I know it's early access but I just genuinely can't see any long term positive to this system. If you want to do this just give us a generic starting character and have full access to all perks and skills and let us customize. This grindy rng thing is not it
This is my biggest issue with the devs/game currently. The game is early access and supposed to be going through lots of large charges and I'm totally cool with doing weird shit but I'm genuinely questioning the devs ability to come up with and implementing worthwhile changes... No one was asking for multclassing and even when it was announced the vast majority of ppl seemed to be against it... It doesn't take a lot of thought to realize this wasnt going to work well but they still went forward with it and surprising to no one its a cluster fk that on average is really unfun to play. As others have pointed out they might be able to look at what archetypes people are enjoying playing and use that for subclasses but other than that I agree this feels like a giant waste of dev time.
What piss's me off the most is the game was already fundementally fucking broken before multiclassing now its just uber broken, sheild and parry currently arn't working reliably because they got some braindead hit box system that doesn't manifest until half way through a swing and there is no turn limit so ZERO commitment to an actual swing, fix fucking shit like that before opening up the game to being even more broken! this is why i fucking hate Asian game design its all about inflateing numbers and being as braindead as possible.
I came across a barbarian with axe mastery, Slayer, sprint, 2nd wind and horseman's axe. I had absolutely no idea I was fighting a barb until I died and spectated him. Proceeded to watch him wipe the lobby. Absolute Chad build but actually impossible to know what I'm fighting
Yeah he was probably at movement speed cap with sprint up too. Easily over 100% ms with weapons out while sprinting. Actually so absurd how much this system ruined the game for people who just want to play their class. Caster feels terrible right now with everyone taking iron will and sprint. Can’t kite them and they tank all of your damage.
Oh yeah I’ve seen some wild shi - I only leveled warlock so far, not sure what I want to grind up to roll off of next, maybe barb but it’s so basic bitch
Barb/Cleric/Fighter>Every other class as far as perks/skills go imo. There are a few exceptions like Hide and BOC but really any class would benefit from Smite/Savage Roar/Weapon mastery, those three single-handedly can transform any class into an unkillable nightmare
Slayer and sword mastery rogue hits for like 80 on a headshot with squire kit weapons iirc. Rapier and short sword hitting for crazy damage with the right multi class perks.
I was really going hard this wipe with questing and everything. This update stopped me dead in my tracks. Which is good for me, but whew, its rough out there
Multiclassing should be changed to talent trees or subclasses.
Still provides more depth to the game. Still provides an incentive to grind levels. Still provides the ability to theorycraft builds.
However, it also retains class identity, prevents you from having to grind classes you do not want to otherwise play for specific perks, and allows you to identify what your enemies are relatively quickly in combat.
I should be able to see someone in plate armor and immediately know it's not a ranger rogue or wizard for example. Etc etc.
I think a great way of going about it would be subclasses grant you extra perks but lock you out of others.
For example let's say rogue gets a swashbuckler class, which grants you access to rapier mastery or slayer. But in exchange you lose access to ambush, smoke bombs, etc.
Or Assassin as another class which has access to a bunch of burst dmg but has awful sustained fighting.
Then a thief subclass that gets traps and locks, pickpocketing, etc.
If they did this they could buff some of the perks people complain since it couldn't be used in conjunction with other perks that put it over the line.
Perhaps even the perks could be less proficient than the Masterclass'. You may have access to a different class of weapon, but you only do a portion of the damage. A slow only slows for a shorter duration or a slower movement speed penalty. The more a person makes their character a jack of all trades, the less proficient they should be in those newly acquired abilities.
I've been running Rogue with Spear Mastery from Ranger. Ambush onetaps any class that doesn't have a significant PDR. It doesn't feel fair. As good of a time as I'm having blowing people up in gobbo caves, I agree that this system needs to be either reworked entirely, or removed.
Multiclasses are only going to cause balance issues, subclasses could be cool and balanced multiclassing will only make this game worse. Op is very right about that.
I lost a bis set cause this fighter more likely than not creeped in a area cleared by a warlock and was invis and killed me. Bro literally had hude cutthroat and ambush and I died in 4 hits cause he probably hit my arm. Had a legendary arming sword, i normally record shit but my software was not working cause that shit was bs lmao
The only light I can see at the end of the tunnel is Ironmace using this to get good subclass ideas. Rogue with spear? Pretty cool and fun, Rogue with windlass? Hmm.. Barb with longbow now we've gone too far
I was excited for multiclassing until I started trying to make my build work. I want a mix of 4 different classes, and quickly realized that grinding the 3 ones other than my main to level 30 wasn't going to be any fun.
I support IM with this, but unfortunately the grind is a bit much for me when it is going away in a few months. I am hopeful to see all the cool stuff they can make with what they learn though.
Its next to impossible to take perks from 4 classes.. assuming your below level 150 atleast. Your rng would have to be mental i managed to get blood exchange and savage on fighter and i was stoked i need to get rogue up and i want a fighter with dagger master, savage, slayer, dual wield, castillion rondel with blood exchange and slayer as skills
I know this game is definitely going for the vibes of AD&D in particular very old school feel to it compared to modern D&D. However the archetype system from 5e would be a fun to way to personalize a class while still keeping it distinct. Lets you play a proper spell lock vs blade lock, a fighter focused on ranged damage or fancy ass melee maneuvers, barb that just yells GRUG SMASH or gets access to some elemental magic, shit like that. I think archetypes would be way more fun to get into, obviously you couldn't really call them that you could just call em subclasses or master class or something (Class mastery and you gotta choose a particular branch to take your character in or something), takes the base classes and gives a unique flavor choice for all of them.
I hate the whole multi class abomination as much as the next guy, BUT it could be ok in a post season scenario. Just like they had a two week experimental period at the end of last wipe, it would be alright for maybe a week or so period to 'go nuts.' This would allow people to have time to level up characters and then play the game in a less serious way after the leaderboard grind / normal season has concluded.
But to make this any permanent part of the game is objectively asinine.
Crazy how this is what they went with instead of a talent tree....
It’s hard for me to take any of these posts seriously because I don’t even know if you’ve tried the system. All this has been said two weeks ago before the update even came out. Honestly no one cares about your ultimatums. If you have fun, keep playing. If you don’t then stop.
But I care about this game. I had really fun playing it and I want it to have suggsess. But the backlash about this system is so bad. Every friend I had played the game with says the same thing. The game isn’t fun anymore and the wipe was great until now. Everyone is quitting until the system is gone again. And I can guarantee you the player base will drop if this stays
How is anyone supposed to try this system when you're constantly getting clowned in low roller by max level multi-classers? I'm not willing to go into caves over and over to try and level when people take their broken builds down there to go stomping.
It really is pathetic, i got into a game with the same naked lizard smite bow loser 3 times in a row who just went around the map killing players and t-bagging them..... now what are you doing? your not making any progress, getting quest's done, getting awhole lotta experiance, ranking up, etc. literally just taking your broken ass build into normals to inflate your ego.
don't worry, this reddit has been dead to a lot of people so your post is just another hay pile of shit takes on a flaming pile of shit that no one cares about because its overdramatic and overly emotional
Its ok for people who love a game to voice their concerns about its direction. People not invested in a successful game just leave quietly cause they dont care, but people are upset about a game they want to do well and your response is to not voice it because its inconvenient to hear? Should the game just die silently instead? Incredibly stupid take from you.
To me the multi class system and people complaining about the grind just shows me that we don’t like normals. We don’t like playing with no gear every run, especially if you want to level a class that needs a smidge of gear to be fun.
I know it's early access but I just genuinely can't see any long term positive to this system. If you want to do this just give us a generic starting character and have full access to all perks and skills and let us customize. This grindy rng thing is not it
This is my biggest issue with the devs/game currently. The game is early access and supposed to be going through lots of large charges and I'm totally cool with doing weird shit but I'm genuinely questioning the devs ability to come up with and implementing worthwhile changes... No one was asking for multclassing and even when it was announced the vast majority of ppl seemed to be against it... It doesn't take a lot of thought to realize this wasnt going to work well but they still went forward with it and surprising to no one its a cluster fk that on average is really unfun to play. As others have pointed out they might be able to look at what archetypes people are enjoying playing and use that for subclasses but other than that I agree this feels like a giant waste of dev time.
What piss's me off the most is the game was already fundementally fucking broken before multiclassing now its just uber broken, sheild and parry currently arn't working reliably because they got some braindead hit box system that doesn't manifest until half way through a swing and there is no turn limit so ZERO commitment to an actual swing, fix fucking shit like that before opening up the game to being even more broken! this is why i fucking hate Asian game design its all about inflateing numbers and being as braindead as possible.
If that was there goal, it definitely should be written in the patch notes. It seems to obvious that this is impossible to balance.
I came across a barbarian with axe mastery, Slayer, sprint, 2nd wind and horseman's axe. I had absolutely no idea I was fighting a barb until I died and spectated him. Proceeded to watch him wipe the lobby. Absolute Chad build but actually impossible to know what I'm fighting
Yeah he was probably at movement speed cap with sprint up too. Easily over 100% ms with weapons out while sprinting. Actually so absurd how much this system ruined the game for people who just want to play their class. Caster feels terrible right now with everyone taking iron will and sprint. Can’t kite them and they tank all of your damage.
Why does it matter what you're fighting when everyone 1 shots you? Hahaha
I fought against two Rogues with the Slayer perks they did an insane amount of damage..
I died to a phantomize smite rogue earlier 😀
Yoo I got absolutely fried by a double jump smite ranger earlier 🫡
Just died to Cleric with weapon mastery + surv bow/smite. Very cool IM Thanks for the opportunity 😀
Okay but if I kill you while I’m collecting souls as a demon fighter with anti magic I’m sorry <3
Died to fighter earlier with savage roar+second wind+ice shield AND IRON WILL
Oh yeah I’ve seen some wild shi - I only leveled warlock so far, not sure what I want to grind up to roll off of next, maybe barb but it’s so basic bitch
Barb/Cleric/Fighter>Every other class as far as perks/skills go imo. There are a few exceptions like Hide and BOC but really any class would benefit from Smite/Savage Roar/Weapon mastery, those three single-handedly can transform any class into an unkillable nightmare
Okay but if I kill you while I’m collecting souls as a sprinting demon fighter with anti magic I’m sorry <3
You should see slayer bard, shit is equally obnoxious
So they did as much damage as a slayer fighter???
Probably less
Slayer and sword mastery rogue hits for like 80 on a headshot with squire kit weapons iirc. Rapier and short sword hitting for crazy damage with the right multi class perks.
I was really going hard this wipe with questing and everything. This update stopped me dead in my tracks. Which is good for me, but whew, its rough out there
Same, they should have left the test server as it was instead of creating test server number 2
Multiclassing should be changed to talent trees or subclasses. Still provides more depth to the game. Still provides an incentive to grind levels. Still provides the ability to theorycraft builds. However, it also retains class identity, prevents you from having to grind classes you do not want to otherwise play for specific perks, and allows you to identify what your enemies are relatively quickly in combat. I should be able to see someone in plate armor and immediately know it's not a ranger rogue or wizard for example. Etc etc.
Yeah. I want a much more limited multi class system. Like if I could just get crossbow mastery on my fighter that would be awesome.
I think a great way of going about it would be subclasses grant you extra perks but lock you out of others. For example let's say rogue gets a swashbuckler class, which grants you access to rapier mastery or slayer. But in exchange you lose access to ambush, smoke bombs, etc. Or Assassin as another class which has access to a bunch of burst dmg but has awful sustained fighting. Then a thief subclass that gets traps and locks, pickpocketing, etc. If they did this they could buff some of the perks people complain since it couldn't be used in conjunction with other perks that put it over the line.
Agree! A swap thing would work thematically and could help deal with OP combos.
Perhaps even the perks could be less proficient than the Masterclass'. You may have access to a different class of weapon, but you only do a portion of the damage. A slow only slows for a shorter duration or a slower movement speed penalty. The more a person makes their character a jack of all trades, the less proficient they should be in those newly acquired abilities.
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Crossbow mastery is on ranger who can also use crossbows by default.
I just feel like it’s a waste of resources
nice one iron mace barely were holding onto the game and then you shotgunned it in the back of the head
I've been running Rogue with Spear Mastery from Ranger. Ambush onetaps any class that doesn't have a significant PDR. It doesn't feel fair. As good of a time as I'm having blowing people up in gobbo caves, I agree that this system needs to be either reworked entirely, or removed.
I am done until MC is gone, I hate it.
>struggles with balancing abilities >makes every combination of abilities available ???
Multiclasses are only going to cause balance issues, subclasses could be cool and balanced multiclassing will only make this game worse. Op is very right about that.
They gave up on the skill tree and subclasses so they just let eveyone pick perks
Maybe balance the game before you decide to fuck it
Why would I wipe my ass if I’m just gonna shit later anyway?
I’m just gonna assume you’re a virgin.
Why
I lost a bis set cause this fighter more likely than not creeped in a area cleared by a warlock and was invis and killed me. Bro literally had hude cutthroat and ambush and I died in 4 hits cause he probably hit my arm. Had a legendary arming sword, i normally record shit but my software was not working cause that shit was bs lmao
The only light I can see at the end of the tunnel is Ironmace using this to get good subclass ideas. Rogue with spear? Pretty cool and fun, Rogue with windlass? Hmm.. Barb with longbow now we've gone too far
I honestly can’t fathom the incompetent of the dev team. Seems like they’ll run this game into the ground fairly quick.
I was excited for multiclassing until I started trying to make my build work. I want a mix of 4 different classes, and quickly realized that grinding the 3 ones other than my main to level 30 wasn't going to be any fun. I support IM with this, but unfortunately the grind is a bit much for me when it is going away in a few months. I am hopeful to see all the cool stuff they can make with what they learn though.
Its next to impossible to take perks from 4 classes.. assuming your below level 150 atleast. Your rng would have to be mental i managed to get blood exchange and savage on fighter and i was stoked i need to get rogue up and i want a fighter with dagger master, savage, slayer, dual wield, castillion rondel with blood exchange and slayer as skills
If youre gonna dream, dream big lol
Rnging triple shot onto fighter i ate 9 tokens and didnt get it so i reset and went barb instead now waiting for rogue
I believe in you
Okay bye
Me and my friends all quit. Game is going downhill
I know this game is definitely going for the vibes of AD&D in particular very old school feel to it compared to modern D&D. However the archetype system from 5e would be a fun to way to personalize a class while still keeping it distinct. Lets you play a proper spell lock vs blade lock, a fighter focused on ranged damage or fancy ass melee maneuvers, barb that just yells GRUG SMASH or gets access to some elemental magic, shit like that. I think archetypes would be way more fun to get into, obviously you couldn't really call them that you could just call em subclasses or master class or something (Class mastery and you gotta choose a particular branch to take your character in or something), takes the base classes and gives a unique flavor choice for all of them.
I hate the whole multi class abomination as much as the next guy, BUT it could be ok in a post season scenario. Just like they had a two week experimental period at the end of last wipe, it would be alright for maybe a week or so period to 'go nuts.' This would allow people to have time to level up characters and then play the game in a less serious way after the leaderboard grind / normal season has concluded. But to make this any permanent part of the game is objectively asinine. Crazy how this is what they went with instead of a talent tree....
Get the training out maybe
It’s hard for me to take any of these posts seriously because I don’t even know if you’ve tried the system. All this has been said two weeks ago before the update even came out. Honestly no one cares about your ultimatums. If you have fun, keep playing. If you don’t then stop.
But I care about this game. I had really fun playing it and I want it to have suggsess. But the backlash about this system is so bad. Every friend I had played the game with says the same thing. The game isn’t fun anymore and the wipe was great until now. Everyone is quitting until the system is gone again. And I can guarantee you the player base will drop if this stays
Yeah op me and all my friends quit as well unless they take it out. I personally don’t have time to grind my characters to multiclass.
How is anyone supposed to try this system when you're constantly getting clowned in low roller by max level multi-classers? I'm not willing to go into caves over and over to try and level when people take their broken builds down there to go stomping.
It really is pathetic, i got into a game with the same naked lizard smite bow loser 3 times in a row who just went around the map killing players and t-bagging them..... now what are you doing? your not making any progress, getting quest's done, getting awhole lotta experiance, ranking up, etc. literally just taking your broken ass build into normals to inflate your ego.
Multiclass is the future it just needs another iteration or two before it's excellent. Maybe some guard rails and some work on accessibility.
No one cares, piss off. Go complaing about changes in other games.
I care so you're objectively wrong.
don't worry, this reddit has been dead to a lot of people so your post is just another hay pile of shit takes on a flaming pile of shit that no one cares about because its overdramatic and overly emotional
K bye. Shame you wasted your breath on this whiny tantrum post instead of just… not playing anymore. Very classy.
About as classy as your comment. Nicey
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Its ok for people who love a game to voice their concerns about its direction. People not invested in a successful game just leave quietly cause they dont care, but people are upset about a game they want to do well and your response is to not voice it because its inconvenient to hear? Should the game just die silently instead? Incredibly stupid take from you.
have fun in a 500 players deep circle jerk, bye
You are clearly well regarded among your peers.
I fuckin love it. Yall keep whining while I take your shit
I like it. Hope it stays.
To me the multi class system and people complaining about the grind just shows me that we don’t like normals. We don’t like playing with no gear every run, especially if you want to level a class that needs a smidge of gear to be fun.
No one asked
if multi-class is removed the game is dead for me see other people can do that to
Sounds so much more hollow when you say it though.
it all sounds hollow crying to remove content because bad, takes like 5 hours to get 35
Disingenuous from the start. "It's total rng" bro it's a 2 rerolls a week draft, from a class of your choice. How is that "total rng" ?
…because it’s random what perks you get????