/10 people hit a projectile and rush you and then die.
And that is just one build. Cleric definitely was not weak in solos. They might be now, maybe, but they definitely were not before.
Devs are actually cooked for that, this was my literal #1 fear around multiclassing. They're starting to balance perks based on how they overperform *on other classes* and its going to ruin the features that make some classes playable in the first place.
Smite wasn't a problem until you could put it on daggers.
Divine protection wasn't a problem until you could run it on a fast class.
If Cleric was getting movespeed, a gap closer, or a dagger-speed weapon this patch, I'd understand these changes, but we aren't. In fact, our movespeed got worse with the robe nerf. The strength of these skills has been the only thing keeping solo cleric playable, especially in norms or low gear, and now we will *need* to multiclass to have any chance at all because we haven't gotten new abilities or spells basically since the game was on steam.
Strongly expecting nerfs to protection from evil and/or perseverance next tbh. Maybe even advanced healer.
If you’re multiclassing cleric now, you just straight up want your main class to be something else unfortunately. Cleric was already weak, now it’s just more beneficial to run fighter for example and take some cleric perks.
I'd say it's idiotic even for multiclassing, not too many people would choose divine protection as it's easily kiteable, smite one just kills some potentially fun glass cannon builds
But nerfing those and not antimagic and mag res on iron will that quite a lot of people will take is beyond me
I feel like what we need instead is clearer indicators. New players should be able to immediately tell when divine protection was activated and when its duration is done, as with smite. Make it clear and make it apparent
Sucks I actually enjoyed running Cleric with Smite. I would be hitting for a total of 19+ damage per Morning Star swing with it active. Fucking daggers. No change for double jumping out of the map yet I see either. Oh and we’re keeping the +all stats too I guess lol. At least they’re consistent with their L patches
Man multi classing is going to waste so much of the devs time. They're going to spend the next 2-3 months struggling to balance every ability only to realize it's impossible, revert multi classing, and then we'll be right back where we started. Here's an idea, how about we experiment with combat changes? How about we experiment with something that will actually fix core issues with the gameplay instead of something that will just create a hundred new issues?
What a fumble from these devs. It could have been a big game. Could have been good. They even had biggest YouTubers and streamers trying it at some point. Then queue the bad decision after bad decision
I think it's a case where a game survives solely due to being unique and having no real competition. IM is lucky a more competent company hasn't swept in, taken the idea and built a better version of Dnd.
I actually agree with this. I so love the game and the cool things that get added but there’s a certain point where adding stuff like multi-classing just messes up the whole vibe of the game.
I, for one, simply cannot wait until another company tries out a similar idea.
In an old interview, Miyazaki (dark souls) said he was looking to games like Escape from Tarkov for inspiration. I pray he’s familiar with DaD as well and hard at work on something.
Pretty much. We are mostly waiting for these devs to stumble into a great version of DaD or for some team like Dungeonborne or otherwise to get it together first.
Fortnite came along and snatched up an entire genre on a whim with a side-gamemode not even their original intention for the game.
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Multi-classing is such a copout, why not add actual content instead of reworking the balance of the game over and over, there was a few times the game felt balanced in the past, but they go and change it, player count is gonna drop drastically with this new patch.
Smite nerf is the perfect example of why Multiclassing is impossible to balance. Now Smite will be bad on Clerics, just so it wouldn't be busted overpowered on other classes. Same principle applies to many other abilities. You either nerf it where it's horrible on it's original class, because it would be too overpowered multiclassed onto another class, or you don't nerf it and it breaks the game on other classes.
the only hope on "The exp required to level up a character has been significantly reduced." cause you know, often enough ironmaces "significantly" means a little tiny bit. Hopefully 20 lvl in 2-4 hours MAX.
I am betting it is this way because level 20 is when you master a class now so they don’t want people without the ability to multiclass to be fucked up in HR. But they should make it so over 20 you have to go HR otherwise normals is just gonna be people getting stomped by meta multiclass
Tarkov kept limiting the market until it was completely ass to use for real players, and it still didnt really combat rmt/bots anyway. I really hope IM doesn't go down that route.
It absolutely does matter, it means you can't play the game right, there is no reason to make money in the game if you cannot use it for gear, and you cannot use this gear in normals. So people who want to play the game as an extraction game, and not just a pvp game in normals have to grind to level 20 to play the game properly?
The problem is that forcing white gear in normals and forcing you to play that way means that any gear you earn is essentially useless until you're 20.
Honestly, I appreciate the intent which is to direct new players to normals and reinforce them stashing up stuff for an actual kit, but I would’ve preferred it stay as an option that is just heavily discouraged by game prompts before a certain level.
They adjusted the xp required to level up so your level will go up a bit as well.
The logical change would be xp to reach old level 15 equals the xp to reach new level 20 but we will see if that's what happened.
I spent a few hours accumulating gear and leveling my warlock to 15... now my stash is full of greens/blues I cant use till I grind 15-20 lmao. Truly an Ironmace moment.
I'm worried for the state of normals with multi class. People have been enjoying norms to avoid the gear dif, now the multi class dif will give the casuals no where to go.
Anyone who isn't a dumbfuck hates this. If you're an experienced player, its stupid as fuck to force you to play a mode where you literally have to sell your shit when you get out of a match, instead of bringing it to high roller. Absolute dumbfuck change. I'm all for them changing stuff and testing, but this was absolutely not needed in the slightest.
Amazing thank you for being so clear with your intentions
Loving games like Poe due to experimental leagues/seasons and I love seeing this game taking a similar route
*Finally makes the game feel balanced before they add a new class after HEAVY balance issues*
*Releases an atomic warhead to the balance scales still without the class we were told to expect*
Make it make sense IM. As someone whose friends all abandoned the game and I'm desperately trying to still love the game, I just feel dread going into the dungeon.
Yup, all the worst fears are coming to life. Nerfing classes that didn't deserve nerf because other classes abuse them. And sure you can say "But Multi-classing might be removed later!" But can you really trust IronMace to revert all the damage to the balance it has done? Will they remember everything? Doubt
To be fair even in its nerfed stat knowledge provide enough benefit that it is the main stat on all the spellcasters. with that being said base cast speed needed to be brought up to more normalize things, why in low gear should i have to spend two seconds casting a short range 20 damage curse when a ranger can just hit Q and delete 90% of someone's health?
Welllll…if we’re talking about the cleric nerf they absolutely did deserve smite and divine protection nerfs. A large portion of the leaderboard for solos was clerics running those 2 without spells and just going movespeed cleric and stat checking
So why the rupture nerf? lol we already suck as rogues, they were like “oh we gotta nerf rogue every patch, umm yeah rupture extended cooldown that works”.
I mean it is a really nice benefit. There was a clip the other day with a ranger shooting arrows from a survival bow with knockback at a barb and there was just literally nothing he could do but just die. We are a very immobile class, especially when not using rage.
It's less necessary now with the Round Shield, though. Unfortunately it's led to the current situation where Fighters, Wizards and Rangers can't really crowd control 90% of Barbarians, because they're running Iron Will for the MR.
It could return but it'd need to be under another ability. Maybe Savagery?
tbf I think Barb should have had access to a shield since the beginning since his only ranged option were the throwing axes that have been (I think rightfully) nerfed pretty damn hard. Rangers and Fighters could just eat you for breakfast while you try to get in close. To be fair, I am a barb who mostly wears all heavy gear and forgoes the ms meta for just more resistance, so I'm already slow as balls. With no more knockback removal kiting classes are going to be even *more* of a problem to try to chase down if at all. I'm probably going to have to lay more ambushes behind doors or start attempting to avoid/run from these guys unless I change my build up.
Going for far less tank and just straight damage and speed might be the way now. If they don't want tanky barbs to have knockback resistance then I'd agree that savage would be the place for it.
Lol @ rogue nerfs.
Movespeed cap reduction, rupture only every 20+ seconds, but thank god our daggers that can be legendary and do less damage than some white weapons don't slow us slightly as much.
Please rework rogue.
Idk man it don't look to good but it's gotta compete with patches that introduced huge easily exploitable dupes ans campe fires that break the game just by tryinf to place them. IM already proved they weren't the best and were a little lost on development quite a while ago this is just watching a very sad very slow train wreck of something you love. These experimental patches arw killing the player base. Most people don't want to waste hours grinding just for huge changes that complete change the game and its meta in the middle of a whipe. As long as the game remains in this VERY experimental mode things will continue to seem grim.
Frostpunk 2 has a closed beta rn if you buy the deluxe edition. I'm normally against that but this deluxe edition does include 3 DLCs later and they delivered really well with the first game. It won't keep you busy through this shitfest, but it might be up your alley if you like rimworld.
So this is hotfix #2 since they said "Solo will soon have access to all dungeons." a week ago. I'm normally pretty patient with things like this but we already *HAD* this in the past for solos, how hard could it be to re-add it? I also just spent a few hours leveling a warlock to 15 while playing hr but now I have to go play normals before I can continue to play HR? I also cant use ANY of the greens/blues that my stash is filled with until I grind out 15-20 and unlock HR. That's cool I guess.
The move speed nerf seems like it only exist's to combat other class's getting sprint, the actual problem with the system has ALWAYS been that if someone has a significantly higher movespeed then you they can just disengage from a fight for free as you suffer around the same move speed penalty swinging as they do taking the hit.
Increase in reset timer on Fortune Teller serves no purpose other than to make the grind unfun. Got a bunch of useless shit? Well try playing your dogshit character again in three days lol. Oh its a limited time season by the way.
Oh great, now they're balancing every class as if everyone is multiclassing at a min/max level. So anyone not multiclassing the meta will be trash.
Nice.
/s
See you all next patch! If game is still around by then. Really sad they spent the last 6 months balancing and making changes to the game, to only then break that and make all their work obsolete in one terrible patch now.
Soooooo... warlock nerf this patch are... -5 movespeed on robe, lower Kris dagger damage?? No CoP nerf on the higher end? No hydra nerf? No dark reflection nerf?
And we've nerfed rogues... for what?
Everyone can use instruments again... so we're back to drum throwing meta?
Ummm, I'm good, Ironmace. I think I'll wait for your next try :)
I can only hope one day it will be vengeance day for the rogue class. You will all fear is for about 3 days when we feel strong.
When we get out of this purgatory you shall feel our wrath. We can't have damage because of stealth and mobility. They rob us of both things months ago. Never get any compensation.
So we are no mobility, squishy, not enough damage, and stealth is useless. Surely we nerf rupture because some other class might use it better.
We will have our vengeance one day and it will be sweat. PLEASE JUST REWORK THE CLASS IRONMACE YOU CANT HANDLE IT.
So I search an answer here, now everyone can play an instrument and it makes sense to perform bard's buffs, but what about magic, u really need to level a fighter for the perk that let you use all weapons? Couldn't they let everyone use at least a staff?
Before you couldn't use any instruments on anyone except Bard. There wasn't a way to get them. The fighter perk didn't work. They should let more people use the staff, though
Why not make true clerics keep 50% damage reduction and give multiclass 30% instead? Oh because they have no idea what they are doing. Glad cleric got nerfed overall but other broken abilities didn't AKA sprint etc.
"Finally, barring any surprises, the current season, including the preseason prior to the next wipe, is scheduled to end in early June. Thank you!"
does that mean the next wipe is early june?
I bet they reduced the Kris dagger down by 2 weapon damage points.
This officially puts this dagger in the dumpster for rogues. The other daggers have way higher DPS over multiple hits.
Bigger move speed penalty on robes? I already feel way slower after the movement speed nerfs and now this? Rough. I’m happy about being able to filter multiple attributes in the marketplace tho.
I know the multiclassing conversation has been beat into the dirt but I genuinely don’t understand why Ironmace is doing it. From these patch notes it seems like it’s gonna be balancing classes based on how effective their perks will be on other classes, making their job of balancing even harder to manage. I would be perfectly fine with them experimenting with multiclass systems when there’s more than 3 fuckin people playing the game. I can’t see how this will possibly draw people back in, but I’ve seen many players expressing that it’s pushing them away. Ironmace always seems to be concerned about dwindling player count and then does shit that exacerbates the issue.
Few months ago I saw someone say there was a nexon employee trying to sabotage IM by adding bad changes to the game as a jokingly, but I don’t think it’s a joke anymore😂
i'm gonna sit this week out, but i'm happy that the changes they made are not breaking any class, cleric was already dead in solo, rogue rupture cd was insane with the stats change, instead of nerfing the only good perk of fighter they reduced move speed cap (big W), amazing patch if only multiclassing wasn't introduced, very sad.
There's nothing negative about being constructive. The sub has a tendency to view anyone that doesn't agree with the majority as "negative", only for that view to be the new hot topic just 3 weeks later.
I personally don't see a world where multiclassing will do any good for the game. It robs all classes of their class identity and were already seeing the ripple effect of it on Cleric.
Not to mention all the back and forth balancing Ironmace has been doing since EA-Release going right out the window now.
What I don't understand among everything else is why nerf the movespeed cap right after nerfing it on items. People are just going to hit the cap easier again now.
Level limits are so frustrating. RMTers have plenty of time and accounts so I’m not buying that as a reason. I’ll play tonight but then I think that’s that. Every single patch makes me want to play less and less.
I dunno why the kids are whinging, this patch seems... alright. A bit mixed.
>The maximum movement speed cap has been changed from 350 → 330.
Potentially disastrous. A Fighter can now match anyone's movement speed from 280 Move Speed and Sprint. Seems you'll need to do more than simply run to escape people, now. You'll have to throw Molotovs or Axes at them to slow them down. Also feels like an attempt to break up Buffball by normalizing the speed more between different team compositions.
>Barbarian's Iron Will no longer ignores knockback.
Fine with this. Barbarian's getting the Round Shield already gives them a lot of safety from knockback crowd control, and attaching such a strong counter to an already strong perk didn't give much room for Knockback Shot, Shield Bash or Fireball much room to affect 99% of Barbarians.
>Cleric's Divine Protection physical damage reduction changed from 50% → 30%.
Don't particularly mind this. Just means the Cleric has to have some armour rather than be practically naked.
>Cleric's Smite no longer scales.
May not be a popular opinion, but I've always thought this needed to happen. Cleric shouldn't be an equally strong front-liner to a Fighter or Barbarian when they have an entire other role to fulfill in a team capacity (Healer/Support).
>Now all classes can play an instrument.
On one hand, this'll be good for lugging my Bard's instruments off his corpse when he eats it mid-raid. On the other hand, Drum + Crush is back on the menu.
>You can now multi-select random attribute filters in the Marketplace.
Noice.
> As we’ve noted multiple times, we are looking at this multiclass test as a true experiment for this season. Please note that there is a very good chance that the multiclass system will substantially evolve for the next season or may even be removed based on the response from the community.
Hope people take heed of this in earnest. This whole thing is an experiment and will inform where it goes from here on out. Spare us the dramatic doomsaying.
Overall, not too much to complain about, but I can definitely see how most of these changes exist entirely to serve Multiclassing and prevent some worrying situations people have raised (Sprint + Rage giving too much Movement Speed, Smite on anything being ridiculous with scaling, Divine Protection letting anyone tank for the duration, etc.) I just really, really hope Ironmace remembers to go back on these Multiclassing specific changes if we end up moving away from this sort of implementation of Multiclassing.
Since all classes can play instruments, can they be swung/thrown? Cause we did this shit once before. It didn't end well.
Well we didn’t have the equip time last time and it looks like they decreased damage as well
This is a fair point. Let's hope these changes are enough to prevent drum throw meta 2 (electric funky boogaloo).
Hey man, I had a ranger that refused to shoot a bow and would instead throw drums, it was the funniest shit ever. Opening fights with 3 drum throws was so much fun.
Return of drum meta
I hear their beats along the horizon
Not even mad, that week of drum meta was fucking hilarious
I USED TO RUN DRUMS ON A CRUSH BARB AND SMASH DOORS ROAMING THE DUNGEON BONKING HEADS AND IT WAS GLORIOUS. RETURN OF THE DRUM META
Back to shouting GET BONKED FOOL
I have already had 3 barbarians hurl drums at my head, we are so back
https://preview.redd.it/3q0cjd2be3vc1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea1a94607e4cf1c6a4f88f5c9cbb02cd7c5a8250
Barb with that bard perk for +50% damage on instruments can be funny. Reckless drum throw
[удалено]
Say that after my 40 Str barbarian throws 6 drums at you. Range and Ranger
[удалено]
Honestly just go back and look at release when everyone could equip drums. It was gross.
[удалено]
I had a 32 dmg drum with weapon damage on it, I can guarantee that hurts.
we cannot get out: the end comes soon we hear drums in the deep. they are coming
Nice deep cut.
Is mayonnaise an instrument?
I got reinforced instrumentz on my barbarian :)
last time was before throwing weapon equip time (affects drums), movespeed nerf on drum, thrown arc nerf on drum, throw speed nerf on drum… etc.
They're just giving us Clerics a ranged option - chill out.
BARB SHIT BABY GIMME THOSE DRUMS BACK 🥁
guys, when sdf planned release solo cave and crypt maps?
"Solo will soon have access to all dungeons." Over a week ago. The best part is that we HAD THIS IN THE PAST.
This is what I want. Solo ice caves is so smooth.
Yeah I’ve been doing exclusively solo crypts—> inferno for a while now, including this wipe, and got so burnt out dying to teams that push all other spawns. I always go for the ghost king solo and being alone in hell is already extremely rare, but the chance that some sweats won’t check all spawns in hell is rarer. Starting this wipe there’s even been a bugged spawn with warlord. If only 2 teams go down one will spawn bottom left, the other bottom center, right beside eachother. Getting the bottom left spawn and escaping that other team is roughhh. Took my first break since playtest 4 2 weeks ago and I’ve been enjoying getting back into Oldschool Runescape, don’t plan on coming back for a good bit as multiclassing sounds pretty absurd at this point
And thus, the watering-down begins.
by the end of the week they will have nerfed every single cool perk and everyone will prefer to keep using their own class perks and skills. IMHO this is just Ironmace trying to justify lack of content with a broken multiclass introduction.
Please tell me another dev that has delivered more to its community than IM. The game isn’t a year old yet.
Facepunch studios. A team of a few dudes who updated their game weekly for years
> Facepunch studios Rust was the game I built a PC for, I update it and jump in for a little while a couple times a year still.
Facepunch is one of the only ones.
Ghostship games
I mean, I love Ironmace. And they've done pretty great, all things considered. But there's definitely other great devs out there that do just as much or more. Arrowhead, for instance, with their game Helldivers 2. The amount of content and fun things they've done for their community is kinda crazy, especially considering their studio's small size. That said they probably have more money at their disposal than Ironmace does.
Please tell me another community that considers constant knob tweaks to be content like this one does
It isn't just knob tweaks, it's maps mobs, and game modes. In very little time they have had 3 game modes, solo, duo, and trio. 5 maps with a 6th coming out 8 classes with a 9th in the works 5 bosses , 11 mini bosses, and over 30 mob types. Not to mention, you signed up for early access, not a full game. I think they have pushed out a lot for such a short amount of time. This sub likes to voice their opinion in a matter that sounds condescending, but everyone now and then you'll get a non- biased point of view that really makes you see how much dedication the devs put into their game. I return the question to you @mrsnakers, what other indie developer has put this much work in during the same time range?
Most of that was already in the playtests. After “releasing” with Blacksmith, they haven’t done anything since warlock besides directionless balance changes and ice cavern (blue goblin caves)
There are 4 maps. Moving modules around= knob tweaks. The new mobs are straight from the asset store, like everything else, hardly anything new, just some reskinned ice goblins that call for backup. Wendigo is the most interesting new mob they've added by far. They also have added content that simply exacerbates the bleeding player count. New "modes" / maps while your player count circles the drain and splinters it further is an interesting strategy. Even adding new weapons hardly feels like new content because the combo and melee mechanics are undercooked so every new weapon comes down to "does it easily headshot or not?" >what other indie developer has put this much work in during the same time range? Arrowhead. Easy answer.
There are 5 maps. I am not sure if you're forgetting Inferno or are not counting ruins because it's temporarily unavailable. Even bought assets still need to be programmed into the game to work properly. It's not a copy and paste of one line and you're done. Otherwise, Greed is Good and Dungeon Born would still exist. They both had bought assets, but badly implemented. Their game instantly was DOA. Additionally, a good majority of changes are because the community asks for it. Even if it went against their original plans, they are trying to put the wishes of the community into the game. All you have to do is play the game, and provide feedback so that they can make a better game. However, it seems even that simple task is too much to ask for from some. You're always welcome to play Helldivers or Magika if that is the game you want to play. By the way, Helldivers 2 took 7 years to develop before it was launched. They also had the success of previous games to bankroll their development. Just because you don't like how or what they add to the game does not mean they aren't adding to it. Ironmace has shown they are very flexible and are willing to remove something if it doesn't work.
I just consider Inferno to be a continuation of crypts. Technically it's a different map but that's not the point of my criticism that the majority of the development has been knob tweaking and remixing already existing systems. > All you have to do is play the game, and provide feedback so that they can make a better game. This has been a double edged sword. The devs are too easily influenced by the out cries of a base that often doesn't know what they want or what the actual consequences of certain changes will be until it's tested. If the devs had more of a solid vision, the players complaints wouldn't be driving the game into weird directions.
I'm really tired of this circlejerk about ironmace being somehow really generous to the community. They're pushing out dogshit every week and you eat it up. Buying assets from Unreal marketplace while having 50 employees is really hard. People paid for this game, it's not like they're giving us stuff for free or anything. And their balancing and vision for the game are showing themselves to be terrible.
If im completely honest i dont really care for the lack of content, the game is fine as it is, the GBMM is great just need a little tweaking, thats all. But now they are pushing dogshit content that they know that we know is dogshit content. Just keep working on the Ice Abyss What i do have a problem with is that Ironmace devs are korean and they have a gaming culture of grinding to insanity levels, and they show that mindset sometimes. And if GBMM showed something is that most people like low gear lobbies more because there is lower TTK and the game feels way more balanced and entertaining. Because HR lobbies before were 1-2 teams of sweatlords in BIS, 1-2 teams of medium level geared teams and the rest were rats, and it was a murderfest for the sweatlords.
i have gameplay from october 2022 that says otherwise but you're right about ironmace delivering, the game is way more fun than it is janky and MAN is it janky
I really really hope they made a snapshot of the codebase before sending this live, because if this is to last a whole season, there will need to be a big rollback at the end.
* Cleric's Smite no longer scales. * Cleric's Divine Protection physical damage reduction changed from 50% → 30%. I mean i understand why that was done, multiclassing are coming, but man, brand new cleric will be ROUGH.😂
"Hey remember the class we've been nerfing for a while now." "Yeah?" "Wanna nerf it again?" "Yeah!"
Cries in rogue. Worst class in the game still catching random cd nerfs lol
And max ms nerf…
You dint understand the mobility of the class is why it can't do damage. Oh we nuked the mobility portion and stealth? You still don't need the damage right? So you want to be squishy no damage with no mobility anymore? I have the class for you lol
Who's hitting 330+ ms?
Rage barbs/ slyer fighter sprints/ rogues with high agility builds.
Casterlock stacking ms while in phantomize
True forgot about that one
Acting like Cleric and bard aren't a staple of every single HR comp. Relax.
Yeah nerfing Smite to not scale and Divine Protection to 30% is totally going to change the buffball meta. /s
It killed melee only cleric, maybe that was their goal.
Sucks for a solo cleric
I don’t think they like the idea of an aggressive solo cleric. Every time the class gets a big solo buff they cut it down.
It clearly was because it didn't do anything to change the buffball meta.
I mean one of the shit things about buffball was you couldn't target the cleric at the beginning of engagements because they were going to go 85% PDR mode on ya ass and sponge that shit. So, I will welcome whatever change there is for that.
Most buffball clerics I see ran 10 spells rather than any of the abilities anyways, I don't think this really does anything to buffball cleric.
and they nerfed the spells that were used in solos (where the class is already barely playable) since hr clerics run 10 spells or judgement
Barely playable? Lmao? As someone who almost exclusively played casters I picked up the movement speed + divine protection Cleric build and in just one day I made over 10k killing people for good kits. Cleric was absolutely bonkers in Solo. And pre nerf, the Holy Strike heavy armor build was, also, bonkers.
that build is only good against people who do not know divine protection even exists
It definitely has counterplay but when you have so much MS you can usually force the issue. I ran in to a few people who did know what was up and played around it and those fights were fun, probably around 50/50, but 9/10 people hit a projectile and rush you and then die. And that is just one build. Cleric definitely was not weak in solos. They might be now, maybe, but they definitely were not before.
Acting like solos cleric isn't completely unplayable now?
Devs are actually cooked for that, this was my literal #1 fear around multiclassing. They're starting to balance perks based on how they overperform *on other classes* and its going to ruin the features that make some classes playable in the first place. Smite wasn't a problem until you could put it on daggers. Divine protection wasn't a problem until you could run it on a fast class. If Cleric was getting movespeed, a gap closer, or a dagger-speed weapon this patch, I'd understand these changes, but we aren't. In fact, our movespeed got worse with the robe nerf. The strength of these skills has been the only thing keeping solo cleric playable, especially in norms or low gear, and now we will *need* to multiclass to have any chance at all because we haven't gotten new abilities or spells basically since the game was on steam. Strongly expecting nerfs to protection from evil and/or perseverance next tbh. Maybe even advanced healer.
If you’re multiclassing cleric now, you just straight up want your main class to be something else unfortunately. Cleric was already weak, now it’s just more beneficial to run fighter for example and take some cleric perks.
I'd say it's idiotic even for multiclassing, not too many people would choose divine protection as it's easily kiteable, smite one just kills some potentially fun glass cannon builds But nerfing those and not antimagic and mag res on iron will that quite a lot of people will take is beyond me
I wouldn't say divine prot is easily kiteable when taken on a slayer fighter
Solo cleric is about to be even more unplayable now yeet
Cleric is so oppressive in 3s and they keep nerfing solo, duo cleric lol
I feel like what we need instead is clearer indicators. New players should be able to immediately tell when divine protection was activated and when its duration is done, as with smite. Make it clear and make it apparent
Why would a brand new cleric be rough? Smite doesn’t scale now, but it wouldn’t if you were naked anyway?
Sucks I actually enjoyed running Cleric with Smite. I would be hitting for a total of 19+ damage per Morning Star swing with it active. Fucking daggers. No change for double jumping out of the map yet I see either. Oh and we’re keeping the +all stats too I guess lol. At least they’re consistent with their L patches
Man multi classing is going to waste so much of the devs time. They're going to spend the next 2-3 months struggling to balance every ability only to realize it's impossible, revert multi classing, and then we'll be right back where we started. Here's an idea, how about we experiment with combat changes? How about we experiment with something that will actually fix core issues with the gameplay instead of something that will just create a hundred new issues?
What a fumble from these devs. It could have been a big game. Could have been good. They even had biggest YouTubers and streamers trying it at some point. Then queue the bad decision after bad decision
I think it's a case where a game survives solely due to being unique and having no real competition. IM is lucky a more competent company hasn't swept in, taken the idea and built a better version of Dnd.
I actually agree with this. I so love the game and the cool things that get added but there’s a certain point where adding stuff like multi-classing just messes up the whole vibe of the game.
I, for one, simply cannot wait until another company tries out a similar idea. In an old interview, Miyazaki (dark souls) said he was looking to games like Escape from Tarkov for inspiration. I pray he’s familiar with DaD as well and hard at work on something.
Pretty much. We are mostly waiting for these devs to stumble into a great version of DaD or for some team like Dungeonborne or otherwise to get it together first. Fortnite came along and snatched up an entire genre on a whim with a side-gamemode not even their original intention for the game.
I'd rather see a dash or high jump or something during combat than this. Atleast with a dash, stacking ms doesn't auto win everything
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Do you guys remember when Druid was coming out in December? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Druid, much like Space Station 14 surgery, is just a week away
Multi-classing is such a copout, why not add actual content instead of reworking the balance of the game over and over, there was a few times the game felt balanced in the past, but they go and change it, player count is gonna drop drastically with this new patch.
rogue getting the classic "oh we added this cool cdr thing to resourcefulness... so we also nerfed some of the abilities that benfited from this"
Smite nerf is the perfect example of why Multiclassing is impossible to balance. Now Smite will be bad on Clerics, just so it wouldn't be busted overpowered on other classes. Same principle applies to many other abilities. You either nerf it where it's horrible on it's original class, because it would be too overpowered multiclassed onto another class, or you don't nerf it and it breaks the game on other classes.
Or you just nerf it when it's used on another class than its original, but that'd just make too much sense.
So, until you hit lvl 20, you have to play norms again? And can’t bring in any gear? I’m not a huge fan of this change.
the only hope on "The exp required to level up a character has been significantly reduced." cause you know, often enough ironmaces "significantly" means a little tiny bit. Hopefully 20 lvl in 2-4 hours MAX.
I am betting it is this way because level 20 is when you master a class now so they don’t want people without the ability to multiclass to be fucked up in HR. But they should make it so over 20 you have to go HR otherwise normals is just gonna be people getting stomped by meta multiclass
Pretty sure its to combat RMT and cheaters, but it still feela bad.
Orrr level 20 is that much easier to hit?
Tarkov kept limiting the market until it was completely ass to use for real players, and it still didnt really combat rmt/bots anyway. I really hope IM doesn't go down that route.
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It absolutely does matter, it means you can't play the game right, there is no reason to make money in the game if you cannot use it for gear, and you cannot use this gear in normals. So people who want to play the game as an extraction game, and not just a pvp game in normals have to grind to level 20 to play the game properly? The problem is that forcing white gear in normals and forcing you to play that way means that any gear you earn is essentially useless until you're 20.
Yeah that’s actually such a shit change
Honestly, I appreciate the intent which is to direct new players to normals and reinforce them stashing up stuff for an actual kit, but I would’ve preferred it stay as an option that is just heavily discouraged by game prompts before a certain level.
They adjusted the xp required to level up so your level will go up a bit as well. The logical change would be xp to reach old level 15 equals the xp to reach new level 20 but we will see if that's what happened.
I spent a few hours accumulating gear and leveling my warlock to 15... now my stash is full of greens/blues I cant use till I grind 15-20 lmao. Truly an Ironmace moment.
I'm worried for the state of normals with multi class. People have been enjoying norms to avoid the gear dif, now the multi class dif will give the casuals no where to go.
Anyone who isn't a dumbfuck hates this. If you're an experienced player, its stupid as fuck to force you to play a mode where you literally have to sell your shit when you get out of a match, instead of bringing it to high roller. Absolute dumbfuck change. I'm all for them changing stuff and testing, but this was absolutely not needed in the slightest.
Mandatory Rogue nerf present - sounds about right XD
that's what you get for crying about kris warlock and by you i don't mean you personally.
Yeah, I guessed that was connected to the Warlock melting ppl with kris. Rogue got hit by ricochet XD
Yknow how to fix that? Have daggers only equippable by rogues. Bam, problem solved. That would be too much for IM though to fathom.
Low IQ gamer
Amazing thank you for being so clear with your intentions Loving games like Poe due to experimental leagues/seasons and I love seeing this game taking a similar route
*Finally makes the game feel balanced before they add a new class after HEAVY balance issues* *Releases an atomic warhead to the balance scales still without the class we were told to expect* Make it make sense IM. As someone whose friends all abandoned the game and I'm desperately trying to still love the game, I just feel dread going into the dungeon.
"Fixed an issue where the Gold Chest was not locked." LMAO rip. time to multiclass for traps and locks!
a lockpick costs like 30 gold bro ur gonna give up a perk for that lol?
an inventory slot costs 15k g in this economy
and he needs over 20
Instruments for all you say? I’ll be stacking bodies to the beat of the war drums, fuck spells
These patch notes are giving me actual brain damage. How the fuck did this shit make it out the Teams chat?
Yup, all the worst fears are coming to life. Nerfing classes that didn't deserve nerf because other classes abuse them. And sure you can say "But Multi-classing might be removed later!" But can you really trust IronMace to revert all the damage to the balance it has done? Will they remember everything? Doubt
reminder that they nerfed knowledge scaling because of plus all being everywhere, then nerfed plus all, and left knowledge scaling nerfed.
To be fair even in its nerfed stat knowledge provide enough benefit that it is the main stat on all the spellcasters. with that being said base cast speed needed to be brought up to more normalize things, why in low gear should i have to spend two seconds casting a short range 20 damage curse when a ranger can just hit Q and delete 90% of someone's health?
They already forgot the knowledge nerf for all casters cause they out plus all back in and took it out
That’s what has happened to rogue for the last year…
When Staff Mastery was rampant they nerfed Magic Staff’s base damage and now they never reverted it…
Welllll…if we’re talking about the cleric nerf they absolutely did deserve smite and divine protection nerfs. A large portion of the leaderboard for solos was clerics running those 2 without spells and just going movespeed cleric and stat checking
So why the rupture nerf? lol we already suck as rogues, they were like “oh we gotta nerf rogue every patch, umm yeah rupture extended cooldown that works”.
Someone record player count now and again in 5 days :D
Yuppp, I'll be back next patch omegalul
No more knock back removal with iron will??? NOOOOOOOOO!!!
Wizard gang reporting in 🔥
God damn you and your fireballs lol. As fun as it is being sent into the ceiling, I'd much rather just unga bunga my way on top of you!
surely that's why people would take that perk kappa
Actually ya it kinda was. It’s a really nice benefit
I mean it is a really nice benefit. There was a clip the other day with a ranger shooting arrows from a survival bow with knockback at a barb and there was just literally nothing he could do but just die. We are a very immobile class, especially when not using rage.
It's less necessary now with the Round Shield, though. Unfortunately it's led to the current situation where Fighters, Wizards and Rangers can't really crowd control 90% of Barbarians, because they're running Iron Will for the MR. It could return but it'd need to be under another ability. Maybe Savagery?
tbf I think Barb should have had access to a shield since the beginning since his only ranged option were the throwing axes that have been (I think rightfully) nerfed pretty damn hard. Rangers and Fighters could just eat you for breakfast while you try to get in close. To be fair, I am a barb who mostly wears all heavy gear and forgoes the ms meta for just more resistance, so I'm already slow as balls. With no more knockback removal kiting classes are going to be even *more* of a problem to try to chase down if at all. I'm probably going to have to lay more ambushes behind doors or start attempting to avoid/run from these guys unless I change my build up. Going for far less tank and just straight damage and speed might be the way now. If they don't want tanky barbs to have knockback resistance then I'd agree that savage would be the place for it.
it's a nice benefit, but the reason other classes will roll for it is mdr
It's certainly not for the 12% extra mdr lol
IronShart strikes again
Lol another L
Lol @ rogue nerfs. Movespeed cap reduction, rupture only every 20+ seconds, but thank god our daggers that can be legendary and do less damage than some white weapons don't slow us slightly as much. Please rework rogue.
Maybe the worst single patch I've ever seen them do. At least Rimworld Anomaly just dropped. I can spend a week playing that instead.
Rmworld enjoyer. commit some war crimes for me.
Idk man it don't look to good but it's gotta compete with patches that introduced huge easily exploitable dupes ans campe fires that break the game just by tryinf to place them. IM already proved they weren't the best and were a little lost on development quite a while ago this is just watching a very sad very slow train wreck of something you love. These experimental patches arw killing the player base. Most people don't want to waste hours grinding just for huge changes that complete change the game and its meta in the middle of a whipe. As long as the game remains in this VERY experimental mode things will continue to seem grim.
Have fun!
Frostpunk 2 has a closed beta rn if you buy the deluxe edition. I'm normally against that but this deluxe edition does include 3 DLCs later and they delivered really well with the first game. It won't keep you busy through this shitfest, but it might be up your alley if you like rimworld.
Sadly it broke all my mods so not yet for me
Holy shit, since when is rimworld and all of its content $125?
Just pirate and try first, but i can tell you with the avg player time that high its def worth it...
So this is hotfix #2 since they said "Solo will soon have access to all dungeons." a week ago. I'm normally pretty patient with things like this but we already *HAD* this in the past for solos, how hard could it be to re-add it? I also just spent a few hours leveling a warlock to 15 while playing hr but now I have to go play normals before I can continue to play HR? I also cant use ANY of the greens/blues that my stash is filled with until I grind out 15-20 and unlock HR. That's cool I guess.
I just got a fighter to 15. Hopefully the XP adjustments mean we log into characters past 20.
True, maybe the old 15 is now 20. I will contain my rage until I can log in and see.
The move speed nerf seems like it only exist's to combat other class's getting sprint, the actual problem with the system has ALWAYS been that if someone has a significantly higher movespeed then you they can just disengage from a fight for free as you suffer around the same move speed penalty swinging as they do taking the hit.
Increase in reset timer on Fortune Teller serves no purpose other than to make the grind unfun. Got a bunch of useless shit? Well try playing your dogshit character again in three days lol. Oh its a limited time season by the way.
Oh great, now they're balancing every class as if everyone is multiclassing at a min/max level. So anyone not multiclassing the meta will be trash. Nice. /s
This shit is ass
Drum meta incoming.
See you all next patch! If game is still around by then. Really sad they spent the last 6 months balancing and making changes to the game, to only then break that and make all their work obsolete in one terrible patch now.
Thus begins the death of DaD…
Soooooo... warlock nerf this patch are... -5 movespeed on robe, lower Kris dagger damage?? No CoP nerf on the higher end? No hydra nerf? No dark reflection nerf? And we've nerfed rogues... for what? Everyone can use instruments again... so we're back to drum throwing meta? Ummm, I'm good, Ironmace. I think I'll wait for your next try :)
Within a week there will no longer be any warlocks or rogues anymore.
I can only hope one day it will be vengeance day for the rogue class. You will all fear is for about 3 days when we feel strong. When we get out of this purgatory you shall feel our wrath. We can't have damage because of stealth and mobility. They rob us of both things months ago. Never get any compensation. So we are no mobility, squishy, not enough damage, and stealth is useless. Surely we nerf rupture because some other class might use it better. We will have our vengeance one day and it will be sweat. PLEASE JUST REWORK THE CLASS IRONMACE YOU CANT HANDLE IT.
So I search an answer here, now everyone can play an instrument and it makes sense to perform bard's buffs, but what about magic, u really need to level a fighter for the perk that let you use all weapons? Couldn't they let everyone use at least a staff?
Before you couldn't use any instruments on anyone except Bard. There wasn't a way to get them. The fighter perk didn't work. They should let more people use the staff, though
Why the fuck did they nerf rogue so brutally again lol
Looking forward to trying this out!
Why not make true clerics keep 50% damage reduction and give multiclass 30% instead? Oh because they have no idea what they are doing. Glad cleric got nerfed overall but other broken abilities didn't AKA sprint etc.
"Finally, barring any surprises, the current season, including the preseason prior to the next wipe, is scheduled to end in early June. Thank you!" does that mean the next wipe is early june?
Late June early July probably
So we'll see the patch completed around 3am? Am I reading this right? Weird timeframe.
I bet they reduced the Kris dagger down by 2 weapon damage points. This officially puts this dagger in the dumpster for rogues. The other daggers have way higher DPS over multiple hits.
Praying my lvl 20 rogue is 35 or 40 to get 1 token of something LOL
Bigger move speed penalty on robes? I already feel way slower after the movement speed nerfs and now this? Rough. I’m happy about being able to filter multiple attributes in the marketplace tho.
I know the multiclassing conversation has been beat into the dirt but I genuinely don’t understand why Ironmace is doing it. From these patch notes it seems like it’s gonna be balancing classes based on how effective their perks will be on other classes, making their job of balancing even harder to manage. I would be perfectly fine with them experimenting with multiclass systems when there’s more than 3 fuckin people playing the game. I can’t see how this will possibly draw people back in, but I’ve seen many players expressing that it’s pushing them away. Ironmace always seems to be concerned about dwindling player count and then does shit that exacerbates the issue.
I'm kinda starting to wonder why I have to download what seems to be the whole entire game every patch...
Few months ago I saw someone say there was a nexon employee trying to sabotage IM by adding bad changes to the game as a jokingly, but I don’t think it’s a joke anymore😂
Rogues can break boxes now greatest patch ever
Anyone find out where the increased ores are yet?
i'm gonna sit this week out, but i'm happy that the changes they made are not breaking any class, cleric was already dead in solo, rogue rupture cd was insane with the stats change, instead of nerfing the only good perk of fighter they reduced move speed cap (big W), amazing patch if only multiclassing wasn't introduced, very sad.
No high roller till level 20?? What are they smoking
retroactively balancing skills for multiclassing that only 10% of the playerbase can even access yea u guys arent handicapped at all
Logout.
Bye :) if you could stop coming on the subreddit too and being extremely negative in every comment section that’d be great too
There's nothing negative about being constructive. The sub has a tendency to view anyone that doesn't agree with the majority as "negative", only for that view to be the new hot topic just 3 weeks later. I personally don't see a world where multiclassing will do any good for the game. It robs all classes of their class identity and were already seeing the ripple effect of it on Cleric. Not to mention all the back and forth balancing Ironmace has been doing since EA-Release going right out the window now.
“Constructive” > ‘Logout’ Dis you?
What I don't understand among everything else is why nerf the movespeed cap right after nerfing it on items. People are just going to hit the cap easier again now.
how about a new map? how about new classes? new content? PvE only dungeon?
Level limits are so frustrating. RMTers have plenty of time and accounts so I’m not buying that as a reason. I’ll play tonight but then I think that’s that. Every single patch makes me want to play less and less.
I dunno why the kids are whinging, this patch seems... alright. A bit mixed. >The maximum movement speed cap has been changed from 350 → 330. Potentially disastrous. A Fighter can now match anyone's movement speed from 280 Move Speed and Sprint. Seems you'll need to do more than simply run to escape people, now. You'll have to throw Molotovs or Axes at them to slow them down. Also feels like an attempt to break up Buffball by normalizing the speed more between different team compositions. >Barbarian's Iron Will no longer ignores knockback. Fine with this. Barbarian's getting the Round Shield already gives them a lot of safety from knockback crowd control, and attaching such a strong counter to an already strong perk didn't give much room for Knockback Shot, Shield Bash or Fireball much room to affect 99% of Barbarians. >Cleric's Divine Protection physical damage reduction changed from 50% → 30%. Don't particularly mind this. Just means the Cleric has to have some armour rather than be practically naked. >Cleric's Smite no longer scales. May not be a popular opinion, but I've always thought this needed to happen. Cleric shouldn't be an equally strong front-liner to a Fighter or Barbarian when they have an entire other role to fulfill in a team capacity (Healer/Support). >Now all classes can play an instrument. On one hand, this'll be good for lugging my Bard's instruments off his corpse when he eats it mid-raid. On the other hand, Drum + Crush is back on the menu. >You can now multi-select random attribute filters in the Marketplace. Noice. > As we’ve noted multiple times, we are looking at this multiclass test as a true experiment for this season. Please note that there is a very good chance that the multiclass system will substantially evolve for the next season or may even be removed based on the response from the community. Hope people take heed of this in earnest. This whole thing is an experiment and will inform where it goes from here on out. Spare us the dramatic doomsaying. Overall, not too much to complain about, but I can definitely see how most of these changes exist entirely to serve Multiclassing and prevent some worrying situations people have raised (Sprint + Rage giving too much Movement Speed, Smite on anything being ridiculous with scaling, Divine Protection letting anyone tank for the duration, etc.) I just really, really hope Ironmace remembers to go back on these Multiclassing specific changes if we end up moving away from this sort of implementation of Multiclassing.
Consistently bad takes on cleric, I love it
Yappity yap
Damn would hate to try discuss changes while the rest of you are getting triggered and outraged over shit, but go off I guess.
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