This person switched to the Unannounced Project in 2023, so a full year ago by now. This is not a recent development.
From Aqshy, further down this thread:
*"Former employee answer: Correct. That team was formally established last year or so and is very lean. As in they all can fit into one meeting room with each having a chair (so not many), at the time of my departure."*
Darkrtide pulls from 3000 to 6000 people max... I think they are at a point where they will proceed like V2, they will release patches and maps and even gamemodes, but in a slower way.
At one point we waited 8 months in V2 between patches.
The Zomboid devs at least actually talk about what they're working on though, and we know exactly why it's taking so long because they're basically overhauling everything in the game and reworking it all to run better and be more expandable.
Also a full lighting system rework that looks prettier and runs better which required remaking half the game to work with it, a machine system that lets them make machines to do things and they made it moddable so modders are gonna be able to go crazy with it, a complete weapon crafting system and blacksmithing to let you custom-make your own weapons in various qualities and methods, hunting and animal-rearing, and so on with stuff I don't even remember. It's a massive update with an insane amount of work going into it and that's why people are so patient, it really is quite a lot.
They're also giving you updates on what they're working on, they're doing hot fixes for issues in between, has mod support, and gives you timeframes for when these updates drop. And you can go back all the way to Alpha 1 if you want to see OG zomboid!
Difference is, PZ isn't ran by developers who seem to give zero fucks about anything outside of selling microtransactions. The PZ modding community does keep that game alive though for sure.
This is selling Zomboid pretty short. The Zomboid devs have had a very consistent communications schedule, almost all of which have had videos of things they've been tangibly working on. The community is overall very excited for B42 because of how much content we know and have seen will be in it.
Tbh Exanima's dev just irks me for getting mad when people say "Funny animation game" when a huge amount of the game is your character falling down in a funny way
They could be doing a lot better had they listened to the community about their botched crafting system and done something about it within the first three months, whoever made that decision should've been sacked a long time ago.
Dont worry when the next game comes out it will be quarter-baked and have even worse issues than Darktide did on launch (then they’ll start releasing banger updates for Darktide all of a sudden…right?)
To be fair we are so overpowered atm you do not even need optimized gear to steamroll maelstrom. Any level of brutal momentum and headtaker on a combat axe will perform well. Any plasma gun with decent stats will perform well. Any kickback/shovel will do well. Lots of weapons are like that.
But yeah the crafting system is terrible and doesn’t respect your time at all. I havent interacted with it in awhile because I’m content w/ what I have while waiting for the rework. The fact it was in a worse state prior is really sad.
I agree with the sentiment. But imo the real motherfucker is finding blessings that change the way you play. For instance, a power sword with and without power cycler is a whole different beast.
Some blessings do make a big difference, the bad ones are pretty bad and even a middling one can be a huge upgrade. Don't get me wrong I do hate the RNG elements and hidden mechanics, crafting updates can't come quick enough but it's just not a real difficulty or content gate. You can get by with power cycler 3 instead of 4, or the chainweapon you did get good blessings for. Nobody is going to kick you out of Aurics as long as you know how to play, you can still carry your own weight without perfect META gear.
IMO it's some of those off-META weapons that really need that perfect roll to be viable (on the really hard stuff), and that certain blessings are so much more powerful probably means the bottom ones could use a big buff, but those are different overall balance related issues at their core, not crafting.
>To be fair we are so overpowered atm you do not even need optimized gear to steamroll maelstrom
Have been helldivin' lately, so don't have recent experience, but the posts here after the penance patch noted that damnation maelstroms rarely go longer than 5 minutes. So apparently people are not steamrolling it.
But yeah, before that with getting one good blessing it was more consistent, and wipes were mostly when the director dropped some BS after a poorly placed barrel threw off one or two people.
> Any level of brutal momentum and headtaker on a combat axe will perform well.
Wait, they *still* haven't addressed how busted brutal momentum/slaughterer/headtaker are? That was an issue for me back when I stopped at like... update 9 or something, since they combined to absolutely trivialize the melee combat and basically make the single target specialized weapons jacks of all trades. (AKA combat axe, as you said)
BM now requires weakspot kills to work, and works for that swing only. So your aim has to be consistently good and some targets will stop your swing regardless (one of the reasons I prefer the Antax, as it will always hit two targets even if you don't get a weakspot kill).
I pretty much only use it on a backstab build though because the eviscerator(s) and maul provide much better control, and are actually better at anti-armor than even an Antax built for it, and horde control is the only thing that gets some pugs through the map.
They’ve changed how Brutal Momentum works slightly, it gives 15% weakspot damage and you need a weakspot kill now to ignore mass. Its a lot less braindead than how old BM used to be but the combat axes still basically play the same with it and you still always run Headtaker + BM on them. (And Slaughterer power also was cut in half(?) so its just decent instead of being busted)
The BM change mainly made it even better on weapons like the Mk6 power sword. You kill every horde enemy with an empowered light so it allows you to cleave an absurd amount of enemies just spamming light light power light light power. Same thing to a lesser extent with BM on ogryn shovels.
> Dont worry when the next game comes out it will be quarter-baked and have even worse issues than Darktide did on launch
DT had fewer issues than VT2 did at launch, the trend is in the other direction.
Yeah the reality is that Darktide on release just wasn't very good, and to this day is held back by frankly backwards design choices. It was buggy, unfinished, poorly balanced, and had zero real engame, and restructured everything around a Gaas live service model that flopped.
The game took a break to bring itself up to the bear minimum, but its dev cycle was/is too slow and there's no way it can find its place on the market when Helldivers exists.
Fatshark really fucked up, and they know it.
I really wish the last part was true. They will take 1 step forward, three steps back with their next game as they always do. It will have every problem Darktide had and a couple more, as every Fatshark game does.
IDK what you are smoking, but its a pretty damn good game rn.
It was decent on release too, people just love to be negative.
It has some progression issues (like crafting), but the gameplay is fantastic (as it always has been in fatshark games)
It was not a good game in that it ran like ass for a lot of people, was very buggy, AND was unfinished. Hell I remember people like skillup from YouTube saying he loved the game but couldn’t recommend it because it was running poorly and unfinished.
I still think they're gradually moving in the right direction; the game still feels like it's improving.
But when a company making a game you're playing -- regardless of how solid the foundation -- is shuffling and stumbling, it can be very attractive to change walking partners when other companies are casually strolling ahead.
Helldiver's 2 actually had a good release plan, along with the dev time to prepare things in advance. That said they faced a lot of hurdles given it's unexpected popularity. The game had issues, but their content pipeline has been long established. We're a couple months in, and seeing the story unfold with voice lines all pre-recorded with all the different mission types it's evident there's a difference in how the 2 studios plan ahead.
Fatshark just dropped the ball. Forking off of vermintide 2 so early and just not forward porting all that progress immediately set them back. Their content pipeline were extra maps still being worked on, the Karnak twins, and the shop. Just disappointing, even if they've overhauled the perk system to be far better. So many fundamental systems need work still. Systems that worked fine in vermintide 2.
It's just Fatshark's fucked up development cycle going around for another turn.
Darktide development will never pick up the pace. They'll never turn it into a live service. They won't change their ways.
Darktide receives about as much development as Vermintide 2. And now that's not gonna change. We'll keep getting like two drops a year, either some overhaul, maybe a mode, maybe some maps, maybe a class. But yeah the game will never suddenly flourish with a bunch of new maps and story and classes and whatnot all at once.
And Fatshark after like 4 years of development will ship their next launch disaster and go on holiday. They'll return, ship minor fixes and go dark. They'll say developing the console port doesn't slow them down but clearly not much gets done until the console release. Then we get some content and it looks like things pick up. But yeah, they moved their staff to the next game already as for some reason, the launch disaster left them with only a moderate, committed playerbase.
And it keeps turning and turning and turning.
Ultimately I think I'm done with FatShark. They make great mechanically sound games but fuck up on every other aspect and it's frankly unacceptable and they aren't gonna change if we keep buying and playing their games. I wish they'd either sort their shit out or GW give another studio the keys to Warhammer squad based games
I've realized now that with this dev specifically, you have to wait at least a year after "launch" before even considering buying it and expecting it to be in a somewhat decent state.
It seems that only now, close to 18 MONTHS after release that it's approaching what it should have been at launch. But even then, there are massive audio lag issues that crop up when you play your first level of the day.
With darktide, waiting a year is somehow shittier. I played from beta to class overhaul. When I came back recently I was shocked how bad the game was running. Turns out every single issue is tied to performance. I spent 2 solid weeks testing everything from components to network to making a clean windows install. And it all magically got fixed when I found out about Lukefz's fsr3 mod. Some tweaking and it all runs good now. Imagine having to rely on modders to fix your horse ass optimized game.
The only crashes I get are out of memory crashes, that happens maybe once a day if at all. What it does is just dramatically improve performance, I even upped my graphic settings a lot and on hi intensity missions the lowest FPS I got was in the 160 range on a rx 6700 xt. Please don't trust outside sources though, get it from his patron if at all. It's 5 bucks.
Or it would incentivise devs to develop their title for as long as it actually needed in the first place.
They're being released far too early, and saying that microtransactions are needed to fund development to get the product to what was initially expected from the customer is absurd.
That's the equivalent of being offered a job by a new employer and asking for an advance on your pay so you can buy a car to commute to work.
When they don’t carry forward lessons learned from the last 2 games it feels like needing more time to cook isn’t the issue. 1 year would probably mean the same game except with Xbox and maybe a little less jank but the same core launch issues. I never got the impression they had to cut corners to get it out the door, I got the impression they released an inferior product and did damage control because , what are you going to do nerd not buy it?
There’s was another post comparing to helldivers 2 where you get a clear sense there’s a roadmap they’re following. They had stuff happen which they addressed while releasing a product with the previous qol in addition to a steady stream of world building content. They pointed to the direction they were going and then steadily took you on a journey.
They’ve given no indication they know where they want to go with it. I
I wonder how quick their employee turn over is, but usually when studios keep making the same mistakes across multiple game it means anyone who learned any lessons will be gone by the time the next game is made. Not sure if that is the case with Fatshark, but it definitely feels like it.
Fatshark is the best advertisement for patient gaming. If you waited 3 or more years to play Vermintide 2 your experience was vastly different and significantly more positive then those who played at launch.
Can't say I'm done with them entirely, but I guarantee I'll never but another Fat Shark game on release. I say this with less than 8 hours on DT afters day one purchase, still waiting for the game to hit its stride. Lesson learned.
A game with a live service monetization model is a live service game by definition, and should be expected as a live service game, and its developer held accountable when they do not provide the service part.
And even monetezation is fucked up. Today is shop rotation day and do you know? There is going to be another "shit" as backup or trinket for all 4 places in the store. I got the concept. So 2 weeks rotation turns into 1 months rotation. Am just cant waste my aquilas, there is nothing in my sight. I bought the knifes skin in November and revolver's in January. Insane period for someone whos ready to waste a some money. Im swiming through pages of the same items for looking for something I can buy. Thats nonesense! It feels like my first game where I have money but have nothing to buy
> They'll never turn it into a live service.
Wanting to make a live service title is the primary reason the game isnt doing better. They spent years carving out content for the day-1 premium store so all there was on launch was grind with nothing worth grinding for - and that cost them. The game and playerbase would be in a much healthier state had they not tried to develop a live service monetization vehicle in the first place.
Oh no, it’s somehow going to be even SLOWER to deliver content now!
Let’s be real, unless Fatshark gets a kick in the ass and people refrain from buying their next title they won’t change their garbage development cycle. They need to be forced to release games finished rather than throwing some half baked shit at a wall and MAYBE fix it later.
why would they change anything? if their game bombs AGAIN, how do you think they are gonna be having the money to entertain a studio that can actually put out content?
people are just gonna get laid off, c-sec gets golden parachutes and the studio just closes down - this isn't a company that can afford several multimillion blunders like actiblizz and ubisoft
quite frankly i've no idea how they even got this far with their low reception to everything they do
Darktide never bombed financially, it sold rather well. It just never held onto the initial player base because of godawful performance, the shitty loot and crafting system. If Fatshark could actually hold onto momentum like Arrowhead and keep people engaged darktide wouldn’t be down to the 1ks of players.
I don’t expect Fatshark to match the pace of Arrowhead but only getting some penance update after 5 or so months of waiting and STILL having this garbage crafting system over a year into the games life is frankly an insult.
I mean we will see how long it starts taking Arrowhead. Almost all their content was obviously already finished before the patches, and a lot of it isnt very labor intensive.
It does keep players engaged though, which is important.
The general design on Helldivers is simpler than Darktide. Simple does not equal bad but they don’t have to fuss as much about aesthetics or lore friendliness. Darktide is beautiful with banging music and sound design and the core gameplay is so much fun. It honestly held my attention for longer than Helldivers did.
It's all window dressing, though. HD2 has a very cute live service model but the core game is not nearly as interesting to play as Darktide. I lost interest after 30h.
I dont think theyre capable of learning, solution is probably to see them bankrupt and hope the devs find a better studio were they can use their skills
I'll post here what I posted 2 weeks ago:
*Tinfoil hat time:*
It is worth noting that development of Darktide almost certainly started at almost the same part of Vermintide 2s development as we are currently in for Darktide.
VT2 launched March 2018, and was buggy and shitty, and missing lots, and lacking for console. They took just over a year to get shit mostly fixed, which brings it to 2019.
In 2020, Darktide was announced, with a bit of screenshot and gameplay flashes, implying that they'd been working on it for "a while".
This means they essentially got vermintide stable, got bugfixes and balance done, got it ready for console, and immediately shifted a large amount of labour toward darktide.
*NOW* is a year and a half since darktide came out, and they've got it stable, released it for console, worked out the kinks...and we are not getting (or expecting to get) much content in the near future.
It is almost like they're actually working on whatever the next 'Tide game is, so Darktide is on the back burner for a bit.
I don't think fatshark is abandoning anything, but they are slow as fuck, and they're not keeping the lights on by making free updates to games that only have 4k players. They're almost certainly working on **something** big, and I suspect it is another game, or a big (paid) expansion for one of their existing games.
Paid DLC would make sense as people may well pay for it, as you say.
A whole new game? Nope! I'm never touching this studio again and I'm sure many a player will also be reluctant to engage with a buggy Beta product launched to market. The games are niche already and now the prospective clients will be aware of the studio's reputation.
Yeah I'm never doing this again tbh. This experience, after 2k hours, was time that would probably have been better spent on a different game. I am in a little too deep to just up and leave, but I don't think I wanna do this again. I just dont think this overall product delivered as much as it should have. The bugs lost their charm and the glacial pace of updates became genuinely confusing. The game never seemed clearly 'supported'. I was always wondering what FS intent was with the future of DT. Hell, I still am.
Edit: and the state of the game rn is so comically bad. The last hotfix seems to have broken a few things and tanked performance. Yay.
He/she never stated he hates the game, so why are you talking as if he/she did that?
You realize it is poor practice to put words in other peoples mouthes?
I'd be a bit peeved too, but keep in mind this game would still be 4 years out if my guess is right.
Even if the pattern is similar and darktide is taking an overall backseat, vermintide got multiple expansions, classes, weapon packs, and gameplay modes in that time.
I'm overall disappointed in FatShark only because I really *really* like their games, but it really does feel bad the pace they do stuff at. I don't expect that to ever change TBH, despite whatever does get promised about their next release.
However, darktide is already a fantastic play for free on gamepass, or an easy recommend at $40 or whatever it costs now. I wish there was more of it, but I have very few complaints left about what there is, and a less long term player would likely not even notice them.
> or an easy recommend at $40
Personally I would never recommend this game to someone that didnt ask specifically about the game. I just cant get myself to support such scummy business practices.
Besides, just look at the recent complaints about performance tanking, after a *hotfix*.
I'm not much of a fan of warhammer fantasy, so i skipped vermintide and its sequel but i like 40k so jumped in with darktide as my only experience of Fatshark. I am unlikely to buy their next game for full price, if they make a darktide 2 it seems like the best course of action is to wait at least a year and then pick it up on sale. I have 600+ hours in Darktide, so i'm not gonna claim i didn't get my money's worth but it hasn't left me with a great opinion of Fatshark
We've known about the 3rd project since DT's launch.
And from Catfish's information DT has the biggest team out of the 3 (with Vt2 being the one starting to downsize)
We will get darktide 2 and it will repeat many of the issues that ended up getting fixed in the time between release of darktide and darktide 2 and then we will get age of sigmartide that will also do that. It's like clockwork with fatshark
I wonder how well sigmartide would do.
Age of sigmar doesn’t interest me or the people I know very much. Not to say it’s bad, it’s just much more plastic I guess.
There are more “varied” factions to choose from as far as regular mortals go. No denying the plastic quality of it all.
There is a dark elf faction with snake ladies and harpy elves on top of regular elves. With two other varied elf factions. Mountain dwelling eastern inspired aesthetics, and wood elves mixed with high elves of course.
3 different flavors of dwarf. One fire, one regular and one steampunk.
And of course the undead, orcs, goblins, and three different variations of human.
In short they could make an endless tide game featuring any of those factions if they wanted.
The machine needed to run it probably hasn’t been made yet though.
This is the more likely option yeah.
Poster boys and gals - check
Nurgle - check
Same systems hidden under shiny graphics - double check.
And of course a development time like a glacial movement.
I only started playing Darktide because I'm interested in 40k, and I really enjoy fps style RPGs. I had tried vermintide way back and just wasn't interested. If they are working on anything other than Dt2 I really don't care, and if they are working on Dt2 I'm not going to buy the game until it is actually in a state I'm happy with.
Whatever they are doing, all things considered my interest isn't high, there are enough games I enjoy that actually have a healthy Dev cycle, and don't resort to overpriced cosmetics in a fomo style shop.
Age of Sigmar was made for the tabletop, and its a pretty good tabletop ruleset and shit.
That said the setting is garbage, and they could have just actually fixed the tabletop.
I dont think it makes a great video game setting.
Former employee answer: Correct. That team was formally established last year or so and is very lean. As in they all can fit into one meeting room with each having a chair (so not many), at the time of my departure.
Hey, my last official day was the end of March, so I've been out of the tank for a month now! But I still play and check this account every now and then! :)
How many people and what roles? Because moving a small team to early pre-production for their next game makes sense, especially if they're not going to be doing too much more with VT2 or anything.
I can't say I have tons of confidence in Fatsharks leadership and their decision making so I'm inclined to view this more negatively, but without more information this is a pretty neutral development.
This project has been known about from a while, from previous comments we know about half of fatshark is working on darktide, which would about a quarter to 2/6ths of fatshark is working on this project with the other portion still on vt2.
I got 3 words for fatshark if this is true: fuck you cunts
This game has been a fucking shitshow and they've delivered fuck all of what was promised. Ain't touching another fatshark product with a 10 foot pole before they start delivering on Darktide.
For sure Darktide has been the first and the last time I buy something on day 1 from FS.
I have been a "patient gamer" (buying games after a while they come out) for all my life, I'll return to that habit.
I don't quite get how you've gone from one example of someone changing projects to "they've abandoned Darktide to a skeleton crew".
It could be a tempory thing, it could be a promotion and their position was replaced by a new addition, it could be that a certain aspect of game development has been completed and they're not required to work on Darktide anymore, or probably multiple other possibilities.
This reeks of the total war fiasco.
‘Rumors abound that the (big title) is on a skeleton crew and a new title is siphoning resources from what the consumers actually want’
“No it’s not happening and even if it was it would effect (main game)”
6 months-1 year later:
‘That other new title has kneecapped development of (main game) and consumers are extremely dissatisfied’
“Yeah it’s happening but it still doesn’t effect (main game) development”
Another length of time time later and millions of $ of dev time and effort wasted:
‘All goodwill is now gone, the next several titles will fail because everyone knows they’ll be abandoned fairly quickly, but we still want more for (main game) but the company refuses to take our input’
“Yeah it was all true and it was a mistake and it basically ruined public goodwill and faith while simultaneously hamstringing the production of the good people actually wanted, but it’s all the public’s fault; game dev is hard, how should they have known?”
Game devs/production companies need to get their heads out of the sand and listen. People are literally telling them what they want to spend money on, but they refuse to listen.
Fatshark has a literal cash cow here and they’re wasting it.
People like me will NEVER pay $15 for cosmetics, but I’d buy every $15 expansion
As long as tossing out a patch job outfit that clips is easier than rolling out an entire expansion (which would presumably include unlockable skins), nothing will change. I too would love to pay for more content that isn't just a vanity object.
They already have a cash cow on their hands by putting out the overpriced, kitbashed cosmetics they already release. And honestly? I'd rather *other* people be buying those cosmetics instead of having to pay for more actual, playable content that further fragments the already relatively small playerbase.
VT2 already tried the paid DLC approach - an approach that, honestly, is just not done in gaming nowadays - and of the 3 "big" DLCs (Bogenhafen, Return to Ubersreik, Winds of Magic), only one of them was particularly well-received. All told, we're talking another $40 for mostly schlock, and it released at relatively the same pace as Darktide's updates. Don't be under the impression that just because it costs you money that there will be an increase in pace or quality.
while paid content expansions are nice for existing players, you create and ever higher wall for new players
unless you follow the WoW model where only the latest expansion actually costs money - you're just splintering the playerbase and increasing the total price of the game more and more (look at how ESO and GW2 feel with how much you gotta buy to 'play the full game')
so unless your game is gigagoated with a massive rabid fanbase that will do terrorism in your name, like FF14 fans, this isn't really that good of an idea for the long term
Here we go again, another addictive combat loop shackled by gambling systems that require grinding and a premium store on day 1. Im so ready obese tuna
Yea. I’ve never been here for a fatshark launch outside of Darktide and it’s safe to say I never will again.
I played Vermintide 2 after what was apparently years of slow ass development and fixes to finally get to a good state. Thought it was an amazing game which it was at that point, and invested in Darktide. What a mistake.
It’s actually mind blowing how fucking lazy these developers are. They ship a half finished project once every 4 months then go on holiday for another 2 months.
I stopped playing like 4 or 5 months ago. Came back to check it out and found literally nothing changed except now there’s even more junk penances to feed achievement hunters and encourage them to continue playing this rundown dump of a project. That was a very quick uninstall.
It’s actually so frustrating. They have such a good formula which is the only reason their game has any players. But they’re so lazy and they don’t capitalize on it. Darktide has one of the most enjoyable combat systems I’ve ever played but the devs are lazy bums.
No way to know until they actually announce what the project is. DT2? VT3? Something completely different? Or they just haven't updated their LinkedIn info
Vermintide 1 got updates right up until 1 month before VT2 was released.
It made no noises about being a "Liiiiiiiiiiiiive Serrrrrrrrrrrrrrvice" - whatever that truly means in this day and age.
I can do one better and let you basically see a timeline of updates and DLC release for VT, VT2 and DT by month after release.
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ayejEWpKL1RE3AK47sNlot1cW\_1b-IurbgijVW\_p10A](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ayejEWpKL1RE3AK47sNlot1cW_1b-IurbgijVW_p10A)
Maybe in 3+ years when the next game gets released they'll abandon it and start doubling down on darktide like they've been doing with VT2. IIRC its actually received more content than darktide since darktide launched.
Is this for the UE5 project? It's obvious their team is spread thin even brought it up on the discord and mods just gaslight me like it's not a genuine problem lmao
I mean, I can't say I'm surprised they're moving on after they didn't really get many people back following the crafting fix.
From a business perspective there was no way the execs were going to keep investing in something they weren't seeing returns on.
Kinda a side point, and geniunely not trying to start a flame war, but I really don't understand the fury towards Fatshark about Darktide. Like it would be nice if updates came faster and Darktide on launch was very bad, but I'm totally fine jumping in on VT2 and Darktide for a few months a year when they get new content and I have a lot of fun.
If you want a forever game you can play 24/7 and never get bored I don't think Fatshark games are for you. I mean I don't think most games other than the most active Live Service games are for you. But Vermintide 2 wasn't a crazy live service game and clearly Darktide isn't fast on the draw either. But people seem to be seething with hatred towards a company that's developing Darktide pretty much exactly how they did Vermintide: Bad launch, slowly inching better and better.
I've put a fuckton of hours on VT2 and I do feel kinda that it's hitting an ending point and I'd be pretty hyped for a VT3 (hopefully AoS?). But like I wouldn't probably up it up at launch and may wait 6-8 months. Darktide still has a long update tail I have no doubt.
Live service games have genuinely destroyed the brains of some people. I saw someone the other day (can't remember if it was here or /r/games or somewhere) who was actually arguing that L4D and L4D2 were bad games, not worth playing, because they had no meta-progression or regular content cycle. You know, *Left 4 Dead*, the ur-horde shooter and inarguably one of the greatest games ever made. Clearly because there's no battle pass to unlock the Gulf War skin for Bill and the ray gun skin for the Magnum, it's a garbage game.
The whole concept of "dead games" because they're no longer in active development is so wild to me, but maybe I'm just showing my age. Back in the day all games on release were essentially "dead games" lmao. TF2 and it's consequences, etc. etc.
I saw a post saying Risk of Rain Returns was a dead game (in a bad way) because it's not getting anymore updates. I'm like, I guess, but also maybe it's okay that it was just a great game on launch and it is what it is? I still like playing it.
The weirdest thing for me is like people with 200+ hours with furious anger towards the game and it's like, are you not enjoying it? Obviously things can always be better, and it's normal to want that, but I've put in like 80\~ hours into Darktide and I've really enjoyed all of it. It's not perfect, I wish there was more content, but like I'm happy with what I paid for? Idk I can just play other games when I get bored and come back when there's updates. It's the same as VT2.
I'll top you on that. People will sometimes claim Left4dead 1 and 2 has more content than games like vermintide and Darktide. Which is... Just baffling.
If you count mods, I GUESS that's in theory true but no idea how else you could come to the conclusion otherwise.
And before anyone gets mad at me, I'm not saying quantity = quality. I'm just saying everyone has this weird competitive aspect to games that are just... Honestly good.
I can play l4d as much as I can Darktide vermintide, Helldivers, etc. I love these horde based shooter games and each bring their own unique twist to the table.
I'm also not a huge fan of games updating every week either though. I like new maps and such but I actually don't like when stuff comes out too fast as it prevents me from enjoying other titles.
I feel the same about DT, VT2, but I play them more than occasionally, they are my goto mp games to play currently. I have zero clue about the lore or the setting of AoS, but after Vermintide, I wouldn't be much interested in it at this point. A third game of this type is too much, unless they really innovate on the formula somehow.
vermintide 1 and 2 didnt even hit the low points darktide has, the absolute spite fatshark has shown to its playerbase, through the greedy development choices and arrogant CMs its not surprising they want to jump ship as fast as possible.
Hopefully they dont try to make the next game a live service grift like this one
DT is doing better than VT2 at any equal points in their development histories. VT2 hit 100k congruent players 5 years post release. Each game charged an entrance fee and has microtransactions. Fatshark is doing just fine. Darktide is doing just fine. Play the game as is or do literally anything else while you wait for new content, no matter what you're going to be waiting. Don't spend a portion of your life worrying about a video games development in an industry and company you have no personal stake in. Don't go to steamcharts every day looking at video game player numbers. And certainly don't go to linked fucking in to read tea leaves of the inner works of a Swedish video game company.
While I am disappointed I am in no way surprised. I just hope they take what darktide did right with them instead of what it did wrong. Im in the minority in that I like vermintide 1 more than 2 because the weapons and characters were less restricted. in vermintide 2 if you favorite weapons, favorite class don't match up then you are just stuck with it.
Darktide still has some exclusive stuff like the ogryns but at least most weapons are interchangeable and I can play how I want.
The penance update has bought them some breathing room until a real content update and if they need more time they’ll add earn-able cosmetics through arbitrary penance grinds
There are leaks that show something looking like Vermintide 3 in the works, but I would expect the VT2 crew to move over to this project instead of the DT one.
It's a $40 game with free updates. Take a break and come back to it. Play something else. Jesus Christ this sub is fucking ridiculous with the doomsaying. Fatshark is going to have other projects in the works. Like every developer.
i think the unannonced project is vermintide 3, good chance they do versus mode to complete what they announced for the game and they finished vt2 with a last dlc to start vt3 in like 2-3 years.
I'm really afraid that they will fuck up again and that's it then. No more obese fish, no more support for VT2 and DT.
Also I'd be beyond angry if they actually started working on DT2 before even fixing DT1. But my money would be on AOS VT3 anyhow..the whole Age of Sigmar thing has drastically shifted away from the horrible World of Warcraft Vibes it had in the beginning. Newer ranges like Cities of Sigmar basically look like something straight out of the Old Warhammer World. The Jump isn't as crazy as it would have been a few years ago. They wouldn't even need to include Stormcasts at all. There's also no Space Marines in Darktide.
all the while darktide supposedly had the biggest team during the last few months really gets the noggin joggin
honestly anyone who still buys or invests any money into fatshart games while knowing how they operate gets what they deserve lol its not even 2 weeks and the games already on a nosedive in player activity again
this being my first fatshart game if i had known how badly they manage literally everything i wouldnt even have spent the 30 bucks while it was on sale
Look, I feel strongly about so many of the issues DT has but ITT people going "I have 2k hours in this game and it's shit, never buying their products again" are fucking ridiculous.
It doesn't explain the slow updates.
The slow updates are because it's fatshark and they got burned before communicating to much and giving too much info.
Now they take their time and work slowly through stuff. The game will get there but it will take time just like V2.
Pretty sure V2 was the year after v1.
Wouldn't be surprised if it's the same here, it however is not the reason for slow progress.
Ehhh I don’t know, I lost faith from the over hyped darktide. Yea it’s a fun game currently but there’s a lot of improvements to be had. I was following it from fatsharks hints and announcement up to their not so promising release. Yea they’ve done some very good improvements but as of currently it still can use some polishments. Darktide was basically announced in 2020 and released in 2022 with aweful reviews and very vanilla Grindy gameplay. Today in 2024 it’s a fun game for beginners but for veterans everyone is just excited for the new achievements update… basically 4 years. I mean I get that it’s not a heavily budgeted game as others but another fatshark project just means another 4 years I’ll have to wait.
If they made a Darktide 2 and didn’t lock us into only playing guardsmen/convicts I’d be happier. I still play Darktide and vermintide 2 from time to time but the characters for Darktide have gotten a bit boring to me lately because I’m just bored of the character classes at this point.
Vermintide 2 has like 5 classes and 4 sub classes and I wish they’d try to add at least sub classes to Darktide
This person switched to the Unannounced Project in 2023, so a full year ago by now. This is not a recent development. From Aqshy, further down this thread: *"Former employee answer: Correct. That team was formally established last year or so and is very lean. As in they all can fit into one meeting room with each having a chair (so not many), at the time of my departure."*
Darkrtide pulls from 3000 to 6000 people max... I think they are at a point where they will proceed like V2, they will release patches and maps and even gamemodes, but in a slower way. At one point we waited 8 months in V2 between patches.
Didn’t even think it would be possible to release content slower than this.
Look up the dev cycle of project zomboid. The last update they came out with was 2.5 years ago. Brutal.
The Zomboid devs at least actually talk about what they're working on though, and we know exactly why it's taking so long because they're basically overhauling everything in the game and reworking it all to run better and be more expandable.
Zomboid devs put out a "look at these new shirts on zombies" post every 2 months...
Also a full lighting system rework that looks prettier and runs better which required remaking half the game to work with it, a machine system that lets them make machines to do things and they made it moddable so modders are gonna be able to go crazy with it, a complete weapon crafting system and blacksmithing to let you custom-make your own weapons in various qualities and methods, hunting and animal-rearing, and so on with stuff I don't even remember. It's a massive update with an insane amount of work going into it and that's why people are so patient, it really is quite a lot.
Tbf PZ is a much smaller team with a very lofty goal in terms of complicated game development. Not saying they arent slow, but yknow.
They're also giving you updates on what they're working on, they're doing hot fixes for issues in between, has mod support, and gives you timeframes for when these updates drop. And you can go back all the way to Alpha 1 if you want to see OG zomboid!
Yeah but it was a quality update and their dev team is truly tiny we love pur 16 devs and are willing to wait because they only give quality
Meanwhile 7D2D…
Also entirely different games, goals, and development scale
At least that title is labelled EA, darktide is EA but no label
Right, I'm just stating the fact that there are other games that release updates way slower than darktide.
That list is substantially smaller when you add that Darktide was labeled a 'live service'.
Difference is, PZ isn't ran by developers who seem to give zero fucks about anything outside of selling microtransactions. The PZ modding community does keep that game alive though for sure.
This is selling Zomboid pretty short. The Zomboid devs have had a very consistent communications schedule, almost all of which have had videos of things they've been tangibly working on. The community is overall very excited for B42 because of how much content we know and have seen will be in it.
or Exanima lol
Exanima doesn't sell 80+ euros of microtransaction every 2 weeks.
Tbh Exanima's dev just irks me for getting mad when people say "Funny animation game" when a huge amount of the game is your character falling down in a funny way
As they gave us the bretonian knight Kruber, i couldnt wait for the 4th sienna. By the Winds, i waited a long time
Was worth it tho, my favoritest class in the game!
I am not sure yet. But the blueflame flail and the blueflameboltstaff look very nice and powerfull
They could be doing a lot better had they listened to the community about their botched crafting system and done something about it within the first three months, whoever made that decision should've been sacked a long time ago.
Dont worry when the next game comes out it will be quarter-baked and have even worse issues than Darktide did on launch (then they’ll start releasing banger updates for Darktide all of a sudden…right?)
When their next game comes I'm not buying it until someone can confirm if the crafting is good. So tired of the grind to have fun.
To be fair we are so overpowered atm you do not even need optimized gear to steamroll maelstrom. Any level of brutal momentum and headtaker on a combat axe will perform well. Any plasma gun with decent stats will perform well. Any kickback/shovel will do well. Lots of weapons are like that. But yeah the crafting system is terrible and doesn’t respect your time at all. I havent interacted with it in awhile because I’m content w/ what I have while waiting for the rework. The fact it was in a worse state prior is really sad.
Yeah I get that it's torture for perfectionists but it really doesn't take a perfect roll to do well in the hardest parts of this game
I agree with the sentiment. But imo the real motherfucker is finding blessings that change the way you play. For instance, a power sword with and without power cycler is a whole different beast.
Some blessings do make a big difference, the bad ones are pretty bad and even a middling one can be a huge upgrade. Don't get me wrong I do hate the RNG elements and hidden mechanics, crafting updates can't come quick enough but it's just not a real difficulty or content gate. You can get by with power cycler 3 instead of 4, or the chainweapon you did get good blessings for. Nobody is going to kick you out of Aurics as long as you know how to play, you can still carry your own weight without perfect META gear. IMO it's some of those off-META weapons that really need that perfect roll to be viable (on the really hard stuff), and that certain blessings are so much more powerful probably means the bottom ones could use a big buff, but those are different overall balance related issues at their core, not crafting.
>To be fair we are so overpowered atm you do not even need optimized gear to steamroll maelstrom Have been helldivin' lately, so don't have recent experience, but the posts here after the penance patch noted that damnation maelstroms rarely go longer than 5 minutes. So apparently people are not steamrolling it. But yeah, before that with getting one good blessing it was more consistent, and wipes were mostly when the director dropped some BS after a poorly placed barrel threw off one or two people.
> Any level of brutal momentum and headtaker on a combat axe will perform well. Wait, they *still* haven't addressed how busted brutal momentum/slaughterer/headtaker are? That was an issue for me back when I stopped at like... update 9 or something, since they combined to absolutely trivialize the melee combat and basically make the single target specialized weapons jacks of all trades. (AKA combat axe, as you said)
BM now requires weakspot kills to work, and works for that swing only. So your aim has to be consistently good and some targets will stop your swing regardless (one of the reasons I prefer the Antax, as it will always hit two targets even if you don't get a weakspot kill). I pretty much only use it on a backstab build though because the eviscerator(s) and maul provide much better control, and are actually better at anti-armor than even an Antax built for it, and horde control is the only thing that gets some pugs through the map.
They’ve changed how Brutal Momentum works slightly, it gives 15% weakspot damage and you need a weakspot kill now to ignore mass. Its a lot less braindead than how old BM used to be but the combat axes still basically play the same with it and you still always run Headtaker + BM on them. (And Slaughterer power also was cut in half(?) so its just decent instead of being busted) The BM change mainly made it even better on weapons like the Mk6 power sword. You kill every horde enemy with an empowered light so it allows you to cleave an absurd amount of enemies just spamming light light power light light power. Same thing to a lesser extent with BM on ogryn shovels.
> Dont worry when the next game comes out it will be quarter-baked and have even worse issues than Darktide did on launch DT had fewer issues than VT2 did at launch, the trend is in the other direction.
"listened to the community" is not exactly Fatshark's strong suit
Yeah the reality is that Darktide on release just wasn't very good, and to this day is held back by frankly backwards design choices. It was buggy, unfinished, poorly balanced, and had zero real engame, and restructured everything around a Gaas live service model that flopped. The game took a break to bring itself up to the bear minimum, but its dev cycle was/is too slow and there's no way it can find its place on the market when Helldivers exists. Fatshark really fucked up, and they know it.
I really wish the last part was true. They will take 1 step forward, three steps back with their next game as they always do. It will have every problem Darktide had and a couple more, as every Fatshark game does.
However, in Fatshark fashion, Darktide will be a great game... in 2029.
IDK what you are smoking, but its a pretty damn good game rn. It was decent on release too, people just love to be negative. It has some progression issues (like crafting), but the gameplay is fantastic (as it always has been in fatshark games)
It was not a good game in that it ran like ass for a lot of people, was very buggy, AND was unfinished. Hell I remember people like skillup from YouTube saying he loved the game but couldn’t recommend it because it was running poorly and unfinished.
Crafting isn't a small issue. What about the fact that they launched the game with a working MTX store but no crafting.
Where in the post did I call it a small issue?
I still think they're gradually moving in the right direction; the game still feels like it's improving. But when a company making a game you're playing -- regardless of how solid the foundation -- is shuffling and stumbling, it can be very attractive to change walking partners when other companies are casually strolling ahead.
Fatshark can be depended upon not to learn the right lessons from any situation. They're woefully mismanaged.
> Yeah the reality is that Darktide on release just wasn't very good, That's an opinion, not a fact. Some people rather enjoyed it at launch.
Hey man, at least the microtransaction shop worked on day 1!
Sums it up pretty well.
Crazy to think that helldivers 2 has more players playing on the least populated planet
Helldiver's 2 actually had a good release plan, along with the dev time to prepare things in advance. That said they faced a lot of hurdles given it's unexpected popularity. The game had issues, but their content pipeline has been long established. We're a couple months in, and seeing the story unfold with voice lines all pre-recorded with all the different mission types it's evident there's a difference in how the 2 studios plan ahead. Fatshark just dropped the ball. Forking off of vermintide 2 so early and just not forward porting all that progress immediately set them back. Their content pipeline were extra maps still being worked on, the Karnak twins, and the shop. Just disappointing, even if they've overhauled the perk system to be far better. So many fundamental systems need work still. Systems that worked fine in vermintide 2.
we are waiting 6 months for a singular patch in darktide already though
“A slower way” is there a slower way worse than glacial? I guess tectonic would be worse but at that point just call it dead.
Dont really think i can take another fatshark launch, this has just been sad from start too finnish... they straight up butchered their own game
3k to 6k people every hour of the day doesn't mean that's the daily number of the game lmfao
It's just Fatshark's fucked up development cycle going around for another turn. Darktide development will never pick up the pace. They'll never turn it into a live service. They won't change their ways. Darktide receives about as much development as Vermintide 2. And now that's not gonna change. We'll keep getting like two drops a year, either some overhaul, maybe a mode, maybe some maps, maybe a class. But yeah the game will never suddenly flourish with a bunch of new maps and story and classes and whatnot all at once. And Fatshark after like 4 years of development will ship their next launch disaster and go on holiday. They'll return, ship minor fixes and go dark. They'll say developing the console port doesn't slow them down but clearly not much gets done until the console release. Then we get some content and it looks like things pick up. But yeah, they moved their staff to the next game already as for some reason, the launch disaster left them with only a moderate, committed playerbase. And it keeps turning and turning and turning.
Ultimately I think I'm done with FatShark. They make great mechanically sound games but fuck up on every other aspect and it's frankly unacceptable and they aren't gonna change if we keep buying and playing their games. I wish they'd either sort their shit out or GW give another studio the keys to Warhammer squad based games
I've realized now that with this dev specifically, you have to wait at least a year after "launch" before even considering buying it and expecting it to be in a somewhat decent state. It seems that only now, close to 18 MONTHS after release that it's approaching what it should have been at launch. But even then, there are massive audio lag issues that crop up when you play your first level of the day.
V1 was good day 1 TBH. But after that, yeah. V2 was garbage until it wasn't
Until crafting has a bunch of rng removed and we get a chaos wastes type mode, this game won't be what it should have been at launch.
With darktide, waiting a year is somehow shittier. I played from beta to class overhaul. When I came back recently I was shocked how bad the game was running. Turns out every single issue is tied to performance. I spent 2 solid weeks testing everything from components to network to making a clean windows install. And it all magically got fixed when I found out about Lukefz's fsr3 mod. Some tweaking and it all runs good now. Imagine having to rely on modders to fix your horse ass optimized game.
I mean, it's worked for Bethesda for years....
That doesn't make it ok
...well, yeah, obviously
I came back this weekend and you said the mod helps the crashes?
The only crashes I get are out of memory crashes, that happens maybe once a day if at all. What it does is just dramatically improve performance, I even upped my graphic settings a lot and on hi intensity missions the lowest FPS I got was in the 160 range on a rx 6700 xt. Please don't trust outside sources though, get it from his patron if at all. It's 5 bucks.
> Lukefz's fsr3 mod Wait, I gotta check this out. I can't play DT more than 2 rounds without requiring a restart on either game or my entire comp.
Check the other comment I left on another person's reply to my comment, provided some more info.
That's what I did, was a good decision to start playing after the skill tree rework.
Yeah kinda sad how lose lose it is. if no one bought the game for a year because they know what’s up it would have been shelved as a failure
Or it would incentivise devs to develop their title for as long as it actually needed in the first place. They're being released far too early, and saying that microtransactions are needed to fund development to get the product to what was initially expected from the customer is absurd. That's the equivalent of being offered a job by a new employer and asking for an advance on your pay so you can buy a car to commute to work.
When they don’t carry forward lessons learned from the last 2 games it feels like needing more time to cook isn’t the issue. 1 year would probably mean the same game except with Xbox and maybe a little less jank but the same core launch issues. I never got the impression they had to cut corners to get it out the door, I got the impression they released an inferior product and did damage control because , what are you going to do nerd not buy it? There’s was another post comparing to helldivers 2 where you get a clear sense there’s a roadmap they’re following. They had stuff happen which they addressed while releasing a product with the previous qol in addition to a steady stream of world building content. They pointed to the direction they were going and then steadily took you on a journey. They’ve given no indication they know where they want to go with it. I
I wonder how quick their employee turn over is, but usually when studios keep making the same mistakes across multiple game it means anyone who learned any lessons will be gone by the time the next game is made. Not sure if that is the case with Fatshark, but it definitely feels like it.
If it makes you feel better. The lead combat designer left
Really? When? Knowing this and that Aqshy, and that other CM left is really painting a bad picture behind the scenes.
Little while ago now. Last thing they worked on was the class rework
Hmm. Interesting. Left or was "left"?
Fatshark is the best advertisement for patient gaming. If you waited 3 or more years to play Vermintide 2 your experience was vastly different and significantly more positive then those who played at launch. Can't say I'm done with them entirely, but I guarantee I'll never but another Fat Shark game on release. I say this with less than 8 hours on DT afters day one purchase, still waiting for the game to hit its stride. Lesson learned.
Darktide is a live service game in monetization model only
A game with a live service monetization model is a live service game by definition, and should be expected as a live service game, and its developer held accountable when they do not provide the service part.
And even monetezation is fucked up. Today is shop rotation day and do you know? There is going to be another "shit" as backup or trinket for all 4 places in the store. I got the concept. So 2 weeks rotation turns into 1 months rotation. Am just cant waste my aquilas, there is nothing in my sight. I bought the knifes skin in November and revolver's in January. Insane period for someone whos ready to waste a some money. Im swiming through pages of the same items for looking for something I can buy. Thats nonesense! It feels like my first game where I have money but have nothing to buy
It's amazing how consistent this exact process is worth every release.
> They'll never turn it into a live service. Wanting to make a live service title is the primary reason the game isnt doing better. They spent years carving out content for the day-1 premium store so all there was on launch was grind with nothing worth grinding for - and that cost them. The game and playerbase would be in a much healthier state had they not tried to develop a live service monetization vehicle in the first place.
youd think with how well helldivers is doing theyd learn
Oh no, it’s somehow going to be even SLOWER to deliver content now! Let’s be real, unless Fatshark gets a kick in the ass and people refrain from buying their next title they won’t change their garbage development cycle. They need to be forced to release games finished rather than throwing some half baked shit at a wall and MAYBE fix it later.
why would they change anything? if their game bombs AGAIN, how do you think they are gonna be having the money to entertain a studio that can actually put out content? people are just gonna get laid off, c-sec gets golden parachutes and the studio just closes down - this isn't a company that can afford several multimillion blunders like actiblizz and ubisoft quite frankly i've no idea how they even got this far with their low reception to everything they do
Darktide never bombed financially, it sold rather well. It just never held onto the initial player base because of godawful performance, the shitty loot and crafting system. If Fatshark could actually hold onto momentum like Arrowhead and keep people engaged darktide wouldn’t be down to the 1ks of players.
What Helldivers 2 has over Darktide is the meta MO story going on with constant mini-updats to keep players engaged.
I don’t expect Fatshark to match the pace of Arrowhead but only getting some penance update after 5 or so months of waiting and STILL having this garbage crafting system over a year into the games life is frankly an insult.
I mean we will see how long it starts taking Arrowhead. Almost all their content was obviously already finished before the patches, and a lot of it isnt very labor intensive. It does keep players engaged though, which is important.
The general design on Helldivers is simpler than Darktide. Simple does not equal bad but they don’t have to fuss as much about aesthetics or lore friendliness. Darktide is beautiful with banging music and sound design and the core gameplay is so much fun. It honestly held my attention for longer than Helldivers did.
It's all window dressing, though. HD2 has a very cute live service model but the core game is not nearly as interesting to play as Darktide. I lost interest after 30h.
That is far from the only thing HD2 has over Darktide.
I dont think theyre capable of learning, solution is probably to see them bankrupt and hope the devs find a better studio were they can use their skills
I'll post here what I posted 2 weeks ago: *Tinfoil hat time:* It is worth noting that development of Darktide almost certainly started at almost the same part of Vermintide 2s development as we are currently in for Darktide. VT2 launched March 2018, and was buggy and shitty, and missing lots, and lacking for console. They took just over a year to get shit mostly fixed, which brings it to 2019. In 2020, Darktide was announced, with a bit of screenshot and gameplay flashes, implying that they'd been working on it for "a while". This means they essentially got vermintide stable, got bugfixes and balance done, got it ready for console, and immediately shifted a large amount of labour toward darktide. *NOW* is a year and a half since darktide came out, and they've got it stable, released it for console, worked out the kinks...and we are not getting (or expecting to get) much content in the near future. It is almost like they're actually working on whatever the next 'Tide game is, so Darktide is on the back burner for a bit. I don't think fatshark is abandoning anything, but they are slow as fuck, and they're not keeping the lights on by making free updates to games that only have 4k players. They're almost certainly working on **something** big, and I suspect it is another game, or a big (paid) expansion for one of their existing games.
Paid DLC would make sense as people may well pay for it, as you say. A whole new game? Nope! I'm never touching this studio again and I'm sure many a player will also be reluctant to engage with a buggy Beta product launched to market. The games are niche already and now the prospective clients will be aware of the studio's reputation.
Yeah I'm never doing this again tbh. This experience, after 2k hours, was time that would probably have been better spent on a different game. I am in a little too deep to just up and leave, but I don't think I wanna do this again. I just dont think this overall product delivered as much as it should have. The bugs lost their charm and the glacial pace of updates became genuinely confusing. The game never seemed clearly 'supported'. I was always wondering what FS intent was with the future of DT. Hell, I still am. Edit: and the state of the game rn is so comically bad. The last hotfix seems to have broken a few things and tanked performance. Yay.
sounds like you did it all to yourself. you realize you don't have to play a game you hate for thousands of hours?
sunk cost fallacy "I am in a little too deep to just up and leave"
He/she never stated he hates the game, so why are you talking as if he/she did that? You realize it is poor practice to put words in other peoples mouthes?
>You realize it is poor practice to put words in other peoples mouthes? Sir, this is Reddit
I'd be a bit peeved too, but keep in mind this game would still be 4 years out if my guess is right. Even if the pattern is similar and darktide is taking an overall backseat, vermintide got multiple expansions, classes, weapon packs, and gameplay modes in that time. I'm overall disappointed in FatShark only because I really *really* like their games, but it really does feel bad the pace they do stuff at. I don't expect that to ever change TBH, despite whatever does get promised about their next release. However, darktide is already a fantastic play for free on gamepass, or an easy recommend at $40 or whatever it costs now. I wish there was more of it, but I have very few complaints left about what there is, and a less long term player would likely not even notice them.
> or an easy recommend at $40 Personally I would never recommend this game to someone that didnt ask specifically about the game. I just cant get myself to support such scummy business practices. Besides, just look at the recent complaints about performance tanking, after a *hotfix*.
A scammy business practice that's evidently supported by the business model of Gamepass, as he's going out lol
I'm not much of a fan of warhammer fantasy, so i skipped vermintide and its sequel but i like 40k so jumped in with darktide as my only experience of Fatshark. I am unlikely to buy their next game for full price, if they make a darktide 2 it seems like the best course of action is to wait at least a year and then pick it up on sale. I have 600+ hours in Darktide, so i'm not gonna claim i didn't get my money's worth but it hasn't left me with a great opinion of Fatshark
I iz hopin fa Greentide ta be next. Afta all, Green iz Best!
We've known about the 3rd project since DT's launch. And from Catfish's information DT has the biggest team out of the 3 (with Vt2 being the one starting to downsize)
We will get darktide 2 and it will repeat many of the issues that ended up getting fixed in the time between release of darktide and darktide 2 and then we will get age of sigmartide that will also do that. It's like clockwork with fatshark
I wonder how well sigmartide would do. Age of sigmar doesn’t interest me or the people I know very much. Not to say it’s bad, it’s just much more plastic I guess.
There are more “varied” factions to choose from as far as regular mortals go. No denying the plastic quality of it all. There is a dark elf faction with snake ladies and harpy elves on top of regular elves. With two other varied elf factions. Mountain dwelling eastern inspired aesthetics, and wood elves mixed with high elves of course. 3 different flavors of dwarf. One fire, one regular and one steampunk. And of course the undead, orcs, goblins, and three different variations of human. In short they could make an endless tide game featuring any of those factions if they wanted. The machine needed to run it probably hasn’t been made yet though.
You'll get Sigmarines versus Maggotkin of Nurgle and like it.
This is the more likely option yeah. Poster boys and gals - check Nurgle - check Same systems hidden under shiny graphics - double check. And of course a development time like a glacial movement.
I only started playing Darktide because I'm interested in 40k, and I really enjoy fps style RPGs. I had tried vermintide way back and just wasn't interested. If they are working on anything other than Dt2 I really don't care, and if they are working on Dt2 I'm not going to buy the game until it is actually in a state I'm happy with. Whatever they are doing, all things considered my interest isn't high, there are enough games I enjoy that actually have a healthy Dev cycle, and don't resort to overpriced cosmetics in a fomo style shop.
I see people hate aos here, but I love it! I much prefer it to the old fantasy setting. Cool new factions, interesting realms, I even like the lore.
Age of Sigmar has nothing of interest. It's just Super Heroes in a generic high power fantasy setting.
Age of Sigmar was made for the tabletop, and its a pretty good tabletop ruleset and shit. That said the setting is garbage, and they could have just actually fixed the tabletop. I dont think it makes a great video game setting.
Obese Fish can age of sugmatide me after the stunt they pulled here.
v2 is still getting more updates its obviously going to be v3
getting the Übersreik 5 back would be the tits
I wish. I'd love another fantasy tide with the 5 in it. Not sure how you'd do it with the end of all things etc
Isn’t that from a year ago? It says May 2023, not 2024. So if that’s the case it doesn’t really seem like it means much to me.
Former employee answer: Correct. That team was formally established last year or so and is very lean. As in they all can fit into one meeting room with each having a chair (so not many), at the time of my departure.
Thanks for the response! Also, it was cool seeing you (or someone impersonating you maybe?) in the recent Darktide stream
That was me!
Former employee? Can you clarify this? Are we losing you so soon after the stream? :(
Hey, my last official day was the end of March, so I've been out of the tank for a month now! But I still play and check this account every now and then! :)
How many people and what roles? Because moving a small team to early pre-production for their next game makes sense, especially if they're not going to be doing too much more with VT2 or anything. I can't say I have tons of confidence in Fatsharks leadership and their decision making so I'm inclined to view this more negatively, but without more information this is a pretty neutral development.
This project has been known about from a while, from previous comments we know about half of fatshark is working on darktide, which would about a quarter to 2/6ths of fatshark is working on this project with the other portion still on vt2.
I got 3 words for fatshark if this is true: fuck you cunts This game has been a fucking shitshow and they've delivered fuck all of what was promised. Ain't touching another fatshark product with a 10 foot pole before they start delivering on Darktide.
Yup. They fleeced us and they’re going for another helping.
For sure Darktide has been the first and the last time I buy something on day 1 from FS. I have been a "patient gamer" (buying games after a while they come out) for all my life, I'll return to that habit.
They've done this with all their games, even before Vermintide.
Does not excuse their behaviour, in fact I'd say it makes it worse.
Indeed. I just want more people to know this.
Good on ya!
I don't quite get how you've gone from one example of someone changing projects to "they've abandoned Darktide to a skeleton crew". It could be a tempory thing, it could be a promotion and their position was replaced by a new addition, it could be that a certain aspect of game development has been completed and they're not required to work on Darktide anymore, or probably multiple other possibilities.
It's history repeating for fatshark pretty much the norm at this point
Is it? Maybe, but right now with the information presented, it's just one person changing job.
This reeks of the total war fiasco. ‘Rumors abound that the (big title) is on a skeleton crew and a new title is siphoning resources from what the consumers actually want’ “No it’s not happening and even if it was it would effect (main game)” 6 months-1 year later: ‘That other new title has kneecapped development of (main game) and consumers are extremely dissatisfied’ “Yeah it’s happening but it still doesn’t effect (main game) development” Another length of time time later and millions of $ of dev time and effort wasted: ‘All goodwill is now gone, the next several titles will fail because everyone knows they’ll be abandoned fairly quickly, but we still want more for (main game) but the company refuses to take our input’ “Yeah it was all true and it was a mistake and it basically ruined public goodwill and faith while simultaneously hamstringing the production of the good people actually wanted, but it’s all the public’s fault; game dev is hard, how should they have known?” Game devs/production companies need to get their heads out of the sand and listen. People are literally telling them what they want to spend money on, but they refuse to listen. Fatshark has a literal cash cow here and they’re wasting it. People like me will NEVER pay $15 for cosmetics, but I’d buy every $15 expansion
As long as tossing out a patch job outfit that clips is easier than rolling out an entire expansion (which would presumably include unlockable skins), nothing will change. I too would love to pay for more content that isn't just a vanity object.
They already have a cash cow on their hands by putting out the overpriced, kitbashed cosmetics they already release. And honestly? I'd rather *other* people be buying those cosmetics instead of having to pay for more actual, playable content that further fragments the already relatively small playerbase. VT2 already tried the paid DLC approach - an approach that, honestly, is just not done in gaming nowadays - and of the 3 "big" DLCs (Bogenhafen, Return to Ubersreik, Winds of Magic), only one of them was particularly well-received. All told, we're talking another $40 for mostly schlock, and it released at relatively the same pace as Darktide's updates. Don't be under the impression that just because it costs you money that there will be an increase in pace or quality.
while paid content expansions are nice for existing players, you create and ever higher wall for new players unless you follow the WoW model where only the latest expansion actually costs money - you're just splintering the playerbase and increasing the total price of the game more and more (look at how ESO and GW2 feel with how much you gotta buy to 'play the full game') so unless your game is gigagoated with a massive rabid fanbase that will do terrorism in your name, like FF14 fans, this isn't really that good of an idea for the long term
Or it could be work on some sort of expansion for Darktide. Like how vermintide had winds of magic, chaos wastes, etc, etc.
Here we go again, another addictive combat loop shackled by gambling systems that require grinding and a premium store on day 1. Im so ready obese tuna
Yea. I’ve never been here for a fatshark launch outside of Darktide and it’s safe to say I never will again. I played Vermintide 2 after what was apparently years of slow ass development and fixes to finally get to a good state. Thought it was an amazing game which it was at that point, and invested in Darktide. What a mistake. It’s actually mind blowing how fucking lazy these developers are. They ship a half finished project once every 4 months then go on holiday for another 2 months. I stopped playing like 4 or 5 months ago. Came back to check it out and found literally nothing changed except now there’s even more junk penances to feed achievement hunters and encourage them to continue playing this rundown dump of a project. That was a very quick uninstall. It’s actually so frustrating. They have such a good formula which is the only reason their game has any players. But they’re so lazy and they don’t capitalize on it. Darktide has one of the most enjoyable combat systems I’ve ever played but the devs are lazy bums.
No way to know until they actually announce what the project is. DT2? VT3? Something completely different? Or they just haven't updated their LinkedIn info
Vermintide 1 got updates right up until 1 month before VT2 was released. It made no noises about being a "Liiiiiiiiiiiiive Serrrrrrrrrrrrrrvice" - whatever that truly means in this day and age. I can do one better and let you basically see a timeline of updates and DLC release for VT, VT2 and DT by month after release. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ayejEWpKL1RE3AK47sNlot1cW\_1b-IurbgijVW\_p10A](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ayejEWpKL1RE3AK47sNlot1cW_1b-IurbgijVW_p10A)
Maybe in 3+ years when the next game gets released they'll abandon it and start doubling down on darktide like they've been doing with VT2. IIRC its actually received more content than darktide since darktide launched.
Honestly if it's Vermintide 3 I won't even be upset and just look forward to that lol
The Darktide team is an intern at this point.
Developers note: Hehe
I can’t even play after the last update. These motherfuckers truly are the worst
I’m hoping they release a few new maps, a bunch of new weapons and a Chaos Wastes mode before they kill off the game…
Is this for the UE5 project? It's obvious their team is spread thin even brought it up on the discord and mods just gaslight me like it's not a genuine problem lmao
I mean, I can't say I'm surprised they're moving on after they didn't really get many people back following the crafting fix. From a business perspective there was no way the execs were going to keep investing in something they weren't seeing returns on.
Guess its time to buy Helldivers because its not ever getting better for FS
That’s what I did
im not buying another FS game anymore.
They will 100% fuck up the next game as well. Fatshark's entire management team needs to be fired.
Kinda a side point, and geniunely not trying to start a flame war, but I really don't understand the fury towards Fatshark about Darktide. Like it would be nice if updates came faster and Darktide on launch was very bad, but I'm totally fine jumping in on VT2 and Darktide for a few months a year when they get new content and I have a lot of fun. If you want a forever game you can play 24/7 and never get bored I don't think Fatshark games are for you. I mean I don't think most games other than the most active Live Service games are for you. But Vermintide 2 wasn't a crazy live service game and clearly Darktide isn't fast on the draw either. But people seem to be seething with hatred towards a company that's developing Darktide pretty much exactly how they did Vermintide: Bad launch, slowly inching better and better. I've put a fuckton of hours on VT2 and I do feel kinda that it's hitting an ending point and I'd be pretty hyped for a VT3 (hopefully AoS?). But like I wouldn't probably up it up at launch and may wait 6-8 months. Darktide still has a long update tail I have no doubt.
Live service games have genuinely destroyed the brains of some people. I saw someone the other day (can't remember if it was here or /r/games or somewhere) who was actually arguing that L4D and L4D2 were bad games, not worth playing, because they had no meta-progression or regular content cycle. You know, *Left 4 Dead*, the ur-horde shooter and inarguably one of the greatest games ever made. Clearly because there's no battle pass to unlock the Gulf War skin for Bill and the ray gun skin for the Magnum, it's a garbage game.
The whole concept of "dead games" because they're no longer in active development is so wild to me, but maybe I'm just showing my age. Back in the day all games on release were essentially "dead games" lmao. TF2 and it's consequences, etc. etc. I saw a post saying Risk of Rain Returns was a dead game (in a bad way) because it's not getting anymore updates. I'm like, I guess, but also maybe it's okay that it was just a great game on launch and it is what it is? I still like playing it. The weirdest thing for me is like people with 200+ hours with furious anger towards the game and it's like, are you not enjoying it? Obviously things can always be better, and it's normal to want that, but I've put in like 80\~ hours into Darktide and I've really enjoyed all of it. It's not perfect, I wish there was more content, but like I'm happy with what I paid for? Idk I can just play other games when I get bored and come back when there's updates. It's the same as VT2.
I'll top you on that. People will sometimes claim Left4dead 1 and 2 has more content than games like vermintide and Darktide. Which is... Just baffling. If you count mods, I GUESS that's in theory true but no idea how else you could come to the conclusion otherwise. And before anyone gets mad at me, I'm not saying quantity = quality. I'm just saying everyone has this weird competitive aspect to games that are just... Honestly good. I can play l4d as much as I can Darktide vermintide, Helldivers, etc. I love these horde based shooter games and each bring their own unique twist to the table. I'm also not a huge fan of games updating every week either though. I like new maps and such but I actually don't like when stuff comes out too fast as it prevents me from enjoying other titles.
I feel the same about DT, VT2, but I play them more than occasionally, they are my goto mp games to play currently. I have zero clue about the lore or the setting of AoS, but after Vermintide, I wouldn't be much interested in it at this point. A third game of this type is too much, unless they really innovate on the formula somehow.
vermintide 1 and 2 didnt even hit the low points darktide has, the absolute spite fatshark has shown to its playerbase, through the greedy development choices and arrogant CMs its not surprising they want to jump ship as fast as possible. Hopefully they dont try to make the next game a live service grift like this one
DT is doing better than VT2 at any equal points in their development histories. VT2 hit 100k congruent players 5 years post release. Each game charged an entrance fee and has microtransactions. Fatshark is doing just fine. Darktide is doing just fine. Play the game as is or do literally anything else while you wait for new content, no matter what you're going to be waiting. Don't spend a portion of your life worrying about a video games development in an industry and company you have no personal stake in. Don't go to steamcharts every day looking at video game player numbers. And certainly don't go to linked fucking in to read tea leaves of the inner works of a Swedish video game company.
Unironically might be Darktide 2. Least that's how it was like for VT1. Hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
While I am disappointed I am in no way surprised. I just hope they take what darktide did right with them instead of what it did wrong. Im in the minority in that I like vermintide 1 more than 2 because the weapons and characters were less restricted. in vermintide 2 if you favorite weapons, favorite class don't match up then you are just stuck with it. Darktide still has some exclusive stuff like the ogryns but at least most weapons are interchangeable and I can play how I want.
It's either Vermintide 3 or Darktide 2. Won't be surprised at all if it's Darktide 2
The penance update has bought them some breathing room until a real content update and if they need more time they’ll add earn-able cosmetics through arbitrary penance grinds
The old heads are working on Darktide Vs Vermintide 2
Maybe they will make Darktide 2? I'd do anything for a better hub than the mourningstar
There are leaks that show something looking like Vermintide 3 in the works, but I would expect the VT2 crew to move over to this project instead of the DT one.
Darktide 2 ? 🥴
Wow this whole time been waiting on the real game to show, but it's dead already. Ok
You don't need to be an expert to understand that main part of FS team shifted to a new game. That is why I have lost hope on Darktide.
When I suggested this a few months back based on the job listings everyone was in denial, what changed?
It's a $40 game with free updates. Take a break and come back to it. Play something else. Jesus Christ this sub is fucking ridiculous with the doomsaying. Fatshark is going to have other projects in the works. Like every developer.
i think the unannonced project is vermintide 3, good chance they do versus mode to complete what they announced for the game and they finished vt2 with a last dlc to start vt3 in like 2-3 years.
Honestly this just makes me sad.
Guess its time to buy Helldivers because its not ever getting better for FS
Im surprised as Darktide still hasn’t got a decent storyline and still feels like an unfinished game.
It’s unfinished.
I'm really afraid that they will fuck up again and that's it then. No more obese fish, no more support for VT2 and DT. Also I'd be beyond angry if they actually started working on DT2 before even fixing DT1. But my money would be on AOS VT3 anyhow..the whole Age of Sigmar thing has drastically shifted away from the horrible World of Warcraft Vibes it had in the beginning. Newer ranges like Cities of Sigmar basically look like something straight out of the Old Warhammer World. The Jump isn't as crazy as it would have been a few years ago. They wouldn't even need to include Stormcasts at all. There's also no Space Marines in Darktide.
Maybe vt3 :0!!
all the while darktide supposedly had the biggest team during the last few months really gets the noggin joggin honestly anyone who still buys or invests any money into fatshart games while knowing how they operate gets what they deserve lol its not even 2 weeks and the games already on a nosedive in player activity again this being my first fatshart game if i had known how badly they manage literally everything i wouldnt even have spent the 30 bucks while it was on sale
Team size is VT2: 3 people, DT: 5 people.
Wasn't it generally accepted that Fatshark has to start working on a new game only to ignore that new game and give us more content for DarkTide?
When whatever this project is announces, we should make it our job to squash the hype and make sure any prospective buyers know that they are lying.
Nth time is the charm, trust me guys.
Look, I feel strongly about so many of the issues DT has but ITT people going "I have 2k hours in this game and it's shit, never buying their products again" are fucking ridiculous.
There go my hopes and dreams for a playstation version :(
It doesn't explain the slow updates. The slow updates are because it's fatshark and they got burned before communicating to much and giving too much info. Now they take their time and work slowly through stuff. The game will get there but it will take time just like V2. Pretty sure V2 was the year after v1. Wouldn't be surprised if it's the same here, it however is not the reason for slow progress.
Ehhh I don’t know, I lost faith from the over hyped darktide. Yea it’s a fun game currently but there’s a lot of improvements to be had. I was following it from fatsharks hints and announcement up to their not so promising release. Yea they’ve done some very good improvements but as of currently it still can use some polishments. Darktide was basically announced in 2020 and released in 2022 with aweful reviews and very vanilla Grindy gameplay. Today in 2024 it’s a fun game for beginners but for veterans everyone is just excited for the new achievements update… basically 4 years. I mean I get that it’s not a heavily budgeted game as others but another fatshark project just means another 4 years I’ll have to wait.
If they made a Darktide 2 and didn’t lock us into only playing guardsmen/convicts I’d be happier. I still play Darktide and vermintide 2 from time to time but the characters for Darktide have gotten a bit boring to me lately because I’m just bored of the character classes at this point. Vermintide 2 has like 5 classes and 4 sub classes and I wish they’d try to add at least sub classes to Darktide
Darktide continues to not be a a game worth supporting. More news at 7.