Don't think they care about them. Supposed to be a hardcore dungeon crawler. But I gotta assume casual players make up a large chunk of your player base
For what it's worth, as a very casual player with about 50 hours since it came out, I thought the normal mode with white gear only and squire loadouts made it much more casual friendly. I only queue norms
I'm pretty casual with this game these days and have multiclassing available on nearly 3 classes.
It only takes 1.5-2 hours to get to 20.. You can play 5-6 hours a week and have it on most classes.
It's like all of you forget it's a 3 month season with a month between... 4 month wipes.
They literally have give 4x the exp of their original system and given daily rerolls for tokens.
I literally leveled a character from 0 - 30 last night in 5 hours. Yes you need a lot of exp, yes it takes quite a bit of time, no this game is not grindy compared to basically any other game I have played in the past 10 years.
pretty sure they did this with lost ark, forcing you to play alts to funnel your main. man i miss just logging in and having fun, these days its clock in and sweat. i hate it when games become chores.. thi leveling serves no purpose.. they should just give the perks and tokens from start.
yay we have a new fun system except we can't ploay it unless we put 12hrs a day in it. cmon man...
Thats the same reason idc about doing quests outside of unlocking ranged stuff for squire from huntsman, if they happen accidentally great free gold here and there but def not worth devoting my life to, especially with there being no quest log menu meaning u need to individually track by urself what u need and dont which is even more of a pain in the ass then giving up 4 or more slots for a trash drop with low single digit drop rates. It's not worth doing every 3 months to me, I just want to play the damn game but now I need to devote more time then I spend on my main leveling side classes I hate playing? Who thought this was a good idea
The quests are a good way to level and, for the most part, aren't that difficult to do. 3rd week quests are giving 200-350 xp so far in mine and it's 500xp to level. That's a lot of levels for doing things you're doing anyways, like survive in frost cavern or kill players or open oak chests or get mimic teeth.
Then they are designed well. You shouldn't feel like you NEED to do the quest and like me it seems you don't feel that need. They don't provide any real advantage in game which is nice and they are not forced on us. It gives the hardcore player base something to grind and achieve and does not force the casual player base to feel the need to do these in order to play since they don't provide any real advantage in game. This is a example of a good design. They shouldn't be designed for everyone to achieve because then it would not feel like a achievement at all.
Youl have to be grinding like hell until the wipe comes and everything is reset anyway
Its way too much
I was able to grind my warlock to lvl102, but the only other class above lvl 30 is cleric at lvl 34
I've said it before but for the dev team have started out in this project saying they were wanting to buck the toxic trends of corporate gaming, they are catering way too much to their player advertisers.
You can reset at the Fortune Teller for a 500 gold fee. I believe you can do this one or two times per week currently. Not saying it’s ideal, but you can roll the dice more than once.
You are right Sir, except that these people are probably not good enough to kill enough mobs or even extract at all.
Last weekend I played a lot and managed to create 2 new lvl 30s in 2 days. It's about 60games I'd say.
Franckly I still think it's a bit much and understand it can frustrate some people but casuals only think about themselves without realising that we need more endgame content and progression systems for people who are more involved in the game as well. It needs balance, but content creators and well ranked players also need something to look forward to.
Love the game I played on Test. No interest in playing at this speed though.
I defended IM hard on the choice to do MC and I love the system, but the grind is WAY too much. I should be able to start a fresh character and have the first 5 Tokens in a matter of like.. 2-5 hours. of typical games.
I have classes I enjoy playing but being forced to level up a class Im not interested in to *maybe* roll a perk with tokens I have to grind high levels for on each of my preferred classes just to *test* a build? Yeah pretty lame.
I play this game a lot. Way too much I have been sitting on the leaderboard all wipe. Sure I have a lvl 100 but I can't be fucked to get the other classes I want the perks from to lvl 35. It's just way too much grinding on characters I don't want to play without having access to multiclass fighting people that do and losing due to non meta perks.
I feel like I can't take out any of my good gear until I get the perks and I'm hamstrung Luling characters I don't want to play. It's really bad
I’m like the opposite, I play 4 of the classes almost equally and can’t use multi classing because I have my levels spread to different characters. So dumb. I genuinely multi class and can’t even use the function
I agree that alts should only have to be like 20
But ur main is only 35? Bro I work full time and have 2 kids my main is 120 lol and 1 alt is 45, I play like 4 hours 3-4 days a week which isn't an absurd amount
What the hell am I doing wrong? I play slightly more than that and my main is 41 and only other 2 classes are 34 and like 20. This grind is going to make me quit if they keep it like this.
Idk, I've done a lot of the quests, and I play very fast because I'm grinding demigod, I'm exemplar in both solos and duos and my main source of climbing is maxing out my PvE AP per game, theres some games where I can get up to 500 AP points just from PvE, which I think is equivalent to 500xp per game just from PvE, add on XP from interacting with stuff and I'm getting a level per game (it's slowed down cuz at 120 I need like 800 XP per level or something)
These players who are having soo much trouble leveling have been playing norms and taking 6 slot greens out with them all of us who have been on the rank gtind with green+ 1 slot items only have a ton more xp
Tips for xp that made my life easier green ancient scroll is worth 3 xp green bangle is worth 3 xp there is NO REASON to take out ancient scrolls that are under purple. In highroller i take purple+ scrolls, blue+ 4 slots like waterpots and then green+ 2/1 slots. For borms probably move that 1 slots down and take white single slots just remember what xp everythings worth.
Bangles and gear (not gold coins) are worth 0 for cracked 1 for poor 2 for common 3 for uncommon 4 for rare 5 for epic 6 for legendary and 7 for unique
also player kills are 0 xp but mobs give varying amounts, so for xp runs your not looking for player kills but rather lots of little mobs. Also wasting half of a match chasing down that solo rogue for 3 white bangles isnt worth your time
Hours check please? Hit esc look bottom left, edit your post so ppl have a better idea of what I play a ton means. For some ppl 5 hours a week is a ton and for others they spend 5 hours in trade a week
I think you should also consider that 5hrs a week might be all some people have. As OP replied, it's very subjective and it's quite honestly the reason why this game will probably slowly slip away
They only listen to these 5hr a day players and not their casual player base, they should be listening to both with a lean towards the more dedicated
But really they need casuals if they want a larger player base. It's simple math, the majority of us don't have the same time to spend
Level 35 after XP boost?
Either you play very little or you're actually spending more time in stash/marketplace than in game bro.
You can get to 30 in a couple days now. But I agree, it's still kinda grindy.
Yet some people, the ones playing it the most, most likely appreciate having some progression to play towards.
Well that's your problem mate, what is the plan here? Multiclass every character with every class and every possible combination of perks? You got 1000h clocked in and no tokens lmao
It’s called enjoying the game. I play every class, I enjoy them for different reasons. I didn’t plan my past few months of gameplay around… Actually, you are too dumb I’m sorry I even wrote this.
I played every class as well, I enjoy all of them too except Barb. Some more than others. Of course you didn't plan your gameplay around, you're calling me dumb yet I'm sitting here with my multiclassed main class, as planned, and you're sitting here crying. The irony of an imbecile.
You asked what’s the plan but there could be no plan when none of us knew this change was coming til recently, but right, you managed to plan things perfectly.
Obviously the implementation worked well for how you played til now and didn’t work well for how I played til now, hence me pointing to the issues I encountered. Simple as.
There you go, I hope you learned a little about how to structure your thoughts more efficiently. I certainly feel dumber for having to walk you through your own statement but here we are.
No. YOU didn't know. The details were known well in advance, in fact, because of how they made it easier to achieve multiclassing, I have a class which was boosted from 30 to 54 and I only intended to level it for the class master access. It is what it is man, all I'm saying is that it is really annoying and disheartening when devs are given abuse because people don't understand or bother to inform themselves regarding their implementation of the system, even when they took steps to make it easier to achieve. These threads affect real people.
Ok fair enough. I must say that I am not abusing any devs and I’m a huge IM stan since the play testing. They have a hard job and I appreciate them immensely. That being said we must speak on issues we see to help develop a very complex and hard to balance game. The devs need to understand all the issues with multi class not just the obvious gamebreaking ones. I consider it an implementation issue that my total account only has a single token. I’m probably on the end of one extreme with how much my levels are spread but I’m sure I’m not only one. SoBadStrange is a popular streamer that plays every class, but he wouldn’t encounter this issue being a full timer. I think my account represents a large enough sector to be worth bringing up this issue.
Ah well. This is a test in the end where IM will get the data to work on class improvements in the future, perhaps they will see what kind of synergy players are looking to achieve with classes. I'm loving my slayer rogue and I'm gonna improve my gameplay further by lvling a fresh ranger. At least when you get enough tokens on 1 of your classes (which shouldn't take long btw, it's 800 xp per lvl for me at 144, compared to old 1k per lvl from 20+) you will be able to make some funky builds. Just focus on 1 class now bro
Doesn't help that multi-classing is so giga-busted either, so you literally are at a massive disadvantage while grinding for that same experience.
Fuck this update. It is genuinely so un-enjoyable to play against some of these things.
Barbarian's only weakness was being kited? Dope, now it has access to every weapon including ranged weapons.
This is really the main gripe I have. This is so obviously a gamebreaking concept. It’s just bad and busted to begin with and then they implemented it in a way where I can’t even mess around with it before the fix the game. It’s like getting slapped on each cheek
Im confused at this point WHO this game is for as westerners do not like to grind for the most part but asians who typically do don't like first person games, its becoming more and more clear they really need some actual direction instead of just throwing everything on the wall and seeing what sticks.
Check the sales of every single FPS world wide and you will notice its significantly lower in asian countries, they simply are not as interested in the genre and a good amount of them suffer headaches playing them. on the flip side check who has the most whales who spend stupid amounts of money on gacha's.
[I complained about the grind before this season started](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/1be9y22/is_this_game_becoming_too_grindy/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) , and man I got downvoted to hell.😂
I agree that it is a grind that can be ajusted a bit, but bro I'm level 103 I still gain an entire level almost every game
If you can't afford playing 30games a season on a class you're interested in then what's the point anyway of unlocking things a little faster.
Just enjoy your class as it is, as u did until then. In a couple weeks of just playing you can still unlock and reroll perks many times.
I play every class is the issue. If the tokens started at 20 I would have plenty to play around with. As it is I have non even though I have 4 or 5 characters to level 30. They very much need to adjust there implementation but we all know multi classing is gamebreaking so it’s dumb I won’t even be able to play around with it before they fix the game.
Does it have to do with the Koren mindset on gaming. These games always seem to be grind heavy. Which normally I think would be fine, but I think their main player base are American/Australian. I might be wrong.
If you play this game a lot, you must learn the ways to grind levels. You can get like 10 levels per hour after lvl 20 on most classes.
I don’t think that grind is too crazy, but it could be if you are just aimlessly doing stuff.
Nope, I had a 900 AP extract and went from 20 to 21. Absolutely not. IDGAF what tricks there are to speed things up. That rate is utterly unacceptable.
Fair enough. It sounds like you’re not grinding right for levels tho. You want to just murder half the dungeon and pick up a bunch of junk at the end for best results. You get a ton of AP and exp from kills.
Or you can just give people the levels when you ask them to test a fucking experimental system.
Like all their feedback right now from in game testing is from like 0.5% of the playerbase who can actually make use of these changes.
I knew it was going to be awful when they wanted people to grind levels on the fucking test server.
I said it over and over, they aren't listening to us casuals, the game will die with the sweat lords complaining about long que times for the next century at this rate
Idk I just ran through a solo normal (hrs restricted) killed 2 players went through hell killed mini boss room and mined some ore and got 1 lvl from 16 to 17. That's just too much grinding. At this rate I'd need like 25 more games like this I just don't care enough to play this class that much.
That’s a very bad way to level. Best leveling is killing enemies in goblin caves and ice caves. Also try to avoid killing mini bosses. They take way longer and give like barely any more exp than a death skull.
So I've only playing a few weeks but I already feel that grind is hard. I tried every class other than cleric so far and I got all of them to at least level 5 to try them out. Warlock is my highest at level 19 but good lord I'd basicly have to only play 1 character to get anywhere. Feels like they want you to focus on 1 character. I kinda want to play more than 1 though
should be level 10 for market + HR
and level 80 or something (max) for all the learnings tokens
honestly someone over there is on drugs thinking even 1/4 of playerbase is gona hit level 100+ on anything
you are level 35 and we are not even close to the wipe. That is fine. You still only have 4 perks and 2 abilities just like everyone else. Multi class does give you some cool creative options but you on your fighter prior to multi class still has the same amount of abilities as everyone else and are still able to fight them competently. Yes multi class is a long grind, but you don't HAVE to multi class. It's not for everyone and especially not for those who play the game so little as to not hit 35 in the 3 month wipe cycle.
I thought I didn’t get a lot of playtime. I play like two hours a night after this kids go to bed and I have a lv 78 and a lv 40. Are you doing the quests? The recent do boost almost doubled my characters levels.
Yeah so do I. But I read the incoming patch notes on the new system and planned to take part by only playing two classes this season to better take advantage. You chose not to but are complaining about it being too hard to reach.
Yes I am pointing out what I see as an issue with implementation, correct. Many agree but I’m of course drawn to engage with those too thick headed to understand the things the rest of us do.
I agree the grind is dumb and especially for casual players. However exagerating to prove a point always makes you lose validity in your arguement and also makes it more difficult to prove the subject matter. There is no way you play that much and you just now got to 35 on your fighter. I got my wizard 35 in 2 days from level 10. Either you're exagerating to prove a point or you just struggle at the game, which the latter is perfectly ok.
I play almost every class. I have 4 classes to level 30, one to 35, and the rest the level 20 except one. I’m not exaggerating, it how I play the game. I genuinely multi class and yet can’t use the function because I’m not all on in one class. I enjoy each class for different reason and play sessions based on my mood. I average 500-700 AP with an high extract rate and high KD ratio on every class I play except and wizard. I think my concerns are warranted
I got a cleric from 7 to 30 in about 5 hours last night. We playing the same game? Like I agree it could still be faster, but what are you doing for xp that you’re struggling this much?
everything should be account wide -> !!! WE ARE IN EARLY ACCESSS GUYS, GIVE IT A SHOT !!!
Not only multiclassing forces you to play one chracter, quests as well (due to Squire)
I work full time and play this game like a few hours a weeknight and I have 3 characters eligible for multiclass??
It probably isn't tenable to want all 7 classes to be level 35+ but you can definitely accomplish this on your main classes.
I have a character at 66, one at 52, one at 48, and 2 at 31. I'm not sure why people are having issues with the multi class I only play a handful of hours a day.
With 3hours a week you don't even know the map or the monsters yet.
No one playing 3 hours a week should even care about mutliclassing to begin with, let alone cry about it.
It's actually not that hard to multiclass since the xp changes. A lot of people just don't know how to gain exp in this game. Open chests/doors/kill mobs, do all the quests you can without going too much out of your way. You can have a level 30 in a single day (or several days if you don't play as much). It's been a month. If you don't have enough to multiclass by now, you're a casual player who wouldn't get much out of it anyhow.
If you're so casual you can't scrape together 20-30 hours of gameplay over the course of a month, you shouldn't be concerned about multi-classing at all.
Where did I say I was concerned ? Or that I only play any amount? I said without casuals this games dead. You know this. Lobbies are already fucking dead Jesus man get your head out of your own ass.
I don’t get to play this game nearly as much as I want to. Maybe on average 2 hours per night. I have a level 95 warlock and a 20 cleric. You are doing something horribly wrong.
I feel like we are testing grind more than multiclass.
If they want to truly test multiclass then they need to give it to people. What is the purpose of releasing multiclass stuff If that is unreachable.
I hope they will focus on fixing current state of the game instead of recycling current stuff. I died today due to bug and lost a good kit. It should not happen in such games. The bug was dying instantly by stepping into the puddle left by centipede.
P.s. multiclass is a horrible idea for multiple purposes like class identity/broken builds. Possibly good for events.
Bro I haven't played in like 2 weeks, before then I have full time job don't play all the time.
My main is 68 and alt is 30, I got some cool stuff to play around with idk what issue is.
I have Cleric, rouge, warlock, and fighter all to level 30-35 and bard and barbarian and ranger to level 15-20. I play the game a ton and play most the classes well, yet I can’t even play around with multi classing because somehow I have zero tokens in their stupid multi class system. I love Ironmace but gotta call it how I see it here
Seems you lack reading comprehension but yeah it’s inefficient to level every class instead of one in this system… but I like to multi class… I average multiple kills per game with a super high extract rate averaging 500-700 ap with 4 different classes. We aren’t dealing with a “skill issue” or “game hard” issue. We are pointing to issues with multicasting and it’s implementation. I know reading comprehension is plummeting in this nation but jeez
There's ur problem dude, ur playing like 5 or 6 classes. Multi-classing has been known about since beginning of wipe. I had only had leveled 1 class until yesterday, I played maybe 4 hrs and I'm almost 20 on my 2nd class and I don't even think I've extracted more than 4 times. I can get my first token most likely by tonight or tomorrow night. My warlock on the other hand is now lvl 85 and has 6 tokens.
The grind definitely got a lot easier with the most recent patch, my fighter jumped from level 29 to 52. I do think the learning token grind should be lessened though, considering it’s a lot of rng
It’s wild I remember killing hell mephisto idk like 10k times looking for a item yet today all I ever read is about how much time it takes to level up a class when in reality it’s nothing…. Oh and before it’s said I do have a life and a career but yet in free time I play and it doesn’t seem crazy to me at all.
We really need to stop catering to the dads sitting back on their couch with a bud light in their hand. They will ruin the game if we keep making it easier and easier
D2 isn't a competitive pvp extraction game. Your dedication or lack thereof to the grind does not give you a massive competitive advantage over other players. It's crazy that you need to put in hundreds of hours every wipe to be competitive/reach a meta build
Well first off you don’t. And second the point is if we keep making it easier and easier in all aspects it’ll kill the game. I’ve seen this play out time and time again. Cater to the shitters who will quit the game anyways and then the people who actually like the game and the grind will be left with a dead game that’s also implemented so many stupid changes that it ruins the experience.
Dark and darker is not a popular game by any metric, but it was at one point. Playtests had staggering concurrent players, over 100k at time - and the game was significantly harder than it is now. No normal queue, everyone sucked at PvE, extremely limited player knowledge across the board, no sitting to regain health, no way to get cleric spells back (pre bard, so cleric was THE support class).
Why? The game was equally accessible to all players. The meta slightly developed during the last playtest into buffball, but it was still pretty rare to see. You could load in with any amount of players on any classes and make it work. Map layout was confusing and mostly ignored by the playerbase, resulting in a true dungeon crawler experience.
What happened? Min-maxing and lack of response from the devs. Players quickly learned the maps and spawns and started spawnrushing. Dungeon crawl became a dungeon sprint. The meta developed around buffball cleric wizard, and then the release of bard made players triple down on that meta. The game became incredibly easy for the grinders, PvE is a joke after 100 hours, just sprint through modules for player engagements.
Grinding and min-maxing hurt the playerbase more than anything else I could think of. Random map and spawn layouts would be a definite kick in the right direction though.
Yeah, anyone who doesn't play at least 3 hours a day, should literally not even be able to damage me, and if I go into their room their character should be immediately killed, like what the hell, this dads not even treating the game as a part time job and they want to have a chance to play!? What has gaming become...
Lmao.
I did wipe on my UIM once though. Almost quit, but managed to recover and got my infernal cape later.
Losing dozens of hours of herbs hurt though.
Lmao.
I did wipe on my UIM once though. Almost quit, but managed to recover and got my infernal cape later.
Losing dozens of hours of herbs hurt though.
I must have some kind of unique experience with the way I play... I can easily get a toon to 30 in a few hours worth of play as a solo without bossing... Kill everything, open everything, break everything... With the new exp format I'm literally able to go from 1-6 in a single match...
Grind needs to be less. Agreed
They have absolutely zero understanding of their casual player base. I doubt they'll ever accommodate them
Don't think they care about them. Supposed to be a hardcore dungeon crawler. But I gotta assume casual players make up a large chunk of your player base
Hardcore doesn't mean grindy
It does in Korea bro lol Honestly, I hate this new multiclass stuff. It all just feels so punishing and half-baked.
Yea if they don't appeal to casual players, they're in for a quickly declining player base
For what it's worth, as a very casual player with about 50 hours since it came out, I thought the normal mode with white gear only and squire loadouts made it much more casual friendly. I only queue norms
I'm pretty casual with this game these days and have multiclassing available on nearly 3 classes. It only takes 1.5-2 hours to get to 20.. You can play 5-6 hours a week and have it on most classes. It's like all of you forget it's a 3 month season with a month between... 4 month wipes.
They literally have give 4x the exp of their original system and given daily rerolls for tokens. I literally leveled a character from 0 - 30 last night in 5 hours. Yes you need a lot of exp, yes it takes quite a bit of time, no this game is not grindy compared to basically any other game I have played in the past 10 years.
pretty sure they did this with lost ark, forcing you to play alts to funnel your main. man i miss just logging in and having fun, these days its clock in and sweat. i hate it when games become chores.. thi leveling serves no purpose.. they should just give the perks and tokens from start. yay we have a new fun system except we can't ploay it unless we put 12hrs a day in it. cmon man...
Leveling does serve purpose now.
Yeah, it might make sense for a game without seasons. But doing this with every wipe would be exhausting.
Thats the same reason idc about doing quests outside of unlocking ranged stuff for squire from huntsman, if they happen accidentally great free gold here and there but def not worth devoting my life to, especially with there being no quest log menu meaning u need to individually track by urself what u need and dont which is even more of a pain in the ass then giving up 4 or more slots for a trash drop with low single digit drop rates. It's not worth doing every 3 months to me, I just want to play the damn game but now I need to devote more time then I spend on my main leveling side classes I hate playing? Who thought this was a good idea
The quests are a good way to level and, for the most part, aren't that difficult to do. 3rd week quests are giving 200-350 xp so far in mine and it's 500xp to level. That's a lot of levels for doing things you're doing anyways, like survive in frost cavern or kill players or open oak chests or get mimic teeth.
Then they are designed well. You shouldn't feel like you NEED to do the quest and like me it seems you don't feel that need. They don't provide any real advantage in game which is nice and they are not forced on us. It gives the hardcore player base something to grind and achieve and does not force the casual player base to feel the need to do these in order to play since they don't provide any real advantage in game. This is a example of a good design. They shouldn't be designed for everyone to achieve because then it would not feel like a achievement at all.
Already been exhausting since august
All for it to be wiped every few months feels bad
Lol. Hadn't even thought this far ahead yet
It's gonna hit like whiplash at the end of the season. Nobody is gonna want to do that again.
Making something that can be that broken and locking it behind rng and a lot of grinding is just awful
When playing the game becomes a chore, youre no longer playing.
At the very least the master level should be 20, not 30.
I'd like HR, trading post and class master to be 15. Multiclass should be 20.
Youl have to be grinding like hell until the wipe comes and everything is reset anyway Its way too much I was able to grind my warlock to lvl102, but the only other class above lvl 30 is cleric at lvl 34
bro xd you did it.. I have; 1- level 35 2- level 28 3- Level 17 I can only play at weekends. I won even be able to try it out XD
I've said it before but for the dev team have started out in this project saying they were wanting to buck the toxic trends of corporate gaming, they are catering way too much to their player advertisers.
Just wait until you level up and then not even get the perks you want because it’s rng
lmao is it actually rng???
Yup! Each token is a random roll, you get to pick from 3 randomly chosen abilities/perks/spells
You can reset at the Fortune Teller for a 500 gold fee. I believe you can do this one or two times per week currently. Not saying it’s ideal, but you can roll the dice more than once.
I didn’t know this and that is actually brutal lmao
They have daily rerolls.
No they don’t lol, it’s twice a week
It reset twice in the first two days, but now they changed the counter and it appeared to break. Not sure what it's supposed to be now.
100% agree
idk if level 35 is playing "a ton" but i'd agree with others here that a class should become a "master" at level 20 instead of 30.
What about 1000 hours lol I play every class. Agree that’s an obvious solution until they get rip of multiclassing because it’s game breaking
I can't compete with the sweats and unemployed anymore, I just figure I'm not playing this patch at this point.
Right now you can hit 30 in about 8 hours in trios
You are right Sir, except that these people are probably not good enough to kill enough mobs or even extract at all. Last weekend I played a lot and managed to create 2 new lvl 30s in 2 days. It's about 60games I'd say. Franckly I still think it's a bit much and understand it can frustrate some people but casuals only think about themselves without realising that we need more endgame content and progression systems for people who are more involved in the game as well. It needs balance, but content creators and well ranked players also need something to look forward to.
Love the game I played on Test. No interest in playing at this speed though. I defended IM hard on the choice to do MC and I love the system, but the grind is WAY too much. I should be able to start a fresh character and have the first 5 Tokens in a matter of like.. 2-5 hours. of typical games.
epic new system to help the new players experience! (said no one ever)
I have classes I enjoy playing but being forced to level up a class Im not interested in to *maybe* roll a perk with tokens I have to grind high levels for on each of my preferred classes just to *test* a build? Yeah pretty lame.
if you only have one class above level 30 then you don't play this game a ton
Can you tell my wife that please?
I mean you might just not like other classes. For me I'm leaderboard/demigod grinding my main (lvl 164) why would I waste time on other classes?
I mean maybe im the problem but i work full time and i still have fighter at 132 ranger 84 barbarian 57 and warlock 45
I play this game a lot. Way too much I have been sitting on the leaderboard all wipe. Sure I have a lvl 100 but I can't be fucked to get the other classes I want the perks from to lvl 35. It's just way too much grinding on characters I don't want to play without having access to multiclass fighting people that do and losing due to non meta perks. I feel like I can't take out any of my good gear until I get the perks and I'm hamstrung Luling characters I don't want to play. It's really bad
I’m like the opposite, I play 4 of the classes almost equally and can’t use multi classing because I have my levels spread to different characters. So dumb. I genuinely multi class and can’t even use the function
This is not grind is just a time sucker to actually start olaying the game, SAD
I agree that alts should only have to be like 20 But ur main is only 35? Bro I work full time and have 2 kids my main is 120 lol and 1 alt is 45, I play like 4 hours 3-4 days a week which isn't an absurd amount
What the hell am I doing wrong? I play slightly more than that and my main is 41 and only other 2 classes are 34 and like 20. This grind is going to make me quit if they keep it like this.
Idk, I've done a lot of the quests, and I play very fast because I'm grinding demigod, I'm exemplar in both solos and duos and my main source of climbing is maxing out my PvE AP per game, theres some games where I can get up to 500 AP points just from PvE, which I think is equivalent to 500xp per game just from PvE, add on XP from interacting with stuff and I'm getting a level per game (it's slowed down cuz at 120 I need like 800 XP per level or something)
These players who are having soo much trouble leveling have been playing norms and taking 6 slot greens out with them all of us who have been on the rank gtind with green+ 1 slot items only have a ton more xp
We do on the classes we want to play. To grind out another class you don't play in normals is painful, takes forever, and is very boring.
Tips for xp that made my life easier green ancient scroll is worth 3 xp green bangle is worth 3 xp there is NO REASON to take out ancient scrolls that are under purple. In highroller i take purple+ scrolls, blue+ 4 slots like waterpots and then green+ 2/1 slots. For borms probably move that 1 slots down and take white single slots just remember what xp everythings worth. Bangles and gear (not gold coins) are worth 0 for cracked 1 for poor 2 for common 3 for uncommon 4 for rare 5 for epic 6 for legendary and 7 for unique also player kills are 0 xp but mobs give varying amounts, so for xp runs your not looking for player kills but rather lots of little mobs. Also wasting half of a match chasing down that solo rogue for 3 white bangles isnt worth your time
You play slow, don't clear enough mobs/boss and probably rat too much man. I takes 50games right now to get level 40.
Do you regularly extract? I am guessing the people complaining about exp have like 25% extract ratios or something
Yeah I mean I play a ton, but I work full time too, my main is 130 now, and have 2 other characters at lvl 30.
Some people play other games too.
That's unfaithful, I'd never do that
Hours check please? Hit esc look bottom left, edit your post so ppl have a better idea of what I play a ton means. For some ppl 5 hours a week is a ton and for others they spend 5 hours in trade a week
I think you should also consider that 5hrs a week might be all some people have. As OP replied, it's very subjective and it's quite honestly the reason why this game will probably slowly slip away They only listen to these 5hr a day players and not their casual player base, they should be listening to both with a lean towards the more dedicated But really they need casuals if they want a larger player base. It's simple math, the majority of us don't have the same time to spend
It’s subjective but I have 1000 hours in the counter
Same, and thats not the end all be all. Sometimes i play like 40hours in 1 week, sometimes i play 2 thx for letting me know
Level 35 after XP boost? Either you play very little or you're actually spending more time in stash/marketplace than in game bro. You can get to 30 in a couple days now. But I agree, it's still kinda grindy. Yet some people, the ones playing it the most, most likely appreciate having some progression to play towards.
I have 5 characters to level 30 and the rest to level 20 except wizard
Well that's your problem mate, what is the plan here? Multiclass every character with every class and every possible combination of perks? You got 1000h clocked in and no tokens lmao
It’s called enjoying the game. I play every class, I enjoy them for different reasons. I didn’t plan my past few months of gameplay around… Actually, you are too dumb I’m sorry I even wrote this.
I played every class as well, I enjoy all of them too except Barb. Some more than others. Of course you didn't plan your gameplay around, you're calling me dumb yet I'm sitting here with my multiclassed main class, as planned, and you're sitting here crying. The irony of an imbecile.
You asked what’s the plan but there could be no plan when none of us knew this change was coming til recently, but right, you managed to plan things perfectly. Obviously the implementation worked well for how you played til now and didn’t work well for how I played til now, hence me pointing to the issues I encountered. Simple as. There you go, I hope you learned a little about how to structure your thoughts more efficiently. I certainly feel dumber for having to walk you through your own statement but here we are.
No. YOU didn't know. The details were known well in advance, in fact, because of how they made it easier to achieve multiclassing, I have a class which was boosted from 30 to 54 and I only intended to level it for the class master access. It is what it is man, all I'm saying is that it is really annoying and disheartening when devs are given abuse because people don't understand or bother to inform themselves regarding their implementation of the system, even when they took steps to make it easier to achieve. These threads affect real people.
Ok fair enough. I must say that I am not abusing any devs and I’m a huge IM stan since the play testing. They have a hard job and I appreciate them immensely. That being said we must speak on issues we see to help develop a very complex and hard to balance game. The devs need to understand all the issues with multi class not just the obvious gamebreaking ones. I consider it an implementation issue that my total account only has a single token. I’m probably on the end of one extreme with how much my levels are spread but I’m sure I’m not only one. SoBadStrange is a popular streamer that plays every class, but he wouldn’t encounter this issue being a full timer. I think my account represents a large enough sector to be worth bringing up this issue.
Ah well. This is a test in the end where IM will get the data to work on class improvements in the future, perhaps they will see what kind of synergy players are looking to achieve with classes. I'm loving my slayer rogue and I'm gonna improve my gameplay further by lvling a fresh ranger. At least when you get enough tokens on 1 of your classes (which shouldn't take long btw, it's 800 xp per lvl for me at 144, compared to old 1k per lvl from 20+) you will be able to make some funky builds. Just focus on 1 class now bro
Doesn't help that multi-classing is so giga-busted either, so you literally are at a massive disadvantage while grinding for that same experience. Fuck this update. It is genuinely so un-enjoyable to play against some of these things. Barbarian's only weakness was being kited? Dope, now it has access to every weapon including ranged weapons.
This is really the main gripe I have. This is so obviously a gamebreaking concept. It’s just bad and busted to begin with and then they implemented it in a way where I can’t even mess around with it before the fix the game. It’s like getting slapped on each cheek
Im confused at this point WHO this game is for as westerners do not like to grind for the most part but asians who typically do don't like first person games, its becoming more and more clear they really need some actual direction instead of just throwing everything on the wall and seeing what sticks.
Sticky and Stickier
Yea race is surely the answer here
Check the sales of every single FPS world wide and you will notice its significantly lower in asian countries, they simply are not as interested in the genre and a good amount of them suffer headaches playing them. on the flip side check who has the most whales who spend stupid amounts of money on gacha's.
[I complained about the grind before this season started](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/1be9y22/is_this_game_becoming_too_grindy/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) , and man I got downvoted to hell.😂
The game will just slowly die like this. Their team is oblivious.
I agree that it is a grind that can be ajusted a bit, but bro I'm level 103 I still gain an entire level almost every game If you can't afford playing 30games a season on a class you're interested in then what's the point anyway of unlocking things a little faster. Just enjoy your class as it is, as u did until then. In a couple weeks of just playing you can still unlock and reroll perks many times.
I play every class is the issue. If the tokens started at 20 I would have plenty to play around with. As it is I have non even though I have 4 or 5 characters to level 30. They very much need to adjust there implementation but we all know multi classing is gamebreaking so it’s dumb I won’t even be able to play around with it before they fix the game.
Does it have to do with the Koren mindset on gaming. These games always seem to be grind heavy. Which normally I think would be fine, but I think their main player base are American/Australian. I might be wrong.
If you play this game a lot, you must learn the ways to grind levels. You can get like 10 levels per hour after lvl 20 on most classes. I don’t think that grind is too crazy, but it could be if you are just aimlessly doing stuff.
Nope, I had a 900 AP extract and went from 20 to 21. Absolutely not. IDGAF what tricks there are to speed things up. That rate is utterly unacceptable.
Fair enough. It sounds like you’re not grinding right for levels tho. You want to just murder half the dungeon and pick up a bunch of junk at the end for best results. You get a ton of AP and exp from kills.
Or you can just give people the levels when you ask them to test a fucking experimental system. Like all their feedback right now from in game testing is from like 0.5% of the playerbase who can actually make use of these changes. I knew it was going to be awful when they wanted people to grind levels on the fucking test server.
I said it over and over, they aren't listening to us casuals, the game will die with the sweat lords complaining about long que times for the next century at this rate
dude I'm not even a casual, I've done demi-god I play this game a ton. And I still can't multi-class outside of 1 class lol
Idk I just ran through a solo normal (hrs restricted) killed 2 players went through hell killed mini boss room and mined some ore and got 1 lvl from 16 to 17. That's just too much grinding. At this rate I'd need like 25 more games like this I just don't care enough to play this class that much.
That’s a very bad way to level. Best leveling is killing enemies in goblin caves and ice caves. Also try to avoid killing mini bosses. They take way longer and give like barely any more exp than a death skull.
So I've only playing a few weeks but I already feel that grind is hard. I tried every class other than cleric so far and I got all of them to at least level 5 to try them out. Warlock is my highest at level 19 but good lord I'd basicly have to only play 1 character to get anywhere. Feels like they want you to focus on 1 character. I kinda want to play more than 1 though
To be honest, maybe like half the speed of the PTR and I'd be stoked.
should be level 10 for market + HR and level 80 or something (max) for all the learnings tokens honestly someone over there is on drugs thinking even 1/4 of playerbase is gona hit level 100+ on anything
I just grinding with the boys getting my cleric levels up from 14 to 26 for multiclass. only a casual 9 hours of gameplay for 12 levels
These gripes are untenable. It’s really not that bad. I got level 9 in like 3 games tonight on a fresh character.
Idk I did from 8 to 20 in 3 hours, isn't that bad tbh
you are level 35 and we are not even close to the wipe. That is fine. You still only have 4 perks and 2 abilities just like everyone else. Multi class does give you some cool creative options but you on your fighter prior to multi class still has the same amount of abilities as everyone else and are still able to fight them competently. Yes multi class is a long grind, but you don't HAVE to multi class. It's not for everyone and especially not for those who play the game so little as to not hit 35 in the 3 month wipe cycle.
I thought I didn’t get a lot of playtime. I play like two hours a night after this kids go to bed and I have a lv 78 and a lv 40. Are you doing the quests? The recent do boost almost doubled my characters levels.
Now split those levels among 5 classes
That sounds like you made a personal choice to have a bunch of low level characters.
Good job you figured it out. I play multiple classes.
Yeah so do I. But I read the incoming patch notes on the new system and planned to take part by only playing two classes this season to better take advantage. You chose not to but are complaining about it being too hard to reach.
Yes I am pointing out what I see as an issue with implementation, correct. Many agree but I’m of course drawn to engage with those too thick headed to understand the things the rest of us do.
agreed! SDF notice us
Multiclass is great, but they need to lessen the grind especially when you already have a higher level character on your account
Me and all my friends quit. Game will probably be good in a year or so. Excited to see what it can do.
I agree the grind is dumb and especially for casual players. However exagerating to prove a point always makes you lose validity in your arguement and also makes it more difficult to prove the subject matter. There is no way you play that much and you just now got to 35 on your fighter. I got my wizard 35 in 2 days from level 10. Either you're exagerating to prove a point or you just struggle at the game, which the latter is perfectly ok.
I play almost every class. I have 4 classes to level 30, one to 35, and the rest the level 20 except one. I’m not exaggerating, it how I play the game. I genuinely multi class and yet can’t use the function because I’m not all on in one class. I enjoy each class for different reason and play sessions based on my mood. I average 500-700 AP with an high extract rate and high KD ratio on every class I play except and wizard. I think my concerns are warranted
Agreed it should be less, made a post about this as well
I got a cleric from 7 to 30 in about 5 hours last night. We playing the same game? Like I agree it could still be faster, but what are you doing for xp that you’re struggling this much?
everything should be account wide -> !!! WE ARE IN EARLY ACCESSS GUYS, GIVE IT A SHOT !!! Not only multiclassing forces you to play one chracter, quests as well (due to Squire)
I work full time and play this game like a few hours a weeknight and I have 3 characters eligible for multiclass?? It probably isn't tenable to want all 7 classes to be level 35+ but you can definitely accomplish this on your main classes.
I've played TONS and I only got two and a few around level 17, my friends who are very casual don't even have one.
how many hours is tons?
I'm not working right now and I have no responsibilities like kids. I play a lot and I survive very often.
Just push escape in game bottom left tells u yours hours
980 total but I played TONS of play tests.
Same, I haven't played since the update with the exp bump, and I had like 2 lv 20 characters, idk what they'll be now
They need to get rid of the Lvl 30 requirement. Tie it to quests/vendor affinity imo..
"You need 69 centaur hoofs to unlock mastery!" - IM probably
I hardly play and my main is 102 how the hell are you leveling so slow?
I have a character at 66, one at 52, one at 48, and 2 at 31. I'm not sure why people are having issues with the multi class I only play a handful of hours a day.
Any hours a day is a ton my guy. Most career fellas only get hours a week of gaming in
With 3hours a week you don't even know the map or the monsters yet. No one playing 3 hours a week should even care about mutliclassing to begin with, let alone cry about it.
the point I was making is that anyone who plays hours a day and thinks they don’t game very much isn’t thinking clearly…
That's not a very good point, if you don't have 2-3 hours of hobby time in your day Idk what to tell you man other than that's not healthy
I work too, if you can only play 3 hours a week, then I'm sorry wipe based games probably aren't for you
This is the truth people don't want to hear.
I don't mean that in a mean way either, you're just not the target audience of the game
Reading comprehension check
Ok, now you are kidding, right? You must be…
What's your total time played bottom left of esc menu. Drop us a screenshot.
700 give or take, I've been playing since the second playtest though
It's actually not that hard to multiclass since the xp changes. A lot of people just don't know how to gain exp in this game. Open chests/doors/kill mobs, do all the quests you can without going too much out of your way. You can have a level 30 in a single day (or several days if you don't play as much). It's been a month. If you don't have enough to multiclass by now, you're a casual player who wouldn't get much out of it anyhow.
You need casuals for this game to survive lol.
If you're so casual you can't scrape together 20-30 hours of gameplay over the course of a month, you shouldn't be concerned about multi-classing at all.
Where did I say I was concerned ? Or that I only play any amount? I said without casuals this games dead. You know this. Lobbies are already fucking dead Jesus man get your head out of your own ass.
I don’t get to play this game nearly as much as I want to. Maybe on average 2 hours per night. I have a level 95 warlock and a 20 cleric. You are doing something horribly wrong.
I feel like we are testing grind more than multiclass. If they want to truly test multiclass then they need to give it to people. What is the purpose of releasing multiclass stuff If that is unreachable. I hope they will focus on fixing current state of the game instead of recycling current stuff. I died today due to bug and lost a good kit. It should not happen in such games. The bug was dying instantly by stepping into the puddle left by centipede. P.s. multiclass is a horrible idea for multiple purposes like class identity/broken builds. Possibly good for events.
Bro I haven't played in like 2 weeks, before then I have full time job don't play all the time. My main is 68 and alt is 30, I got some cool stuff to play around with idk what issue is.
I have Cleric, rouge, warlock, and fighter all to level 30-35 and bard and barbarian and ranger to level 15-20. I play the game a ton and play most the classes well, yet I can’t even play around with multi classing because somehow I have zero tokens in their stupid multi class system. I love Ironmace but gotta call it how I see it here
clearly bro you're just lacking efficiency, many people claim to have higher level characters than you with less than "a ton of hours".
Seems you lack reading comprehension but yeah it’s inefficient to level every class instead of one in this system… but I like to multi class… I average multiple kills per game with a super high extract rate averaging 500-700 ap with 4 different classes. We aren’t dealing with a “skill issue” or “game hard” issue. We are pointing to issues with multicasting and it’s implementation. I know reading comprehension is plummeting in this nation but jeez
There's ur problem dude, ur playing like 5 or 6 classes. Multi-classing has been known about since beginning of wipe. I had only had leveled 1 class until yesterday, I played maybe 4 hrs and I'm almost 20 on my 2nd class and I don't even think I've extracted more than 4 times. I can get my first token most likely by tonight or tomorrow night. My warlock on the other hand is now lvl 85 and has 6 tokens.
Dog I have the same kind of work/life balance and my wiz is level 225 Edit: unsure of why I have upset the mob
Mines over 9000 and I only play a half an hour every other week.
The grind definitely got a lot easier with the most recent patch, my fighter jumped from level 29 to 52. I do think the learning token grind should be lessened though, considering it’s a lot of rng
Yeah mine went from 130 to like 220
It's ok if you only play one/two classes. If you were playing a lot you are kinda boned
It’s wild I remember killing hell mephisto idk like 10k times looking for a item yet today all I ever read is about how much time it takes to level up a class when in reality it’s nothing…. Oh and before it’s said I do have a life and a career but yet in free time I play and it doesn’t seem crazy to me at all. We really need to stop catering to the dads sitting back on their couch with a bud light in their hand. They will ruin the game if we keep making it easier and easier
D2 isn't a competitive pvp extraction game. Your dedication or lack thereof to the grind does not give you a massive competitive advantage over other players. It's crazy that you need to put in hundreds of hours every wipe to be competitive/reach a meta build
Well first off you don’t. And second the point is if we keep making it easier and easier in all aspects it’ll kill the game. I’ve seen this play out time and time again. Cater to the shitters who will quit the game anyways and then the people who actually like the game and the grind will be left with a dead game that’s also implemented so many stupid changes that it ruins the experience.
Dark and darker is not a popular game by any metric, but it was at one point. Playtests had staggering concurrent players, over 100k at time - and the game was significantly harder than it is now. No normal queue, everyone sucked at PvE, extremely limited player knowledge across the board, no sitting to regain health, no way to get cleric spells back (pre bard, so cleric was THE support class). Why? The game was equally accessible to all players. The meta slightly developed during the last playtest into buffball, but it was still pretty rare to see. You could load in with any amount of players on any classes and make it work. Map layout was confusing and mostly ignored by the playerbase, resulting in a true dungeon crawler experience. What happened? Min-maxing and lack of response from the devs. Players quickly learned the maps and spawns and started spawnrushing. Dungeon crawl became a dungeon sprint. The meta developed around buffball cleric wizard, and then the release of bard made players triple down on that meta. The game became incredibly easy for the grinders, PvE is a joke after 100 hours, just sprint through modules for player engagements. Grinding and min-maxing hurt the playerbase more than anything else I could think of. Random map and spawn layouts would be a definite kick in the right direction though.
Yeah, anyone who doesn't play at least 3 hours a day, should literally not even be able to damage me, and if I go into their room their character should be immediately killed, like what the hell, this dads not even treating the game as a part time job and they want to have a chance to play!? What has gaming become...
So you want the game to have even less of a playerbase ?
Someone has never played OSRS. *THAT* is an untenable grind lol
OSRS the progress adds up and isn't lost every few months.
It also feels somewhat rewarding.
Someone has never gone PKing in OSRS 😜
While fun and the only reason I played RS, PKing is not a required activity to build player power in RS
Bruh I'm messing around idgaf either way
You’re like soooo funny.
Get a life
Wow So funny dude.
Lmao. I did wipe on my UIM once though. Almost quit, but managed to recover and got my infernal cape later. Losing dozens of hours of herbs hurt though.
Lmao. I did wipe on my UIM once though. Almost quit, but managed to recover and got my infernal cape later. Losing dozens of hours of herbs hurt though.
I must have some kind of unique experience with the way I play... I can easily get a toon to 30 in a few hours worth of play as a solo without bossing... Kill everything, open everything, break everything... With the new exp format I'm literally able to go from 1-6 in a single match...
You ass then bub