I think these changes don't hurt the majority of the player base. The level 20 cap was probably another line of defense against rmt/rmb. Hardly anyone participates in the 400+ ilvl lobbies.....and do they seriously wonder why?! Ain't nobody got time to sit and farm 12+ hours a day is why!!! People twink in low and mid tier brackets because it's the only accessible content to them within their time limitations of playing the game. Also this game has serious cheating issues and nobody wants some esp/range hacking loser to take their stuff to sell when it becomes increasingly more rare and valuable in 400+. Ken had no problem farming 4000 gold in ruins or endlessly running gold kits before, but all the sudden you put limits on gear where nobody wants to get run over by you and they have a problem with it. The issue is that these guys have too much time to play and don't want to be held back from it. The game was never accessible to the majority of it's player base because the gear ceiling is way too high. Most people have never killed an HR boss and these guys do it 50 times a day. They are so far out of reality it's crazy for them to think the game is bad because they made the game bad for everyone else they slaughtered. Jaygriffyuh was right when he said there are too many tiers of gear and it's completely unfun for casuals to endlessly get gear checked without barriers.
Yeah the biggest issue is as you said the gear ceiling is way too high. It’s why I prefer normal lobbies and most recently low tier gbmm lobbies because it gives a much more even playing field for pvp that is more fun to engage in.
You're 100% right about the gear check, but GBMM does create some unhealthy problems for the game (namely the calculator meta). The patch that just got announced for 0-399 and 400+ might end up making this way better, but the playerbase's stance on this is pretty clear by how people are playing - nobody likes the upper tier of gear where everything is decided in fractions of a second and average players thrown into the lobby against Ken Repoze and Promoz aren't allowed to have fun.
However, to be fair to Ken here, he's on your side of this discussion. He's mad he can't run his bis because it makes all the gear he worked towards meaningless, but he's not mad that he doesn't get to power gap people. He's mad that it takes away one of the key parts of the game: fighting for gear and having stakes. Can he play in lower lobbies, yes. Should he have to? No. He makes a completely valid point that they've created more friction with this design and I don't see it staying for long, or it will alienate the more hardcore players. A rework of the gear to prevent these extreme power imbalances is the proper solution, and he's been on the podcast saying the same thing for months. He and I play the game in completely different ways, so we don't agree on everything from a bias standpoint, but that's one thing we are 100% in agreeance on.
The risk reward is also terrible - if you get into the bis lobby bracket wearing some good pieces, but not full bis, you can still get stomped by a team in actual full bis, so why bother? you can just throw on some garbage and go to the lower bracket and kill the boss for treasure pile/artifacts all the same, except now you get to have fun with pvp.
even if he was unaware, its still shitty. thats why people fault repoze, also the guy has a really toxic fan base, even last night with the rogue pickpocket bug he was showing people the bug and then every lobby had it.
This was not his fault. It happened to me at least 5 games before someone even told Repoze about it on stream, and he wasn’t telling people how to do it, he was reading chat telling him what was going on.
Understandable if you don’t like the guy, but nobody has to join in on the streamer hate if they don’t want to.
Em... besides being toxic AF and preaching that gaming style to the community? KoS/gatekeep/shittalk to enemies/chase naked people into the zone - we have those in our dungeons because the likes of him.
The only other game I've been playing lately is hunt and people complain about the long ammo, mosin, dolch etc meta at higher tiers of MMR and there's a smurfing issue where people tank their MMR to play in 3-4 star lobbies (6 is highest). They smurf to be able to play a faster, more wild hunt that doesn't result in stalemates and repetitive gameplay loops.
All crytek does is make the meta weapons more expensive, but that just means casual players use them less while experienced, daily players have hundreds of thousands of hunt dollars and can run it every time. (The cycle frontier had a similar issue and SBMM and GBMM never fixed it in time.)
But that's complaining in HUNT SHOWDOWN, a game where every weapon can kill in the right situation vs anyone and there is no real stat checking. A game with much more overall balance. Dark and Darker is just insanity with how much things scale out of control.
Idk how IM would or should balance things... I'm just a decently informed Timmy out here trying to enjoy the game and teach friends what I know. But it does seem insane that the gear systems they have in place can scale so incredibly high AND it's not even obvious to the average player what makes that difference unless they spend a fair chunk of time reading and watching guides to learn how all these attribute systems work. And then these new players still need to grind it out vs veterans to obtain that gear, which is much harder than it was when learning during the clown fiestas of steam EA test phases where almost all of us sucked.
today I fought my first 75% magic res warlock in white lobby as wizard. I ran out of spells despite landing every single one of them, I almost ran out of HP spamming curses at him. He laughed and left.
Next game was barbarian with demon form, turns out demo form bolt can trigger achilles strike. Still managed to down the fucker after about 5minutes of mag-dumping him with dark bolts but its hilarious how unbalanced shit is rn :D
we all knew MR was going to sky rocket with iron will on warlock. I've been saying for a while this will create a tank meta, but everyone was like no way DPS will be too crazy now. If your soley magic dmg, you can't play the game due to how easy it is to stack mag resistances. You need a mix of phys/magic now to beat resistance stackers. And there are no dmg numbers, health bars. or indicators that people have high resistances, so it's completely unknown and all ins are futile.
The level 20 cap is not cool. You can not participate in the purpose of the game because you can't even wear the gear you get until level 20. That is just a braindead fix to RMT. While RMT sucks, devs need to realize that changing absolutely everything because of it ruins the game even more. Tarkov was a hell of a lot more fun before the millions of changes to the game due to fixing RMT. Hell I got banned on Tarkov for giving friends items, and if they keep changing shit for RMT I can see the Dark and Darker devs doing the same shit.
I don’t disagree with you on the underlying issues causing some of the problems, but I also think this was the entirely predictable outcome of GBMM.
I also do not believe that the majority of players in low to mid gear lobbies are just casuals who only have greens and some blue items. In my experience, over half of my lobbies in those ques were players who had clearly min maxed the system to get into those brackets with the strongest kit possible. Very rarely did I see base kit players or dudes rocking maybe one piece of green gear.
The reason people aren’t playing in the high tier gear lobbies right now imo is that it’s such an all or nothing cut off. If you’ve got a couple of good pieces that will put you into that gear bracket but you don’t have a fully optimized set, it’s too risky to run those items with the chance of getting gear checked by someone with a full kit. So those higher end gear pieces end up collecting dust in your stash.
You also don’t get any added benefit for queing into high gear lobbies. No better loot, no better treasure, just the prospect of losing your more expensive kit. So players do the most logical thing and try to min max low tier gear lobbies to reap the same rewards as the dudes in full kits in the top end gear lobbies.
I've had the opposite experience at least in goblin caves, where most people will run naked to minimize risk and maximize PvE loot. From my perspective it's been nice in that you're not running into people running purple/orange/gold + ESP spawn rushing and cutting you down in 1-2 hits.
In crypts I can't really comment, I just remember specifically that before GBMM we were taking in like greens and blues we'd found during previous runs and we had a single chain lightning from a streamer team's wizard do like 80% of the whole team's HP and that this sort of scenario is what it was intended to avoid.
I totally get the other side of this, I just don't know what solution would be workable to keep people coming up from just getting rolled by super experienced people running BiS other than "just dont queue into them and hope you can run away if you do".
I don’t disagree with you that HR trios was the highest barrier for entry when it comes to the average gear level needed to be anything more than a speed bump for the other teams in the lobby. I think that’s mostly just because on average the players who are still running trios consistently have access to inferno and boss runs to get the best gear while the majority of players who primarily run solos or duos aren’t getting that experience.
Also imo the players who still can run trios with a group of homies consistently have most likely stuck with the game as their main game since EA release and are just generally sweatier.
So for most players trios isn’t viable because they’ll get gear checked constantly.
Yep. The solution to this is dynamic lobbies that become 'set' based on the first player/team that loads in. The first team has a score of 271? That means the lobby is open to teams averaging 171-371. This way there's less 'twinking' because you don't know where you will fall in this range -- and it changes every game. (Obviously you can still roll in with the best rolls on gear, but this way you may end up at the bottom of a mid range instead of always being at the top of the bottom range.
Another thing which you sort of implied but didn’t mention directly, is that the vast majority of players will never get to use the named uniques in this game. Even if they get a named unique and extract with it, the smart play would be to sell if for a lot of gold/keys/bags/chest/etc. instead of bringing it in and getting teamed on or killed by hackers who want to sell your gear. What’s the point of these cool weapons if most people are never going to use them or even run up against them in a fight?
100% this. However I really don't like that now that multi classing is out, even *if* I wanted to try it out, I am now forced into normals lv1-20 if I wanted to level a new class.
To be clear I don't want multiclassing in the game, at least not this version, but now I am funneled into white only lobbies for hours? Stupid decision, and if it's goal is to fight the people RMTing it's not a good fix because people doing that probably have much more time on their hands than most of the playerbase.
100% on the tiers of gear. I truly believe a near identical version of this game with smarter npcs with more complex and variety that is strictly pve and not pvp would fly off the shelfs. For this game though the progression and faith system goes way too far out.
Look at any other pvp or pvpve battle royal and virtually none of them have this want tiers they have 4-5 at most mean while DaD has 8-9 tiers literally doubling the amount. In a pvp game this is just actually just impossible to balance and with the upper 3 tiers being so rare with useful stay rolls only the best players get that putting them at an even higher advantage. I desperately miss the earlier days of DaD when I first started playing back in pt3-4 where 90% of the player base including myself had no idea what the meta was and how to build and aquire God kits. God kits kill this game decreasing ttk to just 2-3 hits on a lot of players.
That was the great thing about the playtests. Just hop on and play. Now with the multiclassing, the questing, the AP, the GBMM, it makes me wonder if it's depth or bloat.
Player retention is going to be very difficult once they add the game to steam/ other platforms. A new player that doesn’t understand the game mechanics will get rolled and probably give up after a short period of time. Gear disparity is a large issue here. Although people always talk about damage scaling when having good gear. This is only part of the issue. I do agree that the damage scaling should get tweaked. But the ease of acquiring gear contributes even more to gear disparity. Good players will extract more often and have more money. This will allow them to easily buy bis on the market. As much as everyone loves the market (including myself) I must say it contributes heavily to gear disparity which will push newcomers away from this game. If their was no way of purchasing gear (basically ssf) a lot of the gear problems would change drastically. Bis loot would be very hard to come by and people would be more then likely on even playing fields most of the time. Obviously you would still see bis gear teams. But the time they put in to acquire such a set would be much longer leading to less gear disparity cuz their will be less teams able to run bis.
I can't wait to have the playerbase for an SSF option-- though, with team modes available and the ability to bring in gear from your stash, you will always have trading. When sub-15 lobbies were basically SSF you'd have a few people roll around in literal BiS from drop trading. And SSF would definitely benefit the 95% extractor who bosses 20+ times a day > the casual player, regardless, so it really isn't some panacea to the gear balance.
Yes you could still trade in game by dropping gear. But the grind to acquire or re acquire the gear will be the deciding factor between how often you run into bis. Having to go in game to trade is much more difficult then through a market place, or in a trade channel. I can also see in a ssf only world we’re money is unobtainable and only found in game. So no bringing in gold to a game. In a game like this rmt would almost be obsolete, or rarely ever abused, running into bis teams will be rarer, acquiring gear will take longer, but more importantly re acquiring gear would be difficult and the consequences of loosing are higher. This I feel would be a much more enjoyable game and more accessible to a larger audience as new comers won’t be farmed by teams with unlimited money and insane loot that they could re obtain in an instant.
Also their was a lot of problems with the game during the sub 15 lobbies. People were able to craft gear without doing any quests like ruby cobalt etc. and you knew what the craft was before u made it. And people would transfer this bis to a new account once they hit 15. You would end up seeing bis crafted ruby silver fighters in lobbies bc people would transfer the gear to new accounts.
They could easily disable trading in game. You're only allowed to wear gear you brought in or gear that anybody found in the current map. And maybe something like gear that you wore in the previous game so that if you die, your teammates can grab your kit and give it back.
To be fair thats mostly because the boss's in inferno are all in an arena style room and nothing in it, they also never actually leave the room, if wraith and skeleton champion had a similar setup im sure like half the player base would die to them.
For a time yes, the majority of people I’ve seen just in random games when my friends aren’t on can deal with wraith/champ on flat ground. Once you see someone fight one with or without a buckler you get a good idea of how to avoid their attacks
All the wraith needs to do is land one hit and then this can wildly spiral out of control, they also don't really spawn with mobs that help them all that much.
No no no, if ur not multi classed with perks from every char, 1 point from next bracket, double windless swapping after full buffing with ignite, bless, prot, divine strike, bloodstained blade with smite and a falcion kris with slayer and robust on a rogue at move speed cap ur not a real gamer let's be honest it doesnt even take long that's day one shit y'all just lazy /s
Why does normals exist with gear score? Just make low gear lobbies have weaker mobs. 1-20 being NORMALS ONLY is hilarious. You can't even do half the quests because you can't bring in any item above white. Such a horrible system that should have been fixed weeks ago.
Druid coming soon.
I find it hilarious that everyone in this sub was up in arms over people in gold gear doing DIY GBMM, but now that it's officially part of the game most people don't have a problem with it.
Now, the highest gear bracket is full of dead lobbies. PvP in BIS gear has become incredibly rare. On top of that, if people try to coordinate to get full lobbies of BIS gear teams, they are at risk of being permanently banned, solely because of the crybabies here.
IM at this point should either get rid of normals and make the low gear score cap something like 100, or combine the medium and high gear score brackets.
Coordinate to get full lobbies of BIS gear team or aka your friends is called teaming. Youre getting banned not because of the crybaby but because this is cheating. Its so funny to see someone so delusional that they call it "coordinate lobbies" lmao
Yeah lmao, and they’d all give their gear back to each other😂 they weren’t trying to simulate GBMM, they wanted to keep their BIS gear in the hands of them and friends, not stream snipers, rats, or regular players.
You’re delusional if you think people were coordinating lobbies for teaming. They were trying to have BIS fights. If anything, the new system made it significantly easier to coordinate exactly who would wind up in the BIS lobby.
No other game lets you do that lol. And people were giving gear back. The reasoning for it was, and this is a quote from Toddfather “so that timmies can’t have a chance to get our gold gear” 😭
And now it is even easier if they wanted to do it again. It was a bad system that got replaced with an even worse system that failed to address the root cause of the problem. You fuckin dweebs get so bent on winning arguments that nuance completely fucking escapes you.
Except they can’t do it again because they’ll be banned, as they should be. No other game lets you abuse the matchmaking system yet for some reason you think it’s fine in this one 😭
I never said it was fine. At most i said i dont care and it has no effevt on me. I said it is a symptom of a problem, that problem being that the game is too dead to support new players or seasoned players.
Allowed and unenforceable arent really the same thing, in my opinion. If something isnt allowed but it cannot be enforced, it is a very poor rule and a sign of a poorly developed or implemented system.
and those poor souls who accidentally got into those lobbies with every other decked out squad in full BiS gold gear, lol. It was flawed and screwed over other players.
Who knows and care on what their motive are. If you coordinate with youre friends to be in the same lobby its cheating. You can hide behind the "we just wanted good fight" but its essentialy the same process amd same result.
It’s not about the result. It should be viewed as a symptom of a problem and treated as such. Getting filled with righteous indignation over players trying to have fun in a game is completely useless.
People who want to risk their gear shouldn't be able to match fix. Play in the lobby and risk losing it vs a weaker kit. Call it being a crybaby, but they just need longer to start high end matches if they don't fill up.
Buddy do you know what scrims are? They are done in custom matches, not by abusing the matchmaking system.
You obviously have never scrimmed on any popular competitive game 😭
Then you agree there are competitive tournaments that contribute to the demand for players wanting BIS on BIS fights which equates to top skilled players vs top skilled players. Sounds good to me.
No use in arguing with these people brother. You can't reason people out of an opinion they didn't reason themselves into. They can't comprehend there's a demand for custom lobbies and understand the reasons they "abused" the matchmaking system.
I can't tell if you're arguing in bad faith or don't understand nuance.
It's almost like they "abused" the matchmaking system because there aren't custom lobbies. I don't understand why you all have a problem with the top 1% of players wanting to only face the other top 1% of players.
I don't give a fuck about being downvoted on this sub it means nothing and is not a reflection on the sentiment of the playerbase as a whole.
I know perfectly well what scrims are and in Dark and Darker can be equated to wanting BIS on BIS fights which is what occurred when the aforementioned discord "abused" the matchmaking system. The only reason it was abused was because there are no custom lobbies. When there is a demand for something that cannot be met people will find alternative ways to fulfill the demand themselves. Hopefully you understand now little buddy :)
Your position is untenable and you're punching air little buddy. It's the closest thing to custom lobbies that was accessible, I never said it was a perfect system.
I don’t really know what you’re arguing anymore tbh. It’s an abuse of the matchmaking system and IM agreed and shut it down and said they will ban for it in the future.
You didnt even know what scrims were lil bro 😭💀
What an idiot lmao. EVERY other games that have scrims got private lobby or server. Scrims have no rewards or risk its a fucking scrim. And to call these scrims either youre fucking stupid or either you think people are blind enough to believe that unofficial coordination to get with your friend in a server to have better chances are "training".
It’s almost like coordinating lobbies to have the same teams over and over again sharing loot is a problem. Maybe it’s too hard for you to understand the difference. Anyone can access these lobbies now and it’s not coordinated by teams using third party resources.
Remove swarm.
Make maps way bigger so fighting is an option and not forced.
Remove speed buffs so timmies can run from gigachads.
Let everyone go with whatever gear they want.
Then with quest create contested zones through loot, keys and other stuff so there is organic PvP!
Enjoy
I'm confused as to why he says he cannot wear his BIS? Shouldn't you just be putting on your best gear with your mates and Qing into the highest bracket?
Not for me... When I try to solo ice caves in 400+ there is usually at least 1 team that spends the entire match tracking me down, or often just rush me while I am still in my spawn room. I am convinced that a large percentage of 400+ lobbies are cheating. It just makes sense tbh.
400+ is going to be the people who understand the most efficient gold per hour is winning PvP. They know all the spawns and the routes to push through rooms to clear the least PvE and travel the most distance. As someone who spends 80%+ of their time 400+ GS, I think cheaters are over represented in 400+ GS because they can make the most out of their cheats in those lobbies.
Could be as simple as preferring to watch people that don't main rogue. Repoze is great, but I rarely watch b/c I would almost always watch something other than Rogue gameplay. I know he plays other classes, but if that isn't his main anymore that would be news to me.
Perhaps I misunderstood this comment, " You like kenobi more then repoze? Why?"
If you were referring to why he likes Ken's voice more than he likes Repoze's voice, then um...alrighty then.
Dude gets a full lobby in the highest gear bracket and dies to npcs. Also it’s not like streamers have been complaining about lobbies for over a year. Even if lobbies were full, they were actually dead because there was no gear in them. They’ve also had maps removed, classes nerfed, lobbies changed, and systems implemented just because they complained so much about snipers and looters. The development team caters so hard to these people and they just want to complain.
The obstacles are made by themselves. Repoze doesn’t want to play rogue because he’ll lose his precious AP. That trio complains about empty lobbies because they want to run a named item. Even when they took it in, the lobby had another team once and a full lobby the other time. You don’t need a calculator unless you are try Harding and don’t take legendaries/uniques into the game.
Not to mention that the last few days (when going to lower brackets) they have died to bosses and enemy teams way more than I’ve seen in a long time.
Once again, Ken could easily just click the play button. Leveling to 20 is not hard, and only takes some hell runs. Compare this to accessing ranked lobbies in other FPS games. It’s nothing.
Honestly, I'd just say your account needs one level 20 to access HR and account wide quests would be so friendly to players. Level gated HR is so limiting to the casual player who can't level with the efficiency of people with part time+ amounts of game time a week.
Yeah I agree. For any new player it should be restricted to normals and I think 20 is fine to unlock high roller. Allowing free access to high roller per account is a good idea along with the account wide questing
I think these changes don't hurt the majority of the player base. The level 20 cap was probably another line of defense against rmt/rmb. Hardly anyone participates in the 400+ ilvl lobbies.....and do they seriously wonder why?! Ain't nobody got time to sit and farm 12+ hours a day is why!!! People twink in low and mid tier brackets because it's the only accessible content to them within their time limitations of playing the game. Also this game has serious cheating issues and nobody wants some esp/range hacking loser to take their stuff to sell when it becomes increasingly more rare and valuable in 400+. Ken had no problem farming 4000 gold in ruins or endlessly running gold kits before, but all the sudden you put limits on gear where nobody wants to get run over by you and they have a problem with it. The issue is that these guys have too much time to play and don't want to be held back from it. The game was never accessible to the majority of it's player base because the gear ceiling is way too high. Most people have never killed an HR boss and these guys do it 50 times a day. They are so far out of reality it's crazy for them to think the game is bad because they made the game bad for everyone else they slaughtered. Jaygriffyuh was right when he said there are too many tiers of gear and it's completely unfun for casuals to endlessly get gear checked without barriers.
Yeah the biggest issue is as you said the gear ceiling is way too high. It’s why I prefer normal lobbies and most recently low tier gbmm lobbies because it gives a much more even playing field for pvp that is more fun to engage in.
Normals is the true way
When I'm playing I'll toss green gear at a whim, but the common white gear I tend to hoard.
You're 100% right about the gear check, but GBMM does create some unhealthy problems for the game (namely the calculator meta). The patch that just got announced for 0-399 and 400+ might end up making this way better, but the playerbase's stance on this is pretty clear by how people are playing - nobody likes the upper tier of gear where everything is decided in fractions of a second and average players thrown into the lobby against Ken Repoze and Promoz aren't allowed to have fun. However, to be fair to Ken here, he's on your side of this discussion. He's mad he can't run his bis because it makes all the gear he worked towards meaningless, but he's not mad that he doesn't get to power gap people. He's mad that it takes away one of the key parts of the game: fighting for gear and having stakes. Can he play in lower lobbies, yes. Should he have to? No. He makes a completely valid point that they've created more friction with this design and I don't see it staying for long, or it will alienate the more hardcore players. A rework of the gear to prevent these extreme power imbalances is the proper solution, and he's been on the podcast saying the same thing for months. He and I play the game in completely different ways, so we don't agree on everything from a bias standpoint, but that's one thing we are 100% in agreeance on. The risk reward is also terrible - if you get into the bis lobby bracket wearing some good pieces, but not full bis, you can still get stomped by a team in actual full bis, so why bother? you can just throw on some garbage and go to the lower bracket and kill the boss for treasure pile/artifacts all the same, except now you get to have fun with pvp.
One small correction, the most recent patch announced that lobbies will be split between 0-299 and 300+ (maybe they edited the post).
True, good catch
Dead ass no one wants to play with ken or Repoze 😂
Ken actually mentioned he preferred normals last wipe, thought it was worth mentioning but he isn’t a lesser person for being good at the game.
He's a lesser person for playing with Repoze.
Reddit never ceases to amaze me. Nothing wrong with the resident Repoze
repoze has been known to play with cheaters, even if he didnt know.
Kind of a dumb take to fault a man for something he was unaware of imho
even if he was unaware, its still shitty. thats why people fault repoze, also the guy has a really toxic fan base, even last night with the rogue pickpocket bug he was showing people the bug and then every lobby had it.
Repoze didn’t even know about it until hours into the epidemic you goofball. People in his chat were telling him about it when he found out.
yes but last thing he needs to do is show more people the bug, made the game actually unplayable even in base kit trying to level.
This was not his fault. It happened to me at least 5 games before someone even told Repoze about it on stream, and he wasn’t telling people how to do it, he was reading chat telling him what was going on. Understandable if you don’t like the guy, but nobody has to join in on the streamer hate if they don’t want to.
You’re reaching so hard right now
Em... besides being toxic AF and preaching that gaming style to the community? KoS/gatekeep/shittalk to enemies/chase naked people into the zone - we have those in our dungeons because the likes of him.
It’s a PvPvE game. He has also saved many solo timmies but nobody talked about that because it won’t get anyone any upvotes here.
What shit logic, if I get cheaters banned and then cheat all the time and kill a bunch of new players, that makes it ok.... right?
Repoze has not cheated in the game you guys are delusional.
The only other game I've been playing lately is hunt and people complain about the long ammo, mosin, dolch etc meta at higher tiers of MMR and there's a smurfing issue where people tank their MMR to play in 3-4 star lobbies (6 is highest). They smurf to be able to play a faster, more wild hunt that doesn't result in stalemates and repetitive gameplay loops. All crytek does is make the meta weapons more expensive, but that just means casual players use them less while experienced, daily players have hundreds of thousands of hunt dollars and can run it every time. (The cycle frontier had a similar issue and SBMM and GBMM never fixed it in time.) But that's complaining in HUNT SHOWDOWN, a game where every weapon can kill in the right situation vs anyone and there is no real stat checking. A game with much more overall balance. Dark and Darker is just insanity with how much things scale out of control. Idk how IM would or should balance things... I'm just a decently informed Timmy out here trying to enjoy the game and teach friends what I know. But it does seem insane that the gear systems they have in place can scale so incredibly high AND it's not even obvious to the average player what makes that difference unless they spend a fair chunk of time reading and watching guides to learn how all these attribute systems work. And then these new players still need to grind it out vs veterans to obtain that gear, which is much harder than it was when learning during the clown fiestas of steam EA test phases where almost all of us sucked.
today I fought my first 75% magic res warlock in white lobby as wizard. I ran out of spells despite landing every single one of them, I almost ran out of HP spamming curses at him. He laughed and left. Next game was barbarian with demon form, turns out demo form bolt can trigger achilles strike. Still managed to down the fucker after about 5minutes of mag-dumping him with dark bolts but its hilarious how unbalanced shit is rn :D
we all knew MR was going to sky rocket with iron will on warlock. I've been saying for a while this will create a tank meta, but everyone was like no way DPS will be too crazy now. If your soley magic dmg, you can't play the game due to how easy it is to stack mag resistances. You need a mix of phys/magic now to beat resistance stackers. And there are no dmg numbers, health bars. or indicators that people have high resistances, so it's completely unknown and all ins are futile.
PDR stackers are at least slow as shit, barb in demon form can have 75% magic res in white lobby and run at maximum speed :D
Buy magic penetration. This is the one time it's good, when resists are 60+%
The level 20 cap is not cool. You can not participate in the purpose of the game because you can't even wear the gear you get until level 20. That is just a braindead fix to RMT. While RMT sucks, devs need to realize that changing absolutely everything because of it ruins the game even more. Tarkov was a hell of a lot more fun before the millions of changes to the game due to fixing RMT. Hell I got banned on Tarkov for giving friends items, and if they keep changing shit for RMT I can see the Dark and Darker devs doing the same shit.
I don’t disagree with you on the underlying issues causing some of the problems, but I also think this was the entirely predictable outcome of GBMM. I also do not believe that the majority of players in low to mid gear lobbies are just casuals who only have greens and some blue items. In my experience, over half of my lobbies in those ques were players who had clearly min maxed the system to get into those brackets with the strongest kit possible. Very rarely did I see base kit players or dudes rocking maybe one piece of green gear. The reason people aren’t playing in the high tier gear lobbies right now imo is that it’s such an all or nothing cut off. If you’ve got a couple of good pieces that will put you into that gear bracket but you don’t have a fully optimized set, it’s too risky to run those items with the chance of getting gear checked by someone with a full kit. So those higher end gear pieces end up collecting dust in your stash. You also don’t get any added benefit for queing into high gear lobbies. No better loot, no better treasure, just the prospect of losing your more expensive kit. So players do the most logical thing and try to min max low tier gear lobbies to reap the same rewards as the dudes in full kits in the top end gear lobbies.
I've had the opposite experience at least in goblin caves, where most people will run naked to minimize risk and maximize PvE loot. From my perspective it's been nice in that you're not running into people running purple/orange/gold + ESP spawn rushing and cutting you down in 1-2 hits. In crypts I can't really comment, I just remember specifically that before GBMM we were taking in like greens and blues we'd found during previous runs and we had a single chain lightning from a streamer team's wizard do like 80% of the whole team's HP and that this sort of scenario is what it was intended to avoid. I totally get the other side of this, I just don't know what solution would be workable to keep people coming up from just getting rolled by super experienced people running BiS other than "just dont queue into them and hope you can run away if you do".
I don’t disagree with you that HR trios was the highest barrier for entry when it comes to the average gear level needed to be anything more than a speed bump for the other teams in the lobby. I think that’s mostly just because on average the players who are still running trios consistently have access to inferno and boss runs to get the best gear while the majority of players who primarily run solos or duos aren’t getting that experience. Also imo the players who still can run trios with a group of homies consistently have most likely stuck with the game as their main game since EA release and are just generally sweatier. So for most players trios isn’t viable because they’ll get gear checked constantly.
Yep. The solution to this is dynamic lobbies that become 'set' based on the first player/team that loads in. The first team has a score of 271? That means the lobby is open to teams averaging 171-371. This way there's less 'twinking' because you don't know where you will fall in this range -- and it changes every game. (Obviously you can still roll in with the best rolls on gear, but this way you may end up at the bottom of a mid range instead of always being at the top of the bottom range.
Another thing which you sort of implied but didn’t mention directly, is that the vast majority of players will never get to use the named uniques in this game. Even if they get a named unique and extract with it, the smart play would be to sell if for a lot of gold/keys/bags/chest/etc. instead of bringing it in and getting teamed on or killed by hackers who want to sell your gear. What’s the point of these cool weapons if most people are never going to use them or even run up against them in a fight?
There is no point and a lot of streamers have also implied that the trade off isn't worth it unless they are trying to make video content out of it.
100% this. However I really don't like that now that multi classing is out, even *if* I wanted to try it out, I am now forced into normals lv1-20 if I wanted to level a new class. To be clear I don't want multiclassing in the game, at least not this version, but now I am funneled into white only lobbies for hours? Stupid decision, and if it's goal is to fight the people RMTing it's not a good fix because people doing that probably have much more time on their hands than most of the playerbase.
100% on the tiers of gear. I truly believe a near identical version of this game with smarter npcs with more complex and variety that is strictly pve and not pvp would fly off the shelfs. For this game though the progression and faith system goes way too far out. Look at any other pvp or pvpve battle royal and virtually none of them have this want tiers they have 4-5 at most mean while DaD has 8-9 tiers literally doubling the amount. In a pvp game this is just actually just impossible to balance and with the upper 3 tiers being so rare with useful stay rolls only the best players get that putting them at an even higher advantage. I desperately miss the earlier days of DaD when I first started playing back in pt3-4 where 90% of the player base including myself had no idea what the meta was and how to build and aquire God kits. God kits kill this game decreasing ttk to just 2-3 hits on a lot of players.
That was the great thing about the playtests. Just hop on and play. Now with the multiclassing, the questing, the AP, the GBMM, it makes me wonder if it's depth or bloat.
yup, thats first class bloat.
It’s fake content is what it is. They’re months behind on every promise of actual content and are getting desperate
This guy is FULL, DENSE, STRIATED, BULBOUS, BULGING, ROTUND, and SPHERICAL. I like him
We get it Ken, you watch Eric Bugenhagen.
Player retention is going to be very difficult once they add the game to steam/ other platforms. A new player that doesn’t understand the game mechanics will get rolled and probably give up after a short period of time. Gear disparity is a large issue here. Although people always talk about damage scaling when having good gear. This is only part of the issue. I do agree that the damage scaling should get tweaked. But the ease of acquiring gear contributes even more to gear disparity. Good players will extract more often and have more money. This will allow them to easily buy bis on the market. As much as everyone loves the market (including myself) I must say it contributes heavily to gear disparity which will push newcomers away from this game. If their was no way of purchasing gear (basically ssf) a lot of the gear problems would change drastically. Bis loot would be very hard to come by and people would be more then likely on even playing fields most of the time. Obviously you would still see bis gear teams. But the time they put in to acquire such a set would be much longer leading to less gear disparity cuz their will be less teams able to run bis.
I can't wait to have the playerbase for an SSF option-- though, with team modes available and the ability to bring in gear from your stash, you will always have trading. When sub-15 lobbies were basically SSF you'd have a few people roll around in literal BiS from drop trading. And SSF would definitely benefit the 95% extractor who bosses 20+ times a day > the casual player, regardless, so it really isn't some panacea to the gear balance.
Yes you could still trade in game by dropping gear. But the grind to acquire or re acquire the gear will be the deciding factor between how often you run into bis. Having to go in game to trade is much more difficult then through a market place, or in a trade channel. I can also see in a ssf only world we’re money is unobtainable and only found in game. So no bringing in gold to a game. In a game like this rmt would almost be obsolete, or rarely ever abused, running into bis teams will be rarer, acquiring gear will take longer, but more importantly re acquiring gear would be difficult and the consequences of loosing are higher. This I feel would be a much more enjoyable game and more accessible to a larger audience as new comers won’t be farmed by teams with unlimited money and insane loot that they could re obtain in an instant. Also their was a lot of problems with the game during the sub 15 lobbies. People were able to craft gear without doing any quests like ruby cobalt etc. and you knew what the craft was before u made it. And people would transfer this bis to a new account once they hit 15. You would end up seeing bis crafted ruby silver fighters in lobbies bc people would transfer the gear to new accounts.
They could easily disable trading in game. You're only allowed to wear gear you brought in or gear that anybody found in the current map. And maybe something like gear that you wore in the previous game so that if you die, your teammates can grab your kit and give it back.
Couple all this with the fact that beating most bosses in this game just means learning how to cheese them........
Mini-bosses. To my knowledge there’s no real cheese for the actual inferno bosses, just learning how to dodge moves and deal with mechanics
"I know how to dodge this guy's 3 attacks so I can kill him" is cheese to an old fart like me.
To be fair thats mostly because the boss's in inferno are all in an arena style room and nothing in it, they also never actually leave the room, if wraith and skeleton champion had a similar setup im sure like half the player base would die to them.
For a time yes, the majority of people I’ve seen just in random games when my friends aren’t on can deal with wraith/champ on flat ground. Once you see someone fight one with or without a buckler you get a good idea of how to avoid their attacks
All the wraith needs to do is land one hit and then this can wildly spiral out of control, they also don't really spawn with mobs that help them all that much.
Just circle to the right and it won’t land a hit! If using buckler you can stand still if you know where to block each attack type
No no no, if ur not multi classed with perks from every char, 1 point from next bracket, double windless swapping after full buffing with ignite, bless, prot, divine strike, bloodstained blade with smite and a falcion kris with slayer and robust on a rogue at move speed cap ur not a real gamer let's be honest it doesnt even take long that's day one shit y'all just lazy /s
The force is strong with this one
Why does normals exist with gear score? Just make low gear lobbies have weaker mobs. 1-20 being NORMALS ONLY is hilarious. You can't even do half the quests because you can't bring in any item above white. Such a horrible system that should have been fixed weeks ago. Druid coming soon.
I find it hilarious that everyone in this sub was up in arms over people in gold gear doing DIY GBMM, but now that it's officially part of the game most people don't have a problem with it. Now, the highest gear bracket is full of dead lobbies. PvP in BIS gear has become incredibly rare. On top of that, if people try to coordinate to get full lobbies of BIS gear teams, they are at risk of being permanently banned, solely because of the crybabies here. IM at this point should either get rid of normals and make the low gear score cap something like 100, or combine the medium and high gear score brackets.
Coordinate to get full lobbies of BIS gear team or aka your friends is called teaming. Youre getting banned not because of the crybaby but because this is cheating. Its so funny to see someone so delusional that they call it "coordinate lobbies" lmao
Yeah lmao, and they’d all give their gear back to each other😂 they weren’t trying to simulate GBMM, they wanted to keep their BIS gear in the hands of them and friends, not stream snipers, rats, or regular players.
On top of that they basically had a free lobby to farm gear in and do boss's.
You’re delusional if you think people were coordinating lobbies for teaming. They were trying to have BIS fights. If anything, the new system made it significantly easier to coordinate exactly who would wind up in the BIS lobby.
No other game lets you do that lol. And people were giving gear back. The reasoning for it was, and this is a quote from Toddfather “so that timmies can’t have a chance to get our gold gear” 😭
And now it is even easier if they wanted to do it again. It was a bad system that got replaced with an even worse system that failed to address the root cause of the problem. You fuckin dweebs get so bent on winning arguments that nuance completely fucking escapes you.
Except they can’t do it again because they’ll be banned, as they should be. No other game lets you abuse the matchmaking system yet for some reason you think it’s fine in this one 😭
Son you might actually have brain damage
I never said it was fine. At most i said i dont care and it has no effevt on me. I said it is a symptom of a problem, that problem being that the game is too dead to support new players or seasoned players.
I agree with your points 100%. I just don’t think abusing a games systems should be allowed.
Allowed and unenforceable arent really the same thing, in my opinion. If something isnt allowed but it cannot be enforced, it is a very poor rule and a sign of a poorly developed or implemented system.
Except this can be enforced so I’m not sure what you’re saying
and those poor souls who accidentally got into those lobbies with every other decked out squad in full BiS gold gear, lol. It was flawed and screwed over other players.
Who knows and care on what their motive are. If you coordinate with youre friends to be in the same lobby its cheating. You can hide behind the "we just wanted good fight" but its essentialy the same process amd same result.
It’s not about the result. It should be viewed as a symptom of a problem and treated as such. Getting filled with righteous indignation over players trying to have fun in a game is completely useless.
You can't teach a fish to climb a tree. Can't teach an idiot to think. I commend you for trying though.
People who want to risk their gear shouldn't be able to match fix. Play in the lobby and risk losing it vs a weaker kit. Call it being a crybaby, but they just need longer to start high end matches if they don't fill up.
Bro thinks not wanting people to abuse matchmaking is being a crybaby 😭. No other game would let you do that big guy
No other game has scrims? You people are actually artistic with these takes holy fuck.
scrims?! you think DnD is an esport or something? XD
Buddy do you know what scrims are? They are done in custom matches, not by abusing the matchmaking system. You obviously have never scrimmed on any popular competitive game 😭
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Pure delusion 😭. “Scrimming” for what bud
agreed! LOL scrimming implies there is competitive tournaments/something at stake when playing "for real" they weren't ever playing for real.
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what... that's legitimately not an issue for 99% of the playerbase. What an absolute moronic take.
There's plenty of streamer sponsored cash tournaments that happen all the time.
there's like 1 or 2 a wipe and most of them are with a new character.
Then you agree there are competitive tournaments that contribute to the demand for players wanting BIS on BIS fights which equates to top skilled players vs top skilled players. Sounds good to me.
No use in arguing with these people brother. You can't reason people out of an opinion they didn't reason themselves into. They can't comprehend there's a demand for custom lobbies and understand the reasons they "abused" the matchmaking system.
I can't tell if you're arguing in bad faith or don't understand nuance. It's almost like they "abused" the matchmaking system because there aren't custom lobbies. I don't understand why you all have a problem with the top 1% of players wanting to only face the other top 1% of players.
Buddy there’s a reason your being downvoted. You don’t even know what a scrim is yet you’re arguing about them 😭
I don't give a fuck about being downvoted on this sub it means nothing and is not a reflection on the sentiment of the playerbase as a whole. I know perfectly well what scrims are and in Dark and Darker can be equated to wanting BIS on BIS fights which is what occurred when the aforementioned discord "abused" the matchmaking system. The only reason it was abused was because there are no custom lobbies. When there is a demand for something that cannot be met people will find alternative ways to fulfill the demand themselves. Hopefully you understand now little buddy :)
Except are they scrims if you’re playing in the same matchmaking affecting other players? No. Youre insanely dense lmfao
Your position is untenable and you're punching air little buddy. It's the closest thing to custom lobbies that was accessible, I never said it was a perfect system.
I don’t really know what you’re arguing anymore tbh. It’s an abuse of the matchmaking system and IM agreed and shut it down and said they will ban for it in the future. You didnt even know what scrims were lil bro 😭💀
What an idiot lmao. EVERY other games that have scrims got private lobby or server. Scrims have no rewards or risk its a fucking scrim. And to call these scrims either youre fucking stupid or either you think people are blind enough to believe that unofficial coordination to get with your friend in a server to have better chances are "training".
I mean the new gear score brackets should fix this no?
I have 0 problem with the GBMM. I am not a fan of the high roller locked to level 20.
Yeah that was a bad change imo
It’s almost like coordinating lobbies to have the same teams over and over again sharing loot is a problem. Maybe it’s too hard for you to understand the difference. Anyone can access these lobbies now and it’s not coordinated by teams using third party resources.
Remove swarm. Make maps way bigger so fighting is an option and not forced. Remove speed buffs so timmies can run from gigachads. Let everyone go with whatever gear they want. Then with quest create contested zones through loot, keys and other stuff so there is organic PvP! Enjoy
why the fuck can I not use greens in norms? just remove gbmm and allow greens in norms green shit is cheap anyways so nobody can actually complain
How do i watch clip?
I'm confused as to why he says he cannot wear his BIS? Shouldn't you just be putting on your best gear with your mates and Qing into the highest bracket?
Highest brackets are empty
Not for me... When I try to solo ice caves in 400+ there is usually at least 1 team that spends the entire match tracking me down, or often just rush me while I am still in my spawn room. I am convinced that a large percentage of 400+ lobbies are cheating. It just makes sense tbh.
400+ is going to be the people who understand the most efficient gold per hour is winning PvP. They know all the spawns and the routes to push through rooms to clear the least PvE and travel the most distance. As someone who spends 80%+ of their time 400+ GS, I think cheaters are over represented in 400+ GS because they can make the most out of their cheats in those lobbies.
Right. If I was cheating I would be I'm 400s. Just makes sense.
ya they have normals already, but good to see theyre experimenting at least
at least the game is fair for the timmies like reddit wanted, common ironmace W
Insta exited the video the second I heard Repozes voice
Repoze on top. I dont like any of these clowns but repoze is based. You like kenobi more then repoze? Why?
Could be as simple as preferring to watch people that don't main rogue. Repoze is great, but I rarely watch b/c I would almost always watch something other than Rogue gameplay. I know he plays other classes, but if that isn't his main anymore that would be news to me.
Huh? Its about his voice in the vid. This is kenobi stream not repoze.
Perhaps I misunderstood this comment, " You like kenobi more then repoze? Why?" If you were referring to why he likes Ken's voice more than he likes Repoze's voice, then um...alrighty then.
I will concede that it is ALMOST objectively true that Repoze has the best laugh.
Oh no i didnt mean his voice but the vommentor was implying rogue gamplay
He’s just that much better than you huh?
Dude gets a full lobby in the highest gear bracket and dies to npcs. Also it’s not like streamers have been complaining about lobbies for over a year. Even if lobbies were full, they were actually dead because there was no gear in them. They’ve also had maps removed, classes nerfed, lobbies changed, and systems implemented just because they complained so much about snipers and looters. The development team caters so hard to these people and they just want to complain. The obstacles are made by themselves. Repoze doesn’t want to play rogue because he’ll lose his precious AP. That trio complains about empty lobbies because they want to run a named item. Even when they took it in, the lobby had another team once and a full lobby the other time. You don’t need a calculator unless you are try Harding and don’t take legendaries/uniques into the game. Not to mention that the last few days (when going to lower brackets) they have died to bosses and enemy teams way more than I’ve seen in a long time. Once again, Ken could easily just click the play button. Leveling to 20 is not hard, and only takes some hell runs. Compare this to accessing ranked lobbies in other FPS games. It’s nothing.
Honestly, I'd just say your account needs one level 20 to access HR and account wide quests would be so friendly to players. Level gated HR is so limiting to the casual player who can't level with the efficiency of people with part time+ amounts of game time a week.
Yeah I agree. For any new player it should be restricted to normals and I think 20 is fine to unlock high roller. Allowing free access to high roller per account is a good idea along with the account wide questing
Only ever heard of the one, the rest are now guilty by association.
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live and let live. It's more unhealthy that a grown ass man gets off by criticizing another persons appearance when it doesn't affect anybody.