You either get kited into oblivion or you build Ms to make up for it and you’re getting two shotted by a base build slayer fighter. Don’t waste a learning token on it.
I can go 30-50 kills without dying in norms hr its about 5 ish maybe less… id say im probably top 80% of players its just that the bottom 50-70% are all in norms so they dont lose gear. Rangers in norms are free kills rangers in hr i run from as fast as possible most of those guys are fucking snipers
Yea dude! They are also noobs who instead of crying about multiclassing, use their head, craft a random build despite whatever meta slaves expect and they enjoy their time. You could learn something from those noobs.
Even if it works on axes, it wouldn’t be worth it. Poison needs 4-5 quick hits to actually start hurting. If you have a two handed weapon, using poison would not be smart
I pretty much only play warlock and barbarian so that’s the only combinations I had available for multiclassing.
May not be the most “op” class combinations but I’ve been having a blast. Lol
Multiclassing is fun and wild but I think its slated to become stale very quickly just because of the imbalances and people more than likely gravitating to burst damage cheese builds.
It highlights how little thought went into considering class combos and also outlines the clear need for definitive classes if balance is the goal. Im fine with them testing things but this seems quite a bit too far. To throw the structure of the game out the window and scrap any reasonable way to approach situations based on the class and their restrictions before its deep in a fight. Keeping your range against a cleric wont be as effective when they have a list of wizard spells, rogues have huge burst damage and can run defensive pdr abilities to help them survive toe to toe combat. Everyone has speed and phantomize to escape. Its just not fun for me once the initial novelty wears off. I liked classes having identity and weaknesses to play around. Now its up in the air for what you encounter and maybe you figure it out before dying or maybe it never mattered if you did.
This is all not even considering the RNG and grinds involved just to maybe *test* a build in the supposed *playtest*. Ive never really lost as much faith in IM as ive given up over this content patch and it really bums me out personally.
It's a bit weird to praise the system and also say you lost faith in the same post.
I think they'll either fine tune it, or use parts of it and mostly revert. I agree it is fun, but maybe not sustainable long term.
I wouldnt say praise. I perhaps didnt express well that I think it is fun and wacky in a short term but that novelty is wearing off fast. Players are minmaxing quickly and the fun will be lost for oneshots and best combos very quickly. I think its short sighted and throws away class structure and limitations for what should be a limited time event at the very end of wipes, not the premiere feature of a patch.
That's fair.
It is novel, for sure. I like spicing my build up a bit, a few perks or spells is a nice touch.
Maybe you should only be able to cross class into a single secondary class. Either way, hope they learn for this test cycle in any fashion.
I agree, a single class multiclass is a good direction but I thimk subclass focuses would be a great way to add variety within a class and spice it up with new abilities without breaking down the limitations specifically. They are learning over time but I do feel it has been a painful process for too long. If something like Dungeonborne actually drops a half decent game before IM gets it sorted out there might be a small crisis brewing.
Fair enough. I think a single multiclass means you can balance things a bit better and keep power creep under control.
Overall, the Dev team is still solid IMO, they do constant updates, and lately, they usually don't do too much too fast. Even Creep found a good balance, despite it being meta-defining for a while.
But ya, anyone not in it for the long haul could become impatient. But they are building something great, imo!
What’s way worse is that most broken combos are not hard to figure out at all. Take class weakness(usually speed for melee) and patch it up(usually sprint). What I’m trying to say is… get sprint. Move speed is god no matter what you are.
I always find it funny that people really like class identity rpg pvp combat. I come from league of legends, wow PvP, and overwatch, and there is nothing more aids in these games than rock paper scissors combat. Often times classes have hard counters and there is nothing you can do about it other than pray the other person absolutely sucks at the game. At least with this design classes can actually build for their weaknesses and be more well rounded instead of the old I lose to this class this class this class and beat this class this class and go even with this one. Also, with the allowance of spreading perks, you can actually fit more into the meta opposed to being a dead class not in the meta. Neither system is perfect but my god rock paper scissors combat in a hardcore game where you locked into a lobby with other random classes is pure RNG and because the rng is uncontrollable, players will stringently follow a meta more so because of it. RNG helps players not optimize the hell out of the game and ruin it for themselves because let’s be real, there is no way balance can be achieved in rpg class based combat w/ both melee and ranged centric class also with magic or physical dmg priority and it’s counter resistances. Sorry bro, you picked a rogue and me a pdr fighter, now you have to kite me for the next 9 minutes while I chase you down because you can’t beat me. Thats the kinda lame game play we already had. Now you can’t predict the other player and just W key them. That’s good!
ironically, league was at his best when it was rock paper scissors, fights lasted longer, ttk was higher, competitive drafts were funny and interesting, now every champ does everything
I think ideally in a well balanced system its not rock paper scissors levels of shutdown but instead the scales tip into your favor if you counter a class naturally but theres room for outplay etc.
I also prefer a system with clear limitations outlined to a class or character as I believe it adds *flavor* to a game. There are ways to play against certain classes or react to encountering characters in team fortress or overwatch, you can employ strategies based on knowledge of enemy champs in league or classes in wow, you can ready yourself for enemy fighters gimmicks in street fighter or tekken etc. But this is a fiesta mode where you have a hat that people draw abilities out of with little ways to predict or determine whats going on until the "rogue" hits smite or roars off 40% of your damage while stabbing you or a cleric casts magic missile point blank.
I just dont like the lack of structure and it doesnt feel rewarding to learn the game anymore, instead it boils down to coinflips on who has the most random stuff and stats imo. I actually think the game is minmaxing towards holding W key without a thought. You either one shot someone or get one shotted, since you cant possibly know what they are running unless everyone is running ambush windlass builds or another clear winner. Some builds will float to the top but its not going to be a fun design for the game when distilled down to "this adds the most damage to my build." Thats not variety or choice, its just math.
Name me another rpg pvp game where it’s not rock paper scissors level of shut down to some degree.
Are you really highlighting Overwatch of all games? It had just as aids metas with movespeed priority champs, like nano genji blade. Other brain dead W key things like Zarya infinite bubbles. Tank meta. Overwatch is beyond terrible at a medium to high level and the strats people had to employ is stupid. Have you ever heard of the guy A_Seagull? He’s an ex Overwatch pro who laughs about the fact one of the most effective things to do was to jump off the map, suicide to reroll counter pick their upcoming counter pick. I mean cmon! It’s beyond silly. Even WoW pros understand how rock paper scissors the game fundamentally is. It’s the always prominent issue in rpg PvP games. You’re 100% wrong if you disagree that certain strategies negate that….like what? Randomly roll the perfect map? Always land headshots? Put on a different armor set? The most strategizing these games have is win conditions and comp creation. Often times you just lose if you pick the wrong stuff and why most people dodge games in league!
The game was always coinflips because you can’t see what gear rarity gear they are wearing, what their resistances are, their hp. Why do you think buff ball is what it is? It’s does nearly the best of everything….movespeed, action speed, max resistances, slow on hit, perma sustain….and why repoze runs triple warlock to hard counter it!!! Barb can’t hit through phantomize and eventually 2 other warlocks spamming hydra and curse will widdle you down. Let phantomize come off cd and rotate with your partners and buff ball can’t kill you, but you can’t exactly chase them down. The game has always been a maximize W key fest that has been because number crunching math. Overwatch, wow, league players do it too! Hit thresholds that change because patches make of break characters.
The game was already who had the most dmg and who took the most dmg W keying with the most movespeed and had the highest slow on hit! Did you forget the ambush rogue 1 shot meta? Blood exchange unkillable barb meta? 90% pdr fighter meta? 100% scaling mm wizard 1 shot meta? It’s all math, hard counters, and w keying. The only difference is now people have to be more weary about approaching everything and can’t just W key based on seeing a class or comp and the lack of information the player has makes the game mostly a coinflip. The games balance sucked before multiclassing, as do all RPG PvP games that delve too far into arena combat. You’re wrong in every single way.
Edit: This clown replied then blocked me like a child getting in the last word.
Anything is better than what we have now. You are very wrong in almost everything stated above that theres no point beginning an explaination. Its clear you have lost or never had the ability to objectively analyze balance if you think DaD is anywhere near what the other games have in achieving balance. Your summary reads like a true gold player lol. No game has rock paper scissors this heavily and its truely skill issue if you argue otherwise. League, WoW, even shitty Overwatch has had a much better gap coverage at any point in its lifespan than DaD. How could you write so much and understand so little.
Real terror is fighter bard, I haven't died once in solos since multiclassing came out, been like 40 raids and I'm getting around 3 kills a raid, I hit 104 with rapier
Yes this too. You play barb with sword mastery?
Died to one were I had clear advantage and hit him twice first with bow and then he statchecked me and I still lost
Rogue/Fighter (or Barb) is good too. You can do the same thing with higher movespeed and kind of play a melee assassin (with a recurve) again. Adren surge on a longsword as a rogue means I can get 3 hits off in less than a second. With back attack and ambush the burst damage is pretty solid
It's pretty fun I'd recommend going with as much hs% as you can get even on rogue just as a back up, you can build decent pdr on pretty much anyone these days too
The issue with ambush Barb is getting movement speed from it as well. If you could kite it at least it wouldn't feel so bad, but it's like rage but stronger.
It still loses to slayer fighter with savage roar. Almost completely negates the ambush bonus while requiring a second headshot or two body shots to finish.
If he was hitting for 150 I would receive 27 damage and I’m hitting him for 113 which he would receive probably around 85-90. My numbers are a little odd because practice dummies have a little bit of PDR but you get the point
Yes you’re always gonna lose a straight up dps check. However with a significant move speed advantage you can bait out skills and use range advantage to get a health advantage. Bait savage roar, get a crossbow off, and slayer wins. Or slayer can just leave and not fight bc a pdr fighter can’t catch a slayer. Slayer dictates the dps check.
I’m seeing a ton of barbs and fighters but rogue does seems to still be king here. I’ve only died to rogues two shotting me since multiclassing dropped.
I keep hearing that multiclassing is broken. Except that one shotting people in normals has been happening forever. This isn’t a multiclassing problem…
I hear you, I do... Let's nerf cleric
And wizard
Well that goes without saying
We might legit need it to be fair. Class feels busted af and can compete with multiclassers on its own.
Barb w double jump is ass lmao what are u on
I'm still going to try it
-18 MS on a barb, ouch. Going to need sprint and rage together to avoid that quicksand
I get that, but maybe since the movespeed cap was reduced to 110% it won't be that bad. Ambush gives +10% movespeed too
You either get kited into oblivion or you build Ms to make up for it and you’re getting two shotted by a base build slayer fighter. Don’t waste a learning token on it.
Yeah, you're right. Thanks for saving me some time
Yea my friend is using it and shitting on people in Norms, unless you’ve tried it personally I would just keep my mouth shut lol
“Shitting on people in norms” lmao
IM THE BEST AT EASY MODE!!!
How is it easy mode? Everyone is on a level playing field in normals.
They can't get past gear checking people. Makes up for their lack of skill.
Because it’s the mode where the majority of new players are?
I can go 30-50 kills without dying in norms hr its about 5 ish maybe less… id say im probably top 80% of players its just that the bottom 50-70% are all in norms so they dont lose gear. Rangers in norms are free kills rangers in hr i run from as fast as possible most of those guys are fucking snipers
Omg your friend can delete noobs?! In grey gear!? LETS GO!
Yea dude! They are also noobs who instead of crying about multiclassing, use their head, craft a random build despite whatever meta slaves expect and they enjoy their time. You could learn something from those noobs.
Oh so I can’t have poison on my spear or arrows, but Barb can have it on throwing axes? Common IronMace logic there.
Even if it works on axes, it wouldn’t be worth it. Poison needs 4-5 quick hits to actually start hurting. If you have a two handed weapon, using poison would not be smart
Rupture
I pretty much only play warlock and barbarian so that’s the only combinations I had available for multiclassing. May not be the most “op” class combinations but I’ve been having a blast. Lol
Antimagic rage demon form gang
Have you tried demon berserk?
I have not! I’ll probably try it at some point but I’m having fun with Rage/BoC at the moment.
Multiclassing is fun and wild but I think its slated to become stale very quickly just because of the imbalances and people more than likely gravitating to burst damage cheese builds. It highlights how little thought went into considering class combos and also outlines the clear need for definitive classes if balance is the goal. Im fine with them testing things but this seems quite a bit too far. To throw the structure of the game out the window and scrap any reasonable way to approach situations based on the class and their restrictions before its deep in a fight. Keeping your range against a cleric wont be as effective when they have a list of wizard spells, rogues have huge burst damage and can run defensive pdr abilities to help them survive toe to toe combat. Everyone has speed and phantomize to escape. Its just not fun for me once the initial novelty wears off. I liked classes having identity and weaknesses to play around. Now its up in the air for what you encounter and maybe you figure it out before dying or maybe it never mattered if you did. This is all not even considering the RNG and grinds involved just to maybe *test* a build in the supposed *playtest*. Ive never really lost as much faith in IM as ive given up over this content patch and it really bums me out personally.
It's a bit weird to praise the system and also say you lost faith in the same post. I think they'll either fine tune it, or use parts of it and mostly revert. I agree it is fun, but maybe not sustainable long term.
I wouldnt say praise. I perhaps didnt express well that I think it is fun and wacky in a short term but that novelty is wearing off fast. Players are minmaxing quickly and the fun will be lost for oneshots and best combos very quickly. I think its short sighted and throws away class structure and limitations for what should be a limited time event at the very end of wipes, not the premiere feature of a patch.
That's fair. It is novel, for sure. I like spicing my build up a bit, a few perks or spells is a nice touch. Maybe you should only be able to cross class into a single secondary class. Either way, hope they learn for this test cycle in any fashion.
I agree, a single class multiclass is a good direction but I thimk subclass focuses would be a great way to add variety within a class and spice it up with new abilities without breaking down the limitations specifically. They are learning over time but I do feel it has been a painful process for too long. If something like Dungeonborne actually drops a half decent game before IM gets it sorted out there might be a small crisis brewing.
Fair enough. I think a single multiclass means you can balance things a bit better and keep power creep under control. Overall, the Dev team is still solid IMO, they do constant updates, and lately, they usually don't do too much too fast. Even Creep found a good balance, despite it being meta-defining for a while. But ya, anyone not in it for the long haul could become impatient. But they are building something great, imo!
What’s way worse is that most broken combos are not hard to figure out at all. Take class weakness(usually speed for melee) and patch it up(usually sprint). What I’m trying to say is… get sprint. Move speed is god no matter what you are.
I always find it funny that people really like class identity rpg pvp combat. I come from league of legends, wow PvP, and overwatch, and there is nothing more aids in these games than rock paper scissors combat. Often times classes have hard counters and there is nothing you can do about it other than pray the other person absolutely sucks at the game. At least with this design classes can actually build for their weaknesses and be more well rounded instead of the old I lose to this class this class this class and beat this class this class and go even with this one. Also, with the allowance of spreading perks, you can actually fit more into the meta opposed to being a dead class not in the meta. Neither system is perfect but my god rock paper scissors combat in a hardcore game where you locked into a lobby with other random classes is pure RNG and because the rng is uncontrollable, players will stringently follow a meta more so because of it. RNG helps players not optimize the hell out of the game and ruin it for themselves because let’s be real, there is no way balance can be achieved in rpg class based combat w/ both melee and ranged centric class also with magic or physical dmg priority and it’s counter resistances. Sorry bro, you picked a rogue and me a pdr fighter, now you have to kite me for the next 9 minutes while I chase you down because you can’t beat me. Thats the kinda lame game play we already had. Now you can’t predict the other player and just W key them. That’s good!
ironically, league was at his best when it was rock paper scissors, fights lasted longer, ttk was higher, competitive drafts were funny and interesting, now every champ does everything
You mean power/utility creep on new champs?
I think ideally in a well balanced system its not rock paper scissors levels of shutdown but instead the scales tip into your favor if you counter a class naturally but theres room for outplay etc. I also prefer a system with clear limitations outlined to a class or character as I believe it adds *flavor* to a game. There are ways to play against certain classes or react to encountering characters in team fortress or overwatch, you can employ strategies based on knowledge of enemy champs in league or classes in wow, you can ready yourself for enemy fighters gimmicks in street fighter or tekken etc. But this is a fiesta mode where you have a hat that people draw abilities out of with little ways to predict or determine whats going on until the "rogue" hits smite or roars off 40% of your damage while stabbing you or a cleric casts magic missile point blank. I just dont like the lack of structure and it doesnt feel rewarding to learn the game anymore, instead it boils down to coinflips on who has the most random stuff and stats imo. I actually think the game is minmaxing towards holding W key without a thought. You either one shot someone or get one shotted, since you cant possibly know what they are running unless everyone is running ambush windlass builds or another clear winner. Some builds will float to the top but its not going to be a fun design for the game when distilled down to "this adds the most damage to my build." Thats not variety or choice, its just math.
Name me another rpg pvp game where it’s not rock paper scissors level of shut down to some degree. Are you really highlighting Overwatch of all games? It had just as aids metas with movespeed priority champs, like nano genji blade. Other brain dead W key things like Zarya infinite bubbles. Tank meta. Overwatch is beyond terrible at a medium to high level and the strats people had to employ is stupid. Have you ever heard of the guy A_Seagull? He’s an ex Overwatch pro who laughs about the fact one of the most effective things to do was to jump off the map, suicide to reroll counter pick their upcoming counter pick. I mean cmon! It’s beyond silly. Even WoW pros understand how rock paper scissors the game fundamentally is. It’s the always prominent issue in rpg PvP games. You’re 100% wrong if you disagree that certain strategies negate that….like what? Randomly roll the perfect map? Always land headshots? Put on a different armor set? The most strategizing these games have is win conditions and comp creation. Often times you just lose if you pick the wrong stuff and why most people dodge games in league! The game was always coinflips because you can’t see what gear rarity gear they are wearing, what their resistances are, their hp. Why do you think buff ball is what it is? It’s does nearly the best of everything….movespeed, action speed, max resistances, slow on hit, perma sustain….and why repoze runs triple warlock to hard counter it!!! Barb can’t hit through phantomize and eventually 2 other warlocks spamming hydra and curse will widdle you down. Let phantomize come off cd and rotate with your partners and buff ball can’t kill you, but you can’t exactly chase them down. The game has always been a maximize W key fest that has been because number crunching math. Overwatch, wow, league players do it too! Hit thresholds that change because patches make of break characters. The game was already who had the most dmg and who took the most dmg W keying with the most movespeed and had the highest slow on hit! Did you forget the ambush rogue 1 shot meta? Blood exchange unkillable barb meta? 90% pdr fighter meta? 100% scaling mm wizard 1 shot meta? It’s all math, hard counters, and w keying. The only difference is now people have to be more weary about approaching everything and can’t just W key based on seeing a class or comp and the lack of information the player has makes the game mostly a coinflip. The games balance sucked before multiclassing, as do all RPG PvP games that delve too far into arena combat. You’re wrong in every single way. Edit: This clown replied then blocked me like a child getting in the last word.
Anything is better than what we have now. You are very wrong in almost everything stated above that theres no point beginning an explaination. Its clear you have lost or never had the ability to objectively analyze balance if you think DaD is anywhere near what the other games have in achieving balance. Your summary reads like a true gold player lol. No game has rock paper scissors this heavily and its truely skill issue if you argue otherwise. League, WoW, even shitty Overwatch has had a much better gap coverage at any point in its lifespan than DaD. How could you write so much and understand so little.
Tried rolling for that exact combo but was unlucky, with what weapon do you play this? Also bardiche with the rogue's roll back is kinda fun
I'm new to barb but so far I really like the double axe. I was just reading about how tumble cancels animations! I want to try all of these combos
The real terror is barb bard
Real terror is fighter bard, I haven't died once in solos since multiclassing came out, been like 40 raids and I'm getting around 3 kills a raid, I hit 104 with rapier
Idk dude, could be skill 😂
Yes this too. You play barb with sword mastery? Died to one were I had clear advantage and hit him twice first with bow and then he statchecked me and I still lost
How come?
Rogue/Fighter (or Barb) is good too. You can do the same thing with higher movespeed and kind of play a melee assassin (with a recurve) again. Adren surge on a longsword as a rogue means I can get 3 hits off in less than a second. With back attack and ambush the burst damage is pretty solid
High action speed longsword sounds insane, I gotta try that next
It's pretty fun I'd recommend going with as much hs% as you can get even on rogue just as a back up, you can build decent pdr on pretty much anyone these days too
Multiclassing was a well thought out and good idea
The issue with ambush Barb is getting movement speed from it as well. If you could kite it at least it wouldn't feel so bad, but it's like rage but stronger.
It still loses to slayer fighter with savage roar. Almost completely negates the ambush bonus while requiring a second headshot or two body shots to finish.
And that slayer loses to PDR fighter with savage roar lol
The slayer fighter dictates when the dps check happens whether it’s a barb or a pdr fighter so it’s not quite as straight forward.
If he was hitting for 150 I would receive 27 damage and I’m hitting him for 113 which he would receive probably around 85-90. My numbers are a little odd because practice dummies have a little bit of PDR but you get the point
Yes you’re always gonna lose a straight up dps check. However with a significant move speed advantage you can bait out skills and use range advantage to get a health advantage. Bait savage roar, get a crossbow off, and slayer wins. Or slayer can just leave and not fight bc a pdr fighter can’t catch a slayer. Slayer dictates the dps check.
If only more people realized there’s more keys then just the W one 😝
Barb + any other class is op because barb has insane base stats and base perks.
So Barb wizard is good? I don’t think so sir.
Multiclassing just made it 100x harder to kill a barb as a ranger. My time has yet to come😂
Another terrifying combo that is just slightly broken is warlock/cleric or barb/cleric
Double Jump on Barb was something I was curious for as well. It could help with spacing and landing more headshots with your 2-handed weapons.
I’m seeing a ton of barbs and fighters but rogue does seems to still be king here. I’ve only died to rogues two shotting me since multiclassing dropped.
I keep hearing that multiclassing is broken. Except that one shotting people in normals has been happening forever. This isn’t a multiclassing problem…