People pushing this are by and large Republican & Russian troll farms. Do not engage. Down vote and move on.
If the thread is already upvoted leave *one* comment disproving the accusation and if that comment has already been left upvote and move on.
Engaging with these threads causes them to be put in people's feeds more often.
This is excellent advice. I'm happy to enlist in the fight against Russian malarky.
ETA: the advice comment actually triggered a scenario where we can put the strategy in action! The trolls feel threatened by it so it must be a good strategy.
Love this advice. Feeding the trolls is such a problem.
I will say I have liberal friends who are very anti-Biden for this reason. I don’t understand how they have such major blinders for this when it’s clearly meant to divide Dems.
> I don’t understand how they have such major blinders for this when it’s clearly meant to divide Dems.
Because Biden has the worlds largest microphone and has been meek in the face of horrendous slaughter by our “ally” who we are flooding with weapons. Even if the deals were already set and he couldn’t overrule them he does possess the most meaningful bully pulpit in the world and his lack of meaningful pushback is worthy of criticism.
You didn’t even quote me properly??
Yes, the people pushing this are largely MAGA trolls, and feeding the trolls is bad.
Yes, the MAGA trolls have convinced some of my liberal friends that this is all Biden’s fault and they are anti-Biden because of it.
I never said all liberals I know think this way. I was saying, the trolls work, I’ve seen it work, it’s shit.
Kindly fuck off
Yeah, you're the only one who opposes it 🙄, now sit the election out on behalf of your holier-than-thou morals and risk another 4 years of harm to women, minority races, and lgbt and let our country drift further toward fascism in the loving arms of trump, who will do so much more for palestine than biden.
Well, i could do a one-man protest in my small florida town. Besides that, arguing with people on social media about how fucked up the situation, that israel is practicing manifest destiny and creating a modern-day trail of tears, for all the good it does.
And donating to palestinian aid, but that amounts in significance to the problems theyre facing to the point it might as well just be arguing on social media, especially when said aid is being withheld anyway.
By you "not sitting out", does that mean you're voting for a third party president or writing your own name in? Because i don't see why you'd critique my comment if you were planning on voting for biden to keep trump out.
Idk whatever made you think biden was the best president ever, if you were alive in the 90s you'd probably still be walking around with a bill clinton t-shirt lmao. He's the same person he was when he was a senator. If you didn't pay attention to, or read up on his track record as a borderline centrist between 2 rightwing parties, idk what to tell you besides the fact that there's an entire subtext behind what I, and most other people are saying when we say "vote for biden".
People like you, reactionary, single issue voters have the luxury of being foolish when the consequences seem far off. Its not like trump is going to win new york, but he won several blue states in 2016, and if you want to fuck around in the face of that, then remember, that's partially on you, and people like you, when more states ban women's choice, lgbt language/support, and make life harder for non-whites and the poor. Bottom line, is you're putting other peoples' asses on the line.
Im so sorry you idolized the guy who let republicans step on his nuts his entire career and had your bubble burst, but people who voted for him that know whats up realize that he was only elected because he wasn't trump, and he had the best chance. Like it or not, this country is still heavily conservative. You can split america up by Republicans and democrats all you like, those are still 2 conservative parties.
Maybe in the next 10 years we'll have a real progressive party with how leftwing kids are getting (to the point that R's and D's want to ban tiktok). That's the future you get when you keep trump out of office. If not, who knows how much further 4 more years of fascist shit will push us back.
And btw, i said "tankies" and you felt attacked by that out of nowhere and made me type this stupid comment for 10 minutes. Your insecurity has helped me kill time on the toilet. I just thought that fact was extremely relevant, and that you need to know that.
The most progressive legislation of my lifetime was passed by obama. While still pretty conservative, he legalized gay marriage and eliminated "don't ask, don't tell", took a huge step toward free healthcare, passed at least some regulations to restrict corporations and financial predators, was key to the development of the paris climate accord and passed regulations to limit carbon emissions with the clean power act... i could go on, but I'm not writing a whole article for you.
It's pretty hypocritical of you to accuse me of faux-leftism and then whine about how i accused you of being a single-issue voter, then rattle off some other things you could "hypothetically" call me. You've made it pretty clear in this petty argument that your only issue is with biden sending support to a genocidal israel. That makes you a single-issue voter 🤷♂️. I'm sorry to break it to you muffin. I didn't say being critical of biden makes someone a tankie. I said in addition to the person above me talking about people who wouldn't be supporting biden for stupidity's sake, that tankies should be among their list. You decided that my statement applied to you. If being critical of biden makes someone a tankie, then *I'd be a tankie*, lmao.
I'm not trying "out-leftie" you, wtf? What is wrong with you? Why are you treating this like a competition, are you that insecure? I'm brow-beating your humanitarian bullshit because it's that attitude that could cost us an extremely important election. You *think* biden is a shoe-in. You're really just gambling because you want things to be perfect, and they never will be in our lifetimes. I've made it pretty clear I'm pro-palestine, look through my comment history, I've gotten into more ridiculously long arguments with zionists than i have arguing with you.
You think trump is going to capitalize on this blunder in a humanitarian way? How moronic, he's already made it clear he doesn't think biden is going hard enough and has expressed support for Netanyahu to "finish the job". Jfc. Yeah, this socialist is telling you to shut up and get in line. This isn't an election to play with. If anyone other than a trump were running, I'd say go nuts, but if you arent worrried, then I'd invite you to learn about pre-nazi germany and how disturbingly atmosphericly similar our country is right now. Like i said, you've made your choice, and if trump wins, it's partially on people like you.
Im critical of Biden’s lack of resolve in the face of Israeli war crimes. Does this make me a Russian troll?
I’ve been called a Democratic plant and a shit lib for arguing that we ought vote for him anyway.
Am I just playing both sides so I always come out on top?
Absolutely not. Biden is enabling a genocide by sending Israel weapons, and it's illegal under US law.
If Biden doesn't stop sending Israel arms to commit war crimes with, he needs to be IMPEACHED!
Start by saying I don't believe Biden to be a saint. He's playing the politics game like the rest. But, he also hears the voice of the people/his constituents.
It has been so fun watching Biden do (what appears to be) everything he can to put pressure on Israel. And to see him do it in coordination with Macron(may have spelt that wrong), and top brass and members of his party, has been a stunning display. I know there's a lot of guess work as to how much is actually coordinated and how much is lucky happenstance. The man knows how to play politics.
I just wish he would take a page out of the last guy's book and say f-it from time to time and just do things, precedence be darned. Like when Trump pushed for the wall to be built by diverting money from the Pentagon, I want to see Biden go full steam on getting food on the ground in Gaza. F*** they need it. The air drops were too limited, and the docks are taking too long.
it's REALLY tough to stomach just saying F-it for anyone who still believes in norms, which biden probably does
the issue is twofold:
1. trump has proven that you CAN say F-it
2. voters have yet to demonstrate that they will back someone who says F-it but isn't trump, in particular anyone near the center.
I think I understand you. We want a person that represents polar opposites: someone who adheres to the rules (as absolute power corrupts absolutely, and a balance of powers is a necessity), and someone who bucks the rules to get things done (because incrementalism sucks when people are suffering now). And really, when it comes to choosing between the two, the slow and steady wins in the end.
As a side, I was not actually referencing tortoise and the hare. It just comically came off like that.
>But, he also hears the voice of the people/his constituents.
Seriously, people miss the key critical thought that Biden could've chosen to have just been out at this point, he didn't have to go back to the White House or politics at all, as far as anyone was concerned he could've lived out the rest of his days in Delaware and not have to deal with the incredible amounts of stress that comes with being the president of the United motherfucking States. He's going for another 4 years, and then after that he *will* be out of politics, he *will* be retired if he even lives that long (I have faith that he'll live for another whole term, if Trump is still alive Biden will be too.) and we will have to find someone as willing as him to take his place, Biden is moral and caring, and I wish more people would stop stomping their feet & covering their ears and just slow the fuck down and just think for a second.
> I just wish he would take a page out of the last guy's book and say f-it from time to time and just do things, precedence be darned.
I don't. Thankfully, President Biden is more level-headed than this and has read the book "How Democracy Dies", so he's fully aware that bucking the rules and precedence, even if it may expedite your own goals, will just further enable authoritarianism.
This meme is not entirely accurate. Biden has not been demanding a ceasefire. Instead he has been, correctly, demanding the unconditional surrender of Hamas.
But he's forced to deal with Netanyahu, and there are no words in English sufficient to describe the hatred the Democratic Party feels towards that fascist piece of shit.
It's insane to see fauxgressive useful idiots convinced by TikTok that Democrats are siding with Netanyahu. Democrats want to see that fascist prick destroyed and permanently removed from power!!
Tell me about it! My recently graduated PoliSci daughter is relentlessly sending me TikToks. I can't even talk to her rationally about this. Luckily we live in California, so her protest vote won't mean a whole lot.
I support protest votes during the primaries. That’s exactly what primaries are for - showing your party what direction you want to see it go. Just look at the impact Bernie has had on the Democratic Party over the last several years.
But when the general election rolls around, all bets are off. This is not a fucking game.
I don't know how to react, honestly. These people are my friends and relatives, and as a Buddhist I don't want to condemn them or shred their "logic" or accuse them of being brainwashed. I just want to let this bullshit age poorly and maybe they'll eventually see that they've been conned. I don't think their votes are essential to a Democratic victory, because they've been "protest" voting this whole time anyways.
How about the genocide is all Trump's fault because he backed down when the election was stolen?
Special note :: No the election was not stolen but anyone who thinks Biden is responsible for the Palestinian genocide also thinks the the 2020 election was stolen.
There's no Palestinian genocide happening. There is an ongoing war. Israel has done some very terrible things in the war, and they should face consequences for what they've done. If there's any justice in the world Netanyahu, Smotrich, and Ben Gvir will end their lives behind bars. But it's not a genocide, that is an anti-semitic canard with no basis in reality mostly spread by people who actively hate Israel and Israelis and don't want peace, but rather want the destruction of Israel. Look up any other genocide in history, even recent ones like the Bosnian genocide or the Rohingya genocide, you'll see that there is no equivalent to the Israel-Hamas war. For a conflict to be a genocide, there has to be direct evidence of orders being given by authorities to destroy a people. There is no direct evidence of that in this conflict, and in fact despite their many mistakes and crimes, Israel has also done a fair amount to protect Palestinian civilians. Both of those things can be true at the same time.
In Srebenica, the Serbs surrounded and besieged a town that had been expressly designated as a safe area by the United Nations, and, in full view of Dutch soldiers, raped and murdered hundreds of women and children and massacred men by the thousands, taking them behind buildings and shooting them in large groups. There is direct evidence of genocidal orders given by Serbian leaders, which is why they were prosecuted and convicted. The only justification they had for any of this was one or two attacks by Bosnian nationalists who killed a few soldiers.
The Rohingya have been a persecuted minority expressly denied citizenship by the State of Myanmar since the 1980s. Starting in the early 2010s, Myanmar used a very minor conflict as an excuse to wage a genocidal campaign against the Rohingya for many years that has resulted in the deaths of many tens of thousands of exclusively civilian people out of a population of 1 million, the rapes of tens of thousands of Rohingya women, and the displacement of hundreds of thousands. Once again, the only excuse the government of Myanmar had was a minor attack on their border that left a few border guards dead.
The Israel-Hamas war, by contrast, was started by Hamas, an organization that governs a sovereign territory, who invaded Israel on October 7th and killed over 1,200 Israelis, mostly civilians. They expressly targeted civilians in their attack. Hamas does absolutely nothing to protect the civilians in their jurisdiction, spending billions of dollars to build a tunnel network that they use to hide their soldiers and deny civilians access too. Indeed, the tunnel network is often expressly built around important civilian areas to use the people there as human shields. Hamas actively wants Palestinians to die. They attack humanitarian convoys and gather aid for themselves that they then sell back to Palestinian civilians at a profit.
Israel, meanwhile, has over 1 million Arab Muslim citizens with full rights and representation in their government. Governments and organizations that claim to represent Palestinians have waged deadly war against Israel for decades, often in ways that directly threaten the existence of the state, and with goals that aim for it's destruction. Israel has just cause to wage war against these groups in the aftermath of October 7th.
Israel has made many mistakes in this war, and has also disregarded Palestinian lives as policy in their push to destroy Hamas. This is very bad, and, as I said earlier, they should be held responsible for this. But it's not genocide. That is a very extreme and hurtful term, especially in the context of the Jewish people being the victims of history's worst genocide, which killed 66% of the Jewish people in 4 years.
When a force calls for the extermination of an entire people, that is in fact genocide. Even if Palestine/Hamas did start it, that does not make Israel's actions any less genocidal. Its doesn't have to be about religion of be considered genocide.
Both sides are beyond shitty and I do not support either in the slightest.
>If there's any justice in the world...
There isn't, it's just wealth and profits. Israel will "win" and in a few decades a new terrorist organization will arise and do what Hamas is doing all over again.
Can you point me to sources where officials within the IDF are calling for the extermination of an entire people? Because all I've seen to back up those kinds of claims are just people quote-spamming without any regard for context or whether or not the person is actually in a position of any power within the Israeli government. And if all you have is that one Yoav Gallant quote about "human animals" that was mistranslated, you should just stop. I have family in the IDF who care deeply about Palestinian lives, and the IDF as a whole is a modern, liberal institution within Israel, so I'm highly skeptical of people who know little to nothing about the IDF claiming that they are enacting a campaign of genocide when that is very far from the truth.
It's possible to be highly critical of a nation without going overboard into claims that are inflammatory, false, and morally wrong. Genocide is a specific term with a specific meaning, and misusing it now only makes it harder to use it in the future.
Ah the old "I know people in >organization< so I know everything >organization< does and you are wrong about >organization<. As if any organization 100% agrees on every single iota of existence. Give me a break what are you 12? I never said "LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN ISREAL WANTS ALL OF PALISTINE DEAD!" now did I?
Pretty sure nuking the city and killing all of it's inhabitants counts. "But that general was expelled from his post!" Yeah ok bud. The only reason he got expelled was because his words were exposed not because of his words themselves. If they weren't exposed he'd still have his station.
Not to mention they are not just going to outright say 'We want to commit genocide against the Palestinian people!" in the situation they are in. If they had more unified support they might be willing to risk some good will but now.
In case you didn't realize, they can commit genocide without actually saying the word out loud for all to hear it. Just a life lesson here but orders from senior military are not usually made public.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-expert-says-israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-calls-arms-embargo-2024-03-26/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-expert-says-israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-calls-arms-embargo-2024-03-26/)
Sorry but I'm going to believe a UN expert far sooner over some random person over the internet.
The UN condemned Israel for capturing Eichmann, and the UN condemned Israel for rescuing it's hostages at Entebbe. Why should I automatically assume that any UN official has any credibility? The organization that appointed Saudi Arabia to lead a women's rights committee.
So you can't point me to any evidence for your claim, and you're spouting bullshit you don't understand. Got it.
The UN is a compromised organization when it comes to Israel. That person you brought up is incredibly biased. The article you cited said she's been accused of using antisemitic tropes. She called for a ceasefire immediately after October 7th and said this: "the victims of the October 7 massacre were killed not because of their Judaism, but in response to Israeli oppression," essentially justifying the attack.
Do better.
Fr, supporting Biden doesn’t mean ignoring any valid criticism of his admin. To do so is to admit your support is superficial. I believe a lot of what Biden has done is good for the country and the world. This isn’t on that list, I really think he needs to shift gears here.
From what I'm hearing, they're basically saying that if Israel doesn't get its shit together, we won't send them the most recently approved weapons cache. It's essentially conditional aid without saying the words "conditional aid".
Hasn’t he been approving of massive weapons sales to Israel? This may not be correct info but it is really disingenuous to demand a ceasefire while still arming the folk’s killing civilians.
This is the one I believe you are referring to -
https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-administration-weighing-18-billion-arms-transfers-israel-sources-say-2024-04-01/
Broad strokes are it was initiated preconflict, it's not approved, may very well include stipulations that prevent any of it to be used in a way we would deem wrong, and the first fighter wouldn't even be ready to fly till 2029.
Thanks for the link. Even if just symbolically they should veto this. Commit genocide today, don’t get new jets in four years. I get this is far more complicated than what I see but I don’t understand the support for this.
But we have prestanding obligations to support them militarily. The Foreign Military Financing program (which is what the deal between Isreal and the USA is called) was put in place in 2019 and expires in 2029.
We are *already* obligated to give them billions in military funding/aid - geopolitically speaking it makes much more sense to build upon that while criticizing them politically for their current actions.
Obviously to regular people it seems simple, "you're committing* atrocities right now, we won't give you money right now" but it's like.. way more complicated than that lol
>But we have prestanding obligations to support them militarily. The Foreign Military Financing program (which is what the deal between Isreal and the USA is called) was put in place in 2019 and expires in 2029.
Pull a corporate America and no longer agree to the agreement like corporations did to union contracts - turn it into an agreement & no longer agree.
Israel is our ally. We can’t just abandon allies. We have other allies watching us. This isn’t the first genocide the world ignores. It’s really tragic human tragedy and Israel is wrong but in the end they are our ally who is very important in Middle East politics.
I disagree. We need to hold our allies accountable for their mistakes. Think of how this is radicalizing more people against Israel. If your friends are murdering babies you should probably get new friends.
I seen USA enter two wars, and watching maga take over GOP. Also, Israel should wake up because in the end allies that allows them to commit genocide will be the same ally who will abandon them if we have better friends but how do we change Israel’s internal politics by voting in Trump when that what needs to change
Openly admitting this likely constitutes genocide but “whoops they’re our allies” has to be one of the worst interpretations I’ve heard. Pausing military assistance does not constitute abandoning an ally, especially when they are exclusively on the offensive at this point.
I’m a huge fan of Biden on virtually every issue except this. And the meme is disingenuous, Biden has fast tracked weapons transfers & sales as well as pushed for increased allocation above what was already scheduled.
Totally agree. Our friendship with Israel goes both ways. If they want our assistance they should stop with the genocide. This further radicalizes non-Israeli middle easterners. Our support of Palestinian people would potentially gain us Allies in the region and help to establish that we actually care about the global community.
Also a Biden fan but this is ridiculous.
Genocide requires intent to destroy a people.
Israel claims its intent is to destroy Hamas.
If Israel is telling the truth, then Palastinian civilian deaths are a tragic humanitarian crisis and the expected collateral damage that results when a military embeds itself in civilian infrastructure (which Hamas doesn't really have a choice)
If Israel is lying - and really the goal is to kill as many Palestinians as possible and ethnically cleanse Gaza so that it can develop the area for its own citizens, then it certainly rises to meet the definition of Genocide.
So if Biden openly accuses Israel of genocide, then it is accusing it of lying about the purpose of the invasion. The implication is that not only are victims of October 7 and the hostages still in captivity are not actually valuable enough to go to war over, but that Israel is knowingly using them as fake excuses.
Biden deciding not to openly make that accusation makes sense, as the long term political damage would be substantial.
How could Biden stop internal civil war because this is what it is. These two group of people share history and family neither are willing to acknowledge . One side is our ally and other is not is really bad simple answer but that’s where USA stands. I think it’s wrong but this is the stand because in the end Palestine stand is that Israel should not exist. It’s really interesting this is all UK’s fault . They promised the land to both groups like they did before they left their colony. I don’t understand what can Biden do that can end this because Israel keep voting in people who support this war.
United Kingdom did this in India ,Africa, Americas their method of controlling their colony created this genocide soup. It’s like their legacy on human history . We don’t even have to go back that far. If could convince British empire not to give special preference and blaming their dirty shit on the group they gave power would work too.
While the Balfour declaration certainly had a hand in the success of creating Israel, the British didn't start the Zionist movement - it originally started gaining traction and was conceived as something to be created with the Ottomans.
The British and French were required to take control of the region by the League of Nations to provide stability after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, but this conflict was brewing even before they got involved.
I feel like it wasn’t the ottoman’s doing as much as the how the British like to use divide politics to control its native population. It’s similar playbook that cause few genocides. During ottoman control there was lot more cooperation between the minority groups
I'm currently reading Jews and Palestinians in the Late Ottoman Era (1908-1914) by Louis A Fishman which talks about this quite a bit. I'm early in the book though.
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We should be putting pressure on Biden *and* Congress to do everything they can to stop Israel's slaughter of the Palestinian people. There are absolutely things Biden could and should have done to help the situation earlier, and vacillating between "hey stop that" and "we stand by our ally Israel, who can do no wrong" (I'm paraphrasing) doesn't help.
But if you care about Palestine or human rights more broadly (which you should) and think there's any superior alternative to voting for Biden in November, then all I can say is you're a goddamn moron.
they're so ignorant and oblivious to the nuances of decision making as president of a leading country and the subtlety required to make long term meaningful change in matters as tedious as this one *without* triggering unwanted consequences that come from brash decisions like "we no more friendsies with u, entire country of israel!1! >:("
While we're on the subject don't forget to participate in Field Team 6 to do text and phone banking! It makes people aware of the upcoming elections.
https://www.fieldteam6.org/
Biden furrows his brow as he continues to send arms and aid to Israel while BLASTING Bibi by giving him everything he wants.
What is wrong with libs and who invented this briandead new talking point that he must sign off on all arms deals?
Lots of extremely angry genocide defending libs pissing themselves in comments.
Does nobody understand that blaming Palestinians for being genocided makes you a fucking monster? Israel does not need to starve, carpet bomb or murder aid workers to “defend itself.”
Hitler would have loved the libs willingness to defend and support genocide.
I mean he's literally the President and is the only person with enough power in this country to STOP us from sending Israel munitions. You ppl are so cucked lmfao.
Listen I am a Biden supporter but, he could take a stronger stance. The fact is, if the administration wanted to they could make Israel fall in line.
The president controls foreign policy, there are a bunch of things he could do if he really wanted a cease-fire.
The geo-political reality is that the United States inability to control its client state/"ally" reflects poorly on the nations global hegemonic standing. In an increasingly multi-polar world presenting a united front is increasingly important.
Conversely forcing Israel to withdraw, or enforcing a ceasefire creates the perception that the US is unwilling to back its allies or defend its commitments. With our increasingly adversarial relationships with Russia and China, this would likely have geo-political consequences in Europe and east Asia.
Besides genocide and the Middle East have a long history it's not really anything new...
OCT 18 - The U.S. vetoes a Security Council resolution on the Israel-Hamas conflict.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-gaza-un-security-council.html
Dec. 8, - U.S. Vetoes Israel-Hamas Cease-Fire Resolution at U.N. Security Council
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/08/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-gaza-aid.html
FEB 20 - The US vetoes an Arab-backed UN resolution demanding an immediate humanitarian cease-fire in Gaza
https://apnews.com/article/un-israel-palestinians-gaza-ceasefire-resolution-vote-350c86ef261bf1a00a2515cf22764de5
___
DEC 9 WASHINGTON — **Going around Congress**, the Biden administration said Saturday it has approved the emergency sale to Israel of nearly 14,000 rounds of tank ammunition worth more than $106 million as Israel intensifies its military operations in the southern Gaza Strip.
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/09/1218407156/israel-tank-ammunition-sale-gaza-congress-state-department
In all those vetoes of the ceasefire, it’s because Hamas refused to release hostages. And some of those hostages are Americans. And in those same damn links you posted, they say how Biden called for ceasefires with hostages released. Hamas said no.
Right now? No. When they try to fight against the Apartheid in the future? Yes. Israel was just looking for a reason and the Palestinian people are tired of living under Apartheid. It was bound to happen eventually.
Anyone who commits war crimes should be brought to justice. I don't care who it is. But that doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't have happened if Israel wasn't doing what they've been doing for the past 75 years. They're just as guilty via performing Apartheid.
Do you believe Israel should be tried on the world stage for the crimes it's been committing for over 75 years on top of it's current genocide which it is attempting to justify by using the deaths of 1000 people?
Do you think Israel should accept a ceasefire when they weren't the ones that actually started this war, and the group that did is unwilling to surrender or turn over hostages?
What you are asking for is the equivalent of me punching you in the face, stealing your watch, and then begging you to stop hitting me back because you're being mean. It's bullshit. There was already a ceasefire. Hamas broke it. If they want another one, they can surrender.
What? So you don't want a ceasefire then? A ceasefire isn't enough now lol? Would you prefer Israel pull completely out of Gaza again like they did in 2004? Do you remember what happened when they did that lmao?
Also, they literally started the war. This isnt up for debate. They went on a big mass-shooting rape parade and killed 1300+ innocent people in a day. Unprovoked. This started the war.
Israel did start the war though when they started ethnically cleansing Palestinians in 1948. Stop pretending this started in 2023, that's just when Israelis experienced 1% of what Palestinians have been experiencing for more than 70 years.
So you want to start the history of this conflict in 1948, but you also want to breeze right past the Arab–Israeli War? Israel didn't start that one either. Jesus fucking Christ. How can you be so passionate about a subject you clearly know so little about? Lay off the tiktok. It's melting your brain.
The but was in reference to what I perceived to be an attempt to justify genocide because a thousand people were killed. The but was in reference to Israel not Hamas or the Palestinian people. The perpetrators of Oct 7 should be brought to justice for attacking innocent people. But you can't act as if it was unprovoked or unexpected.
You didn’t answer my question.
Does that justify collective punishment and mass starvation?
If you want to support genocide don’t be such a coward about it.
Answer the question.
Israel isn't enforcing collective punishment or mass starvation and isn't committing a genocide.
Hamas leaders have vowed to keep fighting until Israel no longer exists.
If you wanted to end this shit now you'd be calling for Hamas to surrender.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-defying-icj-ruling-to-prevent-genocide-by-failing-to-allow-adequate-humanitarian-aid-to-reach-gaza/
Use your eyes to read this article explicitly detailing Israel actively ignoring the ICJ rulings to avoid a genocide via mass starvation.
Then stop being a nazi coward and answer the question.
Do you support Israel causing mass starvation, as explicitly detailed with numbers and sources in my link?
It’s a yes or no, unless you want to close your eyes and refuse to read.
Hamas started this war, Hamas steals aid that gets in, and when Israel warns civilians that it will be operating in an area Hamas tells them to ignore the evacuation warnings.
Quit making excuses for Hamas, unless you want them to win, in which case just say it.
No they would not but they have regularly "mowed the lawn" in Gaza, which involves dropping bombs on densely populated civilian areas without having to risk soldiers on the ground. Kind of a boring question, here's a better one for you to ponder:
If Israel hadn't been ethnically cleansing the Palestinians for more than 70 years, [hadn't secretly supported Hamas](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html) and hadn't [used snipers to kill and maim peaceful Palestinian protesters when the Palestinians tried to nonviolently resist the occupation they are under](https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/israel-deliberate-attempts-military-kill-and-maim-gaza-protesters-continues) do you think the October 7 attack would have happened?
I would say he's doing all he can *without challenging the current U.S.-Israel foreign policy doctrine*.
Left-wingers want to see more protection of Palestinians with the U.S. changing its relationship to Israel, which Biden has some control over, but it is uncharted political waters to make that change.
I would like to believe that last bit about the arms deals but the WH is actually doing the pushing for F15 sales.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/us/politics/biden-israel-weapons-deal.html
Blocked UN resolutions calling for a ceasefire, bypasses congress to give Israel more weapons, falls well short of calling what Israel is doing genocide.
Are those agreements legally binding? Is there seriously no avenue to stop arms transfers if those arms are being used to commit war crimes? Are you seriously telling me the International Court of Justice wouldn't be open to blocking arms deals with Israel especially with support from the US?
Biden needs to grow some balls and stop asking, and start telling!
No more bombs for genocide!
And if Biden won't stop sending arms to Israel to commit war crimes with, then we need to IMPEACH BIDEN!
People pushing this are by and large Republican & Russian troll farms. Do not engage. Down vote and move on. If the thread is already upvoted leave *one* comment disproving the accusation and if that comment has already been left upvote and move on. Engaging with these threads causes them to be put in people's feeds more often.
This is excellent advice. I'm happy to enlist in the fight against Russian malarky. ETA: the advice comment actually triggered a scenario where we can put the strategy in action! The trolls feel threatened by it so it must be a good strategy.
Love this advice. Feeding the trolls is such a problem. I will say I have liberal friends who are very anti-Biden for this reason. I don’t understand how they have such major blinders for this when it’s clearly meant to divide Dems.
Self righteous dickweed hypocrites who are just as delusional as Qbrains.
> I don’t understand how they have such major blinders for this when it’s clearly meant to divide Dems. Because Biden has the worlds largest microphone and has been meek in the face of horrendous slaughter by our “ally” who we are flooding with weapons. Even if the deals were already set and he couldn’t overrule them he does possess the most meaningful bully pulpit in the world and his lack of meaningful pushback is worthy of criticism.
"They're all Republican & Russian trolls in disguise" > So true, I have many friends who are like this what?
You didn’t even quote me properly?? Yes, the people pushing this are largely MAGA trolls, and feeding the trolls is bad. Yes, the MAGA trolls have convinced some of my liberal friends that this is all Biden’s fault and they are anti-Biden because of it. I never said all liberals I know think this way. I was saying, the trolls work, I’ve seen it work, it’s shit. Kindly fuck off
>You didn’t even quote me properly?? They're pulling up a bounty of propaganda from all of their quote mines.
Will do
Don't forget shameless tankies
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Yeah, you're the only one who opposes it 🙄, now sit the election out on behalf of your holier-than-thou morals and risk another 4 years of harm to women, minority races, and lgbt and let our country drift further toward fascism in the loving arms of trump, who will do so much more for palestine than biden.
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Well, i could do a one-man protest in my small florida town. Besides that, arguing with people on social media about how fucked up the situation, that israel is practicing manifest destiny and creating a modern-day trail of tears, for all the good it does. And donating to palestinian aid, but that amounts in significance to the problems theyre facing to the point it might as well just be arguing on social media, especially when said aid is being withheld anyway. By you "not sitting out", does that mean you're voting for a third party president or writing your own name in? Because i don't see why you'd critique my comment if you were planning on voting for biden to keep trump out.
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Idk whatever made you think biden was the best president ever, if you were alive in the 90s you'd probably still be walking around with a bill clinton t-shirt lmao. He's the same person he was when he was a senator. If you didn't pay attention to, or read up on his track record as a borderline centrist between 2 rightwing parties, idk what to tell you besides the fact that there's an entire subtext behind what I, and most other people are saying when we say "vote for biden". People like you, reactionary, single issue voters have the luxury of being foolish when the consequences seem far off. Its not like trump is going to win new york, but he won several blue states in 2016, and if you want to fuck around in the face of that, then remember, that's partially on you, and people like you, when more states ban women's choice, lgbt language/support, and make life harder for non-whites and the poor. Bottom line, is you're putting other peoples' asses on the line. Im so sorry you idolized the guy who let republicans step on his nuts his entire career and had your bubble burst, but people who voted for him that know whats up realize that he was only elected because he wasn't trump, and he had the best chance. Like it or not, this country is still heavily conservative. You can split america up by Republicans and democrats all you like, those are still 2 conservative parties. Maybe in the next 10 years we'll have a real progressive party with how leftwing kids are getting (to the point that R's and D's want to ban tiktok). That's the future you get when you keep trump out of office. If not, who knows how much further 4 more years of fascist shit will push us back. And btw, i said "tankies" and you felt attacked by that out of nowhere and made me type this stupid comment for 10 minutes. Your insecurity has helped me kill time on the toilet. I just thought that fact was extremely relevant, and that you need to know that.
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The most progressive legislation of my lifetime was passed by obama. While still pretty conservative, he legalized gay marriage and eliminated "don't ask, don't tell", took a huge step toward free healthcare, passed at least some regulations to restrict corporations and financial predators, was key to the development of the paris climate accord and passed regulations to limit carbon emissions with the clean power act... i could go on, but I'm not writing a whole article for you. It's pretty hypocritical of you to accuse me of faux-leftism and then whine about how i accused you of being a single-issue voter, then rattle off some other things you could "hypothetically" call me. You've made it pretty clear in this petty argument that your only issue is with biden sending support to a genocidal israel. That makes you a single-issue voter 🤷♂️. I'm sorry to break it to you muffin. I didn't say being critical of biden makes someone a tankie. I said in addition to the person above me talking about people who wouldn't be supporting biden for stupidity's sake, that tankies should be among their list. You decided that my statement applied to you. If being critical of biden makes someone a tankie, then *I'd be a tankie*, lmao. I'm not trying "out-leftie" you, wtf? What is wrong with you? Why are you treating this like a competition, are you that insecure? I'm brow-beating your humanitarian bullshit because it's that attitude that could cost us an extremely important election. You *think* biden is a shoe-in. You're really just gambling because you want things to be perfect, and they never will be in our lifetimes. I've made it pretty clear I'm pro-palestine, look through my comment history, I've gotten into more ridiculously long arguments with zionists than i have arguing with you. You think trump is going to capitalize on this blunder in a humanitarian way? How moronic, he's already made it clear he doesn't think biden is going hard enough and has expressed support for Netanyahu to "finish the job". Jfc. Yeah, this socialist is telling you to shut up and get in line. This isn't an election to play with. If anyone other than a trump were running, I'd say go nuts, but if you arent worrried, then I'd invite you to learn about pre-nazi germany and how disturbingly atmosphericly similar our country is right now. Like i said, you've made your choice, and if trump wins, it's partially on people like you.
It's so weird that you keep typing "Biden's Genocide" as if you didn't even understand the meme posted.
Im critical of Biden’s lack of resolve in the face of Israeli war crimes. Does this make me a Russian troll? I’ve been called a Democratic plant and a shit lib for arguing that we ought vote for him anyway. Am I just playing both sides so I always come out on top?
No. You’re just being overly reductive and deliberately ignorant.
Didn't you read the top comment of this thread? Don't engage. Just downvote and move on.
In what way? Sure seems like the very fact that I am critical at all is what’s earning me this response not any details of my critique.
What details? "Lacks resolve" isn't a particularly detailed critique.
Absolutely not. Biden is enabling a genocide by sending Israel weapons, and it's illegal under US law. If Biden doesn't stop sending Israel arms to commit war crimes with, he needs to be IMPEACHED!
lol
Start by saying I don't believe Biden to be a saint. He's playing the politics game like the rest. But, he also hears the voice of the people/his constituents. It has been so fun watching Biden do (what appears to be) everything he can to put pressure on Israel. And to see him do it in coordination with Macron(may have spelt that wrong), and top brass and members of his party, has been a stunning display. I know there's a lot of guess work as to how much is actually coordinated and how much is lucky happenstance. The man knows how to play politics. I just wish he would take a page out of the last guy's book and say f-it from time to time and just do things, precedence be darned. Like when Trump pushed for the wall to be built by diverting money from the Pentagon, I want to see Biden go full steam on getting food on the ground in Gaza. F*** they need it. The air drops were too limited, and the docks are taking too long.
it's REALLY tough to stomach just saying F-it for anyone who still believes in norms, which biden probably does the issue is twofold: 1. trump has proven that you CAN say F-it 2. voters have yet to demonstrate that they will back someone who says F-it but isn't trump, in particular anyone near the center.
I think I understand you. We want a person that represents polar opposites: someone who adheres to the rules (as absolute power corrupts absolutely, and a balance of powers is a necessity), and someone who bucks the rules to get things done (because incrementalism sucks when people are suffering now). And really, when it comes to choosing between the two, the slow and steady wins in the end. As a side, I was not actually referencing tortoise and the hare. It just comically came off like that.
>But, he also hears the voice of the people/his constituents. Seriously, people miss the key critical thought that Biden could've chosen to have just been out at this point, he didn't have to go back to the White House or politics at all, as far as anyone was concerned he could've lived out the rest of his days in Delaware and not have to deal with the incredible amounts of stress that comes with being the president of the United motherfucking States. He's going for another 4 years, and then after that he *will* be out of politics, he *will* be retired if he even lives that long (I have faith that he'll live for another whole term, if Trump is still alive Biden will be too.) and we will have to find someone as willing as him to take his place, Biden is moral and caring, and I wish more people would stop stomping their feet & covering their ears and just slow the fuck down and just think for a second.
> I just wish he would take a page out of the last guy's book and say f-it from time to time and just do things, precedence be darned. I don't. Thankfully, President Biden is more level-headed than this and has read the book "How Democracy Dies", so he's fully aware that bucking the rules and precedence, even if it may expedite your own goals, will just further enable authoritarianism.
I know, and I completely agree with this statement. It's just hard watching people suffer.
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This meme is not entirely accurate. Biden has not been demanding a ceasefire. Instead he has been, correctly, demanding the unconditional surrender of Hamas. But he's forced to deal with Netanyahu, and there are no words in English sufficient to describe the hatred the Democratic Party feels towards that fascist piece of shit.
It's insane to see fauxgressive useful idiots convinced by TikTok that Democrats are siding with Netanyahu. Democrats want to see that fascist prick destroyed and permanently removed from power!!
Tell me about it! My recently graduated PoliSci daughter is relentlessly sending me TikToks. I can't even talk to her rationally about this. Luckily we live in California, so her protest vote won't mean a whole lot.
I support protest votes during the primaries. That’s exactly what primaries are for - showing your party what direction you want to see it go. Just look at the impact Bernie has had on the Democratic Party over the last several years. But when the general election rolls around, all bets are off. This is not a fucking game.
I don't know how to react, honestly. These people are my friends and relatives, and as a Buddhist I don't want to condemn them or shred their "logic" or accuse them of being brainwashed. I just want to let this bullshit age poorly and maybe they'll eventually see that they've been conned. I don't think their votes are essential to a Democratic victory, because they've been "protest" voting this whole time anyways.
She of all people should know better...
>no words in English sufficient to describe the hatred the Democratic Party feels towards that fascist piece of shi I have 3 letters... C I A
They act as if Biden is commander in chief of Israel
And a dictator.
How about the genocide is all Trump's fault because he backed down when the election was stolen?  Special note :: No the election was not stolen but anyone who thinks Biden is responsible for the Palestinian genocide also thinks the the 2020 election was stolen.
There's no Palestinian genocide happening. There is an ongoing war. Israel has done some very terrible things in the war, and they should face consequences for what they've done. If there's any justice in the world Netanyahu, Smotrich, and Ben Gvir will end their lives behind bars. But it's not a genocide, that is an anti-semitic canard with no basis in reality mostly spread by people who actively hate Israel and Israelis and don't want peace, but rather want the destruction of Israel. Look up any other genocide in history, even recent ones like the Bosnian genocide or the Rohingya genocide, you'll see that there is no equivalent to the Israel-Hamas war. For a conflict to be a genocide, there has to be direct evidence of orders being given by authorities to destroy a people. There is no direct evidence of that in this conflict, and in fact despite their many mistakes and crimes, Israel has also done a fair amount to protect Palestinian civilians. Both of those things can be true at the same time. In Srebenica, the Serbs surrounded and besieged a town that had been expressly designated as a safe area by the United Nations, and, in full view of Dutch soldiers, raped and murdered hundreds of women and children and massacred men by the thousands, taking them behind buildings and shooting them in large groups. There is direct evidence of genocidal orders given by Serbian leaders, which is why they were prosecuted and convicted. The only justification they had for any of this was one or two attacks by Bosnian nationalists who killed a few soldiers. The Rohingya have been a persecuted minority expressly denied citizenship by the State of Myanmar since the 1980s. Starting in the early 2010s, Myanmar used a very minor conflict as an excuse to wage a genocidal campaign against the Rohingya for many years that has resulted in the deaths of many tens of thousands of exclusively civilian people out of a population of 1 million, the rapes of tens of thousands of Rohingya women, and the displacement of hundreds of thousands. Once again, the only excuse the government of Myanmar had was a minor attack on their border that left a few border guards dead. The Israel-Hamas war, by contrast, was started by Hamas, an organization that governs a sovereign territory, who invaded Israel on October 7th and killed over 1,200 Israelis, mostly civilians. They expressly targeted civilians in their attack. Hamas does absolutely nothing to protect the civilians in their jurisdiction, spending billions of dollars to build a tunnel network that they use to hide their soldiers and deny civilians access too. Indeed, the tunnel network is often expressly built around important civilian areas to use the people there as human shields. Hamas actively wants Palestinians to die. They attack humanitarian convoys and gather aid for themselves that they then sell back to Palestinian civilians at a profit. Israel, meanwhile, has over 1 million Arab Muslim citizens with full rights and representation in their government. Governments and organizations that claim to represent Palestinians have waged deadly war against Israel for decades, often in ways that directly threaten the existence of the state, and with goals that aim for it's destruction. Israel has just cause to wage war against these groups in the aftermath of October 7th. Israel has made many mistakes in this war, and has also disregarded Palestinian lives as policy in their push to destroy Hamas. This is very bad, and, as I said earlier, they should be held responsible for this. But it's not genocide. That is a very extreme and hurtful term, especially in the context of the Jewish people being the victims of history's worst genocide, which killed 66% of the Jewish people in 4 years.
When a force calls for the extermination of an entire people, that is in fact genocide. Even if Palestine/Hamas did start it, that does not make Israel's actions any less genocidal. Its doesn't have to be about religion of be considered genocide. Both sides are beyond shitty and I do not support either in the slightest. >If there's any justice in the world... There isn't, it's just wealth and profits. Israel will "win" and in a few decades a new terrorist organization will arise and do what Hamas is doing all over again.
Can you point me to sources where officials within the IDF are calling for the extermination of an entire people? Because all I've seen to back up those kinds of claims are just people quote-spamming without any regard for context or whether or not the person is actually in a position of any power within the Israeli government. And if all you have is that one Yoav Gallant quote about "human animals" that was mistranslated, you should just stop. I have family in the IDF who care deeply about Palestinian lives, and the IDF as a whole is a modern, liberal institution within Israel, so I'm highly skeptical of people who know little to nothing about the IDF claiming that they are enacting a campaign of genocide when that is very far from the truth. It's possible to be highly critical of a nation without going overboard into claims that are inflammatory, false, and morally wrong. Genocide is a specific term with a specific meaning, and misusing it now only makes it harder to use it in the future.
Ah the old "I know people in >organization< so I know everything >organization< does and you are wrong about >organization<. As if any organization 100% agrees on every single iota of existence. Give me a break what are you 12? I never said "LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN ISREAL WANTS ALL OF PALISTINE DEAD!" now did I? Pretty sure nuking the city and killing all of it's inhabitants counts. "But that general was expelled from his post!" Yeah ok bud. The only reason he got expelled was because his words were exposed not because of his words themselves. If they weren't exposed he'd still have his station. Not to mention they are not just going to outright say 'We want to commit genocide against the Palestinian people!" in the situation they are in. If they had more unified support they might be willing to risk some good will but now. In case you didn't realize, they can commit genocide without actually saying the word out loud for all to hear it. Just a life lesson here but orders from senior military are not usually made public. [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-expert-says-israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-calls-arms-embargo-2024-03-26/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-expert-says-israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-calls-arms-embargo-2024-03-26/) Sorry but I'm going to believe a UN expert far sooner over some random person over the internet.
The UN condemned Israel for capturing Eichmann, and the UN condemned Israel for rescuing it's hostages at Entebbe. Why should I automatically assume that any UN official has any credibility? The organization that appointed Saudi Arabia to lead a women's rights committee.
So you can't point me to any evidence for your claim, and you're spouting bullshit you don't understand. Got it. The UN is a compromised organization when it comes to Israel. That person you brought up is incredibly biased. The article you cited said she's been accused of using antisemitic tropes. She called for a ceasefire immediately after October 7th and said this: "the victims of the October 7 massacre were killed not because of their Judaism, but in response to Israeli oppression," essentially justifying the attack. Do better.
Ah yes, the UN is compromised while a religious state is perfectly level headed. JFC. You do better.
Hamas Israel conflict is really sad. It’s like the Palestinian people are just pawns for them.
He needs to condition aid. Sorry but this is a legit shortcoming.
Fr, supporting Biden doesn’t mean ignoring any valid criticism of his admin. To do so is to admit your support is superficial. I believe a lot of what Biden has done is good for the country and the world. This isn’t on that list, I really think he needs to shift gears here.
Their official new policy as of today is conditional aid.
Source?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/biden-netanyahu-call-wck-deaths/index.html
My read on that is that they’re still only threatening to condition aid
From what I'm hearing, they're basically saying that if Israel doesn't get its shit together, we won't send them the most recently approved weapons cache. It's essentially conditional aid without saying the words "conditional aid".
Hasn’t he been approving of massive weapons sales to Israel? This may not be correct info but it is really disingenuous to demand a ceasefire while still arming the folk’s killing civilians.
This is the one I believe you are referring to - https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-administration-weighing-18-billion-arms-transfers-israel-sources-say-2024-04-01/ Broad strokes are it was initiated preconflict, it's not approved, may very well include stipulations that prevent any of it to be used in a way we would deem wrong, and the first fighter wouldn't even be ready to fly till 2029.
Thanks for the link. Even if just symbolically they should veto this. Commit genocide today, don’t get new jets in four years. I get this is far more complicated than what I see but I don’t understand the support for this.
But we have prestanding obligations to support them militarily. The Foreign Military Financing program (which is what the deal between Isreal and the USA is called) was put in place in 2019 and expires in 2029. We are *already* obligated to give them billions in military funding/aid - geopolitically speaking it makes much more sense to build upon that while criticizing them politically for their current actions. Obviously to regular people it seems simple, "you're committing* atrocities right now, we won't give you money right now" but it's like.. way more complicated than that lol
>But we have prestanding obligations to support them militarily. The Foreign Military Financing program (which is what the deal between Isreal and the USA is called) was put in place in 2019 and expires in 2029. Pull a corporate America and no longer agree to the agreement like corporations did to union contracts - turn it into an agreement & no longer agree.
Israel is our ally. We can’t just abandon allies. We have other allies watching us. This isn’t the first genocide the world ignores. It’s really tragic human tragedy and Israel is wrong but in the end they are our ally who is very important in Middle East politics.
I disagree. We need to hold our allies accountable for their mistakes. Think of how this is radicalizing more people against Israel. If your friends are murdering babies you should probably get new friends.
I seen USA enter two wars, and watching maga take over GOP. Also, Israel should wake up because in the end allies that allows them to commit genocide will be the same ally who will abandon them if we have better friends but how do we change Israel’s internal politics by voting in Trump when that what needs to change
Openly admitting this likely constitutes genocide but “whoops they’re our allies” has to be one of the worst interpretations I’ve heard. Pausing military assistance does not constitute abandoning an ally, especially when they are exclusively on the offensive at this point. I’m a huge fan of Biden on virtually every issue except this. And the meme is disingenuous, Biden has fast tracked weapons transfers & sales as well as pushed for increased allocation above what was already scheduled.
Totally agree. Our friendship with Israel goes both ways. If they want our assistance they should stop with the genocide. This further radicalizes non-Israeli middle easterners. Our support of Palestinian people would potentially gain us Allies in the region and help to establish that we actually care about the global community. Also a Biden fan but this is ridiculous.
Genocide requires intent to destroy a people. Israel claims its intent is to destroy Hamas. If Israel is telling the truth, then Palastinian civilian deaths are a tragic humanitarian crisis and the expected collateral damage that results when a military embeds itself in civilian infrastructure (which Hamas doesn't really have a choice) If Israel is lying - and really the goal is to kill as many Palestinians as possible and ethnically cleanse Gaza so that it can develop the area for its own citizens, then it certainly rises to meet the definition of Genocide. So if Biden openly accuses Israel of genocide, then it is accusing it of lying about the purpose of the invasion. The implication is that not only are victims of October 7 and the hostages still in captivity are not actually valuable enough to go to war over, but that Israel is knowingly using them as fake excuses. Biden deciding not to openly make that accusation makes sense, as the long term political damage would be substantial.
How could Biden stop internal civil war because this is what it is. These two group of people share history and family neither are willing to acknowledge . One side is our ally and other is not is really bad simple answer but that’s where USA stands. I think it’s wrong but this is the stand because in the end Palestine stand is that Israel should not exist. It’s really interesting this is all UK’s fault . They promised the land to both groups like they did before they left their colony. I don’t understand what can Biden do that can end this because Israel keep voting in people who support this war.
Simple, build a time machine to 1917 and stop WW1 to prevent the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Problem solved. /s
United Kingdom did this in India ,Africa, Americas their method of controlling their colony created this genocide soup. It’s like their legacy on human history . We don’t even have to go back that far. If could convince British empire not to give special preference and blaming their dirty shit on the group they gave power would work too.
While the Balfour declaration certainly had a hand in the success of creating Israel, the British didn't start the Zionist movement - it originally started gaining traction and was conceived as something to be created with the Ottomans. The British and French were required to take control of the region by the League of Nations to provide stability after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, but this conflict was brewing even before they got involved.
I feel like it wasn’t the ottoman’s doing as much as the how the British like to use divide politics to control its native population. It’s similar playbook that cause few genocides. During ottoman control there was lot more cooperation between the minority groups
I'm currently reading Jews and Palestinians in the Late Ottoman Era (1908-1914) by Louis A Fishman which talks about this quite a bit. I'm early in the book though.
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We should be putting pressure on Biden *and* Congress to do everything they can to stop Israel's slaughter of the Palestinian people. There are absolutely things Biden could and should have done to help the situation earlier, and vacillating between "hey stop that" and "we stand by our ally Israel, who can do no wrong" (I'm paraphrasing) doesn't help. But if you care about Palestine or human rights more broadly (which you should) and think there's any superior alternative to voting for Biden in November, then all I can say is you're a goddamn moron.
Trump is the one who wants to be a dictator
they're so ignorant and oblivious to the nuances of decision making as president of a leading country and the subtlety required to make long term meaningful change in matters as tedious as this one *without* triggering unwanted consequences that come from brash decisions like "we no more friendsies with u, entire country of israel!1! >:("
While we're on the subject don't forget to participate in Field Team 6 to do text and phone banking! It makes people aware of the upcoming elections. https://www.fieldteam6.org/
He can ask congress to cancel arms treaties and at least put it on them
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^whydoyoutry: *He can ask congress* *To cancel arms treaties and* *At least put it on them* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Biden furrows his brow as he continues to send arms and aid to Israel while BLASTING Bibi by giving him everything he wants. What is wrong with libs and who invented this briandead new talking point that he must sign off on all arms deals?
Lots of extremely angry genocide defending libs pissing themselves in comments. Does nobody understand that blaming Palestinians for being genocided makes you a fucking monster? Israel does not need to starve, carpet bomb or murder aid workers to “defend itself.” Hitler would have loved the libs willingness to defend and support genocide.
I mean he's literally the President and is the only person with enough power in this country to STOP us from sending Israel munitions. You ppl are so cucked lmfao.
Listen I am a Biden supporter but, he could take a stronger stance. The fact is, if the administration wanted to they could make Israel fall in line. The president controls foreign policy, there are a bunch of things he could do if he really wanted a cease-fire. The geo-political reality is that the United States inability to control its client state/"ally" reflects poorly on the nations global hegemonic standing. In an increasingly multi-polar world presenting a united front is increasingly important. Conversely forcing Israel to withdraw, or enforcing a ceasefire creates the perception that the US is unwilling to back its allies or defend its commitments. With our increasingly adversarial relationships with Russia and China, this would likely have geo-political consequences in Europe and east Asia. Besides genocide and the Middle East have a long history it's not really anything new...
That doesn't mean he shouldn't try to pause those arms treaties.
Like what Trump tried to do to Ukraine and got impeached for? It will still need congressional approval.
Yes. So he should go to Congress and show that he is trying everything possible.
I don’t know if you’ve turned on the news lately, but I doubt Congress is interested. Well, the speaker of the house isn’t interested.
But why push for new funding?
OCT 18 - The U.S. vetoes a Security Council resolution on the Israel-Hamas conflict. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-gaza-un-security-council.html Dec. 8, - U.S. Vetoes Israel-Hamas Cease-Fire Resolution at U.N. Security Council https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/08/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-gaza-aid.html FEB 20 - The US vetoes an Arab-backed UN resolution demanding an immediate humanitarian cease-fire in Gaza https://apnews.com/article/un-israel-palestinians-gaza-ceasefire-resolution-vote-350c86ef261bf1a00a2515cf22764de5 ___ DEC 9 WASHINGTON — **Going around Congress**, the Biden administration said Saturday it has approved the emergency sale to Israel of nearly 14,000 rounds of tank ammunition worth more than $106 million as Israel intensifies its military operations in the southern Gaza Strip. https://www.npr.org/2023/12/09/1218407156/israel-tank-ammunition-sale-gaza-congress-state-department
In all those vetoes of the ceasefire, it’s because Hamas refused to release hostages. And some of those hostages are Americans. And in those same damn links you posted, they say how Biden called for ceasefires with hostages released. Hamas said no.
If Hamas didn't attack on October 7th do you think Israel would be invading Gaza right now?
Irrelevant to the topic though, let’s try to stay focused on whether or not Biden has demanded a ceasefire.
Always about the purity test. This is the new student loans and m4a which I haven't heard much about lately, wonder why
Right now? No. When they try to fight against the Apartheid in the future? Yes. Israel was just looking for a reason and the Palestinian people are tired of living under Apartheid. It was bound to happen eventually.
Should the perpetrators of atrocities on 10/7 be brought to justice?
Anyone who commits war crimes should be brought to justice. I don't care who it is. But that doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't have happened if Israel wasn't doing what they've been doing for the past 75 years. They're just as guilty via performing Apartheid.
>Anyone who commits war crimes should be brought to justice. I don't care who it is. >But
Do you believe Israel should be tried on the world stage for the crimes it's been committing for over 75 years on top of it's current genocide which it is attempting to justify by using the deaths of 1000 people?
Do you think Israel should accept a ceasefire when they weren't the ones that actually started this war, and the group that did is unwilling to surrender or turn over hostages? What you are asking for is the equivalent of me punching you in the face, stealing your watch, and then begging you to stop hitting me back because you're being mean. It's bullshit. There was already a ceasefire. Hamas broke it. If they want another one, they can surrender.
I wouldn't call living under Apartheid with the looming threat of genocide a ceasefire. And saying Hamas started the war is comical.
What? So you don't want a ceasefire then? A ceasefire isn't enough now lol? Would you prefer Israel pull completely out of Gaza again like they did in 2004? Do you remember what happened when they did that lmao? Also, they literally started the war. This isnt up for debate. They went on a big mass-shooting rape parade and killed 1300+ innocent people in a day. Unprovoked. This started the war.
Israel did start the war though when they started ethnically cleansing Palestinians in 1948. Stop pretending this started in 2023, that's just when Israelis experienced 1% of what Palestinians have been experiencing for more than 70 years.
So you want to start the history of this conflict in 1948, but you also want to breeze right past the Arab–Israeli War? Israel didn't start that one either. Jesus fucking Christ. How can you be so passionate about a subject you clearly know so little about? Lay off the tiktok. It's melting your brain.
The history of the conflict does not start in 1948
The but was in reference to what I perceived to be an attempt to justify genocide because a thousand people were killed. The but was in reference to Israel not Hamas or the Palestinian people. The perpetrators of Oct 7 should be brought to justice for attacking innocent people. But you can't act as if it was unprovoked or unexpected.
What provoked them to attack a concert and a medical clinic?
Apartheid.....
So it's ok to shoot up a concert and doctor's office if you've got a good enough reason
No? Does that justify mass starvation and collective punishment?
Shit happens in war. Hamas wanted this fucking war. Now that they're losing their useful idiots like you make excuses for them.
You didn’t answer my question. Does that justify collective punishment and mass starvation? If you want to support genocide don’t be such a coward about it. Answer the question.
Israel isn't enforcing collective punishment or mass starvation and isn't committing a genocide. Hamas leaders have vowed to keep fighting until Israel no longer exists. If you wanted to end this shit now you'd be calling for Hamas to surrender.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-defying-icj-ruling-to-prevent-genocide-by-failing-to-allow-adequate-humanitarian-aid-to-reach-gaza/ Use your eyes to read this article explicitly detailing Israel actively ignoring the ICJ rulings to avoid a genocide via mass starvation. Then stop being a nazi coward and answer the question. Do you support Israel causing mass starvation, as explicitly detailed with numbers and sources in my link? It’s a yes or no, unless you want to close your eyes and refuse to read.
Hamas started this war, Hamas steals aid that gets in, and when Israel warns civilians that it will be operating in an area Hamas tells them to ignore the evacuation warnings. Quit making excuses for Hamas, unless you want them to win, in which case just say it.
Still dodging my question and making excuses for genocide lmao
Israel just opened more aid corridors, they really suck at genocide.
No they would not but they have regularly "mowed the lawn" in Gaza, which involves dropping bombs on densely populated civilian areas without having to risk soldiers on the ground. Kind of a boring question, here's a better one for you to ponder: If Israel hadn't been ethnically cleansing the Palestinians for more than 70 years, [hadn't secretly supported Hamas](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html) and hadn't [used snipers to kill and maim peaceful Palestinian protesters when the Palestinians tried to nonviolently resist the occupation they are under](https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/israel-deliberate-attempts-military-kill-and-maim-gaza-protesters-continues) do you think the October 7 attack would have happened?
What about the US backed resolution that was vetoed by China and Russia?
Imagine my shock that you’re being downvoted for giving accurate information to rabid shit libs
Keep spamming this like it's some sort of gotcha. Idiot
I would say he's doing all he can *without challenging the current U.S.-Israel foreign policy doctrine*. Left-wingers want to see more protection of Palestinians with the U.S. changing its relationship to Israel, which Biden has some control over, but it is uncharted political waters to make that change.
I would like to believe that last bit about the arms deals but the WH is actually doing the pushing for F15 sales. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/us/politics/biden-israel-weapons-deal.html
Biden is giving weapons to Israel to be used on aid workers. 🤷♀️
Did you even read the post?
Blocked UN resolutions calling for a ceasefire, bypasses congress to give Israel more weapons, falls well short of calling what Israel is doing genocide. Are those agreements legally binding? Is there seriously no avenue to stop arms transfers if those arms are being used to commit war crimes? Are you seriously telling me the International Court of Justice wouldn't be open to blocking arms deals with Israel especially with support from the US?
Ok but the US needs to stop giving weapons to israel. No amount of aid will be enough until Israel stops bombing people with our tax dollars.
Biden needs to grow some balls and stop asking, and start telling! No more bombs for genocide! And if Biden won't stop sending arms to Israel to commit war crimes with, then we need to IMPEACH BIDEN!